Enlisted vs. Officer

[sfrederick]

Would being a nuclear officer be better or worse experience for working in the civilian sector?  Would an enlisted person with a bachelor's degree be more or less valuable?
I'd think that an officer would know less about the job than the enlisted person who is actually doing the work.
Any input?

[JustinHEMI05]

Would being a nuclear officer be better or worse experience for working in the civilian sector?  Would an enlisted person with a bachelor's degree be more or less valuable?
I'd think that an officer would know less about the job than the enlisted person who is actually doing the work.
Any input?

Either way, you are just entry level. To put it another way, I am a degreed enlisted EOOW/EWS and I have officers starting at the same level as me. Sometimes less depending on the job. Now, I will say that is true if the officer is a JO getting out as an LT qualified engineer. If you go on with your officer career and say, do a department head tour, things might change some. But, there are folks here that just simply say NAVY = ENTRY LEVEL, and to some degree, I think they are right. But, I will submit that ADM Bowman wasn't entry level when he got out. In fact, I think he went straight to CEO of NEI. But that is not you or most people getting out. The regular full career ogangers will probably be better off too, but in the time you spent in the navy, you could have risen even furthur on the outside. To boil it all down, really, there is no difference between degreed enlisted EWS/JO getting out.

Justin

PS Right now, you can even drop the degree off of enlisted if you are talking about operations at some places.

[ddklbl]

Either way, you are just entry level.

You know, that thought process really pisses me off.  I'm not picking on you Justin, and I don't think you meant any malice by it, but there are a lot of people that say that on this board with a sense of negative connotation.  From an OPS perspective, everyone is entry level when they start a new job.  Case in point:

Licensed PWR SRO gets hired on at another PWR.

Licensed PWR SRO gets hired on at a BWR.

Navy vet gets hired on at a PWR.

Licensed BWR guy decides to join the Navy.

Where do each of these guys start off at their new job?  They all start off in "Entry Level" training.  To say that someone is only entry level isn't a statement of any real significance on your part.  And, regardless of what anyone says, past performance does not guarantee future results.  I've seen several multiple license operators who I don't trust in their current capacity. 

I'm not throwing any stones at you, Justin.  Just an observation on my part that you fell victim to.

So, my contribution to the original post, which doesn't really depart from what's already been said both here and above:  Unless you stay in for 20 and gain experience at executive level management it won't matter one bit.

[ddklbl]

Regardless of the likelihood or the number of jokes you make, none of it makes the statement less valid.

[JustinHEMI05]

You know, that thought process really pisses me off.  I'm not picking on you Justin, and I don't think you meant any malice by it, but there are a lot of people that say that on this board with a sense of negative connotation.  From an OPS perspective, everyone is entry level when they start a new job.  Case in point:

Licensed PWR SRO gets hired on at another PWR.

Licensed PWR SRO gets hired on at a BWR.

Navy vet gets hired on at a PWR.

Licensed BWR guy decides to join the Navy.

Where do each of these guys start off at their new job?  They all start off in "Entry Level" training.  To say that someone is only entry level isn't a statement of any real significance on your part.  And, regardless of what anyone says, past performance does not guarantee future results.  I've seen several multiple license operators who I don't trust in their current capacity. 

I'm not throwing any stones at you, Justin.  Just an observation on my part that you fell victim to.

So, my contribution to the original post, which doesn't really depart from what's already been said both here and above:  Unless you stay in for 20 and gain experience at executive level management it won't matter one bit.

I disagree in that as an entry level SRO, I have little say in my pay and benefits. When I get my license, and want to go somewhere else, I will be deciding my pay and benefits. Thats whats really meant by it. That is entry level. And I also disagree that even previously licensed individuals attending ILT are entry level. Sure, they have to go through the training again, but they will be trusted and relied upon way... WAY sooner than you or I. They will likely be looked at for more "important" jobs first, too.  And, they are getting paid a lot more than me. But you're right in that its negative connotation, I will choose different words when this comes up for the 1 millionth time. Also, thanks for agree with me in the end.

Justin

PS I have no problems being entry level at this point in my career. I think, perhaps, more people should embrace their reality and enjoy it while they can. Because when you are no long entry level, life only seems to get more difficult/stressful.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Would being a nuclear officer be better or worse experience for working in the civilian sector?  Would an enlisted person with a bachelor's degree be more or less valuable?
I'd think that an officer would know less about the job than the enlisted person who is actually doing the work.
Any input?

I know this sounds like dancing around it a little but it depends on what work you're looking at doing in the private sector.  An officer might be more acclimated to the daily B.S. that gets high level decisions made while not completely understanding the work that's being done or the frustration being experienced by those he supervises, if he goes that route. 

An enlisted person with a bachelors degree could be considered more valuable in some situations, both in management or as a worker on the shop floor.  Due to their background they might be able to "translate" between worker bee and mid to upper management and vice versa. 

Could you give an idea of which route you are thinking of?  By the way, Welcome to Nukeworker and Thanks for your service to our country!

Tom

[ddklbl]

What I am saying, in regard to the original post, is there is no difference between officer and enlisted on the outside for those who do a short stint and bolt. 

What I am saying about the entry level charge, is it is a pointless argument.  As crass a notion would be for a commercial guy to join the navy, his license doesn't give him any different edge than anyone else.  He is entry level.  For a navy guy hiring on at a utility, he is entry level.  For a PWR SRO to hire on at a BWR, he too is entry level because his current license does not transfer; he too has to start from the beginning.  Entry level is a useless, hollow phrase that only describes the obvious.  Recertification requires you to start from the beginning.  People on this board use it as a divisive and demeaning argument to suggest that there is some sort of class system in power plant operations based solely on your previous experience.  Nope, prior commercial and prior navy guys qualify the same position, work the same shift, probably getting paid near the same salary when things are said and done.

As far as the trust issue goes, I agree that previous commercial guys are quicker to earn the trust, but that's dangerous and unwarranted.  How many times, Justin, did an 18 year Chief, who was trusted more than the dirty blue shirt, screw the pooch standing EDO because of the commands misplaced confidence in his "experience".  Was his trust warranted by deference to his previous experience on other platforms? 

[JustinHEMI05]

What I am saying, in regard to the original post, is there is no difference between officer and enlisted on the outside for those who do a short stint and bolt. 

What I am saying about the entry level charge, is it is a pointless argument.  As crass a notion would be for a commercial guy to join the navy, his license doesn't give him any different edge than anyone else.  He is entry level.  For a navy guy hiring on at a utility, he is entry level.  For a PWR SRO to hire on at a BWR, he too is entry level because his current license does not transfer; he too has to start from the beginning.  Entry level is a useless, hollow phrase that only describes the obvious.  Recertification requires you to start from the beginning.  People on this board use it as a divisive and demeaning argument to suggest that there is some sort of class system in power plant operations based solely on your previous experience.  Nope, prior commercial and prior navy guys qualify the same position, work the same shift, probably getting paid near the same salary when things are said and done.

As far as the trust issue goes, I agree that previous commercial guys are quicker to earn the trust, but that's dangerous and unwarranted.  How many times, Justin, did an 18 year Chief, who was trusted more than the dirty blue shirt, screw the pooch standing EDO because of the commands misplaced confidence in his "experience".  Was his trust warranted by deference to his previous experience on other platforms? 

I think this thread has quickly taken a turn in a direction it wasn't supposed to go. At this point, I will just agree to disagree and shut up.

Justin

[mlslstephens]

I think this thread has quickly taken a turn in a direction it wasn't supposed to go. At this point, I will just agree to disagree and shut up.

Justin

Did you watch the video?  I'm proud of you Justin.  Here's some Karma your way. 

[JustinHEMI05]

Did you watch the video?  I'm proud of you Justin.  Here's some Karma your way. 

No it has nothing to do with the video, but sometimes its just pointless to argue, especially if the argument has nothing to do with the actual topic. And, I just really didn't have it in me to carry this one on anymore Thanks for the K

Justin

[Fermi2]

I was an SRO and SM at a BWR, when I left it for the PWR World I had to license as an SRO but I was hardly entry level and while in the training program it was expected I'd take more responsibility and do more things than a NUB Zero who had never operated anything but a startup source.

I have a very good clue as to how to determine whether a position is entry level. Find an Org Chart, find the top guy then follow the solid lines all the way till you find the guy on the bottom. That person would be the entry level position. Pretty neat eh?

Mike

[sfrederick]

I know this sounds like dancing around it a little but it depends on what work you're looking at doing in the private sector.  An officer might be more acclimated to the daily B.S. that gets high level decisions made while not completely understanding the work that's being done or the frustration being experienced by those he supervises, if he goes that route. 

An enlisted person with a bachelors degree could be considered more valuable in some situations, both in management or as a worker on the shop floor.  Due to their background they might be able to "translate" between worker bee and mid to upper management and vice versa. 

Could you give an idea of which route you are thinking of?  By the way, Welcome to Nukeworker and Thanks for your service to our country!

Tom

I'm just starting MM A-School.  I'm most likely going to go the enlisted route, I was just trying to get a bit more information before I decided on whether or not to bother with the officer package.  If I get selected for ELT, I think I'd be interested in a QA job.  If I don't, I really have no clue what I'd do with the MM experience.  Also, I've got an AAS in MET already.  Would it be a wise idea to continue toward a BS in ME, NE, or both (With MM or ELT experience)?

Also, I don't think the thread has gotten too off topic.  All of the information I've read has been helpful.

[JustinHEMI05]

I'm just starting MM A-School.  I'm most likely going to go the enlisted route, I was just trying to get a bit more information before I decided on whether or not to bother with the officer package.  If I get selected for ELT, I think I'd be interested in a QA job.  If I don't, I really have no clue what I'd do with the MM experience.  Also, I've got an AAS in MET already.  Would it be a wise idea to continue toward a BS in ME, NE, or both (With MM or ELT experience)?

Also, I don't think the thread has gotten too off topic.  All of the information I've read has been helpful.

See it really depends... do you want a career in the navy or do you want to do your 6 and get out? If you want a career, I recommend going for officer. If you just want to do some time to get your foot in the door on the outside, I say stay enlisted, qualify everything you can and of course finish your degree if you have the time and means. Its always a good idea to have a degree in your back pocket if you can, just in case. But, you would be OK without it, too.

Good luck!

Justin

[Loffy Muffin]

for commerical nuke ops: six and split...
 the ABET degree will not make enough of a difference to be worth the time/effort for you to get the degree. You can get the McDegree from one of these online things, get into an NLO/SRO class and not look back. 

Forget NE unless you just love Nuclear.  ME is more flexiable.

General all purpose go anywhere engineering:
Other sectors (manufacturing/oil gas, EPC), you need a degree.  the online degree will not do it..Staff engineer at a plant, you need a degree.

Love the Navy and want to make it a career ():
Go officer.  Enlisted stinks.  Bad.  Unless you love  cleaning bilges 60 hours a week to make some dork engineering officer look good for his next promotion.  While you are at it, get into something cool like flying jets.  Nuke Navy is long, boring, hours.  Not fun officer or enlisted.  Flying jets compared to standing a watch on a sub?  Please.

[Marlin]

I1) Give me 200 feet and 400 knots (in the military) or

I'm pretty sure that 400 knots is outside the safe operating envelope at any depth.

[PapaBear765]

As far as the trust issue goes, I agree that previous commercial guys are quicker to earn the trust, but that's dangerous and unwarranted.  How many times, Justin, did an 18 year Chief, who was trusted more than the dirty blue shirt, screw the pooch standing EDO because of the commands misplaced confidence in his "experience".  Was his trust warranted by deference to his previous experience on other platforms? 

It got so bad on my boat while in the yards that the only guys who were allowed to stand EDPO were the two E-6's and the one E-8.  The other chiefs and the EDMC had all been given the qual cards with everything but the interviews deleted, on the assumption that since they're chiefs they'll be fine, and they caused more incident reports than anyone else.

[Fermi2]

I agree, get an ME, it is more flexible.

I'm confused about one thing, what the hell does being an ELT have to do with getting a QA Job?

Mike

[sfrederick]

I agree, get an ME, it is more flexible.

I'm confused about one thing, what the hell does being an ELT have to do with getting a QA Job?

Mike

Not sure what to say to that one.  Haha.  Monitoring reactor safety and testing water sounds kinda like Quality Assurance to me, but I'm only in A-School and don't know much about the job yet so...

[Fermi2]

Not sure what to say to that one.  Haha.  Monitoring reactor safety and testing water sounds kinda like Quality Assurance to me, but I'm only in A-School and don't know much about the job yet so...

You're right, you're a NUB who knows nothing about nuclear power, I'm a former ELT who somehow has managed to obtain 3 license from the NRC. In about 15 to 18 months you'll be qualified to comment.

QA and ELT are not related, they are totally different functions.

Mike

[JustinHEMI05]

You're right, you're a NUB who knows nothing about nuclear power, I'm a former ELT who somehow has managed to obtain 3 license from the NRC. In about 15 to 18 months you'll be qualified to comment.

QA and ELT are not related, they are totally different functions.

Mike

Talk about shooting the innocent in the face. I don't think he meant any malice by confusing QA and ELT.

Justin

[Gamecock]

You're right, you're a NUB who knows nothing about nuclear power, I'm a former ELT who somehow has managed to obtain 3 license from the NRC. In about 15 to 18 months you'll be qualified to comment.

QA and ELT are not related, they are totally different functions.

Mike

Ligthen up, Francis!!

[LDO4CNO]

I'm just starting MM A-School.  I'm most likely going to go the enlisted route, I was just trying to get a bit more information before I decided on whether or not to bother with the officer package.  If I get selected for ELT, I think I'd be interested in a QA job.  If I don't, I really have no clue what I'd do with the MM experience.  Also, I've got an AAS in MET already.  Would it be a wise idea to continue toward a BS in ME, NE, or both (With MM or ELT experience)?

Also, I don't think the thread has gotten too off topic.  All of the information I've read has been helpful.

Shipmate,

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking of how I may be able to convince you an Officer Program is right for you.  Then I came across your last entry.  You answered your own question here.  As long as you consider applying for the program as “A BOTHER”, you need not pursue it.   Remain enlisted, get some experience (AT SEA), then reevaluate.  Your career decisions need to be based on far more than the difficulty of the application process.

JB

[PapaBear765]

You're right, you're a NUB who knows nothing about nuclear power, I'm a former ELT who somehow has managed to obtain 3 license from the NRC. In about 15 to 18 months you'll be qualified to comment.

QA and ELT are not related, they are totally different functions.

Mike

Wow, talk about unnecessary.  Once again Mike is trying prove how much more of a man he is than the rest of us. 

Mike your comments are becoming less entertaining with each successive post.  Speaking for myself, I'd like to ask you to just not post at all unless you have something constructive to say.  Thank you.

[Fermi2]

I found the lads tone to be patronizing. Prior to ASSUMING ELT was analogous to QA he should have asked his compadres and staff instructors what QA is. It's what I would have done and what I would expect of anyone.

Had he posted the following: What is the difference between verifying water chemistry and Quality Assurance I would have given the non qual a nice answer.

When I see people posting on assumption then saying well I might not know this quite yet, then I get a bit miffed because if you weren't sure you knew it then why did you open your big mouth.

Speak from knowledge, not assumption.

Mike

[PapaBear765]

I found the lads tone to be patronizing. Prior to ASSUMING ELT was analogous to QA he should have asked his compadres and staff instructors what QA is. It's what I would have done and what I would expect of anyone.

Had he posted the following: What is the difference between verifying water chemistry and Quality Assurance I would have given the non qual a nice answer.

When I see people posting on assumption then saying well I might not know this quite yet, then I get a bit miffed because if you weren't sure you knew it then why did you open your big mouth.

Speak from knowledge, not assumption.

Mike

Well, I for one will try to adhere to your preferences whenever I post in these forums.

[taterhead]

Shipmate,

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking of how I may be able to convince you an Officer Program is right for you.  Then I came across your last entry.  You answered your own question here.  As long as you consider applying for the program as “A BOTHER”, you need not pursue it.   Remain enlisted, get some experience (AT SEA), then reevaluate.  Your career decisions need to be based on far more than the difficulty of the application process.

JB

I used to have a CMC that used to tell our best Sailors to get into the "Seaman to Master Chief" program.  I liked that.  I never wanted my best Sailors to be officers.

I successfully resisted the temptation to put in a LDO package.  I only had to look at how "beat down" our LDO's were in department.

[JustinHEMI05]

Shipmate,

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking of how I may be able to convince you an Officer Program is right for you.  Then I came across your last entry.  You answered your own question here.  As long as you consider applying for the program as “A BOTHER”, you need not pursue it.   Remain enlisted, get some experience (AT SEA), then reevaluate.  Your career decisions need to be based on far more than the difficulty of the application process.

JB

Here this is for you. Oh, and here is a secret... not everyone wants to be you.

Justin

[PapaBear765]

Can everyone stop already with the rudeness and lack of civility?  How about treating each other with a certain minimum level of respect?  If you have something condescending to say to someone, do it via PM not in the thread.

Where's a Moderator when you need one?

[Cycoticpenguin]

I'm just starting MM A-School.  I'm most likely going to go the enlisted route, I was just trying to get a bit more information before I decided on whether or not to bother with the officer package.  If I get selected for ELT, I think I'd be interested in a QA job.  If I don't, I really have no clue what I'd do with the MM experience.  Also, I've got an AAS in MET already.  Would it be a wise idea to continue toward a BS in ME, NE, or both (With MM or ELT experience)?

Also, I don't think the thread has gotten too off topic.  All of the information I've read has been helpful.

hope you realize EVERYONE ON THE SHIP has to qualify QA right? Not to mention  you arent gaurenteed squat. It sounds to me like you need to have a long chit chat with your LCPO about your job, because you obviously have no clue. That said, worrying about QA and ELT is pointless. Focus on becoming an MM to begin with.

[JustinHEMI05]

hope you realize EVERYONE ON THE SHIP has to qualify QA right? Not to mention  you arent gaurenteed squat. It sounds to me like you need to have a long chit chat with your LCPO about your job, because you obviously have no clue. That said, worrying about QA and ELT is pointless. Focus on becoming an MM to begin with.

Shouldn't you be studying something? Leave the kid alone. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Can everyone stop already with the rudeness and lack of civility?  How about treating each other with a certain minimum level of respect?  If you have something condescending to say to someone, do it via PM not in the thread.

Where's a Moderator when you need one?

Are you serious? Nukes have been eating their young since the beginning of time. Why would it change now? And here of all places? Pfft.

 

Seriously though, why people suddenly attacked this kid is beyond me. I think he was just looking for guidance but others (mike and cyto and LDO) too offense to his comments and lack of knowledge for some reason. Out of those three, one doesn't even know what he is taking offense to. Can you guess which one?

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

Shouldn't you be studying something? Leave the kid alone. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Justin

what are YOU talking about? Everyone on the ship has to qualify 3m/QA and craftsman.... and this guy obviously does not know his job (he's in a school). I learned more from talking to my chiefs in A school then I did from my instructors. (sometimes the same person )

[Fermi2]

Oh pish posh, I know exactly what I took offense to, a NUB posting something, then saying that he didn't really know to begin with. If he didn't know to begin with he shouldn't have posted.

As for Cycotic, he's a NUB too. When he gets qualified the other NUBs should pay attention, until then well you know!!

Mike

[DDMurray]

what are YOU talking about? Everyone on the ship has to qualify 3m/QA and craftsman.... and this guy obviously does not know his job (he's in a school). I learned more from talking to my chiefs in A school then I did from my instructors. (sometimes the same person )

   Every nuke on every submarine has to qualify PQS 301(3M) and QA Craftsman (Also sometimes called QA 301).  I don't know if surface ships have to do the same, though I'm sure they have to qualify 3M PQS 301. 

    My take on this thread is that the original question left some of us thinking this guy must be pretty high on himself since he's in A school and acts like going enlisted is his back-up plan (My initial thought: "Dude you already made that decision!")  .  Quite frankly Cycoticpenguin, based on some of your questions and observations in other posts, I question the sageness of your advice/observations.  Sometimes the best way to learn is by observing and keeping our thoughts to ourselves.   

    I think everyone else is bashing each other for the perceived tone of the responses.  I doubt seriously there lots of enlisted guys who literally clean bilges for 60 hours a week every week.  It may seem like it sometimes, but that alone should not be the reason to go officer.  On some boats the officers help clean the bilges.  If you want to be an officer solely because it's better than being enlisted, then do so (or attempt to do so).  If you have such low opinion of enlisted men, how do you plan on leading them?  Throwing your collar devices around will get you so far, but in the end, the best officers are those who share a mutual respect with those who they lead, and I've seen or read very little of this in this thread.

   One last thought, if I had it to do over again, I would have applied for every officer program I was eligible for.  Somebody told me that once, but I was too smart for them.  Though I've had a pretty successful nuclear naval career, in the back of my mind I may have not maximized my potential.

[JustinHEMI05]

what are YOU talking about? Everyone on the ship has to qualify 3m/QA and craftsman.... and this guy obviously does not know his job (he's in a school). I learned more from talking to my chiefs in A school then I did from my instructors. (sometimes the same person )

He isn't talking about 3m.

Justin

[Loffy Muffin]

Gee, ask a simple question....which is better ogang/egang for commercial power?  this thread is comical.  Reminds me of that commercial where someone is choking and you have 10 knuckleheads discusing the different ways to clear the throat and one guy does it while you have 10 people bickering.

Straight up, the LT with an engineer degree and 5 years in the Navy is going to be hired over an E-5/6 getting out at the 6year point but....There should be jobs for the 6 and splitters.....so:

...its not worth the extra commitment required to get the paid for degree and come back to uncle sam for the payback as an officer. You'll have 12 long years invested for that degree.  Six and split, if you are alright with commercial ops. This assumes, and it is a safe assumption, that the demand for commercial operators will continue in the future and will be there in 2012 when you get out.  They should just be building plants by then and need people to train to operate them.  You should be set up nice.  You can go to the interview and ask them why you should consider taking their training and 6 figure salary when you have so many others that are demanding your services.   Or you can go officer and just be getting out of engineering school (at best) and looking at 5 more years in the Navy at ensign pay. 

Is the freaking horse dead yet?

[Gamecock]

Gee, ask a simple question....which is better ogang/egang for commercial power?  this thread is comical.  Reminds me of that commercial where someone is choking and you have 10 knuckleheads discusing the different ways to clear the throat and one guy does it while you have 10 people bickering.

Straight up, the LT with an engineer degree and 5 years in the Navy is going to be hired over an E-5/6 getting out at the 6year point but....There should be jobs for the 6 and splitters.....so:

...its not worth the extra commitment required to get the paid for degree and come back to uncle sam for the payback as an officer. You'll have 12 long years invested for that degree.  Six and split, if you are alright with commercial ops. This assumes, and it is a safe assumption, that the demand for commercial operators will continue in the future and will be there in 2012 when you get out.  They should just be building plants by then and need people to train to operate them.  You should be set up nice.  You can go to the interview and ask them why you should consider taking their training and 6 figure salary when you have so many others that are demanding your services.   Or you can go officer and just be getting out of engineering school (at best) and looking at 5 more years in the Navy at ensign pay. 

Is the freaking horse dead yet?

Don't forget those years of college count towards retirement!!!

5 Years of Ensign pay? 
2 years of O1E pay, 2 years of O2E pay, 1 year of O3E pay....

Decide to stay in at this point....
O3E pay...+25K/yr nuke bonus..that equates to more then $100K/yr

Now the other part that your missing is the other opportunities that are there for your taking as a nuclear trained officer.  I got a Masters degree in Engineering Management from Old Dominion University for next to nothing.  All nuke officers can do this!!

Now I'm getting a masters degree in Nuclear Engineering from MIT..paid for by your tax dollars....thanks to the navy.

There are other programs out there....chances to get MBA's from Harvard or other extremely prestigious universities.  What will your starting salary be after getting an MBA from Harvard???  As an officer, you will get a master's degree...maybe even multiple masters degrees.

Bottom line....

Stay navy...get commissioned.....retire...gua ranteed income for life...then move on!!!  Start a second career while your still young and viable.

And the best part...the part you can't put a price tag on...the opportunity to lead the best and brightest that this country has to offer. 

[ddklbl]

I got a Masters degree in Engineering Management from Old Dominion University for next to nothing.  All nukes can do this!!

To get accepted through the Navy College Program, only those that are graduates of Officer NPS are eligible.  Well, eligible for the 12 credit hour waiver. 

This is a snippet from an email I dug up in my outlook archive

Your message was forwarded to me for reply.  I've attached a summary of our program guide which should answer your question.  The admissions requirements for the CD-Rom option are straightforward.  For a student to be awarded the 12 credit hours of advanced standing for he Navy's asynchronous program, graduation from the Officer Nuclear Power pipeline is a requirement.  This is because the officer program is the only curriculum that has been reviewed and certified for transfer credit toward the Master of Engineering Management Program. 

But, yes. I agree. There are many opportunities available, otherwise.

[sfrederick]

You're right, you're a NUB who knows nothing about nuclear power, I'm a former ELT who somehow has managed to obtain 3 license from the NRC. In about 15 to 18 months you'll be qualified to comment.

QA and ELT are not related, they are totally different functions.

Mike

I apologize for the confusion.  I want to be an ELT in the Navy, then change careers and do QA in the civilian sector.  I wouldn't want to be an ELT for too long; might become a rageaholic.
Now, I started with a reasonable question and I did my best to answer the questions that were asked of me afterwards (which admittedly, I wasn't prepared to answer).  If my answer to the question had any consequence other than Broadzilla's misplaced rage, I would have said that I really don't know (rather than trying to start somewhere).
As for applying for an officer package being a "bother", I already plan on staying enlisted.  I didn't enlist as a back-up plan--I already made my choice.  My intent in starting this thread was to gather the last bit of information I wanted to rule out the officer program (because I don't plan on retiring from the Navy).  Thank you for your time.

[JustinHEMI05]

I apologize for the confusion.  I want to be an ELT in the Navy, then change careers and do QA in the civilian sector.  I wouldn't want to be an ELT for too long; might become a rageaholic.
Now, I started with a reasonable question and I did my best to answer the questions that were asked of me afterwards (which admittedly, I wasn't prepared to answer).  If my answer to the question had any consequence other than Broadzilla's misplaced rage, I would have said that I really don't know (rather than trying to start somewhere).
As for applying for an officer package being a "bother", I already plan on staying enlisted.  I didn't enlist as a back-up plan--I already made my choice.  My intent in starting this thread was to gather the last bit of information I wanted to rule out the officer program (because I don't plan on retiring from the Navy).  Thank you for your time.

You didn't do anything wrong. Sometimes people take things the wrong way. Just look at this thread. Welcome, congrats, and good luck.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh pish posh, I know exactly what I took offense to, a NUB posting something, then saying that he didn't really know to begin with. If he didn't know to begin with he shouldn't have posted.

As for Cycotic, he's a NUB too. When he gets qualified the other NUBs should pay attention, until then well you know!!

Mike

Mike,

I missed this one. Come on Mike, you know its not YOU that I was referring to when I said that someone didn't know what they were taking offense too. Of course it was the nub bashing nub.

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

He isn't talking about 3m.

Justin

QAI? Thats the only other thing I can think of. In that case its definently not ELT exclusive. Im confused what he's assuming ELT's have that MM's dont (besides that C school of course).

SubNukederek and Broadzilla - I give advice based on my experience through the pipeline. I personally feel that I give the freshest, unbiased opinions on things that go on. While I am wrong sometimes (I am first to admit it!), I believe that while, YES I am "nub" (kind of, Im not going to get any steaming watches in the ship yard anyway), I still am knowledgable enough to help young sailors make decisions to better themselves. If telling people to talk to their khaki's to pick their brain is "misguidance", Im sorry...

[JustinHEMI05]

QAI? Thats the only other thing I can think of. In that case its definently not ELT exclusive. Im confused what he's assuming ELT's have that MM's dont (besides that C school of course).

SubNukederek and Broadzilla - I give advice based on my experience through the pipeline. I personally feel that I give the freshest, unbiased opinions on things that go on. While I am wrong sometimes (I am first to admit it!), I believe that while, YES I am "nub" (kind of, Im not going to get any steaming watches in the ship yard anyway), I still am knowledgable enough to help young sailors make decisions to better themselves. If telling people to talk to their khaki's to pick their brain is "misguidance", Im sorry...

The simple fact of the matter is, as illustrated by this post, that you don't know your place.

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

The simple fact of the matter is, as illustrated by this post, that you don't know your place.

Justin

can you elaborate please? Im more confused then anything.

[taterhead]

I think everyone here is ready for spring!!!!  Cabin fever is getting to us....

[JustinHEMI05]

can you elaborate please? Im more confused then anything.

See your PM.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

I think everyone here is ready for spring!!!!  Cabin fever is getting to us....

No kidding! I was finally able to get out riding last week and it was sorely needed! We should have a nukeworker.com meet and greet sometime that way we can all drink and fight together

Justin

[PapaBear765]

No kidding! I was finally able to get out riding last week and it was sorely needed! We should have a nukeworker.com meet and greet sometime that way we can all drink and fight together

Justin

A get-together???  It would resemble that scene from Eurotrip in the English pub, only with a lot more swearing and yelling....great idea!

[Fermi2]

LOL a get together would be great. I bet I'm the only one there who tells the truth 100% of the time. NO "This is a no shitter" stories coming from me.
























Honest!!!!


Mike

[DDMurray]

SubNukederek and Broadzilla - I give advice based on my experience through the pipeline. I personally feel that I give the freshest, unbiased opinions on things that go on. While I am wrong sometimes (I am first to admit it!), I believe that while, YES I am "nub" (kind of, I'm not going to get any steaming watches in the ship yard anyway), I still am knowledgable enough to help young sailors make decisions to better themselves. If telling people to talk to their khaki's to pick their brain is "misguidance", I'm sorry...

Cycoticpenguin,
I recognize you give advice based on your experiences.  Telling someone to talk to a Chief is the wisest advice you could give; but based on several of your posts in other threads, it appears to me that you asked questions in nukeworker vice talking to your Chief or any Chief on several occasions.  If somebody asks the value of an officer program who can best answer that question:
1. Someone who has taken that route?
2. Someone who has many years of experience working with officers and enlisted in several different work environments?
3. Someone who just finished school and has limited or zero at sea nuclear operator experience?
4. Someone who has no navy nuclear experience whatsoever?
5. Someone who loves the navy?
6. Someone who hates the navy?

My point is if somebody asked a question on transitioning from pipeline to a boat in shipyard, you'd have a fresh, knowledgeable perspective.  If someone asks a question that has ramifications many years from now, who is better?  You can disagree with my recommendations, but I doubt the perspective of someone who's never stood a watch on an operational ship or applied to an officer program adds much value to the discussion.  I wish you nothing but the best, but I stick by my original post. 

Derek Murray
- Boot Camp and EM A school Great Lakes (had to graduate top half of class to continue on to nuke school, waiverable)
- NPS class 8502, S3G prototype
- USS CASIMIR PULASKI SSBN 633B(Charleston, SC, refitted in Kings Bay, GA) (qualified EWS, served as ELPO by end of tour)
- NPS staff (Orlando, FL)(Section Advisor, Instructor, earned Bachelor's degree, advanced to CPO)
- USS HAWKBILL (Pearl Harbor, HI)(ELCPO, 2 Westpacs, 1 Eastpac, 3 month availability in PSNS, qualified Chief of the Watch, Diving Officer of the Watch)
- NNPTC, Orlando - moved to Charleston (Instructor)
- PCU/USS JIMMY CARTER (Initial manning, advanced to SCPO, TAD as hot fill for six month Iraqi Freedom deployment, Advanced to MCPO, did all power range testing and acceptance sea trials, took ship to Bangor, WA)
- COMSUBRON FOUR EDMC (Have had the honor of riding 3 different classes of SSN's: S6W, S6G, S9G)

[Cycoticpenguin]

Cycoticpenguin,
I recognize you give advice based on your experiences.  Telling someone to talk to a Chief is the wisest advice you could give; but based on several of your posts in other threads, it appears to me that you asked questions in nukeworker vice talking to your Chief or any Chief on several occasions.  If somebody asks the value of an officer program who can best answer that question:
1. Someone who has taken that route?
2. Someone who has many years of experience working with officers and enlisted in several different work environments?
3. Someone who just finished school and has limited or zero at sea nuclear operator experience?
4. Someone who has no navy nuclear experience whatsoever?
5. Someone who loves the navy?
6. Someone who hates the navy?

My point is if somebody asked a question on transitioning from pipeline to a boat in shipyard, you'd have a fresh, knowledgeable perspective.  If someone asks a question that has ramifications many years from now, who is better?  You can disagree with my recommendations, but I doubt the perspective of someone who's never stood a watch on an operational ship or applied to an officer program adds much value to the discussion.  I wish you nothing but the best, but I stick by my original post. 

I understand. I never thought of it like that. As well, honestly, I come to you guys a lot of the time first, because I know none of you are scared to  give me the straight up, honest answer (not to mention being a chief/officer yourselves). Its a huge reason while I still pester you guys That said, I care about my junior shipmates, and I want them to make the best decisions for themselves. For now and the future.

[Ranger88]

Just some observations of the differences while in the Navy and the effect after the Navy from someone who has done both.
-Decide early on to either stay in the Navy 20 years and go as far as you can, Officer if possible or;
-Get out ASAP to start your next career ASAP, If you have a short term goal, EWS? then get it and get out.

Why go Officer?
- Show me the money! After 20 years retiring as a LCDR, CDR, CAPT you will make more money for waking up and breathing each day than your starting salary will be as an unlicensed operator, if this forum is true. Not to mention the medical benefits.  Yes, you should be able to get a better job than a NLO but it appears that starting as a NLO is the gateway to bigger and better things in the commercial field.

Why get out ASAP?
- Staying in longer than your first 6 years will be of little benefit in commercial nuclear power, just read this forum.

As an enlisted nuke EWS I was always frustrated at the incompetence of the JOs standing EOOW. As the EWS you are never really "In-charge".

After getting commissioned as an LDO, I immediately went to a surface ship and qualified/stood EOOW.  One of the few things I did as a JO that gave me some job satisfaction was standing a competent watch as EOOW.  After my first ORSE as EOOW, the CO asked me how I could get the best drill grade on the hardest drill and get the lowest written exam score.
I did not answer, I just shrugged. The truth was that as the newest qualified EOOW I was the sacrificial anode on the written exam. I can't believe I just said that.  But it is the truth just the same.  I can't imagine things have changed much.

I have worked with some really great enlisted people and officers.  The bashing of the leadership abilities of navy people is not justified in my opinion.  I have worked in the civilian world for 2 years and most prior navy nukes are Gods compared to the average idiot walking the street.

So I am trying to decide what I want to do, use my experience to get the best non-nuke job I can, which is the easy way out, and most likely will make bigger cash or;
Start at the bottom of commercial OPS and work my way up. I love OPS, but it is still a tough decision.

"You can never really be happy unless you are good at what you do"

What ever you do, do it to the very best of your ability because it will affect your future, good or bad.

[PapaBear765]

Cycoticpenguin,
Telling someone to talk to a Chief is the wisest advice you could give

Laughing.....10 minutes later, laughing.....

[JustinHEMI05]

Laughing.....10 minutes later, laughing.....

Sorry to hear your poor opinion of Chiefs.  Good luck in Civlant.
BTW, your previous bashing of NY NPTU CMC is uncalled for.  He is truly trying to do right by the staff and the program.  Let me reply for you:

Laughing.....10 minutes later, laughing.....

Really? Maybe he should tell the crew that.

Justin

[PapaBear765]

I did not answer, I just shrugged. The truth was that as the newest qualified EOOW I was the sacrificial anode on the written exam. I can't believe I just said that.  But it is the truth just the same.  I can't imagine things have changed much.

No they sure haven't changed.  The requirements are still the same: "if exam scores are consistently high, then it's more probable that the exams are too easy and not that the operators know the material."  Maybe it shouldn't be in quotes, I can't remember the exact words but the meaning is exactly accurate.

The sacrificial anodes are habitually used, and they're not the ones from the Supply system.