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Offline Longhornfan

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Entry level pay after Navy
« on: Mar 07, 2007, 07:41 »
(This was split from another thread. It really belongs under "Getting out". RT)



Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

Sounds to me like you just don't like being told what to do...so don't worry too much, once you fail out of NPS (if you even make it that far...I have my doubts) and get sent back to the civilian world you won't have to listen to anyone anymore...er...scratch that, it is just as bad out here so sounds like you are s**t out of luck my friend.

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K...lol...you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

Grow up...grow some nads...and tell your recruiter what things you can do and what things you have a problem making and why...I am sure if you are both adults you can work things out so that all the requirements are met.  You have a rude awakening coming your way my friend...good luck with that.
« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2007, 03:07 by Roll Tide »

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #1 on: Mar 07, 2007, 10:15 »
I've edited your post for language, please keep an eye on it in the future.  Thanks in advance.

As far as making 80 to 100K after doing the 6 years that's not too far out of line if you do a little searching on the civilian field.

Most of all, Thanks for your service to our country.  It is appreciated. 
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Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #2 on: Mar 07, 2007, 11:05 »
I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K...lol...you guys kill me. 

Like the 6 year chiefs, it is rare. I certainly didn't fall directly into a position like that. But I did see a classmate at Turkey Point: he get out of the Navy at the 5.5 year point, started AUO class while on terminal leave. If he had completed the AUO class, he would have been making about $80K after 18 months on site (7 years after HS graduation). (He jumped the fence to Radcon, and made $80K anyway after 24 months on site.) Certainly not the norm, but if everything lines up just right...

But the EMCS is right in the fact that you will have to build up a tolerance. There are days you will have to be a "healthy mushroom". Pick your battles!
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M1Ark

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #3 on: Mar 08, 2007, 07:38 »
Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K...lol...you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!


This is true.... what makes it so funny?

Floydbob

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #4 on: Mar 08, 2007, 11:52 »
I got out after six years and now make over $100K.  The opportunities are there.

Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #5 on: Mar 08, 2007, 12:22 »
Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

 

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K...lol...you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

 

What's so funny about that? Lots of guys and gals are making over 80K by about their second year out after doing 6 years. And that first year they're not doing all that bad either.

Mike

Rad Sponge

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #6 on: Mar 08, 2007, 12:45 »
I concur that it was not a far fetched idea to get out and make over 80K.

It most likely won't happen the first year (could happen though).

Get some quals under your belt, be useful, be motivated, be energetic, and the OT will be there for you.

I am assuming the 80K-100K does include the OT.

Offline Longhornfan

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #7 on: Mar 08, 2007, 02:47 »
I may be dead wrong (yes it has happened before) but unless I have missed an entire class of jobs made available for 6 to 8 year navy nukes getting out then my research over 10 years or so says the average salary you can expect (in and out of the nuke industry) is somewhere between 35K and 55K to start.  I do not count overtime in that because it is not guaranteed money.  I know there are exceptions to that but for most I would lay odds on being in that ballpark.  Enlighten me please to this plethora of 80 to 100K jobs out there because I know a LOT of ex nukes who would love to know about them and a few soon to be ex's as well.

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #8 on: Mar 08, 2007, 03:01 »
Like I said, it is like the 6 year chiefs (I saw quite a few Chiefs when I was in with only 1 hash-mark, but under 7 years is REALLY fast). Not counting OT is the way to go; otherwise you count on it. On the other hand, the OT built into the schedule is quite secure.

Starting salaries for AUO jobs are now in the 40-50K range, but within 2 years should be 55-70K straight time (depending on the utility and cost of living in that area). With a few people retiring at my current plant, there are now many $100K AUOs (OT included). There are a few EOOW qualified and / or degreed ex-Navy nukes walking into an SRO training class, making $80K salary to start (no OT paid). Within 3 years they will be just over $100K. Again, these are the exceptions and not the rule. I sure didn't do it that way (though I have made over $80K many of the years I have been in commercial nukes, and could have made it more times with extra OT).


I will have to start a new thread and sort through some of these posts, since they are irrelevant to the "dep bs recruiter" in the original post. Since I was involved in it, I can't complain too loud...

And if I haven't mentioned it to you specifically, thank you for your Sub service Sr. Chief.
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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #9 on: Mar 08, 2007, 04:19 »
I would say the higher starting pays are proportional to areas with higher costs of living so you have to compare like denominators when comparing job salaries across the country from one nuke plant to another.

You also have to factor in tangible relocation benefits (mine were quantified at 50,000), stock performance, bonus potential, etc.

You also have to compare and contrast all the pipelines from sea to private employment. There is the AUO/NLO path, the instant SRO path, chemistry path, HP, QA, IC, maint, etc.

Each path will garner a different rate based on demand, geographic/demographic, and other factors dripping down from the management bean counters.

My base was over 60K when I started as a chem tech, however I work in Maryland which is expensive. 60K goes further I'm sure in Bumbleville, IA, but I probably would have started at 40-50K there. When I took that crappy job with Tyco as an HP I was brought in at 58K in Missouri and that was salary, and they were a bunch of condecending monkey poops, but I digress.

My current company has performance based step increases within each pay grade and does annual cost of living adjustments, and performance based incentive awards. All in all my base has improved since starting.

I think it all boils down to the person what they make getting out of the Navy and the flexibility to move to where the jobs are and the motivation to do well once there.



Offline Longhornfan

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #10 on: Mar 08, 2007, 05:33 »
Thanks for the answers...I think we all are basically in agreement even if we don't really know it.  :P

I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

1.  Not coming out with a degree.  I would hope and encourage them all to do so but the reality is there is so many things to keep you busy on ship that not many have the desire or the will power to put in that much extra time and effort.  Big Kudos to those who do.

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.

3.  Not going to instant SRO.  The requirements I have seen around the country for instant SRO (and even these are rarely used it seems) is a degree (see note 1) or a Navy Senior or Master Chief qualified EOOW, EWS, or PPWO.

4.  Not qualified EOOW...most likely not even EWS though there are a lot of junior PO1s and even a PO2 or three out there who do.  EOOW quals is only available at prototype and usually that is a tour most take after they have re-enlisted at least once for it...so minimum 8 year then.

The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #11 on: Mar 08, 2007, 06:54 »
My belief is the only people qualified to really post in this thread are those who have worked in BOTH worlds.

To say you cannot count on OT is a misstatement as most utilities have at least 1 Refueling outage a year and the last I checked almost 45% of your hours worked are OT during that period. Also most sites are on 12 hour shifts. There's built in OT.

Put it this way, in 17 years in the commercial world I haven't seen too many NLOs not earning around 80K UNLESS they chose not to work OT, which again is their choice. In the Navy they don't have that option so I cannot think why any well qualified person would stay in after their 6 year point.

Mike

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #12 on: Mar 08, 2007, 08:09 »
Dang skippy its realistic. And soon to be on the low side. People can make whatever they decide they need in this industry.

I am a contract SRO Instructor and an NRC Examination author. I actually see more money coming on in the instructional side because these utilities have gotten too lean and too mean with too old a workforce. All these mistakes in an era soon to see new plant construction.

Insiders have recently indicated to me that as soon as September 2007, we'll see South Texas pony up for ABWR construction. Imagine a new plant coming on in 2014. They need three Cold License Classes complete to start up. Those License Classes need to start in 2009. To build a simulator, an INPO accredited Training Program, and modify the KA Catalog to accommodate licensing operators on a new BWR Type - they're 2 years behind TODAY. This requires staff.

You'll see the grab starting in late summer, much of this workforce will be incumbent BWR SROs bought with tall six figure green money. That will create vacancies and rising salary demand at all US BWRs.

Stand by. You heard it here first.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #13 on: Mar 08, 2007, 10:24 »
Thanks for the answers...I think we all are basically in agreement even if we don't really know it.  :P

I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

1.  Not coming out with a degree.  I would hope and encourage them all to do so but the reality is there is so many things to keep you busy on ship that not many have the desire or the will power to put in that much extra time and effort.  Big Kudos to those who do.

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.

3.  Not going to instant SRO.  The requirements I have seen around the country for instant SRO (and even these are rarely used it seems) is a degree (see note 1) or a Navy Senior or Master Chief qualified EOOW, EWS, or PPWO.

4.  Not qualified EOOW...most likely not even EWS though there are a lot of junior PO1s and even a PO2 or three out there who do.  EOOW quals is only available at prototype and usually that is a tour most take after they have re-enlisted at least once for it...so minimum 8 year then.

The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

I think your research is just a little off. Recently, three coworkers NOT senior chiefs or master chiefs (E6s) but qualified EOOW walked into instant SRO classes. I am a 9 year E6 ELT EOOW with one instant SRO offer so far, interviewing for another, and one maintenance supervisor offer. You aren't the first upper level chief to say that those jobs are kept for you guys and above, which just isn't true. What I do agree with is that MOST 6 and outers won't walk into huge paying jobs off the bat, especially if they did nothing to further their career in that 6 years like qualify EWS. But I am not the expert here, I am just speaking from what I am seeing guys leaving here with.

Justin

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #14 on: Mar 08, 2007, 10:26 »
Oh I forgot to mention that none of the 3 E6 instant SROs had degrees. All three are currently working on them on their company's dime.

Justin

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #15 on: Mar 08, 2007, 11:21 »
I don't think its false advertising to speak about these lucrative positions.

They are out there. Period.

I also think OT should be considered because I can't think of any civ nuke hourly job getting done with straight 40s.

Sure, don't count your chickens before they hatch, but come now.

However, I will stress to all you newbies out there with delusions of grandeur:

You better align your career so you are on shore duty before getting out and if that means doing 8, then so be it. Its pretty tough scoring a job while on a Westpac. Can it be done? Sure, anything is possible.

Then you have to consider that license classes start on a cycle, so timing is everything. You may be unemployed after getting out while awaiting HR reps to get back to you.

Also, from my experience, HR does not bring in new people near or during an outage because they are busy inprocessing contractors, so either get in early in the year or you'll be wating to late Spring depending on the outage schedule.

I'll let the operators elaborate on how liscense classes are scheduled.

So another facet to this story is that "Zero K is also realistic upon discharge".

You have to be deliberately planning your strategy from day 1.


M1Ark

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #16 on: Mar 09, 2007, 06:29 »
I may be dead wrong (yes it has happened before) but unless I have missed an entire class of jobs made available for 6 to 8 year navy nukes getting out then my research over 10 years or so says the average salary you can expect (in and out of the nuke industry) is somewhere between 35K and 55K to start.  I do not count overtime in that because it is not guaranteed money.  I know there are exceptions to that but for most I would lay odds on being in that ballpark.  Enlighten me please to this plethora of 80 to 100K jobs out there because I know a LOT of ex nukes who would love to know about them and a few soon to be ex's as well.

My base pay in 1994 after getting out with 5 years and 10 months in was $40k.  I made $61k in 1994 as an NLO.

Base pay for an NLO today should be about $60-65k. 
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2007, 06:34 by M1Ark »

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #17 on: Mar 09, 2007, 07:07 »
Ok I jst retired after 23 and started as an NLO, my "base pay" is 54,000 and some change for basicallythe first year while I train and get qualed.  Note this will involve no over timeduring the first year. Once qualed the "base pay" will jump to about 62,000 and change, but again that is without overtime.  In reality once I start quals (next Jan) I will get overtime becasue of the rotating 12 schedule I will work or one week(4 days) will be 48 hrs and the next (3 days) 36, yes we only work 7 outof "10 work" days!!  This averages to (8*1.5= 12hrs+40+36= 88 hrs a week) so pay will be about 64000 without working any over time (any extra that is).  Now consider that every 10 weeks, because of rotation I will have 7 days off in a row (twice!!!!!) and mix in some 3 and 4 day offs amd I think you can see that maybe working a few extra days will not be so bad, and at about $500 (based on 1.5 time for 12) for a 12 hr extra day I will likely do a few here and there.  Of course this does not count outages where you work 3 on and 1 off for 4 to 8 weeks (based on outage length) so those months checkin at about 10K each.
All in all the 80-100K is realistic after you qualify NLO (about 1 to 1.5 year in my company) and you will work a "little" over time.  At my plant there are many operators who make in that range (one made 110,000 last year).  Of course there is always the potion of going Ro and SRO down the line and the money there is BETTER.

So your answer is YES!!!!!!!     
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

jobsandwich

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #18 on: Mar 09, 2007, 07:41 »
In commercial nukes, everyone works overtime, not everyone gets paid for it! If you take a salary position up front you won't make 80-100k. It could take years. If you take an hourly position up front you will make 80-100k in 2 years or less. Most hourly nukes earn more money than their supervision. The private sector also doesn't care who you were in the military-unless you're an engineer-they consider you easily trained to meet their needs, that doesn't relate to extra money or prestige of which there is none (prestige that is) in nukes.

jgpwest

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #19 on: Mar 09, 2007, 08:14 »
It really matters more where you are making 80-100K in relation to the cost of living.  If you make that in S. California you really aren't that well off.  Making 50-60K say at Beaver Valley in a low cost of living area is better than making 80K at Turkey Point a significantly higher cost of living area.  It is all relative to where you want to work.  Just something to think about.

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #20 on: Mar 09, 2007, 09:05 »
I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.


The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

EOOW is much more important in the selections than E-8 or E-9. 6, 8, and 10 year Navy vets may even have an edge over a retired Sr. or Master Chief.

I think an entire command structure trying to downplay outside opportunities to the guys they are trying to get into a STAR or subsequent re-enlistment program is much more unfair than the discussion of $80K. Which do you see more?  ::)
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Offline Longhornfan

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #21 on: Mar 09, 2007, 09:43 »
Like I said I don't know all the specifics on opportunities.  The E-8/9 requirement came straight off of the FPL website recently though they do not have a current open posting for Shift Supervisor on it that I can link.  That is not the only site I have seen it on but I am sure that it all depends on the company.

I don't recall ever putting any pressure on anyone to re-enlist or not re-enlist during my time in the Navy and I always tried to give a balanced view of what was available....but I am sure there are many stories that differ from my own.

As for the state of affairs atm I can't say as I have been retired and working in the civilian industry (not nuclear) for almost 6 years and so don't have a lot of recent info to go on.  I  have been recently looking for a move back into the nuclear side so most of what I base my opinions on is from opportunities I have seen in my search and talking to various people during my travels....most recently at Turkey Point.

I will concede that after a year or two 80 to 100K is probobly the norm for commercial nuke plants.  Thank you all for the lessons.  See...old dogs still can learn new tricks sometimes.  ;)

M1Ark

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #22 on: Mar 09, 2007, 08:38 »
Like I said I don't know all the specifics on opportunities.  The E-8/9 requirement came straight off of the FPL website recently though they do not have a current open posting for Shift Supervisor on it that I can link.  That is not the only site I have seen it on but I am sure that it all depends on the company.

I don't recall ever putting any pressure on anyone to re-enlist or not re-enlist during my time in the Navy and I always tried to give a balanced view of what was available....but I am sure there are many stories that differ from my own.

As for the state of affairs atm I can't say as I have been retired and working in the civilian industry (not nuclear) for almost 6 years and so don't have a lot of recent info to go on.  I  have been recently looking for a move back into the nuclear side so most of what I base my opinions on is from opportunities I have seen in my search and talking to various people during my travels....most recently at Turkey Point.

I will concede that after a year or two 80 to 100K is probobly the norm for commercial nuke plants.  Thank you all for the lessons.  See...old dogs still can learn new tricks sometimes.  ;)

I happen to know some specifics about FPL.  They state Retired Chiefs on their posting but that was created by HR folks that do not know what they are talking about.  The plants hire based on the resume and the individual and what you are quoting as fact is a boiler plate FPL ad. 

I've heard your rhetoric before and it sickens me.  The point we are making has been stated in a previous post.  A qualified nuke w/ 6 years in needs to start looking at developing his career with REAL experience.  Staying in the navy to get that coveted Chief, EOOW or Thomas Edison or Regents degree is BS and only serves to retard your real career on the outside. 

We have all said that in 1 to 2 years that young baby nuke will be making $80-100k.  If he got out at the 6 year point he'd be compared to another sailor w/ 8 years in looking to make Chief. 

Another 2 years and both would be at the 10 year point and the navy guy is looking to gain more quals for the coveted Senior Chief position and is making sure he is working towards his degree and EOOW quals.  The happier civilian guy is in RO license class looking to make 90-110k. 

Lets advance this timeline to their 14 year point.  The Navy guy is looking at LDO and or Master Chief opportunities and the Civilian guy is sitting in SRO license class and looking to knock down 130k plus. 

Let's advance to the 19 year point.  The navy guy is a Master Chief or LDO and looking on Monster.Com and various other websites and see's FPL is willing to hire him in as an SRO instant @~ 87500 starting and he is excited at the propect.  The civilian guy has BEEN an SRO for about 6 years and has just been offered a job as Assistant Operations Manager @ ~ 150k and is interviewing this E-8/E-9/LDO and wondering if he is anything like the blowhards he used to work with in the canoe club.

Bottom line EMCS.  Who is doing these kids a dis-service?  Being a hot-runner in the navy past your 6 year point is futile.  Be a hot-runner where you can actually get somewhere.
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2007, 08:54 by M1Ark »

Offline Len61

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #23 on: Mar 09, 2007, 08:42 »
Ahmen Brother!

Rad Sponge

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #24 on: Mar 09, 2007, 08:57 »
Ahmen Brother!

I tend to side with MIARK on this one.

I was caught in the middle at my nine year point with an injury and a choice between staying in an struggling to advance after catching up on quals lapsed due to med hold or take a chance and get out.

I got out and today I received my first civilian bonus and there was no paperwork requiring me to promise to be a loyal employee for 6 more years.

However, let's not get into a khaki vs. 6 and out flame war. If it hadn't been for my injury I'd be some sort of khaki right now, no doubt. I would have continued my service for the joys I found in the Navy which was a combination of money, pride, duty, honor, and midrats (corn dogs are a blessing).

You are taking a risk in or out, but hey, what's the point without risk?

JsonD13

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #25 on: Mar 09, 2007, 09:07 »
So what combination of education and experience would be beneficial for a 80-100K job salary?

I'll be getting out at my 8 year point with two M.S.'s, one in Engineering Management and one in Radiation Health Physics.  Oh yeah, my only B.S. is the Thomas Edison Degree.  What do you guys think this could fetch me (salary figures for a job in ops/maintenance/hp)?

Just looking at the power side of the house, I was thinking medical too.

Jason

Rad Sponge

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #26 on: Mar 09, 2007, 09:18 »
So what combination of education and experience would be beneficial for a 80-100K job salary?

I'll be getting out at my 8 year point with two M.S.'s, one in Engineering Management and one in Radiation Health Physics.  Oh yeah, my only B.S. is the Thomas Edison Degree.  What do you guys think this could fetch me (salary figures for a job in ops/maintenance/hp)?

Just looking at the power side of the house, I was thinking medical too.

Jason

Good job with the education.

The degrees will help you move up (I hope). I think you are going to find that your hourly wage will be the same as a 6 and out (maybe a little higher) if you take the NLO path.

Without sounding too raw, you are either going to be an over educated tech or an engineer with no commericial experience.

Finish your CHP and cha ching.

Put in a year or 2 of solid work ethic and you will most likely be on a management path.


Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #27 on: Mar 09, 2007, 09:23 »
JsonD1e you already have the paper you need, the question is if you can back it up with effort and come across well on ajob interview.  If you do then you will be okay for one of these positions.  Starting at mid 50-70's will depend on plant location but all thingsare about the same when you throw uin the cost of living difference between the higher paying places.

As for staying in the extra 14 or so years to retire I would not knock it to much since as JMK said there are lots of reasons to do it and even the guy who gopt out and started right off  with good money would have a hard time matching the life long medical and 25-30K retirement that starts the month you retire!

Rob
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shayne

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #28 on: Mar 10, 2007, 10:49 »
I will concede that after a year or two 80 to 100K is probably the norm for commercial nuke plants.  Thank you all for the lessons.  See...old dogs still can learn new tricks sometimes.  ;)

I don't think it is limited to commercial nuke plants either.  Considering most power plant operator jobs pay just about the same (w/ some cost of living adjustment for area) and this is about $1-2/hr less than the nuclear jobs.  So we are talking about $2k-5k less per year 40 hour week. 

As for staying in the extra 14 or so years to retire I would not knock it to much since as JMK said there are lots of reasons to do it and even the guy who gopt out and started right off  with good money would have a hard time matching the life long medical and 25-30K retirement that starts the month you retire!

Rob
 

I would have to agree that retirement is good.  You just have to be willing to stay the extra 14 years.  I didn't have the desire to stay another 10 just because I no longer enjoyed the 'quality of life' that being stationed on ships has.


Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #29 on: Mar 10, 2007, 12:12 »
M1Ark,

Well said my man.

Mike

MinnNukeRecruiter

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #30 on: Mar 12, 2007, 11:36 »
So what combination of education and experience would be beneficial for a 80-100K job salary?

I'll be getting out at my 8 year point with two M.S.'s, one in Engineering Management and one in Radiation Health Physics.  Oh yeah, my only B.S. is the Thomas Edison Degree.  What do you guys think this could fetch me (salary figures for a job in ops/maintenance/hp)?

Just looking at the power side of the house, I was thinking medical too.

Jason

I'm in a similar boat as you are Jason. I've been reading these posts for the past few days and have a couple additional questions.
A little background: MM E-6 EWS, currently living in the dark side of the Navy (recruiting) as a Nuke Field Coordinator. I do alot of tests and screening interviews and waivers to make more nubs in the world, but it's all moot point here. I just finished my Thomas Edison BS degree, and I was looking into the MS in Eng. Mgmt but the school I was planning on going to canceled that degree path. So I'm at a crossroads... My knowledge in the commercial world is limited, but can someone give me a little description of the hierarchy of these new terms? Is SRO the highest on the operational side? and is NLO the lowest, more like entry-level position?


Thanks for your time guys, it's a community like this that makes me feel like getting out is not a bad idea after all.

Chris
« Last Edit: Mar 12, 2007, 11:41 by MinnNukeRecruiter »

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #31 on: Mar 12, 2007, 12:55 »
As far as I know, every plant now has an NLO program that is entry level OPS. Next up the line is RO or Reactor Operator (UO or Unit Operator or even RCO Reactor Controls Operator).
SRO is the highest licensed position, but there is still room to advance above that. Shift Manager is the SRO in charge of the site in the absence of plant management (sounds more impressive than it is in these days of cell phones and pagers).

After a stint as Shift Manager, many choose an off-shift position in Training or OPS Support; others choose promotion on up the line. Chain of command is Ops Sup (Supervisor or Superintindent) then Ops Manager. To get to Ops manager, you will probably need the M.S. (but it would help to get to Ops Sup).

Some of these things have been discussed in detail elsewhere.
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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #32 on: Mar 12, 2007, 06:47 »
To get to Ops manager, you will probably need the M.S. (but it would help to get to Ops Sup).

Some of these things have been discussed in detail elsewhere.

Not true from my experience. My current Plant General Manager has a HS Diploma and was a Navy Nuke.  Every plant is different.  Some are run by Navy Nukes, some by Engineers and some from local folks that were home grown starting out as plant helpers.  It depends on the personality of the specific plant.

You have enough experience and education to do whatever you want in nuclear power.  The MS will help some but not alot until you get to Site VP level.

Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #33 on: Mar 12, 2007, 08:36 »
As a former DTE Energy SR VP (and a very good one at that) was fond of saying, all you need is an Associates and an SRO License. He had no Navy experience, an associates degree in Business Management and a BWR SRO license. He was respectively a PM, Asst VP, VP. Sr VP and a Corporate Sr VP. Did a great job at all of those jobs too. So far as I know I've never worked for an OM who had an MS.

Mike

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #34 on: Mar 13, 2007, 06:58 »
My current Plant General Manager has a HS Diploma and was a Navy Nuke. 

When I was at Turkey Point (same utility that M1Ark is referring to) my Ops Manager interviewed for Plant Manager. From the discussion I had with him, the utility believed INPO expectations were for the Ops Manager and above to have a Master's. (As a condition for him taking the position, he had to enroll in an external Master's program and complete it within a certain date)

There is an ebb and flow to these cycles. TVA once (early 1980's) stated the expectation that NLO had A.S., RO had B.S., and SRO had Master's; they even had arrangements with a college to provide the sheepskin partially based on the corporate training.

There is a lot of degree inflation, with the external MBA programs so abundant. I would like to see a more reasonable level as a requirement, but having extra should be a benefit in the future.
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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #35 on: Mar 13, 2007, 09:50 »
There is more to life than the homegrown power plant that has a guy with a high school diploma running it. Get a MS degree, overall you will make more money during your life time-its a known fact.  Besides what if somebody determines that you need more than a high school diploma to run a billion dollar complex?  I think there is more to that story than presented.  Maybe he dont run the plant but really just occupies an office- in that case a HS diploma will work fine. More than likely the HS guy went to officers school and nuke engineering- which is more than HS diploma

Offline Len61

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #36 on: Mar 13, 2007, 11:03 »
[ Besides what if somebody determines that you need more than a high school diploma to run a billion dollar complex?  I think there is more to that story than presented.  Maybe he dont run the plant but really just occupies an office- in that case a HS diploma will work fine. More than likely the HS guy went to officers school and nuke engineering- which is more than HS diplomaquote]
From my experience it's the VP in the front office that "just occupies an office", the home grown guy on the other hand (be he ex navy or not) grew up at the plant, knows how it works, and does the best that he can to run the plant in spite of coroprate interference.

M1Ark

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #37 on: Mar 14, 2007, 12:01 »
There is more to life than the homegrown power plant that has a guy with a high school diploma running it. Get a MS degree, overall you will make more money during your life time-its a known fact.  Besides what if somebody determines that you need more than a high school diploma to run a billion dollar complex?  I think there is more to that story than presented.  Maybe he dont run the plant but really just occupies an office- in that case a HS diploma will work fine. More than likely the HS guy went to officers school and nuke engineering- which is more than HS diploma

All good theories, alphadude.  Now say something you KNOW.

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #38 on: Mar 22, 2007, 12:35 »
As a former DTE Energy SR VP (and a very good one at that) was fond of saying, all you need is an Associates and an SRO License.

I bet someone else would have to make the tough calls. Like "OPS is $1 Million over budget for the year in OT due to overstaffing"  :o

(And you didn't see a need for an MBA!)


I recently looked at the state of GA site for college search stuff ( www.gacollege411.org  if anyone is wondering) and saw they considered Nuclear Reactor Operators to be paid $60K. That isn't as much as a topped out AUO makes with TVA (no OT included)!

Bear that in mind as you are considering your resources

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Offline Limited Quanity

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #39 on: Apr 02, 2007, 04:57 »
(This was split from another thread. It really belongs under "Getting out". RT)



Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

Sounds to me like you just don't like being told what to do...so don't worry too much, once you fail out of NPS (if you even make it that far...I have my doubts) and get sent back to the civilian world you won't have to listen to anyone anymore...er...scratch that, it is just as bad out here so sounds like you are s**t out of luck my friend.

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K...lol...you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

Grow up...grow some nads...and tell your recruiter what things you can do and what things you have a problem making and why...I am sure if you are both adults you can work things out so that all the requirements are met.  You have a rude awakening coming your way my friend...good luck with that.

Dear EMCS,
Figured you and I probably got in about the same time.  But unfortunately, I was one of those Nuke drops you were referring too.  Just so you'll feel better tonight sleeping, I'm on shift at one of those commercial power plants protecting the employees here and the general public in the vicinity of our plant nestled snug in their beds.

I lucked out I guess.  Ended up with my NEC 9591 before leaving the Navy, worked hard too, but I guess lucky too.  Lucked out like JMK said on another post and stayed in while AS-32 went to GITMO and guarded a PET (tank).  Managed during the time to get out 111 resumes to various utilities.  Landed another great government job and they didn't even want to interview me, sight unseen, lucky I guess.

They don't ask much of me though out here since I flunked out of Nuke school.  Once in a while I get asked to escort the NRC resident and his tour group or INPO inside the RCA because frankly I don't know why.  Once in a while we have what they call a refueling outage and they ask me if I want to be one of those Shift Supervisors, you know tell people what to do and know these things called procedures so that we do it right, I don't know why.  I even get to help send Radioactive Material over our nations highways, sometimes I even have to talk to these guys in the black suburbans with really tinted windows and they are really nervous too. Especially the one that sits with all the computers and tracking equipment, maybe because I didn't make it in NPS, I don't know why.

I'm glad you and I got to laugh about them dumb old Nuke drops.  You said you were thinking about jumping back over in the the Nuke side, come on over.  Maybe you'll luck out and I'll get to sit in on your interview board, they do that sometimes, I don't why.  There's plenty $ for everyone.  Why over the last 6 years since you've gotten out I've made only $616K during that time.  Seems like I even turned down some overtime because I don't know why. 

One thing that I have learned in this business and it's a funny business.  You always treat those who work for you as per the old "Golden Rule".  You never know when the guy who worked sometime for you now might be the guy your working for in the future.  That's funny, and I don't know why.

Many regards,
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Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #40 on: Apr 02, 2007, 03:51 »
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rad Sponge

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #41 on: Apr 02, 2007, 09:15 »
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I concur, that was worth a Karma.

There should be a bonus program where at one time during the year and in only one session you can give someone 1000 karma points in one click.

ggratecc

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #42 on: Apr 12, 2007, 04:49 »
It really matters more where you are making 80-100K in relation to the cost of living.  If you make that in S. California you really aren't that well off.  Making 50-60K say at Beaver Valley in a low cost of living area is better than making 80K at Turkey Point a significantly higher cost of living area.  It is all relative to where you want to work.  Just something to think about.

This is my first time posting... I've read some of the posts here to aquaint myself.
I'm a former EM1(SS) Nuc.
Feel free to ask me any questions.
Greg
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2007, 08:53 by JMK »

Offline Marlin

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #43 on: Apr 12, 2007, 08:05 »



I'm surprised that Mike hasn't replied yet. Go to the jobs tab follow "employer" to post positions.

JMK note: All taken care of.

Thanks
« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2007, 08:54 by JMK »

visserjr

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #44 on: Apr 18, 2007, 07:58 »
OVERTIME GRUB 8)

Aldo

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #45 on: Apr 23, 2007, 08:42 »
As a ExNuc I’ve worked in this industry since 1979. Built power stations and torn them down. I would recommend that you pursue an education in the engineering field(s) after your out of the Nav. Never worked directly for a utility, but I’ve had them as customers for years. The money will still be there and you’ll be able to go just about anywhere. If you go fulltime (year around) you can probably knock it off in three years or less. Or work and go at night but that takes time (8/12 years). In any case once you have the paperwork it’s yours for ever. I wouldn’t worry about the money, my experience is that you can make excellent money in this industry with had work and a determined attitude. Good luck!

rlbinc

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #46 on: Apr 23, 2007, 10:40 »
You really don't need a degree in this industry.
Simple competency is such a rare commodity, that you can write your own ticket with a large amount of initiative.
I have taught - and attempted to teach plant operations to esteemed men of letters. Not always successfully.

Just be smart. You'll make it.

Rad Sponge

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #47 on: Apr 24, 2007, 04:11 »
Here is one last nugget of opinion and insight from me:

This thread had developed around the assumption that you will remain in the technical portion of nuclear power upon discharge and remain there for a career: OPs, Chem, HP, Maint, Planning etc.

As was mentioned before, these jobs don't necessarily require traditional college degrees in order to advance. In these cases, the degree is nice to set yourself apart from your fellow brilliant peers when its time to advance. IMHO.

But, what if you wanted something else?

What if you wanted to enter the business development end? Finance? HR? There you will find many analysts with financial degrees, BA/BS-HR, communication, MBAs, etc. Many of these people are not nukes, but traditionally trained corporate analysts with traditional degrees making the decisions that trickle down into how you operate within the company. There are some nukes, but I have found the majority of HR and Business is non-nukes.

These are basically the coners of the company.

That's all I am saying for now.

And yes, 80-100K is realistic upon discharge....within a year or 2.


menichols74

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #48 on: Apr 24, 2007, 02:08 »
I don't know about anything but SRO training pipelines, but this is what I've found out so far (looking to get out of Navy in Dec 07).

TVA (government)
Start 75K/yr
SRO license (18 months later): 105k/yr

Average Private Utility
Start ???
SRO license (18-24 mo later): 135k/yr

Don't flame me for this, this is just what the TVA recruiter is telling me and what a headhunter is telling me. I don't know about the other positions in operations or engineering.

Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #49 on: Apr 24, 2007, 02:58 »
I don't know about anything but SRO training pipelines, but this is what I've found out so far (looking to get out of Navy in Dec 07).

TVA (government)
Start 75K/yr
SRO license (18 months later): 105k/yr

Average Private Utility
Start ???
SRO license (18-24 mo later): 135k/yr

Don't flame me for this, this is just what the TVA recruiter is telling me and what a headhunter is telling me. I don't know about the other positions in operations or engineering.


Your figures for TVA are off. You won't be making 105 K a year when you get your license.

Also in a Private Utility you'll be making about what you will at TVA Base. Your research is WAY off.

Also it's gonna take you longer to license at TVA. The program itself is set out to be longer. Another thing, you won't start SRO training right away as you have to have 6 months MINIMUM onsite before starting the program, Average time with TVA is 9 months to a year.

I've worked in both sectors AND I've hired in both sectors so I think I have a decent idea as to what I'm talking about.

Mike

visserjr

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #50 on: Apr 24, 2007, 08:10 »
Well said mike. I personally am not in an SRO pipe line, but there are a couple at my plant. And yes 6 month Minimum is required by the NRC. As far as the private industry SRO's at my plant 135K/year sounds more like Shift Manager 20+ years. Heck there are RO's at my plant make more than some SRO's just due to OVERTIME. I am on track to make 80-90K this year, and I haven't really worked that much overtime, and that doesn't include outage money(SIGH) 8), or take into account we are going to 12 hour days.

jorji

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #51 on: Jun 06, 2007, 07:17 »
Ok, so how about this situation??

MM2 ELT getting out after 6 years (no LELT experience or anything like that). I have an interview for a chemistry job and I'm not sure how much to ask for if they bring up salary in the interview. If you ask for too little, they think that you don't think you're worth much, and you may end up getting paid less than if you had asked for more money. But, you also can't ask for too much, or they think you are being unrealistic. So, what is realistic to ask for? As an E-5, I make base salary of $26000 (very roughly), but with allowances, it's probably between 45K and 50K total for the year. The job I am going for is a company in Virginia that does water and metal testing, and they are getting ready to add a radiochemistry lab.

Any advice would surely be appreciated. Thanks.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #52 on: Jun 06, 2007, 09:48 »
Its all about not putting all your eggs in one basket.  Make sure you have other options so you don't have to take this job. For instance, I know how much money I want to go back to a house job (not a contracting job), and it is very high, so high the likelyhood of me being offered a house job that pays that much is fairly low unless my situation changes.  My point is part of the reason you can even ask for "more money" is because you have some amount of experience that gives you knowledge of the job market you are in, and are in a stable enough position so you don't have to take it.  if you really want that job, then take it.  If you don't then don't take it.  So in my position, I would ask for 45 bucks an hour TO START with 4 weeks vaca and they would tell me "thanks for your time". But I like to contract.

I know you can easily make over 30 bucks an hour at most nuclear plants as a chem tech after a couple years.  So maybe ask for 25$ an hour?  But I don't know how bad you need the job, i don't know how much you like the company, i don't know the standard of living in the area, I don't know alot of things.  if you are in a position where you need this job, you may just have to take what they give you. I certainly wouldn't take any less then 20$ an hour period, unless you really want to live right there....

Its not about figuring out if the money is worth it in an arbitrary fashion based on the "chem tech job marker", think about the offer and if it is enough money for you to live on and if you like the job and the area. Then compare it to your other options (you do have other options, don't you)?


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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #53 on: Jun 06, 2007, 10:07 »
Very well said, hamsamitch -- and right on the mark.
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Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #54 on: Jun 06, 2007, 01:18 »
There's no harm asking. If it's a Union Job it's a moot point as you'll get whatever the contact says you'll get.

Mike

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #55 on: Jun 06, 2007, 01:43 »
Hi Jorji.  I know here at our plant that they bring in people to go through sign offs and OJT that they start at about $44K.  You do get progression raises during the time after certain modules are competed.  After ward when you are signed off and can stand shift by yourself you would be looking at $62K roughly.  I'm certain that all cases are somewhat different.  If they already consider you a senior tech, you would come in much higher than the $44K.  We have a opening now that will close on June 24th for chem techs.  We also have a posting for HP's too that closes the same date.  I'm not sure this helps.  It depends if your going in as a junior or senior tech. 
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LaFeet

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #56 on: Jun 07, 2007, 06:50 »
Wow   what a difference...

Ok  I never made chief (drinks required for the reasons), never qualified EOOW..... and made over 80K out of the Nav on my first year.  Since then I have only made more, especially as a carnie now.

Is it hard to make that much... yeah, I hate being away from the family.  Did enough of that on the boats.  But the pay is great if you don't mind the work.  And with my blue card.. I don't need to worry about all that medical crap. 

80 - 100K is out there, and easily attainable.  Just find it.

OCnuke

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #57 on: Jul 21, 2007, 09:13 »
I havent seen it listed anywhere but what about QA jobs at a civilian plant. I still have a couple of years before i get out but ive heard stories of getting paid pretty well for jobs on the outside that would be the same as some of our collateral duties. right now im training and gage cal but soon to be qai guy on my boat and just curious about it. I'm still debating switching career paths completely but i'd like to keep my options open. thanks in advance for replies.

Fermi2

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #58 on: Jul 21, 2007, 09:28 »
QA in a commercial plant is not what you think it is. And coming straight out of the Navy you don't come anywhere near qualifying for the job.

Mike

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #59 on: Jul 22, 2007, 12:32 »
But being a QA guy and a Navy nuke would make you look good for an entry level position in the QA department at many nuc plants. Of course you won't be qualified to be a QA guy at a nuc plant before you get there and get some experience.  My buddy Bob E down at st. lucie was an ELT and our QA guy on the boat.  He just gave up his QA job at st. lucie to be a project manager.

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #60 on: Jul 22, 2007, 07:38 »
I still have a couple of years before i get out but ive heard stories of getting paid pretty well for jobs on the outside that would be the same as some of our collateral duties. right now im training and gage cal

Gage cal is all performed by I&C department. If you are ET, that is a definite possibility. But since most indication is meters, actual gage cal is just a sideline for an instrument guy. No provisions for the best gage cal guy in M-Div to cross over. Sorry, just my experience.

Training is definitely a possibility. You will have to get instructor certified and do at least a prototype but preferably NNPS tour. I ran across my old MTMO instructor. He quickly moved up the training ladder.
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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #61 on: Jul 28, 2007, 05:41 »
Chip, no soliciting for jobs. It is not fair to the companies that purchase banners and space on the Jobs board.

I have edited your post.

Peace,

Jason
« Last Edit: Jul 30, 2007, 12:12 by Nuclear NASCAR »

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #62 on: Jul 28, 2007, 05:49 »
I think the answer to this question is this:

Yes, it is realistic, but you must be flexible in relocating, willing to work a crap ton of OT as scheduled or on a voluntary basis.

Once you get some time and quals under your belt, you can make this as your base salary.

A degree helps.

The Operations path is usually the most lucrative path for a guy or gal fresh out the Navy. Depends on the plant, though.

For Junior Officers, I have met many that are Plant Operators. Plant Operators make good money and in my reality, the operators and techs make much more than the Engineers or similar age.

My first year with only a few quals I made nearly 80K. Find a plant that is hurting for bodies and you will find a plant with lots of OT and Shifts to cover.

This year I will go over 90K. By the time I am fully qualled, I won't even have to try hard to go over 100K.

Its all relative to the needs of the plant.


Offline nowhereman

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #63 on: Jul 29, 2007, 09:40 »
rather than asking is 80-100k realistic...........try how much time do I want to spend at work?

Offline Limited Quanity

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #64 on: Jul 30, 2007, 12:00 »
rather than asking is 80-100k realistic...........try how much time do I want to spend at work?

That depends on what your reference point is?  What do you call alot?  No matter where you work in the commercial field you'll be subject to outage periods.  That's a given for most jobs. 

These days with typical 25-30 day outages its fast and furious but over before you know it.  A little hetic before getting ready and the clean up afterward.  If your like us and work a variation of the dupont schedule, a 5 wk 12 hr/day rotation with a built in training week, you get quite a bit of time off. 

If you have your quals, your base salary is 65-70K , 8 hrs of built in OT 4 of every 5 rotations, outage OT, holidays, shift differential,,, and anyother perks your company may have,,, it's definitely achieveable.  We work 19 days and get 16 days off a rotation.  Take a vacation week during the training week and we get 14 days off for 5 days vacation time, what I'm doing right now.  Flipping from nights to days is the only problem I usually have.  Getting time off and making that kind of money hasn't been a problem.
I used to be a lifeguard until some blue kid got me fired.

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #65 on: Sep 28, 2007, 05:06 »
8 years for me and out. MM1(SS), qualed EOOW. Started at 90k base (salary). Instant SRO. This doesn't take into account that you are getting paid 2/3 of the 18k annual licensing bonus while in ILT class, yearly incentives, shift differential pay, or OT during outages. I'm guessing I will gross around 110k my first year. So, yes, it is certainly out there, as many others have said. Just my .02 to add to the pile.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #66 on: Sep 28, 2007, 11:51 »
Sounds like the oyster creek deal :)

Justin

caerbannog

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #67 on: Sep 29, 2007, 01:07 »
I bet someone else would have to make the tough calls. Like "OPS is $1 Million over budget for the year in OT due to overstaffing"  :o

(And you didn't see a need for an MBA!)
Which is laughable when they tell us how much the plant makes each day in profit.

I recently looked at the state of GA site for college search stuff ( www.gacollege411.org  if anyone is wondering) and saw they considered Nuclear Reactor Operators to be paid $60K. That isn't as much as a topped out AUO makes with TVA (no OT included)!

Bear that in mind as you are considering your resources
It might get that low if they sat in the training center and pulled 32 hour weeks all year.

Offline RodBottom

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #68 on: Sep 29, 2007, 10:57 »
Sounds like the oyster creek deal :)

Justin

Well...Exelon. But I'm in Chicago.   ;)

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #69 on: Sep 30, 2007, 12:07 »
Well...Exelon. But I'm in Chicago.   ;)

Is that braidwood? A buddy of mine from prototype just went up there.

Justin

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #70 on: Sep 30, 2007, 12:23 »
Is that braidwood? A buddy of mine from prototype just went up there.

Justin

Yep, I am up here with a few guys from Protoypes, both SC and NY.

Offline Imaginos

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #71 on: Nov 15, 2007, 12:28 »
I will work or one week(4 days) will be 48 hrs and the next (3 days) 36, yes we only work 7 outof "10 work" days!! This averages to (8*1.5= 12hrs+40+36= 88 hrs a week)
I only took two college level math classes, but I'm pretty sure your description and equation come to 88 effective hours in two weeks, or 44 hours per week...and as I recognize that his reply comes eight months after your post, how is the commercial world treating you?
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JohnK87

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #72 on: Dec 03, 2007, 03:25 »
The current job market is so hot, you should be able to do better than entry level.  Some plants are hiring control room supervisors right out of the Navy (EOOW qual officers mostly) at good pay.  I know we are hiring maintenance supervisors right out of the Navy.  Spread your resume around and take the best opportunity out there.

Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #73 on: Dec 03, 2007, 03:53 »
The current job market is so hot, you should be able to do better than entry level.  Some plants are hiring control room supervisors right out of the Navy (EOOW qual officers mostly) at good pay.  I know we are hiring maintenance supervisors right out of the Navy.  Spread your resume around and take the best opportunity out there.
Which plants would be doing that?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #74 on: Dec 03, 2007, 06:44 »
Which plants would be doing that?

Palo Verde for one.

Justin

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #75 on: Dec 04, 2007, 11:15 »
Which plants would be doing that?
Any one that doesn't pay very well.  Even the crappiest pay out here attracts Navy guys.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #76 on: Dec 04, 2007, 12:45 »
Any one that doesn't pay very well.  Even the crappiest pay out here attracts Navy guys.

What do you consider crappy pay? Any pay > Navy pay = good pay to me. But, I don't think nearly doubling my navy pay is "crappy" espescially if I am "entry level." Then again, I could be missing something since like any nub, I wouldn't know I was missing it until it was too late.

Justin
« Last Edit: Dec 04, 2007, 12:49 by JustinHEMI05 »

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #77 on: Dec 04, 2007, 05:11 »
Crappy is all relative dude.  One man's floor is another man's ceiling.  But, I see that you get my point.  Entry level is not something to be shunned.  It starts with good and gets better from there.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #78 on: Dec 04, 2007, 05:59 »
Crappy is all relative dude.  One man's floor is another man's ceiling.  But, I see that you get my point.  Entry level is not something to be shunned.  It starts with good and gets better from there.

Fair enough. You probably think what I get is crappy LOL. :)

Justin

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #79 on: Dec 04, 2007, 06:55 »
BeerCourt, it's time to put your money where your mouth is.  What do YOU consider crappy for a guy getting out?  How much do YOU make?  I know those are some personal questions, but if you're not willing to justify your opinions, then maybe I should reconsider the weight I give your opinion.

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #80 on: Dec 04, 2007, 08:24 »
Marssim, maybe it is gauche, but that was kind of the point.  I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, and I really don't think BeerCourt is going to tell us all how much he makes.  However, I will point out that I simply came here to ask relevant information, and in typical internet fashion, was immediately ridiculed.  I would like to think that BeerCourt knows what he is talking about, but for all I know he's some 13 year old kid living in his mom's basement, too.   Maybe I overstepped some bounds by asking the question, but I really would like to know what he thinks is crappy.

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #81 on: Dec 04, 2007, 08:36 »
honeycomb,  I get what you mean about being off topic.  I guess I'm just a little oversensitive now that I'm looking for jobs in the real world and am actually having to experience rejection when it comes to getting what I want in a job.  Sounds like I have a lot of new lessons to learn about employment.  And BeerCourt, if you are still checking this thread, I still would be interested in what you think, and didn't mean to be offensive.  I'm typically a pretty good protagonist, and it seems you know a thing or two about pushing my buttons already...................... ...maybe a new rivalry brewing? ;D

Offline cincinnatinuke

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #82 on: Dec 04, 2007, 08:57 »
So an E-5 at 6 years makes 2323.80 a month.  Sea Pay at 4 years is 300 a month.  Sub pay is 275 a month.  Norfolk BAH is 1232 a month.....I am assuming this sailor is married or has dependents.

Lets say insurance would cost him about 100 a paycheck, so 200 a month.  So lets just round up and call it 4500 a month.  I know BAH isnt taxable and insurance costs vary but this gives us about 26 bucks an hour or 54k a year.  Depending on how you look at this or who sees this number will determine the response.

Crappy is relative to the sailor getting out and to the position applied for.  I am sure a Sr RCT could bank 26 an hour, but he/she is pulling probably north of 400 hours of OT in a year, so that skews that number a but.  An NLO could make that too or a chem tech and a host of other people.

Why dont you start by telling yourself, privately, what its going to take to hire you.  Not just dollar signs but all factors.  Hold true to that number, assuming here, and you will likely exclude a lot of jobs you are qualified for.  The RCT, NLO, the chem tech can make some serious dough, but we/I have to work a metric butt ton of hours to do it.  But just because you exclude them doesnt mean I or someone else wont work them.

I think that is all BC is trying to convey.  The pot at the end of the rainbow doesnt have the same amount of commas and zeros for everyone.  It is still good money, and we are all pretty fortunate to say maybe 54k aint for me.  I think there is something better.

Lets face it, you could raise a family on that and probably be JUST AS HAPPY as you were in the Navy.  I guarantee it. ;)

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #83 on: Dec 04, 2007, 09:52 »
Precisely!
No pay is "crappy" if you can live well on it.  Anybody getting out of the USN should not be surprised if he does not immediately double his pay, but he is going to have to deal with only working 84 hours a week or less.  The extra time on his hands may drive him to drink. :)

Like I said, it is relative.  $22/hr plus bennies is royal in Arkansas, but $35/hour is not going to get you a lot of house in San Clemente.  However, (there is ALWAYS a however) if you are a single dude who lives to surf and isn't concerned with a high standard of living, that $35 is enough.

How much do I make?  More than I thought I ever would and less than I can find ways to spend.  I make more in two weeks than I made my first full year in the Navy (including BAQ ans BAS).  I make approximately what my efforts are worth.  Sometimes I make a lot less than I earn: sometimes I make more than I earn.

In the end, it makes no difference how many dollars one takes home.  What matters is the quality of the life that one lives.


"So an E-5 at 6 years makes 2323.80 a month.  Sea Pay at 4 years is 300 a month.  Sub pay is 275 a month.  Norfolk BAH is 1232 a month....."

Being in the same country as your kid when he learns to walk....PRICELESS!!
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #84 on: Dec 04, 2007, 10:38 »
honeycomb,  I get what you mean about being off topic.  I guess I'm just a little oversensitive now that I'm looking for jobs in the real world and am actually having to experience rejection when it comes to getting what I want in a job.  Sounds like I have a lot of new lessons to learn about employment.  And BeerCourt, if you are still checking this thread, I still would be interested in what you think, and didn't mean to be offensive.  I'm typically a pretty good protagonist, and it seems you know a thing or two about pushing my buttons already...................... ...maybe a new rivalry brewing? ;D

Seth,

I am concerned with your second sentence. What exactly were you expecting in a job? Perhaps it is better left for PM at this point, but I think you might need to lower your expectations a bit (that sounds worse than I actually mean it). Here is the current NLO class at my plant (I know the break down because I taught their math and physics);

One RPI nuke engineering degree (you knew him)
2 Physics degrees
1 chemistry degree
2 ME degrees
And 1 EE degree.

There are a bunch of other non degreed people too.

The biggest thing to remember is, no one is waiting at the gate to hand you a 6 figure + job. You aren't going to get hired into higher than instant SRO/maintenance supervisor. No one is looking for an enlisted nuke getting out with an RPI degree to run the joint.

Justin

« Last Edit: Dec 04, 2007, 10:45 by JustinHEMI05 »

Offline Ops Nub

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #85 on: Dec 05, 2007, 03:39 »
would you consider 55K-65K good in SC for a fresh out of the navy Jr HP?
Jay

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #86 on: Dec 05, 2007, 08:51 »
would you consider 55K-65K good in SC for a fresh out of the navy Jr HP?

I would consider that money good for ANY Jr. HP.  Most Jr.'s make around $16/ hr and work about 20 to 25 weeks a year.  They're lucky to pull in $40k.  If you are including per diem in this, wee need to talk.
If you are an ELT or RCSS, you should be a Senior HP.  Naturally, different plants classify their techs differently.
However, if this is a 'house' job, you aren't in the same boat with the regular "Junior" HP's.  THe money is good.  Enjoy it.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #87 on: Dec 05, 2007, 04:45 »
All, thanks for the input.  I'm going to be frank here even though I probably shouldn't.  I basically am not willing to walk away from my current job without making a comparable take home pay.  I know the quality of life may be better/different in most jobs, but I have to quantify that somehow.  Since I won't know exactly what a new job is like until I work it awhile, the only factor I can have any control over is the pay portion.  Like has been said many times, the Navy will keep me if I can't find other work that I like.  You guys can figure out how much I make if you really want to, but ultimately it boils down to this (call it arrogant if you want, but that's not how I mean it), I am an experienced operator and leader, with 13 years of proven ability to learn and safely operate a Navy PWR, I am middle management at my current job, and I have taken the initiative to get a "good" B.S. in Nuclear Engineering.  I don't expect to start out as an Operations Manager, but I also don't expect to be treated as if I just fell off of the turnip truck simply because I haven't worked civilian power for a while.  If I can't start as an instant SRO, or a comparable job making ~ $72K a year, then I might as well stay where I am.  It seems that everybody here is not willing to talk about specifics when it comes to money, and I don't really see the point.  I'm a pragmatist.  If the company I interview with doesn't want to pay me, then I won't accept the position.  But at the same time I would like to know what "good" is for someone in my position.  It's not like I can take the info I receive here into an interview to try to force someone to pay me more than I'm worth. :-\

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #88 on: Dec 05, 2007, 06:04 »
number41,
I've read your post.  I retire a year from now (24 and 1/2 years) as an E-9.  I never intended to stay this long.  I almost got out twice.  I left my first boat that I hated and went to shore duty with the intention of finishing my degree and getting out at the nine year point.  I calculated my pay and allowances and figured I would have to make about $29.00 per hour to sustain the standard of living I was making at the time as an E-6 in the Orlando, FL area.  As luck would have it I made Chief and added three years to my commitment to get paid for CPO.  After three more years at sea as a Chief, I liked my job better; but decided to get out at my 12 year point.  I went to TAP.  They all looked at me like I was nuts, but I had enough of the family separartions and working for guys who thought they were more important than the Navy.  I got hired by Intel about 4 months from my EAOS, with a start date three weeks after my EAOS.  I did more calculations, Intel would be a big pay cut, but had great medical and other incentives that would make up for the lost hourly wages (We decided my wife would be stay at home mom until we were back on the mainland and my kids were in middle school).  After much soul searching I re-enlisted again thinking about the benefits of  a 20 year retirement and that about half of my remaining 8 years would be on shore duty.  While on shore duty I accepted orders to the SSN 23 which required an extra two years due to new construction.  This was fine with me because it allowed me to stay in until my kids graduated from high school and would get me stationed in Washington, a place I always dreamed of getting stationed at.  Out of the blue I made E-8 on the 8th try but could still get out at my 22 year point unless I could get shore duty in a place near my kids' college.  All of a sudden, I make E-9 and can't pass up the extra retirement so I stay in an extra 3 years (all on shore duty).  As it turned out I spent two days in Washington but got to stay in Groton where my wife had a decent job and I was reasonably close to my daughter's college.  Did I make the right decision? I don't dwell on it because I made a decision with the information I had at the time.
     I know an ETC who just retired and got hired at a plant near Rochester, NY for Constellation Energy (I think).  He's in training to be a trainer for operations.  He didn't get a degree.  He got hired the same time as an E-8 (Post-EDMC, 26 years + degree) and E-9 (Post-EDMC, 24 years, not sure about degree).  He got hired in the mid-seventies I think.  The other two were in low 80's based on their experience and degree.  After the first battery of exams, he's going to be put on a pay scale that will accelerate his raises to put him in the same ballpark as the other two because he's done very well compared to his more experienced peers.  Many people will tell you can easily make up the retirement differential if you get out now. I'm not qualified to answer that, but if you hate the Navy get out.  If you like the Navy, please stay in because we are starving for people who lead and get our ship's to sea with minimal "drama".  I didn't mean to tell you my life story, but I feel like I made some of the gut-wrenching decisions you're facing right now.  My apologies to the rest of the nukeworkers.  I don't want to tick you off becuase I will be asking for advice in the coming weeks and months.
   
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline tr

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #89 on: Dec 05, 2007, 06:47 »
number41,

I have two comments that may be of use.

First, a lot of resumes are electronically processed, with the system looking for keywords - especially the keyworks listed in the job opening listing.  Keep this in mind as you write your resume.

Second, with a BS in engineering, and 13 years of experience you should be able to do well in the engineering area.  More than 72k sounds pretty reasonable. 

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #90 on: Dec 05, 2007, 06:53 »
I agree. 80s is definitely doable. People are probably hesitant to talk numbers because the numbers are different for everyone. I can tell you via email or pm all of the numbers I was offered since yours will probably be similar. I will say they were all >80. If you want to know specifics, email call or pm me.

Justin

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #91 on: Dec 05, 2007, 07:03 »
I give up.  I've tried to post a response twice in the last couple of minute, but to no avail.  Anyway, the gist of the scenario is this: 

subnukederek:  I appreciate your recruiting efforts!  I definitely am prepared to stay in if need be, but I don't love it anymore and am ready for a change.  I WILL stay if I feel that I need to, but I do not forsee that as a problem.

As far as my other comments have gone, I stick by my actions.  I'm not here to piss people off, but I have an agenda:  I am networking and I need information.  BeerCourt may be looking to catch me in a dark alley soon, but I really am trying to do the right thing.  I know it may be "gauche" to ask about money, and it may not be the best idea for me to look at someone else's resume.  But I am new at this.  Furthermore, I suspect that there are lots of other people out there that want to ask the questions that I ask, but do not for some reason.  Finally, I don't see what the big deal is.  I'm just asking for information.  I don't see why people are afraid to give honest answers to honest questions simply because it is a public forum.  If BeerCourt were to tell me that he thinks a "good" salary is $180K a year, it's not like I can go use that to strongarm an employer into paying me that amount.  I'm just facing obstacles and trying to figure out how to conquer them.  Anybody see a problem with that?

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #92 on: Dec 05, 2007, 07:34 »
Jason,
  I'm not here to demand answers.  I really am looking for help.  But if I'm honest, I can tell you that several people have confirmed that there is a definite group of civilians here that do a very good job of making new guys feel unwelcome and unqualified to get work in a civilian plant.  Maybe that is just perception, but you know what they say about perception.  Anyway, I understand that some of these guys may have been burned by ex-Navy nukes that have too good of an opinion of themselves and wash out of instant SRO classes, but that doesn't mean that when I am here to ask questions and get help that I should be minimalized because I don't have the same amount of experience as others.  Moreover, this attitude is one of the reasons I'm leaving the navy, and it smacks of insecurity.

Kev3399

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #93 on: Dec 05, 2007, 07:36 »
As far as my other comments have gone, I stick by my actions.  I'm not here to piss people off, but I have an agenda:  I am networking and I need information.  BeerCourt may be looking to catch me in a dark alley soon, but I really am trying to do the right thing.  I know it may be "gauche" to ask about money, and it may not be the best idea for me to look at someone else's resume.  But I am new at this.  Furthermore, I suspect that there are lots of other people out there that want to ask the questions that I ask, but do not for some reason.  Finally, I don't see what the big deal is.  I'm just asking for information.  I don't see why people are afraid to give honest answers to honest questions simply because it is a public forum.  If BeerCourt were to tell me that he thinks a "good" salary is $180K a year, it's not like I can go use that to strongarm an employer into paying me that amount.  I'm just facing obstacles and trying to figure out how to conquer them.  Anybody see a problem with that?

I've been following this thread and it seems to have done some twisting and turning........

I commend you on getting your questions out there and answered, but....

Go out and interview and interview and interview some more. You'll get a good feel for the pay range you're looking at. There is a huge difference between pay at certain plants and location. Some stuff I never figured out.

Example:
A friend of mine at prototype interviewed at X Plant. Was given X ILT offer. 3 weeks later I interviewed for the same position and was offered the same ILT offer but 8K less. Both of us had identical naval careers and quals. Sub and Surface was the main difference. So why was my offer less??? Never figured it out. Never asked. Wasn't the ideal location for me anyway. I was just interviewing to interview. Expanding my options for the ultimate decision.

Moral of the story.......Go out and see what they're gonna give you. Then compile your data and make a decision. Its time to put the rubber on the road for your job search. Butting heads and posting on here is just gonna confuse you and you might end up reenlisting.  :o

number41

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #94 on: Dec 05, 2007, 07:47 »
Kev,
  See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!





Modified for language content.  Honeycomb
« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2007, 07:48 by honeycomb »

Kev3399

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #95 on: Dec 05, 2007, 08:05 »
Kev,
  See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!

Modified for language content.  Honeycomb

I follow you......but I never knew what the $$$ were until I had offer in hand. There is a huge range. Go interview and get the data black and white on paper. All these guys are going to do is step on you here when it comes to this topic.

I'm giving you the best advice I can.......Go find out. I was disapointed with one offer because I liked the location, but the pay wasn't there compared to other offers. I was skeptical too.....I had options. It was weird......No pay charts.....No COLA.....I have to pay state taxes!!!! I don't know which one is better!!!!!!!

I know where you are coming from.

Also....who ever said that this first job after the Navy will be your only job until you're old and wrinkled? You have options now. You're not tied to an uneven and biased paychart. Go interview and make the best decision for your family.

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #96 on: Dec 05, 2007, 08:40 »
Number 41,

A quick check of an E-7 retirement at twenty years is about $1800/month which is COLA protected from inflation for the rest of your life.  This equates to about $1.6 million over the next 40 years.  Hard to beat anywhere and only 7 years away for you.  Doing the RADCON math (and a lot of assumptions here for simplicity), this is over $200k of lifetime retirement income for each year you stay in the Navy.  Just a thought to consider.  However, if you are that unhappy with your present employment, perhaps you can get orders somewhere else or go ahead and separate. 

You seem to be a smart ambitious guy.  I am convinced that no matter what job you have, you will excel at it and your salary will reflect your value to the company.  Managers who interview you likely have interviewed many other people and have a keen eye for talent.  You will probably be offered a salary that is a reflection of your worth.  Go ahead and knock out some interviews and see what is out there.  Good luck.

Mark

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #97 on: Dec 05, 2007, 09:31 »
Kev,
  See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!
Modified for language content.  Honeycomb

I don't want to talk about money because there is such a wide spectrum that I can't possibly give you the right number.

Navy nukes get out with and without degrees.  They take jobs anywhere from folding laundry (this is not an exaggeration) to Control Room Operator, Shift Engineer, Instrument technician, ... etc.  Some live in sunny California, and some prefer Maine or New Hampshire

A BSNE from a "good school" will get you what you are seeking, but remember that the $72 k might be your goal, but you won't be able to live within 90 minutes of your job if that paycheck is coming from San Onofre.  You need to look at more than the raw numbers.  You won't be doing nearly as well with $90k at some places as you will with $60k in others.  When I was talking about "crappy" pay, I was not talking about raw dollars, but about the salary in relation to the local cost of living.
This is one thing that you MUST consider.  A lot of plants get their jobs filled because they are in a certain geographical location and they don't need to be competitive with $$$  San Onofre is one fine example.  Their compensation is inversely proportional to the cost of living because young, unattached, sun-loving people will work there just to live there.  Palo Verde is almost as bad.

Instead of ranking jobs by "who offered the most dollars" rank them by what it will buy.

Try this:  Make a chart of median home prices in the areas of the plants in column A (or you can pick a house that you think will be right for you and use the price of a comparable house in each market.  In column B insert the salary.  In column C the ratio of A to B.

If you have the time, figure the other costs of the area such as whether or not the state has an income tax, or compare property tax rates, also factor in the possibility that you may have to pay for private schools for your kids, the local price of gasoline ( very important if you are going to drive from Temecula to San Clemente and back five days a week or Goodyear to Arlington AZ)  In my neighborhood, property taxes can be more than you are paying for a mortgage in Florida, but in parts of Florida the wind damage insurance on a house can be almost a grand a month.

But hey, maybe you think that a certain climate is a good trade off for money.  Perhaps you want to be near the mountains, or the ocean, or your wife's family.

Really, don't sweat the money.  Find a job in a nice area where you want to live, ask if the pay will cover a decent living in that area, take the one that your gut tells you to take.  DO NOT spend a single minute of your precious life worrying over the possibility that they lowballed you by a couple of grand or that someone else got a slightly better deal.  That crap is totally unimportant and will not positively affect your life.  Let it go.
« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2007, 10:24 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #98 on: Dec 05, 2007, 09:56 »
I've been following this thread and it seems to have done some twisting and turning........

I commend you on getting your questions out there and answered, but....

Go out and interview and interview and interview some more. You'll get a good feel for the pay range you're looking at. There is a huge difference between pay at certain plants and location. Some stuff I never figured out.

Example:
A friend of mine at prototype interviewed at X Plant. Was given X ILT offer. 3 weeks later I interviewed for the same position and was offered the same ILT offer but 8K less. Both of us had identical naval careers and quals. Sub and Surface was the main difference. So why was my offer less??? Never figured it out. Never asked. Wasn't the ideal location for me anyway. I was just interviewing to interview. Expanding my options for the ultimate decision.

Moral of the story.......Go out and see what they're gonna give you. Then compile your data and make a decision. Its time to put the rubber on the road for your job search. Butting heads and posting on here is just gonna confuse you and you might end up reenlisting.  :o

I will never get so confused here that i would consider Re-enlisting... I have only been posting on nukeworker for about 3 weeks and am very happy with the variety of info all of you have to offer.  I was confident about getting out of the navy before, but that was based off of all those false rumors of the "100K" jobs that they just give away. Now after reading all the posts and doing my own research I have a real confidence of being able to get out of the navy and at least provide for my family comfortably, just not lavishly.
Jay

ddklbl

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #99 on: Dec 05, 2007, 09:59 »
A quick check of an E-7 retirement at twenty years is about $1800/month which is COLA protected from inflation for the rest of your life. 

Even quicker and dirtier math...

Many civilian jobs will pay you the difference.  I'll give you an instant SRO scenario.  $1800/month is roughly $21000/year.  I would argue that starting salary in commercial nuclear power is more than E-7 pay at the 10 year mark, including the extra bennies (BAH, SDAP, etc...).  By starting salary, I am saying that that is in a training status.  Many companies offer graduated pay raises as you progress in licensing classes.  You will earn that $21000 difference and then some at the end of training.  So, at your 12 year point (10 navy and 2 commercial), you are making more than you would be as much as if you were starting at your 22 (20 Navy and 2 commercial) year mark.  Commercial salaries are "COLA" adjusted as well.  This doesn't even consider commercial retirement packages.  With a little discipline, a 401k, and other retirement savings options... It doesn't add up to stay in.  I've said for a long time, no one stays in the military for the money.  Patriots, yes.  Bankers, no.

As for 41's scenario, shifting the timeline to the right a little, I'd still argue that the numbers are in his favor.

Obviously, no one should use money as the ultimate sole decision maker. 

 :-\
« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2007, 10:16 by ddklbl »

Jimi

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #100 on: Dec 06, 2007, 12:25 »
Seth,
We made Chief together, went through initiations together, and I consider you a friend.  I've been stalking this website for over 6 months and have only posted twice for a reason.  These guys are very helpful with specific questions but when you get into vague topics such as pay you'll receive the full spectrum of opinions.  Interview and see what's out there before you make a decision.  Be a good nuke and weigh your options.  The guys who try to convince you of the benefits of Navy retirement never factor in quality of life and time with your wife.   I'm a 7 year Chief ET/EWS/EOOW with a degree and they would probably try and convince me to stay in for the cash alone.>>Screw that.  Stay in because you love the job and take pride in it every day.  Otherwise, interview, find the job that will make you and the wife happy and comfortable, and embrace the fact that you served well for a long time and made the right choice.  Remeber this is just another maneuvering shoot the sh#$ and you'll make up your own mind.  Semantics.

Jimi

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #101 on: Dec 06, 2007, 09:40 »


subnukederek:  I appreciate your recruiting efforts!  I definitely am prepared to stay in if need be, but I don't love it anymore and am ready for a change.  I WILL stay if I feel that I need to, but I do not forsee that as a problem.

As far as my other comments have gone, I stick by my actions.  I'm not here to piss people off, but I have an agenda:  I am networking and I need information. 

number41,
I'm not a recruiter.  I was trying to share with you my experiences in making this life-changing decision.  I have never loved it as you say.  I took an oath and made a commitment to give it my best shot.  My family and I have made sacrifices based on that commitment, but I don't expect anyone to give me anything.  There are less and less experienced people who are willing to make the commitment required to lead our sailors, so your experience will be missed.  My guess is you feel like you're in a thankless position that requires long, tedious working hours with extended family separations and your bosses don't appreciate, let alone recognize, the effort you put in on a day-to-day basis.   Welcome to the club.   Not every command (CO, XO, ENG, EDMC) is like that.  I'm sure you'll find a job that will pay you more than the navy would and you will get to spend more time with your family.  Thanks for keeping the plant safe.

Derek Murray
emcsmurray@hotmail.com
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #102 on: Dec 06, 2007, 11:00 »
  The guys who try to convince you of the benefits of Navy retirement never factor in quality of life and time with your wife.   
Quality of life is number 1.
41, It sounds like money is your motivating factor here. There's nothing wrong with that. You seem to be in your comfort zone and are afraid to make the leap. We all went through that one way or another. You have proven with your credentials that you have what it takes to be successful outside the Navy. Don't narrow your focus to instant SRO. If you can get it, great! If not, Engineering or Plant Operations would be a great place to start. I have seen several guys with similar resumes as yours breeze through NLO quals. They usually go to license class on there first try if they are not total douche bags. A real SRO license is not far beyond that. You will not find specifics on salaries in this forum. Like others have said, get some interviews.
The most important benefit I have is going home every day. That doesn't seem like much, but like the 20th century poet James Hatfield said, "Nothing else matters". I got be 3rd base coach on my son's baseball team this year and witnessed his first homerun. It didn't dawn on me until he rounded second. Watching this little 8 year old with a bobblehead head helmet with an ear to ear grin and there I was waving him home. I almost lost it.  I will never forget that image and I can't imagine missing moments like that being away on deployment.

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #103 on: Dec 06, 2007, 06:35 »
Jimi and #41:
I sent you a PM with specific information I have on the subject.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #104 on: Dec 11, 2007, 01:29 »
In the end, it makes no difference how many dollars one takes home.  What matters is the quality of the life that one lives.

I couldn't agree with you more. That has to be the best quote I've seen on these message boards and is the best advice you can give to people deciding whether or not to get out of the Navy.
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.  - Mark Twain

jowlman

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #105 on: Dec 11, 2007, 08:19 »
As Troy has said, you have to look at the cost of living in the areas you are considering. You don't have to do all the leg work though. There are relocation wizard online that you can plug in one areas pay and it will tell you what you have to make in another area to be comparible.

shayne

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #106 on: Dec 12, 2007, 02:37 »
I try to always remember that salaries outside of the Navy are usually based on a 40 hour week.  I don't remember any 40 hour weeks in the Navy.  So I was willing to make as much money as I was making in the Navy, but only working a 40 hour week and much better quality of life...

JsonD13

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #107 on: Mar 04, 2010, 09:14 »
Hey I made about that much my first year out.......but I did the extra two years.


Jason

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Re: Entry level pay after Navy
« Reply #108 on: Mar 04, 2010, 11:00 »
   The 80K+ scenario is not indicative of everyone's just-got-out experience. What you should expect is going to be on keel with how you handled your Navy time. If you were a hard charger with more than average intelligence then, sure, you may end up with one of the higher paying jobs (80-100K starting). If, however, you skated through your six-and-out Navy job as a slacker that did just enough to get by, expect job availabilities to reflect your efforts.

   Also, keep in mind that the previous posts are from 3 years ago. Times have changed a bit since then. Across the board pay raises due to inflation, fatigue rules requiring greater manning efforts, and retirements have altered the pay and qualification requirements of certain positions.

   The question of "What can I expect for pay once I get out of the Navy?" is far too broad a question to really answer. It all depends on various factors including but not limited to:
   1. What job are qualified for.
   2. What work you are willing to do.
   3. What kind of picture your Evals and Letters of Recommendation paint of you.
   4. How well you present yourself in an interview.
   5. Where you are willing to work.

   Are those 80-100K jobs out there for entry level? Yes, but you had better be ready to work if you want to keep it. Just because you have been through the Navy pipeline, does not guarantee success in the commercial world. Remember how hard you worked going through that Navy pipeline, and reapply that level of effort. I have seen more than one trainee drop from the program because they thought that their Navy training would give them a coasting pass through the license program.

 


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