Navy Checkout Interview

[number41]

For you guys who went through a checkout interview with the Skipper, XO, or CMC, what did you say?  Did you bitch about everything that you though was wrong with the Navy so that you could move-on with your life?  Did you keep your trap shut, or did you try to give real feedback?  My time is coming and I'm not sure what I'm going to do.  I don't want to burn any bridges, but it would feel really good to vent 13 years of frustration on an O-6   Besides, I'm pretty sure the current chain of command will basically ignore any real feedback I give.


EDIT: Removed all CAPS from the title of thread (no shouting) RT

[thenukeman]

You only got 7 years to go for retirement. Maybe the O6 can work something out for you so that you can stay.

[subshooter]

Having been on the receiving end of checkouts from Sailors leaving the Navy - here is how it is going to go:

1.  If you go into the checkout just complaining, the 0-6 is just going to be looking at his watch every 2 minutes wishing this thing would be over so he can get on with the rest of the 10,000 things he has to do that day.  Thirty seconds after you walk out the door, you will be ignored and forgotten.  Your short term satisfaction from venting will only be replaced with bitterness about the Navy.   You burn a bridge and the command will view you in a more negative light which may be reflected in future job recommendations etc.  Lose - lose situation.  Nobody wins.  Nothing gets improved.

2.  If you go in there with constructive criticism with solutions, perhaps action will be taken to act on your recommendations.  Give him the positive as well as the negative.  Give positive reinforcement on the things that the command was doing right and recommendations on the things they/he can improve upon.   Leave the command better than you found it.  Don't stab anybody in the back in your checkout with the skipper either...it will just be viewed as vindictiveness.  Don't be bitter or petty, you will lose credibility.  You didn't stay in the Navy for over 13 years because it was that bad (which probably included two voluntary reenlistments).  The skipper is not responsible for everything that "is wrong with the Navy" and he wasn't there with you the entire 13 years either.  Give the man a break - I doubt he will ignore what you have to say if you approach him in a mature and professional manner.

Good luck in your future endeavors and thanks for serving our great nation.

Mark

[Kev3399]

I split my checkout interview into two parts essentially. The structure of prototype sort of led to this also. Having an OIC and a CO to checkout with.

The CO I offered constructive criticism with possible answers or solutions. Also all the good things. Very formal and to the point. I went in with a 3X5 card with notes. I did not go in there complaining and crying like a baby. As some have posted........I would have been ignored. Thats ok, I would do the same thing in his shoes.

Whenever I checked out with everyone else, the people I had much more interaction with on a daily basis.(OIC/XO, CMC, CCC) I was a little more aggressive and to the point. Not crying, but telling it how it is. Giving positive and negative feedback and solutions also.

You have to consider your audience. Adjust your presentation and approach accordingly. I knew my CMC for a large portion of my naval career. He was my Dept LCPO when I was a third class. I spent almost 5 years working with him. My conversation with him was very different than my conversation with the CO.

I hope this helps. You're the one who will make your checkout interview useful or useless. It depends on what you want. With your experience as you exit the Navy......I would try to make it useful.

[number41]

nukeman: I gotta be honest.  There is, and let me make this clear, NOTHING that any O-6 can do to get me to stay at this point.  And don't take that the wrong way.  I don't now, nor have I ever, hated the navy.  I'm just determined that I can move on to bigger and better things.  So, even though it's only seven years, I've made-up my mind and by staying I'd only make myself absolutely miserable for the next seven years.

subshooter: I know in my heart that you are right.  And I'm certain that I will either try to actually make the place better on my way out or just keep my mouth shut.  I would like to say that I've always done my best to make a command better, no matter how awful the experience was.  However, the current situation that I am in makes it very tempting to let go of my frustrations on the way out.  The main reason is that, to put it plainly, NTPU Ballson Spa is on the verge of anarchy right now due to the apathy of the senior management at the site.  NAVSEA 08 in their recent outbrief actually said that the command "is not in touch with reality".  The chiefs mess has been trying to take back this situation for nearly a year now, but we are tired of being cut-off at the knees by the gutless wonders that run the place.  But, I digress.  I suppose my best bet is to try and enlighten the C.O. on why he has a large portion of his chief's mess getting-out.  There's not much he can do to fix the problems that bother me, but I bet he could put the word out to the admiral as to why good nuke chiefs would rather get out at 13 than stay in today's navy.

[Wirebiter]

Having done a few of these check-out interviews with a couple of different C.O.'s, all I can say is that you will only get one opportunity at this.  I know that is painfully obvious, but it is a watershed moment in your life.  You are getting to write the final sentences in the 'Navy' chapter of your life.  Make it count.  Say what you know is right, what you see is wrong, and what you feel must happen.

Fair winds and following seas......

-Rob

[Kev3399]

I suppose my best bet is to try and enlighten the C.O. on why he has a large portion of his chief's mess getting-out.  There's not much he can do to fix the problems that bother me, but I bet he could put the word out to the admiral as to why good nuke chiefs would rather get out at 13 than stay in today's navy.

I myself made the decision to leave as a Chief. You are not alone. NPTU Charleston is losing Chiefs between their 8 and 12 year point. The NR CMC's comment as to why......"We're not advancing the right people to Chief". I still don't have civil words to describe my feelings to that comment. That is the level of understanding and insight the program is facing in Washington DC.

I don't mean to sound harsh and angry......but your post brings back the confusing and frustrating feelings of the last year of my career. Thanks for your hard work and dedication up there in NY, I know it hasn't been easy for you all.

[Rad Sponge]

Hey is the NR CMC still CDMCM Scott?

[Marlin]

I myself made the decision to leave as a Chief. You are not alone. NPTU Charleston is losing Chiefs between their 8 and 12 year point. The NR CMC's comment as to why......"We're not advancing the right people to Chief". I still don't have civil words to describe my feelings to that comment. That is the level of understanding and insight the program is facing in Washington DC.

I don't mean to sound harsh and angry......but your post brings back the confusing and frustrating feelings of the last year of my career. Thanks for your hard work and dedication up there in NY, I know it hasn't been easy for you all.

    My first LELT got out at the 18 year mark. He found himself a single parent of two teenage sons and the "needs of the Navy" did not allow anything but an at sea assignment. I myself got out at the 8 year mark because I got tired of hearing your wife didn't come in your seabag  and I was also looking at long sea assignments due to low staffing numbers. I have been out for a while and it is easier to understand with a little time. It is "the service" and sacrifice is expected. There is self fulfillment and pride to be had but at a cost. I look back with a sense of pride and accomplishment but I do not regret my decision to get out, nor did Joe (RIP).

[RodBottom]

I couldn't agree more with the "state of anarchy from management apathy".

I wonder where Justin is on this one. 

Apathy, and blind to dissatisfaction from all ranks, officer and enlisted. No willingness to accept a different viewpoint. Leadership is nothing without adaptability and listening ability. There was none to be found in the upper chain. I know a lot of people say "But you were seven years away!". I don't buy that argument for the same reason Number41 didn't, because life is too short to settle and be unhappy where you are (and where you're going).

Number41, PM me when you get a chance please.

[Kev3399]

Hey is the NR CMC still CDMCM Scott?

No, I am speaking of his relief.

   My first LELT got out at the 18 year mark. He found himself a single parent of two teenage sons and the "needs of the Navy" did not allow anything but an at sea assignment. I myself got out at the 8 year mark because I got tired of hearing your wife didn't come in your seabag  and I was also looking at long sea assignments due to low staffing numbers. I have been out for a while and it is easier to understand with a little time. It is "the service" and sacrifice is expected. There is self fulfillment and pride to be had but at a cost. I look back with a sense of pride and accomplishment but I do not regret my decision to get out, nor did Joe (RIP).

I follow you. It was frustrating to have to make a decision between the job I loved and my family. Things became more clear when job opportunities opened up and alot of advice from honest people I worked with. They kept the pros and cons straight in my head. The detailer also gave a helping hand.

[mlslstephens]

.."We're not advancing the right people to Chief". I still don't have civil words to describe my feelings to that comment.

Hey Chief, LTNS, I remember hearing about that comment.  I was surprised to hear that CMC make that comment.  I have been on the receiving end of many of these check-outs and I too have seen many Chiefs...(and a few E-7s) leave the Navy at their 8 to 12 year mark.  You know my true feelings on your personal decision to leave the Navy and I'll go on record publicly to say again that the Navy selected the RIGHT guy when they selected you!  I've said this before to guys like Justin, but I'll say it to you...move on and forget those words.  You were an awesome Chief and you always gave NPTU your best.  I wish you and your family the best and I thank you for your service!

[ddklbl]

You have to consider your audience.

Do this for more than simply tact.  When I checked out with the CO, I tried to make a point and offer a suggestion about the daily operations of the crews.  He was so far removed from what I was talking about I could have been speaking greek and gotten just as much accomplished.  When he tried to clarify my question, or get to my point it was so far off, the whole ordeal became awkward.  We were talking about apples and oranges.  He had no idea how the crews composed themselves on a daily basis.

When I checked out with the OIC, it was an entirely different atmosphere.  When I went in with issues, he not only commiserated with me, he would one-up me.   

But, that one singular experience showed me something I had known but never seen that clearly.  The CO is so far removed from what really happens on the deckplate by guys blowing sunshine up his rear all day long.  NaVLI4 can't escape the back end of the boat because well meaning guys just can't figure out when to use a torque wrench and when not to. The OIC is trapped in the middle listening to both. 

Again, know your audience and direct you comments appropriately.  It will save you a lot of frustration afterwards.

[mlslstephens]

  NaVLI4 can't escape the back end of the boat because well meaning guys just can't figure out when to use a torque wrench and when not to.  

I can finally laugh at that! 

[Rad Sponge]

No, I am speaking of his relief.

Figured, because Eric would never say that.

[deltarho]

I think it depends on the type of relationship you develop from the beginning of your first meeting.  

I, for example, on a welcome aboard interview had a CO brag that his nuclear reenlistment rate was the highest on the waterfront (this is when the cruisers were still around).  I had been on board for a week and already assessed the morale of the west coast ship reassigned to the east coast--in the first day.

So, my comment to his statement that wiped the biggest grin I ever saw into a spittle producing, vein popping, red face was, "That's because people are reenlisting to get off this ship.  They would rather trade their C/shool for orders anywhere else."

Visa could have shot one of those "priceless" commercials...

Anyhow, he knew from that point on that when I spoke it wasn't to say what I thought he wanted to hear--so I found myself in his stateroom quite a bit for my observations and opinions.

[Kev3399]

move on and forget those words

I'll buy that. Thanks for the reply, maybe my mind gets soured reading all the negative content on this forum sometimes. I really hadn't thought of that specific comment until number41 brought up the issue of Chiefs exiting the Navy early in their careers.

NaVLI4 can't escape the back end of the boat because well meaning guys just can't figure out when to use a torque wrench and when not to.

I need to up my membership so I can give karma. Thanks for the early morning smile. 

Figured, because Eric would never say that.

I never had a problem with Scott. Real nice guy who would listen to anyone.

[Gamecock]

And...always remember....the back you stab today just may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. 
Never sell someone out on your way out the door!!

[Fermi2]

Be polite and offer constructive criticism and possible solutions.
That should be your mantra in every interview you ever do, no matter how frustrated you are.

Mike

[rlbinc]

Oh, by all means, let 'er rip.

I have burnt a few bridges in my lifetime. Some folks swear they smell smoke or still hear crackling noises in the background when I visit. In my humble opinion, venting occasionally avoids overpressurization.

These folks may regret losing you (or not). In either case, you're either going to provide them the feedback that they might think:
1) We can change a few things and try to keep guys like this.
=OR=
2) Hey, that worked, this guy folded up like a nickel kite in a hailstorm.

In either case, you can - and should - vent irrespective of release rates.

We'll teach you what that means on a technical basis, later on.

Rob

[JustinHEMI05]

I couldn't agree more with the "state of anarchy from management apathy".

I wonder where Justin is on this one. 

Apathy, and blind to dissatisfaction from all ranks, officer and enlisted. No willingness to accept a different viewpoint. Leadership is nothing without adaptability and listening ability. There was none to be found in the upper chain. I know a lot of people say "But you were seven years away!". I don't buy that argument for the same reason Number41 didn't, because life is too short to settle and be unhappy where you are (and where you're going).

Number41, PM me when you get a chance please.

LOL he has already covered the fact that the entire COC at NPTU Ballston Spa is lame. However, I submit that my check out interviews went surprisingly well in june. There wasn't any "how could you get out?" In fact, the quote that stands out most in my mind from the CMC was "What must we be doing so terribly wrong to cause someone like you to feel they could no longer succeed in the Navy?" I sat flabbergasted after hearing that while he told me of all of the things he thinks needs fixed. And I agreed with most of them, although he will never get his ideas past other masters or congress for that matter. Beside that, I don't trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. That still doesn't take away from the fact that he didn't blame me for getting out... which is what I fully expected. So maybe that alone is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately they need about 1 million more of those steps.

Now all of that was off topic. As for the actual check out interviews, I agree with others. It does no one any good to just go in there bitching and moaning. I had a list of hot topics which directly caused me to choose to get out, why I thought they were wrong, and how I would fix them. The Plant Manager even took notes... which impressed me to some extent. Number41, knowing how long winded you can be, you need to organize your thoughts and make it brief if you want to get out of there quickly. Besides, they will probably just stop listening to you after about 5 minutes of your rapid spewage.

Justin

[number41]

All I can say is WOW!  It looks like I struck a chord.  Anyway, I think I've basically decided to be the bigger person and make myself really feel better for the long-run by actually trying to make the place better by giving suggestions on how I would do it better.  Like they say, until you've walked a mile in a man's shoes, right?  I don't know that I could run the place any better, but I'm going to go someplace where I actually have to opportunity to try.  Go civilian nuke power! 

I myself made the decision to leave as a Chief. You are not alone. NPTU Charleston is losing Chiefs between their 8 and 12 year point. The NR CMC's comment as to why......"We're not advancing the right people to Chief". I still don't have civil words to describe my feelings to that comment. That is the level of understanding and insight the program is facing in Washington DC.

I don't mean to sound harsh and angry......but your post brings back the confusing and frustrating feelings of the last year of my career. Thanks for your hard work and dedication up there in NY, I know it hasn't been easy for you all.

kev3399, sounds like you and I think alike.  I'm not sure what I'd say to our CMC if he said that in my presence.  I guess things will never change, huh?  I can understand that the Navy isn't for everybody, but when a very senior guy such as the  CMC can't understand the fundamental disrespect he shows by saying something like that, and even worse, when he doesn't seem to want to do anything about the attrition.............I guess it affirms my choice once again.


JASON-YP:  I'm pretty sure the NR CMC is Master Chief Giberti right now.  He's actually a cool guy.  We were stationed together out in Italy for a couple of years.

LOL he has already covered the fact that the entire COC at NPTU Ballston Spa is lame.  However, I submit that my check out interviews went surprisingly well in june. There wasn't any "how could you get out?" In fact, the quote that stands out most in my mind from the CMC was "What must we be doing so terribly wrong to cause someone like you to feel they could no longer succeed in the Navy?" I sat flabbergasted after hearing that while he told me of all of the things he thinks needs fixed. And I agreed with most of them, although he will never get his ideas past other masters or congress for that matter. Beside that, I don't trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. That still doesn't take away from the fact that he didn't blame me for getting out... which is what I fully expected. So maybe that alone is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately they need about 1 million more of those steps.

Now all of that was off topic. As for the actual check out interviews, I agree with others. It does no one any good to just go in there bitching and moaning. I had a list of hot topics which directly caused me to choose to get out, why I thought they were wrong, and how I would fix them. The Plant Manager even took notes... which impressed me to some extent. Number41, knowing how long winded you can be, you need to organize your thoughts and make it brief if you want to get out of there quickly.  Besides, they will probably just stop listening to you after about 5 minutes of your rapid spewage.

Justin

Justin, you're probably right about my long-windedness (is that a word?)  Anyway, I 100% agree with your assessment of the CMC.  I didn't like him before I made chief.  And now that I've gotten to spend more time around him, it has become evident that he is a sniveling, conniving, rat who would sell his grandmother up the river if the CO asked him to.  Once again, I find this topic pissing me off. 

[PapaBear765]

LOL he has already covered the fact that the entire COC at NPTU Ballston Spa is lame. However, I submit that my check out interviews went surprisingly well in june. There wasn't any "how could you get out?" In fact, the quote that stands out most in my mind from the CMC was "What must we be doing so terribly wrong to cause someone like you to feel they could no longer succeed in the Navy?" I sat flabbergasted after hearing that while he told me of all of the things he thinks needs fixed. And I agreed with most of them, although he will never get his ideas past other masters or congress for that matter. Beside that, I don't trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. That still doesn't take away from the fact that he didn't blame me for getting out... which is what I fully expected. So maybe that alone is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately they need about 1 million more of those steps.

Now all of that was off topic. As for the actual check out interviews, I agree with others. It does no one any good to just go in there bitching and moaning. I had a list of hot topics which directly caused me to choose to get out, why I thought they were wrong, and how I would fix them. The Plant Manager even took notes... which impressed me to some extent. Number41, knowing how long winded you can be, you need to organize your thoughts and make it brief if you want to get out of there quickly. Besides, they will probably just stop listening to you after about 5 minutes of your rapid spewage.

Justin

Yeah, the CMC was most likely trying to throw you off-guard...attempting to make you think "Wow, maybe I should stay in."

As for the taking notes...it's a faux concern.  I've seen it so many times that I believe it's a technique that taught at some senior supervisor school or something.  They always make like they're writing something as though they going to use my suggestions for later, but that never happens.  It's just another bull---- move.

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[ddklbl]

As for the taking notes...it's a faux concern.  I've seen it so many times that I believe it's a technique that taught at some senior supervisor school or something.  They always make like they're writing something as though they going to use my suggestions for later, but that never happens.  It's just another bullshit move.

No, not necessarily.  When I checked out from my boat, I was a freshly frocked first and my ENG caught me off gaurd.  I hadn't really thought about the whole check out process when he asked me to come have a seat in his office.  We talked for a little while and I mumbled some crap, again, I had plenty of bitches and moans, but didn't know what I wanted to tell him.  He broke the ice when he opened up his steno pad and said, "3 months ago when Joe checked out, he had the following to say: X, Y, Z."  We talked about how Joe was exceptionally bitter and how those comments probably colored his objectivity, but went on to have an actual meaningful conversation about the truths to his complaints.  Some people really do care, others not so much.  You can't make broad generalizations about a group of people because there is always someone who bucks the system, for better or worse.

Regardless of where he learned to do that technique, DH Leadership for dummies  or elsewhere, I feel that he truly was concerned.

[mlslstephens]

As for the taking notes...it's a faux concern.  I've seen it so many times that I believe it's a technique that taught at some senior supervisor school or something. 
They always make like they're writing something as though they going to use my suggestions for later, but that never happens.  It's just another bullshit move.

That makes me laugh.  Seriously, it makes me laugh.  How did you know about the supervisor school?  Yes, they do teach us to act like we are writing your comments down as if we care about our people. HA! 
There are several techniques used by those of us who "act like we are writing your comments".
There is the "move the hand" like you are writing method...only used by rookie supervisors.  Too easy to get caught.  Then there is the "doodle" method where you actually write something, but it has nothing to do with the svm checking out.  The other methods are to actually write down what is said, and destroy the notes five seconds after the interview.  (This method is actually taught at the "supervisor school")  Finally, my personal favorite, take down notes from what is said, actually engage the person to his/her concerns, let the individual know what things I will actually take for action (some things are just whining and I let them know that), and then after the interview, I compare my notes with previous check out interviews to look for common themes.  Now this last method isn't really taught anywhere at supervisor schools because it shows concern for the individual leaving.

Okay, maybe some sarcasm here.  dd is right, it doesn't matter where they learned the technique, but if they take the time to write it down, they probably care a little.

On a separate note, I have had the occasional check out interview with the guy who always complained about everything and never seemed to do anything.  During that checkout, I don't write anything down, I just listen to him complain more, then I thank him for his service and wish him Good luck.