Navy Nuke Rates - Is This True?

[81038205]

I leave for bootcamp in a few months and heard from an "unreliable source" that Navy Nuke Rates are chosen during bootcamp by the Nuke Chiefs there and I will have no say so in the matter.  Is this true?

I need to know because I really don't want to be put in a job for the next six years that I had no choice in.   

Hope this is false, but need verification.

[JustinHEMI05]

Learn this as your mantra...

"Needs of the Navy."

That is how rates are chosen. Is it a bunch of crotchety old Chiefs? I don't know but I doubt it. But the navy says I NEED THIS MANY RATES and so it shall be. You will be able to put your input in... but it doesn't matter in the end. Hopefully though, your needs and the Navy's needs line up and you will be happy. Good luck with that!

Justin

[Kev3399]

Dead on info from Justin.

You will be able asked at the beginning of bootcamp to put the rates in the order of your preference. After that...Needs of the Navy applies.

If it makes you feel any better, I put ET as my #1.......and got it.

ET is the smallest of the 3 rates when it comes to numbers. There are only so many who can be blessed with God's rate. 

[Navnu]

But remember, its the EM's that carry the weight of the world on their shoulders. Or rather, their arms.

Don't worry so much about getting a rate that you don't like. If I remember correctly, they told us that your preference factors in, but also your score on the ASVAB, so they will try to put you where you want to be, or at least somewhere where you can do what you are good at. ET was my #1, simply because the schooling seemed harder, at the time, and they got the bigger bonus. I ended up with EM, and while we get the short end of the stick when it comes to the bonuses, we actually have the harder schooling, and I enjoy every minute of it.

[Rad Sponge]

But remember, its the EM's that carry the weight of the world on their shoulders. Or rather, their arms.

Don't worry so much about getting a rate that you don't like. If I remember correctly, they told us that your preference factors in, but also your score on the ASVAB, so they will try to put you where you want to be, or at least somewhere where you can do what you are good at. ET was my #1, simply because the schooling seemed harder, at the time, and they got the bigger bonus. I ended up with EM, and while we get the short end of the stick when it comes to the bonuses, we actually have the harder schooling, and I enjoy every minute of it.

When I went through, I could guarantee MM because projections indicated a strong need for MMs, so I could contractually decide.

This changes, based on needs of the Navy.

All of the rates have their plusses and minuses, and not a one of them prepares you for life outside the Navy any better than the other, unless of course you become an MM-ELT than you get 3 distinctly employable skill sets. But, you can't get ELT, unless you become a MM and then the Lords of Chance rule for you.

Don't sweat what you end up getting.

Take it and once you get to the fleet, cross train and cross qualify as much as you can.

[PacketBoy]

Years ago your test results on the NFQT also played a role in which rate you got.  But it will always comes back to the current needs of the Navy, which change from month to month.

If they have too many electricians, odds are pretty high you'll be a mechanic or electronics technician. Kinda like when the multiple for EM2 was 999 - there were just too many electricians.

Go in with a positive attitude and you can succeed regardless of which rate you end up with - there are positives and negatives associated with each one.

[Finalman]

Years ago your test results on the NFQT also played a role in which rate you got.  But it will always comes back to the current needs of the Navy, which change from month to month.

This is true, your scores on the asvab are what determine, along with your order of preference of jobs, will effect what job you get mainly. Each month or so they have a certain number of each rate that they can send to the school, the time I went through it was about 100MM 50EM and 20ET could go in, luckily I got what I wanted and got MM. BTW, the cheifs that are up there are a MMSC and a MMCM.

[JustinHEMI05]

This is true, your scores on the asvab are what determine, along with your order of preference of jobs, will effect what job you get mainly. Each month or so they have a certain number of each rate that they can send to the school, the time I went through it was about 100MM 50EM and 20ET could go in, luckily I got what I wanted and got MM. BTW, the cheifs that are up there are a MMSC and a MMCM.

I am fairly certain that the needs of the navy come before the scores and your preference. But that is only based on something a former ETCM that used to do the picking told me., not my personal experience. Don't get me wrong, the scores have their place but first come the numbers.

Justin

[Kev3399]

Your ASVAB score doesn't guarantee you anything. There is a belief that high scores are required to be an ET and low scores mean you'll be a MM. Not true. The Navy balances the rates so that there are "high ASVAB score" individuals in all the nuke rates. ELTs are selected the same way. Some from the top, middle and bottom of a prototype class.

I wouldn't sweat which nuke rate you get, all 3 of them are better than 95% of the other rates the Navy has to offer.

[Finalman]

Your ASVAB score doesn't guarantee you anything. There is a belief that high scores are required to be an ET and low scores mean you'll be a MM. Not true. The Navy balances the rates so that there are "high ASVAB score" individuals in all the nuke rates. ELTs are selected the same way. Some from the top, middle and bottom of a prototype class.

I wouldn't sweat which nuke rate you get, all 3 of them are better than 95% of the other rates the Navy has to offer.

I never said it guaranteed anything, the sub-scores within your asvab scores are what determine your chance of getting a rate, not your overall score.

And yes the needs of the navy come into play more times than others, say you pick MM, your scores say you should be an EM and there's a need for them, well, we're nukes here, you do the math...

[Cycoticpenguin]

This is true, your scores on the asvab are what determine, along with your order of preference of jobs, will effect what job you get mainly. Each month or so they have a certain number of each rate that they can send to the school, the time I went through it was about 100MM 50EM and 20ET could go in, luckily I got what I wanted and got MM. BTW, the cheifs that are up there are a MMSC and a MMCM.

Im not sure if i beleive this. We had one ET, and he had mediocre scores in all areas. I scored higher in all areas then him. One of our EM's had the highest overall in all sections. 

I think its more time and place then a sit down and compare scores thing.


EDIT: I think kev3399 hit the nail on the head.

[Marlin]

My experience is a bit dated but I'm going to put my 2 cents in here anyway. Part of the battery of tests we took was for aptitude, (spatial recognition being key to a mechanic, etc.). These tests however did not determine your rate but were applied along with needs of the Navy and the requests of the sailor, about 75% of us got our requests.

[93-383]

I leave for bootcamp in a few months and heard from an "unreliable source" that Navy Nuke Rates are chosen during bootcamp by the Nuke Chiefs there and I will have no say so in the matter.  Is this true?

I need to know because I really don't want to be put in a job for the next six years that I had no choice in.   

Hope this is false, but need verification.

The simple answer is yes it is true. You actualy have NO choice in the matter unless you want to be an MM They say they use selection criteria for ET and EM but that is BS my room mate in A school had an electronics tech associates degree and was selected MM. Your statistical odds are you will be an MM if you can't deal with that don't joint

[Gamecock]

If you want to guarantee your job, select MM.  Otherwise, you will be rolling the dice.  By choosing to go MM at MEPS, you never have to worry.

[Rad Sponge]

And why not, MM is the best rate ever to prepare you for life after the Navy if you want to go Nuclear OPS.

Become an MM (Subs), be stellar, cross train, qualify SRO/EO/Aux Elec, and be more than qualified to move on with your life.

Plus MM has a better rating badge, who wants a big ball?

hee hee.

[Sirveri]

To further push MM's, my boat is now allowing MMs to qualify Secondary Chemist.

So you get to pretend to be an ELT... Sort of, still won't let us handle volatile chemicals.

[93-383]

To further push MM's, my boat is now allowing MMs to qualify Secondary Chemist.

So you get to pretend to be an ELT... Sort of, still won't let us handle volatile chemicals.

I assume thats a SSN watch. We hadn't had a 2ndary chemist watch on the CVN for many many years when I was there.

[mooredee13]

To further push MM's, my boat is now allowing MMs to qualify Secondary Chemist.

So you get to pretend to be an ELT... Sort of, still won't let us handle volatile chemicals.

I qualified as a Secondary Chemist on the Nat Greene back in 1984. "Pretend to be an ELT?" I don't think so. I calculated and conducted blowdowns and additions just like a "real" ELT would, all while supervising ELTs standing U/I watches under me.

Besides, unlike an ELT, I still stood up to pee.

Dave

[xobxdoc]

you would have taken ELT school if they offered it to you.

[JustinHEMI05]

To further push MM's, my boat is now allowing MMs to qualify Secondary Chemist.

So you get to pretend to be an ELT... Sort of, still won't let us handle volatile chemicals.

Its another bullet on your resume. Might be slightly more impressive than "I turned valves for 6 years." Just my opinion.

Justin

[Marlin]

Besides, unlike an ELT, I still stood up to pee.
Dave

If we ELTs sat around the engine room drinking coffee all day we would have to stand up to get to the John too!!!  Our ELTs were to industrious to warm the benches.

P.S. MMs made so many mistakes on secondaries that only ELTs were permitted to perform them on one of my boats. The only chemistry our MMs did was not plant related, well "plant" related but not reactor plant related.

(Geez... when will MMs get over not having made the grade to ELT school.)

[xobxdoc]

Our MMs found the turbidity test very challenging

[Fermi2]

I assume thats a SSN watch. We hadn't had a 2ndary chemist watch on the CVN for many many years when I was there.

Were you on a Nimitz class carrier? If so there was a good reason why you didn't have secondary chemists.

Mike

[Gamecock]

(Geez... when will MMs get over not having made the grade to ELT school.)

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

[Marlin]

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

It was somewhat mixed in my day too but mostly top third of the class, they even tried Electrians for a short period of time. I just couldn't help myself though I had to take a jab, just a weakness. 

[Cycoticpenguin]

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

[ddklbl]

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

 

"They" was a good friend.  "They" liked to pick a balanced group from the applicants who expressed interest.  Sometimes "we" used the force on "you" to ensure a balanced pool of applicants submitted request chits. 


*edit*  Someone dock a few karma points away for the shameless starwars plug.  I really don't like doing that.  "That" being using a starwars reference and not my powers of coercion.

[JustinHEMI05]

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

What do you know??? I was part of that "they" and I never once chose I student I "liked." 9 times out of 10 I didn't even know them. Get your facts straight.

Justin

[ddklbl]

For those that had trouble reading the fine print in that last post.

Well, that modest attempt to make a joke went from barely marginal to not funny real quick.  The least you could do, while splashing it in red, is honor the request.  That would have been funny.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

[xobxdoc]

It's about the same for license class picks at a non union plant.

[Gamecock]

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

You need to grow up.  Seems like you have an attitude problem.  "They" are not out to get you.  I'm guessing your not "liked" by "them."  Work harder!!!  If you are ahead of the curve and generally not an idiot when you stand watch, then you will be "liked" by "Them."  Maybe you should study more and post here less.

[mlslstephens]

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

[Fermi2]

I've yet to see Cycoticpenguin act anything except grown up. While at times his opinions are misguided and not based entirely on all applicable information I have yet to see him say anything about not working hard. In fact at times I think he might be a bit too much gung ho.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

I've yet to see Cycoticpenguin act anything except grown up. While at times his opinions are misguided and not based entirely on all applicable information I have yet to see him say anything about not working hard. In fact at times I think he might be a bit too much gung ho.

Mike

I agree. I think this time he is just a little emotional about this topic for some reason. Which is ok... I tend to run at the mouth too.

Justin

[135i]

ET was my #1, simply because the schooling seemed harder, at the time, and they got the bigger bonus. I ended up with EM, and while we get the short end of the stick when it comes to the bonuses, we actually have the harder schooling, and I enjoy every minute of it.

Harder schooling?

Equip vs. IC&E... I never heard an EM talking about how hard Equip was.

Same thing in Power School and Prototype... RPA, Core Physics, etc. vs. In Hull Power Dist, Motor Controllers

Not sure where this harder schooling comes from.

As for the ELT issue, I'm with Gamecock on this one. Sounds like penguin got passed over for ELT. The only problem I saw with that is they picked a less qualified female over a male simply because they want women more represented.

It's not a popularity contest like you think it is, believe me.

[DSO]

I totally believe that they pick who they like---thats the way it is in companies on the outside also. I do remember prototype qual

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

ification as being very political---not nearly as objective as Nuke school. Just because one is enlightened to this doesn't mean he has a bad attitude or is not mature----but I can see this as a precursor to a bad attitude, as people are not picked soley on merit in all aspects of life----If you don't belive this or can't handle this---you are either gullible, inept or one of "them" that does the beauty pageant choosing.

[Wareal]

Harder schooling?

Equip vs. IC&E... I never heard an EM talking about how hard Equip was.

Same thing in Power School and Prototype... RPA, Core Physics, etc. vs. In Hull Power Dist, Motor Controllers

Not sure where this harder schooling comes from.

As for the ELT issue, I'm with Gamecock on this one. Sounds like penguin got passed over for ELT. The only problem I saw with that is they picked a less qualified female over a male simply because they want women more represented.

It's not a popularity contest like you think it is, believe me.

You sound like yer Dad; you can always tell an Irishman, you just can't tell him much.  Nice to see you made it here.

[Kev3399]

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

Something commonly forgotten. Its amazing what a little attitude and hard work will get for you.

Who wants to be an ELT anyway?? From a career standpoint, IMHO hardest rate to advance to CPO. I saw more outstanding ELTs get passed up year to year than any other rate.

[Gamecock]

Something commonly forgotten. Its amazing what a little attitude and hard work will get for you.

Who wants to be an ELT anyway?? From a career standpoint, IMHO hardest rate to advance to CPO. I saw more outstanding ELTs get passed up year to year than any other rate.

I to have known several great ELT's who had a hard time making chief.  So, that is why I had a conversation on this very topic with the Leading ELT when I was a LT on staff of Submarine Squadron 16.  The Master chief made E9 in 13 years.  He said something to this effect. 

"ELT is not a rate.  If you want to make chief, you have to remember that your a MM first.   So, if your a good MM, you already have a leg up on your peers, because you have a very important collateral duty.  Being an ELT shouldn't make it harder to make chief, it should make it easier!"

[JustinHEMI05]

I to have known several great ELT's who had a hard time making chief.  So, that is why I had a conversation on this very topic with the Leading ELT when I was a LT on staff of Submarine Squadron 16.  The Master chief made E9 in 13 years.  He said something to this effect. 

"ELT is not a rate.  If you want to make chief, you have to remember that your a MM first.   So, if your a good MM, you already have a leg up on your peers, because you have a very important collateral duty.  Being an ELT shouldn't make it harder to make chief, it should make it easier!"

Ah the old MM vs ELT thing. But I agree with the MMCM, ELT is a great collateral duty and you have to remember your roots. My LELT made us be mechanics first, then ELTs. I did the same. Some guys grumbled at first, but then realized that it is important to their careers to do both. RL and M div had a strong working relationship on my boat. ELTs weren't stuck in ERF like on most boats because of it. ELTs were often elbows deep fixing the evaporator or repacking HPDs. It really made them better ELTs and if they wanted, could even do a stint as MLPO. THAT is how ELTs make Chief and become the God's they are.

Now, because of a certain person they made Chief this year, I might have to call BS on everything I just said. Since manning is so bad it seems they are making anyone that can fog a mirror Chief... kinda like JOs. 

Justin

[Already Gone]

Oh give it a rest.
ELT has NEVER been a collateral duty.  It has always been a primary NEC.
MM is an enormous rate, many of whom NEVER EVER see an engine room after A school let alone a nuke one.
Prototypes have always had peculiar ways of picking ELT's, in my day there were still a few who were IC's, but not many.  My impression of my class was that MM's who failed their board were staff pickups, and MM's who weren't very good with a wrench were ELT's.  Naturally, we were better wrench-monkeys than the average person, just not so talented as the M-Divvers who were always upside-down doing some valve and bearing work.
Making MMC had very little to do with being an ELT because very few ELT's stuck around that long anyway.  I can't think of any I ever served with who had been in more than 8 years except for one who was the MLPO on my second ship and another who was the CO.  (It was nice being LELT with an MLPO and a Captain who were former ELT's.)  Back then, you kept your ELT NEC when you made chief but you couldn't fill an ELT or LELT billet because they were all E-6 and below assignments.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

We all did our jobs, and this childish jealousy over RL vs M-Div is just that and no more.  If you weren't an ELT, just thank God for that and let it go.  If you were one, then thank Him for giving you the patience to put up with all the jerks who made you carry the full M-Div load and "allowed" you to go off and do your actual job in your spare time.  In their defense, I have to note that a sub can do with only 3 ELT's in a pinch, and 5 would be enough always.  The fact that we had 7 of them meant that they were getting shorted manpower to provide for that.  So, don't hate them too much.

[93-383]

.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

what years where you in? the advancment exams have been nuke specific for a while now

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh give it a rest.
ELT has NEVER been a collateral duty.  It has always been a primary NEC.
MM is an enormous rate, many of whom NEVER EVER see an engine room after A school let alone a nuke one.
Prototypes have always had peculiar ways of picking ELT's, in my day there were still a few who were IC's, but not many.  My impression of my class was that MM's who failed their board were staff pickups, and MM's who weren't very good with a wrench were ELT's.  Naturally, we were better wrench-monkeys than the average person, just not so talented as the M-Divvers who were always upside-down doing some valve and bearing work.
Making MMC had very little to do with being an ELT because very few ELT's stuck around that long anyway.  I can't think of any I ever served with who had been in more than 8 years except for one who was the MLPO on my second ship and another who was the CO.  (It was nice being LELT with an MLPO and a Captain who were former ELT's.)  Back then, you kept your ELT NEC when you made chief but you couldn't fill an ELT or LELT billet because they were all E-6 and below assignments.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

We all did our jobs, and this childish jealousy over RL vs M-Div is just that and no more.  If you weren't an ELT, just thank God for that and let it go.  If you were one, then thank Him for giving you the patience to put up with all the jerks who made you carry the full M-Div load and "allowed" you to go off and do your actual job in your spare time.  In their defense, I have to note that a sub can do with only 3 ELT's in a pinch, and 5 would be enough always.  The fact that we had 7 of them meant that they were getting shorted manpower to provide for that.  So, don't hate them too much.

I disagree. I was an ELT and my rating badge was MM. ELTs count towards M div manning. But who cares really?

Justin

[Rad Sponge]

In simplest terms, An MM can't do 95% of what and ELT  can do, and an ELT can do anything an MM can do, so I guess the idea that an ELT is and MM with a collat is pretty much BS and always has been.

I knew I would not be a very good MMC cause MM stuff did not concern me. What concerned me was RL Div admin and ORSE. Sure, I'd keep my bilges clean and clean the vertigre off valves, but beyond that, beyond taking logs and looking for problems, there were plenty of MMs playing poker while my RL div was auditing our records.

I got picked up ELT because I worked my ass off since Boot Camp.

And they liked me.

What's not to like, I was working my ass off.

[Cycoticpenguin]

You need to grow up.  Seems like you have an attitude problem.  "They" are not out to get you.  I'm guessing your not "liked" by "them."  Work harder!!!  If you are ahead of the curve and generally not an idiot when you stand watch, then you will be "liked" by "Them."  Maybe you should study more and post here less.

Sir,
I would just like to say I turned down ELT school, stayed WELL ahead of the curve, had the highest watch standing average in my section, and am a qualified nuclear operator. My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.

[Rad Sponge]

Sir,
I would just like to say I turned down ELT school, stayed WELL ahead of the curve, had the highest watch standing average in my section, and am a qualified nuclear operator. My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.

Yeah, that's worth a karma point.

Are you ever going to sea?

[Cycoticpenguin]

Yeah, that's worth a karma point.

Are you ever going to sea?

haha yes! after so long and so many delays!

Im heading to the Eisenhower,  reporting Jan 16 .   

[mlslstephens]

My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.

Cyco..., you can PM me and ask not to be "abused" if you want, but this isn't abuse.  As for you giving "newbies" advice...let the staff do that.  You need some time on the pond before you should give advice.

[Already Gone]

what years where you in? the advancment exams have been nuke specific for a while now

I don't really like feeling old, but I probably got my dolphins pinned on the same day you got your first tooth.  There were still one or two RO's who were former Enginemen and a few ELT's who were still IC men.  About that time the nuke IC's all got converted to EM's.  I don't know what happened to the IC ELT's
The Navy still had BT's, but all the nuke BT's were converted to MM's years before.  An ELT could make MMC, but an MMC could not be an ELT.  Our enemy spoke Russian and the Mujahedin were our "allies".  No US nuclear sub had ever fired a warshot - torpedo or missile, and Saddam Hussein was on our side (yeah, right) except for that one time he "accidentally" shot a missile into one of our frigates.
The ship's movies were shown with a projector on a screen in the mess.  Each movie took up more room than a year's worth of DVD's.
There was no such thing as a portable CD player or DVD.  The Sony Walkman was the most popular item that we owned.  A good one cost about $100.  (That is $195 in today's dollars).
As an E-6 over 8 with over 5 years at sea, with Base Pay, Sea Pay, Continuation Sea Pay, Proficiency Pay, Sub Pay, BAQ, BAS, and Variable Housing Allowance for Groton/New London, I took home $280 a week ($600 twice a month) even though there waas no state income tax in Connecticut back then.
Most of the questions on my MM1 exam were about cruising turbines, refrigeration units, catapults, and doing chloride samples the "conventional" (not nuclear) way.  There was nothing nuclear on the whole thing.  I was also the only MM (at least the first) on the SSN 704 to be qualified Throttleman, but there were a ton of questions on my MM2 exam about that.

So, you can see that a lot of things were very different back then.  I know a few guys here are laughing at this because they WERE the Engineman RO's or Boiler Technician MO's or Interior Communications Electrician ELT's.  The only thing that seems to be the same is that M-Divvers and ELT's are still having this JUVENILE argument!!!

How about a dose of reality?  All of you - flangeheads, spark-chasers, twidgets, and SMAG's - are taking a boat ride while my baby daughter is ducking pieces of her friends' bodies on some booby-trapped road in Iraq.  Some of you have been wearing a National Defense Ribbon since the day you left Boot Camp.  I hope you never have to earn it the hard way.  I hope you never have to be as much of a "man" as that 5'1" tall 102# Staff Sergeant is having to be.


I appreciate all of you young people serving your country.  I really do.  You are, in my book, the last best hope that this country has for remaining civilized.  But, you have it as easy as I did.  Your enemy has essentially no means to harm you in your armed and fortified ships as long as you can keep them from coming alongside with a boatload of TNT.  So, if some of you feel cheated that it is harder to make E-7 than others, just remember that the guys doing the dying out there are not living long enough to make E-5.  Those who survive are lucky to make E-6 in their first eight years - if then.  Tours are being extended to as long as two years or more.

Take what you have.  Be thankful for it.  That thing about thanking God that I put in my last post ... I meant that.

[JustinHEMI05]

How about a dose of reality?  All of you - flangeheads, spark-chasers, twidgets, and SMAG's - are taking a boat ride while my baby daughter is ducking pieces of her friends' bodies on some booby-trapped road in Iraq.  Some of you have been wearing a National Defense Ribbon since the day you left Boot Camp.  I hope you never have to earn it the hard way.  I hope you never have to be as much of a "man" as that 5'1" tall 102# Staff Sergeant is having to be.


I appreciate all of you young people serving your country.  I really do.  You are, in my book, the last best hope that this country has for remaining civilized.  But, you have it as easy as I did.  Your enemy has essentially no means to harm you in your armed and fortified ships as long as you can keep them from coming alongside with a boatload of TNT.  So, if some of you feel cheated that it is harder to make E-7 than others, just remember that the guys doing the dying out there are not living long enough to make E-5.  Those who survive are lucky to make E-6 in their first eight years - if then.  Tours are being extended to as long as two years or more.

Take what you have.  Be thankful for it.  That thing about thanking God that I put in my last post ... I meant that.

You were kidding about all of this... right?

Justin

[mlslstephens]

Justin...

Try this link:

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,9436.0.html

(It is available to you for a short period of time.  This is a Gold Members area post so for now you can see it.)

Jason,
Thanks for the link.  I'm amazed that the TV station still has the archived video of the SSGT's story from last Thanksgiving.

Beercourt,
Yes, you have much to be proud of as I'm sure she is much more of a "man" than most subguys.  However, I would imagine that you have much to be proud of without her uniform.  She sounds like a good Mom and a great daughter. 
The video from last thanksgiving mentioned that your daughter might have another year in Iraq.  Is she still forward deployed?

I don't really like feeling old, but I probably got my dolphins pinned on the same day you got your first tooth.  There were still one or two RO's who were former Enginemen and a few ELT's who were still IC men.  About that time the nuke IC's all got converted to EM's.  I don't know what happened to the IC ELT's
The Navy still had BT's, but all the nuke BT's were converted to MM's years before.  An ELT could make MMC, but an MMC could not be an ELT.  Our enemy spoke Russian and the Mujahedin were our "allies".  No US nuclear sub had ever fired a warshot - torpedo or missile, and Saddam Hussein was on our side (yeah, right) except for that one time he "accidentally" shot a missile into one of our frigates.
The ship's movies were shown with a projector on a screen in the mess.  Each movie took up more room than a year's worth of DVD's.
There was no such thing as a portable CD player or DVD.  The Sony Walkman was the most popular item that we owned.  A good one cost about $100. 

I especially your trip down memory lane.  There is an enormous talk on this website about "show me the money" but 22 years ago my pay checks were only about a third of my "sub pay" today.  I was an unqualified E-4 eating PB&J six nights a week and I was having the time of my life.  I too remember seeing a movie shown from a projector, but I'm not sure why I was even watching...because I wasn't qualified yet.  I was a non-qual and didn't deserve to be in the mess decks after the meal hour.  I also remember that glorious day when Captain Marks pinned those beautiful silver dolphins on my chest.  Wow, I was a submariner and I was proud.  Then I walked into a room full of A-gangers and the smallest one of them all, MM1 Stewart, shook my hand and then broke the backs of my dolphins.  He said, "Now, you are a submariner."  He did it out of respect and I am glad he tacked my dolphins on.  That is something that is gone forever. 

haha yes! after so long and so many delays!

Im heading to the Eisenhower,  reporting Jan 16 .  

Cycoticpenguin, congratulations on qualifying!  It sounds like the Eisenhower is getting a great mechanic.  Enjoy this time and enjoy your first day underway.  There will never be another "first" day.  Don't forget what they taught you at NPTU. WSP are extremely important and always relevent.  Best of luck and thanks for serving.

[JustinHEMI05]

Justin...

Try this link:

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,9436.0.html

(It is available to you for a short period of time.  This is a Gold Members area post so for now you can see it.)

I am very happy and thankful that she is serving our country in this capacity. I am sure BeerCourt must be very proud, and has every right to be. But to suggest that my service to this country was any less "manly" is complete BS. 100 days submerged takes every bit of manly guts. And to belittle other service members concerns because they aren't being shot at every day does them and his daughter a complete disservice. That is all I am saying on this.

Justin

[mlslstephens]

I am very happy and thankful that she is serving our country in this capacity. I am sure BeerCourt must be very proud, and has every right to be. But to suggest that my service to this country was any less "manly" is complete BS. 100 days submerged takes every bit of manly guts. And to belittle other service members concerns because they aren't being shot at every day does them and his daughter a complete disservice. That is all I am saying on this.

Justin

Justin,
I too was initially a bit taken back by Beercourt's post about not being manly.  However, acting looking back through all the posts and knowing how BC feels about his own service, I don't think that BC was saying that the different branches of service should be compared by the number of bullets flying.  We all know that there are dangers for each service.  If you think the sub service is immune, take a look at the San Fran's bow, or ask the families of the Thresher or Scorpion.  It kind of goes back to the choose your rate, choose your fate old saying.  I chose the sub service because I don't like being shot at or eating MREs.  I prefer looking out the scope, saying snapshot tube 1 and then getting off watch and eating a big fat juicy T-bone steak with some hard pack to follow.

NavLI4

[Already Gone]

Yes, she's still in Iraq.

Naturally, I am very proud of her.

I'm also proud of all of you.  I count my self among you, and that makes me proud of myself.

But, I can't compare what we do/did to what is being faced down daily by those in the front lines.  The nature of war from the perspective of the submariner has changed from one of the riskiest, deadliest, scariest assignments to one of relative safety.  There aren't Japanese destroyers depth charging you anymore.  There aren't Soviet Alpha's riding your baffles with a torpedo in the tube anymore.  (Believe that if you want to.  I still think Russia would be tracking our boats if they had the money to keep their boats at sea.)
The nature of war for the soldier or marine is still a lot like it has always been.  They're shooting at and blowing up our bravest Americans every day.
But danger isn't the only hardsip of military service.  I know that as well as you do.  You have it a lot worse than the slackass kids I see working at Starbuck's.  However, bitching about who has it tougher isn't going to happen here without my reminding you who has it a lot tougher than you do.  Complain al you want, but strap yourselves in if you choose to participate, 'cause it ain't going to be no cakewalk.

Respect, pride, gratitude.  All these things I have in abundance for all of you.  Sympathy?  No way, Sailor!  Go get your sympathy from Mama.

[JustinHEMI05]

Yes, she's still in Iraq.

Naturally, I am very proud of her.

I'm also proud of all of you.  I count my self among you, and that makes me proud of myself.

But, I can't compare what we do/did to what is being faced down daily by those in the front lines.  The nature of war from the perspective of the submariner has changed from one of the riskiest, deadliest, scariest assignments to one of relative safety.  There aren't Japanese destroyers depth charging you anymore.  There aren't Soviet Alpha's riding your baffles with a torpedo in the tube anymore.  (Believe that if you want to.  I still think Russia would be tracking our boats if they had the money to keep their boats at sea.)
The nature of war for the soldier or marine is still a lot like it has always been.  They're shooting at and blowing up our bravest Americans every day.
But danger isn't the only hardsip of military service.  I know that as well as you do.  You have it a lot worse than the slackass kids I see working at Starbuck's.  However, bitching about who has it tougher isn't going to happen here without my reminding you who has it a lot tougher than you do.  Complain al you want, but strap yourselves in if you choose to participate, 'cause it ain't going to be no cakewalk.

Respect, pride, gratitude.  All these things I have in abundance for all of you.  Sympathy?  No way, Sailor!  Go get your sympathy from Mama.

Thats the thing BeerCourt, no one ever asked for your sympathy. Nor did you only suggest that some might have it harder than others. In that, is why I love Marines. They are willing to go face to face with the enemy and get in "the shit." That way, none of us have to. Of course being on the front line is probably the toughest thing one can do. No one is disagreeing with that. But you suggested that those NOT on the front line don't have the right to be unhappy with their situation. That is what I am throwing the BS flag on. No one started a comparison of hardnesses, except you. And frankly, I don't give a crap who has it tougher. Its apples and oranges and the situations between say your daughter and cycoticpenguin are worlds apart. Like NavLiv said here, choose your rate choose your fate applies. And hardships endures by sailors may not be as hard as your daughters, but they are hardships none the less and who are you to make less of them?

Justin

PS I guess I lied when I said that was all I was going to say about this... but I really mean it this time.

[mooredee13]

Okay, so I'm NOT a Gold Member (but my Winky does glow from my time as a nuke!) and I'm not currently in the nuclear industry (chemical manufacturing...bad enough), but I think I qualify to toss in my $0.02 since I have done my boomer patrols and 120-hour weeks (at least as commissioning approached) in the shipyard AND I have a son currently deployed as a SAW gunner (he's the kid in the turret of the Humvee with the B-I-G gun) with a Marine unit in Iraq.

There are a lot of folks out there who could not do what we did (and do for those of you still on active duty) in submersible sewer pipes for 70 seconds---let alone 70 days---at a pop. It also takes a special kind of person to run patrols (mounted OR foot) every night in an area where many of the natives really don't want you in the first place. In my conversations with some of these kids that my son serves with, when they find out that I served on submarines those big, bad sumbitches get these real funny looks on their faces and, in all seriousness, say to me, "No f&#*in' way I would ever do that!"

It's all perspective, people and the last time I looked we were all supposed to be on the same side. Hell, I never even wanted to hop and pop on a fast boat while I was in because I thought that would be like going from the frying pan into the fire.

Yeah, I remember when I got to my first boat we had one nuke IC1 left (Pete Ford...hope you're doing alright if you're out there, brother) who strongly resisted being "assimilated" into the EM rate, but the Nav won and he became an EM. I think the first VCR we had in the crew lounge was a Beta and, yes, we had ye olde projector for burning flicks on the mess decks. Anyone fondly remember the Sunstrand system (for your repeated listening pleasure)? I still have my Walkman out in the garage!

Sorry for the impromptu walk down memory lane. "You got your manhood back, Coach Kline!! You got your manhood!!"

[dgcaste]

Here's one sentence that sounds like all of you:

"I worked so hard, I'm so courageous, I know so much more than you, You're wrong, I'm right".

One of the biggest blunders of the nuke community is that instead of people collaborating, they're always conspiring to look better than the guy next to them. Do the job and go home!

[Already Gone]

Stir all you want.;  Otherwise the good stuff sticks to the bottom and burns.

Look, stop being so stinkin' defenseve you guys.  Like Gamecock says, nobody is immune from forward deployment, but THAT is when you need to start looking at things and wondering if you're getting it in the out door.  Whether or not being an ELT is a collateral duty, whether or not it makes it harder to get MMC, or whether or not the "children" who run the prototype like you, you have a job to do.  You ought to be concentrating on the important stuff and leave the Junior High School stuff back home in Iowa.

I never meant to insult anyone's manhood here, but if my remarks hit that close to home, you were probably right at the brink anyway.  So, take a deep breath, stop whining, and go do your best.  You will NEVER regret what you are about to do - no matter how much it seems to suck or how unfairly you feel you are being treated.  Your worst day, week, year or decade in the Navy is just a down payment for a future that is practically guaranteed to be a success.  Look at it as putting money in the bank.

[mlslstephens]

I leave for bootcamp in a few months and heard from an "unreliable source" that Navy Nuke Rates are chosen during bootcamp by the Nuke Chiefs there and I will have no say so in the matter.  Is this true?

I need to know because I really don't want to be put in a job for the next six years that I had no choice in.   

Hope this is false, but need verification.

I thought this was funny.    A new user, 81038205, asked a relatively simple question and within a month we go from "Who is better" question to newbies being insulted by an old timer to why the Army and Marine Corps make better lead sponges than Navy people...and finally the answer to the aged old question, why do you need to stir the pot??? 

  Otherwise the good stuff sticks to the bottom and burns.

It reminds me of a famous quote by a famous Colonel:

Son, we live in a world that has logs, and those logs have to be taken by men with pens. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for trends, and you curse the out of specs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That a low level alarm, while tragic, probably saves equipment. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves EFPH. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in the mess decks, you want me on watch, you need me on watch. We use words like coner, boomer fag, plastic cow. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in between 24 nuclear missiles, and then questions the manner in which I do wake ups. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up your logs, and stand a watch. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[JustinHEMI05]

LOL yes, this thread has gotten out of control. Merry Christmas everyone!

Justin

[cincinnatinuke]

It reminds me of a famous quote by a famous Colonel:

Son, we live in a world that has logs, and those logs have to be taken by men with pens. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for trends, and you curse the out of specs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That a low level alarm, while tragic, probably saves equipment. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves EFPH. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in the mess decks, you want me on watch, you need me on watch. We use words like coner, boomer fag, plastic cow. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in between 24 nuclear missiles, and then questions the manner in which I do wake ups. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up your logs, and stand a watch. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Flippin' hilarious!

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   
   who was the colonel

[Kev3399]

I thought this was funny.    A new user, 81038205, asked a relatively simple question and within a month we go from "Who is better" question to newbies being insulted by an old timer to why the Army and Marine Corps make better lead sponges than Navy people...and finally the answer to the aged old question, why do you need to stir the pot??? 

It reminds me of a famous quote by a famous Colonel:

Son, we live in a world that has logs, and those logs have to be taken by men with pens. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for trends, and you curse the out of specs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That a low level alarm, while tragic, probably saves equipment. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves EFPH. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in the mess decks, you want me on watch, you need me on watch. We use words like coner, boomer fag, plastic cow. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in between 24 nuclear missiles, and then questions the manner in which I do wake ups. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up your logs, and stand a watch. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

I had abandoned this thread for obvious reasons......I take a gander at it today and this is what I see....Outstanding.

Low level alarm, while tragic.........LOL

[Fermi2]

It reminds me of a famous quote by a famous Colonel:

Son, we live in a world that has logs, and those logs have to be taken by men with pens. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for trends, and you curse the out of specs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That a low level alarm, while tragic, probably saves equipment. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves EFPH. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in the mess decks, you want me on watch, you need me on watch. We use words like coner, boomer fag, plastic cow. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in between 24 nuclear missiles, and then questions the manner in which I do wake ups. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up your logs, and stand a watch. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

LMAO!!!!!!!!Funniest post I've read anywhere in a long time, I'll be plagiarizing it!

[PWHoppe]

It reminds me of a famous quote by a famous Colonel:

Son, we live in a world that has logs, and those logs have to be taken by men with pens. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for trends, and you curse the out of specs. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That a low level alarm, while tragic, probably saves equipment. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves EFPH. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in the mess decks, you want me on watch, you need me on watch. We use words like coner, boomer fag, plastic cow. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps in between 24 nuclear missiles, and then questions the manner in which I do wake ups. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up your logs, and stand a watch. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

An absolute classic  ...Karma to 'ya 

[DDMurray]

I also remember that glorious day when Captain Marks pinned those beautiful silver dolphins on my chest.  Wow, I was a submariner and I was proud.  Then I walked into a room full of A-gangers and the smallest one of them all, MM1 Stewart, shook my hand and then broke the backs of my dolphins.  He said, "Now, you are a submariner."  He did it out of respect and I am glad he tacked my dolphins on.  That is something that is gone forever. 

I served with an ET2 Marks whose dad was a sub CO.  I wonder if it's the same CAPT Marks.  My first LPO was an IC1.

[xobxdoc]

I knew of a Marks on the Ohio. Same one?

[mlslstephens]

I served with an ET2 Marks whose dad was a sub CO.  I wonder if it's the same CAPT Marks.  My first LPO was an IC1.

It depends.  Captain Marks did have a son who was an ET.  I was an A school instructor from 91-93 and his son went through the pipeline around the 92 time frame. 
I remember getting a call from Capt Marks and he asked if I would "look after" his son and make sure he kept focused.  Next thing I know, ET3 Marks was graduating A school with highest honors.  Smart kid. 

If the timing works, then I bet it is him.

Makes me want to nail one foot in the ground, spin around and sing, "Its a small world afterall...its a small, small world."

[DDMurray]

It depends.  Captain Marks did have a son who was an ET.  I was an A school instructor from 91-93 and his son went through the pipeline around the 92 time frame. 
I remember getting a call from Capt Marks and he asked if I would "look after" his son and make sure he kept focused.  Next thing I know, ET3 Marks was graduating A school with highest honors.  Smart kid. 

If the timing works, then I bet it is him.

Makes me want to nail one foot in the ground, spin around and sing, "Its a small world afterall...its a small, small world."

I was NNPS Section Advisor/Instructor from Apr 90 to Jun 93.  I was ELCPO on USS HAWKBILL Jul 93 to Feb 98.  I'm sure it was Marks.  He was a smart kid.  His work habits and personal hygiene were what made his reputation on HAWKBILL.  I remember CAPT Marks calling our CO once about how things were going for him. Don't remember the particulars.  He was still on the 666 when I left.

[PWHoppe]

      who was the colonel

If I'm not mistaken it was Col. Nathan R. Jessep