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Offline radiationman

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Plum Brook Per diem scam
« on: Jul 01, 2008, 07:45 »
How about the 4 Mota Employees being indicted by the federal Govt for per diem fraud? $364,000 in Diem.

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #1 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:25 »
How about a link supporting link prior to this topic being deleted?

Thanks in advance,
Tom
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Offline thenukeman

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #2 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:35 »
www.usdoj.gov/usao/ohn/news/7May2008.html
News
Release
For Release: May 7, 2008
U.S. Department of Justice
United States Attorney
Northern District of Ohio
William J. Edwards
Acting United States Attorney
Robert W. Kern
Assistant U.S. Attorney
(216) 622-3836
William J. Edwards, Acting United States Attorney for the Northern District of Ohio,
announced today that a federal grand jury in Cleveland, Ohio, returned an indictment
charging four individuals with fraudulently receiving per diem expenses of approximately
$347,664.93 under their employment contracts with MOTA Corporation, a prime contractor
of NASA in connection with the decommissioning of a nuclear reactor located at the NASA
Plum Brook Facility in Sandusky, Ohio.
Charged in the Indictment are Eric Johannsen and Eric Bertrand of Oak Harbor, Ohio,
Joseph Sorg of Sandusky, Ohio, and David Eckman, formerly of Oak Harbor, Ohio.
The indictment charges that Eric Johannsen (who was the Project Manager), along with
Joseph Sorg, Eric Bertrand and David Eckman each falsely listed permanent addresses more
than 50 miles from NASA Plum Brook in order to receive per diem payments of between
$65.00 and $75.00 per day, when, in fact, each defendant had established and maintained a
permanent residence less than 50 miles from the NASA Plum Brook Facility. As a result,
the Indictment charges that between May 2003 and April 2008, the defendants embezzled,
stole and purloined funds belonging to the United States, or any department of agency there
of, in the following respective amounts:
Eric Johannsen - $88,372.19
Joseph Sorg - $51,183.03
Eric Bertrand - $117,719.86
David Eckman - $90,389.85
If convicted, the defendants’ sentences will be determined by the Court after review of
factors unique to this case, including the defendants’ prior criminal record, if any, the
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/mcampbe1/Loca...0Internet%20Files/OLK258/MOTA%20Press%20Release.htm (1 of 2) [5/8/2008 3:48:06 PM]
News Release 7 May 2008
defendants’ roles in the offense, and the characteristics of the violation. In all cases the
sentences will not exceed the statutory maximum and, in most cases, it will be less than the
maximum.
This case is being prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert W. Kern of the Cleveland
U.S. Attorney’s Office, following an investigation by the NASA Office of Inspector
General located at the Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio.
An indictment is only a charge and is not evidence of guilt. A defendant is entitled to a fair
trial in which it will be the government's burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2008, 09:37 by thenukeman »

Offline thenukeman

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #3 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:39 »
Better make sure you live 50 miles away.  I would hate to pay that much Diem Back or go to Jail

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #4 on: Jul 01, 2008, 09:50 »
Karma nukeman.  Thanks for the info.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

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ISOCS

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #5 on: Jul 02, 2008, 06:50 »
WOW! Mr. Robert Kern is a real hotdog doing the IRS' job just to try and make a name for himself. Why can't he go after the real criminals?

Offline retired nuke

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #6 on: Jul 02, 2008, 07:15 »
WOW! Mr. Robert Kern is a real hotdog doing the IRS' job just to try and make a name for himself. Why can't he go after the real criminals?

Fraud of over $300k is pretty criminal.....
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illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #7 on: Jul 02, 2008, 07:30 »
This isn't just a question of not paying taxes. If as alleged, this money was a fraudulently claimed to MOTA, it was then passed on to NASA and paid for out of our taxes.
Consequently, if true, these people stole of a quarter of a million dollars in our tax money.
Again, these seem to be allegations and have not yet been proven.

Offline Smart People

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #8 on: Jul 02, 2008, 07:55 »
WOW! Mr. Robert Kern is a real hotdog doing the IRS' job just to try and make a name for himself. Why can't he go after the real criminals?
I doubt Mr. Kern woke up one day and said "I think I'll look at Per Diem at Plumbrook.". Its probably safe to assume there was information given to begin the investigation
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Offline Dave Warren

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #9 on: Jul 02, 2008, 08:20 »
I doubt Mr. Kern woke up one day and said "I think I'll look at Per Diem at Plumbrook.". Its probably safe to assume there was information given to begin the investigation

I am with you Smart People.
You have to wonder why 4 obscure people (no offense), in the middle of Northern Ohio, would be targeted for illegally obtaining per diem for 5 years.
I know Mr. Eckman and he is a pretty jovial fellow with most people.
This one kinda reeks of foul play.

illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #10 on: Jul 02, 2008, 08:34 »
I was just reading over some of the PB postings....seems there was a lot of H&D (hate and disontent) there so I'm guessing somebody dropped a dime....or in this case a quarter of a megabuck. It also looks like a lot of people were there over a year. Were they drawing PD? Was anyone entitled to PD? I bet there's going to be more names showing up in the news.

duke99301

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #11 on: Jul 02, 2008, 09:06 »
So Did someone drop a dimeon these guys?
I am glad I left before I was there a year

vikingfan

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #12 on: Jul 02, 2008, 09:29 »
im sure someone dropped a manhole cover to get this one going kind of reminds me of d.c cook ! as for the per diem anyone who worked there whether they were there for a year or more or just a few months had their diem taxed as incoe fro day 1 of employment. not sure how thisis handled in terms of the illusion that thy benefited from expense fraud though.

illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #13 on: Jul 02, 2008, 09:39 »
im sure someone dropped a manhole cover to get this one going kind of reminds me of d.c cook ! as for the per diem anyone who worked there whether they were there for a year or more or just a few months had their diem taxed as incoe fro day 1 of employment. not sure how thisis handled in terms of the illusion that thy benefited from expense fraud though.
I don't know how the P/D was billed by MOTA, since they were a sub contractor, but the common practice would be to pass it along dollar for dollar to the Prime Contractor who would then pass it along to NASA. If someone who was not entitled to P/D claimed it, and gave a false home-of-record to get it, they could be guilty of giving false testimony (the claim they had home-of-record >50 miles from the site) even though the P/D was taxed. It would be akin to timecard fraud. I bet Beer Court could 'splain it better.
I believe MOTA's contract at Plum Brook ended in April, so this could have come up during a close-out audit.

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #14 on: Jul 02, 2008, 09:41 »
How about a link supporting link prior to this topic being deleted?

Thanks in advance,
Tom
Wow!
Call Before You Dig!

vikingfan

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #15 on: Jul 02, 2008, 09:51 »
no matter what still have to have that viable residence >50 miles from work

duke99301

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #16 on: Jul 02, 2008, 10:34 »
I was over four hours away. I never been close to home.
so who is running the site now?
how about the guy who lives in his car how would that work?

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #17 on: Jul 03, 2008, 06:00 »
Does that make them Plum Crooks?    :-\

One should be prunish when making such decisions!   :-[

Sorry, couldn't help myself.................RG!








illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #18 on: Jul 03, 2008, 11:35 »
Does that make them Plum Crooks?    :-\

One should be prunish when making such decisions!   :-[

Sorry, couldn't help myself.................RG!

You should be 'pun'ished for being so punny

justatech

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #19 on: Jul 04, 2008, 03:21 »
What if the "per diem" was included in their checks and taxable but added as "wage increase?" Not a separate "per diem" check that we receive on the road and nontaxable................... .just a thought.

Offline retired nuke

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #20 on: Jul 04, 2008, 07:57 »
What if the "per diem" was included in their checks and taxable but added as "wage increase?" Not a separate "per diem" check that we receive on the road and nontaxable................... .just a thought.
Sounds like it's more about how it was billed to the Gov't - regardless of what taxes were paid.....
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illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #21 on: Jul 05, 2008, 07:44 »
What if the "per diem" was included in their checks and taxable but added as "wage increase?" Not a separate "per diem" check that we receive on the road and nontaxable................... .just a thought.

I'm guessing if a worker was given a 'wage increase' then the worker is fine and how it was billed to NASA is an issue for MOTA to deal with.

Offline snowman

Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #22 on: Jul 07, 2008, 10:41 »
I am with you Smart People.
You have to wonder why 4 obscure people (no offense), in the middle of Northern Ohio, would be targeted for illegally obtaining per diem for 5 years.
I know Mr. Eckman and he is a pretty jovial fellow with most people.
This one kinda reeks of foul play.
I'd be pretty jovial too if I'd been gettin' diem for five years on the same job. This ain't the '80's anymore.

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #23 on: Jul 07, 2008, 11:08 »
I smell a RATT!

Offline Dave Warren

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #24 on: Jul 07, 2008, 11:10 »
I'd be pretty jovial too if I'd been gettin' diem for five years on the same job. This ain't the '80's anymore.

Ya mean we aren't supposed to do that now?

Offline Smart People

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #25 on: Jul 07, 2008, 12:09 »
I think the key here is that they gave false addresses(allegedly).
« Last Edit: Jul 07, 2008, 12:11 by Smart People »
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illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #26 on: Jul 07, 2008, 12:49 »
I think the key here is that they gave false addresses(allegedly).
One of the alleged offenders was the Project Manager. That might have something to do with it.

illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #27 on: Jul 07, 2008, 12:56 »
I smell a RATT!
I wouldn't bet on that. Given the high profile nature of some of these people within the project.....Project Manager, Construction Supervisor, etc, if they were giving a false address while drawing P/D, and that hasn't been proven, only alleged....if they were doing that, it wouldn't be hard for an auditor to spot.
Anyway, I can't say I'd have a lot of sympathy for anyone who was stealing a quarter of a million of our tax dollars, nor would I be too hard on anyone who turned them in.
« Last Edit: Jul 07, 2008, 01:11 by illegalsmile »

Offline snowman

Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #28 on: Jul 08, 2008, 01:32 »
Ya mean we aren't supposed to do that now?
No, and the companies we work for now don't like people who surf the internet and post numerous messages on web site forums.

vikingfan

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #29 on: Jul 08, 2008, 01:42 »
No, and the companies we work for now don't like people who surf the internet and post numerous messages on web site forums.

good thing at this point in time i'm a former employee of theirs...time to go post away

hankrearden

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #30 on: Jul 08, 2008, 02:50 »
   wasnt the mota project supervisor at argonne national labs also arrested in 2000?

johnnyreb

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #31 on: Jul 09, 2008, 03:12 »
   I think they took some matal they wernt allowed to have.

vikingfan

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #32 on: Jul 09, 2008, 04:18 »
   I think they took some matal they wernt allowed to have.

huh ??? please clarify !!

illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #33 on: Jul 09, 2008, 04:20 »
huh ??? please clarify !!
and please provide sources and facts to support this.

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #34 on: Jul 10, 2008, 01:05 »
Sounds like the same situation that people are gambling on with unemployment.  Perhaps these people were innocently using the same "loop holes" with collecting Per Diem as most of "all of you" are using to collect unemployment!!??  For instance, if you live in South Carolina, and find a "loop hole " to claim off of Mass...  Just a thought, no matter what anyone says, it is breaking the law, and one day you will be caught.  Just a thought.

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #35 on: Jul 10, 2008, 04:38 »
azkidd,

WOW, what insight!  Until your posting, I'm sure many of us didn't realize the striking similarities between the Plum Brook situation and Interstate Unemployment Claims.  I, for one, yield to your wisdom and knowledge of applicable federal and state laws.  Far be it for us commoners to grasp the intellectual abstracts of such an iconic individual as youself.  How dare those Bastards from South Carolina cross the Mason-Dixon line for double the $$$.$$! 

Whooooaaaaa.................. ...Wait a minute....................I live in South Caroline!    :(

SC = $323.00/week, or Mass = $575.00+/week................................. :-\   

Quote
Just a thought.

NO, Seems more like a confirmation to me!

RG!   ;)
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2008, 04:39 by RAD-GHOST »

illegalsmile

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #36 on: Jul 10, 2008, 05:29 »
there is one minor difference between the two situations......
filing a 'Combined Wage Claim' where you 'use' the fact that you worked in more than one state to allow you to file in Mass is legal. Using a false address to obtain money the law says you're not entitled to is not. A small thing to some, apparently.
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2008, 07:28 by illegalsmile »

Offline Smart People

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #37 on: Jul 10, 2008, 06:00 »
Wow, let's see... i go to Boston, say "i want to open a combined wage claim" they say "where do you live? i say "North Carolina" they say "ok"
i open the claim, go home, venture on down to my local employment security commission office and say "i have a combined wage claim in Mass." they say "great! let us help you fill out the IB-1 form and send it to Mass so they will start ending you your checks".

somehow according to azkidd that is the same as telling my contract company that i'm generating dual living expenses and live more than 50 miles away when i only live three miles from the plant i'm working at.
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vikingfan

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #38 on: Jul 10, 2008, 07:46 »
karma to you wayne and also to smart people ! there is a vast difference between filing a combined wage claim which " legally you are entitled to " and to falsely claiming living expenses

Offline Smart People

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #39 on: Jul 10, 2008, 09:25 »
Azkidd, you should become a gold member so you can join the rest of us in the GM forum and give us a true understanding of your wisdom.
Blessed is the man who can laugh at himself--he will never cease to be amused
Think twice and say nothing..Chiun
I'm as big a fool as anyone..And bigger than most.. Odd Thomas

jowlman

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #40 on: Jul 10, 2008, 10:29 »
Let's cut AZ a little slack.Maybe he was talking about the people that check the little box on line from their home computers instead of making the trip to file like you're supposed to do. In that respect he is correct. Some people legally get per diem other do not, some people legally do a combined wage claim, others do not........Just my two cents.
Fred

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #41 on: Jul 10, 2008, 12:24 »
Sounds like the same situation that people are gambling on with unemployment.  Perhaps these people were innocently using the same "loop holes" with collecting Per Diem as most of "all of you" are using to collect unemployment!!??  For instance, if you live in South Carolina, and find a "loop hole " to claim off of Mass...  Just a thought, no matter what anyone says, it is breaking the law, and one day you will be caught.  Just a thought.


" Information about Extended Unemployment Insurance Benefits

   Secretary of Labor and Workforce Development Suzanne M. Bump has announced that unemployed job seekers in Massachusetts will be able to receive up to 13 weeks of additional unemployment insurance benefits under a new federally-funded "Extended Benefits" program which became effective the week of July 6, 2008.

"While our state is fortunate that the unemployment rate in Massachusetts continues to be lower than the national rate and we have continued to add jobs this year, these extended benefits are critically important to those families who have been struggling to find work for so long in this economy," said Secretary Bump.

Potentially eligible claimants will be notified by the state Division of Unemployment Assistance on how and when to file for benefits. It is expected that more than 95 percent of those receiving unemployment benefits will be eligible for Extended Benefits should they be unable to find a job after 26 weeks.

To find out more about eligiblity rules and how to appy for these extended benefits, visit the Division of Unemployment Assistance website, www.mass.gov/dua or read the press release.

Patrick Administration Announces New Hotline, Website for Public to Report Workplace Fraud Activity

Secretary of Labor and Workforce Development Suzanne M. Bump has announced a new toll-free hotline, 1-877-96-LABOR and website, www.mass.gov/dol/labortaskforce, for the public to anonymously report suspected cases of workplace fraud in the Bay State."

  Mass.gov, July 10, 2008




Offline snowman

Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #42 on: Jul 10, 2008, 02:54 »
   I think they took some matal they wernt allowed to have.
I thought only meth heads did that. This story just gets better and better...

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #43 on: Jul 10, 2008, 03:12 »

 these extended benefits are critically important to those families who have been struggling to find work for so long in this economy,"



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radnuke61

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #44 on: Aug 20, 2008, 01:45 »
If the facts are true, they got what they deserved.  Those are tax dollars coming out of all our pockets.  Everyone is struggling in today's economy and it's deplorable that these people were making a buck off of those of us trying to make ends meet.  They should be made to pay back every dime, plus interest.

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #45 on: Aug 21, 2008, 10:24 »
Although I am not familiar with the whole "per diem" concept as far as contractors go and all that, there are some questions that may shed some light on the subject a bit better.

How close were they to the 50 mile limit.  If they were 20 miles, sure no brainer.  But if they were 47 miles, it could be a little more hazy.  Direct line distance might be 47 miles but driving distance could be 51 miles. 

What were they using to measure the distance?  Was it driving distance, staight line distance, Mapquest Distance, Road signs, etc?

While I agree that it they were truly and knowingly defrauding the Government then they should be punished appropriately.  However without having all the facts, I feel we should refrain from judging them horrible people. 
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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #46 on: Aug 21, 2008, 06:38 »
Although I am not familiar with the whole "per diem" concept as far as contractors go and all that, there are some questions that may shed some light on the subject a bit better.

How close were they to the 50 mile limit.  If they were 20 miles, sure no brainer.  But if they were 47 miles, it could be a little more hazy.  Direct line distance might be 47 miles but driving distance could be 51 miles. 

What were they using to measure the distance?  Was it driving distance, staight line distance, Mapquest Distance, Road signs, etc?

While I agree that it they were truly and knowingly defrauding the Government then they should be punished appropriately.  However without having all the facts, I feel we should refrain from judging them horrible people. 

Per diem is a reimbursement for living expenses while working (and living) away from home. It is tax deductable for companies. It is income for employees that recieve it and do not maintain a residence away from home while working > 50 miles away. Many road techs claim the perdiem, and write off expenses while on the road - many just pretend the perdiem and the expenses don't exist - call it a wash.
For employees that are living in their normal residence, and collecting perdiem, that money is taxed as income. To recieve perdiem while a government contractor, and live in their normal residence the perdiem is fraud, as the government has additional rules regarding the payment of perdiem.
Making a deal with your site supervisor to collect perdiem when not eligible, lays the company open to fraud, loss of contract and ineligibility to bid on future contracts, as company management (the supervisor) was part of the fraud. This affects other employees of that company, as they, being employees of a no-longer-eligible bidder, may find themselves unemployed. And a replacement contractor may be reluctant to hire former employees of a company under fraud investigation until the investigation is complete, to prevent said investigation following said former employees to thier company.
So, it's not just a matter of a mile or two either way. And it may affect more than the people currently being investigated.

They are innocent until proven guilty. But if they are found guilty, I hope that a suitable and compensatory (repayment) punishment is administered.
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justatech

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Re: Plum Brook Per diem scam
« Reply #47 on: Aug 22, 2008, 05:04 »
How close were they to the 50 mile limit.  If they were 20 miles, sure no brainer.  But if they were 47 miles, it could be a little more hazy.  Direct line distance might be 47 miles but driving distance could be 51 miles.  What were they using to measure the distance?  Was it driving distance, straight line distance, Mapquest Distance, Road signs, etc?

One guy lives in Sandusky  so it's <10 miles to site -
The others live in Oak Harbor, Ohio per the newspaper to the site in Sandusky, Ohio  Estimated Time: 37 minutes Estimated Distance: 28.65 miles (per Map Quest)

 


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