Potential OPS Job for a Newbie - Advice Needed

[robby]

This is my first post here, so go easy on me. I’ve been reading as much as I can on this board, but it’s like trying to get a drink from a fire hose.

My background: I'm an ex-Navy nuke (EOOW-qualified) with a B.S. and an M.S. in engineering, and a licensed professional engineer (not in nuclear engineering, though). I'm currently working as an engineer for a civil/environmental consulting firm.

I’ve been getting sick of the consulting business, so I passed a resume along to a friend who works in Operations at a plant here in the northeast. I've now got an interview set up for a potential job in OPS.

I'm told (via my friend) that the plant is potentially looking to hire me for an STA position that could ultimately lead to a licensed operator position. I'm told that I'd work in OPS for a few months until the next class starts, which then takes a year or so. I'd then be back in OPS.

I’d very much appreciate any insight as to what to expect in this process. This would obviously be a career change for me. I'm wondering if I'm facing a pay cut while going through the training process. (I currently make ~$70K/year). What do plants typically pay people in the training pipeline? What do non-licensed STAs get paid? (For that matter, is this a good career path in the nuclear industry?)

My other options are to stay in consulting (which I hate) or to take a pending offer with a public water/sewer utility. The offer at the water/sewer utility is attractive, as far as pay and schedule is concerned (~$75K salary, 8-5 schedule, no overtime, no weekends), but the work sounds fairly mundane.

The nuclear work sounds really interesting, and the potential pay sounds excellent, but I've gathered that the OPS schedule can be grueling. My friend tells me they do 12-hour rotating shifts. I liked being a Navy nuke, except for the schedule. I never really considered the civilian nuclear industry before, because I thought the field was in decline. This seems to be changing, though.

I’ve read on these forums that people recommend working OPS at least for a couple of years, then look into other options if desired. I’m sure I don’t want to be on rotating shifts the rest of my life, so one thought I had was looking into an instructor position down the line. (Do operator instructors get paid well?) My last assignment in the Navy was teaching at a Navy school, which I liked a lot and was very good at.

Finally, do you all like the nuclear industry? Are you happy with your career choice? What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any assistance, and I’ll keep on reading the boards, too.

[Fermione]

Someone is going to pipe in here real quick and suggest you use the search function on this site because these questiions have been asked before so I won't.  Take the other utility job unless you enjoy shift work, being told on a minutes notice that you will be working the weekend due to plant problems, etc.  Good pay and benefits but the work hours  can be eratic and long.
Best of luck,
Fermione

[Fermi2]

I'd think a hard charging ex EOOW would have the get up and go to use the search function.

Mike

[PWHoppe]

I'd think a hard charging ex EOOW would have the get up and go to use the search function.

Mike

Ahhh Mike, can always count on you

[Fermi2]

Oh I am a creature of habit, and a huge believer in self reliance!

Mike

[Rennhack]

Answer the guys question, or leave him alone.  He said "I’ve been reading as much as I can on this board".

Pat, shame on you for encourage the behavior.

"Use the search function" is a useless answer, and a waste of space and bandwith.  If you don't want to answer the question, then don't.  If he can't get you to answer, and he can't use the search function, then he is out of luck.  How about making a "Read this first/FAQ" that has all the answers you keep telling people to search for?

[robby]

As I stated up front, I've been reading the boards, and I've used the search function, repeatedly. Many of my questions were answered.

I'm not asking you to explain what SRO/RO/NLO stands for, or if an SRO is the same thing as an EOOW. (I'm well aware that there is no comparison.)

I don't think that I'm the savior of the civilian nuclear industry, and I realize that all of my prior experience was on a test source.   I see that I evidently touched a nerve even mentioning my Navy quals, but my intention was simply to outline my background. 

In any event, even after searching and reading, I still don't know the answers to the questions I posted. Not to mention that some of those threads go back a few years, and things change with time.

I guess I'm just trying to determine if this is a career path to even consider. I see the potential pros (excellent pay, interesting work), but if the potential cons (rotating shifts, mandatory overtime, and stress) make the typical OPS worker miserable, I'd like to know this upfront.

Even if you don't care to address any of my factual questions, I'd still very much appreciate any thoughts on the subjective ones at the end of my post.

Thanks again.

[shayne]

It all depends on what you want to do.  If shiftwork and overtime is something that you want (More $$$) and you enjoy the nuclear work, go for it.  Other options are available within the nuclear industry once you are in also as you have mentioned.  So movement throughout the facility or company is possible.  If it really isn't something you want, try the other utility job. I would also look for your family (Wife/parents/etc.) to see how they feel...

I personally went from doing new construction startup/commissioning on combined cycle power plants (Lots of money, hours, and time away from family) to the nuclear industry.  After a few years I still wasn't happy, so now I'm doing design and project management for utility and really enjoy it.  However, I do miss the overtime $$$, but having the flexibility and working 4-10 (Monday-Thurs) makes up for it.

[retired nuke]

You have a degree, a PE (I assume in Civil?) and you are looking in OPS?

Try design engineering at a utility that has not done fuel storage yet, or license extension. Most times D/E staff work days. Salaries are high (esp for PE) as many that are "engineers" don't have the paper, just a buttload of field experience.

If you have a family, rotating shift is a pain in the butt. It's also a pain if you have a non-nuclear social life.

With the current review of the nation's failing infrastructure, you should have plenty of challenges available that don't involve shift work. Of course, that would mean contiuing with the consulting.

While I'd love to see someone with your credentials in our industry, take a good look at everything - enjoy your interview, ask good questions, but you may be reaching too low.

[B.PRESGROVE]

Hey Robby,

I dont know about you, but I would get into the engineering side of the nuke buisness and run.  I know down here at most of the southern plants (mainly Votgle) you could get a job fast.  So fast Im sure your head will spin.  My dad is a linsenced PE, mechanical, and spent his life in the commercial field and loved it.

Dont get into ops unless you want to become an SRO and work shift work for a long time.

[JustinHEMI05]

This is my first post here, so go easy on me. I’ve been reading as much as I can on this board, but it’s like trying to get a drink from a fire hose.

My background: I'm an ex-Navy nuke (EOOW-qualified) with a B.S. and an M.S. in engineering, and a licensed professional engineer (not in nuclear engineering, though). I'm currently working as an engineer for a civil/environmental consulting firm.

I’ve been getting sick of the consulting business, so I passed a resume along to a friend who works in Operations at a plant here in the northeast. I've now got an interview set up for a potential job in OPS.

I'm told (via my friend) that the plant is potentially looking to hire me for an STA position that could ultimately lead to a licensed operator position. I'm told that I'd work in OPS for a few months until the next class starts, which then takes a year or so. I'd then be back in OPS.

I’d very much appreciate any insight as to what to expect in this process. This would obviously be a career change for me. I'm wondering if I'm facing a pay cut while going through the training process. (I currently make ~$70K/year). What do plants typically pay people in the training pipeline? What do non-licensed STAs get paid? (For that matter, is this a good career path in the nuclear industry?)

My other options are to stay in consulting (which I hate) or to take a pending offer with a public water/sewer utility. The offer at the water/sewer utility is attractive, as far as pay and schedule is concerned (~$75K salary, 8-5 schedule, no overtime, no weekends), but the work sounds fairly mundane.

The nuclear work sounds really interesting, and the potential pay sounds excellent, but I've gathered that the OPS schedule can be grueling. My friend tells me they do 12-hour rotating shifts. I liked being a Navy nuke, except for the schedule. I never really considered the civilian nuclear industry before, because I thought the field was in decline. This seems to be changing, though.

I’ve read on these forums that people recommend working OPS at least for a couple of years, then look into other options if desired. I’m sure I don’t want to be on rotating shifts the rest of my life, so one thought I had was looking into an instructor position down the line. (Do operator instructors get paid well?) My last assignment in the Navy was teaching at a Navy school, which I liked a lot and was very good at.

Finally, do you all like the nuclear industry? Are you happy with your career choice? What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any assistance, and I’ll keep on reading the boards, too.

Robby my friend, the sky is the limit for you. All you need to do is figure out what YOU want to do in this industry, and go for it. Be it ops or engineering, there are great opportunities for someone with your qualifications. It really is up to you like the other said though... all depending on the kind of life you want to lead. In any case, you will WAY better off than you are now.

As you have stated, for jobs like operations instructor, it is best if you operated the plant first. You will make less money as an instructor, but your life will be easier too.

To answer your closing questions; I love my job, I am now happy with my career choice, and if I were you, I would go ops.

Good luck!

Justin

[jjordan]

robby,
Progress Energy have lots of Engineering and Operator jobs currently posted. The plants are Shearon Harris near Raleigh NC, Brunswick at Southport NC, H.B. Robinson in Hartsville SC, and Crystal River 3 in Crystal River FL. Pretty  good areas to live and work in. Here is their employment link.

http://www.progress-energy.com/aboutus/employment/postings/jobs.asp

JJ

[robby]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I got the offer from the water/sewer utility, and have decided to take it. If it doesn't work out, or I don't like it, I may reconsider the nuclear industry down the line.

[B.PRESGROVE]

AAHHH, thats a load of "Crap" .  Good luck though on your job.

[Don Obiyae]

I have questions about salary etiquette. The first job I was offered out of the Navy was little better pay than military, but I discovered soon after that I could have obtained more based on the set range and my quals. I was just too scared to ask. Now I'm in the market again.

What about ops or training jobs like Instructors, SRO, and Instant SRO? When someone is given an offer at  "x" salary, is it normal to negotiate/counter offer in the "nuke" world, or is it taboo?

I don't want to sound greedy or petty. I am just not sure if pay rates are locked in or flexible. If the former, I can deal with it because the pay (short and long term) is great. But if it's the latter, I see know reason why one shouldn't try to get the most they can for the job they can do. Thanks for any help on this matter.

[rlbinc]

I have questions about salary etiquette. The first job I was offered out of the Navy was little better pay than military, but I discovered soon after that I could have obtained more based on the set range and my quals. I was just too scared to ask. Now I'm in the market again.

What about ops or training jobs like Instructors, SRO, and Instant SRO? When someone is given an offer at  "x" salary, is it normal to negotiate/counter offer in the "nuke" world, or is it taboo?

I don't want to sound greedy or petty. I am just not sure if pay rates are locked in or flexible. If the former, I can deal with it because the pay (short and long term) is great. But if it's the latter, I see know reason why one shouldn't try to get the most they can for the job they can do. Thanks for any help on this matter.

It is normal, expected, and smart to counter offer a salary. If they don't say NO once, you went too cheap. They're in dire need and negotiation does not close any doors. AFTER the salary is settled, include relocation benefits and signing bonus. Don't be afraid to back out and say "call me if anything changes". The point is - the HR person you're talking to is a seat cover, not a decision maker.

[Fermi2]

In short, not really, unless you've already obtained an SRO License. It doesn't hurt to try but hobestly there's dozes of you AAers trying to break into the majors.

Mike

[Don Obiyae]

To Mike, or anyone else with experience on this:

Has anyone ever been passed over specifically because they tried to negotiate "up" the salary?

Since you're dealing with HR, does it affect potential working relationships with superiors/peers?

My thought, like rlbinc's, is that it is expected and advantageous to do so. Then again, because I worked gov't before, I wonder if a company like TVA even allows negotiating or if each job has a set specific salary. Or is TVA pay just like everywhere else? I don't have any experience in this arena. I went from Navy nuke to manufacturing.

[redline]

It is normal, expected, and smart to counter offer a salary. If they don't say NO once, you went too cheap. They're in dire need and negotiation does not close any doors. AFTER the salary is settled, include relocation benefits and signing bonus. Don't be afraid to back out and say "call me if anything changes". The point is - the HR person you're talking to is a seat cover, not a decision maker.

That may be some places, but in this world where each job has ten candidates most likely equally qualified, you may get your feelings hurt. The reason that seat cover is there is to take away any leverage you may think you have. I'm certain that if you receive an offer from my HR department and try to counter you'll get a take it of leave it response. That HR rep doesn't care who you are, only whether you want the job or not, if not other candidates have already been approved for offers.

[rlbinc]

I am a contractor now, but I've been in this industry since the 70's and here's what I have seen.

There are plants that do not negotiate and those plants are chronically understaffed . These same plants have declining or cyclic performance to the point of facing adverse Regulatory conditions or INPO Accreditation Probation.

If you counter offer and they balk... it should mean something to you. You don't want to work there anyway. They did you a favor by tilting their hand at the poker table. Walk away, wipe your feet to make sure you didn't get any on you and try another company.

I know them all, and I work with them all - and I won't mention any companies or sites.

Recently the Fatigue Rule was published - and I can tell you that certain management organizations are in damage control / crisis management role. Some have contingency plans in place to maintain a unit in Cold Shutdown at a multi-unit site. Ouch.

For a fact, there are several hundreds of people who work +1000 hours a year of overtime.
If we did a survey on this website, you would have an eye opener. Back when I was a Licensed Operator at a Midwest BWR of certain renown, I worked substantially greater than that - involuntarily.  (Hence the contractor career move.) My last year on shift*, I made 108k at $29 an hour base - and quit in October. Do the math. You know what the base was - the rest was OT.

Needless to say, new hires have not kept up with attrition, or the ten year evolution of the Fatigue Rule* would have never seen the light of day.

So let me align your ducks for a moment.

This industry is seriously understaffed. These companies are stealing each others talent with competitive offers to the point that the words "golden handcuffs" are becoming standard terminology and practice.

Make your own offer, my man.

The job seeker has never seen a more powerful bargaining position than this present day.
Step up, swing for the fence - and you might get a surprise. The worst you can get is NO job, and you had that before the interview.

* Fatigue Rule - although I didn't have anything to do with it - began being considered in 1997, and took until the present day to become reality.
 

[hamsamich]

where do people get their info I wonder?  This site and peoples black and white all knowing viewpoints kill me.  I know of plenty of people who have counter offered and been successful.  this industry is screaming for semi-qualified people to take house jobs.  I was contacted 3 times by a company's HR dept. with "are you sure you don't want this house job?"  I know of at least 2 nuclear companies who are taking shots in ops with ex-navy nukes as SROs who will probably fail their first lic. class because there is no one else to fill the slot.  if you meet the minimum req.  there is no reason to take the first offer unless you are 100% sure that is where you want to work.

[Bleyse]

Well, with TVA, instant SRO's might be able to negotiate a salary.  I don't really know how it goes with them, but I can say with certainty that if you are being offered a NLO position, it will be a take it or leave it.  All of the NLO's and RO's at TVA nuke plants make the same rate.  It is negotiated by the union.

[hamsamich]

I don't think many union jobs have a negotiable starting payrate, but if the union isn't involved you can probably barter for more $$$, vacation, or bonus. 

[JustinHEMI05]

where do people get their info I wonder?  This site and peoples black and white all knowing viewpoints kill me.  I know of plenty of people who have counter offered and been successful.  this industry is screaming for semi-qualified people to take house jobs.  I was contacted 3 times by a company's HR dept. with "are you sure you don't want this house job?"  I know of at least 2 nuclear companies who are taking shots in ops with ex-navy nukes as SROs who will probably fail their first lic. class because there is no one else to fill the slot.  if you meet the minimum req.  there is no reason to take the first offer unless you are 100% sure that is where you want to work.

He who lives in a glass house...

Justin

[PapaBear765]

I don't think many union jobs have a negotiable starting payrate, but if the union isn't involved you can probably barter for more $$$, vacation, or bonus. 

So what would be a reasonable counter offer by the interviewee for sign-on bonus, vacation, etc.?  If they offer $2000 for a sign-on, what do you come back with?  Assume the interviewee is the average ex-navy nuke with 6 or 8 years in, nothing special.

[hamsamich]

Now that I've done those jobs I know how much I would need to do them, but it may be different for you.  That's the point.  There are only 5 "normal" positions that I can think of:

You really want the job for whatever reason (money/training/foot in door etc..) and will take a relatively low or average wage.
You know how much the job is worth due to years of experience and intimate knowledge of the specific company so you ask for more.
You need X amount of dollars/vaca/quality of life to do the job because you have other options worth x amount also (take best option).
You don't really need the job but just want to do something, so you are willing to risk asking for more because you don't care that much.
You wouldn't do the job for any amount of money, or it would take a stupid amount of $ to get you to do it.

For instance, I don't like rotating shiftwork, so I would need a stupid amount of money to do that again for any length of time.

If you really want this job, then take the offer unless it is insulting.  If you ask for another 3 grand for your bonus, would it be worth you not getting the job?  If you don't care too much, then ask.  Depends on your position.  I think 5000$ bonus sounds reasonable but I don't know how bad they want you, if they will do that sort of thing (risk causing hate and discontent), if you interviewed well, if they really need people, so on and so on.  It's a crap shoot man, that's why you only play these games if you have other options, know what you are doing, or don't care too much.

[JustinHEMI05]

So what would be a reasonable counter offer by the interviewee for sign-on bonus, vacation, etc.?  If they offer $2000 for a sign-on, what do you come back with?  Assume the interviewee is the average ex-navy nuke with 6 or 8 years in, nothing special.

I think you are going to find that in general, offers for new people out of the Navy are going to be non-negotiable. Sure you could put in a counter offer, that is always your right, but they have the right to pass to the next guy getting out. I do know that for NLOs, for example, at my plant they all get the same no matter what. There is no negotiation by anyone. Pretty much the same holds true for instant SROs... they have one standard offer, take it or leave. Each utility is different, sure, but in general, they will probably treat all entry level people the same. I don't know that for sure though as I am only basing it on what I have seen thus far.

Justin

[ricofern]

the license is worth the hard work, once you have it, you have a job for life, stay on shift for a few cycles then transfer to another position, if they let you, a license bonus is usually worth 12k-15k/year, once your off license you will lose that, some trainers keep their license so they can work during outages, get your personal life in order before starting class as its a big monkey on your back until you finish, good luck