best rating for the real world?

[Fermi2]

One thing that's a bit surprising. In the commercial world it's Electronics People who tend to be the ones who set up Valve Actuators and Set limit switches are Air Operated Valves. In the commercial world they're Instrument Mechanics and Technicians, not merely Electronics Techs.

The best rate is that which gets you a job on the outside.

Mike

[flamatrix99]

There is NO better rate in the navy's nuclear program.

Just the one you like to do.

Review the threads on this .... it might answer your quesitons.

As a navy nuke you will learn a lot about every rates responsiblities.  You will need to be a smart person to make it through the program reguardless what rate you choose.

Good Luck,

Jason

Jason is correct. I was a MM but I also ended up qualifying as a Reactor Technician (ET watch) and Secondary Chemist (ELT watch).  I also went to T-9 school (Reactor Principles).  So just because you are one rate or another doesn't mean you won't learn about the other rates.  Knowledge is power in the nuclear world. The more you learn now the more it can help you later on in your career.

Doug

[M1Ark]

See, now thats horses**t.  How smart are they really, if they let that make their decision for them. 

Glad to hear your opinion, Chuck.  If you read between the lines at what I said and re-read what you said you'll see we are not that far apart in our thought.  I realized early on that it doesn't really matter  what rate you end up. I had some help in my decision in that my father-in-law was a nuke electrician in power school class 62-04 and my uncle was a nuke ET in class 62-05.  I saw how they were doing 20 years post navy nuke and I picked their brains prior to joining and realized it doesn't really matter what rate you end up. I choose MM so I'll never know what would have happened.  I've been in the bussiness 20+ years and I am sick and tired of ET's saying they're the smartest, EM's saying they're the most marketable and ELT's saying they were....   you finish that line. 

Everyone is proud at what they do and they should be.

[hamsamich]

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?topic=4089.msg39942

try this topic as well.  I think ELT has a slight edge, only because they are qualified mechanics with a cherry on top (chemistry and HP also).  i'm not trying to start an argument, maybe i should just PM this info.  but to be helpful, I'll risk it.  I think all nuke ratings are similar in importance and brain power, but the simple fact is an ELT does more than one thing by virtue of him being an ELT (Chem Tech, HP Tech, Operator equiv. in the real world).  They don't even have to worry about trying to do extra by getting special quals like EWS, they are ELTs before they step on board even if they qualify the bare minimum when they get there (like me!).  Many people like to argue that everybody can qualify stuff similar to an ELT and that is EVENTUALLY true if they stay in long enough to go to another command, but if someone wants to do SIX and out and not bother with EWS or R-5 (radcon monitor, RCSS), go ELT.  I would if I had it to do over again, and people I trust (who are and who aren't EX-ELTs) are in agreement that ELT has a slight edge just because you are qualified to do more jobs.  Now some will argue that anybody can do the job on the outside an ELT did in the navy, and that is true, but who are you more likely to hire, some one with or without more experience for the specific job?  Other arguements include ELTs aren't as good at being MMs as a full-blooded MM, which I agree with, but they are still qualified MM and it is on the resume, and most of them were decent at it.  I was probably one of the worst MMs there was.  I probably had no business standing watch as an ERS now that I look back, but CP+L didn't care because all they saw was MM/ELT, so they hired me as an operator.  The secret is out, don't tell anyone! ;-)

Bottom line is it doesn't matter, much.  Just being an Ex-Navy nuke WILL get a foot in the door at many a nuke plant, as well as other places.  You can always get your foot in the door by doing what your rating qualified you for, then cross over after you've been at the plant for awhile when the time is right.

[Roll Tide]

With all due respect to Ham's well-reasoned reply, I must disagree that ELT is an advantage in what I considered "the real world".

ELT might be an advantage in getting a commercial OPS job on the outside (hadn't considered some of the details he included), but isn't as advantageous in working in commercial OPS. The troubleshooting and repairs I performed on the R-114 plants was valuable in the way prints are read in the commercial world. Most ELTs I worked with had never written an electrical clearance at the end of their first 6 years. But every MM that did Air Conditioning had that experience. The same argument can be made for the Diesel Maintenance MMs.

Sure, you could call on the ELT's for help changing out zinc rods / plates. They could turn a wrench, and even got the direction right when working on the backside of a beam (like working in a mirror). But I didn't see them working on the R-114s or LiBr plants (oops, those are probably all gone anyway). Most were competent wiping oil off the idle Diesel in AMR2LL, but were unlikely to be involved in that maintenance either.

Bottom line by Ham is correct. Getting the foot in the door is important. Being able to do many things is important. But when it comes time to settle into your career, it is important to be good at what you do. And IMHO, ELT is a distraction for many. They keep evaluating every job posting for Chemistry and RadCon, instead of focusing on OPS.

For the record: No, I didn't request ELT. Had I understood the job better, I might have. My intentions going into the Navy were to become qualified to enter OPS training with TVA (and operate Bellefonte, but that is a different thread). I asked my Dad what ratings the ex-Navy Nukes were that worked for him (Bellefonte Shift Manager, actually called Shift Engineer back then) had been, and the majority of the successful operators were MM.

[Marlin]

With all due respect to Ham's well-reasoned reply, I must disagree that ELT is an advantage in what I considered "the real world".

ELT might be an advantage in getting a commercial OPS job on the outside (hadn't considered some of the details he included), but isn't as advantageous in working in commercial OPS. The troubleshooting and repairs I performed on the R-114 plants was valuable in the way prints are read in the commercial world. Most ELTs I worked with had never written an electrical clearance at the end of their first 6 years. But every MM that did Air Conditioning had that experience. The same argument can be made for the Diesel Maintenance MMs.

Sure, you could call on the ELT's for help changing out zinc rods / plates. They could turn a wrench, and even got the direction right when working on the backside of a beam (like working in a mirror). But I didn't see them working on the R-114s or LiBr plants (oops, those are probably all gone anyway). Most were competent wiping oil off the idle Diesel in AMR2LL, but were unlikely to be involved in that maintenance either.

Bottom line by Ham is correct. Getting the foot in the door is important. Being able to do many things is important. But when it comes time to settle into your career, it is important to be good at what you do. And IMHO, ELT is a distraction for many. They keep evaluating every job posting for Chemistry and RadCon, instead of focusing on OPS.

For the record: No, I didn't request ELT. Had I understood the job better, I might have. My intentions going into the Navy were to become qualified to enter OPS training with TVA (and operate Bellefonte, but that is a different thread). I asked my Dad what ratings the ex-Navy Nukes were that worked for him (Bellefonte Shift Manager, actually called Shift Engineer back then) had been, and the majority of the successful operators were MM.

Roll Tide I was an ELT who went to AC&R school and LiBr school and was the onboard expert for both. I even did a freeze seal with the onboard equipment. I don't think I was that unique for a Fast Attack, one of our ELTs was also one of our welders. Its hard to paint anyone with the broad brushes we tend to use to put people in a box we can deal with. Experiences in the Navy depended on assignment, I think everyone recognizes the big difference in work load and cross training done in Fast Attacks as compared to the surface fleet. Now getting off of my high horse the perception of ELTs in general for those reveiwing resumes is probably the same as yours and if I were appying for an OPs postion I would down play ELT qualifications of my resume.

[hamsamich]

ha ha, that's funny that you say that marlin, because that is exactly what I did (play down my ELT to get the operator job, at least for one of the interviewers, I had 4.)  And when I was intervewing for Chem Tech, I turned the volume up on the fact that I was an ELT.  After reading RollTides post, I think he misunderstood.  I'm not saying ELTs are better qualified for a certain job, I'm just saying they are qualified to DO MORE jobs compared to the other ratings.  Avoid the tasty trap here of saying "but i was qualified this and that and I did this as well".  I'm merely comparing basic minimum qualified ELT vs EM vs ET vs MM.   And I guess i'm using a Fast Boat Nuke, because it was different on Targets.  Any of these ratings can go on to qualify whatever else the command will let them, within thier rating.  I got to be ships Diver, and exercise leader, and on the tender I was the dosimitry guy and a bunch of other stuff too.  But I'm not going to add this in to what ELTs and MMs qualify, because there are plenty of other extras everybody can get in all ratings.  Yes, ELTs may not have been AS QUALIFIED on the average to do MM jobs, but it is still on the resume.  There were plenty of guys like Marlin too, just not me and most of the ELTs on my boat.  We were all slackers.  I'm sure there are guys out there interviewing candidates who like MMs better than ELTs, but there are also guys out there who prefer ELT, ET, and EM.  But no matter what interviewers prefer, ELTs are still qualified to do more than two major departmental jobs.  If there are 12 jobs up for grabs say 4 operator positions, 2 chem tech positions, 2 HP positions, 2 maintenance positions, 2 IC tech positions, who has more possiblilities? 

[Roll Tide]

If there are 12 jobs up for grabs say 4 operator positions, 2 chem tech positions, 2 HP positions, 2 maintenance positions, 2 IC tech positions, who has more possiblilities? 

If you interview for all of the above at the same utility, don't expect to get an offer for any of them. Every one will wonder if you are just taking their slot in order to get an internal transfer to the one you really want. BTW, have a different resume for each. But you are right, I was intentionally focusing on which training prepared you to do (not get) the better job.

As far as the extra training, I only considered those with 6 years. Some of the Boomers had many slots for class, so the ELTs sometimes got the MM classes (such as R-114).  But most of the Fast Attack M-Divs I knew didn't get enough class billets to waste them on first-tour ELTs.

ELTs with more time in the Navy got more opportunities as MMs, in preparation for becoming the M-Div LPO one day. And my best and worst Chief were formerly ELT. Go figure...

[M1Ark]

Yes, ELTs may not have been AS QUALIFIED on the average to do MM jobs, but it is still on the resume.  There were plenty of guys like Marlin too, just not me and most of the ELTs on my boat.  We were all slackers.  I'm sure there are guys out there interviewing candidates who like MMs better than ELTs, but there are also guys out there who prefer ELT, ET, and EM.  But no matter what interviewers prefer, ELTs are still qualified to do more than two major departmental jobs.  If there are 12 jobs up for grabs say 4 operator positions, 2 chem tech positions, 2 HP positions, 2 maintenance positions, 2 IC tech positions, who has more possiblilities? 

I finally see your point Ham.  You are right.  I think the original poster was asking which is the best rate as in pertains to the real world.  You were answering it based on which rate has the best opportunity to get an ENTRY LEVEL job.  Myself and numerous others answered the same question based on which rate led to success which sometimes leads to rapid promotions into upper management. 

[Fermi2]

I was an ELT (An MM First) and I was about the best mechanic on my boat. I've never had trouble with any theory and probably understand more about Electronics Electrical Theory and Print Reading better than 95% of the nukes of any rating I've ever met. Being an ELT has only helped me in every job I've ever been in and has especially helped me as an SM because when I have to deal with other departments I've been able to speak their language AND to know when someone is blowing BS Smoke in my direction.

It all depends on what you make of it I guess. I went from an NLO to A SM in 9 1/2 years but I made darn sure anytime I had a chance to do jobs outside of Ops that I did them.

I know for a fact M1Ark didn't shy away from special duties and jobs and in fact performed a couple that ended up improving life at Fermi immeasurably.

Overall it's NOT so much your rate that determines your success, it's your willingness and ability to learn stuff that's normally not your job that is the end measuring device. So my best advice is to learn whatever you can because at some point in your nuclear career it might become you job. As my father used to say "Mikey when you work for a company it's not your job to tell them what your job is" Follow that rule and you'll do ok regardless of rate.

Mike

[hamsamich]

i was getting ready to post something similar to Broadzilla, but he did it for me!  sweet.  if you really want to make the most of it, any nuke can spend his time getting to know the other ratings and qualifying extra stuff, making him/her worth way more on the outside, especially when they get a real job and the people in charge see up-close what a gem they have or not.  i had an EM who always wanted to hang out in nucleonics and do primary sample stuff.  he got permission to take a couple of primary samples.  he probably owns a used car lot now.... 

[neitzezc]

depends on what you want to do when you get out o the Navy.  in the Navy ELT is the best bar none.  least work, most perks    when you get out if you want to stay nuclear, it doesnt matter, places are looking for every rate.  if you dont care if its nuclear or not when you get out the best is 100% either of the electrical rates.  their experience directly translates into so many more jobs out there then strait mechanics and ELTs. 

ETs/electricians are in high demand in almost all industry, mechanics are almost uniformally pushed into HVAC to use their skills rom the Navy (which subsequently, 90% of all nuclear mechanics have no experience with HVAC outside of standing a lower level watch while running a chiller.  most mechanics never do maintenance on them, most never do things like evacuate them, troubleshoot them.  most never eve see the internals of fans etc).  ELTs are in a lot of ways worse off from what I've seen because they are mechanics, but generally are seen as weak mechanically (not always true).  their expertise lies in radcon (only really power plant applicable, with some minor applications in medicine you could get into without a degree), and chemistry (and most places looking for chemists are looking for the chmistry major from a university)

This has just been my experience so far as a former ELT. 

[Austria]

I think the best rating is the one that interests you most. If you haven't already been placed, take a good, hard look at what the job descriptions for each rating are and how they compare with your interests and aptitude.

Another way to look at this: they are ALL the best rating to apply to the commercial world. As much as any experience you gain in the Navy, the fact that you are an honorably discharged Navy Nuc means that you are a highly trainable and capable individual. Some smaller facilities such as university labs, source manufacturers, etc... may look at you and go..."ooohhhh. Navy Nuc. They already know everything. Good one to hire." Larger facilities such as commercial power plants will look at you and think...."Navy Nuc. Someone we know we can train."

I started off as an MM (had always been a mechanic) and decided on ELT school while at NPTU ballston Spa because I wanted to stay for ski season. I told that to my division officer and that weekend we were headed up to Killington and I was selected for ELT school. No lie.
Turned out to be a great move for me as I found out I really enjoyed ELT work, especially the radcon aspect.

So, follow your interests and gain as much experience as you can in operations and evolutions outside your specialty area as well. On the Enterprise we would solicit volunteers from other divisions for special duty assignments such as primary side SG work, Resin exchange, CRDM replacement, etc.....A lot of people found the work interesting and a nice break from their normal duty rotation. 

Work hard on advancing in your rate as well as additional qualifications such as radcon shift supervisor, engineering watch supervisor, etc....these are all things that show just how capable and trainable you are.

Good luck with whatever you choose and remember that whatever rate you choose, it's a good one!   

[rlbinc]

The best all around nuke I ever met was a Gunner's Mate from an FFG. If you worked at Clinton, you might know a man formerly known as Mongo.

Know anyone smarter? I don't.
 

[LaFeet]

Dang   I guess Ima just stoopid


 I thought SMAGs, Apes, Twinkies and Tricians all worked together.  At least we did on my boats... even that slow pig I was last on.

 As for 6 and out------ get EWS quals ASAP, nuff said.  Also, if the command will let you, qualify anything that you can.  I managed to qualify everything except the primary SMAG stuff.... and welder (they dont give ETs those NECs)..... BCE was a cool qual.

 As for an advantage, any NUKE worth anything should have an equal chance at getting the job.  Its really about how well you apply and sell your skills.

 BTW   I gotta go work for BroadZ