What does the daily job of a nuke entail.

[Derf]

Hello all I am Brandon and I was wondering what the nukes actually did day to day, because it is rather hard to find specific information. Mike before you say anything here is what I already found but was not satisfied with the lack of different first hand views.

Those shades must filter out the Hillary sunrise just over the horizon,....don't count your nuclear chickens yet,.....

The hardest nuke route will be the one you take,..
B'court pretty much always puts out solid, comprehensive analysis, this time I didn't see one, very large, unforseen "oh by the way" on the event horizon,.....
"Needs of the Navy",....
once you sign away your perogatives as a civilian, "Needs of the Navy" trumps all,....
always has, always will,....
most recruiters and OTC interviews will gloss over those words with a quick, fading speech pattern and a "it's just standard jargon for, oh you know wartime stuff, national emergencies, don't worry about it, it almost never happens,......."
omieschmomie you're a smart kid, bright enough to research your options and look for help from folks who've already been where you're contemplating going, ask yourself one thing,....
"if the Navy has all these great things to offer, why are so many 'Type A' ex-navy folks regular contributors to these forums, but so few of them are retirees from that same program?!?",.....
indeed MOST, (not all) of the enlisted ex-Navy types here are six and eight year nukes, not 20+ year retirees,....
you've witnesssed the caliber and work ethic of these folks in thier postings on these pages,....
what about the Navy could drive so many motivated people out of the service when they were almost halfway to retirement and becoming more senior all the time,.....
it's not just the money,....
it's the needs of the Navy,.....
"Needs of the Navy" can be tough over the long haul,....
it's a good reason to go for the Academy anyway you can get it, B'court was dead on with that one,...
the Navy appears to put a little more care and feeding into the Academy grads (particularly thier dependents), and it's understandable, the investment is greater,....
but even for Academy grads (if not more so) it's always "Needs of the Navy"
okay I'm 'bout done now,...
now you can never say you were not warned,....
fair winds and following seas sailor
peace,..."marssim" 

Forgive me for raining on your parade but there's a reason why Navy nuke is chronically undermanned, and at age 32 you may have seen too much of the world at large to long endure the garbage that is part of every junior enlisted mans (or junior officers for that matter) daily existence,....there are advantages to Navy life if it suits you, but if it's the Navy lifestyle that suits you, there are less demanding career paths than Navy nuke with a significantly improved quality of Navy life,....if you're going Navy nuke just for the money advantage I can only counsel that money TRULY DOES NOT buy happiness,....Navy lifestyle is a good thing for some people,....Navy nuke has almost no life,....everybodies gotta dance with them that brought 'em, thing is figuring out who to go with,...
peace,...Marssim

haa ha ha. prince mike.  you seem more kaiser-ish to me.

mm - more laid back, knuckle draggers, largest division, easier to blend in, can get elt and be kings, which is over a prince
et - little more nerdy, spotlighted
em - hard work at times, smell funny, always laying about in an mg set, easier to blend in than say an ET, but not so easy as MM

elt - walk on water, can taste primary coolant and tell you dga long lived, culligan man wanna be COOLEST CATS OUT THERE!

If an ELT ran into maneuvering and said "HELP I AM ON FIRE" I would look at the RO and say "RO, IS THE ELT REALLY ON FIRE" before I pissed on him to put it out.

And yes, I was an ELT.

Oops kinda off topic.

On topic from my experience...

MMs = hardest, suckiest life as far as work load and manning goes. You will always be dirty, and you are generally better at what you do (e.g. turn valves) than the other rates at what they do (e.g. shim rods). Long in port working days, lots of sleepless underway days, and lots of oil and dirt comprise your life. However, when you are doing your job well as a division, there is tons of glory to be had if thats what you are after.

ETs = slack asses that are weird... just weird. They aren't slack asses by choice, but they really rarely have anything real to do anymore with all of this micro processor stuff. If they actually had something to do, they wouldn't be lazy about it. And 8/10 of them don't really understand whats going on when they move rods or something like that, although they will want you to think they are the smartest rate... they really are not.

EMs = Whiniest rate in the universe. If they have ANYTHING to do, they will whine and bitch about it. And god forbid its motor generator cleaning week.... they will walk around with black carbon dust all over them with their shirts off just to prove they they aren't lazy and whiny. No one has ever fallen for it. And if they have nothing to bitch about, they will bitch about not having anything to bitch about.

ELTs = VERY smart, but VERY lazy. There in lies their downfall. They will do MORE work to get out of a job, than it would have taken to actually perform the job. This is where their intelligence ends. They are very good at getting out of work. But they will tell you they are always strapped and have so much to do blah blah blah. Let me tell you, there is NOTHING difficult or hard about any ELTs days... ever. There is one or two things that do suck bad, but those happen so infrequently that MOST ELTs will never see them. Never... EVER trust an ELT. Assume he is lying, and then when he leaves, look up the truth. No matter how many questions you come up with to fire at him, he will have a plausible answer, so its often better to not ask him at all.

So there you have it. Thats based on my experience as a submarine MM/ELT qualified EOOW.



Justin

the job of a Navy nuke is realy no different than the job of boiler techs in the past the only thing that changed is where we get the steam. Have you ever sceen Titanic the sceen with the guys shoveling coal into a boiler thats what the job feels like most of the time (note: we do not litteraly shovel coal) daily tasks maintenance(some helps break the boardom) watch(lots standing in a hot 110F engine room for 5hrs writing temps and press down on a clipboard substitiue voltage and switch possitions for ET an EM) and of course cleaning this is your primary job you are realy joining to become an over paid janitor expect to spend most of your time painting chipping removing rust and vertegries(the green stuff on copper)

Now I know this sounds like a sh!#y life and some times it is nuke power is hard the five years I spent on a CVN contained some of the worst and best days of my life. This is a life of extreams some days you think the place is hell and then other days you are sitting on a beach in _______ sipping cheap drinks. I have seen places in the world I never would have without the navy. Nuke power will offer you a great oportunity both for advancment and pay in the navy as well as your future in the civilian world, but that oportunity comes at a price I think the first lesson I learned as a nuke is nothing in life is free the navy dosen't give us thoes huge bonuses for nothing.

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

Kinda a broad questions and so many answerings, and every one of them are different then the next.  You should try narrowing it down a little, there is so many things in the day to day life of a nuke depending on rate and what phase of the pipeline you are in.  For instance, in A school/Power school expect at least 60 hours a week of school time and study time after school hours.  That estimate may be to much or not enough depending on how well you do and school and how fast you pick up the knowledge being taught.  I assure you, it's like nothing you have done before as far as schooling, it will be faster and more intense than any other schooling you have done.  Then prototype is 12 hr days on rotating shift work going from days to swings to mids then to training week, and there is a certain pattern they follow but it's been a while and I don't remember how it goes.  Then out to sea, that is where everything goes up in the air and is usually unique to a certain ship and individual.  The ships scheduling for at least surface and constantly changing depending on the needs of the navy and what is going on in the world.  It  will also greatly matter who and what your chain of command is like, and the will have the greatest affect on your time in the Navy.  Honestly, if my chain of command would have stayed the same as it was when I first got to the ship, I would have probably re-enlisted.  Yet, about 5 months after i got there, the was a change and our new CO wasn't as cool as my last one so that was the deciding factor for me not re-enlisting.  Other than that, it will be studying, training, drills, qualifying, maintenance, followed by more training and studying.  A lot will depend on what type of worker you are to, usually the guys that work harder get more work cause the isn't any recourse for being a lazy sack of crap and there are a lot of those.  The main thing is, your time in the navy will be different then anyone else's and it is all what you make of it.  A lot of the time sucked for me, but I got a great education out of it and would do it over again if I had it all back to do again just because of the education. 

[Derf]

Ok I will be more specific what does being a nuke entail after all the schooling, like specifically what is it you do on a ship/sub. I know the answer will be different for each rate and all that but each answer is valuable I just would like to know if being a nuke is basically being a glorified mechanic.

[Roll Tide]

Ok I will be more specific what does being a nuke entail after all the schooling, like specifically what is it you do on a ship/sub. I know the answer will be different for each rate and all that but each answer is valuable I just would like to know if being a nuke is basically being a glorified mechanic.

Now that is an excellent question. (I once had a young man report to my (M) Division who was a civilian machinist prior to entering the Navy. He understood little the Recruiter said, and expected to be turning nuclear components out on a lathe... He was an excellent machinist, but MM was not what he expected as a rating.)

The mechanic attribute of the job is only a percentage (let's say 35%). Because not only are you a primary member of the pit crew, but you also get to drive! And operating the nuclear power plant is the reason for 90% of the formal training you get prior to your first sea-going command; you perform maintenance using the other 10% of formal (and much OJT). The guys doing maintenance on the FFG do much of the same maintenance you do on a nuke sub or carrier.

As I have said elsewhere, never trivialize the fact that you are operating a nuclear plant. While operating distillation equipment (making fresh water from salt water) or cooling chilled water for all ship's systems are also performed on other vessels, you must know the impact your actions will have on the Reactor. Warming up a turbine will become routine, but always remember that you are using steam which is affecting the power of the reactor!

After you get out, you will have an opportunity to decide if you prefer the maintenance (mechanic) or operations. Because in commercial power plants, it isn't done by the same people.

[Derf]

I would guess my question to that would then be what does operating actually entail? Is it sitting there mindlessly writing down numbers waiting for someone above you to tell you to move thing a to point b, or is it using your brain to react to what you see to achieve the overall goal of what the person above you said?

[Marlin]

I would guess my question to that would then be what does operating actually entail? Is it sitting there mindlessly writing down numbers waiting for someone above you to tell you to move thing a to point b, or is it using your brain to react to what you see to achieve the overall goal of what the person above you said?

   Why would they send you to a year and half of school if it was going to be mindless? Perhaps the search engine you need may be internal. Everyone takes direction in one way or another. Perhaps relating a story that happened on one of my boats would help. A junior officer rather than giving a broad direction to perform an operation decided to provide valve by valve directions to the mechanical operator. One of the functions was time sensitive to avoid overheating a component in the evolution. When the high temprature alarm was triggered not only was the officer reprimanded but the mechanic was taken to mast (enlisted discipline) for not challenging the direction he should have know would be a problem.
   Sorry about being so snippy I'm taking BZ's job. You will not find what you may expect, every assignment in the Navy will be different due to the ship, facility or people you work with. Generalization is probably the best you can hope for.

[Derf]

Don't worry about being snippy at all because I did not take it that way. But thank you for your answer, because it does help. Telling someone you're looking for an answer you can't find is just as helpful as the answer.

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

As far as watch standing, it could be a little of everything also depending on what you make of it.  Some people wait for someone to tell them to do something and others go looking for something that is wrong or needs to be done.  Above everything though, taking orders is part of the job, but it is also part of your job to tell the Watch Sup or watch Officer that they are wrong if it warrants it.  Countless times have I either witnessed the PPWO giving a wrong order or being told to do something that would jepordize the plant.  It was my responsibility to inform them that the order was wrong and explain why.  The watch officer doesn't have an understanding of the mechanical side you might as a mechanic or the electric plant as an EM.  They mostly stand watch in EOS, or manuevering on subs, and know more about the ET side of nuclear power.  As a propulsion plant drill team member, all hell breaks lose when the PPWO gets flustered with a downed plant, and a startup, and all the indications and simulations we are providing, and I have seen numerous times and order go out to secure a certain pump that is need, or to cross connect when they don't meet the pre-reqs, or start a pump when conditions aren't met.  Bottom line, you could either be a mindless grunt and do what your told wrong or right, or you can think for yourself when your told to start another main feed pump while in contions that would make bad go to worse.  I would give more and more specific examples but a lot of the information is what you would call classified, so I can't.  Believe me though, everything in the Navy is what you make of it, and if your dead set on going into the Navy, personally, there is no other job in the Navy that I would do and nothing that can give you as much education, knowledge, and being marketable after the Navy as Naval Nuclear Power.  If your smart enough, there honestly nothing else WORTH doing in the navy and you would be wasting your time and brain.  There will be times where you will thinking " man this sucks" or "why did I sign up for this" but trust me in the end it is worth it.

[shayne]

Standing watch could mean different things also.  It depends mostly on what is going on.  Sometimes it may mean you are in the plant just looking over all the equipment and taking the hourly readings.  Other times it may be taking actions because something happened, such as turbine trips or other casualties, or that you are performing startups/shutdowns of equipment or the plant.  Drills also provide oportunities to really operate the systems of the plant.  Rate and platform can make a big difference like you stated.  Other times when it was slow and nothing was going on, it wasn't uncommon to see the watchstanders cleaning, painting, or doing some type of maintenance.

[JustinHEMI05]

Don't worry about being snippy at all because I did not take it that way. But thank you for your answer, because it does help. Telling someone you're looking for an answer you can't find is just as helpful as the answer.

You are going to go far in the navy nuke world. Yes, normal underway everything hunky dory watch standing does consist of taking down numbers, lots of numbers. But it is far from mindless. If you allow it to become mindless, then trouble you will be in. You have to be able to recognize abnormal numbers and trends. In order to do that, you have to know what normal is. That only comes from experience. After many months of "mindless" number taking, you will know whats right and what is not. You will know what SOUNDS right and what does not. You will know what SMELLS right and what does not. Mindless??? Far from it. But many a nuke have fallen for allowing it to become mindless... or in other terms... complacent. Now, how good you are as a nuke is really determined when something goes wrong, or that abnormal number pops up. Do you panic and make wrong decisions? Or do you keep your cool and react in accordance with what the plant is telling you? Anyone can take down numbers, its what they do with them when something is wrong that counts. I want someone that can quickly, calmly, and accurately diagnose a problem and combat it to his fullest extent. The only way to do that is to have experience AND knowledge. THAT is what being a navy nuke is (or should be) all about. I hate when people say knowledge is optional.

Justin

[Derf]

You are going to go far in the navy nuke world.

Thank you for the compliment, or at least I am assuming it was one. I should say I am already DEPed in so I am slightly stuck as being a nuke at this point unless I wanted to completely leave the navy. I was eying the officer program and it is hard to tell what is the difference between being an enlisted nuke and an officer? I understand this is a very broad question and hopefully I can narrow it down with some responses.

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

Well, that isn't a very broad question what so ever.  There is a huge difference between an enlisted nuke and an officer and it's some where in the where-abouts of $45,000.  It's the difference of a worker and a manager really.  Also, officer isn't something you just pick-up along they way.  Either you have a degree and get recruited as an officer, or you do a program like Naval Acadamy or STA-21 or others.  Really, as far as the knowledge your taught at nuke school, there really isn't a whole lot of difference, I believe the officers get al in-rate classes vice a mechanic that get MM in-rate and ET/EM out of rate.  Ideally, you would like to have a degree and go in as an officer, but sometimes for certain reasons that just isn't available for certain people so enlisted is the way to go.  Right now though, since your going in as enlisted, look at it as going into the navy as enlisted and not as going into the navy as enlisted and getting an officer program.  Sometimes officer programs are difficult for people to get, and they get bummed when they don't get picked up cause they had their hearts set on it.  Although your chances as a nuke, especially if you do well in school, go way up versus the rest of the rates in the navy. 

[Derf]

I understand that going officer is a thing that you just can't pick up but if you don't have overall goals you can't reach anything. The reason I am not going to drop out of DEP to go to the officer program is honestly I can not afford a degree. The curse of being middle class with four siblings. *A disclaimer for the following statements*: I am not trying to brag just state my thoughts. I would think that I would have a relatively higher chance of making STA-21 because I graduated at 17 and am relatively good with math and science, like right now I am taking calc 3 for fun. I would have to say that learning is my thing so I would think that I would do good in power school and such.*Disclaimer ended* Does it seem reasonable for me to believe that it would be likely for me to be picked up for an officer program?

[Wirebiter]

While being smart is important for an officer program, you must remember that in the Navy, officers are leaders and managers.  You need to not only know the right answer, but know if you don't know the right answer, and then analyze all options presented to you to choose the best one.  Trying to make the jump from enlisted to Officer (like I currently am) requires a good track record on your part.  Taking positions of leadership and responsibility and helping your team/group/division succeed is important.  You will have to present a well focused person to the selection board.  Extra curricular activities and community service are important in assessing your officer potential.  Continued, sustained positive leadership roles over your enlisted Navy time will support your desire for a commission.  You may not get selected your first attempt, but perseverance can pay off and usually weeds out the pretenders from the contenders.

-Rob

[Fermi2]

No in 23 years in this industry it's been nothing but mindless, I never had to think once. Honest.

Mike

[Derf]

No in 23 years in this industry it's been nothing but mindless, I never had to think once. Honest.

Mike

Nice to see that sarcasm has not lost its hold on you after so many years of not thinking. Thank you Wirebiter the info is most helpful. However would you say that it is easier to get into the officer program before or after school?

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

Depends on how you do in each phase of the pipeline.  Before A school or power school is not likely, but it does happen on occassion.  If you do really well in school, there is a very good chance you could get picked up.  Also, if you got Staff pickup or SPU as they are referred to, they have even better odds.  The things is, when you go to an STA interview, they do it by command, and each command ranks the canadites that have put in for it.  So, working on a ship with 5000 people it's a little rough unless your a standout.  Also, not sure if the rules have changed, but I was thinking about it back in prototype to due STA-21, back then you couldn't do the nuke officer program for STA-21 while at a sea command and must be done at a shore command.  No idea why they did it that way they just did, and I'm also not sure if it is still that way.  Usually they guys that do well though in school do get picked up during school depending on when the board decides which is different for each program. 

[JustinHEMI05]

I understand that going officer is a thing that you just can't pick up but if you don't have overall goals you can't reach anything. The reason I am not going to drop out of DEP to go to the officer program is honestly I can not afford a degree. The curse of being middle class with four siblings. *A disclaimer for the following statements*: I am not trying to brag just state my thoughts. I would think that I would have a relatively higher chance of making STA-21 because I graduated at 17 and am relatively good with math and science, like right now I am taking calc 3 for fun. I would have to say that learning is my thing so I would think that I would do good in power school and such.*Disclaimer ended* Does it seem reasonable for me to believe that it would be likely for me to be picked up for an officer program?

You couldn't get a full ride somewhere? I got a full ride with a similar background.

Justin

[Wirebiter]

Nice to see that sarcasm has not lost its hold on you after so many years of not thinking. Thank you Wirebiter the info is most helpful. However would you say that it is easier to get into the officer program before or after school?

S1W is correct.  Currently, you can only apply for a Nuke Officer commission (via Seaman to Admiral 21 program) as a student or staff at A-school, Power school, or Prototype.  Fleet sailors are not eligible.  As far as "easier to get in before or after school", I can't honestly say, but based upon the inputs required to apply to the STA-21 program, the less time you have in the navy, the more important your high school and college grades will be.  Also, any leadership jobs/roles taken within a community prior to enlistment will be very important for someone with little time in the Navy.  Another consideration is prior college credit.  The Navy is forking over tax-payer money to send you to school for a max of 3 years.  If you have taken the initiative to pursue off-duty education and take college C.L.E.P. exams/AP courses (thereby starting your college career without waiting on the Navy to put you through), thats less money and time the Navy has to invest in order to get a return.  The people I personally know that got selected had many college credits under their belt, above average evaluations, and had their minds made up well before they enlisted that they were going to be successful people. 

For me, I was not a stand out person through High school, or even the few semesters of college.  I did my work because I had to, not because I wanted to.  I attempted to enter the Navy via the Naval academy, but just wasn't that driven to pursue it.  I still joined the Navy Nuke program and got my butt handed to me in "A" and Power schools.  I did a little better in prototype.  There was no way that I would have gotten selected for a commission based upon my poor Nuke grades and 3.0 high school GPA.  I had to build my case for an Officer program in the fleet.  Out here my work ethic improved and leadership positions presented themselves to me.  12 years later, I have applied twice for STA-21 and was an alternate on my first attempt.  I'll find out here in about 2 weeks if my second and final attempt is successful.

If you do enlist in the Navy, you will come across people who you can tell are just along for the ride.  They joined because it sounded like something to do and they haven't really made up their minds about what their life will be about.  They are not bad people....usually.  You will also meet people who are driven to achieve success in what ever role they must fill.  Perhaps you are one of them.  They are not happy with the minimum or the average.  For the most part these people are the ones that the Navy is looking for to become Officers.
I remember being told by many people when I was pumped through the pipeline that more Nukes are lost to commissioning programs than to any other reason.  It seems to be true.

-Rob

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

I remember being told by many people when I was pumped through the pipeline that more Nukes are lost to commissioning programs than to any other reason.  It seems to be true.

I would have to completely disagree with that, or your on a sub/carrier that is opposite of the norm.  I mean, I could have been on the ship the was opposite of the norm but I doubt it.  Most nuke are lost to either A.) going nuts(i.e. suicidal, etc.), B.)  or the fact that the Navy doesn't pay half of what a nuke can make in the civilian world.  I justified case 'B' by saying the Navy had given me a great education and OJT and I was paying it back, but that only went up to my six years and that $60K bonus was just not enough.  Some people do it though regardless of money, just not many, and in my time I had only met one.  Don't take me wrong, the six years was very well spent and as I have said before I would do it all over again knowing what I know now.

[landlubber]

Nice to see that sarcasm has not lost its hold on you after so many years of not thinking. Thank you Wirebiter the info is most helpful. However would you say that it is easier to get into the officer program before or after school?

This post comes from a slightly different angle: s1w and Wirebiter are speaking from their own personal experiences, while I have watched hundreds of outstanding enlisted nukes and officers at prototype. If you are smart enough to be an enlisted Navy nuke, then you are smart enough to get a college degree before you join the Navy.  Also, getting a college degree is less work than your pipeline from boot camp to showing up on your boat. (I can justify those statements if anyone thinks I am smoking something.) The main difference is that in the Navy, you have someone to force discipline on you. In college, you have to discipline yourself. That ain't easy.

The reason I am not going to drop out of DEP to go to the officer program is honestly I can not afford a degree. The curse of being middle class with four siblings. *A disclaimer for the following statements*: I am not trying to brag just state my thoughts. I would think that I would have a relatively higher chance of making STA-21 because I graduated at 17 and am relatively good with math and science, like right now I am taking calc 3 for fun. I would have to say that learning is my thing so I would think that I would do good in power school and such.*Disclaimer ended*

I disagree about the financial side. If you WANT to go to college more than anything, then you can find a way to go to a state university and work your way through college. I know the financial aid cards are stacked against you (been there), but it can be done if you want it.

As for how smart you are, I do not think you are bragging, and I believe you are smart. Unfortunately, most nukes are also smart, it is nearly impossible to stand out as a sailor for being smart.

Getting an officer program is easier before you enter the Navy through NROTC, NUPOC or Annapolis.

Someone else said it already: it all depends on your goals.

Best of luck.

[drainbamage]

I digress, and apologize, but this seemed to be the most appropriate place to ask this question:

Reading through this forum and then having had the opportunity to speak with some ex-navy nukes, my question is this. As a MM does your job end up boiling down to being a glorified mechanic?

I ask this because i've been told repeatedly (and am unable to find topics to the contrary) that the bulk of the work relates to maintenance, janitorial work and logging. I can't fathom such an extensive and in-depth training program, granting so many accredited college hours putting graduates in a seemingly remedial setting.

Is this true, but the training relates more-so to the nature of what you're working with? Or does the school prepare you to handle matters more extensive then the aforementioned tasks, yet could not be discussed due to the nature of their confidentiality.

I'll grant that I may be missing something obvious, but then I suppose that's why I would be asking people who know best.

Thanks for whatever light you can shine.

 

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

Reading through this forum and then having had the opportunity to speak with some ex-navy nukes, my question is this. As a MM does your job end up boiling down to being a glorified mechanic?

It sure is, to tell you the truth your just a glorified janitor.  A janitor is just a glorified toliet scrubber, so in fact you are actually just a glorifed toilet scrubber.  Really think about the question, is the navy going to pay a large sum of money to train you for 18 months just to be a conventional MM when they go through a 8 week A-school. 

[drainbamage]

It sure is, to tell you the truth your just a glorified janitor.  A janitor is just a glorified toliet scrubber, so in fact you are actually just a glorifed toilet scrubber.  Really think about the question, is the navy going to pay a large sum of money to train you for 18 months just to be a conventional MM when they go through a 8 week A-school. 

Which would be the point of my question.

I can't fathom such an extensive and in-depth training program, granting so many accredited college hours putting graduates in a seemingly remedial setting.

I'll grant that I may be missing something obvious, but then I suppose that's why I would be asking people who know best.

[Marlin]

I digress, and apologize, but this seemed to be the most appropriate place to ask this question:

Reading through this forum and then having had the opportunity to speak with some ex-navy nukes, my question is this. As a MM does your job end up boiling down to being a glorified mechanic?

I ask this because i've been told repeatedly (and am unable to find topics to the contrary) that the bulk of the work relates to maintenance, janitorial work and logging. I can't fathom such an extensive and in-depth training program, granting so many accredited college hours putting graduates in a seemingly remedial setting.

Is this true, but the training relates more-so to the nature of what you're working with? Or does the school prepare you to handle matters more extensive then the aforementioned tasks, yet could not be discussed due to the nature of their confidentiality.

I'll grant that I may be missing something obvious, but then I suppose that's why I would be asking people who know best.

Thanks for whatever light you can shine.

   You are primarily trained as an operator, but as noted the ships don't have a housekeeping staff to wash your sheets or clean up after you.  Operation, maintenance, and testing are your primary function but be prepared to scrub floors, clean bilges, and any other nasty job that has to be done. If you go to a sub you will find yourself wearing many more hats with no deck crew you can count on washing dishes, loading stores, handle mooring lines, painting and then painting some more.

[drainbamage]

   You are primarily trained as an operator, but as noted the ships don't have a housekeeping staff to wash your sheets or clean up after you.  Operation, maintenance, and testing are your primary function but be prepared to scrub floors, clean bilges, and any other nasty job that has to be done. If you go to a sub you will find yourself wearing many more hats with no deck crew you can count on washing dishes, loading stores, handle mooring lines, painting and then painting some more.

Thanks.

[Wirebiter]

I would have to completely disagree with that, or your on a sub/carrier that is opposite of the norm.  I mean, I could have been on the ship the was opposite of the norm but I doubt it.  Most nuke are lost to either A.) going nuts(i.e. suicidal, etc.), B.)  or the fact that the Navy doesn't pay half of what a nuke can make in the civilian world.  I justified case 'B' by saying the Navy had given me a great education and OJT and I was paying it back, but that only went up to my six years and that $60K bonus was just not enough.  Some people do it though regardless of money, just not many, and in my time I had only met one.  Don't take me wrong, the six years was very well spent and as I have said before I would do it all over again knowing what I know now.

I should have specified during your first enlistment.  Doing your six years and out is not considered a "loss". 

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

I should have specified during your first enlistment.  Doing your six years and out is not considered a "loss". 

How do you figure?  Haven't you noticed a huge gap between the new nubs and the 16, 17, etc.  By the way you refer to it, there isn't much to be lost when so many people are getting out after six. 

[Wirebiter]

How do you figure?  Haven't you noticed a huge gap between the new nubs and the 16, 17, etc.  By the way you refer to it, there isn't much to be lost when so many people are getting out after six. 

Apparently I seem to be in an unusual command and don't see the time in service gap you are referring to.  My current command has lost 3 first term nukes to commissioning programs since I arrived here.  During the same amount of time, we have lost one to hardship discharge and may lose a second one to body fat standards.  Without hard, statistical facts, my comment cannot be validated.  It was merely an observation   I have made with a power school instructor's comment still in my mind.

It would be nice to see any NAVPERS retention numbers on first term Nukes.  I imagine those numbers aren't shown to too many eyes.

[DDMurray]

A very interesting thread.  Are you a glorified janitor?  I'm sure sometimes it feels like it.  That would make me a glorified janitorial supervisor.  Sometimes I feel like that.  I think it's important to remember that you are responsible for operating and maintaining a nuclear power plant.  Think about that.  I live about three miles from the base where there may be up to 10 or more nuclear reactors.  We have a responsibility to maintain the public confidence and trust. 
    Watchstanding where you just take the readings without analyzing is boring, if that's what you do when you stand watch.  We went to nuke school so that we'd know more than just taking down some numbers.  Granted, it's hard to remember that sometimes when you've lost sleep or when cleaning the bilge is the most important assignment of the day but, the good watchstanders do the little things (roving their spaces, looking ahead at upcoming evolutions, getting ready for the next qual, staying on top of cleanliness) that make the time go by faster and show your potential to be a good leader and supervisor.
   In port (& someimes at sea) you will get a chance to work on equipment.  In my experience, the good watchstanders are generally the good technicians because they pay attention and learn by staying engaged with what's going on.  I was a spaz until I started "getting dirty" and doing what I needed to do to move up in the food chain.  It took almost two years on board my first sub until I was finally given real responsibility (i.e. put in charge of major maintenance that was underway or key event limiting).  Some guys get there much faster, some never get there at all.   As Judge Smails said, "The world needs ditch diggers too."  If you don't take charge, someone else will eventually.  Don't underestimate the value of always doing a good job, no matter what the task is.  Enough drivel, would you like some of this kool aid?

[landlubber]

If you don't take charge, someone else will eventually.  Don't underestimate the value of always doing a good job, no matter what the task is.  Enough drivel, would you like some of this kool aid?

Amen, Derek.

Pass me the kool aid.

I beg to differ on one point, however: There aren't enough people willing to be in charge that have the supervisory/leadership/management skills to do it right.  I think NaVLi4 will agree with me, and probably LDO4CNO as well. Finding people who are willing to take responsibility for the big jobs is never easy. Finding good people is ever harder.

If you want to be "the man" (or "woman"), then there really is no competition.

[LDO4CNO]

landlubber,
Unfortunately there are those in our program that feel the correct way to lead is from the Goat Locker, Wardroom, Stateroom etc.  I think that is the minority though.   I am still confident though that we have a disproportionately high percentage of Good Leaders who lead from the front if you will.   They are out there. 

[Marlin]

Leadership qualities are not easy to quantify. If they were, PHDs would be in charge of everything but frequantly it is the C student party boy or drop out that heads many companies, (i.e. the high IQs work for the nimble minds). Working in the gray areas, balancing authority and responsibility with a good focus on the job at hand is not always as easy as it seems for most people. My last patrol I was stuck in the goat locker so they could work on me to reenlist, not very pleasent for a first class PO. The chiefs I respected were the ones who did not tell me how good they and chiefs in general were. I still rmember an E-9 chief that spoke very little but when he did you better (and should) be listening. Since I have been out I have worked with and learned from those who do the right thing by the company, by the employee and by the customer. There will always be someone unhappy with what you do, you cannot please everyone and to try is a sure road to failure. Where I'm going with this is not everyone who wants to stand up should and those who should do not always take the call. Case in point is Colin Powell whom I would have liked to have seen in the Presidential race.

General Colin Powell's Rules

1) It ain't as bad as you think. It will look better in the morning.
2) Get mad, then get over it.
3) Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it.
4) It can be done!
5) Be careful what you choose. You may get it.
6) Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision.
7) You can't make someone else's choices. You shouldn't let someone else make yours.
Check small things.
9) Share credit.
10) Remain calm. Be kind.
12) Have a vision. Be demanding.
13) Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers.
14) Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier.
 

Boy are we off topic. 

[rlbinc]

I was amused by going to school for 9 months to be an Electronics Technician, then a year of Nuke School and Prototype, only to be handed a greenie and a foxtail at my first ship, USS LONG BEACH. I thought I was the world's most highly trained janitor. After a few more years, I thought I was the world's lowest hourly paid Reactor Operator.

In retrospect, I was right on both accounts, but had the capability to do something better for myself and family.

If you learn your lessons well - you can write your own ticket in this industry.
If you do the minimum - you can get a dead end job in this industry.

If it sounds like KARMA, welcome to enlightenment.

[Fermi2]

Marlin,

Hey Powell stole my rules!

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

I agree with landlubber on the whole leadership thing.  On the Stennis we had a saying, "Leadership through attrition," and I believe it to be true.  Honestly, I found it hard to find a leader, a.k.a kahki, I respected for their abilities.  Some people were just plain incompetent, and those are the people that stay in cause they wouldn't be able to make it any where else.  I would say most people where like that.  In my six years I meet probably three people that I felt were people worth respecting.  One was my LPO when I first got to the ship and then he became a chief and now is becoming an CWO in about a month.  The second was the RO when I first got there who was extremely intellegent which I respected yet I else like the fact that he would show you just as much respect as you showed him.  There is not to many people that can reach Captian and still respect the newest blue shirt to the ship, and that is probably the hardest trait to find in a leader that is in the navy.  The second was a guy who made senior in under 11 years and got out around 13 cause the navy didn't have anything left to offer him, so he decided to move on.  

Oh, wirebiter, I don't mean to make sound like your wrong.  It may very well be possible things are different at your command.  I've only been on one ship and based on my experience I don't see that many people staying in.  I would love to see what the attrition rate is though, cause I really think it is the lowest of the low.  I think it would be an interesting set of numbers to look at.  Speaking of which, if anyone has any idea of what the real numbers maybe and not just speculations you should let us know.

[Rad Sponge]

Daily routine:

Report
Wait
Listen
Work
Clean
Train
Work
Report
Wait
Listen
Clean
Study
Sleep

Repeat

[Marlin]

Marlin,

Hey Powell stole my rules!

Maybe these look familiar too...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47132/Colin-Powell-on-Leadership

[JustinHEMI05]

landlubber,
Unfortunately there are those in our program that feel the correct way to lead is from the Goat Locker, Wardroom, Stateroom etc.  I think that is the minority though.   I am still confident though that we have a disproportionately high percentage of Good Leaders who lead from the front if you will.   They are out there. 

I want some of what he is drinking.

Justin

[Finalman]

... I believe the officers get all in-rate classes vice a mechanic that get MM in-rate and ET/EM out of rate.

This is true, but you would be surprised what sort of grades that the officers here are making and are proud of, as I heard in the P-way the other day, most grades from officers are 2.6-2.9s... and they believe they are doing well....

[s1wlightning@msn.com]

This is true, but you would be surprised what sort of grades that the officers here are making and are proud of, as I heard in the P-way the other day, most grades from officers are 2.6-2.9s... and they believe they are doing well....

The thing is, the officers will one day be standing PPWO or EOOW and have to know the material inside and out.  Unlike the enlisted side in which the school has changed from a check valve to a pump, they need to be able to know when their brand new 3rd Class Feed Pump Watch is gonna secure a MFP greater than 50% and realize that's wrong.  I'm sure the standards for them have changed a little but it can't be by much.  On the other hand, I know from first hand experience there are some EM's, MM's and ET's that should have never made it through power school.  You will hear that from time to time in the years to come.  I wanted to get off the ship and out of the navy as fast as possible before something really bad happened.  Now, there were some Officers out there that were really bad watchstanders that made even worse Division officers.  I just think the ratio is a lot smaller.  You'll be hard pressed to find a good young nuke these days.  My advice to you, when you get to you boat or ship, find the best worker/watchstander down there and suck every bit of knowledge out of him, what you did in power school won't mean a thing once you get there.

-Adam

[Cycoticpenguin]

This is true, but you would be surprised what sort of grades that the officers here are making and are proud of, as I heard in the P-way the other day, most grades from officers are 2.6-2.9s... and they believe they are doing well....

if they are trying their best, then they are doing well. I got a 3.2 and I did horrible in powerschool. Shame on you.

[93-383]

Read the PDF book on this page http://www.romaka.net/blog/george/ it is by far the best representation of life in the nuclear navy

[Cycoticpenguin]

Read the PDF book on this page http://www.romaka.net/blog/george/ it is by far the best representation of life in the nuclear navy

good read, thanks (someoen give him a karma for me! )