Rating Selection Criterion

[kreliav]

A local Nuke coordinator recently gave a presentation to all the area nuke recruits here in Dallas. Having spent quite a lot of time reading through the threads here, I didn't learn much new.

There was something though. He said that the ratings preferences of the vast majority of incoming nukes are as follows from greatest to least:
1) ET
2) EM
3) MM

On the other hand roughly 51% of these end up as MMs; 27% as EMs; 22% as ETs.

I've read that "needs of the Navy" and personal preferences are taken into account in deciding ratings; but since the needs of the Navy are apparently at heavy odds with the preferences of most nukes, it would seem there must be some other factors that account for that select 22% of nukes -- as opposed to some other 22% of them -- being allowed to fill those coveted ET slots. Obviously I'm assuming -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that the Navy doesn't just select at random.

So I'm wondering what it was about that 22% that got ET that made them, in the eyes of the Navy, more qualified than the rest of the recruits to fill their need for ETs. Does anyone know? Is it higher ASVAB scores?

If I have a 99 ASVAB, do I have a better chance of dodging that least preferred MM rating?

[Longhornfan]

I think the selection process takes into consideration numerous things including but probobly not limited to...ASVAB scores, shipping dates, and numbers of each rating needed to fill classes.

That being said it is my opinion that the difference between the three ratings is really not much and that none of them give much of an advantage over the others.  ET is the more "glamorous" sounding but I would say MM gives a bit more opportunity when you add in welding and ELT to the mix.  Also last time I checked only MMs could be ships divers on subs.

ETs get to qualify Reactor Operator...but MMs qualify Enginroom supervisor which is probobly a bit more helpful on the civilian side of things.

I was happy with EM because I felt I got to learn a lot more about the "non-nuclear" parts of the operation than the other two.

ymmv

[Marlin]

If I have a 99 ASVAB, do I have a better chance of dodging that least preferred MM rating?

Them's fightin words, I don't know how it works now but aptitude in a discipline dictated assignment when the needs of the Navy kicked in and your first choice is not an option. I had scores higher than the ET selectee's in boot camp but both my electrical and mechanical scores were high and the two ETs had lousy spacial aptitude scores (not good for a mechanic). I'm a little dated here because our base score was GCT/ARI combination for minimum acceptance then a number of other areas that dictated your potential aptitude for a rating. Being accepted as an electrician or electronics tech may mean that you lacked the fundamental skills to turn a wrench.

OK.. all BS aside the Briggs Gray exam (among others) taken prior to career selction in the civilian world is a measure of what career you would be happiest in, is a typical placement test. The Navy is no different and when your preference is not available it will place you in what it believes is the most appropriate. If you passed with the minimum score to be a nuke you can do any of the three rates Extra Terrestrial is the most requested slot so there are more reasaignments to the other rates. Operationally the mechanics more closely reflect the commercial industry operations departments. ET will more closely fit into the Instrument Control group but has a good crossover to non-nuclear positions. Yes the MM rate is the least requested but may be the best if you intend to work in Operations in the commercial world.

[93-383]

The simple fact is the preferance of ET then EM then MM is due to lack of knowlede of enlising nuks. If people knew about the job EM or MM ELT would be first (they work the least) MM is a tough rating we like to think we work the hardest (we don't) but ET has the major drawback of always being undermaned. Plus on most ships ET's are not allowed to do maintenance until they qualify reactor operator wich takes between 1.5-2+ years (max of 2 allowed by NAVSEA) all ratings can qualify EWS or on surface PPWS (same watch different name) the ET/EM A-school is much harder than MM A-school power and prototype are about the same no matter the rate (EM sucks if you cant be a telephone operator since thats what they do most of the time)

The needs of the navy are the only thing considered when they choose ratings for people since everyone selects ET/EM/MM. I had a roommate in A-school rated MM he had a associates in electronics they still assigned him as an MM the odds are you will become and MM you have a greater than %50 chance

[kreliav]

Them's fightin words,

I really don't think what I said can be read as fighting words unless you really wanted to read them that way. I did not imply that MMs were somehow intellectually inferior. If you'll look more closely at the context, all you'll see is a guy who preferred ET or EM and was wondering if a better ASVAB score would give his preferences greater weight. So take it easy. I didn't know how it works. That's why I asked.

The simple fact is the preferance of ET then EM then MM is due to lack of knowlede of enlising nuks.

I certainly concede that recruit preferences are based on ignorance. Of course. We have no idea what a "Reactor Operator" does. Having no experience to draw from, our preferences reflect the superficial things: we want the ratings that sound the most "glamorous" (that's really a very good word for it). I hear this and will henceforth endeavor to be more open-minded and will immediately stop myself next time the term "MM" invokes mental images of repeatedly stabbing the bulkhead with a screwdriver for several hours a day.

Thanks for the feedback. It really has given me more to consider when I think about the three ratings.

[JsonD13]

I knew plenty of people that had excellent ASVAB scores and didn't get their first (or even second) choice (and yes ended up as a MM).  I even knew one with a 99.  Like everyone else on here has stated, the odds are against you.  There is really no point to letting you have a choice (other than maybe if you are aptly qualified for more than one rate), the navy will stick you where they want you.
I would not worry too much about studying calculus and physics.  The navy will teach you their way of doing this type of work, and you will not have the option to perform derivatives and integrals in your head.  In power school is where you will briefly touch calculus, and you will hardly recognize it as being so (it's very brief and just the very very basics).  That is also at least 4 months into your naval career, and you will have other things to worry about.
Don't worry too much about being physically ready for bootcamp either.  If you are in decent shape (I was 220lbs when I joined, and things went fine for me) you will have more than enough preparation to pass any physical portion of bootcamp.  You will do your fair share of physical activity to prepare yourself there anyways (if you can do roughly 50 pushups, 60 situps, and run a mile and a half under 13 minutes you can already pass the physical readiness test at the END of bootcamp).
I would say your only major concern is getting to the next level of your life, which would be shipping out for bootcamp.  Talk to your recruiter about this, he or she will tell you what you need to know.

[hamsamich]

Don't fret too much.  Ask for MM and then work hard at prototype.  Then you can get welder or ELT, which I think are pretty cool.  All about your own pref though.  Do you want to sit in a box for 6 hours or roam the spaces for 6 hours?  You can still be a reactor operator in a civ plant when you get out even if you were just a "lowly" MM.  I would not want to be an ET if I were to do it over again.

[Marlin]

I really don't think what I said can be read as fighting words unless you really wanted to read them that way. I did not imply that MMs were somehow intellectually inferior. If you'll look more closely at the context, all you'll see is a guy who preferred ET or EM and was wondering if a better ASVAB score would give his preferences greater weight. So take it easy. I didn't know how it works. That's why I asked.
I certainly concede that recruit preferences are based on ignorance. Of course. We have no idea what a "Reactor Operator" does. Having no experience to draw from, our preferences reflect the superficial things: we want the ratings that sound the most "glamorous" (that's really a very good word for it). I hear this and will henceforth endeavor to be more open-minded and will immediately stop myself next time the term "MM" invokes mental images of repeatedly stabbing the bulkhead with a screwdriver for several hours a day.

Thanks for the feedback. It really has given me more to consider when I think about the three ratings.

Attention to detail is also important, read the whole thing and then take to heart the part about growing a thick skin. When you are the new polywog on the block the sharks can smell blood.

[shayne]

It always seems that EM rating is often overlooked in these discussions...  I always felt that I had the best of both worlds.  Typically, our crossrate knowledge and understanding of the operation of the steam plant, was better than your average ET and reactor plant, better than your average MM.

[CharlieRock]

My recollection (from late 1990's) is that divers were actually open to any rate.  An ET (ET1 "Famous" Amos) in my teaching division at NNPTC was DV qualified and served as ship's diver on three fast boats.

[Charles U Farley]

It always seems that EM rating is often overlooked in these discussions...  I always felt that I had the best of both worlds.  Typically, our crossrate knowledge and understanding of the operation of the steam plant, was better than your average ET and reactor plant, better than your average MM.

That is like the Missle Techs claiming to be be meat in the coner-nuke sandwich.  I seriously had a MT try to justify his existence by explaining that by qualifying COW he was the best all around sailor on the boat.  He had intimate knowledge of control, he had the nuclear weapon training, so the nukes had nothing on him.  Electronics, hydraulics, ordnance, nukes, this guy knew it all.  He got busted by NIS for something equally commensurate with his superior "abilities".  

The only thing our E-Div had intimate cross rate knowledge of was Oscar the Grinder and hot water heaters.    Of course, tit for tat, the only thing RC and M divvers knew were stupid D&D games.

The person on the boat who had the best cross rate level of knowledge was the guy who gave a sh!t.  He was the only one who pulled a book out on watch while everyone else coke'd and joke'd.  He was the only one who offered to stay after watch and help his crossrate buddies finish up whatever corrective maintenance they had since felt bad burning a flick while they were assholes n' elbows in the evaporator, or the scullery, or SGWL cabinet.  You knew who he was when on the mess decks, he would answer the ringing phone while everyone else ignored it.  He was the MM who gave the RT a piss break.  He was the ET who would relieve ERF when the NO. 1 non-oily wasn't going to cut it.  He was the EM who corrected the MT's on communications during battlestations missle.  Everybody knew who he was.

It doesn't matter what you get designated.  It's what you do with it afterwards.

[LaFeet]

The person on the boat who had the best cross rate level of knowledge was the guy who gave a sh!t.  He was the only one who pulled a book out on watch while everyone else coke'd and joke'd.  He was the only one who offered to stay after watch and help his crossrate buddies finish up whatever corrective maintenance they had since felt bad burning a flick while they were assholes n' elbows in the evaporator, or the scullery, or SGWL cabinet.  You knew who he was when on the mess decks, he would answer the ringing phone while everyone else ignored it.  He was the MM who gave the RT a piss break.  He was the ET who would relieve ERF when the NO. 1 non-oily wasn't going to cut it.  He was the EM who corrected the MT's on communications during battlestations missle.  Everybody knew who he was.

It doesn't matter what you get designated.  It's what you do with it afterwards.

Hoo Rah !!!   You tell'em Chuck.   I like to think I was that guy.... I loved crawling in the Barndoors, swinging the endbells and swapping bearings, QUA-ing risics at sea, and even helping out the mess cooks with the pizza night or thanksgiving dinner.   I spent far toooooo much time in front of those damn maneuvering panels for my liking, I guess thats the main reason why Ima out her swingin a meter.

The main difference is how hard they tried to be a better shipmate.  Not how smart they were (and we had a few doosies - myself one of them in me early days).  I always looked out for my boys, and that included my watchsection too.  I do miss those days, but I don't think the Navy isa gonna match my pay and diem needed to get me back on a people tube.

I'd send ya Karma Chuck.....but I aint a goldie  (yet)

[Cycoticpenguin]

My recollection (from late 1990's) is that divers were actually open to any rate.  An ET (ET1 "Famous" Amos) in my teaching division at NNPTC was DV qualified and served as ship's diver on three fast boats.

No, only mechanic sub vol's may be divers or welders. The welder would seem impractical for an ET to learn... maybe he recieved some special C school like one of my instructors did.

[hamsamich]

unless things have changed, anyone can become a diver.  all you have to do is pass the dive test and get your command to send you to dive school.  there were even Marines in my dive class in 1992, along with navy dudes of many different ratings.  one of our nuc ETs who got out in 1991 was a diver.  welders must be mechanics.   but that was a while ago.

[LaFeet]

No, only mechanic sub vol's may be divers or welders. The welder would seem impractical for an ET to learn... maybe he recieved some special C school like one of my instructors did.

ETs could NOT be Welders because of NEC classification.  I managed to attend the school as a sit in instructor but could not get the NEC.

Dive school was NOT limited to any specific rate.  Em, ET IC and MM (including the infamous SMAG) were always incouraged to seek diver quals (and school).  When I was in it was common practise to have 1/2 Coner divers and 1/2 Nukes....

[Nuke Jayhawk Mom]

My son is in boot camp still, with a PIR of 5/1/15 but just found out his rate is ET. His first choice was MM and second choice EM. They put him at ET. His ASVAB was 98, and I am sure that the subcategories had some influence on the placement, but also Navy need, I know.

My first thought when I read the posted question about what other factors may be considered for selection of the 22% that are ET, was that maybe they also look at how many and what kind of waivers had to be completed for enlistment. My son has no experience with drinking, drugs, broken bones, childhood illnesses, or sex quite frankly, so no STD waivers haha. I wonder if that has anything to do with it, and think it could be one of the other considerations.

Just my two cents. Can't wait until I understand all of the lingo on here. Great site. Terrifying too.

[Tylor]

It does seem a bit random, I've met people who had 99 ASVAB who were placed as mechanics, even though it was their second or third choice. I've also seen people on the lower end (75ish) scores get ET. From my boot camp division I had 10 nukes, 3 got EM (including me), 3 were ETS, and 4 were MMs. I'm no recruiter, and I'm not big navy, but I'd say it's almost 100% up to luck. When you get to boot camp you write down your first and second choices and the coordinators there figure out who's going where.
Odds are after all your training, even if you didn't get what you initially wanted you'll have a great pride in what you do. The stigma for us nukes is that mechanics are the most normal, ETs are the nerdiest, and EMs are somewhere in the middle. Also if you're going ET I would recommend volunteering for subs. surface ETs only get a 75k bonus, while their sub counterparts get 100k. Also advancement to first class for submarine ETs is 100%.
Best of luck in choosing your rate.

[HeavyD]

"Needs of the Navy" - a common expression seen on this site.  What does it actually mean?

At BUPERS, Bureau of Naval Personnel, the manning information for every ship and boat in the fleet is maintained through the efforts of detailers.  Detailers can see the rotation dates for every sailor assigned to every command.  Manning for each individual rate is also maintained.  Billets at each shore command are also maintained there.  The manning game is planned out several years in the future for a command.  Individual names aren't assigned, but a billet is.

The info is gathered and sorted.  Each rating, each command has billets to fill.  Several factors are taken into consideration when selecting what rate an individual will end up with.  All the "smart" people aren't put into one rate because you want to maintain some semblance of balance between your ratings.  Each one is important to the proper functioning of your propulsion plant.

Yes, there is some "luck" involved in that someone else is determining your rating, based on a variety of criteria that you are entirely not privy to.

Hopefully this jumble of text makes some sense and gives a somewhat clearer glimpse into how a Nuke sailore gets their rating chosen.

And no, there is no dartboard involved ....... at least not anymore