NukeWorker Forum
Career Path => Navy Nuke => Navy:Getting In => Topic started by: tradosaurus on May 16, 2010, 10:58
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I took my 20 year old son to the Navy Recruiter the other day to look at the nuke program.
My son has finished his 2nd year of college in an engineering program at a private university in Texas. It is extremely difficult but he is, so far, maintaining a 3.0 GPA.
He has $15,000 in government college loans accumulated and is feeling the pressure of maintaining grades and worrying about paying for college.
The recruiter gave him a practice ASVAB to see where he would score and he made an equivalent 95 (out of 99). The recruiter said that on the real test he will most likely make a 99. My son is also an eagle scout which the recruiter stated that it would automatically bump him to an E-3 immediately in boot camp.
The recruiter also stated that there could be an enlistment bonus of up to $15,000.00 but it couldn't be guaranteed.
Questions:
1) Is it possible to get loans repaid by Navy and get an enlistment bonus if he joins?
2) Is there anything else that my son should know before he signs the dotted line?
3) Is there any negotiation my son could make before signing the dotted line to help him get the maximum bonus and benefits?
4) Will he be challenged?
Thank you in advance.
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Has he looked into the NUPOC program? It might be a way he can get money for college while still attending school then go into the navy after he graduates. If he has finished his sophomore year of an engineering degree he probably meets the minimum requirements.
http://www.navy.com/navy/joining/education-opportunities/undergraduate.html
NUPOC is at the bottom of the page.
I recommend that he looks into NUPOC BEFORE he enlists. The recruiter may tell him that enlisting first will increase his chances but that is not true. If he doesn't get selected for NUPOC he can always enlist later.
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The brochure my son received states that he can apply to the BOOST program after Nuclear Prototype School which would pay him to finish his engineering degree and then put him in the Officer Training Pipeline.
Of course there is no guarantee he would be accepted.
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The brochure my son received states that he can apply to the BOOST program after Nuclear Prototype School which would pay him to finish his engineering degree and then put him in the Officer Training Pipeline.
Of course there is no guarantee he would be accepted.
To add to what Duchess is saying....an Enlisted Recruiter will usually NOT help your son get into an Officer Program. An enlisted recruiter wants to only fill a billet...now...today. He doesn't get points for sending your son to an Officer Recruiter.
He'll be happy to explain all the things your son can "try" to do over the course of his enlistment though.
Talk to an Officer Recruiter...especially if he's already in a college engineering program. The Officer Recruiter has a different mission with different programs than the enlisted recruiters. At the end of the day, weigh all options on the table and your son can make a decision that fits his short/long-term goals.
Good luck.
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The brochure my son received states that he can apply to the BOOST program after Nuclear Prototype School which would pay him to finish his engineering degree and then put him in the Officer Training Pipeline.
Of course there is no guarantee he would be accepted.
BOOST is a program to help capable minority enlisted folks become officers. It is never described in those terms, but believe me. Minorities only. Very personal experience talking here.
The Navy indeed had a program which can pay off your son's student loans. It is very specific and constrained. research carefully.
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BOOST is a program to help capable minority enlisted folks become officers. It is never described in those terms, but believe me. Minorities only. Very personal experience talking here.
The Navy indeed had a program which can pay off your son's student loans. It is very specific and constrained. research carefully.
You are wrong.
I know many non-minority people that managed to get their commission via the BOOST program.
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One more thing:
My son was able to be classified as "American Indian" by the enlisted recruiter while filling out initial paperwork.
I don't know if that will help. (?)
Thanks.
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I was an Executive Officer in A Army Nuclear Biological Chemical (NBC)Company. Duchess is right, a recruiter wants a enlisted man now to fill his quota.
I have had many privates in my company say they were told they could go Officer candidate when they graduate (NBC) school. Let me tell you it is alot harder to do when you are in. Only one person out of about 20 did I get in a Officer slot, and that person had a degree already in Chemistry and was honor graduate.
Also I do not know about bonuses now, but some of my privates did not ask about it and were not given a bonus. Also they sometimes change from time to time and waiting one way or another could affect the bonus. I do not know about NUPOC but I went through ROTC and they paid my tuition books and gave me a monthly check. Check with a officer recruiter to see what is available or even go to a couple colleges or at least call them. There is also a world of difference between colleges and how hard they try for you.
I went to Austin Peay State University in TN. They worked real hard, ( They only have Army) After I got the scholarship Vanderbilt tried to steal me., I knew the prestige of a Vanderbilt degree but felt I owed Austin Peay so I stayed. I think even though this is Army alot of this would be applicable to your son and his getting the best deal from the navy. I thank you for checking this board out, and it is usually no BS and shoots you straight. Good Luck
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One more thing:
My son was able to be classified as "American Indian" by the enlisted recruiter while filling out initial paperwork.
I don't know if that will help. (?)
Thanks.
Anyone can be classified as any race. I can go into my personnel record online and declare myself Black, White, Asian, whatever - Who is to say that my ethnic background isn't what I claim it to be.(right now I'm - none of the above, but if someone really cared then they could just look at the photograph in my record and make an assumption)
I don't think your son's ethnicity will help or hurt. It doesn't matter...at least I hope not.
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I took my 20 year old son to the Navy Recruiter the other day to look at the nuke program.
My son has finished his 2nd year of college in an engineering program at a private university in Texas. It is extremely difficult but he is, so far, maintaining a 3.0 GPA.
He has $15,000 in government college loans accumulated and is feeling the pressure of maintaining grades and worrying about paying for college.
The recruiter gave him a practice ASVAB to see where he would score and he made an equivalent 95 (out of 99). The recruiter said that on the real test he will most likely make a 99. My son is also an eagle scout which the recruiter stated that it would automatically bump him to an E-3 immediately in boot camp.
The recruiter also stated that there could be an enlistment bonus of up to $15,000.00 but it couldn't be guaranteed.
Questions:
1) Is it possible to get loans repaid by Navy and get an enlistment bonus if he joins?
2) Is there anything else that my son should know before he signs the dotted line?
3) Is there any negotiation my son could make before signing the dotted line to help him get the maximum bonus and benefits?
4) Will he be challenged?
Thank you in advance.
Tell your son to seek out the nearest officer recruiter and ask about BDCP programs, particularly NUPOC if he's interested in nuke.
What is NUPOC? NUPOC is a bachelor degree completion program for potential nukes. Once accepted, they pay applicants E-6 salary + BAH + BAS until he commissions (google military pay charts and look up BAH for his college town), along with other active duty benefits (ie, healthcare). He will receive a taxable $15,000 sign-up bonus if he is accepted (which amounts to about $11k), plus a $2k taxable bonus upon completion of the nuclear training pipeline. He will have no military responsibilities until OCS other than to maintain his grades (3.0+), graduate on time, and check in with his recruiter once a month. He will not be randomly deployed, and his time in service will count as active duty time toward pay/retirement purposes. This is usually enough money for most college students to live comfortably, since it comes to $40-60k per year depending on location...much more than any college student I know makes. Your son could also still work part-time if he needs any extra money, although he really shouldn't.
The catch? If you decide that the program isn't for you, or if you attrite from OCS for any other reason than medical reasons (which you'd have to try hard to do), then you have to go to boot camp and serve 2 years as an undesignated enlisted Sailor. You also have to serve 5 years as a submarine or nuclear surface officer, which is oftentimes more demanding than the enlisted jobs...and enlisted nukes work a ton as it is.
Yes, enlistment offers college repayment bonuses, but if you crunch numbers regarding how much he'd earn as an officer vs. how much he'd earn as an enlisted Sailor over his 5 years of service, even including the loan repayment as enlisted pay, the money he'd make as an officer is still more.
The Navy also has other BDCP programs for other officer designators (SWO, pilot, NFO, etc), but they pay E-3 instead of E-6 up to commissioning.
Others have said it, but I will reiterate: recruiters are great at telling people everything that they "can" do while enlisted. The thing is, recruiters never really give people an accurate estimate of the likelihood of that happening. A lot of nukes apply to STA-21 out of the training pipeline (basically a NROTC program for enlisted Sailors that pays them their salary while they attend college. That time also counts as AD time toward retirement). To say that it is competitive is an under-statement.
Make sure your son understands this: If your son chooses to enlist, he should expect to put college on hold for the duration of his enlistment contract. $15,000 over two years is a drop in the bucket compared to other college students' debts. He should not make a hasty decision because money is tight.
Your son may still choose to enlist, but he should at the very least make an informed decision. There quite a few enlisted Sailors with degrees who would have applied directly to OCS had they known they could.
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Thank you for the replies.
My son meets with the enlisted recruiter today and he will hopefully ask to see the nearest officer recruiter.
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My son meets with the enlisted recruiter today and he will hopefully ask to see the nearest officer recruiter.
Anticipate that the enlisted recruiter will come up with some reasons why son wouldn't be officer eligible, can't find the officer recruiter contact info, pissy, or some combination thereof.
Good luck though! :)
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You are wrong.
I know many non-minority people that managed to get their commission via the BOOST program.
Man, I didn't know a single one.
BOOST was jokingly known as Blacks Only Officer Selection and Training Program while I was in the Navy.
Maybe they integrated that program later on.
Back in my Navy days - there was NESEP, which was dominated by nukes. By the late 70s, they closed it down.
There was also the Vietnam Era GI Bill - they dead lined it 12/31/89, when I had five years of eligibility left.
So you can't hang your hat on education benefits in the Armed Forces. Congress can change the laws without recourse for the veteran. I WOULD NOT encourage this young man to sign up for a promise of Educational Benefits.
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Thank you for the replies.
My son meets with the enlisted recruiter today and he will hopefully ask to see the nearest officer recruiter.
Asking the enlisted recruiter for the OR's contact info is like asking a chef for architectural plans. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but enlisted recruiters aren't the best at putting prospects in touch with OR's. Best case scenario is that you get a proper number. Worst case scenario is that he pretends to forward your son's info to the OR, and since your son never hears a response he decides to enlist. But it's not enlisted recruiters' jobs to play secretary for OR's or candidates who are too lazy to find information on their own. Their job is to get people to enlist in the Navy.
Peruse the Navy's website to find the info you seek.
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Spekkio is right, I found a great looking Navy site, It even has a flag to talk to a recruiter at the bottom, It has loan repayment programs, NUPOC, NROTC and other items, check this out.
http://www.navy.com/navy/joining/education-opportunities/undergraduate/
Hope this helps!! looks real good to me with amounts they can give and repay.
They also have live one on one chat to answer questions see hours below,
Navy Chat is a one-on-one, highly personalized forum that gives you the chance to ask a Navy expert questions about career opportunities, scholarships, Navy life and any other Navy-related subject matter. Before you enter the chatroom, please read the Chat Rules below.
Chat Hours
Monday, Thursday and Friday: Noon - 8:30p.m.
Tuesday and Wednesday: 3p.m. - Midnight
Saturday and Sunday: Closed
NOTE: Chatroom hours are Eastern Time Zone.
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I went the NUPOC route. Would be happy to answer any specific questions you have via PM.
Also, you typically must begin repaying student loans 6 months after graduation. This can be deferred for up to 3 years for active duty military service. By then he should be making more money and have some saved in the bank. I took advantage of this deferral. It's a great benefit.
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Update:
After my son talked with an officer recruiter over the phone he still wanted to go through the Nuke program.
He was supposed to have left this morning with the enlisted recruiter to take the ASVAB but was told that all nuke slots were filled this month.
So he will have to wait until June I suppose.
Could he talk with a recruiter in another city about joining this month?
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Trade,
That sounds a little peculiar to me... Unless they've changed things, they generally load up the nuke program for months to come. There should be no reason that your son can't take the ASVAB now, and then the NFQT... Following that is where the recruiter should look for openings in the pipeline, and tell him when he can go to bootcamp.
Having said that, if the pipeline is full in the near term, going to another recruiter wont help him get in any earlier, but he should be able to sign up now!
Good luck,
Bill
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Update:
After my son talked with an officer recruiter over the phone he still wanted to go through the Nuke program.
He was supposed to have left this morning with the enlisted recruiter to take the ASVAB but was told that all nuke slots were filled this month.
So he will have to wait until June I suppose.
Could he talk with a recruiter in another city about joining this month?
Hypothetically speaking of course... if I was a recruiter with a quota to fill in the next couple weeks, an eager Eagle Scout in my office wanting to sign something, anything right now BUT I couldn't get a nuke billet til June... I might be tempted to give this ol' speech.. "The bad news is, we can't get you a nuke slot til late June, good news is I have some 'pull' with District, and I can get you a guar-onn-teed slot in AECF like frickin' tomorrow, and then when you are classifying in Boot they will see you are on double-secret-standby for Nuke, see your ASVAB score and college credits and Eagle Scout merit badges and hook you right up for Nuke ET. Sound good there shipper? "
We've seen it happen right here in TechnicolorTM
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=13423.0 (http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=13423.0)
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"3) Is there any negotiation my son could make before signing the dotted line to help him get the maximum bonus and benefits?"
My son enlisted Nuke, had the opportunity to go to boot camp in August, but, waited to go in January when the enlistment bonus was higher. That was 2006. The enlistment bonuses change from year to year and quarter to quarter.
My son is in the STA-21 program. He is in Newport right now at NSI. He applied three times (years) before being accepted last fall. He worked his tail off; he is very driven to become an officer. He is attending The Citadel in August--three years to complete his degree, then flight school (Nuke to pilot). Good luck to your son.
I never served. I can tell you that the advice given on this forum by the military community (past and present) is worth it's weight in gold. None better on the internet IMHO.
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Hypothetically speaking of course... if I was a recruiter with a quota to fill in the next couple weeks, an eager Eagle Scout in my office wanting to sign something, anything right now BUT I couldn't get a nuke billet til June... I might be tempted to give this ol' speech.. "The bad news is, we can't get you a nuke slot til late June, good news is I have some 'pull' with District, and I can get you a guar-onn-teed slot in AECF like frickin' tomorrow, and then when you are classifying in Boot they will see you are on double-secret-standby for Nuke, see your ASVAB score and college credits and Eagle Scout merit badges and hook you right up for Nuke ET. Sound good there shipper? "
We've seen it happen right here in TechnicolorTM
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=13423.0 (http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=13423.0)
Well my son is not that desperate. He will continue with college unless he gets accepted in the nuke program.
I was just wondering if he would have a chance getting in if he talked with an enlisted recruiter in another city?
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No. Technically, a recruiter in another city can not work with your son. It is called "poaching" and is not allowed. Basically, he can only work with a recruiter in his home town or the town where he lives right now. He can't go to another area to work with a different recruiter.
If your son is having problems with his recruiter then he should talk to the recruiter about it. If the recruiter is unresponsive then he should talk to his supervisor. If the supervisor won't help then go to the supervisor's boss.
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Update:
Recruiter called my son this morning and said there was an open slot for MEPS this afternoon.
He is on his way to take the ASVAB.
I told him to make sure that the nuke school is IN WRITING before he signs a contract. ;D
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Update:
Recruiter called my son this morning and said there was an open slot for MEPS this afternoon.
He is on his way to take the ASVAB.
I told him to make sure that the nuke school is IN WRITING before he signs a contract. ;D
Good Luck, I'm sure he will do well.
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Update:
The recruiter brought my son home this afternoon.
He autoqualified for the navy nuke program HOWEVER he did not pass the lantern test(?) which tests for color blindness.
My son said he was given the lantern test the first time and didn't pass. The person administering the test said "oh you can use your glasses if you want". (My son only needs glasses for small correction for near sightedness).
He then took it the 2nd time with his glasses and didn't pass (but barely). The third time he did pass the lantern test.
But they average all three scores and it indicated he did not pass.
So, the navy recruiter told him that the nuke program wasn't an option but there was an opening for a non nuke Machinist Mate. The recruiter did say to me that he will see if there is some way to have him retested for color blindness with a civilian doctor. He will get back with my son next week to let him know whether this will be an option.
What I don't understand is how you can be a nonnuke MM while flunking the color blind test but you can't be a nuclear machinist mate?
Oh well.
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This is easy to explain. He can join as a non nuke machinist mate, because he is joining as one. He cannot join as a nuclear machinist mate because you only join as a nuke and are given your rate in boot camp. So to join as a nuke you have to meet all of the requirements for each rate. Even though a machinist mate can be colorblind an electronics technician cannot, it is needed to read various color codes on electronics.
That said, I have a friends who's son wanted to be a cop. Another job for which you cannot be color blind. He got corrective contact lenses to fix the problem. They were not cheap. Your son could investigate this if he really needs to.
Just a word of caution. If you son gets cleared by his doctor to enlist and gets to boot camp and fails the test. Tell him to take the discharge or else the navy can assign him pretty much anything. What they used to do, this happened to several guys that I went to bootcamp with, is they wait until a few days before boot is over. Then they tell you that you are medically disqualified. Then they give you this line about how you've already made it through boot so why throw it away. Then they say that if you let them out of your contract, they will see what they can do to get you what you want as another job. The kicker is you have to let them out of the contract first, so you are at their mercy.
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Update: recruiter called and said if he could get a civilian doctor to give him the test and he passes then he would be retested at another MEPS facility. If he passes that one then he would go to nuke school. ;D
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Update:
My son went to a optometrist yesterday and passed his version of a color blind test.
Now my son will get a second chance at another MEPs facility to pass the lantern test. ;D
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That's great news!
Remember the old saying, "Just because I'm losing doesn't mean I've lost." Good luck to your son!
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Good luck and keep us posted!
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Well the Navy recruiter wasn't able to pull any strings to have my son retested for the lantern test. So nuke school is out.
He did go to the MEPS facility yesterday to test for the DLAB. He scored a 96 which is not good enough.
Then my son spent 1 1/2 hrs being pressured to join the Navy. After they told him it would be a year until he could get to boot camp he told them NO for 1 1/2 hrs.
My son impression having visited both the NAVY and ARMY recruiter is that compared to the ARMY the Navy is unorganized.
My son will head to the ARMY recruiter to see what is available or head to the Navy's men's department (Marines) to see what is available.
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I spent the better part of 5 years trying to convince my baby brother to go Navy. He went Army. Now, every time I see him, he complains about how he should have gone Navy. Of course, my sister says we're both stupid for not going Air Force.
But at the end of the day, we're all on the same team.
Until December, that is, when Navy will be kicking Army's ass for the 9th time in a row.
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Well the Navy recruiter wasn't able to pull any strings to have my son retested for the lantern test. So nuke school is out.
He did go to the MEPS facility yesterday to test for the DLAB. He scored a 96 which is not good enough.
Could be worse....here's a picture of the MEPS in Ukraine...
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I was a Nuke Recruiter a couple of years ago and still have recruiter friends. Based on that some of you are right and wrong.
First off regarding the nuke officer program. Unless you are going to college for and Engineering program AND have at least somewhere ballpark of a 3.7 GPA or higher and at least 2 years of the college completed, you are NOT going to get in the program. Plain and simple. Many of you would be surprised, but there are many people out there applying for the program so it's highly competitive. Of note on that too is that you often have to have some significant non-academic accomplishments as well. Usually charity work and the like and not just a few hrs or a weekends worth.
Second being, there is no "fix" to the color blind requirement. You can't be color blind for any of the nuke jobs not just EM. Getting passed by a civilian doctor with a test that escapes me at the moment, you have a shot. Why they mentioned going to another MEPS is a little strange to me because more than likely your name will still pop up in the system (depending how far they put you into the MEPS system). Once you pass the civilian test, you automatically have to a nuke specific waiver which If I remember correctly is a Type II and therefore can take several weeks.
Thirdly, times have changed so although an enlisted recruiters primary goal is filling enlisted jobs, so many jobs are already over filled and have been for the last couple of years, that many enlisted recruiters have been tasked with funneling people to the officer recruiters.
And lastly, don't be misled by how you perceive the organization between the branches ESPECIALLY at the recruitment level. Each has their own systems and how things have to be done. Example being that a Navy recruiter can NOT tell someone that they qualify for a job or even if that job is available until they finish medical at MEPS and sit down with a classifier. The classifier is the only one who has access to job openings, see if the person qualifies for that job, and also reserve jobs. The Army on the other for example can go into much further detail right in the recruiting office because they have access to real time job openings. The catch is though that the Army (and I believe the Marines as well) can't give you a specific job but rather can gaurantee you a job field. They will talk it up like no other that it's the same thing but it's NOT. You won't find out your actual job until have signed the dotted line and left for boot camp. This is the biggest reason why the Navy seems a little more chaotic and is quite a bit harder for the recruiter. Hence most of the time a person will be sold on the Navy rather than on a job.
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I was a Nuke Recruiter a couple of years ago and still have recruiter friends. Based on that some of you are right and wrong.
First off regarding the nuke officer program. Unless you are going to college for and Engineering program AND have at least somewhere ballpark of a 3.7 GPA or higher and at least 2 years of the college completed, you are NOT going to get in the program. Plain and simple. Many of you would be surprised, but there are many people out there applying for the program so it's highly competitive. Of note on that too is that you often have to have some significant non-academic accomplishments as well. Usually charity work and the like and not just a few hrs or a weekends worth.
Second being, there is no "fix" to the color blind requirement. You can't be color blind for any of the nuke jobs not just EM. Getting passed by a civilian doctor with a test that escapes me at the moment, you have a shot. Why they mentioned going to another MEPS is a little strange to me because more than likely your name will still pop up in the system (depending how far they put you into the MEPS system). Once you pass the civilian test, you automatically have to a nuke specific waiver which If I remember correctly is a Type II and therefore can take several weeks.
Thirdly, times have changed so although an enlisted recruiters primary goal is filling enlisted jobs, so many jobs are already over filled and have been for the last couple of years, that many enlisted recruiters have been tasked with funneling people to the officer recruiters.
And lastly, don't be misled by how you perceive the organization between the branches ESPECIALLY at the recruitment level. Each has their own systems and how things have to be done. Example being that a Navy recruiter can NOT tell someone that they qualify for a job or even if that job is available until they finish medical at MEPS and sit down with a classifier. The classifier is the only one who has access to job openings, see if the person qualifies for that job, and also reserve jobs. The Army on the other for example can go into much further detail right in the recruiting office because they have access to real time job openings. The catch is though that the Army (and I believe the Marines as well) can't give you a specific job but rather can gaurantee you a job field. They will talk it up like no other that it's the same thing but it's NOT. You won't find out your actual job until have signed the dotted line and left for boot camp. This is the biggest reason why the Navy seems a little more chaotic and is quite a bit harder for the recruiter. Hence most of the time a person will be sold on the Navy rather than on a job.
Thanx, I hope you keep up with the Forums and contribute in the future.