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PapaBear765

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #25 on: Dec 13, 2008, 08:15 »
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I'm unhappy about my eval

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Offline deltarho

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #26 on: Dec 13, 2008, 10:48 »
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,14301.msg80198.html#msg80198

So, you don't get the recognition you think you deserve?  Sometimes, people are watching when you don't realize it. Sometimes, recognition comes in different shapes and colors. Always do your best, regardless of your perceived circumstances and show that you can persevere. You may end up ahead of the game...

By the way, I was disqualified Nuc at ET "A" because I misunderstood the criteria. It was stated that you had to be top 2/3 of your class by the class cutoff to stay as a designated nuke. We started with 26 students and I coasted and ranked 15. You would think that using RadCon math that top 2/3 would be 16 and better, so at 15 I was golden.

Nay, Nay, Moosebreath! We lost 10 students by the cutoff, so the calculation was based on the 16 still present, not the 26 we started with, which meant I needed to rank 10 or better.

I could have been sorely peeved at everyone else for not explaining things clearly from the get go, with all possible variations and caveats. I could have expended mass amounts of energy to protest and got nowhere. 

What I did do was buckle down and score a 90% or better on everything for the next 12 weeks. I also wrote a letter to Adm. Rickover and explained that I had failed to meet expectations because of my immaturity. I further explained that I was coasting to save myself for NPS, but this event's lesson taught me to always do well. I told him that my future scores would show evidence of my conversion and that if he that his school could teach it, I could learn it.

I was reinstated, but my low overall average 80.12 (my fellow nukes were 93 and above)followed me through the pipeline and made things rough for me. It took me getting out of the pipeline to shed that monkey, but I stayed determined.

How bad do you want it?
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #27 on: Dec 15, 2008, 08:28 »
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,14301.msg80198.html#msg80198

So, you don't get the recognition you think you deserve?  Sometimes, people are watching when you don't realize it. Sometimes, recognition comes in different shapes and colors. Always do your best, regardless of your perceived circumstances and show that you can persevere. You may end up ahead of the game...

By the way, I was disqualified Nuc at ET "A" because I misunderstood the criteria. It was stated that you had to be top 2/3 of your class by the class cutoff to stay as a designated nuke. We started with 26 students and I coasted and ranked 15. You would think that using RadCon math that top 2/3 would be 16 and better, so at 15 I was golden.

Nay, Nay, Moosebreath! We lost 10 students by the cutoff, so the calculation was based on the 16 still present, not the 26 we started with, which meant I needed to rank 10 or better.

I could have been sorely peeved at everyone else for not explaining things clearly from the get go, with all possible variations and caveats. I could have expended mass amounts of energy to protest and got nowhere. 

What I did do was buckle down and score a 90% or better on everything for the next 12 weeks. I also wrote a letter to Adm. Rickover and explained that I had failed to meet expectations because of my immaturity. I further explained that I was coasting to save myself for NPS, but this event's lesson taught me to always do well. I told him that my future scores would show evidence of my conversion and that if he that his school could teach it, I could learn it.

I was reinstated, but my low overall average 80.12 (my fellow nukes were 93 and above)followed me through the pipeline and made things rough for me. It took me getting out of the pipeline to shed that monkey, but I stayed determined.

How bad do you want it?

Wasn't that originally referred to as "shooting the gap"????

I heard about it once from an old salty nuke back on the USS Usedtofish. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline deltarho

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #28 on: Dec 15, 2008, 09:23 »
Wasn't that originally referred to as "shooting the gap"????

I heard about it once from an old salty nuke back on the USS Usedtofish. 
NEVER have I heard the term "shooting the gap." I called it shooting my own foot. The only help I got was from the Nuc Advisor at the conventional "A" school. All I remember (besides his name, which I will say only his first and middle name was Senior Chief) was looking at him with his mustache that looked like a miniature foxtail broom under his nose tell me that I have two choices, IBM (instant Botswains Mate) or sign on for AEF (Advanced Electronic Field).

I told him that I joined to be a nuke and wanted nothing more. That's when he finally informed me of the hoops, hurdles and bj's needed to try for reinstatement, which he never saw anyone get during his tour.

My roommate, who later went on to class 8007, when I was in phase three of "A" school read my  letter to Himey and thought it was "Mom, Apple Pie, and Chevrolet."

He was later surprised to see me walking Rickover Circle in Orlando--his classmates didn't get reinstated.

I coasted with the multiple guess questions, knocking out 2 of 4 choices because English is my first language:

This fault is due to an:

(A) Shorted Resistor R-15
(B) Open foil run
(C) Crowbar SCR
(D) Reversed bias on Transistor Q-4

an...followed by vowel
a...followed by consonent

Imagine my chagrin when hitting NPS with the "Briefly describe in detail the operatior of the Magnetic Amplifier, show a typical Hysteresis loop."  2-pts

Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end, la, la, la, la--la, la, la, la, la, laaaa.
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #29 on: Dec 15, 2008, 09:44 »
NEVER have I heard the term "shooting the gap." I called it shooting my own foot. The only help I got was from the Nuc Advisor at the conventional "A" school. All I remember (besides his name, which I will say only his first and middle name was Senior Chief) was looking at him with his mustache that looked like a miniature foxtail broom under his nose tell me that I have two choices, IBM (instant Botswains Mate) or sign on for AEF (Advanced Electronic Field).

I told him that I joined to be a nuke and wanted nothing more. That's when he finally informed me of the hoops, hurdles and bj's needed to try for reinstatement, which he never saw anyone get during his tour.

My roommate, who later went on to class 8007, when I was in phase three of "A" school read my  letter to Himey and thought it was "Mom, Apple Pie, and Chevrolet."

He was later surprised to see me walking Rickover Circle in Orlando--his classmates didn't get reinstated.

I coasted with the multiple guess questions, knocking out 2 of 4 choices because English is my first language:

This fault is due to an:

(A) Shorted Resistor R-15
(B) Open foil run
(C) Crowbar SCR
(D) Reversed bias on Transistor Q-4

an...followed by vowel
a...followed by consonent

Imagine my chagrin when hitting NPS with the "Briefly describe in detail the operatior of the Magnetic Amplifier, show a typical Hysteresis loop."  2-pts

Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end, la, la, la, la--la, la, la, la, la, laaaa.


According to my old salty friend back on the USS Usedtofish,  "shooting the gap" was a term that was used by those individuals that originally made it into nuke school, but soon realized that they wanted no part of it.  If you scored >2.5 you were considered "passed" for A school but you had to get >2.8 to move on to Power school.  If you scored in between you still got your "crow" and your rating but you got sent out as a conventional.  Since it was considered against the UCMJ for purposely failing out of A school(not to mention that some of the options weren't much better than being a nuke) it was much easier and more lucrative to "shoot the gap" between 2.5 and 2.8 and get E4 and a guaranteed rate. 

Once again this might be an old salt's shore story, but he seemed to be pretty credible.  I think this might have gone on during the mid 80s. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #30 on: Dec 15, 2008, 10:05 »
According to my old salty friend back on the USS Usedtofish,  "shooting the gap" was a term that was used by those individuals that originally made it into nuke school, but soon realized that they wanted no part of it.  If you scored >2.5 you were considered "passed" for A school but you had to get >2.8 to move on to Power school.  If you scored in between you still got your "crow" and your rating but you got sent out as a conventional.  Since it was considered against the UCMJ for purposely failing out of A school(not to mention that some of the options weren't much better than being a nuke) it was much easier and more lucrative to "shoot the gap" between 2.5 and 2.8 and get E4 and a guaranteed rate. 

Once again this might be an old salt's shore story, but he seemed to be pretty credible.  I think this might have gone on during the mid 80s. 


What you are referring to was NFAS policy back in the day, not the conventional A' School policy that DR is referring to.  The policy was actually 2.75 or higher to go to NNPS, 2.5 to 2.74 you got your thrid class crow and were sent to the fleet as a conventional.  Want to know how I know this???

Young FN Gamecock had a 2.70 heading into the NFAS comp.  I think I needed something on the order of 3.05 to get my 2.75 and move on to NNPS.  I made a 3.12 and survived NFAS.  I did significantly better at NNPS and then NPTU.
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Offline deltarho

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #31 on: Dec 16, 2008, 10:15 »
What you are referring to was NFAS policy back in the day, not the conventional A' School policy that DR is referring to.  The policy was actually 2.75 or higher to go to NNPS, 2.5 to 2.74 you got your thrid class crow and were sent to the fleet as a conventional.  Want to know how I know this???

Young FN Gamecock had a 2.70 heading into the NFAS comp.  I think I needed something on the order of 3.05 to get my 2.75 and move on to NNPS.  I made a 3.12 and survived NFAS.  I did significantly better at NNPS and then NPTU.

Correct sir, about the correcting my ET"A" School requirements when conducted at Great Lakes!

Also correct (with a few caveats) for 2.5 to 2.74 as passed NFAS, but do not cross the sidewalk to NNPS.

Once upon a time there were three little bears.  The MM bear, the EM bear, and the ET bear. In order for the three bears to graduate NFAS, they had to score a 2.5 or above. Those bears who scored 2.5 would move over to their new cave at NNPS. All the other bears were slaughtered and their pelts auctioned off on eBay.

Then one day, it was realized that just because a bear may pass NFAS that it wasn't a good predictor that they might be able to go on to NNPS and pass; their failure rate there was astronomical!  So, the stuff ran down hill and it was determined that the poor success rate at NNPS was the fault of NFAS sending misfit bears. NFAS was told to raise the score needed to graduate (notice that the "F" word [filter] was not used). But, NFAS said that it wasn't fair to the bears to not let them graduate from NFAS after all their training. Moreover that even though they might not be a nuc, they would make a fine conventional bear; so, we would not punish them for their "hard" work that fell a wee short.

With this in mind, "they" looked at the history of all the bears from the past to see what the lowest average graduating score was from NFAS that had 100% graduating from NNPS later. This was not analogous to a filter found in fluid systems, but it was a modified choke in a shotgun.

"They" found that not all bears were created equal; the lowest average graduating NFAS score depended on whether a bear was an EM, ET, or MM bear. For lack of a photographic memory, the best I remember was that an MM bear needed to average about a 3.3 at NFAS to show that it would graduate NNPS 100% of the time; an EM bear was about a 3.13; and an ET bear needed a 2.75. The theory behind the wide range was that the longer a bear was at NFAS, the better the study habits and test taking wiseness became that were vital for success at NNPS.

So, the scale was changed at NFAS so that all the bears with an average greater than a 2.5 would graduate and so that those bears with a score of 2.75 and above would move to the NNPS cave, whether an EM bear, MM bear, or ET bear (remember, we were not a filter).

Low and behold more bears graduated NNPS and NFAS with the change. For NFAS it was probably due to the "Gap Theory" posted elsewhere, which reduced the number of bears that went to slaughter. This increased the overall profits from eBay with the market not saturated with pelts............it never ends.
« Last Edit: Dec 16, 2008, 10:22 by deltarho »
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #32 on: Dec 16, 2008, 10:35 »
Correct sir, about the correcting my ET"A" School requirements when conducted at Great Lakes!


Once upon a time there were three little bears.  The MM bear, the EM bear, and the ET bear. In order for the three bears to graduate NFAS, they had to score a 2.5 or above. Those bears who scored 2.5 would move over to their new cave at NNPS. All the other bears were slaughtered and their pelts auctioned off on eBay.
<br>
So, the scale was changed at NFAS so that all the bears with an average greater than a 2.5 would graduate and so that those bears with a score of 2.75 and above would move to the NNPS cave, whether an EM bear, MM bear, or ET bear (remember, we were not a filter).

Low and behold more bears graduated NNPS and NFAS with the change. For NFAS it was probably due to the "Gap Theory" posted elsewhere, which reduced the number of bears that went to slaughter. This increased the overall profits from eBay with the market not saturated with pelts............it never ends.

That's funny.... ;D
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Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #33 on: Dec 16, 2008, 11:03 »
Just to clarify, the term "shooting the gap" was explained to me to be the process of students who did not want to continue their nuclear training yet wanted to keep that E4 promotion and minimize the chances of being accused of purposely failing out.  They would intentionally shoot for an overall GPA between 2.5 and 2.75, that way if anyone accused them of intentionally trying to fail the program to get out of the program they could argue that they at least had passed the program as such. 
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

PapaBear765

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #34 on: Dec 16, 2008, 04:34 »

Low and behold more bears graduated NNPS and NFAS with the change. For NFAS it was probably due to the "Gap Theory" posted elsewhere, which reduced the number of bears that went to slaughter. This increased the overall profits from eBay with the market not saturated with pelts............it never ends.


Actually, from the recent Back-To-Basics report it has a good portion dedicated to the "history of the program" wherein it has graphs that show attrition for NPS and NPTU are unchanged while NFAS had the dramatic drop from ~60% down to 30-40% post grassy knoll speech in the '90s.  If there's less attrition in NFAS, then there's more students in the NPS class, and therefore more graduated students...if that's what you meant.

Offline deltarho

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Re: Contesting EVALS?
« Reply #35 on: Dec 17, 2008, 03:44 »
This may be the fuzzy math used to substantiate what you saw in those graphs--makes sense, it that is how they wanted to present the statistics.
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

 


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