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Mnemorath

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PRT Failures?
« on: Nov 08, 2007, 06:48 »
I hate PRT's on shore duty. I can pass them without issue but have failed one and maybe another due to fat. Navy policy says three failures and your out.

So, is there anything bad about beings ad-sep'd from the Navy due to PRT failures as far as the civilian side of Nuke power is concerned?

Offline 93-383

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 08, 2007, 07:47 »
I'm not positive but I don't think it's and adsep it think it's a medical discharge. And in that case your medical record is covered by privacy act issues so your employer probably should not be able to find out.

Mnemorath

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 08, 2007, 08:24 »
It is an Ad-Sep with a OTH discharge.

McBride

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 08, 2007, 09:13 »
It is an Ad-Sep with a OTH discharge.
That, ladies and gents is a load of poo.  >:(

It would be an ad-sp with RE code of RE3T.  Your discharge is honorable, and you keep all of your bennies.  I know, been there; done that.  Now I am talking with a National Guard recruiter about the possibilities of going back as a reservist.  I currenty volunteer with the 20th Special Forces Group (Airborne) in Birmingham, AL.  My recruiter's name is Danny Crosby, and if you want more information, I can get it for you. 

RE-3T means you will never get back into the NAVY (which incldes Marines).  They will tell you that you can never serve anywhere, which is false.  If I am not mistaken, the Army has no RE-3T and neither does the National Guard.  I have heard of one Air Force guy getting in after RE-3T from the Navy.

That said, I regret being put out for weight, not because it blotted my record (hint: NOBODY but you really knows or cares) but because I felt like it was a failure in my life, and that I did not live up to an oath I made.  Once you let them sep you out, you will always know that you did not finish your obligation.  If you want to stay in, let your command know.  If you demonstrate by your actions that you truly want to stay, they will probably find a way of keeping you around (also, if you're worth their time).

Regards,
McBride


Wirebiter

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 08, 2007, 09:35 »
I brought up this topic a few months or more, ago.  It should still be on this forum.  The thread was entitled "Food for Freedom returns".  There was some good discussion about it if I recall.

-Rob

Mnemorath

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 08, 2007, 10:01 »
Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.

EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2007, 10:01 by Mnemorath »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 08, 2007, 10:21 »
Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.

EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.

After staying in for bonuses, panic re-enlisting because you are afraid is the second worst reason to stay in. But thats neither here nor there, I just had to say it. :)

Jusitn

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 09, 2007, 08:04 »
Thanks for all the replies.

I read thru that thread Wirebiter. Lots of good gouge. I really hope the seperation pay is still active. I would owe the Navy ALOT of money since I re-enlisted in Feb05 to the tune of $60k.

I like my job and I like the Navy. I would rather not be seperated over a few pounds. After all I have a family to think about and the uncertainty of civilain life is a little scary after the near decade spent in uniform.
EDIT: maybe we can get a mod to merge the two threads.

Don't sweat becoming a nuke civilian. You'll be able to provide for your family, no problem. Major energy companies are hiring beau coup right now. I think Exelon is trying to hire nearly 80 new operators just for the Pennsylvania plants alone.

They are not the only one, either. Staffing studies indicate you better be putting your candidates in now for NLO/RO/SRO/STA to keep up with the attrition of an aging work-force, etc.

Think about this. This so called "nuclear renaissance" aint gonna happen if there are no qualified bodies to operate these new wam-o-dyne  plants.

Its not like some voice from the sky is saying "If you build them, they will come".

Trust me man, stay if you really love the Navy, but if its about money and benes and family, seek out a new career in commericial.

Peace.


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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 09, 2007, 08:13 »
Two guys in 8007 were discharged for "Failure to maintain military standards" after not graduating NPS and promptly hired by VEPCO (now Dominion).  I realize this is dated information, but they were hired for their obvious trainability based on their GPA not body fat.
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Samabby

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 09, 2007, 09:15 »
" over a few pounds. "

First of all, get honest with yourself.

Mnemorath

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 09, 2007, 05:08 »
" over a few pounds. "

First of all, get honest with yourself.

Lets see, the max weight for my hieght of roughly 6'1-2" is 206-211lbs. I weigh about 215-220 depending on what I wear. Thats only a few pounds.

Offline cincinnatinuke

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 09, 2007, 05:50 »
Sure........But what happens when you put both feet on the scale? ;D

He could obviously tell alot about your weight by the way you type.

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #12 on: Mar 10, 2011, 05:03 »
On the subject of PRT's, I recently submitted this article the Navy Times in response to their recent articles on the PRT.
http://www.posterwall.com/blog.php?b=2201

JustinHEMI05

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #13 on: Mar 10, 2011, 05:37 »
It is the military, there are standards. It is pretty simple. You have to cut your hair and stay in shape. Where is the miscommunication?

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #14 on: Mar 10, 2011, 06:09 »
It is the military, there are standards. It is pretty simple. You have to cut your hair and stay in shape. Where is the miscommunication?
I wrote this in response to the article in the Navy Times saying that we need 3 mile runs and prt's given without notice and replacing situps with pullups. I am not arguing against promoting health and fitness.I believe that it has a role in the military, but lets not pretend that this is in anyway an accurate assesment of "readiness." Are the rigors of battle going to be 80% easier on a male every 5 years and easier for a female by a factor of 2?  My argument was that we are seeing this continous press on the PRT's and that the hype and attention we are giving it is only masking real problems faced by the Navy today. We are at a time where the equipment is getting more complex and the crews are getting smaller; I wrote this to suggest that we find another source of selection criteria to cut our sailors that might actually make the NAV stronger. I am also arguing against the notion that waistlines are an automatic indicator of performance or value to the NAV. I think that issues as signifigant as this should be pondered in a time of peace with no conflicts or internal issues. This issue keeps coming up and continues to push in the wrong direction.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #15 on: Mar 10, 2011, 06:25 »
I would agree, marine like standards are not necessary.  Some are though. Those that don't meet them, suffer the consequences, just like any other standard not met.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #16 on: Mar 10, 2011, 06:51 »
 Yes we have these conditions to meet. But instead of "punishing" people for not being in the best of shape, lets give them an opportunity to get out and get in shape to begin with. Theres no incentive other then ramifications to be in any kind of shape. I guess somewhat of a tool, but a carrot dangling on a stick may work better. Provide adequate time off, give training (not everyone knows HOW to get in shape to begin with), arrange better prt sessions, etc. In the nuke world, its busy busy busy, and oh hey, make sure you hit the gym on the way home ok?

I work out, I enjoy weight lifting and it makes me feel good. Other people like "watching the game" with a few beers to unwind. Its just different strokes for different folks.

As i told drayer, the military has a certain set of standards for a reason, and theres an image to be upheld there. A "fat, out of shape" person is not what you think of when you think of someone in the military. Physical requirements of the job? If that was the case, little miss 90 pound sunshine should have to do the same amount of pushups as myself. a 3 mile run is completely ridiculous in my opinion though. Not too much 3 mile running to do out to sea (sans treadmill of course).


drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #17 on: Mar 10, 2011, 06:58 »
I agree that issue will probably not go away in the time that I am following it, I just felt the need to write a reply to this publication in reference to this article. I get so tired of topsiders who do nothing but workout wanting to be rewarded even more for it. I'm also at a place where I get a chance to see just how much money we are spending to replace and fix the expensive equipment that the topsiders don't know how to work on. I would like to see the nav chase higher scoring talent by any means and put them in places outside of the nuke community. I would like to see our downsizing emphasise knowledge, vice waistlines...

Look at the most serious incident in the time that I have served... The fire on CVN-73... did the firefighters face the same fire or were the older men fighting a 2 minute slower fire? Did the bottles on the girls weigh half as much? Do valves require more or less muscle to operate based on who is turning them? The test is flawed and the standard needs to be updated. We aren't storming the beaches these days...

withroaj

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #18 on: Mar 13, 2011, 01:29 »
DISCLAIMER: This really only applies to Nimitz-Class CVN life.  SSN life doesn't really afford the facilities to stay in shape with an aggressive OPTEMPO.

For what it's worth (at least where I'm currently working -- world's finest east coast CVN), folks aren't getting kicked out for PRT failures.  Sure, they are ineligible to transfer and their careers get torpedoed when evals are capped at "significant problems," but they can serve their enlistments and separate with honorable discharges at the end.

Fitness in the Navy comes down to time management on individual and divisional levels.  If you present a plan to your chain of command and DEMONSTRATE RESULTS, you don't have to meet up with the department on a softball field to do calisthenics ankle deep in goose poo.  If you have a chubby bunny in your work center, he/she doesn't even necessarily have to attend the largely ineffective FEP sessions.  My division right now is big into fitness.  We have a few people struggling with body fat.  We worked together with the chain of command to allow the heftier fellers to avoid FEP, instead going to the weight room with the avid lifters.  Instead of doing four-count calf raises people get a real workout.  Instead of keeping a silly diet journal (apparently now part of FEP) people get to burn the calories they eat.

We manage to do this while maintaining a pretty demanding OPTEMPO and a five-and-dime watch rotation, because we're willing to work together as a team (augmenting watches whenever allowed and having an "accountabilibuddy" system) to make sure everybody gets time to work out.  We're probably the only CVN division in existence that doesn't accept "that's not my job" as an answer to operational and maintenance tasking, because we work together to get our s**t done so we can go to the gym.

Strangely enough, by working out together we also wind up being a more cohesive group in general.  We do pretty damn well on inspections and VIP visits because we don't lock ourselves into our collateral duty based specialties.  I see other divisions standing around in their spaces, waiting on others to finish "their" work so they can all go home (or to berthing, etc.).  We get together and git-r-done so we can go to the gym.

I guess I'm getting at the idea that, while I don't think being chubby makes a person a worse operator/technician, embracing the buzzword "culture of fitness" seems to make a group/unit/workcenter tighter.  In addition to looking and feeling better, improved confidence and divisional morale; it could be argued that people who take better care of themselves sometimes take better care of their responsibilities.  When 80% of the force is between the ages of 20 and 26 and required to be healthy enough for physical activity, there's not a real reason to be out of shape on an A4W ship (sea-going -- shipyard is a whole other animal, requiring a greater deliberate effort to stay in shape) and out of shape.  It just takes an honest effort from the division to keep everyone healthy.  If 100% of your division is not on the watchbill and you have PRT failures, one could suggest that the failure itself was a team effort.

/pep talk, rant, soapbox, high horse

JustinHEMI05

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #19 on: Mar 13, 2011, 01:37 »
I didn't nor will I, read any of that, but I just wanted to say...

"Whoa... long time no see."

:)

withroaj

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #20 on: Mar 13, 2011, 01:50 »
Been a busy year.  I figured I'd rant here just because it's been a while.  The argument itself is useless.  I just felt the need to post something.

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #21 on: Mar 13, 2011, 01:55 »
DISCLAIMER: This really only applies to Nimitz-Class CVN life.  SSN life doesn't really afford the facilities to stay in shape with an aggressive OPTEMPO.

For what it's worth (at least where I'm currently working -- world's finest east coast CVN), folks aren't getting kicked out for PRT failures.  Sure, they are ineligible to transfer and their careers get torpedoed when evals are capped at "significant problems," but they can serve their enlistments and separate with honorable discharges at the end.
of, he/she dssions.  My division right now is big into fitness.  We have a few people struggling with body fat.  We workedI guess I'm getting at the idea that, while I don't think being chubby makes a person a worse operator/technician, embracing the buzzword "culture of fitness" seems to make a group/unit/care of their responsibilities.  When 80% of the force is between the ages of 20 and 26 and required to be healthy enough for physical activity, there's not a real reason to be out of shape on an A4W ship (sea-going -- shipyard is a whole other animal, requiring a greater deliberate effort to stay in shape) and out of shape.  It just takes an honest effort from the division to keep everyone healthy.  If 100% of your division is not on the watchbill and you have PRT failures, one could suggest that the failure itself was a team effort.
/pep talk, rant, soapbox, high horse
It was my experience that the shipyard brought the pierside cafe and roach coach entirely too close and led our division to pack on some pounds. The article that I wrote was in response to a Navy Times issue that declared sailors want 3 mile runs given with no notice and pull ups replacing situps. They acted as if the fitness standards we currently have in place are just terrible and that we need to cut down big time by making the standards harder. I wrote the column to give the idea that if we want to cut that maybe we should be doing it in the area of knowledge and job performance. I have never seen a relationship between waistline and job performance and get so urked when these clowns who do nothing but workout and wear a uniform between bmr study sessions cry about it needing to be a bigger emphasis. I think the age of modern warfare and high tech weapons systems should lead us into recruiting the kind of sailor who can actually operate them. I never stormed a beach or saw a condition that a big guy couldn't handle. I remember plenty of In Standards sailors requirng help operating equipment and falling out in the heat. I also argue the accuracy that it is in anyways an indicator of readiness. While I was on Ike, they kicked a few out for it on 06' but then realized it created manning issues so after that the fat kids just stayed onboard for whatever time they had left. Maybe if it were the marines, but it isn't like that. My division was never into fitness....ever. I wrote a response to that silly publication and hope it gets put in the paper to piss off some topsiders. Nothing makes me happier than seeing them getting their panties in a wad.
« Last Edit: Mar 13, 2011, 02:03 by drayer54 »

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #22 on: Mar 13, 2011, 02:39 »
It was my experience that the shipyard brought the pierside cafe and roach coach entirely too close and led our division to pack on some pounds. The article that I wrote was in response to a Navy Times issue that declared sailors want 3 mile runs given with no notice and pull ups replacing situps. They acted as if the fitness standards we currently have in place are just terrible and that we need to cut down big time by making the standards harder. I wrote the column to give the idea that if we want to cut that maybe we should be doing it in the area of knowledge and job performance. I have never seen a relationship between waistline and job performance and get so urked when these clowns who do nothing but workout and wear a uniform between bmr study sessions cry about it needing to be a bigger emphasis. I think the age of modern warfare and high tech weapons systems should lead us into recruiting the kind of sailor who can actually operate them. I never stormed a beach or saw a condition that a big guy couldn't handle. I remember plenty of In Standards sailors requirng help operating equipment and falling out in the heat. I also argue the accuracy that it is in anyways an indicator of readiness. While I was on Ike, they kicked a few out for it on 06' but then realized it created manning issues so after that the fat kids just stayed onboard for whatever time they had left. Maybe if it were the marines, but it isn't like that. My division was never into fitness....ever. I wrote a response to that silly publication and hope it gets put in the paper to piss off some topsiders. Nothing makes me happier than seeing them getting their panties in a wad.

SOME OF US did go to the gym drayer ;) I agree with your standards comment. My equal rebuttal would be "if these physical requirements are so demanding, why do females and males have different standards?" Last time I checked, lady sailors were doing the same jobs as male sailors.... why do they get a different set of standards?

The issue you're going to have convincing "big navy" is they are set standards, and you are accountable when you arent "in standards". It's to appease the public eye with a fit, in shape navy that fits the mental mold when you think "sailor".


withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?




« Last Edit: Mar 13, 2011, 02:40 by Charlie Murphy »

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #23 on: Mar 13, 2011, 02:55 »
SOME OF US did go to the gym drayer ;) I agree with your standards comment. My equal rebuttal would be "if these physical requirements are so demanding, why do females and males have different standards?" Last time I checked, lady sailors were doing the same jobs as male sailors.... why do they get a different set of standards?

The issue you're going to have convincing "big navy" is they are set standards, and you are accountable when you arent "in standards". It's to appease the public eye with a fit, in shape navy that fits the mental mold when you think "sailor".

withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?
/quote]
Getting qualified is more important, duh! And I worked out a ton onboard that ship a**, Do you not recall me making fun of the Graham mirror? Ole' Feather and I went up there 3 out of 4 days. I still workout and could benchpress a Prius (those are about 280 right?)... Will my height and weight determine pay scales and evaluations in the civilian world? I wasn't trying to convince big navy, I was just trying to piss off as many topsiders as possible.

withroaj

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #24 on: Mar 13, 2011, 02:57 »

withroaj -> You comments are poignant but not wholly applicable. In our culture "Getting qualified" is WAY more important then 'getting in shape", am I wrong?

You're right.  You're both right.  I just used to post to this forum frequently and figured I'd engage a conversation.  This one seemed debatable so I jumped in.

As far as getting qualified goes...  my division hasn't gotten a new guy in about a year and a half.  We're about 50% E-6 CRW (SW), 40% E-5 CRW (SW) and about 10% E-5 CRW just about done with warfare quals.  

We have some fancy new equipment that requires a TON of maintenance and frequent troubleshooting (can you imagine a RL division hanging tagouts several times a week for their own equipment?).  We're super short-handed (but 100% manned because of the amount of E-6's) but at least we don't have to worry about quals.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #25 on: Mar 13, 2011, 07:56 »
You're right.  You're both right.  I just used to post to this forum frequently and figured I'd engage a conversation.  This one seemed debatable so I jumped in.

As far as getting qualified goes...  my division hasn't gotten a new guy in about a year and a half.  We're about 50% E-6 CRW (SW), 40% E-5 CRW (SW) and about 10% E-5 CRW just about done with warfare quals.  

We have some fancy new equipment that requires a TON of maintenance and frequent troubleshooting (can you imagine a RL division hanging tagouts several times a week for their own equipment?).  We're super short-handed (but 100% manned because of the amount of E-6's) but at least we don't have to worry about quals.

sounds RIDICULOUSLY like the IKE, except we were 15% E-6 CRW, 20% E-5 CRW, and rest was E-5/4 nub. Very crappy time :(


And you kinda bring my point to a head. We had to FORCE time to go work out. There was no arranged time to go to the gym or do some group PT. I know topsiders have plenty of time off, and we are the minority, so perhaps our views dont jive so well with the rest of the navy ;).... well shoot, we know thats the case.


Drayer -> yes, no shirt saturdays will always be in my heart ;) . Having a six pack, and ripped serratus is always nice to have haha. I know you worked out, Im just pullin your leg, and giving a different point. A lot of people just cant get into it, or have no motivation. Your motivation in the gym was not the same as mine. I enjoyed it, most people dont. I can do about 30 pullups, does that make me a better operator? definitely and utterly not, and I get your point, we all do. It just really boils down to the navy standards of having an "in shape navy", and people not fitting into those. 

lets give another counterpoint... standards in the navy are a joke. if a nuke cheats on a test... BAM. end of the world, serious career damaging event. topsider cheats on a test... slaps on the wrist. topsider falls asleep on watch, it stops at the chief. nuke falls asleep on watch, bam, career damaging event. Now, the prestige of operating a nuclear plant plays into that. We NEED to be held to higher standards then the "average joe", so perhaps lowering our prt standards (they do that with EOD's, SWIC, and SEALs....) would make some sense?  top side joe is on 8 section duty, and has one 4 hour watch on his duty day. Not quite the same as our 3 section duty, full work day, mon-fri gig. 


drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #26 on: Mar 14, 2011, 05:40 »
I was contacted by the Navy Times today and they are going to run my piece that I submitted on PRT failures and the topsiders request for Extreme PRT's.... I'm pretty proud of this one. At least it's going to get some exposure. I've had over 50 people share it on their FB pages and a couple hundered page views for the article.  I hope they put it next to a picture of some pissed off Air Dale who works out for a living.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #27 on: Mar 14, 2011, 07:20 »
I was contacted by the Navy Times today and they are going to run my piece that I submitted on PRT failures and the topsiders request for Extreme PRT's.... I'm pretty proud of this one. At least it's going to get some exposure. I've had over 50 people share it on their FB pages and a couple hundered page views for the article.  I hope they put it next to a picture of some pissed off Air Dale who works out for a living.

AWESOME! :D I want to see the fallout from this!!!!

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #28 on: Mar 14, 2011, 07:22 »
AWESOME! :D I want to see the fallout from this!!!!

Haha, what are they going to do? Fire Me?

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #29 on: Mar 14, 2011, 07:24 »
Haha, what are they going to do? Fire Me?


pssh. Yeah! Then look what youre stuck doing... gosh.. 

Well either case, I do hope you dont get any backlash, but lets hope the big wigs see it and at least think about it before teeing off this weekend ;)


drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #30 on: Mar 14, 2011, 07:43 »
pssh. Yeah! Then look what youre stuck doing... gosh.. 
Well either case, I do hope you dont get any backlash, but lets hope the big wigs see it and at least think about it before teeing off this weekend ;
I'm not trying to change the minds of the big wigs, in all reality, they have real problems to worry about. This is primarily to piss off the guy who jumps up and down at the captains call to ask about tougher prt standards and uniform changes. I just wanted to throw back some anger for that bs article....

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #31 on: Mar 14, 2011, 07:59 »
I'm not trying to change the minds of the big wigs, in all reality, they have real problems to worry about. This is primarily to piss off the guy who jumps up and down at the captains call to ask about tougher prt standards and uniform changes. I just wanted to throw back some anger for that bs article....

Well, every admiral needs to have his legacy. We've seen that with our own two eyes. Just how reasonable is that NWU uniform, honestly? Its ridiculous. I do believe you are going to piss off a few sailors, and you will be criticized/chastised, but I wish they would have the same angst against people that didnt do their jobs to the proper standards. Its whatever's in the limelight. today its PRT failures. Tomorrow, it will be something else O.o

withroaj

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #32 on: Mar 14, 2011, 09:30 »
That is awesome.  Getting anything published in a widely circulated... anything is a goal of mine.

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #33 on: Mar 14, 2011, 11:02 »
 :->

Well, every admiral needs to have his legacy. We've seen that with our own two eyes. Just how reasonable is that NWU uniform, honestly? Its ridiculous. I do believe you are going to piss off a few sailors, and you will be criticized/chastised, but I wish they would have the same angst against people that didnt do their jobs to the proper standards. Its whatever's in the limelight. today its PRT failures. Tomorrow, it will be something else O.o

I'm not trying to change the minds of the big wigs, in all reality, they have real problems to worry about. This is primarily to piss off the guy who jumps up and down at the captains call to ask about tougher prt standards and uniform changes. I just wanted to throw back some anger for that bs article....

 [hijack]  [jerry]

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Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #34 on: Mar 15, 2011, 07:08 »
:->

 [hijack]  [jerry]

Me thinks: CM and drayer54 are trying to outpost each other.  Try PM's or dirrect e-mail!  [dowave]

usually I would agree completely, but our posts are pretty much on topic here. O.o

Offline Gamecock

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #35 on: Mar 15, 2011, 08:46 »
Well, every admiral needs to have his legacy. We've seen that with our own two eyes. Just how reasonable is that NWU uniform, honestly? Its ridiculous.

FYI...NWU came about as a result of Task Force Uniform (TFU), which was made up of a bunch of E-9s. 

Not every "brilliant" idea comes about because of an admiral seeking to leave a legacy. 

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Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #36 on: Mar 15, 2011, 11:00 »
FYI...NWU came about as a result of Task Force Uniform (TFU), which was made up of a bunch of E-9s. 

Not every "brilliant" idea comes about because of an admiral seeking to leave a legacy. 

Cheers,
GC

I agree with that, but ultimately, its the admirals decision to implement. And my point was that it was someone wanting to bring the navy up to some kind of standard for the public eye.

The NWU facilitates Navy leadership's intent to standardize the professional appearance of Sailors when wearing a working uniform ashore," said CNP Vice Adm. Mark Ferguson.

It really seems like there is a big push to get the navy into some kind of idealogical state that "fits" the public's idea of "Joe/Jane Sailor", and they are finding every way to do that. From PRT standards to uniform pushes.  Too bad we dont focus on the rate capabilities aspect like Mr drayer is describing.


shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #37 on: Mar 15, 2011, 04:28 »
Quote
up to some kind of standard for the public eye.

And they did this by changing a uniform that can only be worn in public on the way to and from work?

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #38 on: Mar 15, 2011, 05:04 »
And they did this by changing a uniform that can only be worn in public on the way to and from work?

Last I heard, they didnt want it to be public because a lot of people didnt know how to wear it. So there was supposed to be some kind of "reception period" to allow everyone to 1) get the uniform and 2) learn to wear it properly.  Whether that will change or not, I cant speculate on. The point was to provide a uniform that meshed with the rest of the armed services that already had BDU's. A "unified" military if you will, which, also, is good for public image.  This is all speculative of course, so take it how you want.

shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #39 on: Mar 15, 2011, 08:21 »
Eh I find that a little hard to believe.  Other than coveralls its the easiest one to wear.  How hard is it to put on blousing straps and an 8-point?

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #40 on: Mar 15, 2011, 08:40 »
Eh I find that a little hard to believe.  Other than coveralls its the easiest one to wear.  How hard is it to put on blousing straps and an 8-point?


Your disbelief is misplaced.


""Today our CNO approved a revision to the policy that governs the wear of the Navy Working Uniform. Effective immediately, Sailors in most locations can now wear our newest uniform outside the lifelines of our bases and our ships. They can wear it for short routine stops and even at restaurants out in town as long as it's during working hours.

This is a big win for our Sailors and for our Navy. The American public is going to be introduced to this new uniform and our men and women have been eager to get out there and show it off.

Much of the credit for this decision goes to our CNO, Admiral Roughead, and our Chief of Naval Personnel, Vice Admiral Fitzgerald. They recognized a need early on to make sure our Sailors knew exactly how to wear this uniform before we sent them out in front of the American public. Our Chiefs trained them and provided the feedback. Now we're ready to move forward and let communities around the country see what a United States Sailor looks like in blue and gray camouflage.

Also, BZ to Fleet Master Chief Scott Benning and the Navy Region Mid-Atlantic Chief's Mess. They led the way in getting their Sailors trained up on the NWU and set the standard for the entire Navy.

More details on this can be found in NAVADMIN 188/09.

Have a great weekend.

HOOYAH,
MCPON""


shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #41 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:07 »
"wear it for short routine stops and even at restaurants out in town as long as it's during working hours."

That NAVADMIN has been out since 2009... the wear restrictions haven't changed at all since then and it is still a highly restrictive uniform to wear.  For example - living in the BEQ's I am not allowed to "stop by" the barber shop off base in my NWU's.  Unless I left early I guess and it was still during working hours...

The routine stops and working hours make it difficult to "show off" to the public.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #42 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:23 »
"wear it for short routine stops and even at restaurants out in town as long as it's during working hours."

That NAVADMIN has been out since 2009... the wear restrictions haven't changed at all since then and it is still a highly restrictive uniform to wear.  For example - living in the BEQ's I am not allowed to "stop by" the barber shop off base in my NWU's.  Unless I left early I guess and it was still during working hours...

The routine stops and working hours make it difficult to "show off" to the public.

now you are arguing semantics :) the term "normal working hours" is 1) not defined 2) subjective. I would consider going out in town at 11AM for my lunch break .... GOING OUT IN TOWN. It used to be wear to and from car, period. not to be seen off base except to get gas if you needed it.  Im not sure what you want to wear your uniform out in town for at 8pm anyway.....

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #43 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:46 »
Much of the credit for this decision goes to our CNO, Admiral Roughead, and our Chief of Naval Personnel, Vice Admiral Fitzgerald. They recognized a need early on to make sure our Sailors knew exactly how to wear this uniform before we sent them out in front of the American public. Our Chiefs trained them and provided the feedback. Now we're ready to move forward and let communities around the country see what a United States Sailor looks like in blue and gray camouflage.

I blame the previous CNO for the chairborne-ranger look SWU.

Timeline: First pic taken in 2006. Squid in dungarees, ChiComs in camo wackadoodle outfit. Someone gets BDU envy.



Second picture is of People's Liberation Army Navy Type 07 uniform. Big Navy gets further mancrush, must have something JUST like it...



voila!  Now we can all be panda-huggers! Ni chi bao le ma, fei jai?   >:(
« Last Edit: Mar 16, 2011, 11:53 by HydroDave63 »

MacGyver

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #44 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:02 »
I blame the previous CNO for the chairborne-ranger look SWU.

Timeline: First pic taken in 2006. Squid in dungarees, ChiComs in camo wackadoodle outfit. Someone gets BDU envy.



Second picture is of People's Liberation Army Navy Type 07 uniform. Big Navy gets further mancrush, must have something JUST like it...



voila!  Now we can all be panda-huggers! Ni chi bao le ma, fei jai?   >:(


Add the fact that we buy our uniforms from said Chi'Coms and you get,


shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #45 on: Mar 16, 2011, 02:45 »
now you are arguing semantics :) the term "normal working hours" is 1) not defined 2) subjective. I would consider going out in town at 11AM for my lunch break .... GOING OUT IN TOWN. It used to be wear to and from car, period. not to be seen off base except to get gas if you needed it.  Im not sure what you want to wear your uniform out in town for at 8pm anyway.....

Mainly because Im still in A-school.  It's a pain to change into NSU/Civilian clothes to run to the store or get a haircut off base just to come back and change back into NWU's, finish the homework, change back into civilian clothes to sleep in...  Granted its a minor inconvienence but Im practicing the whole bitching sailor thing :-P

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #46 on: Mar 16, 2011, 03:44 »
Mainly because Im still in A-school.  It's a pain to change into NSU/Civilian clothes to run to the store or get a haircut off base just to come back and change back into NWU's, finish the homework, change back into civilian clothes to sleep in...  Granted its a minor inconvienence but Im practicing the whole bitching sailor thing :-P

Well... being in a training command is another subject all together. If you left base to get a haircut and came back, no one would be upset with you. Its one of those "in the line of duty" kind of things. If you went to the bar off base... then yeah, I could understand some angst against that. O.o

pm me your instructors please. :)

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #47 on: Mar 16, 2011, 03:54 »
Mainly because Im still in A-school.  It's a pain to change into NSU/Civilian clothes to run to the store or get a haircut off base just to come back and change back into NWU's, finish the homework, change back into civilian clothes to sleep in...  Granted its a minor inconvienence but Im practicing the whole bitching sailor thing :-P
[OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT]

I like it because I can not wear a belt and nobody notices. I can not iron it, ever.... and nobody notices.... But If I were to run a PRT in it, I would undoubtedly fail.
You know failing PRT's?

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #48 on: Mar 16, 2011, 03:55 »
[OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT] [OT]

I like it because I can not wear a belt and nobody notices. I can not iron it, ever.... and nobody notices.... But If I were to run a PRT in it, I would undoubtedly fail.
You know failing PRT's?






shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #49 on: Mar 16, 2011, 06:25 »
On topic - the body fat thing is a little ridiculous, the PRT standards for women are a little ridiculous, but all-in-all not too difficult to maintain weight and at least a good low if you try.  Deployments might be a different story, but at shore you should have no reason not to eat healthy.  Sure it might cost more than the galley, but it costs a lot less than a career.

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #50 on: Mar 16, 2011, 06:31 »
On topic - the body fat thing is a little ridiculous, the PRT standards for women are a little ridiculous, but all-in-all not too difficult to maintain weight and at least a good low if you try.  Deployments might be a different story, but at shore you should have no reason not to eat healthy.  Sure it might cost more than the galley, but it costs a lot less than a career.

And how many deployments have you done? My Experience has taught me that shipyards mean pack on the pounds and then you deploy and sweat them all off... Anything near a roach coach is bad, really bad.

shocker

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #51 on: Mar 16, 2011, 08:59 »
My point was on a deployment - unless I have been vastly misinformed - you do not have as many options for smart eating as you could on shore.  I highly doubt any number of deployments, or qualifications will persuade me that having a roach coach nearby is a bigger factor in weight than diet and exercise.

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #52 on: Mar 16, 2011, 09:15 »
My point was on a deployment - unless I have been vastly misinformed - you do not have as many options for smart eating as you could on shore.  I highly doubt any number of deployments, or qualifications will persuade me that having a roach coach nearby is a bigger factor in weight than diet and exercise.

tread lightly before making accusations about the fleet ;)

You will understand when you get there. Looking back... id rather redo my first deployment again then go through a 6 month shipyard O.o


JustinHEMI05

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #53 on: Mar 16, 2011, 09:51 »
CM, do you an drayer reply to every thread on NW?

Offline RDTroja

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #54 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:12 »
CM, do you an drayer reply to every thread on NW?

 ROFL

I was having the same thought myself. Maybe they own stock in Nukeworker, Inc?
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Offline vagabond

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #55 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:16 »
Mainly because Im still in A-school.  It's a pain to change into NSU/Civilian clothes to run to the store or get a haircut off base just to come back and change back into NWU's, finish the homework, change back into civilian clothes to sleep in...  Granted its a minor inconvienence but Im practicing the whole bitching sailor thing :-P

Efficient use of time can help a lot.  Doing homework on the breaks during class helps a lot.  That's how many people I know cut down on the time spent after school in the building.  It's not like you need to go to the store or get a haircut every day either.
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Offline OldHP

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #56 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:31 »
CM, do you an drayer reply to every thread on NW?
ROFL
I was having the same thought myself. Maybe they own stock in Nukeworker, Inc?

Totally agree!  I posted the same on another thread.  I really think they should just e-mail or pm each other to continue their argument as BZ suggested.  But, then again, maybe they are just trying to outpost everyone who has ever been here.

 :->

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Cycoticpenguin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #57 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:29 »
CM, do you an drayer reply to every thread on NW?

mutual boredom. Think "super troopers" :D


drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #58 on: Mar 17, 2011, 12:43 »
Not every thread. I have been on here a lot lately due the fact that I have been following the Japan ordeal and I use this as a break when I am doing classes. I also have a job that allows for plenty of free time on here. I've been able to share some things and today for example, I learned some of the great things about Omaha... Who knew there was great things in Omaha? I would definitely say the increase in use is due to Japan though. My Post/Day # is still way low in comparison to you guys. No Stock, although I am anxiously awaiting the IPO, FB has nothing on this... "Charlie" on the other hand....
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2011, 12:50 by drayer54 »

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #59 on: Mar 17, 2011, 08:05 »
So, is there anything bad about beings ad-sep'd from the Navy due to PRT failures as far as the civilian side of Nuke power is concerned?


Due to exceeding the Navy's standards, I was booted out in 1995. It is great; how many times are you asked in an interview about a time when you failed and how you responded? Or a time you determined a need to make a change due to feedback received?

Either get back in shape when you get out and use it to answer those awkward interview questionss, or have a great sense of humor about it and make sure they know you can do the job.
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Offline Jechtm

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #60 on: Jun 05, 2011, 01:59 »
"wear it for short routine stops and even at restaurants out in town as long as it's during working hours."

That NAVADMIN has been out since 2009... the wear restrictions haven't changed at all since then and it is still a highly restrictive uniform to wear.  For example - living in the BEQ's I am not allowed to "stop by" the barber shop off base in my NWU's.  Unless I left early I guess and it was still during working hours...

The routine stops and working hours make it difficult to "show off" to the public.

I saw a lieutenant, ty spell check, in his NWUs at buffalo wild wings almost a year ago. Booyah. And it was definitely after working hours.

EDIT: After submitting my response, I noticed that my last post was in a topic about PRT failures... then I realized I posted something about something that wasn't even on topic. Now I want to delete it but I'd like to share my story... so
meh.

Edit2:On topic.. basically if the Navy has standards to meet, just like anything else, just meet them. If a sailor is fat, they should fix themselves. I hate working out, but when I'm done, I feel great. Arguing with something bigger than us is just a waste of time, we signed that stupid stack of papers (contract), right?. Do what you need to do, ask someone for help if you really need it. Like everyone else said, do you really want to have an ad-sep cause you can't stay in shape?
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2011, 02:14 by Jechtm »
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HeavyD

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #61 on: Jun 05, 2011, 01:08 »
The Navy does NOT foster an environment of health and fitness, as some throughout our chain-of-command would have the world believe.  And the CoC I am talking about is up to the CNO.

If we, the Navy, wanted to foster an environment of health and fitness, the first thing we would do is get rid of the soda and junk food machines everywhere.  When walking into the gym at Gate 5 on NOB, the first thing you pass is a Coke machine.  In the gym!

The PRT program has become another "force shaping tool" during the latest in a long line of drawdowns.  We can train sailors to operate a multi-million dollar nuclear power plant but we can't train some SOB to use a pair of f**king calipers!  WTF?!?!

Point being, the Navy now is looking to get rid of sailors, and this is merely another way to do it.  Good and bad, both are getting the hook.

Latest and greatest from the inside, only 6 more months till 20 :)
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2011, 02:03 by Marlin »

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #62 on: Jun 05, 2011, 03:56 »
The PRT program has become another "force shaping tool" during the latest in a long line of drawdowns.  We can train sailors to operate a multi-million dollar nuclear power plant but we can't train some SOB to use a pair of f**king calipers!  WTF?!?!

Perhaps you are unaware of the scientific rigor which has been applied by BuMed since the 80's. Allow me to share their theory and analysis:




Offline GatorNuke007

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #63 on: Jun 11, 2011, 03:49 »
If you are discharged for BCA failures you will get 25,000 dollars.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #64 on: Jun 11, 2011, 04:45 »
If you are discharged for BCA failures you will get 25,000 dollars.

Any link or source on that?

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #65 on: Jun 11, 2011, 11:16 »
I would bet that he is making a reference to an individual who did that. That is by no means in every case. They just reduced the amount for PRT failures and you still have to pass the physical portion to collect any of that. I have seen firsthand a guy get 18 and change for getting out at this 8 year mark with 4 prt fails. That would likely be an example.

Offline MMM

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #66 on: Jun 11, 2011, 11:47 »
I believe it's involuntary separation pay, since you're not breaking any laws, but still getting kicked out before your EAOS. I could be wrong though.

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #67 on: Jun 11, 2011, 11:49 »
I believe it's involuntary separation pay, since you're not breaking any laws, but still getting kicked out before your EAOS. I could be wrong though.

That is correct.

PTS fails get it, PRT fails, High Year Tenure, and others of that type

HeavyD

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #68 on: Jun 13, 2011, 08:33 »
Update on the involuntary sep pay.  the Navy recently changed the rules on this.  If you are being separated due to body fat issues, then you are entitled to 1/2 of the separation pay you would normally be entitled to.  However, if you are being separated due to actually failing the physical portion of the PRT, you are entitles to zero, zip, nada.

One thing to keep in mind as well.  In order to qualify for separation pay, for those personnel being separated for an issue not involving some type of medical retirement/disability, a service member must have served at least 6 years and must be discharged under honorable conditions.

In the next year, another startling change that is being pushed is that those personnel with greater than 18 years of service would no longer be protected from this early separation. 

The bottom line, once again, is cost savings.  For those still serving on active duty, find a way to stay in decent enough shape to avoid this axe.  It cuts deeply and painfully.

HeavyD

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #69 on: Jun 14, 2011, 11:04 »
Below is the calculation for full Involuntary Separation Pay.

Monthly Base Pay X 12 X YOS (years of service) X 10% = ISP

Full ISP is for PTS, Enlisted Retention Board, and others not limited by half-pay.

Half ISP is for PFA failures (BCA only, if you can't pass the actual PR, you get squat), HYT and some oher scenarios.

Example:  E-5 over 6 years, less than 8  Base pay $2620.20 per month

($2620.20)(12)(6)(0.1)(0.5 cause you only get 1/2 ISP for being fat) = $9,432.72 (before taxes)  rough estimate of 28% for taxes

$6,791.56 after taxes. 

Now, that is still better than nothing, but it is basically chump change to get by on while job hunting or until you get into college and teh 9-11 GI Bill kicks in.  If you have wife and kids, well, it just gets better from there.

E-6 over 15 years - ($3441.00)

($3441.00)(12)(15)(0.10)(0.5) = $30,969.00 before Unlce Sam's take, $22,297.68 take home.

Again, basically nothing after 15 years of service.

A simple truth is that the days of the Nuke Navy not playing according to Big Navy's rules (for the most part) are over.  We have kicked 5 Nukes to the curb in the last 9 months here.

Offline Jechtm

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #70 on: Jun 22, 2011, 01:27 »
The Navy does NOT foster an environment of health and fitness, as some throughout our chain-of-command would have the world believe.  And the CoC I am talking about is up to the CNO.

If we, the Navy, wanted to foster an environment of health and fitness, the first thing we would do is get rid of the soda and junk food machines everywhere.  When walking into the gym at Gate 5 on NOB, the first thing you pass is a Coke machine.  In the gym!

The PRT program has become another "force shaping tool" during the latest in a long line of drawdowns.  We can train sailors to operate a multi-million dollar nuclear power plant but we can't train some SOB to use a pair of f**king calipers!  WTF?!?!

Point being, the Navy now is looking to get rid of sailors, and this is merely another way to do it.  Good and bad, both are getting the hook.

Latest and greatest from the inside, only 6 more months till 20 :)


Yes, but how many times do you pass a water fountain (scuttlebutt <_<), you  should bring food in from home, and then you make the decision to have water or a soda. If some sailors can stay in shape how come not all sailors can?? It comes down to determination and personal choice. I think that is exactly how the big navy sees it.

Sure, I have a problem being in shape, but that's because I decide to play video games instead of going doing something active, I eat pizza instead of eating a salad, those are choices. If you know you won't be doing anything active because your going to be away for awhile, watch what you eat and you should be fine. We all know its not hard to understand that by having calories in=out you shouldn't gain weight. You may lose some muscle mass, but you better believe its a lot easier to get back into shape when your not overweight...

no?
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #71 on: Jun 23, 2011, 02:20 »
Yes, but how many times do you pass a water fountain (scuttlebutt <_<), you  should bring food in from home, and then you make the decision to have water or a soda. If some sailors can stay in shape how come not all sailors can?? It comes down to determination and personal choice. I think that is exactly how the big navy sees it.

Sure, I have a problem being in shape, but that's because I decide to play video games instead of going doing something active, I eat pizza instead of eating a salad, those are choices. If you know you won't be doing anything active because your going to be away for awhile, watch what you eat and you should be fine. We all know its not hard to understand that by having calories in=out you shouldn't gain weight. You may lose some muscle mass, but you better believe its a lot easier to get back into shape when your not overweight...

no?

Big navy could care less about your physical fitness.  PRT as iti is today is a force shaping tool, nothing more.  We need to cut sailors.... we enforce PRT rules...been that way for years.
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Offline Jechtm

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #72 on: Jul 01, 2011, 10:22 »
Big navy could care less about your physical fitness.  PRT as iti is today is a force shaping tool, nothing more.  We need to cut sailors.... we enforce PRT rules...been that way for years.


Whose we? Are you saying that you are big navy? I'm looking from the bottom up, and that's my opinion =/

And I never said that enforcing PRT rules was wrong, I encourage it.... are they a good tool to summarize a persons PF? Summarize, I guess.
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

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drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #73 on: Jul 01, 2011, 10:35 »

Whose we? Are you saying that you are big navy? I'm looking from the bottom up, and that's my opinion =/

And I never said that enforcing PRT rules was wrong, I encourage it.... are they a good tool to summarize a persons PF? Summarize, I guess.

 I think GC has a pretty good feel for big navy as he's spent a lot of time in it and done pretty well for himself. I also think he is right on this issue.

Now go find that scuttlebutt and enjoy a salad. 8)
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2011, 10:36 by Drayer »

Offline Higgs

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #74 on: Jul 01, 2011, 10:26 »
Big navy could care less about your physical fitness.  PRT as iti is today is a force shaping tool, nothing more.  We need to cut sailors.... we enforce PRT rules...been that way for years.

Yes, but how much less could it care? :P

"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #75 on: Jul 01, 2011, 11:00 »
Yes, but how much less could it care? :P

Now we see why you are The Annoying Orange  :P

Offline Marlin

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #76 on: Jul 02, 2011, 12:02 »
Morla the Aged One



Offline Jechtm

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #77 on: Jul 04, 2011, 11:23 »
I think GC has a pretty good feel for big navy as he's spent a lot of time in it and done pretty well for himself. I also think he is right on this issue.

Now go find that scuttlebutt and enjoy a salad. 8)

Agreed, and that damn salad was delicious.
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline OldHP

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #78 on: Jul 06, 2011, 12:20 »
Big navy could care less about your physical fitness.  PRT as iti is today is a force shaping tool, nothing more.  We need to cut sailors.... we enforce PRT rules...been that way for years.

And why do you question?  GC is the SME!
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #79 on: Jul 06, 2011, 03:38 »

Whose we? Are you saying that you are big navy? I'm looking from the bottom up, and that's my opinion =/

And I never said that enforcing PRT rules was wrong, I encourage it.... are they a good tool to summarize a persons PF? Summarize, I guess.

I'm not "Big Navy", but his office used to be two floors below mine. ;)
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline Jechtm

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #80 on: Jul 06, 2011, 07:12 »
I'm not "Big Navy", but his office used to be two floors below mine. ;)

I know I am extremely under experienced with the whole Navy thing, I mean no funny business. :)

_mike



« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2011, 07:24 by Jechtm »
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

~Bruce Lee

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #81 on: Jul 06, 2011, 08:25 »
I'm not "Big Navy", but his office used to be two floors below mine. ;)

Ahhh....so YOU were the guy they had go and fetch the ice-cold Mountain Dews!  8)

USNDC2

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #82 on: Aug 03, 2011, 03:01 »
I notice a lot of Sailors on here putting down this shipmate and referring to "Navy Standards". I struggled with my weight now in the Navy for 8 years. Always barely making BCA or getting a "hookup"... I just failed my first BCA with my command in March. I was at 23% BF and could not for the life of me get any lower. Mind you I ran a 12:15 1 1/2 Mile, 78 Situps, and 100 Pushups... I am 5'11"/247lbs/29yrs which equated to an overall Excellent on my PRT. Sometimes PT'ing doesn't cut it, and if it wasn't for the failure, I would not have went to my Doctor to find out that I have Hypothyroidism. For those of you that don't know what that is... It is a Thyroid disorder causing my metabolism to run extremely slow making it impossible for me to lose weight without proper medication to increase my Metabolism to where it needs to be. You never know what someone's situation may be. So please don't judge anyone because you are skinny and have no problems passing BCA or the PRT. Because at my size, if someone said some of the things they say on here to my face, They would learn real quick that there "Navy Standard Self" would not last 30 seconds before they were on the ground picking their butts up... So please stop judging and start encouraging... Have a Fine Navy Day!!!!

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #83 on: Aug 03, 2011, 04:04 »


+K on reminder to check for hypothyroid!

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #84 on: Aug 03, 2011, 04:32 »
:whispering: Dave, I think you meant this one: /:whispering


Offline Starkist

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #85 on: Aug 03, 2011, 05:49 »
I notice a lot of Sailors on here putting down this shipmate and referring to "Navy Standards". I struggled with my weight now in the Navy for 8 years. Always barely making BCA or getting a "hookup"... I just failed my first BCA with my command in March. I was at 23% BF and could not for the life of me get any lower. Mind you I ran a 12:15 1 1/2 Mile, 78 Situps, and 100 Pushups... I am 5'11"/247lbs/29yrs which equated to an overall Excellent on my PRT. Sometimes PT'ing doesn't cut it, and if it wasn't for the failure, I would not have went to my Doctor to find out that I have Hypothyroidism. For those of you that don't know what that is... It is a Thyroid disorder causing my metabolism to run extremely slow making it impossible for me to lose weight without proper medication to increase my Metabolism to where it needs to be. You never know what someone's situation may be. So please don't judge anyone because you are skinny and have no problems passing BCA or the PRT. Because at my size, if someone said some of the things they say on here to my face, They would learn real quick that there "Navy Standard Self" would not last 30 seconds before they were on the ground picking their butts up... So please stop judging and start encouraging... Have a Fine Navy Day!!!!

Im going to call bullsheet on the 100 pushups but I hear your point. Not everyone is genetically blessed with chiseled abs and good looks...

But thats no excuse to cry about it. Take your medication, appeal your failure, quit making excuses for the rest of the navy -.-

And finally
"USNDC2" why are you here on "nukeworker.com"?  Are you trying to convert?

Offline navynukedoc

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #86 on: Aug 03, 2011, 07:48 »
And finally
"USNDC2" why are you here on "nukeworker.com"?  Are you trying to convert?

Didn't know that only folks that were directly working with radioactivity were allowed to surf and post. And damage control, I do believe, is a ship wide position, including mechanical spaces.............. and I am sure there is a reactor, or two depending on your ship, that has one in said spaces. (OK. Comma use is a bit extreme. Hope my point was taken OBJECTIVELY)  ;)
"Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence" - George Washington

Offline Starkist

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #87 on: Aug 05, 2011, 01:47 »
Didn't know that only folks that were directly working with radioactivity were allowed to surf and post. And damage control, I do believe, is a ship wide position, including mechanical spaces.............. and I am sure there is a reactor, or two depending on your ship, that has one in said spaces. (OK. Comma use is a bit extreme. Hope my point was taken OBJECTIVELY)  ;)

No my friend. NUKEworker.com. This is a site for nukes, by nukes. If he's interested in cross rating, then yes, we welcome him with open arms. The moment this site opens to "general naval discussion" it loses all value for nuclear navy prospects and current/former sailors. Im not a "ratist", and I appreciate the aspect of all sailors do for our country, but this site isnt a navy site, its a nuclear worker site. If Im out of line here, the smites will come, and moderators will delete this, but I stand by what I said.


edit: Id like to clarify why non nukes shouldnt post here. We have/had our own unique set of standards on health, PRT reqs enforcement, quality of life, etc etc. Its not prudent, fair, or logical to have non nukes posting with authority because they just cant relate. Likewise, we dont relate to them. Mixing oil and water is never a good idea.
« Last Edit: Aug 05, 2011, 02:03 by Starkist »

Offline Higgs

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #88 on: Aug 05, 2011, 05:21 »
No my friend. NUKEworker.com. This is a site for nukes, by nukes. If he's interested in cross rating, then yes, we welcome him with open arms. The moment this site opens to "general naval discussion" it loses all value for nuclear navy prospects and current/former sailors. Im not a "ratist", and I appreciate the aspect of all sailors do for our country, but this site isnt a navy site, its a nuclear worker site. If Im out of line here, the smites will come, and moderators will delete this, but I stand by what I said.


edit: Id like to clarify why non nukes shouldnt post here. We have/had our own unique set of standards on health, PRT reqs enforcement, quality of life, etc etc. Its not prudent, fair, or logical to have non nukes posting with authority because they just cant relate. Likewise, we dont relate to them. Mixing oil and water is never a good idea.

Good thing you don't get to decide who posts here. Just sayin.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline DDMurray

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #89 on: Aug 05, 2011, 09:03 »
No my friend. NUKEworker.com. This is a site for nukes, by nukes. If he's interested in cross rating, then yes, we welcome him with open arms. The moment this site opens to "general naval discussion" it loses all value for nuclear navy prospects and current/former sailors. Im not a "ratist", and I appreciate the aspect of all sailors do for our country, but this site isnt a navy site, its a nuclear worker site. If Im out of line here, the smites will come, and moderators will delete this, but I stand by what I said.

edit: Id like to clarify why non nukes shouldnt post here. We have/had our own unique set of standards on health, PRT reqs enforcement, quality of life, etc etc. Its not prudent, fair, or logical to have non nukes posting with authority because they just cant relate. Likewise, we dont relate to them. Mixing oil and water is never a good idea.
Posts like this make me want to get all my non-nuke friends to start chiming in here.  You are an elitist Richard.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #90 on: Aug 05, 2011, 09:59 »
Good thing you don't get to decide who posts here. Just sayin.

Agreed! 

(Donning my coaching uniform) 

It IS Nukeworker.com  It is by nukes, for ANYONE who wants to visit, sign up, ask questions, share experiences, you get the idea. 

Feel free to point differences, especially for those who don't know that they exist, but NEVER EVER tell someone they can't or shouldn't post here. 

Think on some of the human performance fundamentals that we always apply in this business:
Consider opposing or different points of view (self-explanatory)
Self-check (Think before posting?)
Peer-check
2 minute drill

Some error precursor phrases:

"We've always done that"
"That'll never work"
"He (she) hasn't been here long enough to give input"

Be opinionated but open-minded.  Tell someone they're wrong (if they are) WITHOUT putting them down.  None of us came into this field, whether Navy or commercial, knowing it all.  None of us know it all & I believe even BZ would admit to that.  ;) 

This isn't about 27 warm fuzzies to every new poster, it's about being decent to each other.  It's not about coddling it's about guiding.  It boils down to treating the same as you want to be treated.  (and not getting mad when you get treated the way you treat others)

(Doffing the hat and returning you to your regularly scheduled, and hopefully back on-topic, discussion)
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

Offline thenukeman

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #91 on: Aug 05, 2011, 11:18 »
Starkist, I consider Navy Nukes non-nukes, But I do not complain if they post and feel important. They have a right like anyone else like Nuclear Nascar says. Navy Just pristine environment, no dose, routine stuff, low contamination. When you do a job that you do not know what is going to happen, 5 Rad smearable, strontium line broken on a  pump that sprays containment, Shonka SCM mapping, 376 mr dose in a 15 minute jump.( Probably more than a Starkist Lifetime)That is a Nukeworker. Apologies to the rest of the navy posters here!!!! Just saying [train] [Flamer]
« Last Edit: Aug 06, 2011, 08:06 by thenukeman »

Offline GLW

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #92 on: Aug 06, 2011, 10:30 »
Posts like this make me want to get all my non-nuke friends to start chiming in here.  You are an elitist Richard.

I just got it,.... :stupidme:

I was looking at it for a bit after the game last night and as I know 'kist's given name I was unsure of the context,...

amazing when you can still find naivete in a 51YO mind,.... [Flamer]

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline DDMurray

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #93 on: Aug 06, 2011, 11:32 »
Posts like this make me want to get all my non-nuke friends to start chiming in here.  You are an elitist Richard.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Richard is a typical name in many Germanic languages, including English, German and Dutch.

Short forms:
English: Rik, Rick, Rich, Dick, Ric, Bob (Australian). Slovak: Rišo, Riško, Riči. Polish: Rysio, Rysiek, Ryś. Czech: Ríša. Spanish: Cayo (Guatemala). Finnish: Riku. Estonian: Riho.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline goobs22xx

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #94 on: Aug 07, 2011, 09:29 »
I notice a lot of Sailors on here putting down this shipmate and referring to "Navy Standards". I struggled with my weight now in the Navy for 8 years. Always barely making BCA or getting a "hookup"... I just failed my first BCA with my command in March. I was at 23% BF and could not for the life of me get any lower. Mind you I ran a 12:15 1 1/2 Mile, 78 Situps, and 100 Pushups... I am 5'11"/247lbs/29yrs which equated to an overall Excellent on my PRT. Sometimes PT'ing doesn't cut it, and if it wasn't for the failure, I would not have went to my Doctor to find out that I have Hypothyroidism. For those of you that don't know what that is... It is a Thyroid disorder causing my metabolism to run extremely slow making it impossible for me to lose weight without proper medication to increase my Metabolism to where it needs to be. You never know what someone's situation may be. So please don't judge anyone because you are skinny and have no problems passing BCA or the PRT. Because at my size, if someone said some of the things they say on here to my face, They would learn real quick that there "Navy Standard Self" would not last 30 seconds before they were on the ground picking their butts up... So please stop judging and start encouraging... Have a Fine Navy Day!!!!

My thoughts:

-Your condition is the exception, not the rule.
-Really sorry that you don't think professional performance should be judged, but I wholeheartedly disagree. If being in standards is one's job and one is not in standards, they are failing at their job (barring some exceptional medical condition). Everything you do in a professional sense is going to be judged and for many people (I would say majority, but that would be anecdotal at best), the state of being over weight comes from lifestyle decisions. I'm not saying the system is right or that I even agree with it, but I at least accept it for what it is: another set of standards that I have to follow in order to be eligible to continue receiving a paycheck. I wish there were more performance oriented things that could get people fired from the Navy...
-Speaking of failing at their job, the guys who were "encouraging" you by letting you skate on your weigh in/rope and choke actually got in the way of your medical problem being diagnosed. Perhaps if they had taken a hard line approach, you could have been treated years sooner. I don't know what, if any, kind of long term fall out is there due to the extra time it took you to get treated, but I would be pretty upset with myself if I were in your shoes.
-Threatening people over the internet just dilutes your point and makes you look foolish. You probably could beat me up, but luckily we're not barbarians and it wouldn't make your opinion any more valid. I'm not going to be one of the guys to tell you not to post here but crap like "you wouldn't say that to my face" is too childlike for my taste. It should be too much so for your taste as well, but I digress.

Offline Starkist

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #95 on: Aug 07, 2011, 02:33 »
Gentlemen. I will kindly point the name out.

www.Nukeworker.com


closely followed by the name of the subforum

Navy Nuke


Im in no way, shape or form, dictating who can and can't post here. Im merely being "that guy" and pointing out this site is designed for NUCLEAR navy and civilian NUCLEAR power workers.

Heres a few forums for open source military

http://www.thenavycafe.com/forum/cmps_index.php

http://forums.military.com/


Id also like to point, he wasnt the most open about it, he resorted to threats of violence on his first post. He is also completely vague and in no way shape or form contributing to this site.

Elitist? Slightly. I am however, posting on "NUKEworker.com" Not "Navyworker.com" Or "industrialworker.com".



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
Richard is a typical name in many Germanic languages, including English, German and Dutch.

Short forms:
English: Rik, Rick, Rich, Dick, Ric, Bob (Australian). Slovak: Rišo, Riško, Riči. Polish: Rysio, Rysiek, Ryś. Czech: Ríša. Spanish: Cayo (Guatemala). Finnish: Riku. Estonian: Riho.

That would be great, but my names not Richard.  It's a biblical name that's from the old testament.


 If you feel the need to get your non nuke navy friends on board, thats wonderful and your prerogative.


Starkist, I consider Navy Nukes non-nukes, But I do not complain if they post and feel important. They have a right like anyone else like Nuclear Nascar says. Navy Just pristine environment, no dose, routine stuff, low contamination. When you do a job that you do not know what is going to happen, 5 Rad smearable, strontium line broken on a  pump that sprays containment, Shonka SCM mapping, 376 mr dose in a 15 minute jump.( Probably more than a Starkist Lifetime)That is a Nukeworker. Apologies to the rest of the navy posters here!!!! Just saying [train] [Flamer]

Im not a navy nuke anymore either.

« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2011, 04:10 by Starkist »

Offline DDMurray

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #96 on: Aug 07, 2011, 04:48 »
@ Starkist:

1. You don't get it.
2. Our DC friend was simply stating that some of the posts here are things that, if said in person, would make somebody angry enough to lay down.  I didn't perceive it is a threat.
3. I feel fortunate to have this site.  I found it while looking for a second career.  I often wonder why some active duty navy guys post on here, but I try to help them nonetheless.  Honestly I have very few non-nuke friends so my threat of inviting others to post on here was pretty lame.
4. The PRT program used to be the most selectively complied with requirements in the Navy.  If it was followed to the letter, there probably wouldn't be as many failures and we probably couldn't man the boats if we got rid of all those out of standards.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline Starkist

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #97 on: Aug 07, 2011, 06:36 »
@ Starkist:

1. You don't get it.
2. Our DC friend was simply stating that some of the posts here are things that, if said in person, would make somebody angry enough to lay down.  I didn't perceive it is a threat.
3. I feel fortunate to have this site.  I found it while looking for a second career.  I often wonder why some active duty navy guys post on here, but I try to help them nonetheless.  Honestly I have very few non-nuke friends so my threat of inviting others to post on here was pretty lame.
4. The PRT program used to be the most selectively complied with requirements in the Navy.  If it was followed to the letter, there probably wouldn't be as many failures and we probably couldn't man the boats if we got rid of all those out of standards.


edit: I think you guys are missing my point. I NEVER said he "couldn't" post here, I said he "shouldn't". Why? Because a DC2 does not understand the dynamics of the nuclear navy. Elitist? Not at all. I would NEVER go to a corpsman site and tell them how they would do their stuff, likewise I would NEVER tell a DC2 how damage control stuff works. Why? Because I dont understand the dynamics of their job. Its not a put down, its a lack of experience and knowledge of the way things work. 


This is a stupid debate/argument by any means. Im not going to continue this, and I apologize for getting this little tiff started.
« Last Edit: Aug 07, 2011, 06:43 by Starkist »

MacGyver

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #98 on: Aug 08, 2011, 08:45 »
Maybe you could ask for a waiver, like this one, because "It's to hard".

drayer54

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #99 on: Aug 08, 2011, 11:40 »
Maybe you could ask for a waiver, like this one, because "It's to hard".
PolySci is 3 doors down and to the left, you just need to get that gold key first. It shouldn't be "to hard" to find it.

Personally, I wish he would give a waiver for every school in the country to not participate and shutdown his agency, but that's just me.

MacGyver

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #100 on: Aug 08, 2011, 12:13 »
PolySci is 3 doors down and to the left, you just need to get that gold key first. It shouldn't be "to hard" to find it.

Personally, I wish he would give a waiver for every school in the country to not participate and shutdown his agency, but that's just me.

"It's not my time" ...  :P









Nice try though ...  ;)

Offline goobs22xx

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #101 on: Aug 08, 2011, 07:39 »
3. I feel fortunate to have this site.  I found it while looking for a second career.  I often wonder why some active duty navy guys post on here, but I try to help them nonetheless. 

You're wondering why Navy Nukes are posting in a subforum entitled "Navy Nuke"?

I'm not sure that I understand your confusion :-\

I don't understand why all you civvies are up in here telling me how great your life is and how dumb I am. I'm trying to wallow in my misery over here!  ;D

Offline DDMurray

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #102 on: Aug 08, 2011, 08:38 »
I promised myself I was finished by this thread, but I was referring to guys acting questions on the internet that should be taken up the chain of command.  Oh forget it!
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline seconskin552

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #103 on: Aug 10, 2011, 09:29 »
Quote from: Drayer link=topic= ASVAB12135.msg139550#msg139550 date=1299794590
On the subject of PRT's, I recently submitted this article the Navy Times in response to their recent articles on the PRT.
http://www.posterwall.com/blog.php?b=2201
The best part of this is I am that 99 ASVAB, 30 lbs overweight guy, that worked his ass off to drop that extra weight. It's beyond insane.

Also, they just changed PT standards to eliminate "unnecessary categories". instead of all the Highs and lows, it is only Sat, Good, Excellent, Outstanding, and Max. (and Fail of course)

Possibly getting everyone back on topic

Offline DDMurray

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Re: PRT Failures?
« Reply #104 on: Aug 11, 2011, 05:13 »
@Drayer:  Nice article.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

 


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