Polygraph?!

[Fermi2]

That is the best ELT line I have read in a while Mike!  Good stuff.  Your roots are showing.  LMAO.

JB

LOL That they are my friend


Mike

[drainbamage]

I haven't had one here, nor has anyone I've talked to mentioned anything of that nature.

To be honest, a lot of people probably wouldn't be here if they did, depending on the nature of the questions.

[jowlman]

He could have been confused because I seem to remember hearing, when I was in the DOE world, that when you go for a Q clearance interview you get a polygraph. Then again, those guys could have been jerking my chain.

[PWHoppe]

He could have been confused because I seem to remember hearing, when I was in the DOE world, that when you go for a Q clearance interview you get a polygraph. Then again, those guys could have been jerking my chain.

You will not necessarily get a polygraph for a "Q" clearence unless you are in the Human Reliabilty Program (HRP) which does require a polygraph.

[withroaj]

And, for the 'Eval'(s).  You will get tested daily, weekly, monthly and throughout your entire Nuke Schooling to determine your fitness for duty as a Nuke.  They will push your buttons to evaluate you during your stay.  You will be evaluated regularly.

I think you guys are talking about the old program. 

In 2005 in Charleston we had a student come to NPTU with a 2.48 GPA out of Power School (strange, the training pipeline standard is "two-five stay alive" and the fleet standard is 2..  Either standard you hold him to, this kid failed out of power school and there he was in prototype.  I feel bad for him because, even though I realize the Navy nuke community isn't the exclusive community it claims to be, he had no place in the pipeline.  He was one of those people with the muddy, glazed over look in the eyes that made you wonder if he was actually self-aware.  He didn't know how to put gas in his car, didn't know THAT he had to pay bills, let alone how to do it.  Slept on the floor in his closet with no furniture but 500 DVD's.  I believe he was a good person, though (RHRB - Right Horse Wrong Barn - I should add that to the nuke glossary thread).  He didn't get kicked out until about week 20 (Prototype is 24 weeks nowadays -- for you old timers). 

Strange thing is, he wasn't actually going to get kicked out.  They sent him to the Corrective Custody Unit in Jacksonville for being a dirt bag (which I don't actually believe he was), and when he got back they put him on a paint team while awaiting a class-up.  While on paint team he crossed one of the Rad Area lines under the turtleback over the RC with no TLD.  That actually got him sent away.  It's kind of a shame, though.  Once accepted into the program you can't be dumb, just CAN'T be.  That means that if you fail out of power school and can't get the grasp on a single concept in prototype or if it is just in question wether or not you are a sentient being, you just aren't trying hard enough.

Fortunately, though, the boats are still a true test of character and resolve   You've always got some lean, mean, nub-hatin' machine to act as the ship's Quality Control Petty Officer.  I just don't know that it's the boats' responsibility to determine who is cut out to be on them.  From what I understand when you old fellers went through, the pipeline was designed to filter out those that couldn't have been nukes.  I'd bet that while the schools had a higher attrition rate, the fleet had a lower attrition rate.  Seems like a decent way to save money on training.  You probably had a lot fewer dirt bags actually make it to ships as well. 

Ah, such is life.

[Preciousblue1965]

Withroaj:  You are right that the fleet will eventually weed out the REALLY REALLY dumb ones in some form or fashion(usually send them TAD to another department like MAA or laundry(surface stuff) for the entire time they are there).  Unfortunately that person still counts as a body on the manning list so you can't get a replacement for them.  That in turn puts a strain on the rest of the nukes to take up the slack.  Not to mention these days, very seldom is it just one nuke who doesn't have a clue per division. 

I would be interested to see the retention rates of nukes when the program was more of a filter than a pump.  Anyone have hard evidence on those numbers?

[withroaj]

I would be interested to see the retention rates of nukes when the program was more of a filter than a pump.  Anyone have hard evidence on those numbers?

No hard evidence, but our E-Div Chief (who's talking seriously about getting out at 18 years instead of retiring) said he spent a loooong time as a second class because, as he put it, "in the early 90's, motherf______'s just didn't get out."  (I think that was during a story about a 22-year first class standing AEA).  And this guy is awesome.  I can't imagine he was too much different back in the day, either.  Knows everything about everything and has a great, effective leadership style.

Not trying to toot my own horn here, but I KNOW the fleet weeds out the turds.  I just don't think that's the fleet's job.  Maybe I have the wrong perspective on the training pipeline, but I think that since we are sending people out to operate reactors on warships, the training pipeline should not just be another vocational school.  Especially since the average age of a Navy nuke is 21 years old and the average level of operational experience is two years.  With the horrible retention rates I can see why the program is a pump and not a filter, but I also think that the rapid crew turnover rate should also contribute to the desired quality of people to send out and relieve the watch.  It's scary enough to consider the nuke talent pool getting watered down year after year.  Then you consider that many people stop paying attention to "nubs" once they get to about 9 months from EAOS (give or take), meaning you get new kids training (dumber) new kids, and the concept is down right frightening.

I can't say enough that I try to love this program.  I have done and seen some very cool things here, and I consider it a true privelege to operate a plant, but damn.  Is this really the direction I want to keep going?

[Preciousblue1965]

I can tell you that it was one of the many reasons I got out.  I didn't want to have to go back to fleet and stand watch with some of "qualified" nukes we were forced to send out.  We had several nukes get told that the highest watch they would ever qualify was LRPT or Shaft Alley Patrol.  We even had an EM nuke get a SAP card(lowest Mechanic qual, usually non nuke undesignated FNs stand that watch) and told that he would never stand watch on anything electrical.  Had an RM mechanic almost take down the whole freaking 1 plant with a sponge when she tripped off a pump to a TG. 

I do remember hearing somewhere when I was at Proto that it was decreed that the recruiters are good enough to filter out who shouldn't be a nuke, and if they got into the program then they would good enough to pass the program.  IF they didn't it was the staff's fault for not teaching them correctly.  It was at this point that I decided once and for all I was done with NNPP and any training thereafter.

On a side note, I will say that in 3 years I had ONE(1) student who failed NPS, did horrible on all his tests in Proto, but by golly he was one helluva watchstander and a dang fine Mechanic to boot.  Out of all the sub-par student we got at Proto, he was the only one I felt derserved to make it.

[135i]

You won't get a polygraph.

Closest to that you might get is an interview with Special Agent so-and-so from the FBI. That's only if there are questions regarding your clearance.

For the Carter or NR-1 they might make you do a polygraph but other than that, no.


"I didn't want to have to go back to fleet and stand watch with some of "qualified" nukes we were forced to send out."

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to going to the fleet for just this reason. Luckily I'll be able to avoid the boats I know we've sent the worst ones to. On one hand you think "There's no way we can send this guy out to operate a nuclear reactor." On the other, you look at how bad manning is already and end up passing him on his watch. At prototype, unless we can make them go sad, it's damn near impossible to get them out of the program.