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withroaj

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The Nuclear Renaissance
« on: Jun 10, 2008, 02:43 »
To begin with I would like to apologize to everyone who has read my posts and think I am too uppity and have spoke too soon on this forum.  I have frequented nukeworker for the last few years, from shortly after I joined the Navy and throughout the various milestones therein (phases of training, SPU, boat, LIMDU).  Only upon reporting to LIMDU have I really taken the time to construct the pedistal that I stand on and spout nonsense upon the community.  Sorry about that, I seriously have too much time on my hands.

As I draw closer to my six year point my buddies are all starting to get out, many of them without even having jobs lined up.  A few have sent resumes to plants and been denied jobs, not because of the guys themselves, but because the plants simply aren't hiring at a time that supports the departing sailor's EAOS.  I don't want to bring up the recruiter thing, since they do their jobs and we join the Navy.  I do want to bring up the general consensus within the Navy nuke community that we will be swept up into the commercial world upon leaving the Navy;  that the 'old guard' commercial operators are retiring en masse and that the departing nukes will just roll into the new opeinings.

From what I've seen these guys aren't getting swept up, and despite my self-righteous, incoherent babbling that surely destroys any cerdibility I may have, I can say that these are good people.  They may put themselves at risk because of the Navy being their first experience away from mommy, not realizing that grown-ups have jobs, they put their desire to leave the military over their general well being.  They may also be too dependent on one particular region of the US to settle when they get out, but those who are willing to move to nuclear communities don't seem to be finding nuclear jobs.  Of the last ten to get out, I think only one works at a plant right now.  True, many Navy Nukes get out so burned out on nuclear power that they decide to do other jobs, but I have seen a couple actually unable to get nuke jobs on the way out.  Are these people just aiming too high for their entry-level jobs (coming from a world where a guy with two years operational experience calls himself senior)?  Does their problem come from the fact that they think SRO on the boat is the same as SRO in a big kids' plant?

My question:  Is the nuclear renaissance here, or is it just on the horizon?  Do we have to wait for new plants or for the old folks to retire, or can we take our Navy nuclear training from 6-or-8-and-out to a plant to make money?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #1 on: Jun 10, 2008, 02:58 »
My experience is the opposite. Of the last 10 guys I know that got out, 6 are at plants 4 went onto other things. The problem with the nuke industry is that they hire in cycles. So, if they are not filling a class right now, then they aren't going to hire you for NLO/SRO, typically. I wouldn't blame the industry. I would ask your friends just how many places they applied to, and did they search the job openings? In my experience, you have to apply from the website where the specific job opening is, and if there was a listing, and they didn't get hired... then they need to look at themselves. One falsehood that Navy nukes have is that they are going to be auto-hired... that is simply not true. I do know a few guys that are blowing their interviews or the POSS exam, probably because they went into it with the "I am a shoe in" attitude. Or, they couldn't answer questions like "Tell me about a time that you helped lead a team in solving a problem, using the STAR technique."

Now, if they looked at the job site and applied for a job that wasn't posted (which you can't do in most cases), then of course they aren't going to be hired yet. They could go into queue for the next cycle. Also, it tells me that they haven't networked. They haven't come to a place like nukeworker.com to make contacts and give out their name and resume. Here, they could also find out the cycles of many places. For example, I could tell you the next time we will be hiring for NLO. Mike could do the same for his plant. Both of us could hand deliver a guys resume if he meets our individual qualifications (I did it twice in my short time at PV, and both were hired). Sometimes, if you know the right person, they can help you out quite a bit. But again, in the end, it comes down to the individual in the interview room.

If they aren't getting hired, sorry, but its not the industries fault. They need to take another look at their resume, their careers and their interview styles. 6 and out nukes are a dime a dozen, and from what I have seen here, they industry skims for the top of the crop. A guy that did something to make his career stand out. Why? Because they aren't just looking to just fill an NLO slot with this guy, they are hiring guys who will go on to be SROs someday.

So if you or your friends are one of those 6 and outters that did just enough to get by without getting in trouble, well, good luck. With a little determination you will probably get hired but its going to take a little more work. You won't be able to drop your resume at 1-5 places, you need to apply anywhere and everywhere. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a sure path to disappointment. Open up your search and realize that you just need to get your foot in the door somewhere, even if its a place you wouldn't normally want to work/live. You are going to have to learn how to answer questions like I mentioned above.

Even worse is an 8-10 and outter who didn't do anything like qualify EWS or get a degree.

Hope that helps.


Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2008, 03:09 by JustinHEMI »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #2 on: Jun 10, 2008, 03:10 »
I'm not too worried about myself here, I have a couple years left on the ol' contract and I won't get out until I have met the goals I have for my time in (supervisory experience and a degree).  I'm more worried about the guys who leave to the hallowed CIVLANT/CIVPAC without a real plan.  Just want to see what advice you fellers would put up for me to pass around.  I refer this site to anyone talking about getting out, but many don't really listen.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #3 on: Jun 10, 2008, 03:16 »
I'm not too worried about myself here, I have a couple years left on the ol' contract and I won't get out until I have met the goals I have for my time in (supervisory experience and a degree).  I'm more worried about the guys who leave to the hallowed CIVLANT/CIVPAC without a real plan.  Just want to see what advice you fellers would put up for me to pass around.  I refer this site to anyone talking about getting out, but many don't really listen.

Well there you go. They don't have a plan. I knew a few like that too. A couple guys that were banking on another friend, that didn't pay out for them. If they aren't listening to you about coming here, bad on them. That is the best advice you could give them, because here, we could direct them to where they need to go. Maybe explain to them too, that to get hired as an NLO with no Navy experience requires a degree. So the industry isn't looking to hire retards, Navy or not. And it really shows in the level of professionalism and integrity out here. Gone are the days of guys too lazy to take logs, wipe up oil, analyze a sample, survey an area or really learn their job, in my experience thus far. I have been so very impressed with the NLOs at my plant. And the interview process weeds out the crap bags from the Navy... the guys that were no loads. The questions asked cannot be faked, and the true being of a person will come out.

Good for you, that you have a plan. Sounds like you are on the right track, and when the time comes, you shouldn't have much trouble finding what you need.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2008, 03:17 by JustinHEMI »

rlbinc

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #4 on: Jun 10, 2008, 07:44 »
Let's talk about a client of mine.
This company has recently discovered that the enactment of the Fatigue Rule has left them very short on Licensed Operators.
Very short might not accurately characterize the situation. Desperately short might be a more accurate description.

They will run +20 man License Classes at all of their sites for the forseeable future, which depletes their NLO ranks.

That makes jobs aplenty for Navy Nukes.

If you can't find a job - either there is a good reason, or you aren't really looking.

My nephew got out (2nd generation nuke) last year and got a nice job with a French company, and he loves it.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #5 on: Jun 10, 2008, 08:11 »

   ...Desperately short ...

   ...is there no one that frequents this site that is in power to muster our combined mutual interests and do something to strengthen what we all depend on...

   ...i, for one, would help...
   
   ..."we must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang seperately"...franlklin





 
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2008, 08:34 by wlrun3 »

JsonD13

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #6 on: Jun 10, 2008, 09:05 »
What are you talking about????????

The way you are making it sound is if you are saying that employers should be looking on nukeworker for employees. 

Even though I am in the Navy still, I realize that NO ONE is going to come find me for a job, you need to find your own.

Is this serious or just a version of freelance poetry?

JohnK87

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #7 on: Jun 10, 2008, 09:18 »
Several years ago I saw a growing "perfect storm" for nuclear workers.

The original "Perfect Storm" was three separate weather systems that combined east of Newfoundland and retrograded back towards the coast.  Great book by Sebastian Junger.

Anyway, my original "3 storms" combining into one HUGE storm was
1)  The coming wave of retirements in an industry with an average age around 45 yrs.
2)  The reduction in size of the Nuclear Navy and trained personnel leaving becoming less numerous.
3)  The hiring of new personnel for new nuclear plant construction.

The first two have already hit and continue to bash the rocks of fate, the third one will begin as soon as construction starts on the first plants.

The new OT rule was proposed by people who wanted to make nuclear power more expensive to operate, and supported by unions who recognized it would result in more people having to be hired.  It is starting to show up in the bonuses and pay given people straight out of the Navy to go to Direct SRO school.  Many companies are still holding their hands over their eyes and hoping, but it won't do any good.  The ones that are smart are offering much more money now to get people through classes by the time the rule comes, and often that is at the expense of those companies who hold compensation constant.

It is a great time to be an SRO, an engineer, and to a lesser extent an HP/Chem.  There will be a LOT of upward pressure on compensation to attract and retain people in the next few years.  I can see some companies who don't react in time taking extraordinary measures to keep operating.  For instance, Turkey Point is right now down to 3 operating crews and is hiring/training at a furious rate.  Word is that SM's are being offered $300k/yr and a 500k bonus if they stay for 5 years.  THAT is good.   ;D

JsonD13

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #8 on: Jun 10, 2008, 09:36 »
Wow.......almost makes me wish im not moving back home.......well not really.

Miss them lakes!


Jason

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #9 on: Jun 11, 2008, 06:27 »
Ok what is an "SM"?   I don't work in the Commercial nuclear field(although I might consider it soon) so I have no idea what that is.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

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I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #10 on: Jun 11, 2008, 07:04 »
Ok what is an "SM"?   I don't work in the Commercial nuclear field(although I might consider it soon) so I have no idea what that is.

It's a Shift Manager, sometimes also called an OS (Operating Supervisor).  That would be the person in charge of the Operations crew on duty.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

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rlbinc

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #11 on: Jun 11, 2008, 07:46 »
... NO ONE is going to come find me for a job...

For a Millennial, you seem to have a pretty solid grasp on the commercial nuclear job market. Most think there is some sort of Cosmic Nuclear Soccer Mom who will individually direct each candidate to their dream job.
She was downsized in the 90's, sorry.
 
The fact is - initiative is well measured by the approach one takes while looking for a job. And that one trait is exactly what the utilities are looking for. One would be well advised to gain contacts through professional organizations. There are a few. For folks your age I particularly like the one we call the young 'uns (NA-YGN) - look at their site and see who sponsors their meetings and events. Yup, those big buck utilities trip over themselves to provide cash and facilities for this group. There will be folks at those meetings you might want to get to know.

When you do send resumes, send them to both Human Resources and the department you want to work for.  Call the site and arrange a visit with that department. Some odd forces come in to play here. When YOU think you are important enough to warrant consideration - others tend to agree.
I always called that the power of Operator Ego. The Hindu's call it Karma and Austin Powers calls it his Mojo. But whatever it's called, open up a whole can of it and apply liberally.


« Last Edit: Jun 11, 2008, 07:50 by rlbinc »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #12 on: Jun 12, 2008, 09:02 »
I really appreciate that NA-YGN advice.  It seems like a great place to start networking and I signed up.  I'll pass the info on to all my pals wanting to separate.

Khak-Hater

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #13 on: Jun 12, 2008, 10:47 »
Unfortunately, few things are fair in life, whether in the military or civilian job market.  Plants may be hiring like gangbusters for a few months, then you may go through a significant drought.  My experience is that, if you work hard, there are always opportunities, even though they may not be the ones that you thought that you'd be looking for.  When I got to the ship, the short timers were all getting high-paying jobs as RadCon Techs, but over a couple of years those dried up considerably [due to some fluctuations in DOE hiring and shorter outages at power plants].  Then, about the time of my original EAOS [which wasn't applicable for me since I'd reenlisted in prototype], my peers were all highly recruited getting operator jobs at power plants [due primarilly to a lot of plants at the time adding an extra shift for training].

At my EAOS, no one was hiring, I sent out 120 resumes and got three interviews [one with ComEd as a Health Physicist, and two with DOE contractors].  This search did yield the most amusing rejection that I've ever heard of however.  Florida Power Corp, who historically ran Crystal River, responded to my resume with a standard looking little green post card that said something to the effect of:

"Thanks for the submission of your resume and your expressed interest in working with us at Crystal River.  Having reviewed your resume, we do not have any positions available at this time that meet your qualifications, nor do we anticipate having any in the future.  We will not retain your resume on file and request that you refrain from sending us any more in the future."

I always thought that was the funniest thing.

Regardless, you take the opportunities that life gives you and do the most with them.  They may not be what you planned, but they're all good.

As to the nuclear renaissance, I can tell you that there is more hiring going on now than I've seen in the last fourteen years, and with all of the renewed interest in the nuclear industry and old dudes retiring [most guys I work with are ten to twenty years older than me], it can only get better.  It's all a game of musical chairs.  You can't think about what positions are currently posted.  You have to think about who's going to fill those positions and what openings they'll create when they do.  As a final note, keep an open mind.  There are a good many high paying positions [or at least gateway jobs to those positions] available to Navy Nukes other than Operators at power plants.

The future is very bright,

MGM

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #14 on: Jun 12, 2008, 10:52 »
And all anyone has to do is read you experienced fellers' responses to realize the true glory of nukeworker.com.  No short supply of information and inspiration, and I'd imagine connections when specific help is needed.  You guys are the best.

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #15 on: Jun 12, 2008, 11:55 »
Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2008, 11:57 by withroaj »

Nuclear Renaissance

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #16 on: Jun 12, 2008, 12:31 »
Be it BWR or PWR, you'll get taught what you need to know. That being said, you probably always have the Navy's stance on bulk boiling in the core in the back of your mind.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #17 on: Jun 12, 2008, 12:32 »
Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).

I was not in the navy, but over the last 34 years I have seen my share of transitioning navy-to-commercial personnel in most fields. Naturally, the answer is yes, and no.

Navy experience helps with fundamentals, but not with the reality of actually working in a commercial plant. The first impression will be -- (fill in favorite expletive here) this place is HUGE! Then when you first experience commercial radiation and contamination levels the real shock sets in. It has gotten better than it was because most of the nasty, dirty plants are either cleaned up or closed down... but not all of them. Most of the concepts are the same but the scale makes a lot of things largely unreconizable at least at first. There are a lot of pre-conceived notions you will have to let go of... but at the same time there will be familiarity.

It also has a lot to do with where you start. I worked with a technician fresh off the boat that got thrown into the bowels of Pilgim's Radwaste facility in 1978... I would not wish that on my worst enemy. The shock just about sent him out of the utility industry all together. But with a little coaching he got over it and became a very good tech and a good friend as well. If you can't adapt I recommend you go somewhere else, but if you come in expecting to be a bit surprised and you can handle the change, it is still a pretty good industry, IMHO.

Navy experience helps and hurts... adaptability is everything.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2008, 12:34 by RDTroja »
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Fermi2

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #18 on: Jun 12, 2008, 01:38 »
No, you operated a startup source and that's about it.
It might help with the GFE, but usually only the heat transfer part.
You get more in your first two weeks of systems than in your entire Start Up Source experience. Not to mention AOP and EOP training.

Mike

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #19 on: Jun 13, 2008, 01:41 »
Does Navy experience help with plant understanding in a PWR plant more vs. BWR, or does it not really make a difference since we'd have to learn it all from the ground up?  I'm thinking I want to either play in Chem, Radcon, HP or OPs when I get out (or is that what they all say? ).

In my short experience thus far (can't wait to stop with that qualifyer), I have to say that my Navy experience has helped with both (PWR... Palo Verde, BWR... Peach Bottom), a lot. Fission is fission and steam can only turn turbines in a couple of ways. My Navy experience made it possible for me to walk in here and have intelligent converstations with people, as it has really prepared me for understanding how these things work. That said, my Navy experience has done very little to prepare me to actually operate a commercial plant. They are vastly more complicated than a Navy plant and have control systems upon control systems that you have to learn. And you think Navy tech is outdated? HA... come to Peach once. :) On top of learning how to actually operate it, you have to know a million times more paperwork and admin stuff than in the Navy, as well as the federal law. In summary, yes my Navy experience was very helpful in understanding the basics (hot rock), but was barely beneficial in making me able to actually run the place.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2008, 01:42 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #20 on: Jun 13, 2008, 07:57 »
Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from).  Well actually I thank you for giving us all more info from your own perspective.  Are you Direct SRO or you working your way up?
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #21 on: Jun 13, 2008, 11:18 »
Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from).  Well actually I thank you for giving us all more info from your own perspective.  Are you Direct SRO or you working your way up?

Instant SRO.

Justin

Offline Gamecock

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #22 on: Jun 13, 2008, 11:49 »
Justin, I have decided to reject your reality and subsititue my own(I have a feeling that a LOT of nukes are going to know where that comes from). 

 :P  Are you insinuating that you have to be "geeky" to watch Mythbusters???  :P
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #23 on: Jun 13, 2008, 02:10 »
:P  Are you insinuating that you have to be "geeky" to watch Mythbusters???  :P

I did not "hint" or "insinuate" anything, sounds to me like a "geeky" guilty conscience. 

I have maintained that every nuke has at least 1 "geeky" tendency about them, looks like we found GameCock's.  :P
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Gamecock

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #24 on: Jun 13, 2008, 02:22 »
I did not "hint" or "insinuate" anything, sounds to me like a "geeky" guilty conscience. 

I have maintained that every nuke has at least 1 "geeky" tendency about them, looks like we found GameCock's.  :P


If only that were my only one!!

But my kids think I'm cool...well at least my youngest one does!!
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #25 on: Jun 13, 2008, 03:05 »
Well I too have many "geeky" tendencies.  I wanted to name my son Greyson Carlyle(bonus points for whoever knows where this comes from).  I got the Greyson part just different spelling. 

I probably have a lot more than most, but at least I have fun with it.  Hopefully my son will think I am cool for a few years too.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

PapaBear765

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #26 on: Jun 16, 2008, 03:57 »
No, you operated a startup source and that's about it.
It might help with the GFE, but usually only the heat transfer part.
You get more in your first two weeks of systems than in your entire Start Up Source experience. Not to mention AOP and EOP training.

Mike

It's amazing how some people can't handle simple, honest questions.

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #27 on: Jun 16, 2008, 05:00 »
Wowzers in my trousers! No need for conflict here. I am amazed by thought of a NNPP plant as a start-up source. Interesting. I want to play in a big kids' plant.

Fermi2

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #28 on: Jun 16, 2008, 06:11 »
It's amazing how some people can't handle simple, honest questions.


I gave a simple honest answer, in the big leagues the plants put out significantly more than decay heat.

Mike

Fermi2

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #29 on: Jun 16, 2008, 06:12 »
Wowzers in my trousers! No need for conflict here. I am amazed by thought of a NNPP plant as a start-up source. Interesting. I want to play in a big kids' plant.

Your 100% power might be able to roll my feedpump.

Mike

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #30 on: Jun 16, 2008, 06:36 »
For folks your age I particularly like the one we call the young 'uns (NA-YGN) - look at their site and see who sponsors their meetings and events. Yup, those big buck utilities trip over themselves to provide cash and facilities for this group. There will be folks at those meetings you might want to get to know.


Maybe they should have 'Nuclear Renaissance Faires' , complete with jugglers, giant roasted turkey legs, jousting tournaments, fake swordfights, complete with the Ren Faire girls in those lace-up bustiere things! ;)

Perfect event to draw out the World of Warcrack nukes...

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #31 on: Jun 16, 2008, 06:52 »
Your 100% power might be able to roll my feedpump.

Mike

You must be refering to a sub design since A4W has the power output some of the comercial plants.

Nuclear Renaissance

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #32 on: Jun 16, 2008, 07:21 »
You must be refering to a sub design since A4W has the power output some of the comercial plants.

Which reactor - Shippingport? It is my understanding that the A4W puts out about 100 MWe? That's about the amount of decay heat right after a scram at a 1250 MWe BWR/6.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #33 on: Jun 16, 2008, 07:40 »
Isn't there an old saying that goes something like this.....

Guys that have to brag about how large their reactors are are probably trying to make up for shortfalls in other areas!! ;)
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #34 on: Jun 16, 2008, 09:09 »
You're serious about the feed pump?  Don't get me wrong, I am sure the job gets boring, but that's awesome.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #35 on: Jun 16, 2008, 10:33 »
Isn't there an old saying that goes something like this.....

Guys that have to brag about how large their reactors are are probably trying to make up for shortfalls in other areas!! ;)

That's so funny, I had to give Gamecock Positive karma! :)

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #36 on: Jun 16, 2008, 11:17 »

   ..."My question:  Is the nuclear renaissance here, or is it just on the horizon?  Do we have to wait for new plants or for the old folks to retire, or can we take our Navy nuclear training from 6-or-8-and-out to a plant to make money?"...

   ...video google..."future of nuclear power in the us"...

 
 
 

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #37 on: Jun 17, 2008, 07:42 »
Your 100% power might be able to roll my feedpump.

Mike

ROTFLMAO true.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2008, 07:44 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #38 on: Jun 17, 2008, 10:07 »
Hey it's not the size of your Power Output, but what you do with it that counts!!(at least that's what my wife says)
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #39 on: Jun 17, 2008, 10:21 »
Hey it's not the size of your Power Output, but what you do with it that counts!!(at least that's what my wife says)

Only guys with small reactors say that.  :P

Justin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #40 on: Jun 17, 2008, 04:28 »
Having a small reactor means it takes less time to get up....to the top for the control rods.  :-\
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #41 on: Jun 17, 2008, 06:27 »
Having a small reactor means it takes less time to get up....to the top for the control rods.  :-\

Fail. :)

Justin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #42 on: Jun 17, 2008, 07:55 »
There isn't a commercial plant in the country whose MWE is less than the MWE Thermal on an A4W Plant. And when I said your 100% couldn't roll my feedpump I meant a Nimitiz Class plant.

Gamecock LMAO!!! :)

Mike
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2008, 07:56 by Broadzilla »

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #43 on: Jun 17, 2008, 10:32 »
There isn't a commercial plant in the country whose MWE is less than the MWE Thermal on an A4W Plant. And when I said your 100% couldn't roll my feedpump I meant a Nimitiz Class plant.

Gamecock LMAO!!! :)

Mike

Before I make an ass out of my self and try to think of a way to prove this mathematically with the limited information the dod has issued in press releases. I have a question.

Is the MW# for the commercial sites that is posted on various sites (here, wiki, nrc. ect) the MW electricity or the thermal power of the core?

I would also like to say. First of I have no illusions that a naval plant has anywhere near the complexity of the commercial world. I understand that naval experience is only helpful in the basic concepts of commercial nuclear power. I do not believe that my experience in the navy will make me a definite hire for a commercial plant (especially with the quality of nuke that NNPTC is turning out now).  However I find it insulting to refer to United States Navy vessels reactor plants as startup sources. 
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2008, 10:53 by 93-383 »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #44 on: Jun 17, 2008, 11:11 »
Before I make an ass out of my self and try to think of a way to prove this mathematically with the limited information the dod has issued in press releases. I have a question.

Is the MW# for the commercial sites that is posted on various sites (here, wiki, nrc. ect) the MW electricity or the thermal power of the core?

I would also like to say. First of I have no illusions that a naval plant has anywhere near the complexity of the commercial world. I understand that naval experience is only helpful in the basic concepts of commercial nuclear power. I do not believe that my experience in the navy will make me a definite hire for a commercial plant (especially with the quality of nuke that NNPTC is turning out now).  However I find it insulting to refer to United States Navy vessels reactor plants as startup sources. 

Notice them using MWe.. thats MW electrical. For example, Peach puts out about 1300ish MWe at 3514 MW thermal.

And if there was one thing we all learned in the nuke world, it was NOT to put out our buttons.  ;D

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2008, 11:13 by JustinHEMI »

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #45 on: Jun 17, 2008, 11:24 »

   ...very impressive mccain energy policy speech today...

   ...any comments...


Fermi2

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #46 on: Jun 17, 2008, 11:37 »
All three Reactors on which I have held or currently hold SRO Licenses were rated at around 1100 to 1200 MWE. Fermi was rated at 3430 MWth, SQN is 3455 MWth. SQN is a far more efficient plant thermally as it has 7 stages of Feedwater Heating and recovers virtually everything.

So far as you being insulted, shrugs, it's the truth, they're startup sources you being offended does not make it not so. They're decay heat.

Mike

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #47 on: Jun 18, 2008, 06:08 »
Hey we all(guys) played with toy cars and tonka trucks before we moved on to the real thing. Gotta start somewhere.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #48 on: Jun 18, 2008, 08:14 »
   ...very impressive mccain energy policy speech today...

   ...any comments...

This is the speech transcript if you are interested.

I don't like the cap-and-trade idea.  That's just about as much a joke as I have heard in the face of a free market.  The idea of paying for pollution doesn't make any damn sense to me.  The idea of trading carbon credits makes even less sense.  It's not like the money will go to rescue polar bears from ice rafts; it will go into big federal projects.

I do like the Nuclear initiative.  It sounds to me like he should stay in the Senate and introduce legislation to encourage nuclear development (I say this based on the assumption that further plant construction is slowed by the license approval process at the NRC/DOE and the massive amount of capital required to finance construction).

I think it's funny that he mentioned the fact that 66 billion dollars a year go to Iran.  Okay, their total oil revenue is just under a tenth of our military budget.  As bad as the controlling regime may be, they are a third world nation.  Let's just stay out of that one.  Sorry to bring it up.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 08:17 by withroaj »

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #49 on: Jun 18, 2008, 09:27 »
Oh Boy, pass the popcorn...

Well IMHO the reason why there are so many people opposed to Nuclear Power is because there are too few people who actually understand it.  Remember that a lot of people still have Chernobyl, TMI, and the movie "The China Syndrome" on the brain.  Couple that with Hollywoods gross misrepresentation of basic nuclear theory (see just about any movie that has anything to do with nuclear power, although there are exceptions) and you have a lot of people out there that react to nuclear power with pure emotional fear of the unknown.  We have been tought all the perils of radioactive materials during the cold war and the horrors that radiation can cause from case studies of any of the nuclear(bomb and reactors) events of the past.  On board a carrier, non-nukes are often scared to death to see canary suits even if it is a drill.  I have actually seen people refuse to go into the ships store because it was over a reactor and there were Radiation Area plaques inside the store due to an observation window on the floor of the store.  Our captain had to come on ship TV to explain basics to the crew in order to minimize the panic when the EOOW would announce the Rx was Critical during drills.   It is completely irrational, but it is something that we have to overcome as a nation in order to push forward to new forms of energy.  Enviro-hippies scream all day about solar, wind, and other "green" power, but fail to comprehend that in order to produce the same amount of power a nuke plant could you would have to destroy an exponentially larger amount of land to build those "green" power plants. 

Ok who wants the soap box?
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #50 on: Jun 18, 2008, 09:30 »
Our captain had to come on ship TV to explain basics to the crew in order to minimize the panic when the EOOW would announce the Rx was Critical during drills. 

"Captain, the reactor is CRITICAL!!!"

During drills?  Does that mean they weren't there working during the 3AM startup?  Wierd.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 09:33 by withroaj »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #51 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:16 »
About commercial plants being more complex than NNPP plants:  Does that come from an I+C standpoint, or is it mechanical as well?  I have this idea of a plant being a heat source, some boiling somewhere and some turbines.  Throw in a condenser or two for good measure and you've got a plant, right?  ...Right?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #52 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:18 »
I am dealing with the re-education of a bunch of greenie liberal enviro-whacos right now on an outdoors forum I frequent. Of course they are anti-nuke because of the tons and tons of waste we leave behind. I explained to them, and even showed them pictures, of the fact that Peach's spent fuel takes up less than half a football field, and it only takes up that much space because of the conservative NRC distance requirements between casks. I then told them that their pathetic lives have already and will continue to put way more waste in land fills as compared to how much nuclear waste will be left behind. When they had no way to respond to the truth, they then attacked the security of spent fuel and decided it wasn't worth the risk of being stolen by terrorists to make a bomb. So then I had to truth them again about just how much spent fuel they would have to steal to make a bomb, and the logistic near impossibility for them to actually perform a theft from a pad site as far as size of equipment goes if they want to steal several casks, or the cutting equipment they need to break into one, all the while being attacked from all sides by a small army. I also pointed out that the frech re-process their fuel and how often have you heard about theft from their sites? Again, faced with the truth, they fell silent and I am in fact still waiting for their next rebuttal.

Point of all of this is that the public is stupid (particuarly enviro-whacos) and we have the duty to educate them using real facts and science. It can be done, and I think it is being done. A lot of times I direct folks to the NRC website and the CFR when they throw TMI in my face, so that I can better explain the greater scrutiny and control we operate under. The NRC website is a really good tool. I just wish we could send them to the INPO website too. Maybe we can and I just don't know how, so if anyone knows, please tell.

It is a tough, daunting task but it can be done. Its going to take actual nuke workers to do it though, not the corporations.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 10:43 by JustinHEMI »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #53 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:22 »
Maybe we should all get memberships for the Greenpeace forum.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #54 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:33 »
About commercial plants being more complex than NNPP plants:  Does that come from an I+C standpoint, or is it mechanical as well?  I have this idea of a plant being a heat source, some boiling somewhere and some turbines.  Throw in a condenser or two for good measure and you've got a plant, right?  ...Right?

Way wrong. They are far more complicated from both an I&C and mechanical standpoint. You have to remember, most everything is automated in the plant and in order to automate major systems in the 60s and 70s, you had to have these horrendously complicated logic control systems. Sometimes, you have control systems for control systems and so on. I often wonder when the wizard of oz is going to jump out from behind the panels with his pulleys and strings and hamster wheels. You will be amazed at the complexity required to make a bunch of valves do something when any number of signals are sent to them.

As far as mechanics go... well geez... there are literally hundreds of systems, many of which have their own little role in the big picture. Without them, the unit goes offline. I am still in awe everytime I walk down the plant that we humans can build such a beast... and it works...well. It amazes me that something that is my age or more, can operate for 2 years straight without ever going offline. Peach unit 3 has had two back to back breaker to breaker runs and we are working on unit 2's first. Simply, amazing that it is even possible. There are so many things that have to work perfectly together, and I would think the odds are stacked against a unit staying up for an entire fuel cycle... but they do.

These new generation plants will be much much simpler. But that is obviously a function of technology and experience. I can't wait to run one. :)

Justin

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #55 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:39 »
So we're talking control and support systems then?  The fission to electricity process is the same thing, right?  Boil some water and spin a turbine?

Is watchstanding still watchstanding there?  I don't imagine having ERS, ERUL, ERF, ERLL, AEA, RT; but do you still have guys wandering around in the plant checking gages and wiping up oil?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #56 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:52 »
So we're talking control and support systems then?  The fission to electricity process is the same thing, right?  Boil some water and spin a turbine?

Is watchstanding still watchstanding there?  I don't imagine having ERS, ERUL, ERF, ERLL, AEA, RT; but do you still have guys wandering around in the plant checking gages and wiping up oil?

Yes the basics are the same, fission=heat=water to steam=turbine go roundy=generate electricity. :)

The BWR stuff might throw you for a loop a bit, but its not hard when you sit down and give it a few hours. You do have to worry about all of those reactivities you ignored in a NNPP, due to enrichment. And no one cares about Tave anymore. :)

I can only speak from the Peach perspective as far as watch standing. The NLOs here have rounds to do (AKA logs). At the beginning of the day, they download the rounds for the area they are in charge of for the day into their company supplied hand held device using Esoms. The areas are;
Reactor building 2 and 3 (1 NLO each)
Turbine building 2 and 3 (1 NLO each)
Outside/Substation (1 NLO)
Water treatment plant (1NLO)
Rad waste water treatment (1 NLO)

We then have a shift meeting after turnover,  then the NLOs go out and start their rounds. Depending on the day of the week and shift (and physical fitness of the NLO), they can take anywhere from 2-4 hours to complete. On these rounds their priority is tech spec items (federal law stuff) that has to be done and turned into an RO by a certain time. After that, they usually have a routine inspection of a particular system that day. Yes, they read some meters and guages and stuff like that, and log them in their hand helds.  Also, they do minor house keeping like wipe up oil and water on the way.

When their rounds are done, thats it as far as that goes for the day. No hourly logs out here. Things just don't change much or often. In fact, some stuff might go a whole week without being looked at closely.

The rest of their day is spend applying/removing clearanced (tagouts) and other administrative procedures/testing. A lot of their day is spent...well... doing other things.  ;D

Justin

PS If you're curious, our license structure is like this.
4 ROs... one on each unit, one middle or common guy, and a "fourth" RO who handles testing/admin.
3 SROs (4 on day shifts during the work week). 1 SRO = CRS for both units(2, one on each unit on day shfts during the work week), 1 SRO = work control (supervises 4th RO), 1 SRO = floor supervisor (out in the plant). ROs have rounds in the control room.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 10:59 by JustinHEMI »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #57 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:00 »
Sounds awesome.  The whole BWR thing sounds like it would make invasive turbine maintenance a lot bigger job than it would be worth.  I guess all I know is the super-prohibitive NNPP radcon, though.

Does the whole "negative alpha T" (keeping it vague since I don't know what I can say) inherent stability thing still apply to BWR's (or even commercial PWR's for that matter)?  With BWR's you wind up dealing with pressure and void coefficients, too, don't you?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #58 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:08 »
Sounds awesome.  The whole BWR thing sounds like it would make invasive turbine maintenance a lot bigger job than it would be worth.  I guess all I know is the super-prohibitive NNPP radcon, though.

Does the whole "negative alpha T" (keeping it vague since I don't know what I can say) inherent stability thing still apply to BWR's (or even commercial PWR's for that matter)?  With BWR's you wind up dealing with pressure and void coefficients, too, don't you?

Yes, a negative moderator cooefficient is still important, but it can be slightly positives at certain times in core life. Without going deep into commercial rx theory, it does change more drastically over core life too as compared to NNPP. Again that is a function of enrichment. Inherent stability still applies. And yes, in BWR voids are important. :)

As far as work, yes everything is a mess to work on at a BWR. Everything is contaminated. Another thing that was hard for me to adjust to was the RADCON out here. At first, you will think "what the hell are these guys doing?" But then you soon realize that they are very experienced and very good at what they do (the rad tech, mechanics, and such) and what would be blasphemy in the Navy, works perfectly fine out here. They do their jobs well without spreading contamination all over the place. But, because of the way the navy trains us, at first you would think otherwise. LOL The Navy is far too restrictive as far as RADCON and log taking goes. This is another area they could learn a lot from in the commercial world.

You have to remember also that there is a giant money machine attached to the end of the generator. If we did things the navy way, there is no way it would ever be cost effective or feasible to run a nuke plant. Again I always go back to my personal experience..

In the Navy I watch them take damn near a year to flip a couple of valves around. Out here, I watched them replace two gigantic steam generators and refuel the plant in under a month. Our next outtage here is only like 20 days. Amazing.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 11:09 by JustinHEMI »

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #59 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:13 »
And operators operate while maintenance workers do maintenance?  Fiscal and Personnel accountability apply to managing the plant?  No foney baloney training (I guess you never said that, but I can only assume)?  When this Navy thing stops working out for me I think I know where to go.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #60 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:22 »
And operators operate while maintenance workers do maintenance?  Fiscal and Personnel accountability apply to managing the plant?  No foney baloney training (I guess you never said that, but I can only assume)?  When this Navy thing stops working out for me I think I know where to go.

That is correct as far as operators and maintenace. As far as managment... you are going to have douche bags above you no matter where you go, its just that out here, they damage they can do is far more limited than in the Navy. As far as foney training, do you mean will you be asked to push the "i believe" button? Well sometimes, sorry. :) But not often. Look, its not perfect out here simply because humans are still involved and it is nuclear power, after all. There is still BS to deal with and douches to deal with. But at the end of the day, my face hurts from a s**t eating grin, not a dirty scowl and that means a lot to me.  ;D

Justin

PS My discounted company stock is up 4 bucks since last week.  ;D

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #61 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:23 »
Someone else's turn... my hands hurt. LOL

Justin

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #62 on: Jun 18, 2008, 11:27 »
Oh I know that we all work for people who are dumber than we are.  As you said, that goes with human institutions.  What I mean by the improved management aspect is that commercial plants exist for the bottom line, and the company will ensure its profit.  That can keep you from wasteful practices that don't really help anything (3 PAS's every four hours, maybe?).  You also aren't a salary slave, right?  Overtime applies in a big kids' plant.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #63 on: Jun 18, 2008, 12:22 »
Oh I know that we all work for people who are dumber than we are.  As you said, that goes with human institutions.  What I mean by the improved management aspect is that commercial plants exist for the bottom line, and the company will ensure its profit.  That can keep you from wasteful practices that don't really help anything (3 PAS's every four hours, maybe?).  You also aren't a salary slave, right?  Overtime applies in a big kids' plant.

Oh I gotcha. Yes I am a salary slave. Most places I think SRO and up are salaried. ROs and NLOs are hourly.

Justin

Offline 93-383

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #64 on: Jun 18, 2008, 02:08 »
Notice them using MWe.. thats MW electrical. For example, Peach puts out about 1300ish MWe at 3514 MW thermal.

And if there was one thing we all learned in the nuke world, it was NOT to put out our buttons.  ;D

Justin

I withdraw my prior argument.

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #65 on: Jun 18, 2008, 04:11 »
See if you think this is a "Renaissance":

McCain calls for building 45 new nuclear reactors


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91CMB2G0&show_article=1
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #66 on: Jun 18, 2008, 04:51 »
See if you think this is a "Renaissance":

McCain calls for building 45 new nuclear reactors


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91CMB2G0&show_article=1

Now WE need to get the greenies and NIMBYS on board... or out of the way. :)

Justin

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #67 on: Jun 18, 2008, 04:56 »
"Captain, the reactor is CRITICAL!!!"

During drills?  Does that mean they weren't there working during the 3AM startup?  Wierd.

Well it was a 1MC thing for DIW drills.  Never can forget the look on the faces of skittles sitting on the mess decks.  One time we seriously considered having all the nukes just drop their tray and start running towards the plant when they announced the RX was Critical.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #68 on: Jun 18, 2008, 04:58 »
Now WE need to get the greenies and NIMBYS on board... or out of the way. :)

Justin

Can't we just beat them into submission like we do with most of the NUBs that don't agree with us?

Wait got a better idea, just promise them that this will allow more people to purchase a Toyota Prius and start using hemp-fiber shopping bags instead of plastic
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 05:04 by Preciousblue1965 »
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #69 on: Jun 18, 2008, 06:38 »
Can't we just beat them into submission like we do with most of the NUBs that don't agree with us?

Wait got a better idea, just promise them that this will allow more people to purchase a Toyota Prius and start using hemp-fiber shopping bags instead of plastic

That might work, until someone educates them about just how polluting Prius's are. :)

Justin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #70 on: Jun 18, 2008, 08:27 »
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2008, 07:01 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #71 on: Jun 18, 2008, 10:30 »
SQN is a far more efficient plant thermally as it has 7 stages of Feedwater Heating and recovers virtually everything.

Thermodynamically, it very likely recovers 35% of virtually everything. My buddy Carnot sez so.

Yep the Navy plants are commercial plant decay heat. If I take a 3500 Mwt plant and scram it. for the first hour, it will exceed full power for a Navy plant, solely on decay heat.

One Safety Relief Valve is about 6% power on a BWR (and we have a bunch of them) which represents 210 Mwt.

The feedpump case, you'd have to show me. I have seen 22,000 shaft horsepower on a BWR Turbine Driven Reactor Feedwater Pump - "balls out" (which BTW is an ancient woodward governor term to describe maximum speed). Using Hymie Rickover's Thumbrule for Interplanetary Power Conversions...which I have found to be infallible... 
"3,4,5 Kiss Hymies Ass" 3 kW = 4 HP = 5 Amps at 480vac ...
We come to 16.5 Mw for the BWR TDRFP - I know they don't have enough electrical power to get that rolling, but we roll with steam - so IMHO, its a distinct possibility that a submarine plant CAN roll a Turbine Driven Reactor Feedwater Pump but not much else. Sadly, a Steam Jet Air Ejector, Offgas Recombiner Preheat, Gland Seals, and a couple big old honking Condensate and Booster Pumps are also required to roll the TDRFP, and that would probably result in a visit from NRRO and a tough time at the next ORSE.

As a point of historical accuracy Hymie Rickover's Thumbrule for Interplanetary Power Conversion is more correctly 3,4,5,12,Kiss Hymies Ass Daily, with the 12 corresponding to DC Amps at Battery Voltage.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2008, 10:58 by rlbinc »

exocom

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #72 on: Jun 19, 2008, 02:06 »
Preciousblue1965,

Your inner geek is definately showing, as is mine.  BT Gray Death Legion.  Good stories even if the author was what you sit on in person.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #73 on: Jun 19, 2008, 06:13 »
That might work, until someone educates them about just how polluting Prius's are. :)

Justin

D'OH
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #74 on: Jun 19, 2008, 06:16 »
Preciousblue1965,

Your inner geek is definately showing, as is mine.  BT Gray Death Legion.  Good stories even if the author was what you sit on in person.


Ding, Ding, Ding.  I was wondering how long before someone got it.  I am in the process of re-reading all the books I have.
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #75 on: Jun 19, 2008, 07:33 »
More Renaissance stuff from McCain:

Quote
he said he would set the country on a course to build 45 new ones by 2030, with a longer-term goal of adding another 55 in the future


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/18/mccain-calls-for-ample-nuclear-reactor-construction/
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #76 on: Jun 19, 2008, 08:23 »
FYI...the founder of Greenpeace is now pro-nuclear
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/energy/Greenpeace-Founder-We-Must-Go-Nuclear.html

While I am happy to hear anyone open up to the glory of nuke power, this shouldn't come from the Greenpeace founder.  He started the organization to protest the deep underground nuclear weapons testing on Amchitka Island in the Aleutian chain off Alaska (predicting nuke induced tsunamis that would wipe out the West Coast --  I don't have to tell you that didn't happen), and obviously with the nuclear is nuclear mentality, this protest bled into nuclear power.  So, while its good that HE supports nuclear power, what about the whack-job organization he started to oppose it? Would they simply call him another nuclear propagandist?

For the nuclear nerd, I would also like to recommend Peter Kuran's "The Atomic Bomb Collection" on DVD, especially "Trinity and Beyond:  The Atomic Bomb Movie." (Narrated by William Shatner).
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2008, 09:02 by withroaj »

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #77 on: Jun 19, 2008, 09:41 »
Ok, commercial operators laugh at me.  em-log.blogspot.com had a story about a Commodore 64 reactor simulation game called Chernobyl (apparently a PWR simulation even though chernobyl was a whacko BWR plant).  Then this comes up:  http://www.acme-nuclear.com/.  I am stuck on NMCI at this point with home computer problems so I can't download it.  It claims to be a super-detailed BWR simulator.  It sounds really boring as far as spare time computer use goes, but could it be a useful thing to sort of get a grasp on big kids' plant operation?  I am ready to be ridiculed for this question.

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #78 on: Jun 19, 2008, 10:41 »
While I am happy to hear anyone open up to the glory of nuke power, this shouldn't come from the Greenpeace founder.  He started the organization to protest the deep underground nuclear weapons testing on Amchitka Island in the Aleutian chain off Alaska (predicting nuke induced tsunamis that would wipe out the West Coast --  I don't have to tell you that didn't happen), and obviously with the nuclear is nuclear mentality, this protest bled into nuclear power.  So, while its good that HE supports nuclear power, what about the whack-job organization he started to oppose it? Would they simply call him another nuclear propagandist?

I would venture to guess that his coming out in support of nuclear power might cause some of those other nut jobs to reconsider as well.  For what its worth, I had a chance to hear Dr. Moore speak at MIT last year.  He was very good speaker, and I'm glad he's on the right side of this "issue" now.
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #79 on: Jun 19, 2008, 12:03 »
a story about a Commodore 64 reactor simulation game

Finest computer of its time.

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #80 on: Jun 19, 2008, 03:39 »
I have to ask: did Dr. Moore come across as a well meaning objector whose message got blown waay out of proportion by his militant, less intelligent followers in the past?

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #81 on: Jun 19, 2008, 05:01 »
Finest computer of its time.

Ah yes...

Text based Games
5 1/2 inch "floppy" disks
Star Trek The Kobyashi Alternative

and last but not least

Load "Game" ,8,1 Run :'(
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #82 on: Jun 19, 2008, 08:00 »
Ah yes...

Text based Games
5 1/2 inch "floppy" disks
Star Trek The Kobyashi Alternative

and last but not least

Load "Game" ,8,1 Run :'(

Speaking of 5.5 inch floppys, I found a bunch laying around the "computer" (I use that word loosely) room at the plant the other day. I was told they were still very important to plant ops. If that doesn't speak volumes of just how outdated we are, I don't know what does LOL

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2008, 08:01 by JustinHEMI »

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #83 on: Jun 24, 2008, 09:37 »
FYI...the founder of Greenpeace is now pro-nuclear

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/energy/Greenpeace-Founder-We-Must-Go-Nuclear.html

My favorite part in the article is the following:
"And despite such overhyped media creations as Three Mile Island, not a single life in America has ever been lost due to a nuclear malfunction or accident."

Guess they meant commercial nuclear power.  I counted Wikipedia's list of military nuclear accidents and got five dead, two manhattan project and three at SL1.  There are also a disturbingly large number of Soviet "oops, teh reactor blowed up" incidents on the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #84 on: Jun 24, 2008, 10:18 »
There are also a disturbingly large number of Soviet "oops, teh reactor blowed up" incidents on the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents

Since no utility is looking to construct and license SL-1, any RBMKs or VVERs, your point would be what?

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #85 on: Jun 24, 2008, 10:33 »
Since no utility is looking to construct and license SL-1, any RBMKs or VVERs, your point would be what?

Hmmm... it is tough to see what he is saying. At first, I took it as he was supporting the safety record of US commercial power. But now I don't know after reading your post. :)

Justin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #86 on: Jun 25, 2008, 10:11 »
I was commenting on the lack of fact checking the article's writer showed, or the lack of one clarifying word (commercial) which would have made the statement true, and thus made me laugh when I read it.  The Russian comment was because, if you read the list, there are a disturbingly large number of meltdowns and explosions, and cores dumped in some fjord somewhere in the arctic circle.  The list does not have the RBMK accident on it, that one is on a different, much shorter, list.  I just found it interesting to read, and thought someone here might, too.
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #87 on: Jul 01, 2008, 10:23 »
I have another big kids' plant question.  If you can answer it, how is the material condition of those plants?  If you have to be vague, could you compare it to, maybe, NNPP plants of similar ages?  I've seen: 

ex SAM RAYBURN -- keel laid '63
USS ENTERPRISE -- keel laid '58
USS LOUISVILLE -- keel laid '85
NR-1 -- keel laid mid sixties (activated in '69, so I'll call it a '70s plant, giving me the last five decades)
USS VIRGINIA -- keel laid '99

Now that I think about it, the material condition of all the NNPP plants I've seen is pretty good if not amazing for its age(some of the equipment may have a unique "personality," but otherwise...).  Does it work the same in the big kids' world?  You know, nothing looks too shiny and new, but not much looks too old (except, maybe, computer stuff) ?
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2008, 10:42 by withroaj »

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #88 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:06 »
I have another big kids' plant question.  If you can answer it, how is the material condition of those plants?  If you have to be vague, could you compare it to, maybe, NNPP plants of similar ages?  I've seen: 

ex SAM RAYBURN -- keel laid '63
USS ENTERPRISE -- keel laid '58
USS LOUISVILLE -- keel laid '85
NR-1 -- keel laid mid sixties (activated in '69, so I'll call it a '70s plant, giving me the last five decades)
USS VIRGINIA -- keel laid '99

Now that I think about it, the material condition of all the NNPP plants I've seen is pretty good if not amazing for its age(some of the equipment may have a unique "personality," but otherwise...).  Does it work the same in the big kids' world?  You know, nothing looks too shiny and new, but not much looks too old (except, maybe, computer stuff) ?

Why would we have to be vague? We don't pretend that others don't know how to split atoms out here... its all public record. :) Anyway, peach is OLD, and besides some antiquated control systems, material condition is top notch. See, when you have a big money hungry corporation standing at the reigns of the money machine, they want to keep that money machine pumping out. So, they will spend what it takes to keep that money machine pumping. That isn't to say that they don't worry about budget; e.g. we are trying to push our unit 2 rotor beyond its reasonable life time without some GE required inspections. Corporate's basis for this is that we have new rotors on order and they will be here in few years. However, GE and the NRC said no way jose and our outage just got pushed to 30 days. People are scrambling. Unlike the NNPP, you tend to get the parts you need when you need them.

Justin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #89 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:07 »
Why would we have to be vague? We don't pretend that others don't know how to split atoms out here... its all public record. :) Anyway, peach is OLD, and besides some antiquated control systems, material condition is top notch. See, when you have a big money hungry corporation standing at the reigns of the money machine, they want to keep that money machine pumping out. So, they will spend what it takes to keep that money machine pumping. That isn't to say that they don't worry about budget; e.g. we are trying to push our unit 2 rotor beyond its reasonable life time without some GE required inspections. Corporate's basis for this is that we have new rotors on order and they will be here in few years. However, GE and the NRC said no way jose and our outage just got pushed to 30 days. People are scrambling. Unlike the NNPP, you tend to get the parts you need when you need them.

Justin

Sorry had to quote my own post because it was #666 for me so I needed another.

Another thing, my plant is cleaner than any boat I have ever been on.  ;D
Justin

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #90 on: Jul 07, 2008, 02:19 »
Another thing, my plant is cleaner than any boat I have ever been on.  ;D
Justin

That's because you guys have (2) one-hour cleanup periods a day and a 2-6 hour field day on Fridays, right?
 :'(

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #91 on: Jul 08, 2008, 07:19 »
Some places also have these people called......."janitors".  They actually pay people just to clean and nothing else!  Gosh, I sure wonder how these places manage budgets with all the overhead of paying more people to do the work of one person......


Ok I'm done with my sarcasm.

Jason

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #92 on: Jul 09, 2008, 11:47 »
http://blog.heritage.org/2008/07/08/the-economics-of-nuclear-energy/

More hurdles... or are they solutions... or does this article really say nothing? 

EDIT:  This here has the meat and potatoes.  Dry but interesting.  http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/bg2086.cfm
« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2008, 12:06 by withroaj »

Offline Gamecock

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #93 on: Jul 09, 2008, 12:26 »
http://blog.heritage.org/2008/07/08/the-economics-of-nuclear-energy/

More hurdles... or are they solutions... or does this article really say nothing? 

EDIT:  This here has the meat and potatoes.  Dry but interesting.  http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/bg2086.cfm
Good articles.

I know here in the academic world of MIT, there are many folks, including prominent professors in the Nuclear Engineering Department, that are skeptical of the "Nuclear Renaissance."

The problem is the higher capital costs and lifetime levelized costs associated with nuclear power plants compared to conventional coal plants.  So, as in most things, money drives the solution.

It will likely take government interaction in the form of tax incentives and government loan guarantees to make nuclear attractive.

« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2008, 12:31 by Gamecock »
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withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #94 on: Jul 11, 2008, 01:22 »
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33946.pdf

When we look at the Navy's cost/benifit analysis for nuke cruisers and other lightweight skimmers, it seems that cost/barrel of oil is one of the main factors involved in future nuclear ship justification.  I am pretty sure that most fossil burner plants don't use petroleum (I have no background to say this, I just imagine more coal/gas than oil burners), but doesn't rising energy cost across the board begin to justify nuke power financially?

If the Navy can begin to justify more nuke construction with $76/bbl oil (waaay back in 2006), I'd hope that a plant with a profit machine attached would sound more financially solid than a money draining ship.  I guess initial cost for a company "betting the farm" on nuke power is a bigger factor than it is for a government with a money printing press.

matthew.b

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #95 on: Jul 11, 2008, 01:52 »
When we look at the Navy's cost/benifit analysis for nuke cruisers and other lightweight skimmers, it seems that cost/barrel of oil is one of the main factors involved in future nuclear ship justification.  I am pretty sure that most fossil burner plants don't use petroleum (I have no background to say this, I just imagine more coal/gas than oil burners), but doesn't rising energy cost across the board begin to justify nuke power financially?

About 1% of US electricity comes from burning oil.

Steam plants use almost no oil.  It's "almost" because coal plants use oil to light their fire.  They use #2 to light off, and then grow the flame large using #6 oil ("bunker C").  The #6 has to be heated up to pump and burn, so more #2 is burned to preheat the oil.

Most of the oil is used in remote locations in Diesel generators (Alaska villages and other smaller loads) or gas turbines (Hawaii, Puerto Rico).  Some is burned in large mainland gas turbines during cold spells when natural gas is in short supply, but this is a much smaller fraction.

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #96 on: Jul 11, 2008, 01:55 »
Hmm.  So we'll have to wait to run out of coal and gas for nuke to be hip again?

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #97 on: Jul 11, 2008, 02:00 »
I am pretty sure that most fossil burner plants don't use petroleum

Actually, many South and central Florida power plants also are configured to use either Natural gas OR bunker C. Dual-fuel has advantages in competition from suppliers.
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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #98 on: Jul 14, 2008, 09:01 »
commercial nuke power will most likely not be hip again with any Americans North of the Mason Dixon line,
or West of the Pecos,...
JMO

A damn shame, if you ask me.  Especially when you take into account the other "energy alternatives" that are all the rage nowadays.  For example, wind energy (which I am all for if it helps me get a taco with a swipe of a debit card anywhere I go in the country), hailed as the "environmentally friendly" alternative to the great satan's nuclear power, takes up a MASSIVE amount of space for very little power output.  Let's use Horse Hollow in Texas as our wind example.  47,000 acres of land produce 735.5 MWe (wikipedia - take it for what it's worth).  Not bad, I guess.

Now let's look at Turkey Point.  3,300 acres of American Crocodile savin' wildlife preserve, producing about 1500 MWe from good ol' Uranium (again wikipedia, but you fellers would be glad to upgrade me, I'm sure).  I know that the individual footprint of a wind turbine is very small, and I have to say again that I am all for wind power in addition to nuclear if it allows me to pay the electricity bill without crying; but it seems that reactor plants take up a lot less space per MW.

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #99 on: Jul 14, 2008, 02:07 »
A damn shame, if you ask me.  Especially when you take into account the other "energy alternatives" that are all the rage nowadays.  For example, wind energy (which I am all for if it helps me get a taco with a swipe of a debit card anywhere I go in the country), hailed as the "environmentally friendly" alternative to the great satan's nuclear power, takes up a MASSIVE amount of space for very little power output.  Let's use Horse Hollow in Texas as our wind example.  47,000 acres of land produce 735.5 MWe (wikipedia - take it for what it's worth).  Not bad, I guess.

Now let's look at Turkey Point.  3,300 acres of American Crocodile savin' wildlife preserve, producing about 1500 MWe from good ol' Uranium (again wikipedia, but you fellers would be glad to upgrade me, I'm sure).  I know that the individual footprint of a wind turbine is very small, and I have to say again that I am all for wind power in addition to nuclear if it allows me to pay the electricity bill without crying; but it seems that reactor plants take up a lot less space per MW.

If you are talking footprint, you have to consider that there are also 3 gas fired plants on the same land at Turkey Point for a total of 3318 MWe. And the majority of American Crocodiles on the planet.
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withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #100 on: Jul 14, 2008, 02:09 »
I appreciate the upgrade.  Makes my soap box feel that much stronger.

Cathy

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #101 on: Jul 14, 2008, 03:11 »
A damn shame, if you ask me.  Especially when you take into account the other "energy alternatives" that are all the rage nowadays.  For example, wind energy (which I am all for if it helps me get a taco with a swipe of a debit card anywhere I go in the country), hailed as the "environmentally friendly" alternative to the great satan's nuclear power, takes up a MASSIVE amount of space for very little power output.  Let's use Horse Hollow in Texas as our wind example.  47,000 acres of land produce 735.5 MWe (wikipedia - take it for what it's worth).  Not bad, I guess.

Now let's look at Turkey Point.  3,300 acres of American Crocodile savin' wildlife preserve, producing about 1500 MWe from good ol' Uranium (again wikipedia, but you fellers would be glad to upgrade me, I'm sure).  I know that the individual footprint of a wind turbine is very small, and I have to say again that I am all for wind power in addition to nuclear if it allows me to pay the electricity bill without crying; but it seems that reactor plants take up a lot less space per MW.
Wind power is good stuff until the wind quits blowing:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/02/28/power-grid-narrowly-averted-rolling-blackouts/
Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air  :)

Offline RDTroja

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #102 on: Jul 14, 2008, 03:19 »
Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air  :)

Chicago is called 'The Windy City' not because of the weather, but because of the politicians there (it was a political slam by a journalist that coined the nickname.) Maybe we should just set up some wind farms there. Come to think of it, Warren lives there, too. Maybe we could set up at his house.
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Offline retired nuke

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #103 on: Jul 15, 2008, 12:07 »
Wind power is good stuff until the wind quits blowing:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/02/28/power-grid-narrowly-averted-rolling-blackouts/
Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air  :)

Hmmm. how many days are they actually in session - and how many sessions are 1 person reading a speech to an empty stadium....nope, once again, can't find an effective use for them.... :P
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illegalsmile

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #104 on: Jul 15, 2008, 12:28 »
Chicago is called 'The Windy City' not because of the weather, but because of the politicians there (it was a political slam by a journalist that coined the nickname.) Maybe we should just set up some wind farms there. Come to think of it, Warren lives there, too. Maybe we could set up at his house.
I believe the Esteemed Mr. W relocated to The North Shore of Ohio...and I know you can do better than "two Mistakes on the Lake."
 ;)

withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #105 on: Jul 16, 2008, 08:38 »
Hmmm. how many days are they actually in session - and how many sessions are 1 person reading a speech to an empty stadium....nope, once again, can't find an effective use for them.... :P

Now, let's not knock Congress too hard here.  I heard on the news yesterday that Speaker Pelosi is negotiating with China for another loan to get a second economic stimulus check out before the end of the year.  That's taking care of people there.  Don't be cynical.  It's not just election year pandering.   ;)

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #106 on: Jul 16, 2008, 11:06 »
Now, let's not knock Congress too hard here.  I heard on the news yesterday that Speaker Pelosi is negotiating with China for another loan to get a second economic stimulus check out before the end of the year. 

Here is someone that can help her negotiate...



[attachment deleted by admin]

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #107 on: Sep 01, 2008, 11:10 »


   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008

   ...what would be the first solid indication that this, or something even more optimistic, will actually occur...


rlbinc

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #108 on: Sep 02, 2008, 12:34 »
I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.



 

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #109 on: Sep 02, 2008, 01:58 »
I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.



 

   ...do you think this is the most likely scenario...

   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008



Offline Gamecock

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #110 on: Sep 02, 2008, 02:45 »
I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.



 

I agree...orders for the long lead-time items like pressure vessel forgings would be a good sign.  I think there is only one company certified to make those things but I'm not 100% sure of that.

GC
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #111 on: Sep 02, 2008, 03:21 »
   ...what would be the first solid indication that this, or something even more optimistic, will actually occur...

First solid indication of a Nuclear Renaissance, in a more employee friendly 21st century...

Offline retired nuke

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #112 on: Sep 02, 2008, 03:35 »
First solid indication of a Nuclear Renaissance, in a more employee friendly 21st century...

Hmmm, a coupla beers, and maybe a slow heatup...that would cover the short term....  :D
Remember who you love. Remember what is sacred. Remember what is true.
Remember that you will die, and that this day is a gift. Remember how you wish to live, may the blessing of the Lord be with you

rlbinc

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #113 on: Sep 02, 2008, 04:23 »
   ...do you think this is the most likely scenario...

   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008

I think those dates are possible in the US, if stars align correctly.
If we were talking United Arab Emirates, I'd say it's a slam dunk. The difference? UAE will build with cash, not bonds; and without shareholder and intervenor discussion.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #114 on: Sep 02, 2008, 05:07 »


   ...is this strategy undoable...


   ...50 % american electricity from light water reactors by 2030...

   ...reprocessing...

   ...electric cars, electric mass transit...

   ...only air and truck transport remain liquid petroleum...






withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #115 on: Sep 02, 2008, 05:11 »
Come on, all we have to do is honestly educate Americans on the risks and benefits of nukeeler power.  Easy, right?

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #116 on: Sep 02, 2008, 05:47 »
Come on, all we have to do is honestly educate Americans on the risks and benefits of nukeeler power.  Easy, right?

I nominate the Dosimetry Techs to explain the "risks" ;)

rlbinc

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #117 on: Sep 03, 2008, 10:04 »
In 1940, it was visionary to consider harnessing fission for a useful purpose
In 1960, it was visionary to consider US astronauts on the Moon.

You're damn skippy we can get off oil in a decade or two. But we have to commit to it.
Whatever it takes. I'll tell you one thing it will take, is a massive investment in education.
Nobody is talking about that. It will be a main benefit of the energy independence movement.

The late (you knew I'd invoke his ghost) HG Rickover, warned us in the 70's that the decline in education was
the one of the country's greatest vulnerabilities. He thought his program was seeing the early indications
in the declines in NFQT scores and Math abilities observed in NPS pre-school phase.

I called that trend the Teachers Union effect - dumb the students down enough, and they'll always vote for 
the promise of a hand out - because their self sufficiency and confidence has been limited.

I gotta tell you. He was right.
The best thing a nuke can do right now is tutor Math and Science in the public school system.
Teach the teachers how to teach. Then I think we'll have a foundation to work from.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #118 on: Sep 03, 2008, 12:06 »

   ..."You're damn skippy we can get off oil in a decade or two. But we have to commit to it.

      Whatever it takes. I'll tell you one thing it will take, is a massive investment in education.

      Nobody is talking about that. It will be a main benefit of the energy independence movement."

                                                  rlbinc

    ...hopefully, this site will serve as a platform...

    ...searches started at google consistently redirect to nukeworker...

    ...if you hadn't helped me i wouldn't know, as one of many examples, that four of the nineteen bwr model 4's are housed in mark II reactor containment buildings...




   



withroaj

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #119 on: Feb 24, 2009, 01:52 »
So it's been a few months since this discussion died, and just about every avenue of investment has taken a healthy dump.  A major draw to many enlisted folk getting out of the Navy is the idea that the entire nuclear industry is about to retire, leaving thousands of open positions in the commercial world for bitter blue shirts to fill.

It has occurred to me that quite a few folks may have to roll their retirement dates to the right...  Is that the truth?

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #120 on: Feb 24, 2009, 03:40 »
With 401K's drying up like the Sahara what do you think?!?!?!

'cept me, my retirement is not built on 401K's,.... :P

Who still has a 401K?  Last time I checked, I was down to a 200.5K.  :-\ :-\ :-\
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Wydryd99

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #121 on: Feb 26, 2009, 05:50 »
I'd like to throw my .02 into this discussion.  But first off, i have the utmost respect for this forum and the discussions/info available here.

I'm a Navy Nuke and I'd like to ask one of the Civilian guys a question.  Specifically the one's who were talking smack (in a funny way) about our plants. 

What's the top speed of your plant?  Mine goes 30+ kts...

 ;D

 

Offline Marlin

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #122 on: Feb 26, 2009, 06:08 »
What's the top speed of your plant?  Mine goes 30+ kts...

The big Zero...Zip and I think that's the best feature of the civilian plants for most ex Navy Nukes. It makes it easier to get home at the end of a work day.

 8)

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #123 on: Feb 26, 2009, 06:33 »
The big Zero...Zip and I think that's the best feature of the civilian plants for most ex Navy Nukes. It makes it easier to get home at the end of a work day.

 8)

For those of us that are fans of "That 70s Show"  I believe this remark should be followed by just one word.


"BURN" ;D ;D ;D
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Wydryd99

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #124 on: Feb 26, 2009, 07:38 »
 :o

Well stated

Wydryd99

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #125 on: Feb 26, 2009, 08:00 »
Blue, I know your profile picture.  I think I know you from the Stennis.


Grant

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #126 on: Feb 26, 2009, 10:13 »
I'm a Navy Nuke and I'd like to ask one of the Civilian guys a question.  Specifically the one's who were talking smack (in a funny way) about our plants. 

Uh...as if we "civilians" hadn't operated P-type and the nuclear Navy before you arrived (or were born?)  >:(

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #127 on: Feb 27, 2009, 08:03 »
Blue, I know your profile picture.  I think I know you from the Stennis.


Grant

Ah yes you do.  I was a dirty piper mechanic. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Wydryd99

  • Guest
Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #128 on: Feb 28, 2009, 08:33 »
My comment was directed to some discussion several pages back about using a nnpp as a startup source.  Just poking fun back.  No animosity at all from this side.


JustinHEMI05

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #129 on: Mar 01, 2009, 03:36 »
As ridiculously easy as it was to operate a NNPP plant, I have to admit, it was a ton of fun. Purposely putting the plant through transients and casualties.... eh I am being sentimental. Now I have to pretend. :) Someone here once said commercial plants are like big ol freight trains while NNPP plants are like Ferrari's. I now know just how true that is.  ;D

Justin

Offline GLW

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Re: The Nuclear Renaissance
« Reply #130 on: Oct 22, 2015, 11:31 »
So, I'm gonna post this in three places because something has happened which has not happened since nukeworker.com was launched on the internet,...

An operating license has been granted to a commercial nuclear power plant in the US of A.

So, here's a quick set of numbers to let sink in,....

Licensed and Shuttered Synopsis                  
                  
Licensed in 1950's      3       Shuttered in 1950's   0      
Licensed in 1960's      19      Shuttered in 1960's   7      
Licensed in 1970's      59      Shuttered in 1970's   7      
Licensed in 1980's      47      Shuttered in 1980's   6      
Licensed in 1990's      5       Shuttered in 1990's   9      
Licensed in 2000's      0       Shuttered in 2000's   0      
Licensed in 2010's      1       Shuttered in 2010's   5      
                  

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

 


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