Bellefonte

[Roll Tide]

Congratulations!
Where do you test? Huntsville Space Center Marriott?

[Roll Tide]

Do you have kids? (or plans for kids?)
School districts are a big part of the equation if kids are involved. While I loved Jackson County, the schools aren't what I would have liked. They prepare kids for the high school graduation exam; 100% pass rate on grad exam but no impressive SAT / ACT scores.

The college is probably a better choice. I would have expected UCLA (University of Calhoun Longside the Airport) for a Browns Ferry job...

[Roll Tide]

I enjoyed the UCLA line when I first heard it at Browns Ferry (thanks Mo).

Marion County TN is very nice, and parts of it are within an easy commute to Bellefonte (someday). I suppose I would relocate (again) if I transferred to Bellefonte, since I am in Dade County GA now.

[Roll Tide]

I'd go to Bellefonte in a heartbeat. I did see on the TVA website we have a bid out for Lead Instructors at Bellefonte.

Mike

The posting appears to be in error. 6 openings for Decatur should be Browns Ferry; to some admin type in Chattanooga there must not be any difference.

[Ordinary Joe]

  I understand that the Nustart engineering will include the "footprint" for either a AP1000 or an ABWR.  Since Nustart doesn't have any construction aspect to it, funding will have to come from elsewhere.  Enter another consortium looking into the feasibility of an ABWR at the site (TVA, Toshiba, etc).  The current situation allows for strategic and financial flexibility for TVA.  I also understand Watts Bar two to be in the race for return on investment. $2Bn to Complete or so.
  As far as the earlier question about funding and TVA's finances.  TVA hasn't received federal funding for decades, strictly from debt or revenue generated through power sales.  However, TVA does have access to relatively low interest government loans. 
  IN the case that it wasn't mentioned the construction license for the old plant has been relinquished and the site is no longer being maintained
.

[Broadzilla]

Actually the site is being maintained, the relinquishing of the Construction Permit only relinquished maintaining the nuclear end. Certain parts of the site were not included. TVA is in fact maintaining the Environmental end under the requirements needed to maintain it as a nuclear site.

So far as I know they have no idea how much it would cost to finish WBN2. They haven't ran any real numbers yet.

Nustart has already said they want an AP 1000 at Bellefonte.

Mike

[Ordinary Joe]

I'm sure TVA has been tracking the cost of Watts bar two for years, they have an idea and real numbers (as real as they get for a one-of-kind project on such a large scale). 

NUSTART has selected Bellefonte for an AP1000- correct.   There is also signiificant amount of time and resources being invested to look at the ABWR as well.  So it appears the AP1000 is not the last word at this point.

I'm not on any project team for any of these so none of this is "inside" information or drawn from official TVA statements. 

Almost looks like you've disagreed just to disagree??

[Broadzilla]

Note when I masde my intial post TVAN hadn't completed  the real numbers for Watts Barr. I wasn't disagreeing merely to disagree. In May it was a true statement.

I knew what the NUSTART plans met. I know a guy on the PM Team who was specifically told AP 1000. So far he says this hasn't been overturned.

I've been in Bellefonte. By maintained I did not mean to imply they keep the plant in mint condition, but it's not junk either.

It's no longer considered a "nuclear" site. TVAN kept some of the permits up to date because they didn't want to start cold. It makes sense as they won't have to start from ground up with the Environmental stuff. While this is a key condition for easing later Nuclear Applications it is in no way Nuclear permits they are keeping up to date.

Mike

[Ordinary Joe]

I know a guy on the PM Team who was specifically told AP 1000. So far he says this hasn't been overturned.

Who is it you've spoken to?  Perhaps it's a mutual acquaintance.  I'd like to get up to speed since this is something I like to stay informed about.

[WillyB]

Anybody hear when Bellefonte would start demolition and construction?  I previously worked at the plant, '82-'85, as a co-op student and would like to go back and finish the plant.  I liked the job and loved the area.  Would love to go back.

[Roll Tide]

We are probably a year out from hearing the announced dates for construction. I doubt there will be much demolition; just leave it in place and build next door.

[Roll Tide]

A TVA director offers a timeline (Browns Ferry 1 Restart, Watts Bar 2 Completion, and then twin Bellefonte AP1000 construction):

The Bellefonte project would be a “little further out” or down the road, than Watts Bar, said Thrailkill.
NuStart could file its application for a COL (Combined Operating License) with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and under the most recent NRC control regulations, the study on a decision could take several years...at least five.
Plans had originally been made calling for actual construction to begin as early as 2010 and be completed by 2015. However, Thrailkill said there is no timetable and the project has not been approved.
Despite what TVA officials say, it appears the project is at least two years behind previously anticipated plans.


http://www.thedailysentinel.com/story.lasso?tool=print&ewcd=150c7ab40cd534d1


(Read the link quick; Daily Sentinel doesn't keep them available long!)

[Roll Tide]

No more speculation about the old unfinished Bellefonte site:
The Reactor Buildings will remain (too expensive to tear down).
The Cooling Towers, Intake Structure, and Switchyard will be used when a new plant is built.
Everything else (turbine halls, fire hall, Admin building, and more) will be demolished in preparation for possible AP1000 construction.

[deaztrailnutz]

I'm confused.  In September the NRC canceled the construction permits for Bellefonte.  Will they have to reapply if they decide to use reactors/plans other than those supplied by B&W?  Roll Tide, how did being B&W opposed to Westinghouse save them?  I have heard PWRs and I have BWRs, which one would TVA use at Bellefonte?  I have an uncle who works for Southern Co. and said their priorities are to build 2 new PWRs at Vogtle, but Southern Co. is also looking at building a nuke somewhere near Chilton Co (or somewhere nearby).  He also said SoCo & TVA were in verbal talks about finishing Bellefonte together (nothing is binding as of now; no contracts. At anytime either party could walk away from the table)? 

[Roll Tide]

TVA did not renew the non-disclosure agreement, which was the basis for their potential partnership on anything. That part is dead.

TVA did notify the NRC of the desired construction permits' cancellation. The new plants will not use the old plants (except the cooling towers (which is just Tennessee River water cooling) and the switchyard). Current plans is Westinghouse AP1000 design with NuStart pushing the study. Actual construction will probably only be one utility (TVA or competitor) rather than the multiple parties involved in NuStart.

I have no detailed knowledge about Southern, but it makes sense to look hard at your new commercial nuke plant construction (Vogtle) as well as build support for a new site later. I would love to see another 100 plants on line before I retire, and that looks like a distinct possibility in the current US environment.

[Roll Tide]

According to the local Scottsboro paper, Bellefonte looks good as a new site.

The plant seemingly became more entrenched over the weekend as TVA Board of Directors has begun mapping needs of more power production and they appear to be leaning heavily toward nuclear power as the source.

TVA estimates it will need the equivalent of a new nuclear plant every two years for an unspecified time. TVA directors are preparing a new strategic plan this year to guide how the utility will supply that need.

TVA is committed to reactivating its oldest reactor at Browns Ferry and plans for completion of Unit 2 at Watts Bar, which is about half finished.
...

Francis said the proposed new nuclear project at Bellefonte is still on schedule. By October of this year, TVA and its NuStart partners are to submit an application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a new type of water pressurized reactor, a Westinghouse AP-1000 design, at the Bellefonte site. Engineering work is currently under way, Francis said Monday.

The NRC will have three years to sign off on the plans before construction starts, which conceivably could be in 2011.


A new nuke every 2 years could look like this: BFN1 2007; WBN2 2009 (or 2010); that would put a need for the 2 proposed AP1000 plants @ Bellefonte by 2011 (or 2012) and 2013 (or 2014). 

In reality, WBN2 is probably going to be 2011, which would push back BLN completion to 2013 and 2015 at best. TVA may not have learned every lesson from the Nuclear Bust following TMI, but they have determined to not try more than 1 project at a time.

Full article (for a VERY limited time):

http://www.thedailysentinel.com/story.lasso?tool=print&ewcd=b248b27fbb5b4490

[deaztrailnutz]

Roll Tide do you have a prefrence to the GE BWR over the AP1000 by westinghouse?

[Roll Tide]

Roll Tide do you have a prefrence to the GE BWR over the AP1000 by westinghouse?

I definitely prefer the AP1000. M1Ark says the GE ABWR is better, but he won't tell me why!

(If you have ever worked RadCon, you will never be able to justify building a BWR over a PWR!)

[Broadzilla]

Why? The dose rates at our plant and the annual dose is 3 times higher than at Fermi, a BWR-4. Also there's no comparison in Outage Dose. Fermi was a LOT lower.

Mike

[M1Ark]

I definitely prefer the AP1000. M1Ark says the GE ABWR is better, but he won't tell me why!

(If you have ever worked RadCon, you will never be able to justify building a BWR over a PWR!)

Actually I said the ESBWR is better than the AP1000 and both are Gen 3+ reactors.  The ABWR is an older design and does not compare well to the AP1000.  I've already told Roll Tide some excellent reasons for my bias towards the ESBWR.  Radcon is a poor answer since it's not true.  N-16 dose is higher at power for a BWR but even that has been engineered in the design.  BWR building and structures are built quite a bit different than a PWR.

Again, both designs are good and I would work at either one.  All of the PWR types that ended up working at my old BWR said that they prefer the boiler design.

Deaz,

Use the search function and you'll find the thread on this subject already asked and answered.

[Roll Tide]

Why? The dose rates at our plant and the annual dose is 3 times higher than at Fermi, a BWR-4. Also there's no comparison in Outage Dose. Fermi was a LOT lower.

Mike

Dose rates to who? Control Room operators? That only changes if you compare Chernobyl! 
I have spent quite a few hours wriggling through the drywell @ beautiful Browns Ferry, and providing coverage for RWCU HX hydrolancing and other wonderful jobs where I picked up more dose in an average PWR year.


While I wouldn't have been leading protests outside the fence over building the ESBWR (Extra-Special BWR?) at Bellefonte, I am happy that NuSTART chose the AP1000 for the Bellefonte site. Regardless, M1Ark did provide reassurance at the prospect of having a BWR for a neighbor.

Speaking of M1Ark: there is a limit on the size of the inbox for PMs (unless you become a Goldmember). I can't reply...

[Broadzilla]

Uh I was a NLO at a BWR-4 and I've compared items like Outage dose for both types of reactors I've worked at. The average NLO at our plant gets more dose per year than at Fermi. I can name at least 5 or 6 times at Fermi where they were in the top quartile for all Reactors in the US for Dose AND many times when they would have been in the top 10% of PWRs. Additionally Fermi NEVER had the outage dose I've seen in 3 outages at SQN.

Mike

[Roll Tide]

Mike,

One of these threads I will find out why you don't know what you are looking at. Based on your experience, it is confusing to me that we disagree with data available to both of us. Regardless, I must withdraw to a neutral corner due to being WAY off-topic.

[ageoldtech]

What’s the difference between a BWR fence post and a PWR fence post?

[Roll Tide]

What’s the difference between a BWR fence post and a PWR fence post?

The voids are part of the inherent design in a MWR post, but are avoided in all but the most challenging accident scenarios in a PWR fence post. 

[ageoldtech]

Thanks for the helpful insight, I knew there was a answer!

[M1Ark]

I think Roll Tide and Broadzilla are both correct.  Fermi was the exception as a BWR in that there were a lot of plant modifications performed in the late 80's and early 90's at Fermi to minimize dose.

1. Cobalt 60 and stelite bearing minimization effort
2. Zinc injection for establishing corrosion boundary layer
3. The Turbine Building and the Reactor Building are very different than the "turn-key" GE plants I've been to.  More shielding provided by the Fermi structures as compared to Nine Mile Point, Brunswick and Susquehannah.

Roll Tide is quoting BWR's from his experience and Broadzilla is quoting a BWR were dose control was key during construction and early plant maturation.

Not an apples to apples comparison. 

I promise Roll Tide that if you ever licensed at a boiler your opinion would be very different.

[Roll Tide]

I promise Roll Tide that if you ever licensed at a boiler your opinion would be very different.

I guess it could happen. But this dog's getting older. Not too much time left to learn new tricks. 

But we are still WAY off topic for Bellefonte. I would love to be able to see into the future 10 years for that site.

[Roll Tide]

According to a local paper, the local college has been approached by the NRC for a meeting at their coliseum on the morning of September 11th. If that happens, all supporters of new reactors @ Bellefonte need to be there.


http://www.theweeklypost.com/story.lasso?ewcd=40f1c9a53b0ee066

[grantime]

I hope that they decide to build there.  It's pretty country up there and it's my wife's home town,  I could be talked into living around there.