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Author Topic: Any experiences with the Navy finding out about un-disclosed criminal records?  (Read 43257 times)

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gman82

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Has any one had experience with not disclosing any type of criminal record that the navy found out about later? Either in basic training, A school, nuke school, the fleet? Please be honest, PM me if you have to.

taterhead

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I don't think there is anyone here who will recommend that you not disclose something, particularly if it can be located on a police record somewhere.

Your security clearance is serious business.  Regardless of how good you are, how good your schoolhouse scores are, or how many medals you have earned, a lost security clearance will mean a forced conversion to a non-clearance rate.  This is my experience, and I have seen it happen.  Even if the Feds don't find out about it right away, you have to reapply for your security clearance after 10 years in the Navy, and they will find it.

McBride

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No, because I didn't do anything criminal, and if I did I wouldn't have been stupid enough to try and hide it...

If you lie, you deserve what comes to you...which in some cases can actually be more criminal charges.

They aren't looking for saints as much as people they can trust.  Be someone they can trust.

Offline rumrunner

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A primary reason for a security clearance is to see if someone is trustworthy.  Submitting a knowingly false security application is serious business and is grounds for immediate termination and banning from the further work in the commercial industry.  In the Navy it would find you standing tall at Captain's Mast as a minimum. 

And yes, I have seen examples where follow-up security checks done years later have uncovered something and that person was suddenly escorted away by security.
Dave

JustinHEMI05

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Has any one had experience with not disclosing any type of criminal record that the navy found out about later? Either in basic training, A school, nuke school, the fleet? Please be honest, PM me if you have to.

Yes I have experience. I have experienced seeing a guy being removed from my submarine by escorts once because of something he "forgot" about. Don't do it... it will come back and F you. If not on the first go around (which it probably will) then definitely the second time around. Then, you will never get a job on the outside. It will follow you forever.

Justin

taterhead

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Then, you will never get a job on the outside. It will follow you forever.

Justin

I think you mean to say you will never get a job requiring a clearance. 8)

ddklbl

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Security clearance aside, wouldn't it fall under fraudulent enlistment rules?

JustinHEMI05

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I think you mean to say you will never get a job requiring a clearance. 8)

Yes, thanks for the back up. :) Probably should have mentioned too that the folks at the commercial plants will find it on the first try, even if the Navy doesn't.

Justin
« Last Edit: Feb 06, 2008, 09:03 by JustinHEMI05 »

taterhead

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Security clearance aside, wouldn't it fall under fraudulent enlistment rules?

Yes, as a matter of fact, that is the mechanism they *could* use to involuntarily discharge.  I would imagine that depending on the severity of the omission, they could keep you in and just not give you a clearance depending on how bad they wanted to make an example of you.

Offline rumrunner

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they could keep you in and just not give you a clearance depending on how bad they wanted to make an example of you.

Do they still do that?  I know it used to be that way, with threats of orders to the infamous oiler in the Indian Ocean for denuked pot-heads.  I never knew anyone who got those orders, but they did go to FF's and gator freighters for no doubt fun times at the hands of conventional snipes.
Dave

taterhead

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No, now they will just send you for an IA tour in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Guantanamo.

Nukes are protected, but conventional MMs, EMs, and ETs are a dime a dozen.

eek.

gman82

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Yes I have experience. I have experienced seeing a guy being removed from my submarine by escorts once because of something he "forgot" about. Don't do it... it will come back and F you. If not on the first go around (which it probably will) then definitely the second time around. Then, you will never get a job on the outside. It will follow you forever.

Justin

what kind of record did that guy have that was escorted off ur sub?

JustinHEMI05

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what kind of record did that guy have that was escorted off ur sub?

I don't know. we weren't told but the rumor mill says it was assault with a deadly weapon related.

Justin

McBride

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Let's stop pussy-footing around.  What did YOU do?  That is the subject that should be discussed.  What did YOU do, and have YOU already lied about it?

No double-speak.
No "let's suppose"
No "might have"
No "I have a friend"

If you expect the people on this board to spend their time helping you, then put it out there.  be honest...it's not like were JAG and will knock on your door tomorrow.  We don't even know who you really are.

If you want help, tell us.  What did you do?  When did you do it?  Have you already lied about it?





Cycoticpenguin

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Has any one had experience with not disclosing any type of criminal record that the navy found out about later? Either in basic training, A school, nuke school, the fleet? Please be honest, PM me if you have to.

yes. several people in boot camp got kicked out of the navy due to that. I also know a guy who was de nuked in prototype due to some bologne he never told the navy about. unless you have a felony, you are 99% ok. Just be honest up front...

also... theres a thing in bootcamp called the moment of truth :D Pm me about it before you go -.-

taterhead

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Let's stop pussy-footing around.  What did YOU do?  That is the subject that should be discussed.  What did YOU do, and have YOU already lied about it?


I would handle this by PM if I were you, gman. :-X

McBride

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Just to let everyone know, Gman DID answer me via PM.  He stood up like a man, and I respect that!!!

What happened occurred when he was a juvenile, and it was non-felony.

I recommended he seek legal counsel and address this ASAP.
I said that if he were already in, he needs to address it IMMEIATELY, and if not correct it before he swears in.

justatech

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What happened occurred when he was a juvenile, and it was non-felony.
I recommended he seek legal counsel and address this ASAP.
I said that if he were already in, he needs to address it IMMEIATELY, and if not correct it before he swears in.

Kudos to you McBride. Better to take care of this prior to swearing in - however it depends on the non-felony..............

my buddies kid signed for the Marines right out of high school in the mid 90's - he had a non felony - pulled over on night - they found a roach in his ash tray and he was written up - non felony.......not much right?  So he thought - he wanted special guns/ammo and all that high dollar surveillance stuff.......because of this he could not get a security clearance - Jason is still in the Marines but this tarnished his record from the git go.  That is not to say that after 10 years he can not advance - he was 17 then and not a Marine...................now he's 27 and a mean, lean fighting machine that they have poured their training and trust into - so who knows maybe he know can get that special clearance.............

What the bottom line is - be 110% honest and work from there to build your character in the military - with a clean slate - no one to hide from.

JustinHEMI05

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Just to let everyone know, Gman DID answer me via PM.  He stood up like a man, and I respect that!!!

What happened occurred when he was a juvenile, and it was non-felony.

I recommended he seek legal counsel and address this ASAP.
I said that if he were already in, he needs to address it IMMEIATELY, and if not correct it before he swears in.

Nicely done.

Justin

gman82

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What the bottom line is - be 110% honest and work from there to build your character in the military - with a clean slate - no one to hide from.

Amen! I'm too much of a worry wort for this S#&T, I definitly plan to work this out somehow

nukemdukem

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Lets just say for hypothetical reasons that if I with held 1 speeding ticket... What would happen?

McBride

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Lets just say for hypothetical reasons that if I with held 1 speeding ticket... What would happen?

We would let BEERCOURT have his way with you.

Offline Marlin

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We would let BEERCOURT have his way with you.

That's capital punishment on nukeworker isn't it?  ;)

Fermi2

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Lets just say for hypothetical reasons that if I with held 1 speeding ticket... What would happen?


Back in 1984 when I got in I hadn't been exactly an altar boy as a civilian and they let me in. For the first couple years every time I changed commands someone would decide to interview me about taking my NEC away but nothing came of it as I had a very good service record.

The great thing was when I applied to be in Projects (ie Ivy Bells) I was getting my interview from the NIS and FBI. I figured ok here it comes. Finally I just said look guys, I did such and such when I was young, dumb and 18 do we need to discuss it? They both said Nah, you seem to have done quite well then proceeded to ask me if I had ever had sex with animals. After that point it was never mentioned. Since then I have passed a multitude of background checks in the Navy and in the Civilian world and came away good. I also make sure I disclose everything on any background check no matter how long ago.

Honesty works.

Mike

nukemdukem

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So lets say when that moment of truth comes about in boot, what shall one do in such a hypothetical situation?

Offline Gamecock

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Get it taken care of before you go!!  Contact your recruiter and tell him about the ticket. 
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Fermi2

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So lets say when that moment of truth comes about in boot, what shall one do in such a hypothetical situation?


Are you really this F ing STUPID???

Mike

taterhead

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Are you really this F ing STUPID???

Mike

my sentiments exactly.

McBride

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So lets say when that moment of truth comes about in boot, what shall one do in such a hypothetical situation?

Moment of truth?  That sounds too much like a LifeTime Television program.  What?  Are you expecting to get caught watching the other guys in the shower?  This is still about your traffic ticket, right?

How about this...  Be truthful NOW and then later you don't have to remember lies and background stories.

Also, you should probably avoid hitting on your Company Commander as well, no matter how hot he looks in khaki.

Cycoticpenguin

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So lets say when that moment of truth comes about in boot, what shall one do in such a hypothetical situation?

3 simple rules

1) stay seated
2) keep your mouth shut
3) watch in amusement/bewilderment at all the (colorful adjectives here) idiots standing up.

you will never see them again.


Fermi2

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3 simple rules

1) stay seated
2) keep your mouth shut
3) watch in amusement/bewilderment at all the (colorful adjectives here) idiots standing up.

you will never see them again.




That's the stupidest advice I've ever heard and tells me a lot about the state of honesty in the USN today.

Mike

taterhead

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That's the stupidest advice I've ever heard and tells me a lot about the state of honesty in the USN today.

Mike

"I didn't know you had a flair for the melodramatic."

-Citizen Kane

Fermi2

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LOL!!!!!!

No but I do have this thing about honesty and face it the advice was just plain stupid, as many background checks as they do these days the odds are you'd end up getting caught. You reveal prior to entering the USN.

Mike

Cycoticpenguin

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LOL!!!!!!

No but I do have this thing about honesty and face it the advice was just plain stupid, as many background checks as they do these days the odds are you'd end up getting caught. You reveal prior to entering the USN.

Mike

thats exactly the advice I gave him in response to the PM he sent me. EXACTLY.
HYPOTHETICALLY-

however if he had a party with his friends before he left, I do NOT feel he should give up his career in the navy because he had a couple beers underage to party with his friends before he left.  Do you? I feel there are some things you just keep your mouth shut about.


gman82

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Don't leave anything out.  PERIOD!

As a side note:
I went to school with those that didn't disclose EVERYTHING and they lived on pins and needles .... literally. 

To be Clear about this topic's question:
HONESTY / INTEGRITY / HONOR / DEDICATION

These are the corner stones of Navy Nuclear Power.

Yeah that sounds like it could be me, I've already begun the process of clearing things up.

my backround is too minor too be living on edge over, I'm sure becoming a nuke is stressful enough, thank all of you guys for helping me see that honestly can be such a weight lifted off my shoulders



Cycoticpenguin

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Don't leave anything out.  PERIOD!

As a side note:
I went to school with those that didn't disclose EVERYTHING and they lived on pins and needles .... literally. 

To be Clear about this topic's question:
HONESTY / INTEGRITY / HONOR / DEDICATION

These are the corner stones of Navy Nuclear Power.



Yeah, I spoke with him about this. In this case, yes, he needs to disclose. 

McBride

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Yeah, I spoke with him about this. In this case, yes, he needs to disclose. 

Uh, THIS case?  But in others "HONESTY / INTEGRITY / HONOR / DEDICATION"  need not apply?

JustinHEMI05

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Uh, THIS case?  But in others "HONESTY / INTEGRITY / HONOR / DEDICATION"  need not apply?

Not to today's youth. And yes I am generalizing again because yet again, my generalization is confirmed. For the most part (not all), the folks leaving high school today and entering the navy today don't have the same level of respect for authority, or things like honesty and integrity as people did 10 20 30 or more years ago. Its the video game passive child raising age and the parents are mostly to blame, followed by the schools. Its sad really. Of course, this all just my opinion and I could be wrong, but cycotic's responses to this thread reinforce my beliefs.

Justin
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2008, 11:57 by JustinHEMI05 »

JustinHEMI05

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Yeah, I spoke with him about this. In this case, yes, he needs to disclose. 

Just exactly who are you to decide whether or not he needs to disclose anything? What do you know? If I were him, I would stay as far away from your advice as possible, You know NOTHING. You have NO experience or real navy knowledge outside of your little pipeline world. You are not qualified to be giving this kind of advice. FACT.

Justin

Offline goobs22xx

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Not to today's youth. And yes I am generalizing again because yet again, my generalization is confirmed. For the most part (not all), the folks leaving high school today and entering the navy today don't have the same level of respect for authority, or things like honesty and integrity as people did 10 20 30 or more years ago. Its the video game passive child raising age and the parents are mostly to blame, followed by the schools. Its sad really. Of course, this all just my opinion and I could be wrong, but cycotic's responses to this thread reinforce my beliefs.

Justin

Based on what I've seen, the 28+ (10 years older than guys entering now) really aren't above your generalizations either. And this is at prototype (where the standards are supposed to be higher).


mlslstephens

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The problem is not in the generalization.  But, in the NNPS program of today.  If you expect and demand Excellence you get it.  If you water it down and call it Excellence you get nothing more than a definition.

Navy Nuke Power is special because of the Sailor's that operate the equipment, run the schools and commands.  Not the other way around.

So, if you let the rif'raf stay in the program they have an effect/affect of causing Mediocrity and not Excellence.

Will there be Excellent Sailors.  Sure.

Will there be Mediocre Sailors.  More than one and less than all.  All because of the NNPS program of today.  They no longer Filter the the water three times.  The just keep pumping the same ole' bad water three times.

The fleet gets the waste.  (In the ole' days that had a different meaning.)

Somehow things will change.  I'm seeing to many Easily Offended First Class Petty Officers around the NukeWorker forums in recent posts.  I guess we should care about the feelings of Mediocre Sailors.  They make the Majority today it seems.

If you are Offended then you are one of the Mediocre Sailors.  (Thats how you would know if you where wondering.)

HC, you are right on track.  Thanks for saying it.

It IS the program, not the people.  I remember when I came in and I heard all the crusty old "lifers" ( I can say this now since I am one) say that the guys coming in today aren't as good as "when we came in".  I'm sure that back in the sixties when those guys came in someone said that about them too.  Sure, today's youth listen to music with different devices than we used back then, but there isn't an enormous difference in how the youth think as opposed to how we thought back then.  The difference is what you do with the guys who "choose" to buck the system.  We are much kinder and gentler to guys who violate articles of the UCMJ.  I'm not saying that we take everyone out to the wood shed but I do wish a Chief could strike fear in the hearts of young sailors like they did when I was a young sailor.

JustinHEMI05

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Based on what I've seen, the 28+ (10 years older than guys entering now) really aren't above your generalizations either. And this is at prototype (where the standards are supposed to be higher).



Actually yes, I think you are right. Like I said I could be wrong but thinking back I remember not being too impressed with most of the guys I worked with either. Perhaps it is a program. Perhaps a little of both. Who really knows? But, I don't think cycotic learned that "sometimes its ok to lie" in the program.

Justin
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2008, 01:45 by JustinHEMI05 »

Offline Gamecock

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I'm not saying that we take everyone out to the wood shed but I do wish a Chief could strike fear in the hearts of young sailors like they did when I was a young sailor.

Therein lies the vast majority of the problem.  The Goat Locker ain't what it used to be. 
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Cycoticpenguin

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Uh, THIS case?  But in others "HONESTY / INTEGRITY / HONOR / DEDICATION"  need not apply?

sigh... did you go tell on yourself as a junior sailor? That would be the HONEST/HONORABLE/DEDICATED thing to do. "chief, I was sleeping in berthing when I wasnt supposed to"... thats what I told him. I was curious if he went out and did something mildly stupid that doesnt warrant getting de-nuked for, especially as a civilian. Id prefer if people didnt get high and mighty about ethics, being as I'm sure everyone here is not a perfect person.

JustinHEMI05

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sigh... did you go tell on yourself as a junior sailor? That would be the HONEST/HONORABLE/DEDICATED thing to do. "chief, I was sleeping in berthing when I wasnt supposed to"... thats what I told him. I was curious if he went out and did something mildly stupid that doesnt warrant getting de-nuked for, especially as a civilian. Id prefer if people didnt get high and mighty about ethics, being as I'm sure everyone here is not a perfect person.

No but there is a HUGE difference between "hey I had a drink with my friends before I left" and "hey I committed a crime when..."  Thats the point you are not getting. You obviously have a skewed view of ethics and morality.

Justin

ddklbl

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Therein lies the vast majority of the problem.  The Goat Locker ain't what it used to be. 

Let's not go there. 

To everyone, there seems to be a lot of finger pointing of where culpability ultimately lies.  I think the answer is in the original post.  Under what circumstances would anyone think it is acceptable, when asked of criminal record type transgressions, to not provide full disclosure.  There is a culture, whether we like it or not, that standards are not required to be maintained (this thread is proof).  It's not the goatlockers fault.  It's not the wardrooms fault.  It's not the dirty blueshirt's fault.  The Navy, as a whole, needs recalibrated.   

I can blame the recruiter for recruiting a sailor who thought hiding criminal record information as ok.  I could blame the organization responsible for background checks for not catching the missing record.  I could blame the RDC for not adequately instilling the Navy Core Values in the recruits short 8 week fiesta known as boot camp.  I could blame the service schools for lowering there standards in the bean counters attempt to lower attrition.  I could blame the sea command for its role in fostering a "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' " atmosphere.  When does the blame game stop?  It should stop at the sailor.  But what do I know.

Instead, WE will just institute a series of corrective actions, amend someones policy notes, put an entry into the night orders about how some issue was bad and document the deficiency as fixed.  After all, training documented is training done.  We've all accepted this some time or another.

taterhead

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Therein lies the vast majority of the problem.  The Goat Locker ain't what it used to be. 


Is anything really what it used to be?

I need to stop before I get started on this one. :-X

Cycoticpenguin

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No but there is a HUGE difference between "hey I had a drink with my friends before I left" and "hey I committed a crime when..."  Thats the point you are not getting. You obviously have a skewed view of ethics and morality.

Justin

no no no lol. I told him straight up to report it before you guys jumped down my butt. I dont have a skewed vision of ethics -.- I was wondering if he did something small and stupid like smoking pot at a going away party or something like that. (I had a friend join the Air Force, and he stood up during the moment of truth and told them he smoked weed at a new years party, and they freaking kicked him out!) I didnt want to see someone give up a future becuase they were "young and dumb" once.

McBride

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...you guys jumped down my butt....

I feel so . . . dirty!  :'(

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you guys jumped down my butt.

Its part of "earning your dolphins"  ;)

Offline PWHoppe

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no no no lol. I told him straight up to report it before you guys jumped down my butt. I dont have a skewed vision of ethics -.- I was wondering if he did something small and stupid like smoking pot at a going away party or something like that. (I had a friend join the Air Force, and he stood up during the moment of truth and told them he smoked weed at a new years party, and they freaking kicked him out!) I didnt want to see someone give up a future becuase they were "young and dumb" once.

The problem with NOT admitting as your friend did, is that for certain types of clearances, such as a DOE "Q" clearance, you will have somebody tracking down your old buddies and asking them about you. I have intimate knowledge with this as I had people I had not seen or talked to in 30+ years quizzed about my actions in days of yore :-X. No matter what ADMIT IT UP FRONT!
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

gman82

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Wow this thread got pretty heated  :o Thanks for everyones posts  ;D

Cycoticpenguin

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The problem with NOT admitting as your friend did, is that for certain types of clearances, such as a DOE "Q" clearance, you will have somebody tracking down your old buddies and asking them about you. I have intimate knowledge with this as I had people I had not seen or talked to in 30+ years quizzed about my actions in days of yore :-X. No matter what ADMIT IT UP FRONT!


hmm. Fair argument there.

PSUNittanyLions

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First post here.

This thread piqued my interest because I find myself in a similar dilemma.

After I went through MEPS to DEP in, I got a speeding ticket.  My driving record was not clean to begin with, but this was the first blemish on my NC license.  As you probably know, every time you show up at a monthly DEP meeting, you fill out a form asking if you had done drugs, had any police interaction, been to court, gotten anyone pregnant, etc.  I had gone to courtfor this ticket, requested, and was granted a "Prayer for Judgement" which, from my understanding, basically gets you out of one ticket every three years as long as you pay the court costs (the majority of the ticket).  This keeps the ticket off of your driving record and does not affect your insurance.  Now I also understand that there isn't anything on your driving record that the Navy cannot see, regardless of whether or not the court says an item was removed or hidden.

That said, when I filled out my DEP sheet, I did not mention my encounter with the officer, or my visit to the courthouse.  To be 100% honest, I forgot.  However, at the following meeting, I knowingly lied on my DEP sheet, and still did not mention the violation, simply because I was being a wuss.

I am in no way debating NOT disclosing this to my recruiter, in fact I have told him that I want to speak with him in private before our next meeting.  I am, however, wondering if those two false DEP sheets will affect me, even after I come clean.

Thanks in advance.

mlslstephens

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However, at the following meeting, I knowingly lied on my DEP sheet, and still did not mention the violation, simply because I was being a wuss.

Not a good way to start regardless of how small you think the issue is.

  I am, however, wondering if those two false DEP sheets will affect me, even after I come clean.
I think it already has. :-\

PSUNittanyLions

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Not a good way to start regardless of how small you think the issue is.

I realize this.

I think it already has. :-\

With all due respect, this tells me effectively nothing.

Offline Gamecock

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Great Scott!!!!!!!!!!

Tell the truth already.  Tell your recruiter you got a ticket.  Now!!!

Do the right thing.  A ticket ain't a big deal.

If your willing to lie about a simple speeding ticket...what else are you going to be willing to lie about in the future????
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

PSUNittanyLions

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You're right, I don't know why I didn't just say something as soon as I remember, it was stupid.  I guess I was just freaked out about the possibility of losing this huge oppurtunity.

Thanks, guys!  I look forward to frequenting this forum.

mlslstephens

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I realize this.

With all due respect, this tells me effectively nothing.

PSUNittanyLions, here is what I meant by "I think it already has" comment.  The people who make up the USN come from every walk of life with many different views on honesty and integrity.  Some people would never even consider telling the recruiter "little things" and when confronted wonder what the big deal is.  Well, obviously, you get it.  After remembering about the ticket, there was this little voice in your head that wondered about your level of integrity.  Just wondering means that you were affected and probably, the next time something like this comes up, you will be quick to "remember" anything that might be of importance.  That is all I meant about the comment.  Good luck with your private conversation.  :)

PSUNittanyLions

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PSUNittanyLions, here is what I meant by "I think it already has" comment.  The people who make up the USN come from every walk of life with many different views on honesty and integrity.  Some people would never even consider telling the recruiter "little things" and when confronted wonder what the big deal is.  Well, obviously, you get it.  After remembering about the ticket, there was this little voice in your head that wondered about your level of integrity.  Just wondering means that you were affected and probably, the next time something like this comes up, you will be quick to "remember" anything that might be of importance.  That is all I meant about the comment.  Good luck with your private conversation.  :)

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  I apologize for coming off harshly.

Thanks!!

Cycoticpenguin

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I realize this.

With all due respect, this tells me effectively nothing.

simply put, you are not in the navy yet. so no. It shouldnt do anything to you.  Navy doesnt truly care about speeding tickets (unless its 50 over, reckless driving etc). We care about your ability to safely operate a nuclear reactor plant, and your ability to make the right choices. a speeding ticket is something really stupid to lie about.

 


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