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Offline biloxoi blues

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #125 on: Jun 30, 2007, 04:31 »
Were you amazed how someone could fail the test or did some of Pali's best fail the test?

Asa1

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #126 on: Jul 01, 2007, 10:06 »
Cammy,
No one at the Sades dropped the test. I was amazed that anyone could..........When are you coming up Cammy?....We are as pitiful as ever.......Pitiful.


Asa

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #127 on: Jul 03, 2007, 01:44 »
This whole thing may have gotten off track!  I have not seen the test, but there are a few things to think about:
If you can't read a speedometer (or in certain circumstances a tachometer) you really shouldn't be driving!
If you can't read a micrometer, don't try to do precision machining!
If you can't read a tape measure (or cut a straight line) don't become a carpenter!
If you are reading a dose rate meter (on the rem/rad scale) take the high end of the fluctuation and get out!
If you are reading a meter on the microR/microrem scale, call it the average of the fluctuation
Try taking five instruments, of the same type, calibrated by the same person - place the detector in the same (exactly) spot - and you probably won't get the same exact reading on any two.
Come within 10% (preferrably +10%) an I'll call it good, especially on the high end!
 ;D
Humor is a wonderful way to prevent hardening of the attitudes! unknown
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. Regan

shovelheadred

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #128 on: Jul 04, 2007, 02:48 »
..as I scanned through the forum..I thought this blog was for reading an outside meter and was poking fun,,,that is before I opened it and read what Eric said,,,( no, Spankee,,I am still sober and clean),,,I just dont read every blog...but after reading it,,I like what RDTroja said in the first couple of his reply's....and this training is nothing new...I had it in the Navy, and also as a House Tech at Farley...they had an 8 week training class and this was part of it,,they explained how each meter worked..and how to read them...now that was in the 80's and we didnt have but a few meters,,,this was before or during the time the RSO-50/5 was introduced,,and time of the multi-probed instruments had not come about..we are talking basic ....but we had problems with technicians being on the wrong scale...the late/great Perry Farnsworth going down in the transfer canal, to survey the transfer system, because  it was the end of the year and he was one of the few with any dose left...and he the Manager,,,,the technician B had gotten an overexposure, because technician A had been on the wrong scale during the initial survey ( this was before the time of remote dosimetry, we were using pocket dosimeters)..and I have been at sites that test for this during the initial RP training,,,Limerick did this training....or excersize....I didn't read the entire blog, so if I covered what everybody else said,,or if the matter has gotten comepletely off subject,,feel free to scold me or delete this entry....red

Rvrpaddlr

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #129 on: Jul 09, 2007, 04:03 »
Well. here goes.
I have been reading this thread for some time, biting my tongue.
I created the Meter Reading test.
Those that have been to Susquehanna will know who I am.
2007 was the third year we have done this test.  I have modified it every year, taking into account new meters and ones we have gotten rid of.
I have increased the time to 30 seconds a slide, and I have reduced the number of meters for Juniors.
We still require a 90% for both juniors and seniors.  20 slides for seniors and 10 slides for juniors.
Roughly 20% do not make it on ther fist attempt.
We still 7 seniors that could not pass the test on the 4th attempt.. 
All of the juniors made it through after the second try. 
What does that say?
I have read all of the comments about unfamiliar meters, etc, but in the world of RPT or CDSV skill sets, which most plants use, a meter is a meter is a meter.
We supplied Bartlett with a copy of the test so techs could use, it is on their website.
I have given the test to Seabrook, Grand Gulf, River Bend, Beaver Valley and others I cannot remember.
We also generated an INPO OE based on our findings.
And yes, I am working on new tests for our Spring outage.  Have to, I have given mine out to too many other plants.
So, practice reading those meter!

alphadude

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #130 on: Jul 09, 2007, 05:27 »
Why isn't a fundamental gauge reading class presented? When I was in ChemEng. the first semester we were in unit ops we were taught to read multiple types of gauges and dials. This is the foundation for reading any type of indication device... what if they have to read magnehelics (hepa units) or level indicator (H3 cold traps) or flow meters (containment verification) or a compass rose (emergency response)? Could it be that the class is too task oriented and not providing a foundation to build on? (monkey see monkey do?) Were they taught "significant numbers" or interpolation? High failure rates indicates poor training-hope you are not are getting the techs from the short bus! 

Rvrpaddlr

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #131 on: Jul 09, 2007, 07:13 »
We are fortunate to have a very high returnee rate.
We were unfortunate to have someone make an error that started all of this.
When we bring in technicians for an outage, the are supposed to know how to read a meter.
We only evaluate their ability.
If they cannot, we remediate and try it again.
The remediation is a fundamental "gauge reading" course.
I have had non-HP QA evaluators sit in the test and ace it.
Results at Susquehanna are being duplicated at other utilities.
It is an industry problem, hence our INPO OE.

Some other comments.
I read where the meter photos should be taken head on.  I tried, but often you then cannot see the scale switch.
Glare on the meter face is another issue, so photos were taken slightly to one side or the other.
We only administer to 6 to 8 people at a time, so they can sit close or far away from the screen.
We allow a tolerance of one scale division for the answer.
No need to convert to dpm, just counts per minute or mR/hr.

Have a great day!


ramdog_1

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #132 on: Jul 09, 2007, 07:28 »
Look it all comes down to this sit at the desk tell the JR HP to go get the readings, have the decon person got get the smears and pull the A/S when they are done had to the JR and tell him to take it to the count room. let him write up the survey and sign it for them . and tell a few sea storys. They start with this is a No Sh--er lol.
if you do not know how to read the meter you better get help.

LaFeet

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #133 on: Jul 10, 2007, 12:55 »
Why isn't a fundamental gauge reading class presented? When I was in ChemEng. the first semester we were in unit ops we were taught to read multiple types of gauges and dials. This is the foundation for reading any type of indication device... what if they have to read magnehelics (hepa units) or level indicator (H3 cold traps) or flow meters (containment verification) or a compass rose (emergency response)? Could it be that the class is too task oriented and not providing a foundation to build on? (monkey see monkey do?) Were they taught "significant numbers" or interpolation? High failure rates indicates poor training-hope you are not are getting the techs from the short bus! 

Are we hiring people that can read gas guages..... speedometers......oil pressure guages??????  Duh  Yeah....

The same BASIC training is required for your drivers license as for being able to read a radiac..... come on!

I am ALL FOR helping anyone learning and advancing.  Those that have worked with me will support my statement.  I know many that may think I may be tooooooo Arrogant.  But I know what can do or what I can learn and support.   I am not out there trying to bolster my eval.... my resume.  Hire me for what I can do and support the job...... if I have potential   use me.


This has gotten way out of hand.     those that can   DO    those that cant   shoud not apply

metermaid

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #134 on: Jul 10, 2007, 10:34 »
I read where the meter photos should be taken head on.  I tried, but often you then cannot see the scale switch.
Glare on the meter face is another issue, so photos were taken slightly to one side or the other.

Take the photos landscape instead of portrait.  If necessary, take the handle off to allow a better view of the meter face and the scale.  Use a corporate photographer who can take the flash off of the top of the camera to eliminate the glare.  Better yet, send the photos to corporate graphics who can accurately draw the meters in Adobe Illustrator or similar software.

The bottom line is take away all of the excuses from the unqualified technicians.

RADBASTARD

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #135 on: Jul 10, 2007, 01:00 »
Bottom line if your a sr hp and you can't read a meter, your an IDIOT and have no business being in this business.

Go get a hair net and a name tag and go work for mcdonalds if you can read the meter  on the timer of the fryer.

Offline MrHazmat

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #136 on: Jul 10, 2007, 03:14 »
Bottom line if your a sr hp and you can't read a meter, your an IDIOT and have no business being in this business.

Go get a hair net and a name tag and go work for mcdonalds if you can read the meter  on the timer of the fryer.

The timers at McDonalds have alarms to guard against people who can't read. :P
Keeping our highways safe for over 40 years

Tech A

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #137 on: Jul 10, 2007, 05:51 »
McDonalds has standards when they hire people, the companies that keep hiring these techs over and over doesnt.  Can you imagine McDonalds keeping a person who cant run a register or hitting the trash cans with the garbage?   I thank Rvrpaddlr for responding with the information, he made the test as fair as possible, but there will be people who make excuses for anything they cant pass and there are some people who havent even taken the test who are already making excuses for themselves and others.  Bottom line a tech who fails this test Four Freaking times should not be hire by the companies that care about their reputation and the reputation of co workers.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2007, 06:21 by Tech A »

Tech A

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #138 on: Jul 10, 2007, 06:18 »
I think that Bartlett is doing us all a service, not everyone is a speed demon and its a good idea for everyone to brush up or hone their skills. Doctors and sports figures are two groups of people I can think of that do this routinely. And I don't blame Bartlett or not Barlett alone for the shortage of techs, look towards the utilities and their inability to schedule the outages in a way in which their would be an abundance of good techs.
Bartlett is not doing a service for all of us in this case.  They are doing a service for the techs who cant read a meter and they are doing a service for themselves to keep these techs employed so they can fill slots.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2007, 06:24 by Tech A »

klsas

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #139 on: Jul 10, 2007, 07:09 »
It seems like since we started using the NUF only every 4 to 5 years, standards have really dropped. A lot of the older techs that went through testing at every site are now either house doing continuing training or working DOE or out of the nuke field altogether. It may be time to think about testing (including meters) on an annual, or more frequently, schedule. Day 1 on site should be qualifying tests, even before FFD. You shouldn't get paid until you prove your qualified. Why waste time in-processing when you can't do your job safely or protect others. It was a pain to have to qualify at every site, every time, but standards were much higher not that many years ago. The older techs in a pre-FFD society were able to qualify at every site, every time. That shows you how knowledgeable the techs were back in the 70's and 80's. I remember constant training in the Navy and then having to stay on top of things when I started commercial in 92. Back then you always saw a Gollnick or Moe in the break room. I can't recall seeing one of those two books in the break room now in several years. This goes back to my first sentence. Just my additional two cents.

Keith

ramdog_1

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #140 on: Jul 10, 2007, 07:37 »
Thats it they need more F.O.B.'s !
I do agree with  a  lot of you. if you are a SR HP you need to be able to read the meter and tell me if I am in a 5R Field or 5mr/hr Field. and how CPM the smears are reading.
I worked with a lot of good techs back in the old days most of them are gone now.
I new a lot guys who could tell you how hot a smear was by hearing the meter.
A lot of the older guys have done the one tech per job ( VA power) and stay with them untill the job was over. and there been a few us at IP 2 down in the basement. and yes we tested at every site.
I was out at Diablo and the showed a gal an RO2A and she did not know what it was for. ( long time ago)  this is when they hired you from your resume. No real HP test them you had to show them you could do your job .
 Take your time and learn your job good luck all.

RADBASTARD

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #141 on: Jul 12, 2007, 02:19 »
I can't wait for the masselin and disk smear test!

alphadude

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #142 on: Jul 12, 2007, 09:29 »
don't even test on scan rate and frisking for contamination- very high failure rate with Sr RATs on that one.. (90%) but when we do it- (scan rates) it is an evaluation- not a test- and we make them better when its all said and done... isn't this the purpose to make things better.. and evaluate...???

the initial findings should only be a starting point not a debate on "seniors worth their salt" and anyone can have a bad day.. this meter reading is just another tool to evaluate and improve.. dont make it into a cresenthammer.

duke99301

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #143 on: Jul 12, 2007, 10:22 »
Years ago I was doing a pipe replacement over seas and I was counting smears with my Ro2A.  The local House tech there thought I was not in his ball park with what he wanted .
Will he had a multi Channel Analyzer he was very proud of and wanted to show me he could count my smears as fast as I could. I told him we did not want to put these smears in his machine but he would not listen to me.  it was funny how the 1st printout came back ??????????????.  needless to say I left him to decon his own machine .
oh will he had a degree.

Offline Limited Quanity

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #144 on: Jul 12, 2007, 05:52 »
You know it really is great when you have folks that are on top of the game.  But if you gauge the quality of a tech, Jr or Sr, on whether they read a meter consistently, everytime, well,,,.   I remember once having to resurvey inside the bio shield at Sequoyah because the previous survey for the our shift was <2 mrem/hr.  Cold/hot legs, PRT, RHR suction line, everywhere.  They had a copy of the last days routine to go by and the whole nine yards.  They could read the meter just fine and it would have even been better if the batteries hadn't been knocked loose before they started the survey.  It just didn't register in the meter between their ears I guess.  I always like to get a side of common sense to go along with that plate of "survey says" at my control point.  My 2 cents but it might save a dime.
I used to be a lifeguard until some blue kid got me fired.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #145 on: Jul 15, 2007, 08:44 »

Glare on the meter face is another issue, so photos were taken slightly to one side or the other.


iffen yer using film, use a 35mm camera with a detachable flash unit n hold it off to the side 'n bounce da light to eliminate da glare.  iffen ya gots digital, run it through a photo program before power point.  even basic programs have an "enhancement" option to click on 'n dis will take out da glare.

good test.  here's hoping ya wipe out a buncha non meter reading meter readers.    ;D
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

alphadude

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #146 on: Jul 16, 2007, 11:08 »
you use a polarizer to get rid of glare.

Bunya

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #147 on: Jul 23, 2007, 11:47 »
Hi to all - 1st post.  I came across this site looking for information on the POSS test.  I'm going to be applying at a gas-turbine plant, but have always had a deep interest in nukes so I'm reading posts trying to learn some new things and figure out what all the acronyms stand for.  Having lived a couple of miles from Braidwood for close to 20 years, I've got to say I'm absolutely astounded that it's possible some of the folks working there couldn't read those meters.  I've never seen any of those instruments before yet only misread 1 meter and took an avg. of 7 seconds per unit. Due to most of the photo's being taken from an angle, the parallax error was pretty large on some of them which doesn't help my confidence a whole lot! Well I should get back to conversion practice.  Nice to meet you all and many thanks for the info I've learned about the POSS.

Marc - 

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #148 on: Jul 25, 2007, 08:46 »
you use a polarizer to get rid of glare.

wail, yeah.  iffen ya gotz won a doze.  butt iffen yinz control yer photons, ya kin git goot kwalitee cheep.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

RADBASTARD

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Re: Meter Reading Training
« Reply #149 on: Jul 25, 2007, 09:29 »
Bunya,sounds like you would make a better tech than some of those non-meter reading one's we have out there?
Hi to all - 1st post.  I came across this site looking for information on the POSS test.  I'm going to be applying at a gas-turbine plant, but have always had a deep interest in nukes so I'm reading posts trying to learn some new things and figure out what all the acronyms stand for.  Having lived a couple of miles from Braidwood for close to 20 years, I've got to say I'm absolutely astounded that it's possible some of the folks working there couldn't read those meters.  I've never seen any of those instruments before yet only misread 1 meter and took an avg. of 7 seconds per unit. Due to most of the photo's being taken from an angle, the parallax error was pretty large on some of them which doesn't help my confidence a whole lot! Well I should get back to conversion practice.  Nice to meet you all and many thanks for the info I've learned about the POSS.

Marc - 

 


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