I need, a lot, of help.

[talitore]

Hello, I have a few questions.

At my two year point, I did what a lot of Navy Nukes do, I star re-enlisted. I got an SRB in the amount of ~$48k.
That's about 19k up front, after taxes. Shortly after, 6 months maybe, I was discharged, Honorably, do to an Alcohol treatment, failure.

As I'm sure you've guesses, I got a check in the mail, for about 28,000, owed to the DoD. I'm guessing my initial bonus was added in there.

I am 22, husband, and father of one. I did pick up a decent job working at the county water plant, making about $20/hr.

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

I have not searched these forums for an answer to my question, I apologize if it has been answered before. I really don't have the time to look. Wife and I are working off hours of each other to prevent a babysitter.

Thanks in advanced.

[thenukeman]

Harsh But true Broadzilla.  I seen sometimes  a person needs to be kicked 3 or 4 times to the ground to finally get back up on their own.  There should be some local VA support, plus check on the net.  Dial some numbers until you get somebody that can help.  Bankruptcy from this may be an option , but hey I am not a lawyer.  If I was in your situation and just got out in your situation that is what I would do.  But I do not know your exact situation but basically 28,000 out of 120,000 is a chunk.  You could write them back tell them your situation and ask them to extend it to 6 years and work out a payment and see what they say. I bet they rather get the money than write it off.   

[talitore]

It is about taking care of my wife who has done a second round of chemo. Money is nill to that.

[thenukeman]

Like I said I do not know your situation. Write them telling them your situation would be my first option.  Suggest a payment that is reasonable.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I don't speak directly from the same experience you have, just many years of living.  It sounds like you got a bill rather than a check.  I don't know of any way to reduce or eliminate what you owe.  What you probably need to do is to sit down and figure your finances and see what you CAN afford monthly. 

In life, most anything is negotiable.  The main thing to know is the answer to any questions you'll be asked.  While I'm sure you're a nice guy that won't get you anywhere when negotiating with a creditor which is what you're doing.  Are they offering you repayment without interest if you repay within the 3 years?  If so you may not get the same offer if you are able to extend the payoff time.  You also need to understand and accept that you won't get an income tax refund UNTIL the debt is repaid.  Uncle Sam will get his back ahead of anyone else, that is guaranteed.

Bottom line, you owe it and you'll have to pay it back.  Figure your budget to see how quickly you can pay it back before you call them and most of all, DON'T put it off!  You might be able to take a week, from the time you received your notice, but I wouldn't wait any longer than that.  This is a case of being pro-active and saving your credit rating. 

I understand your situation somewhat also.  23 1/2 years ago I had just started at my present job, my first with benefits.  14 days after I started my benefits I found out my stepson had leukemia.  I fully understand that it brings your world to a screeching halt and very little else matters.  People are still understanding and will take your situation into account.  The main thing is to communicate early and often.  I am also a recovering alcoholic and celebrated 21 years sober last month.  Keep your support network close especially during this time. This is some advice I cold have really used 22 years ago.  I'll be keeping you and yr family in my prayers.

Don't mind Broadzilla.  He's just one of the great assets this site has and just has the expectation that people do some of their own research first. 

Peace,
Tom

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ..."I am 22"...

   ...you are rich...

   ...you just don't know it...

   ...these are the times that, looking back, will give you the greatest sense of satisfaction and purpose...

   ...i wish i were you and had it to do all over again...

   ..."if i could give you anything it would be a passion for anything or any body that could go the distance. I never had the strength to fail with you. I missed so much." Bernard Slade, The Tribute...






 

[talitore]

I just don't understand how they can expect someone to pay that amount of money back, in that little of time. Especially considering it was an honorable, and I was getting discharged in the first place.

[93-383]

20K$ repay in 36 months is around mid 500’s. That’s a big chunk of change but you probably need to figure out a way to do it. If your finances are truly in dire straights talk to an attorney. Don’t go to a dept buying service, currently you probably have no interest on the “loan” so pay it back in the 36 month time frame. If you do not pay it back it is likely that the IRS will take action to collect and that will ruin your credit rating (so will bankruptcy)

[wlrun3@aol.com]

I just don't understand how they can expect someone to pay that amount of money back, in that little of time. Especially considering it was an honorable, and I was getting discharged in the first place.

   ..."living well is the best revenge"... Frank Sinatra

[PapaBear765]

Wow, if there's something I care more about than anything else is someone who screws up their life, via alcohol no less.  And this person can't even spell or write a complete sentence.

You're a nuke (were a nuke), you therefore sat in the the BEQ room at NNPTC for a week after graduating A School...it was called "Prevent."  Remember all of the inane things you were told that would help you in your life...like not drinking and driving, like not getting plastered the night before duty/work, etc.

I concur with Mike, your problem is your problem.  Don't post here expecting us to give you a hug and tell you that you're getting the shaft.  You're not.  You did this to yourself.

Good luck, get yourself some help.

[JustinHEMI05]

Hello, I have a few questions.

At my two year point, I did what a lot of Navy Nukes do, I star re-enlisted. I got an SRB in the amount of ~$48k.
That's about 19k up front, after taxes. Shortly after, 6 months maybe, I was discharged, Honorably, do to an Alcohol treatment, failure.

As I'm sure you've guesses, I got a check in the mail, for about 28,000, owed to the DoD. I'm guessing my initial bonus was added in there.

I am 22, husband, and father of one. I did pick up a decent job working at the county water plant, making about $20/hr.

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

I have not searched these forums for an answer to my question, I apologize if it has been answered before. I really don't have the time to look. Wife and I are working off hours of each other to prevent a babysitter.

Thanks in advanced.

Number one, learn how to use commas.

Number two, call DFAS. They are very helpful and will be willing to work with you to set up a more feasible pay back plan. I had several young sailors with overages that had to be paid back, and DFAS was willing to work with them every time.

As far as you not paying back to the Country that which you owe, good luck on that. You didn't earn the money therefore you should, and in all likelihood will, have to pay it all back.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

20K$ repay in 36 months is around mid 500’s. That’s a big chunk of change but you probably need to figure out a way to do it. If your finances are truly in dire straights talk to an attorney. Don’t go to a dept buying service, currently you probably have no interest on the “loan” so pay it back in the 36 month time frame. If you do not pay it back it is likely that the IRS will take action to collect and that will ruin your credit rating (so will bankruptcy)

That is not entirely true. They will charge interest on the debt owed, although it will not be much. 3-4%.

Justin

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I just don't understand how they can expect someone to pay that amount of money back, in that little of time. Especially considering it was an honorable, and I was getting discharged in the first place.

I'm sure if you check your paperwork that you've got language in there that specifies that you'll have to pay it back if you don't fulfill your obligation.  (Your reenlistment period)  That being said, work your way toward acceptance of your situation and then accept the advice given.  Read past those reminding you that you've made a mistake and show that you're ready to take responsibility for your actions. 

At this point in your life that is a ton of money to pay back, especially in that short of a time period.  Get in touch with your creditor, explain your situation, do your homework ahead of time, and see what you can work out.   Listen to Marssim, he is another of the great assets here.

[93-383]

That is not entirely true. They will charge interest on the debt owed, although it will not be much. 3-4%.

Justin

That kinda sucks.

Like others have said contact DFAS work out a payment plan DO NOT IGNORE this problem it will only get worse.

[NJ]

I commend you on asking for help.  I think there are some hard statements here that are true and some harsh.  You have a lot on your plate with your wife being ill and a young child.  The first thing you need to do is get into an AA group this is your first step.  You are young and can pick yourself up by the boot straps and make the best of your situation.  I was married to an Alcoholic and it is not what your wife needs now.  She has enough to worry about without worrying about you and what would happen to your little child.  She needs to know she can count on you to be there for her and the baby and if she doesn't make it you will be a rock.  The money will work out itself just make arrangements. Nothing is as important as your family. 
This man needs some support not criticism on his problem or his sentence structure.
Good luck to you and God bless you.

[JustinHEMI05]

This man needs some support not criticism on his problem or his sentence structure.

Actually, he needs both.

Justin

[xobxdoc]

The Navy has or used to have a thing called Waiver of Indebtedness. I heard of this when the Navy breached my re-enlistment contract and I got out early. I paid back my bonus I wasn't entitled to but I knew of guys that utilized this. It sounds like you need an attorney that deals in Military affairs if your situation is the way you say. Sorry, I don't trust what alcoholics have to say. If what you say is true about your wife, get control of your life and do what is right for your family. Alcoholics suck the life out of themselves and everyone around them.

[Wanna Know Mom]

You have been given some good advice,Talitore. Hope you consider it.  I do have a suggestion for others who have just enlisted for Navy Nuke:  Consider investing every penny of your bonuses (sign on, previous college education, STAR, etc).  If you are not career Navy, don't plan to use this $$ until you have completed your oblígated service and have your DD214 in hand. If for any reason you must pay it back, it will be sad to see it go, but will not cause financial hardship. And, what a nice lump $$ to resume your civillian life with!     Kathy, VPNM

[talitore]

Thing is, I never started drinking until my wife was diagnosed with cancer. I know I f****d up. I don't need gun-ho punks to try and act like they know what I'm talking about and criticize me. The bigger problem is that all the money is gone. I payed for some experimental help that the Navy wouldn't cover.

If anyone here who is criticizing me thinks they know what they are talking about, stop it. You don't. I gave little information being a first post. I didn't ask for an argument, I asked for help. If you cannot give any, don't post.

Everyone who did try to help, thank you. I am looking into options now. I called DFAS, and they will set up a payment plan. They want me to pay 100 dollars/month and renew the plan every 6 months. That's barely enough to cover the 4% interest.

[thenukeman]

Good for you, Try to pay a little more than that a month to pay it off sooner.  Some of the people who are kicking you are trying to help  you at the same time.  I hate to say it  but about 50 percent of the people who get in a similar situation as you fall off the wagon and do more self destruction. Hopefully the Navy did you a favor by kicking you out.  I was an Officer in the Army. I covered  for my alcoholics more than I should have. I was a weak officer and should have looked at my higher ups for their examples.  They were tough and mean Colonels and Generals Who I thought were A holes being a Officer in my 20's.  But now I see for the most part they were right.  Some of the poster here do not want to be enablers and say how mean of the navy the navy sucks etc. Do you need a hug to feel better etc. Well it was your own demise, get use to it.  I hope you shape up and have a good life. Tell us in  six months and a year how you are doing.

[talitore]

No, you said you needed us to research YOUR financial problem because you didn't have the time. My take on that statement is who is this child and why should I care about a problem that isn't mine if he can't take the time to try to solve it himself. Plus the alcoholism, it's weak, I have no empathy for it regardless of the "cause".

Mike

Then don't respond. Easy.

[NJ]

I'm glad you contacted the DASF and have worked out a plan..Now you need to concentrate on your drinking problem.  Go to an AA meeting and get a sponsor.  Going the first time is tough but you have to help yourself.  I can remember my daughter crying her eyes out because her daddy went to jail.  Its hard for the mom to explain this..I also worried he would kill someone on his way home or himself.  Going to AA is not like this site..they are helpful and supportive.  BZ and others  you need to chill out on this man..he asked for help not for you to research his problem. This is an illness not just a f***up.
Best wishes and God Bless
NJ

[JustinHEMI05]

Everyone who did try to help, thank you. I am looking into options now. I called DFAS, and they will set up a payment plan. They want me to pay 100 dollars/month and renew the plan every 6 months. That's barely enough to cover the 4% interest.

See, told you! At least it is something for now, until you can make more and more payments. At least you won't get in trouble. Congrats. I will pray for you and your wife too. But, don't be a douche. There are many people here that have gone through similar OR WORSE without further burdening the situation with alcohol, so if you can't take some criticism, grow up. Otherwise, keep holding out hope and being strong for your wife. That is the best thing you can be for he now.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

I'm glad you contacted the DASF and have worked out a plan..Now you need to concentrate on your drinking problem.  Go to an AA meeting and get a sponsor.  Going the first time is tough but you have to help yourself.  I can remember my daughter crying her eyes out because her daddy went to jail.  Its hard for the mom to explain this..I also worried he would kill someone on his way home or himself.  Going to AA is not like this site..they are helpful and supportive.  BZ and others  you need to chill out on this man..he asked for help not for you to research his problem. This is an illness not just a f***up.
Best wishes and God Bless
NJ

Don't start on the illness BS. AA did nothing to save my brother from that drunk driving a$$hole.

Justin

[thenukeman]

Some Illness need a Good A Hole kickin in addition to other help. Enabling does not help.  I think this goes for Alcoholics, Druggies, Gamblers, Child Molesters, BiPolar, Attention defecit disorder etc.  I just wonder how many kids in school are called ADHD or BiPolar who just need a good parents and not enablers.  How many Druggies, Alcoholics, Gamblers would have been helped more by people saying it is your fault and you need to help yourself  before anyone can help you.  But with todays permissive society it is someone elses fault if you make a bad choice.

Talitore's last response,  Then don't respond. Easy.

Makes me believe he still does not get it and is in denial of his problem.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Don't start on the illness BS. AA did nothing to save my brother from that drunk driving a$$hole.

Justin

Justin,

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.  This does not make all alcoholics a**holes, though I know that I fall into that category much of the time myself.  Having hit the peak of my drinking when during the time that my stepson's leukemia progressed and soon after his death.  This lasted a little over a year after his death until I had my epiphany and realized that my choices were drink & die or quit & live.  My personal opinion is that it is an illness and if you care to discuss that I'll be more than happy to via PM. 

Back to the subject at hand, if you have useful advice give it.  If you're just interested in piling on and projecting your personal anger on someone looking for advice (Not singling you out Justin.  I respect you far too much for that) then type it out in your word processing program, get it out of your system, and delete it.  Though some of my experiences run close to talitore's I'd never assume that I can understand completely how he feels.  None of us should either.  You know what they say about assuming.

As to his last response meaning he's in denial, my take is that he's got enough going on without putting up with any extraneous sanctimonious pontification.  I find it difficult to believe the ragging he's receiving given the reason that he spent the money.  He could be in denial nukeman, or he just be tired with all that's on his plate.   

[thenukeman]

True he could be overloaded.  I hope he is not in denial.  He has taken the first step and got his money pay back situation under control.  hopefully he can get the rest of his life under control.

[JustinHEMI05]

Justin,

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.  This does not make all alcoholics a**holes, though I know that I fall into that category much of the time myself.  Having hit the peak of my drinking when during the time that my stepson's leukemia progressed and soon after his death.  This lasted a little over a year after his death until I had my epiphany and realized that my choices were drink & die or quit & live.  My personal opinion is that it is an illness and if you care to discuss that I'll be more than happy to via PM. 

Back to the subject at hand, if you have useful advice give it.  If you're just interested in piling on and projecting your personal anger on someone looking for advice (Not singling you out Justin.  I respect you far too much for that) then type it out in your word processing program, get it out of your system, and delete it.  Though some of my experiences run close to talitore's I'd never assume that I can understand completely how he feels.  None of us should either.  You know what they say about assuming.

As to his last response meaning he's in denial, my take is that he's got enough going on without putting up with any extraneous sanctimonious pontification.  I find it difficult to believe the ragging he's receiving given the reason that he spent the money.  He could be in denial nukeman, or he just be tired with all that's on his plate.   

I am not talking about alcoholics... just drunk drivers that were "in the program" but drank and drove anyway. But, that is neither here nor there. You are correct, I think we got off on a tangent here, and I apologize.  This has the potential of erupting into something we don't want, with the many different emotions surrounding this topic. We should stay on topic and offer him advice only about his financial situation, which is all he asked for.

But I did not piled on him about his alcoholism. My emotion was directed towards someone else, as I respect the fact that he is seeking help for he and his family. I only offered good advice which he took... and worked.

Justin

[PapaBear765]

Justin,

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.  This does not make all alcoholics a**holes, though I know that I fall into that category much of the time myself.  Having hit the peak of my drinking when during the time that my stepson's leukemia progressed and soon after his death.  This lasted a little over a year after his death until I had my epiphany and realized that my choices were drink & die or quit & live.  My personal opinion is that it is an illness and if you care to discuss that I'll be more than happy to via PM. 

Back to the subject at hand, if you have useful advice give it.  If you're just interested in piling on and projecting your personal anger on someone looking for advice (Not singling you out Justin.  I respect you far too much for that) then type it out in your word processing program, get it out of your system, and delete it.  Though some of my experiences run close to talitore's I'd never assume that I can understand completely how he feels.  None of us should either.  You know what they say about assuming.

As to his last response meaning he's in denial, my take is that he's got enough going on without putting up with any extraneous sanctimonious pontification.  I find it difficult to believe the ragging he's receiving given the reason that he spent the money.  He could be in denial nukeman, or he just be tired with all that's on his plate.   

I think the lad's been given sufficient advice, and tough love, to navigate his way to success.  Now, if the discussion takes a turn towards some tangent, then let it be.  You moderators have a nasty problem of trying to fence in a discussion when it's obvious that more than a couple of people are interested in the tangent.

I have no sympathy for alcoholics.  For decades now society has been educated on the side affects of too much alcohol.  And people continue to ignore the warnings.  Therefore, it's not a disease (or any other cop out), it's a choice.  A choice to do what you're told is unwise.

No one needs to take it easy on this guy.  That might have been the problem with his life until now: no one telling him like it is.  No one telling him flat out he's in the wrong, that he's f.ing up his life.  Maybe all of us being so blunt about this issue will wake him up.  Just a thought.

[xobxdoc]

This guy asked for "a lot of help". Right now his money issues are secondary. His wife faces a battle with cancer and she doesn't need to be dealing with a drunk. She has the disease, not him! Since 1985 I have been on the receiving end of an alcoholics abuse and it continues because I have to explain somehow to my 9 year son why his mother only comes by to see him every few months.
I agree with Papa Bear. I have no sympathy for alcoholics. And they can use some "sanctimonious pontification".
Clean yourself up and help your family.

[PapaBear765]

My grandfather and his sons (my uncles) were alcoholics.  An immediate family member has had her license suspended more than once for DUI.  All of us have 1st or 2nd hand experience with alcohol abuse.  So there's no need to state it.  We're all just as qualified as the other to speak our thoughts on the subject.

Alcoholism is like a crack addiction: everyone knows better, but some choose to head the warning while others don't.  I don't feel sorry for the ones who don't...including the ones in my family.

[fueldryer]

I think the lad's been given sufficient advice, and tough love, to navigate his way to success.  Now, if the discussion takes a turn towards some tangent, then let it be.  You moderators have a nasty problem of trying to fence in a discussion when it's obvious that more than a couple of people are interested in the tangent.

I have no sympathy for alcoholics.  For decades now society has been educated on the side affects of too much alcohol.  And people continue to ignore the warnings.  Therefore, it's not a disease (or any other cop out), it's a choice.  A choice to do what you're told is unwise.

No one needs to take it easy on this guy.  That might have been the problem with his life until now: no one telling him like it is.  No one telling him flat out he's in the wrong, that he's f.ing up his life.  Maybe all of us being so blunt about this issue will wake him up.  Just a thought.

Were your parents married?

[JustinHEMI05]

You moderators have a nasty problem of trying to fence in a discussion when it's obvious that more than a couple of people are interested in the tangent.

I am not a moderator.

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to opt out of the discussion because.... well because I like and respect too many people here to have this debate with them. I am afraid that it would end with "bad blood" and for me, the friendships I have made here are more important to me than allowing my strong feelings about this subject get out of control. I took a similar pacifist approach in the Navy, and it worked out. I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.

Have your discussion/debate, but I must bow out. Just don't let it get out of control.

Justin

[PapaBear765]

Were your parents married?

I'm neither a chief nor an officer, therefore my closet is empty of skeletons.

[fueldryer]

I am not a moderator.

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to opt out of the discussion because.... well because I like and respect too many people here to have this debate with them. I am afraid that it would end with "bad blood" and for me, the friendships I have made here are more important to me than allowing my strong feelings about this subject get out of control. I took a similar pacifist approach in the Navy, and it worked out. I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.

Have your discussion/debate, but I must bow out. Just don't let it get out of control.

Justin

So, you're saying that if someone drinks,weather socially or out of control drunk,then they/you cannot be friends?Bummer....

[JustinHEMI05]

So, you're saying that if someone drinks,weather socially or out of control drunk,then they/you cannot be friends?Bummer....

Don't start. I said exactly what I meant. I don't associate with drunk drivers. Period. No more, no less.

Justin

[fueldryer]

Don't start. I said exactly what I meant. I don't associate with drunk drivers. Period. No more, no less.

Justin

I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.   Your words, not mine...

[JustinHEMI05]

I never ever went out to the bars with Navy buds because I knew some of them were probably drinking and driving. And in my mind, if I had confirmation of the fact, that would negate the possibility of me being their friends and would require me to report them to the command. So, I just avoided the situation altogether. I have never seen the inside of a Saratoga bar.   Your words, not mine...

Yes and no where did I say I couldn't be friends with people that socially drink. I chose not to go out and get hammered every night. I didn't care if others did. But if they then drove, you bet I would have.

I am done with this. I am not going to be dragged into a fight about the evil that is drunk drivers.

Justin

[fueldryer]

would negate the possibility of me being their friends

[JustinHEMI05]

would negate the possibility of me being their friends

Way to take it out of context. You know damn well I am talking about drinking and driving. Read the whole thing.

Justin

[nuketarded]

I had an admin discharge ("hardship").  Owed 18k.  Paid it back. The bottom line is that it is not your money.  You were paid for something you didn't do.  You knew that when you signed the contract.  Work with DFAS, stretch it out to 6 years.  The rate they charge is really forgiving.  Put off buying a new car and pay off the debt.  You'll feel better.  If there weren't consequences to mistakes then they wouldn't be mistakes.  Getting 20k for not doing something is enabling irresponsibility. There are things you could have done with the money that would have insured you against this risk (partial investment, for instance).  You didn't ,and now you have to do some good old fashioned hard work. That's it.

[fueldryer]

Way to take it out of context. You know damn well I am talking about drinking and driving. Read the whole thing.

Justin

Something of which YOU never ever ever did in your entire life?

[fueldryer]

I had an admin discharge ("hardship").  Owed 18k.  Paid it back. The bottom line is that it is not your money.  You were paid for something you didn't do.  You knew that when you signed the contract.  Work with DFAS, stretch it out to 6 years.  The rate they charge is really forgiving.  Put off buying a new car and pay off the debt.  You'll feel better.  If there weren't consequences to mistakes then they wouldn't be mistakes.  Getting 20k for not doing something is enabling irresponsibility. There are things you could have done with the money that would have insured you against this risk (partial investment, for instance).  You didn't ,and now you have to do some good old fashioned hard work. That's it.

Well said!

[JustinHEMI05]

Something of which YOU never ever ever did in your entire life?

What drinking and driver? No I NEVER drank and drove in my entire life.

Justin

[rlbinc]

$500 a month is all you need.
My guess is - that if you deliver pizzas at night - after that water treatment job, you can make that.
For extra tips - use the words "Better than I deserve!" when some one asks how you are doing.
Ask Dave Ramsey.

[talitore]

You're right, I could deliver pies at night. All the while missing everything that is important.

[NJ]

O.K. You guys ENOUGH! 
Talitore, the Dave Ramsey way is a good mentor to have.  He tells it like it is but helps you get on. He has a radio program daily and a TV talk show. Go to his web page and check him out.  "Live today like nobody else so you can live like no one else later". Think of positive things you have going for you and
positiveness = positiveness.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ...you don't have a problem...

   ...you have a life...

   ...do what you've always done...

   ...adapt, improvise, overcome...

[Gamecock]

You're right, I could deliver pies at night. All the while missing everything that is important.

People are offering you ideas....you asked for 'em.

If you don't like the thought of working a second job......

You might consider lowering your standard of living....move into a smaller house/apartment that costs less.

If you drive vehicles that aren't paid off, consider selling them outright and getting a used car that you can pay cash for.

There are things that you can do to reduce your monthly expenditures...you might not want to do them, but there are options.

And, if your still drinking......you can probably pay your $500/month tab by getting sober.

[talitore]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

[nuketarded]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

It sounds like you already know what you're going to do.  You were looking for a way out rather than a way through.  So, on the path that you are about to go down, you should know that you cannot bankrupt debts owed the government (you can see who wrote the bk law).  They will come and get it one way or another, even if it takes 20 years, which it sounds like it may.  You will simply not receive a tax refund in the future and I believe there is the potential for wage garnishment.  Doesn't sound like you need a credit score anyway.  

[NukeLDO]

Justin--I admire your ability not to engage in controversy, and I agree with everything you've had to say here.
But, as I've been reading this thread, felt that I had to speak up.  Alcoholism and the problems it brings are near and dear for me personally.
The guy has problems.  Most alcoholics do.  Usually those problems are the same problems everyone else has...life stuff.  But alcohol gets in the way of dealing with them...and it snowballs, amplifiying the problems.
At some point, every alcoholic probably does have a choice (although some people believe they are born alcoholic due to genetics and just have to pick up that first drink to activate the disease).  But in the end, there is no choice.  They drink because they have to, just to feel "normal."  They can't quit, even though they know what it is doing to them.  I've heard more than one alcoholic state they always felt they were a 6 pack shy of normal.
Talitore--unless you get help with the drinking, you won't have any of that stuff you want to spend time with.  That's not a guess, its a certainty.  There is no problem in life that getting drunk will make better.  Step up, put down the bottle, and ask for help from people qualified to give you the help you need.  Once the addiction is broken, you'll have a choice again.  Lots of good advice here from folks who have dealt with the Navy and DFAS, use it.  But you have to deal with your problem before any of that other stuff can work out.  Sucks, but that's the truth.  It ain't easy, but it gets easier.  Good luck and I wish you and yours the best.

[PapaBear765]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

Sounds like he doesn't need to hear anything more from anyone.  He's got it figured out.

And I don't buy the "alcoholism is a disease...they drink because they have to..."  bravo sierra.  It's an addiction.  The solution is to stop doing that act.  Done.  Will it suck?  Yes.  Will it be difficult?  Yes.  Will it be worth it?  Yes.  It's just that simple.  Someone in this guy's shoes has a hard time ahead of them, but it's only up to him as to what he's going to do about it.  It's only his choices that are going to determine how he'll end up.  He can either continue drinking, not get another job (if needed), continue to live beyond his means, etc. or he can take the advice already given.  Either way, I'm tired of him combating everything he's told as though the advice is absurd and we're all insane.

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok I have read all the bantering back and forth on this a figure I will toss in my two cents.

First, yes the guy has a problem.  Is it one he could have avoided. yes.  Are there some circumstances that aggrivated the situation. Yes.  Life threw him a hard curve and he dealt with it in a manner which was probably not the best way. 

Tailor- I really hope that you got the help you need with your problem.  As far as the money thing goes, yes it really sucks but if the government said they were goign to give you bonus money for re-upping and you did and they fell through, you would want your two years back or the money.  You know have a choice of what to do, you can work towards correcting the problem using some of the advice given here or you can give up and hope that it will all go away(it won't, like someone said you won't see an income tax return or any other money from the government which may include GI bill money and other benefits).  Bottom line is yes you are goign to have to sacrifice some things in order to make this right, now it is up to you what that is, whether it be your family time or material possesions or lifestyle items.  I wish you well and hope that things do work out for you.  Just don't expect anyone to blow smoke up your keister and tell you everything you want to hear because it just won't happen.

Depending on who you talk to, yes Alcoholism is both a disease and a choice.  It is the only disease that people will get angry at you for having.  You don't yell or berate someone for having Tourettes.  Alcoholics are addicts, however constant drinking does affect the body's normal chemistry over time.  As was told to us during several DAPA training sessions, alcoholism is the only addiction/disease that CAN KILL you if you quit cold turkey after heavy abuse.  I am not saying we should all hold Tailor's hand and tell him things are going to be fine and he should have to worry about paying back the money or what he should have done instead of spending it. Clear, honest facts about his options would probably be better.  It is up to him to decide what he needs to do based on what he considers the best course of action. 

[rlbinc]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

I went through 50 years of life and 32 degrees to learn this...
Every solution to any man's problems involves work on himself. (Or building, as we call it.)
The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.
Without that ONE thing, you will remain poor (powerless), blind (foolish), and naked (disabled) - exactly as a newborn infant.
This building involves body (physical work), mind (making better choices in daily life), and spirit (visualizing the joy of the end result).
Mastering these - one becomes the creator of his own life. "As a man thinketh, so is he."

None of us can help you. You need to have this talk with the guy in the mirror.

Many of us have.

[PapaBear765]

The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.

N/A for some of us.

[Gamecock]

N/A for some of us.

It takes more faith to believe you came from some accident of nature then it does to believe in devine design.

[Camella Black]

I would like to educate a few of you on the truth of being an addicted to alcohol; not only do I hold a BA in Psychology and an AD in Human Services, I grew up the child of an alcoholic and I am the mother of a recovering addict.

No one chooses to be an alcoholic, while we may choose to take that first or second drink being addicted to alcohol or dependent on it is very different from having a big night out and over indulging.

I have read with dismay and disgust some of the responses on this thread. To say that I was ashamed of fellow members is putting it mildly. I have given much thought about what I should say and whether it would do any good.

While you don’t have to feel sorry for an alcoholic or addict you should at least understand their plight. There are numerous diseases that people have that affect the way their body processes substances. Diabetes, gout, Crohns disease, Cushing Disease and many others affect people when they consume food, certain foods or the make it impossible for them to process certain enzymes.

Then you have diseases/disorders that affect the way in which someone’s brain work; from AHAD to Autism, Depression, Anxiety Disorders, etc. People with this type of disease/disorder are affected by the way in which their brains process or produce chemicals or in the way in which they are “wired”.

The American Psychological Association says this about Alcoholic Use Disorders:

“Problem drinking has multiple causes, with genetic, physiological, psychological and social factors all playing a role. Not every individual is equally affected by each cause. For some alcohol abusers, psychological traits such as impulsiveness, low self-esteem, and a need for approval prompt inappropriate drinking. Some individuals drink to cope with or "medicate" emotional problems. Social and environmental factors such as peer pressure and the easy availability of alcohol can play key roles. Poverty and physical or sexual abuse increase the odds of developing alcohol dependence.

Genetic factors make some people especially vulnerable to alcohol dependence. Contrary to myth, being able to "hold your liquor" means you're probably more at risk--not less--for alcohol problems. Yet a family history of alcohol problems doesn't mean that the children of those with alcohol problems will automatically grow up to have the same problems--nor does the absence of family drinking problems necessarily protect children from developing these problems.

Once people begin drinking excessively, the problem can perpetuate itself. Heavy drinking can cause physiological changes that make more drinking the only way to avoid discomfort. Individuals with alcohol dependence may drink partly to reduce or avoid withdrawal symptoms.”

The gentleman that asked for help was getting his ducks in a row, manning up and taking responsibility for his actions by doing just that… inquiring where he needed to go for help in figuring out a problem in his life.

I commend him for that and hope that he continues to use our site as a source of information and for place to reach out to others.

Finally, I have always found that a true test of a person’s character is not how we treat our neighbor, but how we treat the bum on the street, the stray dog and yes the drunk on the corner…

[shovelheadred]

...with all of these suggestions, I haven't seen the answer to his alcohol problem...or anyone with an addiction problem, which is Prayer, God and Faith..I know this will be deleted because I mentioned God, because it has been done before, but I am not afraid to mention my savior, I stayed drunk for 25 years, and did some other non-mentionables also..it wasn't until I let go, and let God, that I got sober....Tomorrow, July4th, 2008 will be my 10th sober 4th of July, not by Bud's doing, because if it was left to me, I would celebrate, but with God in charge...I don't have a problem anymore,,,,,so if any of you read this before it get's deleted, that's my opinion on the alcohol, and where to get help for it..or where I get my help..... as for the money well I am like alot of you, you need to man up,,,I will pray for you and your wife's situation, and recovery. Red

[nuketarded]

Hello, I have a few questions.

At my two year point, I did what a lot of Navy Nukes do, I star re-enlisted. I got an SRB in the amount of ~$48k.
That's about 19k up front, after taxes. Shortly after, 6 months maybe, I was discharged, Honorably, do to an Alcohol treatment, failure.

As I'm sure you've guesses, I got a check in the mail, for about 28,000, owed to the DoD. I'm guessing my initial bonus was added in there.

I am 22, husband, and father of one. I did pick up a decent job working at the county water plant, making about $20/hr.

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

I have not searched these forums for an answer to my question, I apologize if it has been answered before. I really don't have the time to look. Wife and I are working off hours of each other to prevent a babysitter.

Thanks in advanced.

Ummm.  Not sure what I missed.  I recognize there was a lot of debate about it but, I don't think he was asking for help with alcoholism.

[NukeLDO]

Thanks for your post Camella.  You very eloquently addressed what had been bothering me about the replies to this post, which was the reason I posted in the first place.  You managed to say it alot better than I did though.

[thenukeman]

All this I need a hug, is crap.  People need to man up or Woman up and look in the Mirror and make a choice.  I asked my wife to marry me.  She knew I drank some.    She had Alcoholics in her life.  She told me she would marry me on one condition.  That was I was not to have a drop of Alcohol in our house.   I agreed.    I ask about 1 Magarita everytime I go to a mexican restaurant and she agreed and said she would drive.  We have been married over ten years and I have not had one drop of Alcohol in the House, My Whole family  benefits from it, My 2 kids, and My wife.     

I say if Talitore needs a Hug and bad advice Goto Oprah.  If you want the straight Poop come here.  Do not drink the Koolaid that all I need is a hug to feel good  about myself, Alcoholism is a disease etc.  It is a choice.   If people disagree to bad. I made the choice, Wife or Alcohol and Wife worked out for me..    Iguess Talitore can make a choice too.  A good life or I am a sorry Alcoholic and it is  a disease and I want to make as many people miserable as possible with my sorry self.  Do not blame me it is the disease.  Give me   a damn Break.

[Camella Black]

WARNING

Any further b.s. directed this guys way and we will begin to delete posts. Not only has the lead moderator, Nuclear Nascar attempted to difuse this bomb but I attempted to educate some of you guys in a nice way. I spoke to M.R. yesterday and he said to delete off topic remarks. I decided to go a little easy, but enough is enough.

No one is out for a pity party and he didn't ask for it. This is not only a nuke worker, but an ex-Navy Nuke who simply asked a question, he didn't ask to be drug through the mud.

I have a few horror stories of my own I could tell, but this is not the place or the time.

[thenukeman]

There are more than one way to help someone, I think mine is best. You think yours is the best. but if you must censor and only leave your beliefs in go ahead.  I think that is called Censorship as Fueldryer says.  I did not drag this guy through the mud but I believe gave him sound advice that has worked for me.   

[DDMurray]

Talitore,
    Good Luck with your situation(s).  One other thing to remember is when you do your taxes, your SSN will be flagged as owing a debt to the government.  Any tax refund you are due will go towards your debt until it is paid off.  I know this doesn't help, but I thought you should know this.

Derek Murray

[fueldryer]

There are more than one way to help someone, I think mine is best. You think yours is the best. but if you must censor and only leave your beliefs in go ahead.  I think that is called Censorship as Fueldryer says.  I did not drag this guy through the mud but I believe gave him sound advice that has worked for me.   

I think everyone's advice/comments were acceptable,even BZ's.I also think that if someone posts a question,take what you get or don't post.I don't think there was any "BS" involved here.People were/are just being honest.

[thenukeman]

Your right Fuel Dryer. Karma + If you ask for help you should expect to get diffrent opinions.  You can choose what you believe, I believe Talitore as I have said has at least tried to take care of his financial obligation. I hope  he takes care of the rest and has a good life.  Regardless if he takes Camellas advice or mine or something in between.  But to be moderator and take off choices you do not like is not right in my opinion.

[G-reg]

I think everyone's advice/comments were acceptable,even BZ's.I also think that if someone posts a question,take what you get or don't post.I don't think there was any "BS" involved here.People were/are just being honest.

Indeed.  There's the help you want, and then there's the help you need.

One still has to swallow the medicine, even if it is a bitter pill.

That being said, I think that everybody would be well served to re-read Forum Rule #4, especially since this thread is in the open (non-GM) forum.

If one is a Goldmember, can't one say what they want to?  After all don't you pay for the privileedge??

Only in the the Gold-Member-Only forums.  This particular thread is open to the general public.

[fueldryer]

all good stuff but he didn't ask for help with an alcohol problem, just the money,...

I think (and I maybe wrong) that maybe the alcohol might have played a big role in his problem? Maybe he was asking for help without really asking?

[fueldryer]

maybe, but I'm not a psychoanalyst, just a linear thinking nuke, RTQ, ATQ,...

Thank god for that, we already have one of those here.

[nuketarded]

maybe, but I'm not a psychoanalyst, just a linear thinking nuke, RTQ, ATQ,...

I'm there with you.  He didn't actually say that he was an alcoholic.  Just that he failed a program and was discharged.  My friend was put in a program because he was scheduled for a dive physical and had spent too much time drinking and not enough sleeping the night before.  Therefore deemed alcoholic.  He "failed" the program because of his attitude ( 18 and arrogant ).  IMO he has never met the definition of, nor displayed any of the real symptoms of an addict .  Makes $250k today at 32 after no treatment.  Not a sea story, he's my best friend.  Yes it's a singular example.  Yes I understand that we are all different (not carbon copies, get it).
 
This thread has (had) lots of posturing because a hot-button was pushed.

On the topic of repaying the debt.  you will notice that the bill is for the gross amount.  The good news is..... all that you repay is tax deductable for that year under miscellaneous deduction ("repayment of certain debts owed the government").  It actually provide a "return" for me.  i was in a significantly higher tax bracket when I paid it back than when I paid taxes on it.

[justatech]

Talitore,
You're not in the best situation, however it can get better. First, I applaud you and your wife for working opposite hours to mitigate the exorbitant cost of day care. I also applaud her for continuing to work as long as she can with chemo treatments - that can be extremely difficult.

I only have a few suggestions. Number one on my list, sit down with your wife and decide how you can stream line your expenses - I'm sure you have done this as far as "extras" are concerned; i.e. movies, dinners pack lunches instead - no frilly coffee drinks etc. Now look at where you are living, can you move into a less expensive place for a period of 2 - 3 years? Do you need two vehicles for work or can you work out a system with one car and sharing rides - which would cut back on car payments, gas and insurance.

The next suggestion - consult a financial attorney to approach the military with what you can pay back in a reasonable time period - go low on the initial proposal and try to meet somewhere in the middle. The bottom line is they want their money - screwing you over to the point you are without a home and means to a job will not help their cause. They may state they want 500 a month with 3 or 4 % interest - doesn't mean you can afford it. Talk this over with the attorney. Myself - I would pay what I can logically afford with the interest - even if it was less than what was demanded - however I would pay the same amount each month to establish that I am paying an exact amount that I can afford. Yes, they will take what ever tax refund amount you receive until the debt is paid but it wasn't "in your pocket" to where you had to write a check. One way around this is let your wife file separately and claim the child on her taxes - check that out with the attorney. They should only be requesting money from your income - it's your debt - not your wife's, so protect her some way, which would pay for some expenses you incur with your child.

Hope this helps.

[Roll Tide]

Talitore,

At the risk of getting this fire blazing up again, I have another suggestion. See your congressman. Tell him you situation. Get his staff to help fill out the forms for the Waiver of Indebtedness.

I give people the benefit of the doubt. I assume you intended to complete your enlistment, but issues outside your control have prevented it. You are more worthy of the waiver than a former CNO received (for overpayment in a DITY move of his yacht). My prayers are with your family.

[LDO4CNO]

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advanced.

I have seen a couple of references here to “Dave Ramsey”.  I want to give my DITTO’s to the same.  Dave gives simple, excellent advice on finances and debt.  His way of attacking the “Debt Snowballs” works in such a way to allow you to see progress and feel good about yourself.  This Holiday weekend he has all of his books on sale at $10 each.   Take a look at his “Total Money Makeover” at   http://www.daveramsey.com/shop/_10_Books_DVDs_CDs_C122.cfm?UserID=32407743&jsessionid=4230de2fd0fb70467d32   This will undoubtedly be the best $10 you can spend right now.   I wish you luck.
JB
Buy his book, listen to his radio/ tv show and get “Gazelle Intense”.

[Camella Black]

I should have made it clear that I spoke to Mike long before I ever made a post to this topic, and I spoke to Tom. In fact, some of us moderators often talk behind the scenes. I am quick to bounce my ideas and thoughts off of someone else.

I would like to remind everyone of two things: 1. This is NOT a goldmember area and 2. Off topic posts are deleted everday or at least they should be, this comes from the very top.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to share their story of how they dealt with an addiction, but to kick someone when they are down went a little far.

I don't support censorship and have been a victim of it as a news journalist/photographer. I would like say that I was asked to be a moderator and it was an honor. I quickly spoke up and joined the forces that are nukeworker.

Now you may not like my views, and you may not like my politics, but please judge me fairly and don't accuse me of being petty enough to delete something just because I don't agree with it... I find that offensive and to be honest, I'd much rather smite someone when I don't agree with them, it is so much more fun. 

[fueldryer]

I don't think anybody kicked anybody.If the original poster didn't want a variety of input,well then maybe he should not have posted...Period. And weather you believe it or not Camella,censorship is alive and thriving here. Period!


End of my rant on this thread, Period!