They say "Timing is everything"

[Bfjohnson]

Hello!

Congratulations on an awesome site, and tool for those of us looking to grow up and get a real job someday!

I have a dilema that I figured I'd throw out there and see if there are any words of wisdom to be had.

I am a nuke ET (surface) E-6. I've been in for about 11 years. My EAOS is December 2008. (Never to early to start planning, right?)

My problem is this. I am currently stationed on a carrier, whos schedule has me deploying overseas beginning in May, 2008, and returning around the end of November, 2008. Feedback I've been getting from my chain of command leads me to believe that there is no guarantee that I'd get any sort of reprieve to come home early, so that essentially leaves me with 3-4 weeks of being home for separations leave, where I'd be available for face to face interviews. Frankly, that scares me to death having such a short window to find a job, but I am intent on getting out this time around.

An obvious option, although not necessarily optimal, would be to extend for a month or two, in order to have more time available.

I am interested in finding out what other options I might have. Is it possible that short window would be enough time to find a good job and secure it? Is it possible to do the bulk of the interview process while out to sea over the internet? Is it possible to secure a postion, say, just before the deployment, to commence work six or seven months later?

These are the things that are mulling about in my brain.

I'm especially interested to hear from anyone who works at the Prairie Island Plant, or Monticello Plant, as either would be my first choice for work. I'm open to other options as well, and have a few different directions I could go. I am open to operations, maintenance, and also hold a 3377 NEC as a nuclear planner, although I'd prefer operations/maintenance.

Sorry, I got off track for a second. I'm just worried about what will amount to being the biggest transition I've had to go through, with a wife and a couple young ones to worry about as well, I want to do this right, and assure my family that I can make this work.

Thanks for your time!

[Fermi2]

No,

There's preliminary testing you need to do. And about every company wants to see you face to face.

Mike

[hamsamich]

what about unemployent?  massachusetts is offering almost 600$ a week plus 25$ per dependent.  but you might not max out.  it is easier to max out in PA and they are over 500$. not a huge amount of money but enough to tide you over possibly until you get a job. when I started working at Brunswick as an AO I wasn't making so much more than that, but it ain't 1997 anymore, but inflation hasn't went up that much. think about it. save some $$$$ and use unemployment, you've earned it. plus you can take a small break before you begin work again.

[hamsamich]

you could also try to interview in APR, if a company was really interested in you and they needed people, they may allow you to interview early. I have talked to an ops manager and a shift manager from two different utilities who are hiring or have hired recently and they are having quite a few problems hiring qualified people. if you can get up with the manager in the area you want to work and talk to him directly, he could possibly arrange an early interview, not sure about this, i will ask a friend if this is possible. even if he says no or yes, monticello or some other utility might say something different. call them and act interested and ask them!

[LaFeet]

First and foremost... thank you for your time in. 

Secondly, the transaction stuff can never be as bad as a deploymen.... even if you were a target.

Finally... the industry is wide open.   Plants hiring, road tech jobs screaming...and DE stes short handed.

Besides... you have Mike to guide you  (and me)   

Go Broadzilla

[Roll Tide]

Between your OPS and Instrument training, I would think you could get hired quickly.

My personal advice:
Do not extend. You are not desperate for a job! There are good reasons for staying in the Navy, but desperation isn't one of them.
Send resumes out big-time before you deploy. If they offer you a test, go take it. The test will be good for any job in that utility (and you can mention it to another utility if you are deployed when they are ready for you to test). Keep searching the websites of your prospective employers, and even check up on those that are close enough to "back home" that you could stand. Enlist the help of your spouse or a sibling or someone very close to you to help on that search if your internet is limited during deployments (just an assumption on my part). Make sure that person has a good resume to submit for you if needed! Some of the postings are open for a very short time period (TVA was under a week at one point!).
If you get nibbles while on deployment, be open and honest in explaining your situation. Most of these places value your service, and will make any allowances they can for you.
When you get back from deployment, get really busy with the search. If you don't have a job lined up, decide how long you can stand to live on unemployment (TAPS should be able to estimate your unemployment amount from various states, file in PA or MA or any other state that works out in your favor). You can work outages as an instrument tech: Bartlett now owns the biggest contractor.

And thanks for your service!

[Fermi2]

First and foremost... thank you for your time in. 

Secondly, the transaction stuff can never be as bad as a deploymen.... even if you were a target.

Finally... the industry is wide open.   Plants hiring, road tech jobs screaming...and DE stes short handed.

Besides... you have Mike to guide you  (and me)   

Go Broadzilla

LOL Actually I've helped 6 guys here and so far I;m 6 for 6. Also helped two more make it through power school.

I had my resumes out months in advance, but to think anyone is gonna test you and interview you without seeing you, especially if your total experience is Navy then you are dreaming.

Mike

[hamsamich]

salem chemistry TRIED to hire me over the phone after about 3 phone calls. but that was chemtech, not ops.  i wouldn't let them do it, I made them pay to fly me in from Wilmington so I could see the place and meet the other techs.  they were really going to hire me per a phonecall.  my offer letter to start at 26 bucks an hour was fedexxed to my door.

of course Salem may not be the Gem of the industry and I was exactly what they wanted (Navy ELT with commercial operations experience, radwaste to boot). but it CAN be done.

i like broadzillas ideas but don't let the negativity stop you, give it a shot. he hasn't worked at every nuclear plant in the world. give them a call  and try at least.  goood luck

[Fermi2]

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic, no one is going to hire someone who has only naval experience into their Ops Department. Virtually everyone gives some form of the POSS and given the Navy casualty rate on it is over 50% they aren't going to assume he can pass it.

Mike

[hamsamich]

Your probably right, but I think it is worth it to make the phonecall, is all I am saying.  Things are different at different plants, it's not like they are being brought in to be a licensed operator straight away.  Once in a while when you talk to someone on the phone, you just KNOW they are the man. He may be given the green light as long as he can come in and pass the poss at a later date. Yes, the poss is in the way, but some places just love ex-navy nukes (whether it is warrented or not) and if they need people small exceptions and back door deals can be made.

[hamsamich]

oh, and I jsut read the guys post again, he isn't nesc. interested in Ops only. so, re-read his post. not sure if poss is given for every department but maybe.

[hamsamich]

ok, after talking to one shift manager from one plant and an ops manager from another I think I am getting the picture.

both said while it is unlikely they would hire someone without a face to face, it is possible, especially if it was because of the situation the person was in and it wasn't his or her fault.  they say a probationary period is used in which the person will be let go anyway at most plants if a problem arises, so no harm no foul, but if too many of those happen it will cause problems because then another AO class has to happen.

some plants don't even give the poss test, they give another test much easier and the failure rate is very low.

I told them about the conversation here, and they said people from the Duke system and especially TVA are inclined to think that the way they do business is very similar to the way everybody else does, and that might not nesc. be the case.  Just because Duke and TVA do it their way doesn't mean everybody else does it that way.

One of the guys said this, and I quote "we go out of our way to find the best people, and they may not nesc. be the people who can show up exactly when we want them to to start the job, there is some flexibility there".

[Bfjohnson]

I really appreciate all of the insight and encouragement!

I have a friend, (a crusty old retired senior chief), who works at Prairie Island. I'm going to give him a call and see if he can "grease the skids" a little bit for me. I've talked to another guy on my ship who is getting out around the same time I am. He said he would be putting his resume out there by the end of the year, and I think I will do the same. I figure I can make it clear as to what the upcoming availability will be, and just see what happens.

Thanks again! I'll continue to watch for further insight and information!

[rlbinc]

Get out as scheduled in November 2008.
Enjoy Thanksgiving and Christmas with your family.
In early 2009, you will note that many plants hire Initial NLO Trainee candidates. This year, some plants doubled up, and hired 20 instead of 10. The retirement rate in this industry is opening the door of opportunities for people like you.
Flashback a few decades, I got out in July 1985 and had a job immediately.

You worked hard, you deserve a break. Take it. And then do something for yourself that very few people in this industry do - expect the best, do your best, and work only for the best.

http://thesecret.tv/optimists-creed/

Rob

[Fermi2]

Not true. It's actually closer to 55 or so.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

Not true. It's actually closer to 55 or so.

Mike

Mike,

You often make statements about how poorly Navy nukes do in the commercial world and how they generally make bad operators. I am just wondering what, besides your experience, are your sources? e.g. where can I see the data that confirms what you said here? Or am I just supposed to take your word for it? I ask mostly because in my limited experience in, as you say, "the big leagues," things like what you said here do not seem to apply. It turns out 90% or so of the operators here are ex Navy nukes and are doing quite well. The current NLIT class has ex Navy nukes and degreed walk ins and the Navy nukes are out performing the walk ins hand over fist. In my license class the ex Navy nukes are ahead of the pack; even 3 previously licensed individuals, one of which was a shift manager at another utility. It just seems, again from my very limited experience thus far, that the things you say about Navy nukes and their success rate are a little skewed, at least here. Don't get me wrong, I recognize and respect your great amount of experience. I am just trying to correlate it with what I am seeing now, and I think hard data would help me do that instead of waiting 30 years to gather my own. Thanks for your time!.

Justin

[hamsamich]

I think Mike doesn't appreciate ex-navy nuke attitudes that they are so far and away better than everybody else who came into the commercial nuclear world a different way.  I don't like that attitude SOME of them have either, but I try not to let it spill into other thoughts/observations.  Mike's not very good at that.  Gray is a color he can't see very easily.  I love working with good ex-navy nukes. I got to work with a very good ex-navy nuke at Cook Plant in uppers, and he wasn't even an ex-sub guy either. 

[ddklbl]

I think Mike doesn't appreciate ex-navy nuke attitudes that they are so far and away better than everybody else who came into the commercial nuclear world

I think that is one of the funniest things I've read on this board.

[emnuke]

Mike even knows about things he hasn't probably done--ie Distribution System Operators/Dispatchers.  He previously said that anyone can be trained to do that job it is so easy---but funny--I haven't noticed the cleaning lady sitting at the Control desk here yet.

[JustinHEMI05]

I think Mike doesn't appreciate ex-navy nuke attitudes that they are so far and away better than everybody else who came into the commercial nuclear world a different way.  I don't like that attitude SOME of them have either, but I try not to let it spill into other thoughts/observations.  Mike's not very good at that.  Gray is a color he can't see very easily.  I love working with good ex-navy nukes. I got to work with a very good ex-navy nuke at Cook Plant in uppers, and he wasn't even an ex-sub guy either. 

Ah I see. So like when officers think they are the same as CRSs from the get go? Ya that would bug me too knowing what I know now. I have enough experience in the last 6 months to know that the navy nuke program in no way prepares you to step right in and operate a commercial nuke. I was just more curious about the source of numbers like pass rates.

Justin

[Roll Tide]

I have operated Naval Reactors and commercial reactors. To keep it in perspective, the decay heat on a commercial plant is larger than some of the Navy units where I was assigned.

A submarine is small enough that you can attempt to know how everything works in exact detail. Not only the nuke equipment, but A-gang and TM stuff was fair gang for an M-Diver. Plenty of "Section Tracking Parties" were successful because of the nukes assigned; same with Battle Stations and Maneuvering Watch.

A commercial plant is large enough that you quickly get rid of those illusions and determine to know what is REALLY important. If you never figure out that difference, you will not be successful. This important information does include enough detail to get our part of the Distribution System back in service (short of running new lines), as well as other group's jobs that we have to be able to do in an emergency (e.g. I+C and Planning and Management) as defined by NRC criteria.

Mike comes across as rather gruff to many, but his advice has helped quite a few on this board get a job, including me. More than likely, any future job interviews he attends will be when he is hiring, not trying to get hired. That changes the perception a lot. And he has been privy to the pass rates for POSS exams; 50% was about right from my time in Turkey Point.

[JustinHEMI05]

I have operated Naval Reactors and commercial reactors. To keep it in perspective, the decay heat on a commercial plant is larger than some of the Navy units where I was assigned.

A submarine is small enough that you can attempt to know how everything works in exact detail. Not only the nuke equipment, but A-gang and TM stuff was fair gang for an M-Diver. Plenty of "Section Tracking Parties" were successful because of the nukes assigned; same with Battle Stations and Maneuvering Watch.

A commercial plant is large enough that you quickly get rid of those illusions and determine to know what is REALLY important. If you never figure out that difference, you will not be successful. This important information does include enough detail to get our part of the Distribution System back in service (short of running new lines), as well as other group's jobs that we have to be able to do in an emergency (e.g. I+C and Planning and Management) as defined by NRC criteria.

Mike comes across as rather gruff to many, but his advice has helped quite a few on this board get a job, including me. More than likely, any future job interviews he attends will be when he is hiring, not trying to get hired. That changes the perception a lot. And he has been privy to the pass rates for POSS exams; 50% was about right from my time in Turkey Point.

Ya his advice from this board has actually helped guide my job search and interview process. Now I am just trying to understand some of the data that helped to guide me.

Justin

[B.PRESGROVE]

Hey Im new to this post, but I am assuming it is hard to get some shore time while on deployment with a carrier?   I was not in the navy so I have no idea how salt dogs go about thier buisness.  I do know that most of the major utilities will be more than willing to work with someone who has that many years experiance seeing as most of the utilities are a "branch" of the navy anyway.  (get it...you know exnavy guys go into utilities.....and think they are still in navy.......get it.....no?.....sorry bad picture)

[hamsamich]

Yeah, I like alot of Mike's info.  Yeah just gotta go digging a little bit.  Sorta like those 2 for 11$ DVD boxes at wall-mart.  Plenty of good ones in there!  DDKLBL, what's so funny?  Haven't you met a navy nuke with that attitude that they are better than everybody else?  I'm surprised if you haven't, there are plenty of them out there.

[ddklbl]

Yes, I have met many a'nuke who fit that billet. 

Given this quote:

Down south here, I don't believe we have had any navy nuke fail the POSS in the last 10 years.  Degreed personnel and walk-ons have trouble but the nukes normally score above 90%.

And this reply:

Not true. It's actually closer to 55 or so.

Please don't tell me that I am the only one to see the irony in this quote:

I think Mike doesn't appreciate ex-navy nuke attitudes that they are so far and away better than everybody else who came into the commercial nuclear world a different way.

In the absence of hardened empirical data, we are all just talking out of our collective arse. 

[Fermi2]

I help with hiring. I've seen the data on POSS examinations. It's not a rectal pluck.

So far as I know I never once said Navy Operators do poorly in the Commercial Industry. What I SAID was personnel from other backgrounds tend to do just as well if not better. I also stated what an EOOW in the Navy does is not at all comparable to what an SRO does in the commercial world. This is a fact. Being a USN Nuke is not a prerequisite for success in the commercial world.

I really wish someone would point out where I said being a distribution operator is easy. Oddly I can't find that post. I do know one of my ex NLOs is working as a Shift Supervisor at my companies Load Distribution Center and he flat out says it's a lot easier. This guy is one of the best people I ever had working for me. Compared to the day to day grind of a Nuke Control Room it IS easy.

Justin, remember I'm an ex BWR guy so if you need any help just let me know!

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

I help with hiring. I've seen the data on POSS examinations. It's not a rectal pluck.

So far as I know I never once said Navy Operators do poorly in the Commercial Industry. What I SAID was personnel from other backgrounds tend to do just as well if not better. I also stated what an EOOW in the Navy does is not at all comparable to what an SRO does in the commercial world. This is a fact. Being a USN Nuke is not a prerequisite for success in the commercial world.

I really wish someone would point out where I said being a distribution operator is easy. Oddly I can't find that post. I do know one of my ex NLOs is working as a Shift Supervisor at my companies Load Distribution Center and he flat out says it's a lot easier. This guy is one of the best people I ever had working for me. Compared to the day to day grind of a Nuke Control Room it IS easy.

Justin, remember I'm an ex BWR guy so if you need any help just let me know!

Mike

Mike,

Thanks and I appreciate the insights.

Justin

[emnuke]

You don't need any electrical background at all to be an STO or GRid Operator. The best ones are those who have experience in the Commercial Industry whether it be at a Nuke or a Dirt Burner.

Mike

Naw--us Grid Operators/System Operators don't need any electrical background at all to control thousands of volts going through wires to evry major city in the US

[30378wby]

I would just summarize that my experience is completely at odds with anyone claiming that each and every non-ex Navy person performs as well or better than an ex-Navy person.

[Fermi2]

Who said every person of any background is better than every person of any other background?

Best grid Operator I ever knew was an ex Navy Mechanic, no real electrical experience whatsoever.

Give me a week, 10 days tops and I'd be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

[flamatrix99]

I am an ex MM1/SS and the last group of ex navy nukes that were hired to fill a NLO class here came across like they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. We even had one that was trying to tell us that Naval Nuclear Power School was harder and more intense then even commerical lisenced class. He hadn't even been to licensed class. He had only been hired about a week. I had to just laugh at him. My HLO class is through GFES and almost done with systems. I can confidently say the two training programs are not even on the same level. HLO class is the hardest thing I have done.  Doesn't help being an instant SRO and a PWR guy now at a BWR.

[Fermi2]

Initial License Training is probably one of the most intense and hardest training programs in the world. Naval Nuclear Training is nursery school in comparison.

So how do you like the concept of control rods moving up in order to scram the reactor?

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

Initial License Training is probably one of the most intense and hardest training programs in the world. Naval Nuclear Training is nursery school in comparison.

So how do you like the concept of control rods moving up in order to scram the reactor?

Mike

Yup I have to agree with what everyone has said so far. My first 5 months... wait... my only 5 months in the commercial world so far have been the hardest 5 months ever in my nuclear career. NNPP is a good start, but not even close to the level of initial license training. (The first 2 weeks were basically a review of everything I ever learned in the NNPP, to give some perspective. It just took off from there.)

Justin

Justin

[emnuke]

Who said every person of any background is better than every person of any other background?

Best grid Operator I ever knew was an ex Navy Mechanic, no real electrical experience whatsoever.

Give me a week, 10 days tops and I'd be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

Har dee har har--you are a legend in your own mind Mike

[Fermi2]

Actually, It's the truth. Has nothing to do with being delusional. I've seen idiots become good grid operators and I am far from being an idiot. A week, ten days I would be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

[hamsamich]

Viper: In case some of you are wondering who the best is, they are up here on this plaque. [turns to Maverick] Do you think your name will be on that plaque?
Maverick: Yes sir.
Viper: That's pretty arrogant, considering the company here, don't you think?
Maverick: Yes sir.
Viper: I like that in a pilot.

[xobxdoc]

Looks like we need a "Legends of Commercial Nuclear Power" calender

[Fermi2]

Looks like we need a "Legends of Commercial Nuclear Power" calender

LOL

However I stand by my assertion that within 10 days I'd be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

LOL

However I stand by my assertion that within 10 days I'd be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

Vegas is laying 3.5 to 1 in favor with an 8 day over under. I take Mike for 7 days. Anyone else? 

Justin

[PWHoppe]

Vegas is laying 3.5 to 1 in favor with an 8 day over under. I take Mike for 7 days. Anyone else? 

Justin

I'm in, my money's on Mike in 6 

[admiral202]

what about unemployent?  massachusetts is offering almost 600$ a week plus 25$ per dependent.  but you might not max out.  it is easier to max out in PA and they are over 500$. not a huge amount of money but enough to tide you over possibly until you get a job. when I started working at Brunswick as an AO I wasn't making so much more than that, but it ain't 1997 anymore, but inflation hasn't went up that much. think about it. save some $$$$ and use unemployment, you've earned it. plus you can take a small break before you begin work again.

I agree. Everyone says they want to jump right into a job, but when it's all said and done, there is a huge weight lifted off your shoulders when you leave and a big sigh of relief.  Taking some time to really look hard at your options and some much needed rest may give you time to wind down and make better decisions on what you really want to do with the rest of your life.  The transition isn't as easy as you may think from a mental standpoint. 

Save some money for when you leave, apply for school and do some traveling.  That's my recommendation.  Use the unemployment services too.  It will help you out.  I used unemployment while waiting for the fall semester to arrive (got out in March).

[HydroDave63]

LOL

However I stand by my assertion that within 10 days I'd be as good as any grid operator in the country.

Mike

Here's your chance...

http://jobview.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=59407626&JobTitle=Transmission+System+Dispatcher+-+Wadsworth%2c+OH++-+GOE07.1069&q=system+dispatcher&brd=1&cy=us&vw=b&AVSDM=2007-11-13+15%3a50%3a00&pg=1&seq=3

[thenuttyneutron]

Here's your chance...

http://jobview.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=59407626&JobTitle=Transmission+System+Dispatcher+-+Wadsworth%2c+OH++-+GOE07.1069&q=system+dispatcher&brd=1&cy=us&vw=b&AVSDM=2007-11-13+15%3a50%3a00&pg=1&seq=3

http://www.eei.org/practicetests/displayPage POSS or EEI System Operator/Power Dispatching Test, they seem to be the same.  I just finished all my quals for becoming a fully qualified NLO.  Maybe I should start a new qual path to learn some new material