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allforthenukie

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PCM 1b daily source checks?
« on: Jan 25, 2008, 05:44 »
When performing the daily source checks of the PCM 1b personel monitors, how many detectors are normally checked per day?
At my place of employment our practice had been to test two or three detectors each night of the week. For example Monday night det 1 and 2, Tuesday night det 3 and 4, etc. Thus all the detectors get checked each week and they always pass.
Now it comes from on high that we must source every detector on each monitor every night.
Since we use one source and check one detector at a time this is going to take a lot longer each night.
I've seen one way of doing this with several sources spaced out on a velcro tape so you could source several detectors at once.
How do you source check your PCM 1bs?

Offline DJ@BHIenegry

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 25, 2008, 06:39 »
We have a magnetic jig. Its about 3/4 of inch away from the detector. All detectors everyday plus check gas flow on bottle and machine.
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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 25, 2008, 09:11 »
We have a magnetic jig for performing the checks too.  We do all detectors one day of the week and the head, upper arm, and foot the other six days.  Theory is that if your getting flow to the end of the three banks then the rest "should" be good.  Bottle check once a week.

Last plant, gas flow and bottle pressure daily, 3-4 detectors checked a day,  that way they were hit at least twice a week, and any instrument used to release material or bodies from the RCA were checked daily.
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Offline RRhoads

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 26, 2008, 11:39 »
When performing the daily source checks of the PCM 1b personel monitors, how many detectors are normally checked per day?
At my place of employment our practice had been to test two or three detectors each night of the week. For example Monday night det 1 and 2, Tuesday night det 3 and 4, etc. Thus all the detectors get checked each week and they always pass.
Now it comes from on high that we must source every detector on each monitor every night.
Since we use one source and check one detector at a time this is going to take a lot longer each night.
I've seen one way of doing this with several sources spaced out on a velcro tape so you could source several detectors at once.
How do you source check your PCM 1bs?

Well...we use IPM's :-[. Who else still uses those things???
anyway..they are checked about the same..we perform the check on the head,hands & feet every nite but we only check 1 body array per nite. We have an aluminum jig( big & long & a joy to carry thru the plant at nite) that has  3or 4 sources attached to it to hit whatever column you are checking that nite.
There was word a couple of months ago that our new rad support sup is looking into the same as you said...checking every detector every nite. :(. Must be some new rule or new interpretation of an old  rule.

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 26, 2008, 01:01 »
Well...we use IPM's :-[. Who else still uses those things???
anyway..they are checked about the same..we perform the check on the head,hands & feet every nite but we only check 1 body array per nite. We have an aluminum jig( big & long & a joy to carry thru the plant at nite) that has  3or 4 sources attached to it to hit whatever column you are checking that nite.
There was word a couple of months ago that our new rad support sup is looking into the same as you said...checking every detector every nite. :(. Must be some new rule or new interpretation of an old  rule.
We use them because we can't afford to buy new stuff. Has something to do with share holder value and bonuses. But I'm might be incorrect in that assumption.
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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 26, 2008, 02:57 »
When performing the daily source checks of the PCM 1b personel monitors, how many detectors are normally checked per day?
At my place of employment our practice had been to test two or three detectors each night of the week. For example Monday night det 1 and 2, Tuesday night det 3 and 4, etc. Thus all the detectors get checked each week and they always pass.
Now it comes from on high that we must source every detector on each monitor every night.
Since we use one source and check one detector at a time this is going to take a lot longer each night.
I've seen one way of doing this with several sources spaced out on a velcro tape so you could source several detectors at once.
How do you source check your PCM 1bs?

I still remember the days when I had to source check PCM1B's every afternoon shift.  One source held by magnets, one detector at a time, had to log each reading manually.  Did three PCM's in about 15 minutes.  What's the big deal?  Once you get a rhythm going, it ain't nuthin'.  It is as clear as day to me.  The PM shift (one tech to cover HP and chemistry all alone) source checked every meter (on every range), counter, scaler, frisker, tennelec, laundry monitor, portal monitor, and alarming dosimeter (those huge boxy ones) on every level of every building every day.  It was a killer - by the time you got done checking all of them and plotting the results on the 2-sigma graphs there was barely 4.5 to 5 hours left in the 8 hour shift for barbecues with the operators, doing release samples, playing minesweeper, doing my homework, writing procedures, cleaning out the drawers in the hot lab, chasing the mice out of the RCA, scrubbing the refrigerator, scrubbing the microwave, scouring the coffee pots, disinfecting the whole body counter, deleting useless email, doing half of the midnight shift guy's work to make him angry, ....  barely had time to pee.
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allforthenukie

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 26, 2008, 03:48 »
Well, I guess it really isn't as big of a pain as I thought. I did 4 PCM 1bs and a 30some detector PCM2 in less than a half hour, one detector at a time.
So there's still plenty of time to take care of the other backshift duties mentioned.
And besides, I get paid by the hour. So what the heck do I care how long it takes to source the PCMs?
The reason given for checking each detector every day is a INPO guideline.

INPO RP Guidelines 05-008
3.(5)d. Instrumentation
 
Calibrate contamination survey equipment prior to initial use, at least semiannually (unless formally evaluated for a different periodicity), following repairs, and whenever malfunction is known or suspected.  At least each day an instrument (such as a whole-body contamination monitor, hand-held frisker, and gamma tool monitor) is in use to monitor personnel or equipment contamination, perform a functional check using a radioactive source.  If more than one detector or alarm circuit may be used, then functionally check each detector or alarm circuit.  The radioactive source used to check the alarm setpoints should have energy levels consistent with the station radionuclide mix, and the strength of the source should provide confidence that the monitors will alarm at a level of 5,000 dpm/100 cm2 (beta and gamma).

Offline thenukeman

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 26, 2008, 03:48 »
You could get a stronger source and calculate how many seconds it would take per detector.  This is very helpful if you have 40 second count times for alpha. 4 second counts can get about 8 detectors since you are moving them .  You are just making sure they work and are not calibrating, therefore this is legitimate.  Its up to your people to buy off on this.  I worked at a DOE site and they had about 16 PCM2's with I believe 30 detectors each, How long would that take you per day  with a source close to the limit.  Also your false negatives, then have to recount.  I bet the source you use is not even exactly the limit but slightly over.  Some people may scream BS count each one with a source close  to the limit. but I say thats a waste of time.  4000 dpm is 4000 dpm it does not matter in how many seconds.  If I am wrong then let me know, I did not print the DOE site to protect the innocent or Guilty>> LOL

Edit, I forgot since in this case you are checking beta gamma, and Alpha, Have a hot source in each hand one Alpha and one Beta Gamma and do about 8 per count if you can justify it.  In this case 400 dpm Alpha, 4000 dpm Beta Gamma. The real dumb way would be to do one beta Gamma per count then do one Alpha per count or 40 seconds X 60 detectors or 40 minutes per pcm 2 if you did 8 per count and held a high count source in each hand you then can do it in 4 minutes or 10 times faster.
« Last Edit: Jan 26, 2008, 06:27 by thenukeman »

Offline Rennhack

Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 26, 2008, 08:50 »
I still remember the days when I had to source check PCM1B's every afternoon shift.  One source held by magnets, one detector at a time, had to log each reading manually.  Did three PCM's in about 15 minutes.  What's the big deal?  Once you get a rhythm going, it ain't nuthin'.  It is as clear as day to me.  The PM shift (one tech to cover HP and chemistry all alone) source checked every meter (on every range), counter, scaler, frisker, tennelec, laundry monitor, portal monitor, and alarming dosimeter (those huge boxy ones) on every level of every building every day.  It was a killer - by the time you got done checking all of them and plotting the results on the 2-sigma graphs there was barely 4.5 to 5 hours left in the 8 hour shift for barbecues with the operators, doing release samples, playing minesweeper, doing my homework, writing procedures, cleaning out the drawers in the hot lab, chasing the mice out of the RCA, scrubbing the refrigerator, scrubbing the microwave, scouring the coffee pots, disinfecting the whole body counter, deleting useless email, doing half of the midnight shift guy's work to make him angry, ....  barely had time to pee.

I'm endangering my spot as #1 karma guy, but I had to give you karma for that one.  Great post.
« Last Edit: Jan 26, 2008, 08:52 by Rennhack »

Offline RRhoads

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 26, 2008, 10:16 »
I still remember the days when I had to source check PCM1B's every afternoon shift.  One source held by magnets, one detector at a time, had to log each reading manually.  Did three PCM's in about 15 minutes.  What's the big deal?  Once you get a rhythm going, it ain't nuthin'.  It is as clear as day to me.  The PM shift (one tech to cover HP and chemistry all alone) source checked every meter (on every range), counter, scaler, frisker, tennelec, laundry monitor, portal monitor, and alarming dosimeter (those huge boxy ones) on every level of every building every day.  It was a killer - by the time you got done checking all of them and plotting the results on the 2-sigma graphs there was barely 4.5 to 5 hours left in the 8 hour shift for barbecues with the operators, doing release samples, playing minesweeper, doing my homework, writing procedures, cleaning out the drawers in the hot lab, chasing the mice out of the RCA, scrubbing the refrigerator, scrubbing the microwave, scouring the coffee pots, disinfecting the whole body counter, deleting useless email, doing half of the midnight shift guy's work to make him angry, ....  barely had time to pee.

I'm endangering my spot as #1 karma guy, but I had to give you karma for that one.  Great post.
Actually..you're both off topic! ;)

Offline retired nuke

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 27, 2008, 09:17 »
We have a magnetic jig. Its about 3/4 of inch away from the detector. All detectors everyday plus check gas flow on bottle and machine.
Same here - we have 4 sources on individual mounts - takes 4 counts to get everything
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justatech

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Re: PCM 1b daily source checks?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 28, 2008, 01:07 »
I'm with BeerCourt on this one. Once you get the system down it is a breeze. We source check every instrument - every day - and Yes we check one detector at a time, gas flow etc.

Afternoon shift has the turbine, count room, guard shack instruments. Midnight shift has the Aux and portable instruments. In an 8 hour shift I can get everything done in 4 without racing.
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2008, 01:08 by justatech »

 


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