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wlrun3@aol.com

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Breaker to Breaker
« on: May 26, 2008, 07:54 »

   ...where, physically, is the breaker...

   ...what does engaging/disengaging the breaker entail...

   ...is this sequence of modes generic in american light water reactors:

   ...mode 1...power > 5%
   ...mode 2...startup < 5%
   ...mode 3...hot standby > 350 degrees
   ...mode 4...hot shutdown < 350 degrees
   ...mode 5...cold shutdown < 200 degrees
   ...mode 6...refueling <140 degrees

   ...is there a moment, following a refuel outage, when success can be declared...
 
   ...if this moment exists, is there a collective sense of accomplishment...


     

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 08:27 »
speeking strikly asa hp, currently out of da power plant loop, da breaker is dat big mechanical device in da switchyard dat connects/disconnects da circuit from da plant to da grid.

of coors, iffen yer listening to da radeeo, 'n ya here 'breaker, breaker...' dey ain't talking nuke.


der issa moment when success kin be declared, 'n a sense of accomplisment kin be phelt.  it usta come to me when eye herd dat 'breaker, breaker......'
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 08:31 by SloGlo »
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Offline tr

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 10:57 »
...where, physically, is the breaker...  in the switchyard

   ...what does engaging/disengaging the breaker entail...  verifying the generator is synchronized properly with the grid and turning a switch in the control room

   ...is this sequence of modes generic in american light water reactors:

   ...mode 1...power > 5%
   ...mode 2...startup < 5%
   ...mode 3...hot standby > 350 degrees
   ...mode 4...hot shutdown < 350 degrees
   ...mode 5...cold shutdown < 200 degrees
   ...mode 6...refueling <140 degrees

No.  Your Mode 1 and 2 above is typical for a BWR.  For PWR's, its usually something like Mode 2 is K-effective >0.99, Mode 1 is > 5%.  You can check the NUREG-1430 series of documents on the NRC web site for the standard Tech Specs for each type of reactor for the exact definitions (see section 1 of the TS).

   ...is there a moment, following a refuel outage, when success can be declared...  typical criteria for outage success is something like no unplanned shutdowns or power reductions for 30 days after closure of breakers
 
   ...if this moment exists, is there a collective sense of accomplishment...  Depending on the site, this can mean something like a post outage lunch for everyone on site.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 09:07 »

   ...is anything in the switchyard manually engaged/disengaged...

   ...the moment I was curious about would be similar to landing in an aircraft...

   ...is there such a moment recognized by those involved...



 

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 10:37 »
   ...is anything in the switchyard manually engaged/disengaged...

   ...the moment I was curious about would be similar to landing in an aircraft...

   ...is there such a moment recognized by those involved...

There is a very large 'link' between the switchyard and the grid that raises (hold your arm out straight, palm up, make a fist and bend your elbow upward to get the picture.) It is very impressive to see if it is very humid or a little foggy out as the moisture in the air causes a visible arc as the connection is broken. Lots of Snap, Crackle, Pop.

There are several moments of significance including Rx critical, connected to grid and the aforementioned 30 days. There is also a 100 days milestone. There is rarely a collective cheer, but often a synchronized sigh of relief.
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Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 01:38 »
There is a very large 'link' between the switchyard and the grid that raises (hold your arm out straight, palm up, make a fist and bend your elbow upward to get the picture.) It is very impressive to see if it is very humid or a little foggy out as the moisture in the air causes a visible arc as the connection is broken. Lots of Snap, Crackle, Pop.

There are several moments of significance including Rx critical, connected to grid and the aforementioned 30 days. There is also a 100 days milestone. There is rarely a collective cheer, but often a synchronized sigh of relief.

A short video of opening a disconnect under no load but 33 MVAR of residual charge (the ckt switcher inside the insulators was failed, so it had to be done this way). A long and very informative narrative is also found on the website. Had the upstream breaker not been opened, the Jacob's Ladder could have reached the 500 kV line, with resulting physics effects...

http://www.arcfault.org/video.htm

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 02:03 »
A short video of opening a disconnect under no load but 33 MVAR of residual charge (the ckt switcher inside the insulators was failed, so it had to be done this way). A long and very informative narrative is also found on the website. Had the upstream breaker not been opened, the Jacob's Ladder could have reached the 500 kV line, with resulting physics effects...

http://www.arcfault.org/video.htm

Very cool video. A horizontal version what I described. I have seen them produce an arc, but not like that one, of course.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
                                  -Ronald Reagan

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

                                  - Voltaire

Fermi2

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 04:07 »
Mode 2 in a BWR is typically when you put the Mode Switch in Startup. It's not power dependent. What drives the change to Mode 1 is putting the Mode Switch in Run prior to getting to the IRM or Low Power Setdown Reactor Trips. Typically this is done at around 7 or 8 % power as you bwant to ensure all the APRM Downscale alarms are clear otherwise you'll get a rod block and cannot increase power. The bottomline in a BWR the Modes are not power dependent, they are slected on the basis of a switch position.

You also got Mode 6 wrong. Mode 6 is less than 140F with a Head detensioned.

Mike

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 04:21 »
 

  ...minneapolis to manila...non stop...747...land...left seat looks at right seat...

   ...quadruple bypass...surgeon puts down instrument...looks at nurse practitioner...

   ...bond trader in new york at solomon gets out of his chair after eight hour session buying and selling currencies as trading day moved from tokyo to rome...
  
   ...somewhere there must be a quiet few who are awed as they add a thousand megawatts of nuclear generated electricity to the grid that supports this breathtakingly stunning civilization...

   ...is there no 'wow' moment...





 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 04:22 by wlrun3 »

vikingfan

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 04:50 »
 
   ...is there a moment, following a refuel outage, when success can be declared...
        



yes when the plant management starts to smell steam !!! in other words they know the turbine will start making money soon !!

karma to bz for correcting the mode 6 statement !!


Fermi2

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 05:15 »


  ...minneapolis to manila...non stop...747...land...left seat looks at right seat...

   ...quadruple bypass...surgeon puts down instrument...looks at nurse practitioner...

   ...bond trader in new york at solomon gets out of his chair after eight hour session buying and selling currencies as trading day moved from tokyo to rome...
   
   ...somewhere there must be a quiet few who are awed as they add a thousand megawatts of nuclear generated electricity to the grid that supports this breathtakingly stunning civilization...

   ...is there no 'wow' moment...





 


Uh no. I'm paid to do it, so it's what I do. I get more of a thrill when I'm explaining a system or concept to someone and I see the sudden realization on their face that they understand.

vikingfan, thank you :)

Mike

matthew.b

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Re: Breaker to Breaker
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 01:21 »
There is a very large 'link' between the switchyard and the grid that raises (hold your arm out straight, palm up, make a fist and bend your elbow upward to get the picture.) It is very impressive to see if it is very humid or a little foggy out as the moisture in the air causes a visible arc as the connection is broken. Lots of Snap, Crackle, Pop.

You're thinking of a disconnect switch.   They are used to isolate unloaded equipment like breakers, and they can take switching on and off the energizing current of transformers & power lines.  Switching power lines or transformers can make them sizzle quite a bit.

Load break switches can switch reactors and capacitors on & off.  They have vacuum or SF6 interrupter bottles inside an insulated bushing on one end.

None of the above can interrupt major loads, nor interrupt a short circuit.  That's done by circuit breakers that are either oil filled, SF6 filled or air blast breakers for something like the main generator breakers at a power plant.  The oil filled or SF6 breakers don't do anything spectacular except for make some noise when they open and close.  The air blast ones are very loud.

 


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