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Author Topic: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?  (Read 33439 times)

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Cycoticpenguin

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Im still trying to make sense of this. What specific training do ET's get that allow them to manipulate rods vs the other nuke rates? As a mechanic I could qualify watch supervisor, reactor technician, and ultimately watch officer (in a round about way), but why never able to control rods?  There is probably some specific reason, hoping someone can shine a lot on it for me :D

now I know a couple of you older gentlemen were able to on your subs, what was the difference there?

drayer54

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #1 on: Apr 01, 2011, 09:47 »
Im still trying to make sense of this. What specific training do ET's get that allow them to manipulate rods vs the other nuke rates? As a mechanic I could qualify watch supervisor, reactor technician, and ultimately watch officer (in a round about way), but why never able to control rods?  There is probably some specific reason, hoping someone can shine a lot on it for me :D
now I know a couple of you older gentlemen were able to on your subs, what was the difference there?
1) Maybe it's a good thing you didn't manipulate rods  :P :-X :P
2) They took ETRO in NPS and qualified it in prototype, we learned how to spit Copenhagen into the corner when nobody was looking (No GC, we didn't actually do that, it's just to make a point  ;D)
3) I don't recall as an MM being able to qualify Reactor Technician, that would scare me just because of the cabinets I didn't know too much about.
4) We didn't get the theory of why behind it. We were taught pump curves and fluid systems. This actually makes sense to me, because of the difference in the pipeline. It's difficult to justify having us do things that we are not actually trained to do. This is also probably the most important watchstander in the plant, I wouldn't want someone who is thrilled to be standing watch in the A/C to be in charge of the rods.
5) I have heard enough submariners tell stories to know that they can do anything and everything. It probably didn't hurt that they didn't always have the man flying on the ship to keep an eye on the operation. I have also found submariners to be kind of like fisherman.... I love to fish and if I could to do it again, it would be as a sub guy.

*- Corrected
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2011, 10:50 by drayer54 »

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #2 on: Apr 01, 2011, 09:53 »
1) Maybe it's a good thing you didn't manipulate rods  :P :-X :P
2) They took ETEO in NPS and qualified it in prototype, we learned how to spit Copenhagen into the corner when nobody was looking (No GC, we didn't actually do that, it's just to make a point  ;D)
3) I don't recall as an MM being able to qualify Reactor Technician, that would scare me just because of the cabinets I didn't know too much about.
4) We didn't get the theory of why behind it. We were taught pump curves and fluid systems. This actually makes sense to me, because of the difference in the pipeline. It's difficult to justify having us do things that we are not actually trained to do. This is also probably the most important watchstander in the plant, I wouldn't want someone who is thrilled to be standing watch in the A/C to be in charge of the rods.
5) I have heard enough submariners tell stories to know that they can do anything and everything. It probably didn't hurt that they didn't always have the man flying on the ship to keep an eye on the operation. I have also found submariners to be kind of like fisherman.... I love to fish and if I could to do it again, it would be as a sub guy.

1) lol... soon enough I will be manipulating rods on a reactor that uses yours as a startup source ;)
2) Yeah I gathered that, however, I still dont understand why them qualifying electrical theory makes them the only people worthy of doing rod manipulations. You can qualify reactor technician as a mechanic, which is the supervisory watch station to the RO's... doesnt make sense to me...
3) you definitely can...
4) eh, you can argue level of knowledge and "whos #@% is bigger" all day. Id consider CRW just as important as RO.
5) yeah yeah. Theres been plenty of spats about it, and Im sure they arent lying about it, but that was many moons ago.

Still, I get the ETEO thing, but 1 2 month class just seems to be asinine to "know" how to control the plant.

drayer54

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #3 on: Apr 01, 2011, 10:15 »
4) eh, you can argue level of knowledge and "whos #@% is bigger" all day. Id consider CRW just as important as RO. . .
Still, I get the ETEO thing, but 1 2 month class just seems to be asinine to "know" how to control the plant.
In a worst case scenario, actions need to happen quickly and precisely which is not as true for a CRW who isn't actually performing the actions. As a former CRW, I know that it is important, but it doesn't even compare to the responsibility upstairs. A CRW screw up is much easier to fix than a worst case SRO screw up.
ETRO* isn't what teaches them to know how to control the plant, it's what lets them learn how to control the plant. Minor difference.

*- Corrected
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2011, 10:51 by drayer54 »

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #4 on: Apr 02, 2011, 09:19 »
First of all ETs take ETRO not ETEO.  ETEO is for EM's.

Secondly, the NPTU qual card is what really provides the difference. 

Additionally, the EDM provides specifc knowledge and practical factors that those qualifying RO (and EWS/EOOW/SRO) must know/perform.  MMs and EMs (outside of SRO) only have to meet generic requirements.

CM using Broadzilla-type language causes me suddenly to taste my own vomit.
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Offline MMM

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 02, 2011, 11:53 »
1) lol... soon enough I will be manipulating rods on a reactor that uses yours as a startup source ;)
2) Yeah I gathered that, however, I still dont understand why them qualifying electrical theory makes them the only people worthy of doing rod manipulations. You can qualify reactor technician as a mechanic, which is the supervisory watch station to the RO's... doesnt make sense to me...
3) you definitely can...
4) eh, you can argue level of knowledge and "whos #@% is bigger" all day. Id consider CRW just as important as RO.
5) yeah yeah. Theres been plenty of spats about it, and Im sure they arent lying about it, but that was many moons ago.

Still, I get the ETEO thing, but 1 2 month class just seems to be asinine to "know" how to control the plant.

3) On a carrier, a non-ET cannot qualify RT, as RO is a prereq. On a submarine, RT is the equivilent of our Instrument Watch, and is just a roving junior ET.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #6 on: Apr 02, 2011, 04:02 »
2) They took ETRO in NPS and qualified it in prototype, we learned how to spit Copenhagen into the corner when nobody was looking (No GC, we didn't actually do that, it's just to make a point  ;D)

FYI....I was a prior nuke MM (class 9106, Orlando, FL)  and a plankowner on CVN-73.  I know what goes on in the back corner when nobody is looking ;)
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drayer54

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #7 on: Apr 02, 2011, 04:54 »
I already knew he was an MM and LT on Mighty Warship Eisenhower, that wasn't why I said it....
I just wasn't sure if he remembered the little stuff. It's been awhile now...

 [dowave]

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #8 on: Apr 02, 2011, 06:34 »
MMM -> on my last carrier, there was no RO pre req for RT. They had to put in a request chit to qualify it though, so "could" is a possibility, "likely" is another thing all together ;). I dont know if its "supposed" to be like that, but it wasnt on my ship, you just had to have a "33XX nec" to qual it.  Im sure it would be a cold day in hell before a mechanic quald RT obviously.

Murray -> haha I was like "what are you talking about..." then i went reread my post and got a kick out of that :D

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #9 on: Apr 02, 2011, 06:41 »
Probably the same reason you can't go and manipulate reactivity controls at your plant.

Justin

Offline DLGN25

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #10 on: Apr 02, 2011, 08:05 »
Back in the day (1967-72), RO's were either ET's or IC's (Interior Communications).  These ratings had the training in electronic theory necessary for maintenance of reactor instrumentation.  On Bainbridge, those who where or would become RO's were in Reactor Controls Division, which was responsible for reactor operation and instrumentation maintenance and repair.  ET's first qualified as Reactor Technician, basically on the instrumentation and instrumentation alley watch, the secondary control of the reactor.  Once qualified as an RT, you were assigned to instrumentation maintenance and repair.  RO was the next, and final qualification for an ET.  To get there, you had to qualify on all engine room and control room watch stations.   You had to understand all the electrical distribution and plant cross connections.  You had to understand the interaction of everything in the plant.  Back then, the RO was the second in line watch under the Engineering Watch Officer. 

Do I think other ratings could have qualified as a RO, sure, but only if RT was out of the loop.

Oh, when you qualified RO, you also qualified as the senior shutdown watch.  I wish they then allowed the Electricians to qualify shutdown, it would have made the in port watch rotation a whole lot nicer.

And another thing.  I could draw and talk tech and theory on the valve op system, but man did I have a difficult time looking at the actual maze of piping and making heads and tails out of it. 

For the most part, being an RO was boring, the guy who worked his tail off was feed control during rapid maneuvering.
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Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 02, 2011, 08:07 »
4) eh, you can argue level of knowledge and "whos #@% is bigger" all day. Id consider CRW just as important as RO.

Sadly, some crusty Admiral at NAVSEA08 who hasn't stood the watch would disagree. Maybe you can write him and explain all of this to him.

Bottom line: It's just the Man keepin ya down. No other answer will suffice  :P

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #12 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:00 »
Sadly, some crusty Admiral at NAVSEA08 who hasn't stood the watch would disagree. Maybe you can write him and explain all of this to him.

Bottom line: It's just the Man keepin ya down. No other answer will suffice  :P

Lol its far beyond my realm of caring, just curious what people think or know.


Justin- > yes, but I do eventually have the option of doing so, whereas people in the navy have no way of doing said activities.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #13 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:07 »
Absolutely they do. When they are in a qual/training program requiring such things, like EOOW/EWS.

Justin

drayer54

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #14 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:53 »
Lol its far beyond my realm of caring, just curious what people think or know.


Justin- > yes, but I do eventually have the option of doing so, whereas people in the navy have no way of doing said activities.
You care you super diggit you... Don't lie! >:(
Opportunities tend to be greater outside than in the Navy in many ways, this one is no exception. Justin was right though. (as for my top opportunity I have been missing out on
The slow pitch softball opportunity is coming soon   8) )

Also PM me the name of any MM who qualified RT, I am still skeptical of this.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #15 on: Apr 03, 2011, 06:51 »
Amen to that, I qualified at D1G, I loathed those feedwater control valves during drills,...

There was a "touch" to running that station, I never quite got it mastered during my prototype tenure, and it has always bothered me that I didn't,...

One had to sort of play it by ear i.e. anticipate the rate of change of valve position by the different hisses of the air leaking from the Hagan cabinet. A real treat when the  [censored] circuit is failed, and the ship is pitching and rolling between S/G high and low level alarms while valving manually...

drayer54

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #16 on: Apr 03, 2011, 11:53 »
One had to sort of play it by ear i.e. anticipate the rate of change of valve position by the different hisses of the air leaking from the Hagan cabinet. A real treat when the  [censored] circuit is failed, and the ship is pitching and rolling between S/G high and low level alarms while valving manually...
I still remember the day very well that we got rid of our Hagan air cabinet. We hated that thing because of the trouble it caused us and the complete pain in the butt that it was to work it.
We stood together as a plant and held our covers to our chest in silence as they rigged it away.... Quite the moment. Nobody missed it......
The new system is much better.

Amen to that, I qualified at D1G, I loathed those feedwater control valves during drills,...

There was a "touch" to running that station, I never quite got it mastered during my prototype tenure, and it has always bothered me that I didn't,...

I would write a letter volunteering to stand some watch so that you can (unless this is one of the long gone proto's) and explain to them that it is on your bucket list. Identify yourself in the letter as a "Great American"....
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2011, 11:56 by drayer54 »

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #17 on: Apr 03, 2011, 12:29 »
Absolutely they do. When they are in a qual/training program requiring such things, like EOOW/EWS.

Justin

a watch officer or watch supervisor will never touch rods unless they are an ET or UI, and thats kinda my point here  ;)




JustinHEMI05

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #18 on: Apr 03, 2011, 12:43 »
a watch officer or watch supervisor will never touch rods unless they are an ET or UI, and thats kinda my point here  ;)





The same is true in the commercial world. You won't touch them unless you are in a qualified training program or have a license. I don't get your point. Who cares? Not sure why you do... even though you said you don't... but you asked so you do.

Justin
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2011, 12:57 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Marlin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #19 on: Apr 03, 2011, 12:52 »
a watch officer or watch supervisor will never touch rods unless they are an ET or UI, and thats kinda my point here  ;)

   Conversely, an ET never touches a rod unless there is a an EOOW/EWS present. Primary plant samples and analysis are done only by ELTs with just a reader present. I don't think either is beyond the capability of other watch standers, it is simply better to keep some critical functions (no pun intended   [whistle]) limited to a few watchstanders to keep the skillset sharp. At one DOE site I worked the chemical operations and  maintenace management kept as many people qualified as fissile material handlers as possible to accommodate scheduling and production. After a number of minor infractions that number was cut way back to ensure that that those handling fissile material were proficient.

"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." D.M.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #20 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:07 »
The same is true in the commercial world. You won't touch them unless you are in a qualified training program or have a license. I don't get your point. Who cares? I certainly wouldn't want some stupid mechanic moving my rods.

Justin

ARG! lol. A mechanic in the navy will never have the ability to touch rods. NLO's, RP tech's, FIN's, MT's, I&C techs can ALL move up to become a rod manipulator (after the appropriate training). Id say this is equivalent to ONLY NLO's being allowed to become an RO.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #21 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:09 »
Like I said in my edited post, who cares? Besides you? Like Marlin said, some things are NEC specific.
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2011, 01:15 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #22 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:48 »
Id say this is equivalent to ONLY NLO's being allowed to become an RO.

That's the path that all those you mentioned will HAVE to go through at most plants.  We had a few go directly to RO training a few years back but none of them are still there and I believe that all of them had prior NLO experience.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #23 on: Apr 03, 2011, 01:54 »
That's the path that all those you mentioned will HAVE to go through at most plants.  We had a few go directly to RO training a few years back but none of them are still there and I believe that all of them had prior NLO experience.


That is true, all the other groups CM mentioned, they would all have to go through NLO.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Is there a specific reason only ET's can manipulate rods?
« Reply #24 on: Apr 03, 2011, 02:53 »
That is true, all the other groups CM mentioned, they would all have to go through NLO.

half of our instants are from engineering and RP with no NLO experience. Not trying to start a cock fight here, just wondering whats going on. Who cares? No one. Merely scratching an itch.

Seems like the answer is "because I said so", and Im ok with that, just wondering if there was something Father Rickover did to make these things the way they are.

ELT's go through a separate 6 month schooling to get their NEC, where the ET's seem to go plug and chug right along with us, if theres something there I didnt see, so be it :D

 


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