Navy Nuke Rates - Is This True?

[Cycoticpenguin]

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

[ddklbl]

FYI...These days they take a balanced group of MM's to be ELT's, not just from the top.   They take guys from the top, middle, and bottom in order to balance.

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

  

"They" was a good friend.  "They" liked to pick a balanced group from the applicants who expressed interest.  Sometimes "we" used the force on "you" to ensure a balanced pool of applicants submitted request chits. 


*edit*  Someone dock a few karma points away for the shameless starwars plug.  I really don't like doing that.  "That" being using a starwars reference and not my powers of coercion.

[JustinHEMI05]

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

What do you know??? I was part of that "they" and I never once chose I student I "liked." 9 times out of 10 I didn't even know them. Get your facts straight.

Justin

[ddklbl]

For those that had trouble reading the fine print in that last post.

Well, that modest attempt to make a joke went from barely marginal to not funny real quick.  The least you could do, while splashing it in red, is honor the request.  That would have been funny.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

[xobxdoc]

It's about the same for license class picks at a non union plant.

[Gamecock]

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

You need to grow up.  Seems like you have an attitude problem.  "They" are not out to get you.  I'm guessing your not "liked" by "them."  Work harder!!!  If you are ahead of the curve and generally not an idiot when you stand watch, then you will be "liked" by "Them."  Maybe you should study more and post here less.

[mlslstephens]

Incorrect - they take who they like. Im not even kidding. Every once in a while they take braniacs. the rest are the mechanics the ELT's like.

I say this, based on the fact they DO choose people they like. It may work out where its a "balanced" group, but bottom line is they decide who they like and who they dont. The staff ELT's put up their selections of whom they like, and if the Chief in charge of choosing them gets input on a said person: "hey, that kids a douche bag, dont pick him up", he's not going to be picked up.

I dont say this lightly, I say this sincerely. If people nowadays want to be picked up, they need to be liked. Simple as that. Im not saying everyone is going to pick like that, but you probably havent met our staff members either.

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

[Fermi2]

I've yet to see Cycoticpenguin act anything except grown up. While at times his opinions are misguided and not based entirely on all applicable information I have yet to see him say anything about not working hard. In fact at times I think he might be a bit too much gung ho.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

I've yet to see Cycoticpenguin act anything except grown up. While at times his opinions are misguided and not based entirely on all applicable information I have yet to see him say anything about not working hard. In fact at times I think he might be a bit too much gung ho.

Mike

I agree. I think this time he is just a little emotional about this topic for some reason. Which is ok... I tend to run at the mouth too.

Justin

[135i]

ET was my #1, simply because the schooling seemed harder, at the time, and they got the bigger bonus. I ended up with EM, and while we get the short end of the stick when it comes to the bonuses, we actually have the harder schooling, and I enjoy every minute of it.

Harder schooling?

Equip vs. IC&E... I never heard an EM talking about how hard Equip was.

Same thing in Power School and Prototype... RPA, Core Physics, etc. vs. In Hull Power Dist, Motor Controllers

Not sure where this harder schooling comes from.

As for the ELT issue, I'm with Gamecock on this one. Sounds like penguin got passed over for ELT. The only problem I saw with that is they picked a less qualified female over a male simply because they want women more represented.

It's not a popularity contest like you think it is, believe me.

[DSO]

I totally believe that they pick who they like---thats the way it is in companies on the outside also. I do remember prototype qual

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

ification as being very political---not nearly as objective as Nuke school. Just because one is enlightened to this doesn't mean he has a bad attitude or is not mature----but I can see this as a precursor to a bad attitude, as people are not picked soley on merit in all aspects of life----If you don't belive this or can't handle this---you are either gullible, inept or one of "them" that does the beauty pageant choosing.

[Wareal]

Harder schooling?

Equip vs. IC&E... I never heard an EM talking about how hard Equip was.

Same thing in Power School and Prototype... RPA, Core Physics, etc. vs. In Hull Power Dist, Motor Controllers

Not sure where this harder schooling comes from.

As for the ELT issue, I'm with Gamecock on this one. Sounds like penguin got passed over for ELT. The only problem I saw with that is they picked a less qualified female over a male simply because they want women more represented.

It's not a popularity contest like you think it is, believe me.

You sound like yer Dad; you can always tell an Irishman, you just can't tell him much.  Nice to see you made it here.

[Kev3399]

Kind of sounds like you have two strikes against you: you're aren't a "brainiac" and they don't like you. 
Take it from an ol' timer...attitude is everything!  Stop feeling sorry for your self and work hard.

Something commonly forgotten. Its amazing what a little attitude and hard work will get for you.

Who wants to be an ELT anyway?? From a career standpoint, IMHO hardest rate to advance to CPO. I saw more outstanding ELTs get passed up year to year than any other rate.

[Gamecock]

Something commonly forgotten. Its amazing what a little attitude and hard work will get for you.

Who wants to be an ELT anyway?? From a career standpoint, IMHO hardest rate to advance to CPO. I saw more outstanding ELTs get passed up year to year than any other rate.

I to have known several great ELT's who had a hard time making chief.  So, that is why I had a conversation on this very topic with the Leading ELT when I was a LT on staff of Submarine Squadron 16.  The Master chief made E9 in 13 years.  He said something to this effect. 

"ELT is not a rate.  If you want to make chief, you have to remember that your a MM first.   So, if your a good MM, you already have a leg up on your peers, because you have a very important collateral duty.  Being an ELT shouldn't make it harder to make chief, it should make it easier!"

[JustinHEMI05]

I to have known several great ELT's who had a hard time making chief.  So, that is why I had a conversation on this very topic with the Leading ELT when I was a LT on staff of Submarine Squadron 16.  The Master chief made E9 in 13 years.  He said something to this effect. 

"ELT is not a rate.  If you want to make chief, you have to remember that your a MM first.   So, if your a good MM, you already have a leg up on your peers, because you have a very important collateral duty.  Being an ELT shouldn't make it harder to make chief, it should make it easier!"

Ah the old MM vs ELT thing. But I agree with the MMCM, ELT is a great collateral duty and you have to remember your roots. My LELT made us be mechanics first, then ELTs. I did the same. Some guys grumbled at first, but then realized that it is important to their careers to do both. RL and M div had a strong working relationship on my boat. ELTs weren't stuck in ERF like on most boats because of it. ELTs were often elbows deep fixing the evaporator or repacking HPDs. It really made them better ELTs and if they wanted, could even do a stint as MLPO. THAT is how ELTs make Chief and become the God's they are.

Now, because of a certain person they made Chief this year, I might have to call BS on everything I just said. Since manning is so bad it seems they are making anyone that can fog a mirror Chief... kinda like JOs. 

Justin

[Already Gone]

Oh give it a rest.
ELT has NEVER been a collateral duty.  It has always been a primary NEC.
MM is an enormous rate, many of whom NEVER EVER see an engine room after A school let alone a nuke one.
Prototypes have always had peculiar ways of picking ELT's, in my day there were still a few who were IC's, but not many.  My impression of my class was that MM's who failed their board were staff pickups, and MM's who weren't very good with a wrench were ELT's.  Naturally, we were better wrench-monkeys than the average person, just not so talented as the M-Divvers who were always upside-down doing some valve and bearing work.
Making MMC had very little to do with being an ELT because very few ELT's stuck around that long anyway.  I can't think of any I ever served with who had been in more than 8 years except for one who was the MLPO on my second ship and another who was the CO.  (It was nice being LELT with an MLPO and a Captain who were former ELT's.)  Back then, you kept your ELT NEC when you made chief but you couldn't fill an ELT or LELT billet because they were all E-6 and below assignments.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

We all did our jobs, and this childish jealousy over RL vs M-Div is just that and no more.  If you weren't an ELT, just thank God for that and let it go.  If you were one, then thank Him for giving you the patience to put up with all the jerks who made you carry the full M-Div load and "allowed" you to go off and do your actual job in your spare time.  In their defense, I have to note that a sub can do with only 3 ELT's in a pinch, and 5 would be enough always.  The fact that we had 7 of them meant that they were getting shorted manpower to provide for that.  So, don't hate them too much.

[93-383]

.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

what years where you in? the advancment exams have been nuke specific for a while now

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh give it a rest.
ELT has NEVER been a collateral duty.  It has always been a primary NEC.
MM is an enormous rate, many of whom NEVER EVER see an engine room after A school let alone a nuke one.
Prototypes have always had peculiar ways of picking ELT's, in my day there were still a few who were IC's, but not many.  My impression of my class was that MM's who failed their board were staff pickups, and MM's who weren't very good with a wrench were ELT's.  Naturally, we were better wrench-monkeys than the average person, just not so talented as the M-Divvers who were always upside-down doing some valve and bearing work.
Making MMC had very little to do with being an ELT because very few ELT's stuck around that long anyway.  I can't think of any I ever served with who had been in more than 8 years except for one who was the MLPO on my second ship and another who was the CO.  (It was nice being LELT with an MLPO and a Captain who were former ELT's.)  Back then, you kept your ELT NEC when you made chief but you couldn't fill an ELT or LELT billet because they were all E-6 and below assignments.
Anyway, being an ELT was no impediment to make MMC any more than being an A-ganger was.    The exam questions were so ridiculously irrelevant to any nuke MM that it surprises me that any nukes ever made it past MM2 at all.  The only advantage was that we were about 70% smarter than the flangeheads in the conventional fleet who were compteing against us for the promotions.

We all did our jobs, and this childish jealousy over RL vs M-Div is just that and no more.  If you weren't an ELT, just thank God for that and let it go.  If you were one, then thank Him for giving you the patience to put up with all the jerks who made you carry the full M-Div load and "allowed" you to go off and do your actual job in your spare time.  In their defense, I have to note that a sub can do with only 3 ELT's in a pinch, and 5 would be enough always.  The fact that we had 7 of them meant that they were getting shorted manpower to provide for that.  So, don't hate them too much.

I disagree. I was an ELT and my rating badge was MM. ELTs count towards M div manning. But who cares really?

Justin

[Rad Sponge]

In simplest terms, An MM can't do 95% of what and ELT  can do, and an ELT can do anything an MM can do, so I guess the idea that an ELT is and MM with a collat is pretty much BS and always has been.

I knew I would not be a very good MMC cause MM stuff did not concern me. What concerned me was RL Div admin and ORSE. Sure, I'd keep my bilges clean and clean the vertigre off valves, but beyond that, beyond taking logs and looking for problems, there were plenty of MMs playing poker while my RL div was auditing our records.

I got picked up ELT because I worked my ass off since Boot Camp.

And they liked me.

What's not to like, I was working my ass off.

 

[Cycoticpenguin]

You need to grow up.  Seems like you have an attitude problem.  "They" are not out to get you.  I'm guessing your not "liked" by "them."  Work harder!!!  If you are ahead of the curve and generally not an idiot when you stand watch, then you will be "liked" by "Them."  Maybe you should study more and post here less.

Sir,
I would just like to say I turned down ELT school, stayed WELL ahead of the curve, had the highest watch standing average in my section, and am a qualified nuclear operator. My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.





 

[Rad Sponge]

Sir,
I would just like to say I turned down ELT school, stayed WELL ahead of the curve, had the highest watch standing average in my section, and am a qualified nuclear operator. My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.





 

Yeah, that's worth a karma point.

Are you ever going to sea?

[Cycoticpenguin]

Yeah, that's worth a karma point.

Are you ever going to sea?

haha yes! after so long and so many delays!

Im heading to the Eisenhower,  reporting Jan 16 .   

[mlslstephens]

My time here is mostly spent giving insight to the newcomers based on my recent completion of the program. A lot of policies have changed, and I am able to give good advice (i think so ) to newbies.


 

Cyco..., you can PM me and ask not to be "abused" if you want, but this isn't abuse.  As for you giving "newbies" advice...let the staff do that.  You need some time on the pond before you should give advice.

[Already Gone]

what years where you in? the advancment exams have been nuke specific for a while now

I don't really like feeling old, but I probably got my dolphins pinned on the same day you got your first tooth.  There were still one or two RO's who were former Enginemen and a few ELT's who were still IC men.  About that time the nuke IC's all got converted to EM's.  I don't know what happened to the IC ELT's
The Navy still had BT's, but all the nuke BT's were converted to MM's years before.  An ELT could make MMC, but an MMC could not be an ELT.  Our enemy spoke Russian and the Mujahedin were our "allies".  No US nuclear sub had ever fired a warshot - torpedo or missile, and Saddam Hussein was on our side (yeah, right) except for that one time he "accidentally" shot a missile into one of our frigates.
The ship's movies were shown with a projector on a screen in the mess.  Each movie took up more room than a year's worth of DVD's.
There was no such thing as a portable CD player or DVD.  The Sony Walkman was the most popular item that we owned.  A good one cost about $100.  (That is $195 in today's dollars).
As an E-6 over 8 with over 5 years at sea, with Base Pay, Sea Pay, Continuation Sea Pay, Proficiency Pay, Sub Pay, BAQ, BAS, and Variable Housing Allowance for Groton/New London, I took home $280 a week ($600 twice a month) even though there waas no state income tax in Connecticut back then.
Most of the questions on my MM1 exam were about cruising turbines, refrigeration units, catapults, and doing chloride samples the "conventional" (not nuclear) way.  There was nothing nuclear on the whole thing.  I was also the only MM (at least the first) on the SSN 704 to be qualified Throttleman, but there were a ton of questions on my MM2 exam about that.

So, you can see that a lot of things were very different back then.  I know a few guys here are laughing at this because they WERE the Engineman RO's or Boiler Technician MO's or Interior Communications Electrician ELT's.  The only thing that seems to be the same is that M-Divvers and ELT's are still having this JUVENILE argument!!!

How about a dose of reality?  All of you - flangeheads, spark-chasers, twidgets, and SMAG's - are taking a boat ride while my baby daughter is ducking pieces of her friends' bodies on some booby-trapped road in Iraq.  Some of you have been wearing a National Defense Ribbon since the day you left Boot Camp.  I hope you never have to earn it the hard way.  I hope you never have to be as much of a "man" as that 5'1" tall 102# Staff Sergeant is having to be.


I appreciate all of you young people serving your country.  I really do.  You are, in my book, the last best hope that this country has for remaining civilized.  But, you have it as easy as I did.  Your enemy has essentially no means to harm you in your armed and fortified ships as long as you can keep them from coming alongside with a boatload of TNT.  So, if some of you feel cheated that it is harder to make E-7 than others, just remember that the guys doing the dying out there are not living long enough to make E-5.  Those who survive are lucky to make E-6 in their first eight years - if then.  Tours are being extended to as long as two years or more.

Take what you have.  Be thankful for it.  That thing about thanking God that I put in my last post ... I meant that.