Rent-a-tech company improvements?

[Rennhack]

  Just remember that the billing also includes the 7.5 % the coy needs to pay in addition to the SS that you pay.  How about the interest on the money they need to pay your salary that they do not receive until some time later than you get yours.  Then there are taxes on the money they make, and additional overhead for the people that do your pay, billing of hours, and several other positions, that need to be paid from the billing.

LaFeet dosen't want to hear about reality, why waste your time to try to convince him?

The REALITY if the situation is that the cost of doing buisness is 22% to 40% of the workers wage (assuming average bennies).  Anything after that is profit.

[LaFeet]

Gentlemen... I do want to hear what it actually cost to permit me to work at a nuclear plant.  Please feel free tom post the number of postions that is required to allow me to work, the percentages of what pay I support others and the amount of profit that I loose to the company.

I know that I am being payed less than what is billed for me... I just think that there could be an increase in efficiency on the company's part.... one tht would raise the tech's wages and encourage better performance.

Sorry I hit a sore nerve... and yes, I do think I deserve more.  Yes, I agree to work for the wages I sign on for, gladly so.  And yes, I enjoy the work I do.

I do not do all the work, I said we.  I do work hard and give 110 % no matter where I sign on. 

Mr. Bartlett... I still enjoy working for your company, but I honestly think that there should be an increase in the techs wages and that Bartlett could streamline their operation.

[Marssim]

Now you all are bein' mean and just goofy to boot,
'course La Feets feels the way he does, he needs to start his own tech services company, gain a contract or two, and then experience how things are from the dark side for himself, it ain't all bad, but it ain't all good either, you gotta want to be in that game to stay in it,....
but this is an old and tired topic, and not just on this board, before nukeworker.com this was a tired topic,...
but you know how RP's can be, never saw a dead horse they couldn't beat just a little bit more,...
and as for the topic thread, it could never succeed, a socialist organization competing against free market corporations in a free market economy is doomed to failure without regulated protections and set asides against thier competition, hey, even Ben & Jerry's had to go free market corporate to survive past their marketing honeymoon,....

peace and karma to all,.....marssim,....

[LaFeet]

LaFeet dosen't want to hear about reality, why waste your time to try to convince him?

The REALITY if the situation is that the cost of doing buisness is 22% to 40% of the workers wage (assuming average bennies).  Anything after that is profit.

Prove it to me... and I dont receive any bennies....  I have an open mind and love to learn.  Show me how you operate.

As for reality... Im out here working my a$$ off without any complaints, bitches or moans.  And as long as I enjoy doing this work, I hope to be gainfully employed.

[Roll Tide]

I do not do all the work, I said we.  I do work hard and give 110 % no matter where I sign on. 

Mr. Bartlett... I still enjoy working for your company, but I honestly think that there should be an increase in the techs wages and that Bartlett could streamline their operation.

I hear what you are saying. But read the talk about companies threads: everyone is saying what a great outfit they are for paying via Direct Deposit or how far behind the curve a company is for not having a large enough office / HQ staff to handle such details. Most demand the benefits of a larger company more loudly than they demand the higher pay. That is why I would prefer to work for Bartlett over Joe's Techs (and wonder if my check would clear 2 days after payday).


And even though you give 110%, the utility doesn't! Bartlett can't pay you 110% of what they receive, even though the utility would surely say you are worth it. I doubt Bartlett will give you a higher percentage, when the percieved demand is increasing faster than demand. But if they get a better contract and give you the same percentage, it will feel the same (and there will still be someone at the office to handle your Direct Deposit).

[Rennhack]

Based on 167 hrs worked in 1 month.  My cost to employ you would be:

FICA    277.18
Workman's Compensation    242.00
Medical Insurance    228.96
Holiday    204.00
General Liability     125.00
Medicare    64.82
PPE    39.59
Federal Unemployment    4.67
State Unemployment    2.05

      
Total Cost    1,188.27 / 167 = 7.12/hr
      
29% markup on $24.50+7.12=31.62

With no account for overhead.  I would lose money if I charged $32/hr for you, and paid you $24.50.


Now... If I could get a utility to allow me to pay you $34.50... My costs go down.  Most of the big ticket expenses remain about the same.

[Eric_Bartlett]

Gentlemen... I do want to hear what it actually cost to permit me to work at a nuclear plant.  Please feel free tom post the number of postions that is required to allow me to work, the percentages of what pay I support others and the amount of profit that I loose to the company.

I know that I am being payed less than what is billed for me... I just think that there could be an increase in efficiency on the company's part.... one tht would raise the tech's wages and encourage better performance.

Sorry I hit a sore nerve... and yes, I do think I deserve more.  Yes, I agree to work for the wages I sign on for, gladly so.  And yes, I enjoy the work I do.

I do not do all the work, I said we.  I do work hard and give 110 % no matter where I sign on. 

Mr. Bartlett... I still enjoy working for your company, but I honestly think that there should be an increase in the techs wages and that Bartlett could streamline their operation.

LaFeet - Please don’t get me wrong, I was attempting to educate you and others on what it takes - I probably went about it a little to adversarial...anyways take or leave what I have to tell you, it is your choice. 

Most companies Bartlett's size operate with twice the overhead Bartlett has - we have streamlined about as far as one can and still function - for example the biggest complaint I hear out there nowadays is its damned hard to get thru to a recruiter - that’s because we are operating with less recruiters than we had in the 90's but staffing almost twice the amount of work - and that’s not just tightening up on recruiting but all of the departments here in corporate.  That’s one of the main reasons why we were so attractive to our new owners, we did more with less.

Most mark-ups in this industry are as Mike pointed out are anywhere from 22% to 40% based on different variables - for example a solo gig may call for a higher mark-up to justify its worth where as on a multiple person contract the mark-ups are pitifully low so we are not making a whole helluva lot of money off the individual but as a group we turn a profit.  Kinda like asking one person for 10 dollars as compared to asking 10 people for 1 dollar - you get the same amount of money, it just takes allot more people to get you there.  HP and Decon contracts in this industry (commercial) are notoriously low mark-ups.

Anyways getting back to the original question I had asked "what to you is a fair portion 75%, 80%, 90%" I was looking for an answer because right now on the standard outage you are keeping anywhere from 75% to 80% or more of the billing rate.  So for simplicities sake lets say we have a billing rate of 10/hr and you keep 75%, or $7.50.  The other 2.50 now has to cover all of the items Mike listed - FICA. Workman's, Medical, Holidays (the utilities rarely pay holidays on the standard HP outage contract, but they will dictate to us which one we must pay), General Liability. Medicare, PPE. Fed Unemployment, and State Unemployment plus we have to pay the people that hired you, badged you(at most sites), paid your diem(oh and in case you were not aware Perdiem, travel and other misc. expense related items are a direct pass thru meaning we bill what we pay out not more so the only thing we can turn a profit on is the hourly rates), paid your hourly, handled your insurance, billed the utility so we can pay your diem and hourly, typed your resume, etc.. plus we have other expenses such as heat in the winter, computers, phone bills, electric bills, leases , mortgages and or property taxes.  Then we have the non billable people out there that we need to pay such as most admin assistants on site during outages, regional managers that are an integral part of paying homage to clients, some site coordinator slots, etc...  So to look at it in perspective I have 1 person working at Plant X, my markup is going to be high to pay all for that where as I have 75 RP's working an outage my mark-ups are real low because we aren’t looking for the gross profit on one tech to pay all of the above and more, we are looking for the combined gross profit on all of the techs to pay all of the above. 

Believe you me when it comes to making more money as an individual I am all for it, as I’ve said in the past the more I can pay the more you make plus the more I can bill thus the more we make.  Its allot easier to staff a job paying 28/hr and 110/day as compared to 22/hr and 85/day.  I understand where you are coming from on this but until our clients give us a "the sky is the limit" billing rate we are stuck trying to squeeze pennies out of each billable slot in hopes that those pennies add up to dollars.  The day they don’t is the day we go under.

Eric

PS I am glad you enjoy working for us and I'm gald that you have asked the questions or made the statements you did.  Keep up the questioning and if i dont know the answer I'll make up a great BS story just kidd'n if i dont have the answere i'm sure someone like Mike, or Biercourt, or one of the many other posters will jump in to explain how things work.

[UncaBuffalo]

Then we have the non billable people out there that we need to pay such as...regional managers that are an integral part of paying homage to clients... 

[rjc4243]

  Very good answer Eric.  There is a lot to run a company that is not seen by everyone.

[alphadude]

beware of people that give 110% , they have low standards..

(hint for resume writers never never use that phrase-we were taught to screen out all the 110% resume people and put them on the other pile..its a flag)

[Camella Black]

I believe you should be able to earn vacation days. Some of us have been employed (as contractors) with Bartlett for 15 - 20 years seems to me that we could earn a paid day off once in a while.

I would also like to see a wage increase put into affect - even $1.00 an hour would be a start.

[RDTroja]

beware of people that give 110% , they have low standards..

(hint for resume writers never never use that phrase-we were taught to screen out all the 110% resume people and put them on the other pile..its a flag)

I have always had a major problem with the 'giving 110%' bit, too. In addition to being impossible, it is trite and more than a little arrogant.

[Brett LaVigne]

Where pay is concerned, I get the argument for overhead, comp insurance etc. I don't disagree with Eric's answer for where the money goes and I commend you for having the backbone to routinely get on these forums and enlighten us. I believe it to be honest info.

That being said, I think there is an argument to be made for the drastic swing in pay from site to site. Currently I am making within' $3 - $5 of my house tech partners (excluding any benefits) and I am pretty satisfied with that, it seems fair. My next site will be in one of the more expensive areas of the country and I will be making $15/hour less than my house tech partners (again, excluding any benefits). In conversation with a laborer that is working with me at my current site and also going to my next site I found out that I will be making $12/hour less than him (also excluding benefits) and I will also be giving up $1/hour from the last time I was there along with a $1/hour bonus that will not be available this time. I should be spanked for accepting this "deal". It is unfortunate that I need the work right now.

It seems like Big Blue has a significant amount of the commercial work out there and could lean on these plants a bit when contract time is up. How can we really think that we are considered a Professional group when we are treated like this? I know people with no education working in a factory hanging fenders day in and day out that dwarf our income. We travel hundreds of miles from home, provide a "professional" service and carry tremendous responsibility (arguably the most) and make less than a laborer (in some cases).
Why should we have to travel into a new town and look for a shoebox, flea bag motel to stay in because we have to try and save per-diem to make up for pay?

I have been back in this business for a little over a year and many of you will see that I have changed my mind set a bit in the past few months. I still love my job and believe that there are many doing more for less, but I have been educated by observation and conversation over the last year and now realize that we are not being treated fairly when compared to other groups. I don't hold the contract companies soley responsible for this, it is a combination. It is our fault for accepting this, it is the contract companies fault for weak account management, and all of our faults for not considering our selves professionals and demanding that we be treated as such.

Other than that...I still think we should get some company trinkets

[Camella Black]

Regarding company trinkets, I know most of us love them and think we deserve them (heck I don't work for Bartlett but I'd LOVE a jacket); anyway here's my idea why not give them out on a points system.

The more points you earn the next trinket level you go to... I'd even love to see pins and hat pins maybe then we could start a swap... speaking of pins why not honor those that have worked for you faithfully for a set amount of years like 5, 10,....

Idea number two make trinkets a part of the welcoming package, everybody gets some little something...

[SloGlo]

How much of the billing for yur position do you get SloGlo???  Ima kuryus

my lastest hpt position, i grossed 60% of billing rate.

[LaFeet]

LaFeet - Please don’t get me wrong, I was attempting to educate you and others on what it takes - I probably went about it a little to adversarial...anyways take or leave what I have to tell you, it is your choice. 

Believe you me when it comes to making more money as an individual I am all for it, as I’ve said in the past the more I can pay the more you make plus the more I can bill thus the more we make.  Its allot easier to staff a job paying 28/hr and 110/day as compared to 22/hr and 85/day.  I understand where you are coming from on this but until our clients give us a "the sky is the limit" billing rate we are stuck trying to squeeze pennies out of each billable slot in hopes that those pennies add up to dollars.  The day they don’t is the day we go under.

Eric

Eric, thanks for the response.
As for a percentage of what I would feel is fair.... I would have to see the actual numbers.

I am willing to take home less when the margin between billing and profit is less say when there is only 5 dollars per hour to support the remainder of the company.  But when there is a greater margin, lets see more go into the techs paycheck as well. Again, I would like to see the actual numbers. But I know that that will never happen.

I know that there is a great amount of support that requires money to maintain, and I am  thankfull for that being there.  I, unlike many, do not need direct deposit, medical or dental insurance, or a number of other amenitites.  And while it may have seemed that I was complaining at first, I am not.


As for all the 110 % comments.... arrogant - yes, but those that have worked with me know my work ethics.  Keep me busy or send me home. I hope that I never dissappoint those people that I work for....it would be a massive failing on my part.

Good luck to all and hope to see you down the road

[SloGlo]

$5 after wages to support da resta da company?  whoinell due you no who wood werk four dat?  pleez, run yer numbers hear two show how dats worthwile fer any group uv peepal. 

[rocknrollrick]

Ok let me jump in on this one for a minute. Let's face the facts everyone wants a pay increase. What is the number one thing that goes up for us on the road and everyone else the cost! inflation!! You guys are missing the point, PERDIEM!!! It's the only direct pass through, costs Bartlett nothing other than check processing fees and it's a write off for the utilities. We still get well under the Federal Government rate at most sites. Utilities! want to staff your outage fast and with the creme off the crop pay $150.00 a day and see what happen's.  Let's face we should be payed like any other skilled trade at a site but until that day, give me cold hard cash, green backs It would be nice to stay at a 5 star hotel without chewing up your whole per diem check. After all utilities pay USA tech's Federal Rate of Per Dieum

[xobxdoc]

Ok let me jump in on this one for a minute. Let's face the facts everyone wants a pay increase. What is the number one thing that goes up for us on the road and everyone else the cost! inflation!! You guys are missing the point, PERDIEUM!!! It's the only direct pass through, costs Bartlett nothing other than check processing fees and it's a write off for the utilities. We still get well under the Federal Government rate at most sites. Utilities! want to staff your outage fast and with the creme off the crop pay $150.00 a day and see what happen's.  Let's face we should be payed like any other skilled trade at a site but until that day, give me cold hard cash, green backs It would be nice to stay at a 5 star hotel without chewing up your whole per dieum check. After all utilities pay USA tech's Federal Rate of Per Dieum

When I was on the road I never got more than 50 a day in per diem, even though the government rate was a lot more. I'm not sure of the tax law on per diem, but can't you claim the difference in the per diem you get compared to the per diem that is allowed on your taxes?

[rocknrollrick]

Yes you can but it isn't the same as getting the cash

[xobxdoc]

The cash is always better, but that amount of per diem that is allowed is a pipe dream and writing off the difference is a way to offset what your not getting.

[BeerCourt]

NO! NO! NO!
You can NOT write off the amount you are not getting as a tax deduction.  I'm not going to explain this again.  Use search.
I'd like to know what stupid son of a Junior Senator from New York came up with this bull$@!t.

By the way, "most sites" are located in rural counties far away from big cities.  (There is a reason for that).  This means that the normal US Nuclear Power Plant or DOE site is located in an area where the standard government per diem rate is only $109 as of 10/1/2007.  It was $99 before that.  This includes Salem/Hope Creek, where you are probably getting more than $109.  You are not getting as ripped off as you think.  At the most, you are probably getting $5 - $15 below the GSA rate.  Quit crying.  You don't spend it all anyway.  According to the tax law, you have to give back to your employer what you cannot account for.  Try actually getting paid for your work what it is worth.  (For some of you, this might mean a huge pay cut.)

[RAD-GHOST]

Damn it EB, you got me to chime in!

From my perspective, Diablo, (mentioned above), is the front runner in compensation for the industry’s RP/HP technicians, they also have a very unique hiring practice, (they get what they want, not what they get)!  Looks like the Spring season is most definitely going to bring some interesting staffing challenges for all of the utilities, all but one!

What Percentage should the Technicians Receive; Let the numbers do the talking!

Diablo's temp staff receives 100% of the utilities rate and usually staffs 100%, (with another 100%+ waiting in the wings)!  How many Health Physics OE's have we read from Diablo over the last decade?  How many regulatory issues have we read pertaining to Diablo’s Health Physics program?  Besides the compensation, I've heard that the utility maintains an atmosphere that is GENUINELY cordial, cooperative, friendly and professional which is a VERY RARE EXCEPTION in the Industry today.  I'm not sure of the actual returnee rate, but I've heard unverified rumors of 100%!  How about the experience and technical level of the up coming staff, (collectively and the per capita average)?  The baby of the bunch is probably going to come it at 15+ years experience.  I'm not sure who created this relationship, but it is refreshing to finally see a program maintained under a real professional venue!  It's probably just a California thing, and wont work anywhere else!       

Now the others side:  The technicians receive approximately 70% of the total billing rate and most facilities find themselves looking to fill a staffing deficit of 30% at crunch time, (some at a much higher rate)!  Resume reviews have become fairly simple, 4000 or 6000 hours and not much more!  Of course there is a plethora of excuses that get assigned to the staffing situation; the primary excuse being the number of available Technicians in the industry, (compensation packages and facility atmosphere are ridiculous considerations)!  Is there an actual shortage of technicians in the industry?  Obviously the answer is yes, but not to the extent that some advertise.  The factual statement would be a shortage of experienced technicians.  Agree or not, as the staff experience level increases, the necessary volume of the staff can decrease, you don’t have to pay people to watch people!  Sorry to say, but a greeter and repeater doesn’t account for field experience!  How many OE’s and regulatory issues have we read from these sites?  The required reading, at some sites, is running a close second in size to a New York phone book!  One has to also consider the reception at a lot of facilities; Contractors are Events waiting to happen!  Sadly enough I can’t supply a lot of opposition to those comments, the past year has brought many events that reinforce those opinions. I can safely say that the majority of those events are directly related to the individuals experience level.  I could beat this one to death, but it's all been said and read before. 

One has to wonder way Diablo doesn't have these problems?  I believe the West Coast approach should be a strong consideration in today’s market, since many of the utilities have a multi-site structure, why not hire as direct temps?  You can't argue that concept, considering that Big Blue was the front runner with the CORE concept. Maybe it’s time for a utility Fishing Expedition!  An open communications venue between the technicians and the utilities, internet based.  I believe a lot of utilities would be impressively surprised at the response and the actual resources still available in the industry.  After all requesting a resume, with verifiable references, isn’t a formal a contract, so why not give it a try!  Obviously the “it can’t be done” suggestion has been put to rest, because it is being done!
 
Mike, great information on the associated costs, you made it looks so simple.  Not that I would be privileged to any contract information, but why does it take between 30 to 50 pages to outline the bottom line details?

Have a Great Day....RG   

[Brett LaVigne]

At Diablo Canyon we get an entry level wage (for a house HP) and federal rate perdiem. We also have the same deal where overtime and double time is concerned as the house techs under their union contract. This equals what we think is a big fat paycheck. What it really equals is the deal that we should be getting at all utilities. This Diablo deal is still minus any bene's like health insurance, a real 401K, pension etc. but it is the best in the business.

Other than the fat paychecks, there is a culture of hard work and respect. The management lives up to all of the promises that they make and not just the ones that suit them. If they promise you that you will be on site for 5 weeks and 3 days, you can count on being on site for 5 weeks and 3 days. In return for being treated with respect they require that we do the same in the form of hard work and taking initiative. I have worked with many of the techs that work Diablo at several other sites over the years. Most all of them are good techs no matter where we have worked together but most are SUPERSTAR techs when they are at Diablo. It is amazing the level most will rise to when they are treated fairly.

The comments about perdiem that we are only $5 - $15 below GSA rates is not an arguement and I don't believe it to be true. My next site I will be over $60/day below the Federal rate and I am nearly $50/day below at my current site. All of this is beside the point. If the Federal rate is $135/day then we should get $135/day, end of story.

[Marssim]

NO! NO! NO!
You can NOT write off the amount you are not getting as a tax deduction.  I'm not going to explain this again.  Use search.
I'd like to know what stupid son of a Junior Senator from New York came up with this bull$@!t.......

Actually you can, you can do all kinds of things when you file your taxes, it's the audit where things get dicey,...heheheh

good luck with those deductions, marssim

[xobxdoc]

NO! NO! NO!
You can NOT write off the amount you are not getting as a tax deduction.  I'm not going to explain this again.  Use search.
I'd like to know what stupid son of a Junior Senator from New York came up with this bull$@!t.

I don't remember asking you to explain. But seeing that you did anyway, the information given like all the information on this site is greatly appreciated. It would be a lot better without your crappy attitude. Lighten up!

[rocknrollrick]

According to the tax law, you have to give back to your employer what you cannot account for.  Try actually getting paid for your work what it is worth.  (For some of you, this might mean a huge pay cut.)



Mr.Beercourt,

Having worked with you in the past, your statement speaks for itself. It surely holds true,
even a Blind Squirel can find a nut once in a while Blessed are they who go around in circles for the shall be called BIG WHEELS

[BeerCourt]

Hi Rick.  You know? .... I don't think we ever actually worked "together".  We were at some of the same outages when I was  a House Mouse, and we saw each other a few times at Calvert.  This hardly constitutes working together.  If you were on one of my crews at Ginna, all I can say is that I don't remember it.  So, your performance could not have been that bad.  I haven't judged you or the quality of your work here in the public pages of this site, and you are not the slightest bit qualified to do so to me.  If you feel that the comment about a pay cut was directed at you, I must point out that it was directed there by you - not me.  I would not presume to do such a thing.  I have no information on the quality of your work (as you have none about mine) so it would be unfair of me to make such a judgement.  Would it not?

Anyway, my point stands.  Per diem is a small fraction of what you should be earning.  Quit playing around with the horse crap of trying to wring a few bucks a day in per diem when you should be trying to get the hourly rate that you deserve.  The only people who should object to that are the ones who think that they deserve less than what they are getting now.  I don't think that anyone here fits that category.

[BeerCourt]

xobxdoc,
sorry about the 'tude, dude.  I just got a little frustrated because I have spent a lot of time and effort here to help people prevent the potentially costly mistake of taking phantom tax deductions for some per diem that they thought that they should get. It only takes one post here to open that can of worms again.

Anyway, the issue isn't really deductions or taxes.  It is people who are (for the most part) underpaid looking to settle for peanuts when they should be ordering some steaks.  Even an extra $50 a day in per diem would mean only an extra $7500 a year in take home pay to people who should be making 40 grand more than they are per year.  Per diem is crumbs.  Go for the cake!!


Did I stick enough metaphors and analogies in there, or is there room for one more.  I notice that they are all food-related (except for the worms).  It must be close to supper time.

[SloGlo]

all tho i have know problem with earning moor per our, it has all waze bin my point of contenshun dat iffen der is a per diem rate published four an area, dat is da rate dat shood bee payed.  no questshuns, no lies.