Radiation Safety Worker Pipeline

[shovelheadred]

,,,What a waste of your typing time...Eric...Every tech that has been in this business long enough to get a per diem check, knows, how Bartlett has manipulated the technicians,,and this is one reason a majority of the technicians went to DOE when they did,,with the exception of the Drug test failure people..when I started in DOE, DOD, EPA..Bartlett had no interest in them..we didn't work for you...we worked for Sigma Science,,Thermo-Nutech,,and later Duratek,,,I myself worked for you one time..and I thank AL Eidson for that, not Bartlett... of all of these listed benefits you are offering how many techs are actually benefitting from them..and the Duke thing..the Core,,Duratek or GTS or HPTS started this, you inherited it, it was in place...I never was a deconner, I came out of the canoe club a 3.1..was a house tech,,then hit the road..did ALARA..whatever,,,but when I made the change to Master-Lee, and later Areva, I knew I would not be back to the RP world..the main reason..Money, the reason we all are called roadtechs...RP's don't realize the money that's made out there...and the bid for an MCO would blow their minds...yea, I work for Troy and he is right, this organization we are associated with, is a family,,taking care of each other...the benefits you listed..we have all that, so what, and when something goes wrong at a site, we have backup,,experienced degreed, CSP type personell with years of safety experience (not only in Nuclear, but Dupont, refinery's, gas turbines )  that can answer the questions, give experienced advice, not just fill out the paperwork .I have worked sites with your EH&S people, they are RP's with a rewritten resume, not one of them had the OSHA 30 Hour  ( or an idea what it was) much less the OHST.are you trying to sell us?..or yourself...this is just my opinion..you have yours, I have mine..and yours is not always right because your name is Bartlett

[alphadude]

Eric its is unfortunate that past practice does haunt Bartlett, and that may just be the issue-past practice.  I never worked for Bartlett, but have in the past had some issues with them as far as "super techs", promotion of relatives of super techs and Bartlett personnel put in position of management without ever having one day of management training.  However in the past few years things seem to have changed-old staff motivated out, changes in how people are treated, the employment of staff that can really manage and supervise without uttering the statement "you will never work in this industry again!" and so on... i actually consider employment with Bartlett now and will do so again in the future.  As a manager I have to deal with all clients in a legal, ethical manner and I am sure that Big Blue does to and I would have not problems contracting with them.

(even though i was on the list from 1979 to 1982 thanks to JE) note i never worked for them and i made the list - one of the inexperienced staff spilled her guts on the phone to one of my co workers)

[alphadude]

dang red how do you really feel.. well put

[Eric_Bartlett]

Wow, tough crowd, but then again its what I expected.  Can't please all the people all the time...

[Camella Black]

Eric, don't sweat it. I really don't understand why anyone has a problem with the "pipeline".

You see its structure in our world everyday in various forms. From rising in the ranks of the military to going from journeyman -apprentice-craftsman and in the medical field : resident-intern-doctor.

As long as you have the time in, knowledge and can pass the tests I have no problem with you going from deconner to senior or if you walked in off the street as someones girlfriend, son, brother etc; of course I may be bias on this as EVERY member of my family except my father did the same thing and to be honest I KNOW my husband and brothers made great techs.

In regards to those that say that some get special treatment, grow up and get real this has been going on in your life since birth and those of us that have siblings realize this. I was judged by my sisters failures and therefore a tight rope was often attached to me and yet my brother who was 3 years younger had a free ride; and as a parent I can tell you that I often had to apologize to my children as I did treat them different because they were different.

Know I'd like to know more about the scholarships and programs could you start a thread on all that Bartlett is doing?

[Already Gone]

Eric,
You are, as you say, the surviving member of a dying race.  The contract houses of the past have all fallen by the wayside, leaving Bartlett as the "last man standing".  As such, you must bear the weight of all that they have done.

No, Bartlett checks have never bounced.

No, Bartlett Site Coordinators have never taken off with the proceeds of cashing the techs' paychecks.

No, Bartlett has never flouted IRS regulations, or DOL regulations regarding the relationship of employer to employee. That is, you have never tried to pass off your employees as "independent contractors" to avoid paying your share of the FICA tax.  You have never tried to reclassify hourly employees as salaried in order to defer or refuse the payment of overtime.

But, Bartlett - like all the others - has dangled that carrot in front of deconners, fire watches, FME monitors, ...etc. that someday they will be Senior Health Physics / Rad. Protection Techs.  You have all done it, you are doing it still, it stinks.

Eric, you have never tried to work next to some of these people.  As I always say, some of them are the very best, but frankly most of them should not be techs.  You try carrying 4 to six other people because they have no fundamental understanding of Radiation Protection - but enough time to be ANSI 3.1.  You'll feel as I do.  You continue to staff jobs with 40 to 50 techs, when 15 of them are doing all the heavy lifting at the same rate of pay as the other 25.

Poaching employees from your competitors is a time-honored practice.  Nothing wrong with trying to attract them.  Where do you think most of my people used to work?  But, the fact that NMC was okay with it is totally irrelevant.  Those people are not NMC employees.  Why should they care?  Did Day-Zimmerman Atlantic give the nod too?  Didn't think so?

Putting a prom dress on a pig doesn't make her your dream date.  It is still a pig.  Parking your butt outside the gate is still a classless act.  And if you want to continue to believe that Bartlett has never discriminated against a tech for working for a competitor, I have three words for you, "DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION"  Yeah, it came from Animal House, but ask any RP tech what it means, and the first word out of their mouths is "Bartlett".

True, a lot of this is baggage from the past that you would love to leave behind you, and maybe you are really trying.  It's not like you really need to.  You could just keep things the way that they are, and still be the industry leader.  So, maybe there is a little hope to be found in the fact that you are talking differently from the way it was before.  If you say you really mean it, I have no reason to doubt your word.  But it is not your words that will be the proof, right?  Let's see what you do.  My opinion is that this is all just a new package for the same old crap.  Let's see you change my mind.

I have seen some of your EHS people in action.  No, you are NOT in the same business as I am.  Not yet.  Maybe some of them will become more proficient in speaking English and get better, but I'm not losing any sleep over having to compete with Bartlett in the Safety field.

[Already Gone]

This is just another Bartlett slogan that makes it appear that they are the group behind the industry movement to replace the aging workforce. It's been in place since 2000 at most nuclear plants. They are saying that they have alliances with an educational institution by making a phone call and then following it up with an email. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Bartlett only cares about how much money they make the investment group. Hello !! They use the technicians like a commodity. They've underbid all the other companies and put them out of business. Bartlett has had 29 years to raise the wage and benefits. Where's it at? Now all of a sudden Bartlett cares about it's employees. Throw out the flag.

Bartlett has manipulated the ANSI white paper they wrote in the late 80s to their financial benefit by creating an artificial shortage of technicians. RP Techs have left the outage rotation due to an inadequate wage. That opened the door for Bartlett to import cheap labor. Everyone knows that they pay these technicians from Mexico less than their American counterparts. The Mexican techs are coached not to reveal their paychecks to anyone. Bartlett cares more about getting work visas for foreign labor than it does on a so-called pipeline for Americans.

Bartlett only implemented the 401K in the early 90s because the technicians went on a recognitional strike. Nationwide the strike didn't have much effect but it did create the holy grail of pay for technicians at Diablo Canyon. How many of the 'old regulars' at Diablo still have the double secret probation letters that Bruce sent out? Nothing has changed. Now they just tell you an outage is staffed. When you call and talk to the RPM, you find out differently. We need legal representation.

How low of a wage are we going to continue to accept. They have only bumped the pay this spring to staff outages. It'll go back down this fall or they will cap the travel, lower the per diem, etc.. Nothing has changed.

I admit right out in the open that I am working for a Bartlett competitor.  Throw out the flag?  Here's mine.  Who are you representing here?  Your company, the "NPUA", or (most likely) both?

We can drag up everything that we believe that Bartlett has ever done wrong, but this thread is about the "pipeline".  It is about having to work along side of techs who make the same money as you without regard to the fact that their only qualification to be there is that they drew their breaths inside the fence of a nuke plant for 3 years or so.  It's about the fact that Bartlett is promising carreer development for technicians who are moving up the pipeline, but doing nothing about the total lack of development for the techs who are already at the top.  It is about the fact that this would all be unnecessary if Bartlett - and ALL the competitors who do or did exist - would have recognized the difference between a qualified technician and one who just had the time in.

Those of us who have left would never have left if the companies hadn't diluted our profession with whatever came flowing out of that pipeline.  Now, the pipeline is all they have left.

[Tech A]

Hello Everyone,  nice posts bdavidson and Beercourt nice to see we have people speak their minds and the truth.   Why would Bartlett recruit right outside and Atlantic contracted plant?  I'm sure the techs already have heard about Bartlett and I'm sure at least 90 percent has worked for Bartlett before.  I wonder what the percentage of traveling, non supervision , Bartlett techs think they are treated fairly?  Have they ever done a poll? How many Bartlett techs  think that since Bartlett has grown so big it has gotten better?  Does Bartlett really care who they staffed the plants with? They always say the most qualified, but the techs all make the same amount of money no matter what the quals are. Next time Bartlett sends a representative to a plant instead of him telling how big Bartlett is getting do to the techs hard work, it would be nice to ask the techs what would make them happy and actually follow through.  I really do think its great that Eric comes out and speaks in the forum, but instead of pleasing all the people, as he states, it would be nice if they could just please the majority of their employees in the traveling work force.

[Already Gone]

Mike, you are living proof that you can find a nugget in the rock pile every now and then.  But you have not worked as a meter-swinging tech in a commercial plant for a long time.  You haven't seen what is out there.

There was a time when people could get some training on the job.  Now, they just get time.  They get pushed through from decon to HP in the minimum time, with no training other than a "refresher" to help them pass the NEU.

Things are not the same as they were back in the day.  If you had stayed in the commercial nukes, you would have gotten disgusted about four or five promotions ago, because all of the people who were getting promoted with you didn't earn it like you did.

The navy doesn't prepare an RP for anything more than his first day in a civilian nuke.  You have to pick up the ball yourself after that - just like every other tech.

You are right; not every deconner went on to be an HP - only the ones who should have.  Note that the previous sentence is in the past tense.  They are ALL getting pushed through to cover the shortage of Senior Techs that occurs for about two weeks twice a year.  They are getting sent through way too fast.


Okay, what's going on here?  I replied to a post from Rennhack, and it's gone.  It was a good one too.  Where did it go?

[Rennhack]

Okay, what's going on here?  I replied to a post from Rennhack, and it's gone.  It was a good one too.  Where did it go?

I deleted it.  I fealt I was out of line.

[Already Gone]

You were defending your roots.  What is out of line about that?

Lots of what I have been saying can easily be taken to mean that deconners are stupid, or don't deserve to be RP's.  I don't mean that at all, but I can see how you would take that meaning from what I say.  It's hard to make this point without sounding elitist.  The fact is that most of the RP's who are former deconners are good techs, some are outstanding, but some are not.  Usually, those weren't good deconners either - which doesn't deter their progression to RP even a little.

Anyway, I don't mean to trash anybody because they didn't come out of the Navy, or didn't go to college, or weren't house techs, or anything.  I know that I had to go backward and retro-train myself because I never had a chance to be a deconner or a Junior HP.  Looking back, I find it totally ridiculous that I was allowed to cover some of the jobs that I did only a couple of weeks off the boat.  Luckily, I had a few people looking out for me.  They taught me what I needed to know.

To me the difference between a good RP and a bad one is which one of two categories they can be placed in.  One, they learn as much as they can every chance they get - or two, they are "entitled" because of the time they have put in. 

[SloGlo]

they are "entitled" because of the time they have put in. 

oooooooooooh...  aye kin sea it now.  sir hp... no weight!  lawd sloglo!

[let-it-ride]

Is going from Decon to HP an advancement??

Most of the deconners took the job because it was the best paying job they could get in the area that they lived in.  Then they got hooked in the line that they could make big bucks, plus per diem going from site to site. Most had no choice and did what they had to do to make ends meet for their family.

Many did go to being an HP. Most did a good job and deserved what went with the added responsibilities.

HOWEVER!!!!! 
There are many who take pride at being a deconner.  I have known that if X and X were at the site as a deconner, it made it easier being an HP. I can relate to many times that I went out of my way and defended anything a deconner did, because they were doing what they thought was right. They usually were right, too.

So even though I think that 51% of what Beercourt says is an Elistist Crock!! He still says what I believe to be 49% right on.
That is what makes this site, a valuable site world wide.  This has happened because Mike, allows us to express whatever praise or frustrations we have, knowing that at the end of the day, there is a topic that will make us think.  (not bad for an ex deconner)

[let-it-ride]

And Re Beercourt,

He is a valid person that makes us think. It doesn't matter if we agree with him or not, we should use his thoughts and opinions (rantings??) to our advantage.

Again, however, I think he has been out of the real experience and has been in his job of, no risk. He has his. All of the REAL Hp's are in a  pay day to pay, or outage season, and do not have the time to spend on this site as he seems to do. Ha, how much time does the self acclaimed Beercourt spend on this site on COMPANY time.

Seems as if he has unlimited time to write his thoughts  on this site while being paid to do his job.    Having your cake and eating it too??

[Already Gone]

HOWEVER!!!!! 
There are many who take pride at being a deconner.  I have known that if X and X were at the site as a deconner, it made it easier being an HP. I can relate to many times that I went out of my way and defended anything a deconner did, because they were doing what they thought was right. They usually were right, too.

Exactly!  So, why can't they just get paid what they deserve for being good at that?  Why do we have to lose all the good deconners because they became HP's (had to become HP's to make better money)?

A good deconner is worth more than a mediocre HP any day, but the $$$ doesn't follow that logic.


BTW, I don't punch a clock anymore.  When I'm on a job, I get lunch and breaks like anyone else.  When I'm not on a job, I manage my time as I see fit - including the phone calls I get on weekends from employees - for 40 hours of straight time a week.  My boss doesn't make me account for my time, and he is wise not to.  So, I get to do all the posting I want to on Saturdays.

[Rennhack]

  (not bad for an ex deconner)

The is no such thing as an ex marine, and there is no such thing as an ex deconner.

"Not bad for a deconner" is something I say often when describing myself.

[Rennhack]

BTW,

I was recently at Clinton for their spring outage.  My offer letter from Shaw said 'ALARA Coordinator', just like my past 2 jobs with Shaw.  When I got there, they tell me that I'm "Safety Engineer".  MY duties were not that of ALARA, but Industrial Safety.

I debated weather or not to stay.  In  the end, I did stay.  I reviewed my resume, and it has absoutly none of my IH experience on it. (Mind you, I've done it, just never admited to it).

[Dave Warren]

The is no such thing as an ex marine, and there is no such thing as an ex deconner.

"Not bad for a deconner" is something I say often when describing myself.

That would be correct.
I am a former Marine and Mike is a former deconner.

I think we are seeing a trend along these lines.
More companies are asking for "Super Tech" qualifications.
Kinda like this: Looking for experienced Rad Con / IH / EH&S / QA person.......Apply within.

Those of us fortunate enough to have all 4 will be getting plenty of search results from Monster.com. If you want to clean the cavity all your life, have at it.
As for me, I'll be in the rear with the gear. Sipping a cup of Starbuck's and in my office with a door.

[RAD-GHOST]

EB,

WOW, those chubby little fingers must be blistered after that one!   

You have me on the edge of my seat, what exactly is your company doing at Aiken Technical College?   

RG......

[PWHoppe]

There are many who take pride at being a deconner.  I have known that if X and X were at the site as a deconner, it made it easier being an HP. I can relate to many times that I went out of my way and defended anything a deconner did, because they were doing what they thought was right. They usually were right, too.

I agree completely. I think it is a mistake to think every deconner wants to be an HP. I frankly am grateful for those decon professionals who make my life, and the life of every HP easier. I know several career decon folks who I would take in a heartbeat over some HP's (both Sr. and Jr.) to help me during an outage.

Exactly!  So, why can't they just get paid what they deserve for being good at that?  Why do we have to lose all the good deconners because they became HP's (had to become HP's to make better money)?

A good deconner is worth more than a mediocre HP any day, but the $$$ doesn't follow that logic.

My sentiments exactly

[Jr8black3]

So BC?? I happen to be one of those deconners.. I could chose to move over anytime, I have 23 years of doing this under alot of great supervision,, BC I could promise you I could pass any test you could throw at me..

Yes BC I'm a supervisor and only those that can go forward will, the rest need to work on their ethics and structure,, I chose to teach new people instead of leaving people behind..I could have been an RP along time ago but I seen what was happening,, I stayed with my roots,, and many have went on to be RP supervisors ect.

Happy doing what I'm doing,,

GL to all

[justme]

. Nationwide the strike didn't have much effect but it did create the holy grail of pay for technicians at Diablo Canyon.

Don't think that was why they do what they do at Diablo.  It is because they wanted to choose who was they hired.  Walk outs had nothing to do with picking good workers.

[Smart People]

After 6 years on the DOE side, I returned to Commercial power outages and started catching up with former co-workers and seeing how things have changed for them. Personally i have gone from Deconner to Sr HP to ALARA, but not through any "Pipeline". I am grateful to those who were willing to give me the breaks I've needed to move upward.

some of the deconners i've worked with have moved up to HP, some are out of the RP field, some are HP Supervisors, some are Site  Coordinators, and some are still deconners. which is the way things work.

I recently worked the same outage with a married couple that i worked with as deconners many years ago. to my surprise, they are still deconners and happy to be so. i was glad to see these high quality professionals still making HP lives easier. and the high praise i heard from their supervisors was no surprise.

I agree that people like them who chose to stay in the decon field are worth their weight in gold.

[Brett LaVigne]

Don't think that was why they do what they do at Diablo.  It is because they wanted to choose who was they hired.  Walk outs had nothing to do with picking good workers.

I believe that you are partially correct. But the word on the street here at Diablo is that after the walkout, Diablo management decided that they were tired of the BS (ie. Techs being unhappy with poor wages and feeling compelled to do things like walk out) and decided to take things into their own hands. Wish more would . The level of employee at this plant is almost across the board superior to any other outages I have ever worked. Everyone tows the line or at least makes their best effort. It is always better to create an environment where people "want" to work for you instead of "having" to work for you. This puts the utility in the position of hiring only the people that have recommendations behind them of Techs that have proven themselves. There are no language barriers here (nothing against the foreign techs, some are very capable and qualified), and there is not one 3.1 tech. on site that is questionable about them having the proper resume and experience to back up the fact that they are here as a Sr. Tech.

Strive to be the best, pay like you are the best, require the best from your employee's and then...you will become the best. That is how it works, Diablo proved the theory.

Now, the pipeline is a great idea, it provides current employee's with a path of upward mobility. A company should always seek employee's (whether they are new or from within') that are reaching for something when they are seeking to fill positions higher than entry level jobs. A defined "pipeline" creates this and the employee's that are happy where they are (which can be ok too) naturally stay out of the "pipeline". The company that does this should also do a couple more things to develop a successful "pipeline" strategy.

1) Make the path enticing and worth the effort with fair wages and benefits. No one will want to travel the pipeline path without this.

2) Require that the candidates for the pipeline path are worthy candidates, not just able to fog a mirror and be able to gain unescorted access.

The later of the two points above seems to be a growing problem. If you are a Sr. Tech. at most of the current outages, are able bodied and know how to perform your job, rest assured that you will be the first one to get all of the radiologically significant and physically demanding jobs that come up. You will also draw no more pay than the 450lb guy that can do nothing other than sit a control point or the lady from south of the boarder that has to work on the frisking crew because she can't speak more than a dozen phrases in English, or the other 20+ techs that are physically unable to pass the heat stress test that would allow them to work in the cavity (all are true examples that I have seen in the past year).

Questions for process pipeline improvement:

1) Why are there not enough physically and professionally qualified employees?

Aging work force, low pay driving many sharp people to find other things to do.

2) How do we change this trend?

Entice qualified and physically able people to rejoin the workforce by offering better wages and providing a path of upward mobility.

3) How does a company like Bartlett do this?

Apply pressure on the utilities through stronger account management. There are huge arguments to raise wages for contract employee's to attract more competent workers, some of which I have mentioned above. The people managing HP and Decon contracts for Bartlett should possess two skills. Knowledge of the industry and (maybe more importantly), be a kick ass sales person.

I am not convinced that Bartlett is the Big Evil company that is only out to screw us over. I think that they have some issues not unlike any decent sized organization with their business processes and small percentage of individual corporate employee's that do not have a handle on the vision of the company.

Bringing in foreign nationals and under-qualified techs to back fill is a reaction by the company (knee jerk and maybe necessary) to fill contractual agreements between Bartlett and their customers. I am not convinced that they are paying them less in a strategy to keep wages down. I do wonder about the secrecy that surrounds the pay of foreign techs, so I remain skeptical about it. Is Bartlett gaining financially from using foreign techs over American techs and just capitalizing on having to staff with them to fulfill contract agreements? Maybe, but I don't know that to be true. These problems can not be fixed over night but can be fixed through gradual changes in the way they do business. An effective pipeline strategy is part of that fix.

End of rambling...sorry for the length, I tend to get carried away sometimes.

[RAD-GHOST]

Excuse my Ignorance, but what Pipeline?

I've read......Teaming, Partnering, Supporting, Developing, Assisting and a plethora of other politically polished impact words!  Where's the Meat and Potatoes?  What actually exist from the perspective of reality?  What's really being offered and where do people find it?  Just because I own a copy of Windows XP, doesn't mean I'm a Partner of Team Member of Microsoft, or does it?   

Hummmm.........Reminds me of an old TV commercial, "The Name goes On, before the Quality goes In"! 
Did I say that right?   

Batman,

I believe the utilities have finally hit a point where they are looking for what you suggest.  I'm seeing about 20 house positions available in the Real Pipeline!  I'm guessing about 100 more before the end of the year, time will tell?

Fog a mirror, that's optional now!

Have A Great Day....RG....