I need, a lot, of help.

[xobxdoc]

This guy asked for "a lot of help". Right now his money issues are secondary. His wife faces a battle with cancer and she doesn't need to be dealing with a drunk. She has the disease, not him! Since 1985 I have been on the receiving end of an alcoholics abuse and it continues because I have to explain somehow to my 9 year son why his mother only comes by to see him every few months.
I agree with Papa Bear. I have no sympathy for alcoholics. And they can use some "sanctimonious pontification".
Clean yourself up and help your family.

[PapaBear765]

My grandfather and his sons (my uncles) were alcoholics.  An immediate family member has had her license suspended more than once for DUI.  All of us have 1st or 2nd hand experience with alcohol abuse.  So there's no need to state it.  We're all just as qualified as the other to speak our thoughts on the subject.

Alcoholism is like a crack addiction: everyone knows better, but some choose to head the warning while others don't.  I don't feel sorry for the ones who don't...including the ones in my family.

[fueldryer]

I think the lad's been given sufficient advice, and tough love, to navigate his way to success.  Now, if the discussion takes a turn towards some tangent, then let it be.  You moderators have a nasty problem of trying to fence in a discussion when it's obvious that more than a couple of people are interested in the tangent.

I have no sympathy for alcoholics.  For decades now society has been educated on the side affects of too much alcohol.  And people continue to ignore the warnings.  Therefore, it's not a disease (or any other cop out), it's a choice.  A choice to do what you're told is unwise.

No one needs to take it easy on this guy.  That might have been the problem with his life until now: no one telling him like it is.  No one telling him flat out he's in the wrong, that he's f.ing up his life.  Maybe all of us being so blunt about this issue will wake him up.  Just a thought.

Were your parents married?

[JustinHEMI]

You moderators have a nasty problem of trying to fence in a discussion when it's obvious that more than a couple of people are interested in the tangent.

I am not a moderator.

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to opt out of the discussion because.... well because I like and respect too many people here to have this debate with them. I am afraid that it would end with "bad blood" and for me, the friendships I have made here are more important to me than allowing my strong feelings about this subject get out of control. I took a similar pacifist approach in the Navy, and it worked out. I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.

Have your discussion/debate, but I must bow out. Just don't let it get out of control.

Justin

[PapaBear765]

Were your parents married?

I'm neither a chief nor an officer, therefore my closet is empty of skeletons.

[fueldryer]

I am not a moderator.

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to opt out of the discussion because.... well because I like and respect too many people here to have this debate with them. I am afraid that it would end with "bad blood" and for me, the friendships I have made here are more important to me than allowing my strong feelings about this subject get out of control. I took a similar pacifist approach in the Navy, and it worked out. I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.

Have your discussion/debate, but I must bow out. Just don't let it get out of control.

Justin

So, you're saying that if someone drinks,weather socially or out of control drunk,then they/you cannot be friends?Bummer....

[JustinHEMI]

So, you're saying that if someone drinks,weather socially or out of control drunk,then they/you cannot be friends?Bummer....

Don't start. I said exactly what I meant. I don't associate with drunk drivers. Period. No more, no less.

Justin

[fueldryer]

Don't start. I said exactly what I meant. I don't associate with drunk drivers. Period. No more, no less.

Justin

I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.   Your words, not mine...

[JustinHEMI]

I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.   Your words, not mine...

Yes and no where did I say I couldn't be friends with people that socially drink. I chose not to go out and get hammered every night. I didn't care if others did. But if they then drove, you bet I would have.

I am done with this. I am not going to be dragged into a fight about the evil that is drunk drivers.

Justin

[fueldryer]

would negate the possibility of me being their friends

[JustinHEMI]

would negate the possibility of me being their friends

Way to take it out of context. You know damn well I am talking about drinking and driving. Read the whole thing.

Justin

[nuketarded]

I had an admin discharge ("hardship").  Owed 18k.  Paid it back. The bottom line is that it is not your money.  You were paid for something you didn't do.  You knew that when you signed the contract.  Work with DFAS, stretch it out to 6 years.  The rate they charge is really forgiving.  Put off buying a new car and pay off the debt.  You'll feel better.  If there weren't consequences to mistakes then they wouldn't be mistakes.  Getting 20k for not doing something is enabling irresponsibility. There are things you could have done with the money that would have insured you against this risk (partial investment, for instance).  You didn't ,and now you have to do some good old fashioned hard work. That's it.

[fueldryer]

Way to take it out of context. You know damn well I am talking about drinking and driving. Read the whole thing.

Justin

Something of which YOU never ever ever did in your entire life?

[fueldryer]

I had an admin discharge ("hardship").  Owed 18k.  Paid it back. The bottom line is that it is not your money.  You were paid for something you didn't do.  You knew that when you signed the contract.  Work with DFAS, stretch it out to 6 years.  The rate they charge is really forgiving.  Put off buying a new car and pay off the debt.  You'll feel better.  If there weren't consequences to mistakes then they wouldn't be mistakes.  Getting 20k for not doing something is enabling irresponsibility. There are things you could have done with the money that would have insured you against this risk (partial investment, for instance).  You didn't ,and now you have to do some good old fashioned hard work. That's it.

Well said!

[JustinHEMI]

Something of which YOU never ever ever did in your entire life?

What drinking and driver? No I NEVER drank and drove in my entire life.

Justin

[rlbinc]

$500 a month is all you need.
My guess is - that if you deliver pizzas at night - after that water treatment job, you can make that.
For extra tips - use the words "Better than I deserve!" when some one asks how you are doing.
Ask Dave Ramsey.

[talitore]

You're right, I could deliver pies at night. All the while missing everything that is important.

[NJ]

O.K. You guys ENOUGH! 
Talitore, the Dave Ramsey way is a good mentor to have.  He tells it like it is but helps you get on. He has a radio program daily and a TV talk show. Go to his web page and check him out.  "Live today like nobody else so you can live like no one else later". Think of positive things you have going for you and
positiveness = positiveness.

[wlrun3]

   ...you don't have a problem...

   ...you have a life...

   ...do what you've always done...

   ...adapt, improvise, overcome...

[Gamecock]

You're right, I could deliver pies at night. All the while missing everything that is important.

People are offering you ideas....you asked for 'em.

If you don't like the thought of working a second job......

You might consider lowering your standard of living....move into a smaller house/apartment that costs less.

If you drive vehicles that aren't paid off, consider selling them outright and getting a used car that you can pay cash for.

There are things that you can do to reduce your monthly expenditures...you might not want to do them, but there are options.

And, if your still drinking......you can probably pay your $500/month tab by getting sober.

[Marssim]

You're right, I could deliver pies at night. All the while missing everything that is important.

welcome to the club, it's called "manning up",...

right now the government is out the money it paid you for services never rendered, those services are paid for with tax dollars, OUR tax dollars!!!!!

granted it's an awful tiny amount of the tax dollars we ALL pay, but there is a principal to this thing,...

yeah, you might miss out on some happy events and special cooings by your little one, but there's plenty of active dutry USN on these boards who are missing the same damn thing and more as I type these words,...

there are plenty of road warriors reading these boards right now because they're not at home with their loved ones enjoying dinner, they're in Motel Somewhere 800 miles from home earning a paycheck to provide a decent living for those same loved ones and the bills gotta get paid,...

hell nowadays they even send house people from New Hampshire to Fla to augment outages and the such, I guess if they don't like it they could always just quit that "cushy" house job,...

if you came here for advice to help you in your struggle you've already been given plenty of consructive ideas,...

you're wife's wicked sick and your baby is little, been there, done that,...

but we all got problems brother, and we all have to man up, suck it up, and deal with it, and yeah, that means sometimes we miss out on things we would rather not, get over it,...

that's the best helpful advice I got left,...

btw, my first couple of years out of the USN, I delivered pies at night, after my day job,...

[talitore]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

[Marssim]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

okay, I'm done, good luck,....

[nuketarded]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

It sounds like you already know what you're going to do.  You were looking for a way out rather than a way through.  So, on the path that you are about to go down, you should know that you cannot bankrupt debts owed the government (you can see who wrote the bk law).  They will come and get it one way or another, even if it takes 20 years, which it sounds like it may.  You will simply not receive a tax refund in the future and I believe there is the potential for wage garnishment.  Doesn't sound like you need a credit score anyway.  

[NukeLDO]

Justin--I admire your ability not to engage in controversy, and I agree with everything you've had to say here.
But, as I've been reading this thread, felt that I had to speak up.  Alcoholism and the problems it brings are near and dear for me personally.
The guy has problems.  Most alcoholics do.  Usually those problems are the same problems everyone else has...life stuff.  But alcohol gets in the way of dealing with them...and it snowballs, amplifiying the problems.
At some point, every alcoholic probably does have a choice (although some people believe they are born alcoholic due to genetics and just have to pick up that first drink to activate the disease).  But in the end, there is no choice.  They drink because they have to, just to feel "normal."  They can't quit, even though they know what it is doing to them.  I've heard more than one alcoholic state they always felt they were a 6 pack shy of normal.
Talitore--unless you get help with the drinking, you won't have any of that stuff you want to spend time with.  That's not a guess, its a certainty.  There is no problem in life that getting drunk will make better.  Step up, put down the bottle, and ask for help from people qualified to give you the help you need.  Once the addiction is broken, you'll have a choice again.  Lots of good advice here from folks who have dealt with the Navy and DFAS, use it.  But you have to deal with your problem before any of that other stuff can work out.  Sucks, but that's the truth.  It ain't easy, but it gets easier.  Good luck and I wish you and yours the best.

[PapaBear765]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

Sounds like he doesn't need to hear anything more from anyone.  He's got it figured out.

And I don't buy the "alcoholism is a disease...they drink because they have to..."  bravo sierra.  It's an addiction.  The solution is to stop doing that act.  Done.  Will it suck?  Yes.  Will it be difficult?  Yes.  Will it be worth it?  Yes.  It's just that simple.  Someone in this guy's shoes has a hard time ahead of them, but it's only up to him as to what he's going to do about it.  It's only his choices that are going to determine how he'll end up.  He can either continue drinking, not get another job (if needed), continue to live beyond his means, etc. or he can take the advice already given.  Either way, I'm tired of him combating everything he's told as though the advice is absurd and we're all insane.

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok I have read all the bantering back and forth on this a figure I will toss in my two cents.

First, yes the guy has a problem.  Is it one he could have avoided. yes.  Are there some circumstances that aggrivated the situation. Yes.  Life threw him a hard curve and he dealt with it in a manner which was probably not the best way. 

Tailor- I really hope that you got the help you need with your problem.  As far as the money thing goes, yes it really sucks but if the government said they were goign to give you bonus money for re-upping and you did and they fell through, you would want your two years back or the money.  You know have a choice of what to do, you can work towards correcting the problem using some of the advice given here or you can give up and hope that it will all go away(it won't, like someone said you won't see an income tax return or any other money from the government which may include GI bill money and other benefits).  Bottom line is yes you are goign to have to sacrifice some things in order to make this right, now it is up to you what that is, whether it be your family time or material possesions or lifestyle items.  I wish you well and hope that things do work out for you.  Just don't expect anyone to blow smoke up your keister and tell you everything you want to hear because it just won't happen.

Depending on who you talk to, yes Alcoholism is both a disease and a choice.  It is the only disease that people will get angry at you for having.  You don't yell or berate someone for having Tourettes.  Alcoholics are addicts, however constant drinking does affect the body's normal chemistry over time.  As was told to us during several DAPA training sessions, alcoholism is the only addiction/disease that CAN KILL you if you quit cold turkey after heavy abuse.  I am not saying we should all hold Tailor's hand and tell him things are going to be fine and he should have to worry about paying back the money or what he should have done instead of spending it. Clear, honest facts about his options would probably be better.  It is up to him to decide what he needs to do based on what he considers the best course of action. 

[rlbinc]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

I went through 50 years of life and 32 degrees to learn this...
Every solution to any man's problems involves work on himself. (Or building, as we call it.)
The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.
Without that ONE thing, you will remain poor (powerless), blind (foolish), and naked (disabled) - exactly as a newborn infant.
This building involves body (physical work), mind (making better choices in daily life), and spirit (visualizing the joy of the end result).
Mastering these - one becomes the creator of his own life. "As a man thinketh, so is he."

None of us can help you. You need to have this talk with the guy in the mirror.

Many of us have.

[PapaBear765]

The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.

N/A for some of us.

[Gamecock]

N/A for some of us.

It takes more faith to believe you came from some accident of nature then it does to believe in devine design.