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Offline 93-383

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Did/do you regret getting out
« on: Apr 22, 2008, 02:24 »
This question is primarily directed to those who got out of the Navy after 9+ years and went into civilian work. Around the time you would have reached 20 and retired from the Navy did you regret getting out?

Like many I am faced with the very hard decision at nearly my 10 year point to stay in or get out. I have weighed the pros and cons of both sides and have made somewhat of a decision.  But I can’t help but wonder am I going to kick my self in 10 years because I passed up on a pension and medical benefits for life.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #1 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:33 »
Let's see. I've made about 123456900988765 more dollars than I woul;d have had I stayed in, and that includes and potential earnings from retirement. I've done it working less hours. I've seen considerably more of both my babies lives than I would have had I stayed in. And as a whole, I work with better people.

So yeah I regret getting out. !! LOL

Mike

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #2 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:38 »
Consider the following...................


So let's take an example of an E-7 with 20 years of service. He entered service in 1984, so he's under the High-3 plan. His average basic pay over the past three years is $3,342 per month, and 50 percent of that average equals a retirement pension of $1,671 per month, or $20,052 per year.

For an E-7 who has been in the military for 26 years, retirement is calculated under High 3.  This calculation is 2.5 percent of basic pay for each of his 26 years of service, or 65 percent of his annual basic pay at the time of retirement. At current pay rates, he makes $3,855 per month, or $46,260 per year, so the pension for that E-7 retiring after 26 years of service is $30,069 per year.

Since most civilian workers today do not have pensions, they must save enough during their working years to give them a monthly income in retirement that will last their lifetime. Here's an idea of what you would have to do on your own to replace your military pension's value:

• You would have to calculate how much you would need to retire at age 65 or earlier and manage your retirement account so that it increased to this amount while you are on active duty.

• You would have to maintain your retirement kitty after you retire and invest it so that you have a monthly income.

Military pensions are guaranteed, but managing your money to create your own pension is not. Military pensions also are adjusted each year for inflation, although the adjustment is often less than the actual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index.

So, going back to the E-7 with 20 years of service, what is his military pension of $20,052 per year really worth? Most experts agree that to ensure your retirement funds will last a lifetime, you cannot take out more than 4 percent of your capital each year. If you wish to increase your retirement income each year to keep up with inflation, a 3 percent withdrawal from capital each year is a more reasonable figure. To replace an annual pension of $20,052 based on a 3 percent withdrawal rate, you'd need $668,400 ($20,052 divided by 0.03 equals $668,400).

What is the possibility of accumulating $668,400 over 20 years on your present salary? Even if you assume you can take out 4 percent of your nest egg each year and not use up your money in your lifetime, you'd still need a nest egg of more than $500,000, without allowing for annual increases for inflation.

A pension of $30,069 per year would probably require $1,000,230 in retirement savings.

It is possible to purchase a retirement annuity for you and your spouse with your retirement nest egg. This would give you guaranteed income for life, but it would not increase each year to adjust for inflation. So in 36 years at 2 percent inflation, your money would be worth half as much and your lifestyle in retirement would decline.

Bottom line: A military pension is a very valuable benefit. If you had to save the money to provide your own pension, you would need at least $668,400 to create a pension of $20,055 per year adjusted for inflation. And the continued payment of the monthly pension would depend on the performance of your investments.
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2008, 09:52 by Gamecock »
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #3 on: Apr 22, 2008, 10:23 »

B******T!!!!!!!

Ask all the "lifers" who were RIF'ed out during the 1990's how guaranteed and faithful the government was to their plans to put in 20+ and have a guaranteed retirement,...

Needs of the NAVY!!!!!!!!

If you make 20 years, your retirement is guaranteed. 

The only issue I see with the military retirement system these days is the increases in Tricare premiums each year.  That being said, I still believe that our retirement benefits are better then any place else. 

I've never met anyone who has done the time and retired who regretted it.  I have however met several folks who wished they had not pulled chocks and moved on.  I'm happy all you guys are doing well, because staying in isn't for everyone.  Its good for the young guys to see that you can move on and be successful on the outside.  But, I'd be willing to bet the view from your world is a bit biased because of your success.  The guys who didn't make it in the outside nuclear world don't have the luxury of sitting at a keyboard expounding on the virtues of life outside the canoe club.

V/R
Diggit Lifer
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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #4 on: Apr 22, 2008, 11:23 »
If you make 20 years, your retirement is guaranteed. 

The only issue I see with the military retirement system these days is the increases in Tricare premiums each year.  That being said, I still believe that our retirement benefits are better then any place else. 

I've never met anyone who has done the time and retired who regretted it.  I have however met several folks who wished they had not pulled chocks and moved on.  I'm happy all you guys are doing well, because staying in isn't for everyone.  Its good for the young guys to see that you can move on and be successful on the outside.  But, I'd be willing to bet the view from your world is a bit biased because of your success.  The guys who didn't make it in the outside nuclear world don't have the luxury of sitting at a keyboard expounding on the virtues of life outside the canoe club.

V/R
Diggit Lifer

And as a shocker, I somewhat agree with you. I have always said to guys that are trying to make this decision "it depends on what you want to do outside." Because like you said, there are many many 10 year navy nukes getting out with the attitude "I don't want anything to do with nuke power." Those guys probably aren't ever going to do as well as those of us who are hackers and see that commercial nuke power isn't navy nuke power. (Probably is the operative word there. I don't need examples of the 6 and outter who is making a million dollars a year doing something else. There are always exceptions to the rule.) So... in my opinion... if they are getting out with the intentions of going into commercial nuke power (or some other industry that provides the monetary benefit of commercial nuke power) they by all means, get out. If however, they have no clue what they want to do but they know they don't want / can't get commercial nuke power, then might as well be safe and hack it till the end. There just isn't much else out there that will provide the job stability and monetary gain of commercial nuke power. Guys also shouldn't use the "guaranteed job" as an excuse to reenlist, either. Mike and the others may back me up on this, but as far as I can tell, it is very rare for a commercial nuke to get fired. They certainly don't get downsized or laid off. Even if a guy isn't doing so well, they often find another position where he can be successful. The only firings I have heard of so far in my limited experience, are those who were grossly negligent in some respect. I personally know several guys who's wives talked them into reenlisting because of the "guaranteed job."

Justin
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2008, 11:37 by JustinHEMI »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #5 on: Apr 22, 2008, 11:35 »
Oh I forgot to answer your question. :)

No, I do not regret getting out. I will more than make up for any lost navy retirement in my approximate 30 year career in commercial nuke. Right now, I am putting away about 1/3 of my salary in different investments. I feel pretty dang good about the future.

Justin

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #6 on: Apr 22, 2008, 12:15 »
I just passed the "would've had 20 years in" point last year.  I gave it some thought.  Here are some of my conclusions.

1)  ENJOY WHAT YOU DO!!!  No amount of money is worth not enjoying your life.  If you enjoy being in the Navy, stay in the Navy.  If you hate being in the Navy, get out.  Money's just money.  You'll find a way to spend or save based on what you make.

2)  I personally think that you have more civilian management options open to you by not putting 20 years in.  You're not some 40 year old dude who's never worked anywhere but in the Navy.  I think maybe it's a perception thing, both by you and the people you meet.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but at 30, you're still young enough to take some chances with your career. 

3)  From what I've seen, the Navy ages you hard.  At 40, you look 50.  At 50, you look 70.

4)  Look at the hours you'll work in the Navy, 24 hour days, weekend duty days, six months at Sea.  You could work two full-time civilian jobs and have more free time.

5)  Exactly how much do you enjoy spending time with your wife and kids [if you're married]?

As a civilian you can do external consulting, work second jobs, or just get paid for overtime, and make more money than a Navy retirement check will bring you.  Of course, you get paid the retirement for doing nothing [once you've earned it], but the question is, "Do you ever plan on doing nothing?"  If so, and you're going to move somewhere where you can live on that kind of money, then maybe it's not a bad plan [assuming that you don't die of a heart attack six months after you retire].  If you like what you do, then that's better than getting paid to do nothing, which brings us back to ENJOY WHAT YOU DO.  No I don't regret getting out, but for those who enjoy the Navy, I don't think that it's stupid staying in.  It's stupid doing things because you're afraid that you'll be missing out otherwise.

MGM

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #7 on: Apr 22, 2008, 12:18 »
I just passed the "would've had 20 years in" point last year.  I gave it some thought.  Here are some of my conclusions.

1)  ENJOY WHAT YOU DO!!!  No amount of money is worth not enjoying your life.  If you enjoy being in the Navy, stay in the Navy.  If you hate being in the Navy, get out.  Money's just money.  You'll find a way to spend or save based on what you make.

2)  I personally think that you have more civilian management options open to you by not putting 20 years in.  You're not some 40 year old dude who's never worked anywhere but in the Navy.  I think maybe it's a perception thing, both by you and the people you meet.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but at 30, you're still young enough to take some chances with your career. 

3)  From what I've seen, the Navy ages you hard.  At 40, you look 50.  At 50, you look 70.

4)  Look at the hours you'll work in the Navy, 24 hour days, weekend duty days, six months at Sea.  You could work two full-time civilian jobs and have more free time.

5)  Exactly how much do you enjoy spending time with your wife and kids [if you're married]?

As a civilian you can do external consulting, work second jobs, or just get paid for overtime, and make more money than a Navy retirement check will bring you.  Of course, you get paid the retirement for doing nothing [once you've earned it], but the question is, "Do you ever plan on doing nothing?"  If so, and you're going to move somewhere where you can live on that kind of money, then maybe it's not a bad plan [assuming that you don't die of a heart attack six months after you retire].  If you like what you do, then that's better than getting paid to do nothing, which brings us back to ENJOY WHAT YOU DO.  No I don't regret getting out, but for those who enjoy the Navy, I don't think that it's stupid staying in.  It's stupid doing things because you're afraid that you'll be missing out otherwise.

MGM

Nice post. Karma to ya. By the way, I am running out of popcorn fast with all of these popcorn inducing threads floating around.  :P

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #8 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:10 »
Well if you are just concerned with earing potential here is a small tidbit for you....

Every year the Navy Times puts out an article comparing Civilian jobs to Navy jobs.  For a long time they didn't bother comparing nukes.  One year they finally did compare a Navy nuke to a Civilian nuke.  I might be a little off with the numbers, but if I remember right.

Navy Nuclear Machinist's Mate 80k+ a year
Civilain Nuclear power plant operator 75K+

On first glance it looks like the Navy is the better deal, but upon closer look one would notice that the Navy person in question is actually a SCPO with at least 14 years in.  The Civie(I believe) would have been starting out or a few years experience but NO WHERE NEAR 14 years in.  I don't work in the commercial field but I am sure that after 14 years that you would be making a lot more than 80K+ a year.
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DSO

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #9 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:36 »
Yea--and how many friggin hrs is that SCPO working??  The Naval propaganda machine needs to let the public know that you are working many 80-100 hr weeks with "0" overtime pay. You could make a base pay of $12/hr and make 80k/yr (like the SCPO)with as many hrs as the Navy slaves you as a legal indentured servant.

Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #10 on: Apr 22, 2008, 01:49 »
This should be a no-brainer. Be home every night and watch your kids grow up or do 6-9 month deployments every year.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #11 on: Apr 22, 2008, 02:55 »
I'm seventeen years past the mark of what would have been my retirement. It came and went without a thought. My reasons for getting out were the same as many others, family. The only thing I have a tinge of regret about, is when I was approached about the Naval Academy, I declined to even look into it. It looked like four more years of bootcamp to a young man from a blue collar background, and the officers were THEY/THEM. I am a member of a veterans group with one termer's and lifers and they all seem happy with the decision they made one way or the other.

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #12 on: Apr 22, 2008, 03:01 »
Civilian Nuclear power plant operator 75K+

On first glance it looks like the Navy is the better deal, but upon closer look one would notice that the Navy person in question is actually a SCPO with at least 14 years in.  The Civie(I believe) would have been starting out or a few years experience but NO WHERE NEAR 14 years in.  I don't work in the commercial field but I am sure that after 14 years that you would be making a lot more than 80K+ a year.

From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 
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mlslstephens

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #13 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:07 »
This question is primarily directed to those who got out of the Navy after 9+ years and went into civilian work. Around the time you would have reached 20 and retired from the Navy did you regret getting out?

Like many I am faced with the very hard decision at nearly my 10 year point to stay in or get out. I have weighed the pros and cons of both sides and have made somewhat of a decision.  But I can't help but wonder am I going to kick my self in 10 years because I passed up on a pension and medical benefits for life.

93,
I am not the targeted audience of your question; originally, I wasn't going to respond to the question because I wasn't the focal point.  However, I rethought my decision about responding. 

Note: This post is not intended to be persuasive or evoke arguments.  It is only one man's retrospective opinion.

I've spent many hours on the back porch sipping a cup of Java wondering what my life would have been like if I would have left the Navy after my first enlistment.  This was the plan when I entered and I really thought I would stick to the plan until my first CO talked me into going to shore duty by leaving the boat early.  As I checked into NFAS as an instructor, I was sure that I only had three more years until I got out.  Then a year later I decided to give the Enlisted Commissioning Program one shot...who knew I would be accepted. Okay, I'm not going through my entire career, but here are my thoughts.  When my wife and I talk about what it might have been like, money is never the focal point of our discussion. Rather, we talk about our experiences that we have shared while being in the Navy.  Our conversation always comes back to where our kids were born, the places we visited and the places the Navy has sent us.  Yes, there are the topics of sea duty and the birthdays I've missed as well.  Life is made up of good times, bad times, happy times and sad times.  Life isn't a destination; but rather a journey.
The constant in our life is each other.  We know that life would have been different had we kept to our original plans and left the Navy after six years or even eight years but what we don't know is if life would have been better. 
Would I have more money in the bank if I had left the Navy earlier?  Who knows.  Would I have been able to attend my oldest daughters' fifth birthday party?  Probably.  Would my daughter still run out to the driveway and kiss me goodbye even when I'm only going to the store to get milk because she understands the privilege of life and that we aren't promised tomorrow?  I don't know.
Here is what I do know for sure.  My wife and I have enjoyed the last 19 years together as a couple and I have enjoyed the last 22 years as a Sailor.  I think I would have enjoyed my life if I would have left the service 16 years ago as well...because I love life.

So, I think everyone of us is right about our views on whether or not we regret our decisions.  It is a personal choice.

BTW, you are all welcome to attend my retirement ceremony on May 2.  :P

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #14 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:30 »
From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 

X2. With my EO buddies talking about paying off FICA around September you know they ain't doing too bad just a few years out of the navy.

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #15 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:38 »
From what I've seen you'll make that (at least) after 1.4 years as a NLO. 

Thank you for emphasizing my point.

Now on the flip side of this.  There are a lot of things that, believe it or not, I actually miss about being in the Navy.  The guys I worked with day in and day out, going places that I would have never seen otherwise, heck even some aspects of being underway(drinking the water, seeing the sun rise over the open ocean, even drills).  Having said all that, now that I have a wife and kid I just could not fathom not being home for 6 months at a time and missing special events.  There are days that I think about going back in, but it is only because I have forgotten all the awful times that I had during my 8 years.  Do I regret getting out at 8+?  Not at all.  Do I wish that I could go back and not join up to begin with? Never, would't trade those times for anything. 
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I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #16 on: Apr 22, 2008, 04:59 »
Looking back I know I would have made much more money had  left around the 10 year mark.

But I dont think Id be half the person I am now without that extra time in.  I know I also missed the "Hey Days" in the 80s.... but I have a host of friends and memories that few would ever experience without my canoe club time.

 BTW I still have a LONG way to go to be that person I want to become.... but I still hope I can befriend a few of you folks along the way  (I dont mind bribing with food either ). ;D

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #17 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:02 »
Right now, I am putting away about 1/3 of my salary in different investments. I feel pretty dang good about the future.


Excellent point... in the civilian investment vs. military retirement comparison, your survivors will receive all of your annuity and other investments that were competing with/surpassing the 20+ yr military retirement checks. Additionally, civilians have the ability to steer towards non-US dollar denominated investments. Military retirement pay is always going to be paid in depreciating US dollars.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #18 on: Apr 22, 2008, 09:48 »
Consider the following...................


So let's take an example of an E-7 with 20 years of service. He entered service in 1984, so he's under the High-3 plan. His average basic pay over the past three years is $3,342 per month, and 50 percent of that average equals a retirement pension of $1,671 per month, or $20,052 per year.

For an E-7 who has been in the military for 26 years, retirement is calculated under High 3.  This calculation is 2.5 percent of basic pay for each of his 26 years of service, or 65 percent of his annual basic pay at the time of retirement. At current pay rates, he makes $3,855 per month, or $46,260 per year, so the pension for that E-7 retiring after 26 years of service is $30,069 per year.

Since most civilian workers today do not have pensions, they must save enough during their working years to give them a monthly income in retirement that will last their lifetime. Here's an idea of what you would have to do on your own to replace your military pension's value:

• You would have to calculate how much you would need to retire at age 65 or earlier and manage your retirement account so that it increased to this amount while you are on active duty.

• You would have to maintain your retirement kitty after you retire and invest it so that you have a monthly income.

Military pensions are guaranteed, but managing your money to create your own pension is not. Military pensions also are adjusted each year for inflation, although the adjustment is often less than the actual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index.

So, going back to the E-7 with 20 years of service, what is his military pension of $20,052 per year really worth? Most experts agree that to ensure your retirement funds will last a lifetime, you cannot take out more than 4 percent of your capital each year. If you wish to increase your retirement income each year to keep up with inflation, a 3 percent withdrawal from capital each year is a more reasonable figure. To replace an annual pension of $20,052 based on a 3 percent withdrawal rate, you'd need $668,400 ($20,052 divided by 0.03 equals $668,400).

What is the possibility of accumulating $668,400 over 20 years on your present salary? Even if you assume you can take out 4 percent of your nest egg each year and not use up your money in your lifetime, you'd still need a nest egg of more than $500,000, without allowing for annual increases for inflation.

A pension of $30,069 per year would probably require $1,000,230 in retirement savings.

It is possible to purchase a retirement annuity for you and your spouse with your retirement nest egg. This would give you guaranteed income for life, but it would not increase each year to adjust for inflation. So in 36 years at 2 percent inflation, your money would be worth half as much and your lifestyle in retirement would decline.

Bottom line: A military pension is a very valuable benefit. If you had to save the money to provide your own pension, you would need at least $668,400 to create a pension of $20,055 per year adjusted for inflation. And the continued payment of the monthly pension would depend on the performance of your investments.


OR I can get out at 6, become an Entry Level Operator. And make the equivalent of what you just described in my first 5 to 5.5 years so after 11.5 years in the industry, counting my Navy Time I'll have equaled your 20 and the next 9 years is gravy.

From someone who has done that, AND I am NOT the first.

3600 a is about 2/3 of what a good SRO makes in a PAY period.

Mike

LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #19 on: Apr 23, 2008, 07:57 »

OR I can get out at 6, become an Entry Level Operator. And make the equivalent of what you just described in my first 5 to 5.5 years so after 11.5 years in the industry, counting my Navy Time I'll have equaled your 20 and the next 9 years is gravy.

From someone who has done that, AND I am NOT the first.

3600 a is about 2/3 of what a good SRO makes in a PAY period.

Mike

Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.

But I still think the biggest part for me was the experience.   Dont get me wrong - more money is mo money (and thats allways good), but I would have missed out on a lifetime of memories for an exchange of just 10 years of civie life.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #20 on: Apr 23, 2008, 08:17 »
Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.


Yes but I have also found that you get what you pay for with Military Medical.  Just before I got out, I had  back problems.  Every time I went to medical they said it was a pulled muscle, gave me muscle relaxers, and told me not to stand more than 8 hours of watch.  This happend about 4 times then finally I was out of the area and had a back issue come up, went to the emergency room(I could not even stand up straight) come to find out that it was a moderately herniated L5S1 Disc.  Did some physical therapy and it got better.  Started playing softball to drop a few pounds to help, ended up destroying my knee.  Instead of sending me for an MRI to see if I actually tore anything, they gave me a brace and gave me LIMDU for a week.  When it popped out of place again, they sent me for an MRI 2 months later then found out that I had a Torn ACL, Torn MCL, bone contusion, and a host of other things.  Sent me to Physical therapy, and kept giving me the run around about getting it fixed.  Finally said they were going to do surgery but I had a month left before EAOS.  I had already put down an offer on my house, accepted a job, etc and if I would have had the surgery I would have been stuck in for another 9 months.

I would much rather pay for medical insurance that if I feel they aren't taking care of me that I can switch doctors and if they royally screw up, I have legal recourse against them. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #21 on: Apr 23, 2008, 10:34 »
Mikie  you are quite correct... however not everything has to add up in numbers.

I do have medical insurance for the whole family that I dont have to pay for -  I do pay for a premium package -  ~460$ a years for all of us.  I can go to the base and get meds filled without cost, and while there hit the commisary and exchange, avoiding taxes.

But I still think the biggest part for me was the experience.   Dont get me wrong - more money is mo money (and thats allways good), but I would have missed out on a lifetime of memories for an exchange of just 10 years of civie life.

I made the best of my time in and had a lot of good memories, but my time out is a lot better. I can't imagine all the things I would have missed had I stayed in. The medical issue is a toss up. Both have  pros and cons. I lean more toward civilian medical though. But I definitely get more than one opinion. I had back issues a few years ago with a herniated L5S1. One doctor wanted to do immediated spinal fusion with disc removal. I did my own research and found a doctor that corrected it non-invasively with outpatient surgery. No down time.

PapaBear765

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #22 on: Apr 23, 2008, 10:43 »
Yes but I have also found that you get what you pay for with Military Medical.  Just before I got out, I had  back problems.  Every time I went to medical they said it was a pulled muscle, gave me muscle relaxers, and told me not to stand more than 8 hours of watch.  This happend about 4 times then finally I was out of the area and had a back issue come up, went to the emergency room(I could not even stand up straight) come to find out that it was a moderately herniated L5S1 Disc.  Did some physical therapy and it got better.  Started playing softball to drop a few pounds to help, ended up destroying my knee.  Instead of sending me for an MRI to see if I actually tore anything, they gave me a brace and gave me LIMDU for a week.  When it popped out of place again, they sent me for an MRI 2 months later then found out that I had a Torn ACL, Torn MCL, bone contusion, and a host of other things.  Sent me to Physical therapy, and kept giving me the run around about getting it fixed.  Finally said they were going to do surgery but I had a month left before EAOS.  I had already put down an offer on my house, accepted a job, etc and if I would have had the surgery I would have been stuck in for another 9 months.

I would much rather pay for medical insurance that if I feel they aren't taking care of me that I can switch doctors and if they royally screw up, I have legal recourse against them. 


Not defending military medical because I have my own complaints, but what you describe and what most anyone else can describe is not unique to the military.  There just as many occasions of civilian medical incompetence as military ones.  So, you don't necessarily get what you pay for when it comes to medical.  With medical, you get out of what you put into it, i.e. do you own research and be able to ask intelligent, pertinent questions about your condition.  I've heard enough stories from people about how their affliction would have never been diagnosed if they themselves had not done some research and asked a critical question.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #23 on: Apr 23, 2008, 03:03 »
Yes but even if you do research it and know what it is, that doesn't mean that the IDC is going to listen to you.  My mother was a nurse for 20+ years and when I explained to her what my symptoms where, it was easily a sinus infection.  Go to medical and the IDC told me I had allergies.  Mind you I had never had allergies and when I told him this, he explained that sometimes they crop up when you move to a new place.  Told him that I had been living in SC for 2 years at that point.  He still said it was allergies and gave me a script for Claritin.  DID NOTHING.  Basically I had to wait it out until my body cleared it up on its own.  Had it been a civilian doctor I could have asked for a second opinion from someone who didn't work in the same office.  I dont' know what it is, but it seems that they must be told to treat just enough to get you out of their hair instead of finding out what the problem really is. 
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LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #24 on: Apr 23, 2008, 05:51 »
I understand the medical woes of In vs Out.  I suffered a back injury as well... got the muscle relaxer treatment.  I also got the put a patch on it after I blew out my left knee, this was the Captain med officer making the call.  After 6 weeks of suffering with the knee pains I got a second opinion (military at that)  This turned out to be a Lt {reserve} who all but chewed out the O6.   After the knee rebuild (Doc said only the skin was holding it together) and a minor ortho follow up, my left knee is now better than my right.

Not all of the military doctors mare top notch..... but some are.. and sometimes you get lucky

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #25 on: Apr 23, 2008, 09:59 »
LaFeet,

I had a great time in the Navy and I'm not denying it was a good experience. My three best friends were guys I met in the Navy and I make it a point to get together with them at least once a year. Saying that, I've had an incredible time outside the Navy too. Given both have been great experiences why wouldn't I choose the one where I made more money?

You pay 460 a year for insurance. I pay a bit over 500. So to me it's a wash.

Mike

LaFeet

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #26 on: Apr 24, 2008, 06:33 »
Thanks for the info Mike..... I am enjoying my time out now.  Even making new friends to boot!

Hopefully our paths will cross and I can pay you that beer I owe your.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #27 on: Apr 24, 2008, 10:06 »
Thank you sir, anytime you're within driving distance of Sequoyah let me know!.

I certainly do not look down on anyone who makes the military a career. It's their choice and I commend anyone for doing what they really want to do. The USN is the worlds finest military unit  and our sailors should be proud to be a part of it. Anything you do in life is what you choose to make of it, the military included. I worked for some crappy people but not once did that ever cloud my attitude towards it, I went in believing I'd have a great time and ended up having an even better time than I could possibly imagine. And trust me, anyone who knew me then will tell you I was far from a diggit.  But those who are doing a career because they believe there is nothing else out there or are simply afraid to get out, I simply do not understand it. For instance, NaVLi4, I've met him, it's obvious he did a career because he enjoyed it, liked it, and felt he could make a positive difference in the Navy and those around him. I'm 100% convinced he did make a difference. He could have gotten out after 6 and been an outstanding commercial Nuke. If anyone recalls Chief Rob, it's the same thing. IIRC I talked with War Eagle on the phone, same thing, they are all outstanding and chose the Navy career because they believed it was a good way for them, I commend them for it and am very grateful they have done so. Again, in any industry or organization the cream rises to the top eventually and it was people like these who made my Navy time a total blast and again I was fortunate enough to work with three of the nicest and funnest guys I could imagine when I met DW, Taz and Tack who are closer to me then my brothers are. When deciding on a Navy career please do not just look at the money. Look at the intangibles too, and the people you'll meet in a 6, 8, 10 or even 20 year career are the most blessed intangible of all. Same if you choose the commercial route.

Mike


Offline G-reg

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #28 on: Apr 24, 2008, 10:53 »
I can't help but wonder am I going to kick my self in 10 years because I passed up on a pension and medical benefits for life.

Do not stay in the Navy for the pension and medical benefits.  Period.  Stay in the Navy because you enjoy it.  Stay in the Navy because you're proud of your service and that pride is deeply important to you.  Stay in the Navy because you're up for shore duty, and you really really want to qualify EOOW at Prototype.  Stay in the Navy because you want to be in the Navy.

From your original post, it sounds to me like you are less-than-enthusiastic about spending the next ten years in the Navy.  Brother, life is too short to put up with any particular occupation if you aren't enjoying it.  As long as you've got a decent work ethic and a good head on your shoulders, companies from coast to coast will be willing to pay you - so find one out there that you're happy with.  Check out some companies, and go to some job interviews.  Call up your Detailer and have him make you the very best offer that he can make.  You can even PM me if you'd like, and together we just might possibly find you a job in the Navy that you would actually enjoy.  I'm sure others in this forum with more time in the civilian world would do the same for you on the commercial side.  And then at the end of the day, YOU pick out the one job that will make YOU the happiest.

Peace, and best wishes to you!

 - Greg

P.S.  I went 20+ in the Navy, but "retirement benefits" were not a driving force behind my decision.  Although the pension & medical are OK, they aren't worth the years of misery that I've seen some people endure simply for the sole purpose of getting them.  If the Navy isn't working out for you, then it's time to start looking somewhere else - you don't have to sacrifice your present life for a carrot on the end of a stick 10 years from now.
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2008, 10:54 by G-reg »
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Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #29 on: Apr 24, 2008, 11:26 »
I agree with BZ.  I worked for NavLi4 in Charleston and he was a great person to work for.  He understood that some of BS that was going on was rediculous and did his best to dilute it down to edible portions.  Same went for his predecessor.  Unfortunately there aren't enough of his kind in the NNPP anymore.  I wish I could say that his enlisted roots helped him in that aspect, but I have worked for some other "former blueshirts" that were tyrants. 

I have to agree that life is too short to do something that you hate for so long.  I had good times and I had bad times.  In the end I am glad I did what I did and got out.  I feel blessed to have worked with some of the greatest people in the military, and have friends that I will never be able to replace. 
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nuketarded

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2008, 07:42 »
Haven't regretted it for one second.  Do miss the friends.  I found the environment stifling. Some don't.  I'm impressed by those who can tolerate it.  I have to have at least the illusion of control.  Being woken form a dead sleep to come sign a log, which will be on the boat with me for the next three months, does not present that illusion.  Of course the command you have makes a significant difference.





Offline anthonyalsup

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2008, 11:17 »
I am not who your question was targeted to, but I will give you some facts just to show the potential.

I was a Nuclear MM who did 6 and out.  No EWS.  Finished the Thomas Edison Bachelors.

I got a job as a NLO at one of the lower paying utilities in the country.

I made $129K last year and saw my wife and kid every day. (also have a 401K and pension)

For me, it is a no-brainer....

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2008, 11:55 »
This question is primarily directed to those who got out of the Navy after 9+ years and went into civilian work. Around the time you would have reached 20 and retired from the Navy did you regret getting out?

I spent 11 1/2 years in the Navy. I have been out for 12 1/2 years. I think that makes me the target of this question (never thought I would refer to myself as a target after 12 boomer patrols, but I digress).

When I first started running into the people that went in around the time I did, and they were now retired, it was quite a jolt. But I have to realize that I earned twice what they did for the years in between, and if I am going to have regrets, it is that I didn't save 25% of my gross income for that 8 1/2 year stretch.

From a personal point of view, it was great getting out. I got to spend time with my wife and sons that can never be taken away. My wife and I were able to care for her parents (still caring for one), and that would not have been possible on my Navy pay.

I know the benefits are nice. Dad is retired US Navy Reserve; but I won't choose commissary priveleges and flu shots over the time with my family.

Fortunately, there are patriots who are willing to sacrifice for my freedom, and I owe them a debt. I pray that I live my life in such a manner that our active and disabled military know how much I appreciate their sacrifices.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Offline nukeET1

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #33 on: Jun 01, 2008, 08:06 »
I do not miss:
1. The amount of unpaid hours I worked in the Navy.  The "standby and wait for something to happen attitude"  At my current position I recieve overtime anytime I am working.
2.  The time away from family.  Going to a movie theatre, seeing a trailer that looks like a great movie, then realizing I would be at sea during the movie.
3.  The pay.  I make 2-3 times navy salary even after taxes breaks.
4.  All the military BS, including: getting yelled at for not seeing an officer in the rain and saluting, Not knowing there was a nice shiny floor on a surface boat you couldnt walk on (Who would have thunk?), and some "leaders" attitude, because they had rank... they were always right... sigh...
5.  Wearing the stupid white had that got dirty all the time!  Or having "dress dungaree" or "dress poopie suit" uniform.  What the heck is that LOL.

I miss:
1.  Pulling into ports, running up Hooters bills in HA to 1K with just 8 of us..... :)
2.  The view of a sunrise of a submarine in the middle of the ocean.
3.  The drills we ran on the actual reactor plant.  The captain coming back in the middle of the night and scramming the reactor while tripping a feed pump, on his way back up forward.... and laughing all the way!
4.  The pride of wearing my dress uniform out in town.
5.  Military discounts.


A good friend of mine retired after 28 years in the military, he gets paid the same plus retirement.... rollling in the dough!
I did not want to subject myself to another 10 years of the military and do not ever regret the decision to get out.  I figure life offered me another path and I took it!

PapaBear765

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #34 on: Jun 01, 2008, 11:43 »
I do not miss:
1. The amount of unpaid hours I worked in the Navy.  The "standby and wait for something to happen attitude"  At my current position I recieve overtime anytime I am working.
2.  The time away from family.  Going to a movie theatre, seeing a trailer that looks like a great movie, then realizing I would be at sea during the movie.
3.  The pay.  I make 2-3 times navy salary even after taxes breaks.
4.  All the military BS, including: getting yelled at for not seeing an officer in the rain and saluting, Not knowing there was a nice shiny floor on a surface boat you couldnt walk on (Who would have thunk?), and some "leaders" attitude, because they had rank... they were always right... sigh...
5.  Wearing the stupid white had that got dirty all the time!  Or having "dress dungaree" or "dress poopie suit" uniform.  What the heck is that LOL.

I miss:
1.  Pulling into ports, running up Hooters bills in HA to 1K with just 8 of us..... :)
2.  The view of a sunrise of a submarine in the middle of the ocean.
3.  The drills we ran on the actual reactor plant.  The captain coming back in the middle of the night and scramming the reactor while tripping a feed pump, on his way back up forward.... and laughing all the way!
4.  The pride of wearing my dress uniform out in town.
5.  Military discounts.


A good friend of mine retired after 28 years in the military, he gets paid the same plus retirement.... rollling in the dough!
I did not want to subject myself to another 10 years of the military and do not ever regret the decision to get out.  I figure life offered me another path and I took it!


Well put.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #35 on: Jun 01, 2008, 04:11 »
nukeET1 why did your friend wrk for 8 years at half pay?

Whipple

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #36 on: Jun 01, 2008, 10:23 »
I don't regret getting out.  I also don't regret staying in. 

I came from a very poor family on the Gulf coast of Texas, and if it wasn't for the Navy, I would probably be dead or maimed by now.  There are very very few 45 yr old people still in good health working in the seafood industry.

When I joined, I had every intention of doing my 6, getting the money for college and doing what I really wanted to do, become a teacher.  Well, then I met my wife, and opportunities came up that I wanted to be a part of, and lo and behold it was 1996 and I only had 5 years left for retirement.

My wife and I actually considered calling an end to it and getting out because my oldest child had just turned 8 the others were 6 and 4 and it was time to head back to sea duty.  Needless to say, I didn't want to miss anymore of them growing up.

Fortunately, another opportunity opened up and I was able to retire a month past my 20 year point. 

Life is what happens when you are planning for the future.  (To slightly modify John Lennon).  When I look back on my time in the Navy, I feel that is exactly what I experienced.  I do know that I would not be the person today I am if it wasn't for the Navy in general and the NNPP in specific.  I met some of the best people in the world and was honored to learn from them everything I did.  I was a hick kid from a town of 300 who never would have seen the world without the opportunities the Navy presented.

Sure there were bad times and there are memories I don't cherish.  I did miss the birth of my first child, for instance.  But overall, and here is what I think is most important:  It was the right decision for my family and I to do my 20 and then leave.

I walked away from the pressure and politics of reactor plants and haven't once considered getting into the civilian nuclear sector.  Remember when I said what I wanted to do with my life back at the start of this post? 

Well after a couple of years getting things squared away so I could start college, I graduated this May with my degree in secondary education and will be teaching high school science at the start of the next school year.  (Gotta love the educational assistance test program - section 901)

I definitely didn't have the self discipline to go to college straight out of high school, not to mention the monitary means.  College was a breeze after the academics of the NNPP.

Whipple


Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #37 on: Jun 01, 2008, 11:21 »
Whipple,

Well said, I have a few questions.

1: What do you teach?

2: What level do you teach?

I'm looking to make an exit (eventually) from the industry and teaching is one of the things on the table.

Mike

Whipple

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #38 on: Jun 02, 2008, 08:13 »
Whipple,

Well said, I have a few questions.

1: What do you teach?

2: What level do you teach?

I'm looking to make an exit (eventually) from the industry and teaching is one of the things on the table.

Mike

Thank you Mike.

I will be able to teach 7th thru 12th grade earth sciences.  Because of my educational background from the NNPP, I also intend to become certified to teach physics and chemistry, which is done by passing a certification test in those subjects.

I had planned to become a high school physics teacher when I started; however, a trip to SW Utah chaged all that.  Once I went to Zion National Park and hiked up to a place called angels landing and was able to look out upon the time machine that erosion is, well I was hooked.

If I can be of any assistance to you in any way, please never hesitate to ask.

Whipple

rlbinc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #39 on: Jun 03, 2008, 04:12 »
I didn't spend +9 years there - but I did spend 8.5 years.

No, I never regretted getting out.
The work was extreme, the pay was minimal, and the accommodations were substandard to the federal prison system.

It's a different life - when  you are paid for your work and set your own standard of living.

The cause of Freedom is what you served. There's nothing wrong with having the things that accompany Freedom pay you back.

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #40 on: Jun 03, 2008, 07:01 »
Whipple can you teach without a degree providing you have the certification?
I ask this because I was approached by a school district about teaching.

rlbinc, weren't you former NRC?

Mike

rlbinc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #41 on: Jun 03, 2008, 08:29 »
Yes.

There is no license quite as nice as "formerly" licensed.

You get all the credibility with none of the blame.

Whipple

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #42 on: Jun 03, 2008, 09:57 »
Whipple can you teach without a degree providing you have the certification?
I ask this because I was approached by a school district about teaching.

rlbinc, weren't you former NRC?

Mike

Mike:

The details are different depending in which state you will be teaching, but the gist of it goes like this:  You can be "emergency certified" in a subject which allows you to teach in the classroom.  This certification is normally good for 1-3 years, depending on the state.  During this time frame you would be required to pass the knowledge test for the subject you are teaching as well as take the education courses required to receive a BA or BS in education if it was a long term position.

Various caveats such as:  is this a temp position, does the district even want you to come back next year, are you basically going to be a long term sub, etc will impact how the emergency certification can play out.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but with so much emphasis on "highly qualified teachers" as part of NCLB that are numerous requirements on how, when and where emergency certification can be used.  If you goggle "emergency certification" and add your state after it, you will most likely find a link to the state board of education for your location and you can get the details from there.

Whipple
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2008, 09:58 by Whipple »

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #43 on: Jun 03, 2008, 10:18 »

   ...mr. broadzilla, sir...

   ...the bachelor of science degree in applied science and technology, through the challenge process of the thomas edison state college examination program, is easily and rapidly attained by those familiar with the experience of intense effort...

   ...If the U.S. Government decides to stick a tracking device up your ass…You say, “Thank You…And God bless America!” ...

   ...wow...


Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #44 on: Jun 03, 2008, 10:31 »
   ...mr. broadzilla, sir...




   ...wow...



Should I assume you were quoting from a PM he sent? Cause you lost me at "sir".
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wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #45 on: Jun 03, 2008, 11:17 »
Should I assume you were quoting from a PM he sent? Cause you lost me at "sir".

   ...the poster in question has answered, directly and clearly, many questions that I have asked on this site over the years...

   ...he has earned my respect and admiration and has, from an ex-marine who does not lightly use the word 'sir', more than earned that title...

   ...i asked recently if there was a 'wow' moment any where in the process of adding a freshly refueled reactor's power to the grid since i have, in over two decades of living in these concrete dungeons, most of them, wondered...

   ...read the short paragraph under his postings...

   ...the reference to the degree was in response to the mention of teaching...

   ..how do you fit in all this...




Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #46 on: Jun 03, 2008, 11:22 »
Why thank you, you tend to ask very good questions. Roll Tide knows me and how I run things, I'm as Un Sir like as it gets.

I guess I can clarify one thing, after a transient when the adrenaline is dying down and you realize you did well exactly as trained then I will give a Wow wasn't that a rush.

rlbinc, how did you like working for the NRC?

Mike
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2008, 01:44 by Broadzilla »

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #47 on: Jun 03, 2008, 11:38 »

   ...'Wow wasn't that a rush'...

   ...i think i knew this all along...i just needed to hear it...


Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #48 on: Jun 04, 2008, 01:45 »
But only after transients or something similar. Moving the plant for a startup and shutdown is fun but doesn't give me that wow feeling.

Mike

withroaj

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #49 on: Jun 04, 2008, 08:47 »
Way off topic here and I'm sorry, but how do transients work in commercial plants?  Does it happen when "Gray's Anatomy" comes on, or do other transient conditions take place?  You all know the NNPP transients I am familiar with, and I just wonder how transients work in a big kids' plant.  Seasonal?  Time of day?  Do you feel it when a plant has to trip a generator 100 miles away?

rlbinc

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #50 on: Jun 04, 2008, 03:08 »
rlbinc, how did you like working for the NRC?

Mike

I was licensed by the NRC at Clinton. I didn't work for the NRC in the classical sense. Although during an enforcement investigation in 1997, I was throughly convinced that I did work for them.

The talk with the NRC Regional Administrator included something about "the unique relationship the NRC maintains with its licensees" while it was painfully apparent that I was on the receiving end in that relationship. :D


« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2008, 03:10 by rlbinc »

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #51 on: Jun 04, 2008, 03:27 »
To bring the thread back on topic, Do I regret getting out?

Never in a million years.  I have often thought about what it would be like to go back in with some of the knowledge I have now about certain things, but I am costantly reminded about all the things that helped make my decision to get out.  Are there things that I miss?  Absolutely, a lot of which are very similar to a previous post by someone else.  But the bottom line is that..

-I get to sleep in my own bed EVERY SINGLE night.
-If someone wants me to be at work just in case something happens or on a holiday or weekend, it is going to cost them and I will get paid for it.
-If life truly gets crappy at this job, I can switch to a new career without having to wait YEARS.
-My personal and family life isn't required to be a secondary consideration when it comes to my job.
-My bosses actually understand that I am an asset that can leave at anytime, therefore actually try to make life bearable rather than treat me like and indentured servant that may or may not stick around after 6 years.  Throw some money at him and hope, if not OH WELL.

I may not make as much as some of you NLOs or other guys, but I can say that I get paid rediculously well for the amount of work I actually have to do.  A job with little to no stress, you can't get that in the Navy.
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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #52 on: Jun 04, 2008, 04:47 »
Way off topic here and I'm sorry, but how do transients work in commercial plants?  Does it happen when "Gray's Anatomy" comes on, or do other transient conditions take place?  You all know the NNPP transients I am familiar with, and I just wonder how transients work in a big kids' plant.  Seasonal?  Time of day?  Do you feel it when a plant has to trip a generator 100 miles away?

From what I have seen.... SLOW. :) There is no AIII! out here. :(

Justin

Edited to add NORMAL transients that I have seen. Abnormal is another story.
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2008, 04:58 by JustinHEMI »

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #53 on: Jun 04, 2008, 04:56 »
I've been in 4 major transients. They all happened FAST and none quite fit into any Abnormal Procedure so it was all rather fun. Only one was scary though. It was the Hydrogen transient at Fermi. I was the Unit Supervisor for that. One of the other members of this board was my Control Room Operator during that event. He did a darn good job.
The others all had something to do with either the Feedwater or Heater Drains Systems. None were cookie cutter and all were memorable because of the thinking the ROs, Unit Supervisors, and I had to do in order to stabilize the plant.

I've yet to have a transient on Dayshift but that's simply luck of the draw I think.

As for your last question, it depends on how heavily loaded the grid is, the capacity of the tripping generator, and how strongly you are connected to the grid where the generator is.\


A few weeks ago I saw a frequency oscillation caused by a generator that tripped in southern Georgia. You won't know where it happened, the grid operator has to tell you, that is unless it's your generator that's doing the misbehaving.

Mike

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #54 on: Jun 04, 2008, 05:11 »
Always hate those darn reactor gnomes.  Always playing around at the worst possible time.  Oh BZ love the quote, gotta love Red Foreman. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #55 on: Jun 04, 2008, 05:56 »

   ...elite group of reactor gnomes perform hot loop nozzle dam insertion...

   ...subsequent innovative action by plant operators prevent pump cavitation and compromise of time to boil criterion...

   ...stability of the grid, life blood of the industrialized world, is maintained...

   ...all is right with the world...




Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #56 on: Jun 04, 2008, 07:54 »
I have yet to see anything elite about nuclear power, as for inserting nozzle dams there's nothing elite about it.

As for innovative action, this is not an innovative industry and if you're gotten close to pump boil criteria you might as well start explaining to plant management what innovative F Up you authorized that got you there.

Mike


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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #57 on: Jun 04, 2008, 08:21 »
what are you talking about, no commercial nuclear power plant would ever do something innovative like remove almost all of their safety features, operate the plant in a condition that was never supposed to be operated in, pull out more rods than were ever supposed to, let alone end up blowing the vessel containment lid hundreds of feet in the air and contaminating half of Europe in the process. 

Oh wait....
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #58 on: Jun 04, 2008, 08:51 »
That wasn't operators being innovative, that was actually all proceduralized in a special test.

Mike

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #59 on: Jun 04, 2008, 08:55 »
  


 ..."I deviated from procedure 3 times when I was in the Navy and got commended all three times because I realized the procedure would not work for the situation I was in"...

   ...innovative...



    

 
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2008, 08:56 by wlrun3 »

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #60 on: Jun 04, 2008, 08:56 »
That wasn't operators being innovative, that was actually all proceduralized in a special test.

Mike

Touche`.  Okay someone got innovative in their test procedure.  Can we say Special Standing Orders?
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #61 on: Jun 04, 2008, 10:08 »
 


 ..."I deviated from procedure 3 times when I was in the Navy and got commended all three times because I realized the procedure would not work for the situation I was in"...

   ...innovative...



     

 


Not at all, it's utilizing your training and I would submit, in most cases like this it was probably well known the procedure didn't work to begin with, so why didn't anyone change it?


Offline Gamecock

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #62 on: Jun 05, 2008, 07:14 »
 


 ..."I deviated from procedure 3 times when I was in the Navy and got commended all three times because I realized the procedure would not work for the situation I was in"...

   ...innovative...



     

 

You must have been on the 'Prise.
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #63 on: Jun 05, 2008, 08:07 »
No because if he was on the 'Prise he would have still been in the Navy, thus he would not have been "commended" for deviating from procedure, but rather "disqualified pending upgrade" for not following procedure. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #64 on: Jun 05, 2008, 10:20 »
This quote (of BZ is from another thread) used by Wlrun3 is available below.

This is the thread marker:
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,13093.msg71620.html#msg71620

Wlrun3 uses your own quotes to prove or disprove consistency.  Or to get a clarification.  Or to praise you.  Or to discredit you.  I never know sometimes.  He has the highest "Cryptic Advantage" of us all.

Jason

LOL wow. But does he have a photographic memory too? I mean... that was said by BZ back in jan. :) Impressive though!

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #65 on: Jun 05, 2008, 10:23 »
He reminds me of the mentor character in "Mystery Men" called the "Sphynx" or somethign like.  Very circular in advice.  Scary.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #66 on: Jun 05, 2008, 10:30 »

Not at all, it's utilizing your training and I would submit, in most cases like this it was probably well known the procedure didn't work to begin with, so why didn't anyone change it?



Well don't you know, they have to wait until they get a few more procedures they have to change in order to make it cost effective.  Until then "tribal knowledge" will work just fine until someone screws it up.  Just refer to the EWS pocketbrain for the necessary information.  Oh wait this was a commercial plant, nevermind.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #67 on: Jun 05, 2008, 10:35 »
I'm a Ex-Navy Nuke.  I can't help it.  I was created this way.  Its not my fault I recall ALL conversations online.  I have OCD.

At least you don't have OCD/ADD where you continuously change what you obsess about. :D

I understand the "I was created this way" I STILL quit talking when I hear anyone start talking over an intercom whether it be Wal-Mart or the Shop I work in.  I accidently spilled some water on my kitchen floor the other night.  I looked at my wife, I smiled, Walked away, Ignored the problem, Made up a story as to why I needed to leave the area, and Stuck to that story.  Wife none to happy. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Fermi2

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #68 on: Jun 05, 2008, 01:14 »
Yeah and later in my career I realized I had worked around the procedure the other times I had used it. That's the difference in being young and dumb at 25 and having a clue at 40 :)

Given I knew exactly what I'd do if the situation came up I'd hardly call it innovative and I'd I wouldn't say I my best to correct that which I knew was defective.


Mike

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #69 on: Jun 05, 2008, 02:38 »
LOL wow. But does he have a photographic memory too? I mean... that was said by BZ back in jan. :) Impressive though!

Justin

   ...yes...


wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #70 on: Jun 05, 2008, 09:45 »
He reminds me of the mentor character in "Mystery Men" called the "Sphynx" or somethign like.  Very circular in advice.  Scary.

   ...sydney carton, tale of two cities, dickens...


PapaBear765

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Re: Did/do you regret getting out
« Reply #71 on: Jul 09, 2008, 12:28 »

-I get to sleep in my own bed EVERY SINGLE night.



This one guy who got out from my boat put it: "I get my own rack every night, and if I hot-rack, it's a good thing."  Couldn't argue with that.

 


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