Experience Vs. Education

[UncaBuffalo]

Just a supplement to the debate over in the commentary section...

[Phurst]

What the difference between 3 months commercial time and 3 months tech time. Being an exELT guess which I picked?

[UncaBuffalo]

What the difference between 3 months commercial time and 3 months tech time.

I just wanted to make clear that the ex-ELT had 3 months "commercial" tech time (in addition to his Navy tech time).

[greengoo]

4 years decon.  At least you'll have someone who has great experience cleaning up their messes.

[RP Instructor]

UB:

I believe your poll is somewhat skewed so as to give you the results you're looking for.
You failed to mention what position it is I'm trying to fill, which would have a major impact on who I chose to hire.
You fail to mention what the candidate with the BS degree majored in. Is the degree directly related to the position I'm trying to fill?
As for the decon tech with 4 months experience as an HP tech: I'd need someone to corroborate his resume. I'm not about to hire him "sight unseen" based on his resume alone.
Similar polls conducted here on "nukeworker" have shown that 50% of the HP tech population has a 2 or 4 year degree, so there is validity to the argument that education is of obvious importance to the techs themselves.

[radgal]

Not enough info to answer question accurately.  What job during your outage and what outage exp does the applicant have.  If you look at Tech resume's they are very discriptive of the jobs they covered and their responsibilities.  Need more info.

[rawtech]

S.S.T. The major reason that most techs that get a degree is so that they can advance to Sr. RP faster. This is not just my opinion either. It is what I've found out from working right along side of those who had a degree & speaking with them. As for me, I worked my way up from the bottom so I feel that nothing on paper can replace experience. Guess how I voted?

[UncaBuffalo]

UB:

I believe your poll is somewhat skewed so as to give you the results you're looking for.
You failed to mention what position it is I'm trying to fill, which would have a major impact on who I chose to hire.
You fail to mention what the candidate with the BS degree majored in. Is the degree directly related to the position I'm trying to fill?
As for the decon tech with 4 months experience as an HP tech: I'd need someone to corroborate his resume. I'm not about to hire him "sight unseen" based on his resume alone.
Similar polls conducted here on "nukeworker" have shown that 50% of the HP tech population has a 2 or 4 year degree, so there is validity to the argument that education is of obvious importance to the techs themselves.

Position being filled : "Outage Tech"  (I was thinking Containment or Drywell Rover type of position)

BS Degree :  Let's assume best-case scenario (Health Physics Degree)

Ex-Decon Tech Resume  :  Is there some reason you single the Ex-Decon Tech out for resume corroboration?   (Esp. in light of the "Degree-Mill" scandals...)

Importance of degree to the technician themselves  :  Absolutely!  From the tech's standpoint, a degree will always be a plus (I have stated this repeatedly on other threads.)  This poll is just to see what weight a person in a hypothetical supervisory position would give to various factors.

Skewed?  :  Certainly it only views one scenario...please help us take any skew away by starting other polls that you feel would help round the picture out.

[UncaBuffalo]

Not enough info to answer question accurately.  What job during your outage and what outage exp does the applicant have.  If you look at Tech resume's they are very discriptive of the jobs they covered and their responsibilities.  Need more info.

Let's assume that whichever job you were staffing all applicants had equivalent relavancy (or irrelavancy) of experience.

[Roll Tide]

As ex-Navy, I was surprised to find the question worded in such a way that my choice was for the deconner. Sorry to the Sailors, but 3 months isn't enough to get them past the Navy way and Navy level of contamination control.

[RP Instructor]

Position being filled : "Outage Tech"  (I was thinking Containment or Drywell Rover type of position)

BS Degree :  Let's assume best-case scenario (Health Physics Degree)

Ex-Decon Tech Resume  :  Is there some reason you single the Ex-Decon Tech out for resume corroboration?   (Esp. in light of the "Degree-Mill" scandals...)
[.[/i]

.

i]The college graduates' degree is verifiable by requesting a grade transcript, and I can verify if the school is accredited.
The ex-Navy ELT will have  discharge paperwork that can be verified.
I want the same type of verification of qualifications from the former decon tech/now HP tech. I want to know what it is I'm getting.
In light of the open position you stated, I would (in all likelihood) go with the "graduated" decon tech, but not without first getting a recommendation from a former supervisor. Bottomline, I want to have confidence in the person I hired.
As for another poll? No, thank you. I'd rather read people's debates on the issue, both pro and con. That tells me more than any poll can.

[UncaBuffalo]

As ex-Navy, I was surprised to find the question worded in such a way that my choice was for the deconner. Sorry to the Sailors, but 3 months isn't enough to get them past the Navy way and Navy level of contamination control.

I totally agree with you that the answer may be different if you go to a longer term of commercial experience...  I worked the shipyards for a while and have a HUGE respect for the Navy training program. 

I chose the 3 months experience to emphasize the time period when background is the leading contributor to how a tech performs.  After a certain number of years, proficiency at job coverage comes down to the personality, work ethic,  & abilities of the individual.

[Dan_E.]

Basing a decision on just the info provided by the poll and assuming that it is complete, I would take the deconner. This person has an extra 4 years of plant experience (alternative education), observing practical working solutions to the different jobs and problems facing a tech in the field. This person's 4 years of cleaning and dealing with contamination gives them additional knowledge as to where it may likely be found on personnel and in the plant.

[Neubium]

The population of radiation protection personnel generally fall in one of 2 categories. Generally, you will have an excellent field tecnician who has worked his/her way up and has loads of experience with a weakness in technical knowledge. They can handle most work flawlessly without direction and would be my first choice in the scenario above. The other group are well versed in technical ability but will and do have trouble in the field. It is easy for a field technician to slip in the technical arena when not applied on a regular basis. I believe a well rounded technician is where we should all work to maintain, but I would lean towards the technician with the experience if they have a good reputation. An excellent decon technician is not the same as a senior technician, but I have worked with many senior deconners that can do the job well.

[alphadude]

yep not enought info. 

the defaut answer would be the ELT because they are technically qualified. (nuke HP/Chem ELT)  no im not an ex ELT nuke-its just a fact that ELTs are qualified hands down.  face it- they are hand picked, battle ready, above average intellegence-although somewhat stubborn at times-and can follow the chain of command-know how to run a business-in other words.

depending on who the deconners worked for-bad habits are hard to break-

the college guy- too fresh and virginal-

[darkmatter]

-its just a fact that ELTs are qualified hands down.  face it- they are hand picked, battle ready, above average intellegence-although somewhat stubborn at times

Perhaps that stubborness you perceive is all that training and experience from Military trying to reconcile with what these Commercial Nukes do to run a Nuclear Outrage. (and who and what does it)

When the House Supervisor didn't know or care about the difference between an Ion Chamber or GM tube----I'm stubborn.
When the House wanted to wrap bare lead sheets around a Boron encrusted valve Hot Spot----I'm stubborn.
When the House put a Relative in charge of the Contract RoadRats in Containment----I'm stubborn.
When the House tells us to wear a Magenta Hood so the Craft will know who the RP is---I wonder if its the guy with a meter watching and talking to the Craft----I'm stubborn
When the--------you get the drift------I'm stubborn

[mdkent11k]

I think a part played in the making the decision would also have to be the experience of the ELT in the Navy.  All to often commercial personnel try to lump all ELT's together. 

If an ELT spent time in an IMA they will, more than likely, have dealt with contamination and rad levels on par with a commercial plant (done a submarine resin discharge?).  However if it was a six and out ELT I doubt they ever took a hot swipe, unless they actually took time to survey the PSS...........

[alphadude]

well its a "good" stubborn-  known as the "questioning attitude"

[Chelios]

Insufficient data. I wouldn't hire any of them without more info. Some ELTs just served on operating reactors, while others served during overhauls. What was the college guys major? How old are these people and what else did they do? I must assume that thiw is for a jr. tech position, since none are qualified sr. tech.

[SloGlo]

wotta bunch a wussies postin on hear!  watt doya mean yinze ain't go enuff info to do  the hire?  fer cryin out loud, yer staffin an outage... yer basic short duration job, like <40days.  iffen yer staffing that, you need peeple that kin git the job done, period.  yinze need peeple dat know more'n won way to do a job, 'cause they gotta be fluid (wot usat be known as the artistic approach to hp) in the hp approach to the ongoing situation. so let's look at the applying peeple .
bs degree w/ 3 months experience.... that person knows one way, the book way (making the degree relevant assumption), 'n has just enuff hands on to get totally confuzed.
ex-navy elt w/ 3 months experience... that person knows one way, the nuke way, 'n has enuff hands on experience to figure out that they now know everything.
4 year deconner... that person nows more ways to get a job done than most peeple in the station supervisory positions.  this person noz watt goes wrong, what makes thing go right, and how to get correction done in midstream withot getting too many workers in the dung pile.  then again, this person is also familiar with the dung pile, and knows when it is warranted.
since yer not having me hire a supervisior, these are the reasons that my choices would be (for a generic position in a outage) ranked from first to last choice.....
4 yr deconner, ex-nav elt, 4 yr degree. 

[bodyburden]

I'd HIRE them all.
I'd PAY the ones that showed up.

[Roll Tide]

I'd HIRE them all.
I'd PAY the ones that showed up.

Were you the one that got me in the business? I wondered how that worked! 

[LMDeane]

"Hands-on experience," wins without exception (it's a tough world).  Education merely accelerates one's ascension into the world of collared-shirts & ties & all of that unnecessary stress.  Pay may be better, but at what cost?

As for me, I'll forever remain, an overeducated grunt working 6-7 months a year & just lovin' it!

[UncaBuffalo]

wotta bunch a wussies postin on hear!  watt doya mean yinze ain't go enuff info to do  the hire?  fer cryin out loud, yer staffin an outage... yer basic short duration job, like <40days. 

Amen, Bro Slo...for those of you who are worried that you might hire the wrong guy due to lack of information in the poll, think of it this way "I'm really just bringing the guy in for a LONG interview!"

(Sorry I haven't posted for so long...been stuck at a plant that didn't provide us with web access and the local library's computers wouldn't load NukeWorker)

[Surveyors_mato]

Viable, verifiable, proven experience first. Education is always a key. What do you think experience is if not education?
  If you want  the best pick up the phone call on these people first. Take proven experience befor formal education. Then use the education as your final criteria.

[Chimera]

Based on my own experiences over the years, and assuming the qualifications of the three individuals were verified to be accurate, I would hire the ex-deconner every time.  I am an ex-Navy nuc, also, but I vividly remember my first exposure to commercial nuclear power . . . an experience I've seen mirrored by many new ex-Navy nuc's  starting out in the commercial industry.  While I have my degree also, I'm aware that the degree just means I have a lot of theoretical knowledge with little to no practical experience.  I've been a road tech, a house tech, worked in both commercial and government programs, and I've trained techs along the way.  Based on over 30 years of experience, I would hire the (legitimate) ex-deconner every time.

But that's just my opinion . . .

[shehane]

experience equals education!

[UncaBuffalo]

experience equals education!

Yeah, Don, but does education equal experience?

[DainJer]

Not necessarily from the nuke side,
Education does not "equal" experience, but I think it does multiply experience.

If you take 2 guys with equal experience and one has a 4 yr degree, it shows 2 things, especially in this industry.

1. he successfully buckled himself down and passed classes, this takes dedication.
2. he most assuredly can handle any of the higher math, and analytical thinking quicker than a person without a degree, he's had 4 years of practice.

[JassenB]

Chimera:

.. While I have my degree also, I'm aware that the degree just means I have a lot of theoretical knowledge with little to no practical experience.  I've been a road tech, a house tech, worked in both commercial and government programs, and I've trained techs along the way.  Based on over 30 years of experience, I would hire the (legitimate) ex-deconner every time.

To me, for one, these are words of encouragement. I am also ex-Navy nuke, but I wasn't an ELT (I was an EM), and I have a BS and some graduate school, but I'm starting out in the commercial nuclear industry as a deconner. A lot of people don't understand why I even enjoy that sort of work, let alone why I would continue doing haz mat cleanup with a degree. All the degrees in the world don't count for crap, in my opinion, if somebody can't adequately and safely perform the tasks of the job itself, and that is obviously where experience comes in.