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Offline 93-383

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Did/do you regret getting out
« on: Apr 22, 2008, 02:24 »
This question is primarily directed to those who got out of the Navy after 9+ years and went into civilian work. Around the time you would have reached 20 and retired from the Navy did you regret getting out?

Like many I am faced with the very hard decision at nearly my 10 year point to stay in or get out. I have weighed the pros and cons of both sides and have made somewhat of a decision.  But I can’t help but wonder am I going to kick my self in 10 years because I passed up on a pension and medical benefits for life.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #1 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:33 »
Let's see. I've made about 123456900988765 more dollars than I woul;d have had I stayed in, and that includes and potential earnings from retirement. I've done it working less hours. I've seen considerably more of both my babies lives than I would have had I stayed in. And as a whole, I work with better people.

So yeah I regret getting out. !! LOL

Mike

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #2 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:38 »
Consider the following...................


So let's take an example of an E-7 with 20 years of service. He entered service in 1984, so he's under the High-3 plan. His average basic pay over the past three years is $3,342 per month, and 50 percent of that average equals a retirement pension of $1,671 per month, or $20,052 per year.

For an E-7 who has been in the military for 26 years, retirement is calculated under High 3.  This calculation is 2.5 percent of basic pay for each of his 26 years of service, or 65 percent of his annual basic pay at the time of retirement. At current pay rates, he makes $3,855 per month, or $46,260 per year, so the pension for that E-7 retiring after 26 years of service is $30,069 per year.

Since most civilian workers today do not have pensions, they must save enough during their working years to give them a monthly income in retirement that will last their lifetime. Here's an idea of what you would have to do on your own to replace your military pension's value:

• You would have to calculate how much you would need to retire at age 65 or earlier and manage your retirement account so that it increased to this amount while you are on active duty.

• You would have to maintain your retirement kitty after you retire and invest it so that you have a monthly income.

Military pensions are guaranteed, but managing your money to create your own pension is not. Military pensions also are adjusted each year for inflation, although the adjustment is often less than the actual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index.

So, going back to the E-7 with 20 years of service, what is his military pension of $20,052 per year really worth? Most experts agree that to ensure your retirement funds will last a lifetime, you cannot take out more than 4 percent of your capital each year. If you wish to increase your retirement income each year to keep up with inflation, a 3 percent withdrawal from capital each year is a more reasonable figure. To replace an annual pension of $20,052 based on a 3 percent withdrawal rate, you'd need $668,400 ($20,052 divided by 0.03 equals $668,400).

What is the possibility of accumulating $668,400 over 20 years on your present salary? Even if you assume you can take out 4 percent of your nest egg each year and not use up your money in your lifetime, you'd still need a nest egg of more than $500,000, without allowing for annual increases for inflation.

A pension of $30,069 per year would probably require $1,000,230 in retirement savings.

It is possible to purchase a retirement annuity for you and your spouse with your retirement nest egg. This would give you guaranteed income for life, but it would not increase each year to adjust for inflation. So in 36 years at 2 percent inflation, your money would be worth half as much and your lifestyle in retirement would decline.

Bottom line: A military pension is a very valuable benefit. If you had to save the money to provide your own pension, you would need at least $668,400 to create a pension of $20,055 per year adjusted for inflation. And the continued payment of the monthly pension would depend on the performance of your investments.
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2008, 09:52 by Gamecock »
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #3 on: Apr 22, 2008, 10:23 »

B******T!!!!!!!

Ask all the "lifers" who were RIF'ed out during the 1990's how guaranteed and faithful the government was to their plans to put in 20+ and have a guaranteed retirement,...

Needs of the NAVY!!!!!!!!

If you make 20 years, your retirement is guaranteed. 

The only issue I see with the military retirement system these days is the increases in Tricare premiums each year.  That being said, I still believe that our retirement benefits are better then any place else. 

I've never met anyone who has done the time and retired who regretted it.  I have however met several folks who wished they had not pulled chocks and moved on.  I'm happy all you guys are doing well, because staying in isn't for everyone.  Its good for the young guys to see that you can move on and be successful on the outside.  But, I'd be willing to bet the view from your world is a bit biased because of your success.  The guys who didn't make it in the outside nuclear world don't have the luxury of sitting at a keyboard expounding on the virtues of life outside the canoe club.

V/R
Diggit Lifer
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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #4 on: Apr 22, 2008, 11:23 »
If you make 20 years, your retirement is guaranteed. 

The only issue I see with the military retirement system these days is the increases in Tricare premiums each year.  That being said, I still believe that our retirement benefits are better then any place else. 

I've never met anyone who has done the time and retired who regretted it.  I have however met several folks who wished they had not pulled chocks and moved on.  I'm happy all you guys are doing well, because staying in isn't for everyone.  Its good for the young guys to see that you can move on and be successful on the outside.  But, I'd be willing to bet the view from your world is a bit biased because of your success.  The guys who didn't make it in the outside nuclear world don't have the luxury of sitting at a keyboard expounding on the virtues of life outside the canoe club.

V/R
Diggit Lifer

And as a shocker, I somewhat agree with you. I have always said to guys that are trying to make this decision "it depends on what you want to do outside." Because like you said, there are many many 10 year navy nukes getting out with the attitude "I don't want anything to do with nuke power." Those guys probably aren't ever going to do as well as those of us who are hackers and see that commercial nuke power isn't navy nuke power. (Probably is the operative word there. I don't need examples of the 6 and outter who is making a million dollars a year doing something else. There are always exceptions to the rule.) So... in my opinion... if they are getting out with the intentions of going into commercial nuke power (or some other industry that provides the monetary benefit of commercial nuke power) they by all means, get out. If however, they have no clue what they want to do but they know they don't want / can't get commercial nuke power, then might as well be safe and hack it till the end. There just isn't much else out there that will provide the job stability and monetary gain of commercial nuke power. Guys also shouldn't use the "guaranteed job" as an excuse to reenlist, either. Mike and the others may back me up on this, but as far as I can tell, it is very rare for a commercial nuke to get fired. They certainly don't get downsized or laid off. Even if a guy isn't doing so well, they often find another position where he can be successful. The only firings I have heard of so far in my limited experience, are those who were grossly negligent in some respect. I personally know several guys who's wives talked them into reenlisting because of the "guaranteed job."

Justin
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2008, 11:37 by JustinHEMI »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #5 on: Apr 22, 2008, 11:35 »
Oh I forgot to answer your question. :)

No, I do not regret getting out. I will more than make up for any lost navy retirement in my approximate 30 year career in commercial nuke. Right now, I am putting away about 1/3 of my salary in different investments. I feel pretty dang good about the future.

Justin

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #6 on: Apr 22, 2008, 12:15 »
I just passed the "would've had 20 years in" point last year.  I gave it some thought.  Here are some of my conclusions.

1)  ENJOY WHAT YOU DO!!!  No amount of money is worth not enjoying your life.  If you enjoy being in the Navy, stay in the Navy.  If you hate being in the Navy, get out.  Money's just money.  You'll find a way to spend or save based on what you make.

2)  I personally think that you have more civilian management options open to you by not putting 20 years in.  You're not some 40 year old dude who's never worked anywhere but in the Navy.  I think maybe it's a perception thing, both by you and the people you meet.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but at 30, you're still young enough to take some chances with your career. 

3)  From what I've seen, the Navy ages you hard.  At 40, you look 50.  At 50, you look 70.

4)  Look at the hours you'll work in the Navy, 24 hour days, weekend duty days, six months at Sea.  You could work two full-time civilian jobs and have more free time.

5)  Exactly how much do you enjoy spending time with your wife and kids [if you're married]?

As a civilian you can do external consulting, work second jobs, or just get paid for overtime, and make more money than a Navy retirement check will bring you.  Of course, you get paid the retirement for doing nothing [once you've earned it], but the question is, "Do you ever plan on doing nothing?"  If so, and you're going to move somewhere where you can live on that kind of money, then maybe it's not a bad plan [assuming that you don't die of a heart attack six months after you retire].  If you like what you do, then that's better than getting paid to do nothing, which brings us back to ENJOY WHAT YOU DO.  No I don't regret getting out, but for those who enjoy the Navy, I don't think that it's stupid staying in.  It's stupid doing things because you're afraid that you'll be missing out otherwise.

MGM

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #7 on: Apr 22, 2008, 12:18 »
I just passed the "would've had 20 years in" point last year.  I gave it some thought.  Here are some of my conclusions.

1)  ENJOY WHAT YOU DO!!!  No amount of money is worth not enjoying your life.  If you enjoy being in the Navy, stay in the Navy.  If you hate being in the Navy, get out.  Money's just money.  You'll find a way to spend or save based on what you make.

2)  I personally think that you have more civilian management options open to you by not putting 20 years in.  You're not some 40 year old dude who's never worked anywhere but in the Navy.  I think maybe it's a perception thing, both by you and the people you meet.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but at 30, you're still young enough to take some chances with your career. 

3)  From what I've seen, the Navy ages you hard.  At 40, you look 50.  At 50, you look 70.

4)  Look at the hours you'll work in the Navy, 24 hour days, weekend duty days, six months at Sea.  You could work two full-time civilian jobs and have more free time.

5)  Exactly how much do you enjoy spending time with your wife and kids [if you're married]?

As a civilian you can do external consulting, work second jobs, or just get paid for overtime, and make more money than a Navy retirement check will bring you.  Of course, you get paid the retirement for doing nothing [once you've earned it], but the question is, "Do you ever plan on doing nothing?"  If so, and you're going to move somewhere where you can live on that kind of money, then maybe it's not a bad plan [assuming that you don't die of a heart attack six months after you retire].  If you like what you do, then that's better than getting paid to do nothing, which brings us back to ENJOY WHAT YOU DO.  No I don't regret getting out, but for those who enjoy the Navy, I don't think that it's stupid staying in.  It's stupid doing things because you're afraid that you'll be missing out otherwise.

MGM

Nice post. Karma to ya. By the way, I am running out of popcorn fast with all of these popcorn inducing threads floating around.  :P

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #8 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:10 »
Well if you are just concerned with earing potential here is a small tidbit for you....

Every year the Navy Times puts out an article comparing Civilian jobs to Navy jobs.  For a long time they didn't bother comparing nukes.  One year they finally did compare a Navy nuke to a Civilian nuke.  I might be a little off with the numbers, but if I remember right.

Navy Nuclear Machinist's Mate 80k+ a year
Civilain Nuclear power plant operator 75K+

On first glance it looks like the Navy is the better deal, but upon closer look one would notice that the Navy person in question is actually a SCPO with at least 14 years in.  The Civie(I believe) would have been starting out or a few years experience but NO WHERE NEAR 14 years in.  I don't work in the commercial field but I am sure that after 14 years that you would be making a lot more than 80K+ a year.
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DSO

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #9 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:36 »
Yea--and how many friggin hrs is that SCPO working??  The Naval propaganda machine needs to let the public know that you are working many 80-100 hr weeks with "0" overtime pay. You could make a base pay of $12/hr and make 80k/yr (like the SCPO)with as many hrs as the Navy slaves you as a legal indentured servant.

Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #10 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:49 »
This should be a no-brainer. Be home every night and watch your kids grow up or do 6-9 month deployments every year.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #11 on: Apr 22, 2008, 02:55 »
I'm seventeen years past the mark of what would have been my retirement. It came and went without a thought. My reasons for getting out were the same as many others, family. The only thing I have a tinge of regret about, is when I was approached about the Naval Academy, I declined to even look into it. It looked like four more years of bootcamp to a young man from a blue collar background, and the officers were THEY/THEM. I am a member of a veterans group with one termer's and lifers and they all seem happy with the decision they made one way or the other.

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #12 on: Apr 22, 2008, 03:01 »
Civilian Nuclear power plant operator 75K+

On first glance it looks like the Navy is the better deal, but upon closer look one would notice that the Navy person in question is actually a SCPO with at least 14 years in.  The Civie(I believe) would have been starting out or a few years experience but NO WHERE NEAR 14 years in.  I don't work in the commercial field but I am sure that after 14 years that you would be making a lot more than 80K+ a year.

From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 
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mlslstephens

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #13 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:07 »
This question is primarily directed to those who got out of the Navy after 9+ years and went into civilian work. Around the time you would have reached 20 and retired from the Navy did you regret getting out?

Like many I am faced with the very hard decision at nearly my 10 year point to stay in or get out. I have weighed the pros and cons of both sides and have made somewhat of a decision.  But I can't help but wonder am I going to kick my self in 10 years because I passed up on a pension and medical benefits for life.

93,
I am not the targeted audience of your question; originally, I wasn't going to respond to the question because I wasn't the focal point.  However, I rethought my decision about responding. 

Note: This post is not intended to be persuasive or evoke arguments.  It is only one man's retrospective opinion.

I've spent many hours on the back porch sipping a cup of Java wondering what my life would have been like if I would have left the Navy after my first enlistment.  This was the plan when I entered and I really thought I would stick to the plan until my first CO talked me into going to shore duty by leaving the boat early.  As I checked into NFAS as an instructor, I was sure that I only had three more years until I got out.  Then a year later I decided to give the Enlisted Commissioning Program one shot...who knew I would be accepted. Okay, I'm not going through my entire career, but here are my thoughts.  When my wife and I talk about what it might have been like, money is never the focal point of our discussion. Rather, we talk about our experiences that we have shared while being in the Navy.  Our conversation always comes back to where our kids were born, the places we visited and the places the Navy has sent us.  Yes, there are the topics of sea duty and the birthdays I've missed as well.  Life is made up of good times, bad times, happy times and sad times.  Life isn't a destination; but rather a journey.
The constant in our life is each other.  We know that life would have been different had we kept to our original plans and left the Navy after six years or even eight years but what we don't know is if life would have been better. 
Would I have more money in the bank if I had left the Navy earlier?  Who knows.  Would I have been able to attend my oldest daughters' fifth birthday party?  Probably.  Would my daughter still run out to the driveway and kiss me goodbye even when I'm only going to the store to get milk because she understands the privilege of life and that we aren't promised tomorrow?  I don't know.
Here is what I do know for sure.  My wife and I have enjoyed the last 19 years together as a couple and I have enjoyed the last 22 years as a Sailor.  I think I would have enjoyed my life if I would have left the service 16 years ago as well...because I love life.

So, I think everyone of us is right about our views on whether or not we regret our decisions.  It is a personal choice.

BTW, you are all welcome to attend my retirement ceremony on May 2.  :P

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #14 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:30 »
From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 

X2. With my EO buddies talking about paying off FICA around September you know they ain't doing too bad just a few years out of the navy.

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #15 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:38 »
From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 

Thank you for emphasizing my point.

Now on the flip side of this.  There are a lot of things that, believe it or not, I actually miss about being in the Navy.  The guys I worked with day in and day out, going places that I would have never seen otherwise, heck even some aspects of being underway(drinking the water, seeing the sun rise over the open ocean, even drills).  Having said all that, now that I have a wife and kid I just could not fathom not being home for 6 months at a time and missing special events.  There are days that I think about going back in, but it is only because I have forgotten all the awful times that I had during my 8 years.  Do I regret getting out at 8+?  Not at all.  Do I wish that I could go back and not join up to begin with? Never, would't trade those times for anything. 
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I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #16 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:59 »
Looking back I know I would have made much more money had  left around the 10 year mark.

But I dont think Id be half the person I am now without that extra time in.  I know I also missed the "Hey Days" in the 80s.... but I have a host of friends and memories that few would ever experience without my canoe club time.

 BTW I still have a LONG way to go to be that person I want to become.... but I still hope I can befriend a few of you folks along the way  (I dont mind bribing with food either ). ;D

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #17 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:02 »
Right now, I am putting away about 1/3 of my salary in different investments. I feel pretty dang good about the future.


Excellent point... in the civilian investment vs. military retirement comparison, your survivors will receive all of your annuity and other investments that were competing with/surpassing the 20+ yr military retirement checks. Additionally, civilians have the ability to steer towards non-US dollar denominated investments. Military retirement pay is always going to be paid in depreciating US dollars.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #18 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:48 »
Consider the following...................


So let's take an example of an E-7 with 20 years of service. He entered service in 1984, so he's under the High-3 plan. His average basic pay over the past three years is $3,342 per month, and 50 percent of that average equals a retirement pension of $1,671 per month, or $20,052 per year.

For an E-7 who has been in the military for 26 years, retirement is calculated under High 3.  This calculation is 2.5 percent of basic pay for each of his 26 years of service, or 65 percent of his annual basic pay at the time of retirement. At current pay rates, he makes $3,855 per month, or $46,260 per year, so the pension for that E-7 retiring after 26 years of service is $30,069 per year.

Since most civilian workers today do not have pensions, they must save enough during their working years to give them a monthly income in retirement that will last their lifetime. Here's an idea of what you would have to do on your own to replace your military pension's value:

• You would have to calculate how much you would need to retire at age 65 or earlier and manage your retirement account so that it increased to this amount while you are on active duty.

• You would have to maintain your retirement kitty after you retire and invest it so that you have a monthly income.

Military pensions are guaranteed, but managing your money to create your own pension is not. Military pensions also are adjusted each year for inflation, although the adjustment is often less than the actual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index.

So, going back to the E-7 with 20 years of service, what is his military pension of $20,052 per year really worth? Most experts agree that to ensure your retirement funds will last a lifetime, you cannot take out more than 4 percent of your capital each year. If you wish to increase your retirement income each year to keep up with inflation, a 3 percent withdrawal from capital each year is a more reasonable figure. To replace an annual pension of $20,052 based on a 3 percent withdrawal rate, you'd need $668,400 ($20,052 divided by 0.03 equals $668,400).

What is the possibility of accumulating $668,400 over 20 years on your present salary? Even if you assume you can take out 4 percent of your nest egg each year and not use up your money in your lifetime, you'd still need a nest egg of more than $500,000, without allowing for annual increases for inflation.

A pension of $30,069 per year would probably require $1,000,230 in retirement savings.

It is possible to purchase a retirement annuity for you and your spouse with your retirement nest egg. This would give you guaranteed income for life, but it would not increase each year to adjust for inflation. So in 36 years at 2 percent inflation, your money would be worth half as much and your lifestyle in retirement would decline.

Bottom line: A military pension is a very valuable benefit. If you had to save the money to provide your own pension, you would need at least $668,400 to create a pension of $20,055 per year adjusted for inflation. And the continued payment of the monthly pension would depend on the performance of your investments.


OR I can get out at 6, become an Entry Level Operator. And make the equivalent of what you just described in my first 5 to 5.5 years so after 11.5 years in the industry, counting my Navy Time I'll have equaled your 20 and the next 9 years is gravy.

From someone who has done that, AND I am NOT the first.

3600 a is about 2/3 of what a good SRO makes in a PAY period.

Mike

LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #19 on: Apr 23, 2008, 07:57 »

OR I can get out at 6, become an Entry Level Operator. And make the equivalent of what you just described in my first 5 to 5.5 years so after 11.5 years in the industry, counting my Navy Time I'll have equaled your 20 and the next 9 years is gravy.

From someone who has done that, AND I am NOT the first.

3600 a is about 2/3 of what a good SRO makes in a PAY period.

Mike

Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.

But I still think the biggest part for me was the experience.   Dont get me wrong - more money is mo money (and thats allways good), but I would have missed out on a lifetime of memories for an exchange of just 10 years of civie life.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #20 on: Apr 23, 2008, 08:17 »
Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.


Yes but I have also found that you get what you pay for with Military Medical.  Just before I got out, I had  back problems.  Every time I went to medical they said it was a pulled muscle, gave me muscle relaxers, and told me not to stand more than 8 hours of watch.  This happend about 4 times then finally I was out of the area and had a back issue come up, went to the emergency room(I could not even stand up straight) come to find out that it was a moderately herniated L5S1 Disc.  Did some physical therapy and it got better.  Started playing softball to drop a few pounds to help, ended up destroying my knee.  Instead of sending me for an MRI to see if I actually tore anything, they gave me a brace and gave me LIMDU for a week.  When it popped out of place again, they sent me for an MRI 2 months later then found out that I had a Torn ACL, Torn MCL, bone contusion, and a host of other things.  Sent me to Physical therapy, and kept giving me the run around about getting it fixed.  Finally said they were going to do surgery but I had a month left before EAOS.  I had already put down an offer on my house, accepted a job, etc and if I would have had the surgery I would have been stuck in for another 9 months.

I would much rather pay for medical insurance that if I feel they aren't taking care of me that I can switch doctors and if they royally screw up, I have legal recourse against them. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #21 on: Apr 23, 2008, 10:34 »
Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.

But I still think the biggest part for me was the experience.   Dont get me wrong - more money is mo money (and thats allways good), but I would have missed out on a lifetime of memories for an exchange of just 10 years of civie life.

I made the best of my time in and had a lot of good memories, but my time out is a lot better. I can't imagine all the things I would have missed had I stayed in. The medical issue is a toss up. Both have  pros and cons. I lean more toward civilian medical though. But I definitely get more than one opinion. I had back issues a few years ago with a herniated L5S1. One doctor wanted to do immediated spinal fusion with disc removal. I did my own research and found a doctor that corrected it non-invasively with outpatient surgery. No down time.

PapaBear765

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #22 on: Apr 23, 2008, 10:43 »
Yes but I have also found that you get what you pay for with Military Medical.  Just before I got out, I had  back problems.  Every time I went to medical they said it was a pulled muscle, gave me muscle relaxers, and told me not to stand more than 8 hours of watch.  This happend about 4 times then finally I was out of the area and had a back issue come up, went to the emergency room(I could not even stand up straight) come to find out that it was a moderately herniated L5S1 Disc.  Did some physical therapy and it got better.  Started playing softball to drop a few pounds to help, ended up destroying my knee.  Instead of sending me for an MRI to see if I actually tore anything, they gave me a brace and gave me LIMDU for a week.  When it popped out of place again, they sent me for an MRI 2 months later then found out that I had a Torn ACL, Torn MCL, bone contusion, and a host of other things.  Sent me to Physical therapy, and kept giving me the run around about getting it fixed.  Finally said they were going to do surgery but I had a month left before EAOS.  I had already put down an offer on my house, accepted a job, etc and if I would have had the surgery I would have been stuck in for another 9 months.

I would much rather pay for medical insurance that if I feel they aren't taking care of me that I can switch doctors and if they royally screw up, I have legal recourse against them. 


Not defending military medical because I have my own complaints, but what you describe and what most anyone else can describe is not unique to the military.  There just as many occasions of civilian medical incompetence as military ones.  So, you don't necessarily get what you pay for when it comes to medical.  With medical, you get out of what you put into it, i.e. do you own research and be able to ask intelligent, pertinent questions about your condition.  I've heard enough stories from people about how their affliction would have never been diagnosed if they themselves had not done some research and asked a critical question.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #23 on: Apr 23, 2008, 03:03 »
Yes but even if you do research it and know what it is, that doesn't mean that the IDC is going to listen to you.  My mother was a nurse for 20+ years and when I explained to her what my symptoms where, it was easily a sinus infection.  Go to medical and the IDC told me I had allergies.  Mind you I had never had allergies and when I told him this, he explained that sometimes they crop up when you move to a new place.  Told him that I had been living in SC for 2 years at that point.  He still said it was allergies and gave me a script for Claritin.  DID NOTHING.  Basically I had to wait it out until my body cleared it up on its own.  Had it been a civilian doctor I could have asked for a second opinion from someone who didn't work in the same office.  I dont' know what it is, but it seems that they must be told to treat just enough to get you out of their hair instead of finding out what the problem really is. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

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LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #24 on: Apr 23, 2008, 05:51 »
I understand the medical woes of In vs Out.  I suffered a back injury as well... got the muscle relaxer treatment.  I also got the put a patch on it after I blew out my left knee, this was the Captain med officer making the call.  After 6 weeks of suffering with the knee pains I got a second opinion (military at that)  This turned out to be a Lt {reserve} who all but chewed out the O6.   After the knee rebuild (Doc said only the skin was holding it together) and a minor ortho follow up, my left knee is now better than my right.

Not all of the military doctors mare top notch..... but some are.. and sometimes you get lucky

 


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