On probation for forced sexual assult, a felony

[bheinz]

Ok all, heres a question that I can't seem to find an answer to on here that I'm satisfied with, so I'm going to post to ask. I spoke to a friend a few days ago that I was in the Navy with and I found out that he was interested in working at a civilian power plant. Which is great because I really liked this guy,(as in work ethic and personality) and I wouldn't mind working with him again since my plant is hiring now. But I found out some bad news. He is currently on probation right now, and he doesn't get off for another 5 weeks. He has a felony from the Gran Ole Nav for forced sexual assult. Pretty much he was a staff instructor, she was a student, once it got out that they had sex, she claimed rape. So long story short, they couldn't prove the rape when it went o trial but he was told to just plee because either way the Navy was going to have their way with him. I would love to forward his resume to my chain, but I'm not sure if this would prevent him from being eligible to get a clearance that he will need. I read all the other post in here about clearances and I know people are recommending having him talk to a legal expert, but does anyone have any personal experience?

[LDO4CNO]

Pretty much he was a staff instructor, she was a student, once it got out that they had sex, she claimed rape.....  he was told to just plee because either way the Navy was going to have their way with him.

This story sounds a little one sided.  The military is not in the business of trumping up charges.   Even if his perspective of the event is the absolute unembellished truth I would not want him on my staff.

Regardless of how well you know the man understand his recollection of the series of events could possibly be different from hers.  The truth may fall in the middle.

[Fermi2]

A felony disqualifies one from getting a commercial security clearance. They should have put that animal away for life.

Mike

[kp88]

There generally aren't that many people around at 02:00 on Christmas Day to operate the plant.  You certainly don't want want one of them to be a convicted rapist.

[Already Gone]

Not every felony results in instant DQ.
There are two sides to every story.  Probation for a sexual assault would indicate that it was a lesser offense than rape.  However, he will still have to register as a sex offender in most states, and it is considered a violent crime.
My concern would be that if the story is exactly as you present it, he misused his authority to some degree.  It is a pretty clear line that can't be crossed inside the Navy or outside.  Intimate relations with a subordinate are strictly out of bounds.  At the very least, it calls his judgement into question.
My guess is that the best way to get his career back on track would be the following:
1. finish the probation and get a favorable report from the Probation Officer.
2. Voluntarily enter a counselling/rehabilitation program and get favorable reports from the counsellors
3. Apply for employment, interview, and get an offer
4. Tell the truth, and leave out nothing
5. Pray - this is no joke.  It is my personal belief, which you are free to share or disregard, that introspective thought with consciousness of a Higher Power is invaluable to overcoming the adversity that he will face for a long time to come. 

There is still the large probability that a clearance will be either denied or conditioned on a lot of extra expensive participation on his part.  But, he won't really know until he tries.  Don't let your friend give up hope.  If he's really a good guy who just made a huge mistake, he deserves to have hope.  He did something that will make his life a lot more difficult.  He's going to need a friend or two to help him cope with that.

Good luck to you both.

[kp88]

Pray all you want.  No convicted sex offender should be allowed unescorted access to a nuclear power plant.

[fueldryer]

Pray all you want.  No convicted sex offender should be allowed unescorted access to a nuclear power plant.

Is there some particular reason why ?

[Already Gone]

Because the place is already full of people who cheat on their spouses, cheat on their taxes, steal from the coffee fund, take tools home in their lunchboxes, drink and drive...

Besides, think of all the little children in danger from this animal every time they come to work at the nuclear plant.

It would be different if there were some way to keep him in line - like cameras, armed guards, barbed wire, fitness for duty programs ... etc.  But since a nuke is such an unregulated environment, there's no telling what could happen.

Geez!  The poor guy got the hots for a female sailor.  It was against the rules.  He got in trouble for it.  He may or may not ever get access to a nuclear plant.  But every single person, at sometime in their lives, does at least one thing that probably ought to put them in jail or lose them their clearance.  Don't try to tell me that you never drove with too many beers in your gut.  Doing that twice is a felony where I live.  Of course, you have to get caught both times for that to happen.  Who here is going to argue that the moral equivalent to a felony (dwi two times) is different from an integrity stand point from the actual felony of being caught doing it twice.

If it is a legal issue, let the law decide if he gets clearance or not.  If it is a moral issue, place the reactor in a safe condition on your way out.


If you can't show me the nail holes in your hands and feet right now, shut up.

[kp88]

Is there some particular reason why ?

I am typically against assault and sexual abuse.  Why do you ask?

[bheinz]

Not every felony results in instant DQ.
There are two sides to every story.  Probation for a sexual assault would indicate that it was a lesser offense than rape.  However, he will still have to register as a sex offender in most states, and it is considered a violent crime.
My concern would be that if the story is exactly as you present it, he misused his authority to some degree.  It is a pretty clear line that can't be crossed inside the Navy or outside.  Intimate relations with a subordinate are strictly out of bounds.  At the very least, it calls his judgement into question.
My guess is that the best way to get his career back on track would be the following:
1. finish the probation and get a favorable report from the Probation Officer.
2. Voluntarily enter a counselling/rehabilitation program and get favorable reports from the counsellors
3. Apply for employment, interview, and get an offer
4. Tell the truth, and leave out nothing
5. Pray - this is no joke.  It is my personal belief, which you are free to share or disregard, that introspective thought with consciousness of a Higher Power is invaluable to overcoming the adversity that he will face for a long time to come. 

There is still the large probability that a clearance will be either denied or conditioned on a lot of extra expensive participation on his part.  But, he won't really know until he tries.  Don't let your friend give up hope.  If he's really a good guy who just made a huge mistake, he deserves to have hope.  He did something that will make his life a lot more difficult.  He's going to need a friend or two to help him cope with that.

Good luck to you both.

thanks a lot, this is what i was asking for, not everyones opinion on him being a rapist, if I'm a female, and i feel comfortable around him, then I guess that has something to say about him, and BZ, you are way off here, just letting you know

[fueldryer]

Because the place is already full of people who cheat on their spouses, cheat on their taxes, steal from the coffee fund, take tools home in their lunchboxes, drink and drive...

Besides, think of all the little children in danger from this animal every time they come to work at the nuclear plant.

It would be different if there were some way to keep him in line - like cameras, armed guards, barbed wire, fitness for duty programs ... etc.  But since a nuke is such an unregulated environment, there's no telling what could happen.

Geez!  The poor guy got the hots for a female sailor.  It was against the rules.  He got in trouble for it.  He may or may not ever get access to a nuclear plant.  But every single person, at sometime in their lives, does at least one thing that probably ought to put them in jail or lose them their clearance.  Don't try to tell me that you never drove with too many beers in your gut.  Doing that twice is a felony where I live.  Of course, you have to get caught both times for that to happen.  Who here is going to argue that the moral equivalent to a felony (dwi two times) is different from an integrity stand point from the actual felony of being caught doing it twice.

If it is a legal issue, let the law decide if he gets clearance or not.  If it is a moral issue, place the reactor in a safe condition on your way out.


If you can't show me the nail holes in your hands and feet right now, shut up.

That was very well put,that was the reason I asked what I asked.Thanks BC,karma to ya!

[fueldryer]

I am typically against assault and sexual abuse.  Why do you ask?

BC answered for/before me.I think what he said is very true.

[thenukeman]

I can see that having sex with a student that you have power over is wrong.  I can see the navy having their way with him.  That makes him a predator and  even though he may have changed his ways, I doubt the utilities or DOE would give him a chance.

I  as an Executive officer of a Training company almost made a mistake.  A female trainee said she was having problems and wanted to talk to me.  Being a naive  LT I brought her in my office and closed the door.  She started to cry and said how everyone was mean, and other junk, well then she got to that I was the nicest person to her. I was the  best guy in the unit and all the other females said so too. Well I knew then I was in some trouble, my only objective then was to get her out of my office as soon as possible, I got her out and from then on my unwritten rule was not to ever have a female in my office by herself without another person in her chain of command.  I can see a person getting in trouble but he should as her instructor told her to leave. He should  have also had another person in her chain of command meet with him at all times.  I also try to do this in my civilian job too.  Just in case.

[HydroDave63]

Not every felony results in instant DQ.
There are two sides to every story.  Probation for a sexual assault would indicate that it was a lesser offense than rape.  However, he will still have to register as a sex offender in most states, and it is considered a violent crime.
My concern would be that if the story is exactly as you present it, he misused his authority to some degree.  It is a pretty clear line that can't be crossed inside the Navy or outside.  Intimate relations with a subordinate are strictly out of bounds.  At the very least, it calls his judgement into question.
My guess is that the best way to get his career back on track would be the following:
1. finish the probation and get a favorable report from the Probation Officer.
2. Voluntarily enter a counselling/rehabilitation program and get favorable reports from the counsellors
3. Apply for employment, interview, and get an offer
4. Tell the truth, and leave out nothing
5. Pray - this is no joke.  It is my personal belief, which you are free to share or disregard, that introspective thought with consciousness of a Higher Power is invaluable to overcoming the adversity that he will face for a long time to come. 

There is still the large probability that a clearance will be either denied or conditioned on a lot of extra expensive participation on his part.  But, he won't really know until he tries.  Don't let your friend give up hope.  If he's really a good guy who just made a huge mistake, he deserves to have hope.  He did something that will make his life a lot more difficult.  He's going to need a friend or two to help him cope with that.

Good luck to you both.

for a week !

I'd offer an item 2.5 Once the probation/rehab is done, he can petition the state governor for partial clemency. True story: in a small sleepy town in the corn desert, the town's entire police force was caught up in a DEA sting. Some were convicted. One of those convicted petitioned for partial clemency. He'll never own a gun or carry a badge or get bonded as a bank teller...but he does work in the healthcare industry.

Point being, there is the possibility of partial redemption. However, most utilities would not hire, and would even remove after hire for "morals" charges. In the post HSPD-12 world, he most likely will NOT get access to any critical infrastructure facility, so that rules out substations, dispatch centers, large generation stations, especially nuclear. I'd think his best bet, if a partial clemency did not happen for your friend, would be to try to hire on at one of the numerous independent power producers all over the nation (usually the gas turbine world).

Hope this helps!

[zammis]

Hhmm.... let's see

      Fingering coins from coffee fund  ( shame on you )
      Cheating on taxes  ( bravo ! )
      Taking tools home ( just plain stupid )
      Cheating on spouse ( it happens )

      GUILTY of a FELONY for FORCED SEXUAL ASSULT ? Wow....

                                        Enough said
       

[Already Gone]

No, not enough said.  Say what you mean and spare me the cute little Visa Card Commercial routine.  Real life is more complex than that.

A lack of integrity manifests itself in ways that might not seem like a big deal, but there are people working in nuclear power who took a lot more than a few coins from the coffee fund (thousands of dollars in some cases).  If your wife can't trust you, why should the NRC?  If you'd falsify one legal document, you'd falsify any legal document.  Taxes, QC hold points, there's no difference from an integrity standpoint.

What's so "stupid" about filching a few tools?  Perhaps the possibility of getting caught?  Does getting caught make a difference?  How about instead of stupid, it is just plain wrong?

Hypocrites always fall in shame.  When it is your turn, do you want to be judged as you are, or merely compared to the guy who only stole a wrench?  Don't think your turn is coming?  Hahahahahahahahahahahaha  You fool, you.  It is ALWAYS the guy  who thinks it will never happen to him.  And who will listen to your side when you are protesting that it was all a big mistake?

How do I know they'll come for you?  Because you are using moral relativism.  To you, there are some offenses that are unforgivable, and some that aren't.  The problem is that the line between the two is one that you draw for yourself but you are always on the "right" side of it - not because you do right all the time, but because you get to decide where the line is.  But, I already know that you are willing to disregard some crimes as trivial.  That means that you will probably do one or more of them in your life - and that will be your downfall.  Because there will be someone like you who decided differently where the line should be, and he'll judge you the way you are judging right now.

Of course, you - like most of us - probably won't get caught.  Probably, but not certainly.  So, I ask the question again: does getting caught make a difference?  Maybe to you.  Maybe that is why you will be very careful to never get caught doing wrong.  But will that give you a right to the moral superiority that you claim?

You can think you are clever all day long, but you are judging someone you do not even know and acting like you have the right to do it.  I'll take the "rapist" over a judgmental, self-righteous, hypocrite any day.  At least he knows that he was wrong.  When they come for you, you are going to act like it is all a big shock and surprise to you.

Never having to eat your own words.....priceless.

[RAD-GHOST]

Look at it from a businesses perspective, especially a utility!  Public relations play’s a major role in the operations of any facility.  Public relations is based on, (hate to say it), Fact and Fiction!  I don't know of any utility/business that would want to be acknowledged for facilitating the relocation of a convicted sex offender, even if they had a Presidential Pardon.  The guy may very well have accepted a plea as a matter of convenience, but the record solely reflects a conviction, not the circumstances....PERIOD!

The subject seems like a No-Brainer, until you add Politics and Religion to the Equation!   

RG!

[HydroDave63]

. So long story short, they couldn't prove the rape when it went o trial but he was told to just plee because either way the Navy was going to have their way with him.

So we have a weak case ( lack of evidence of the "forced" part,perhaps? ) to begin with ( if it was a strong credible felony case, the civilian DA with jurisdiction would have prosecuted ) , or the Navy will bring in NCIS, Mark Harmon and all, with a long list of charges knowing that the Court Martial board will always get ya for Art. 134 and 92 guaranteed for starters.

That's the same NCIS that tried to blame the dead guy in the turret for the explosion in #2 turret of USS Iowa  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion and had a problem catching spies until the horse was already out of the barn http://all.net/books/iw/www.dss.mil/www.dss.mil/training/espionage/Navy2.htm

Does this exhonerate the instructor? No. All I'm saying is that we don't know all the facts, the process MAY have been flawed. Regardless, the guy plead to a felony, which brings us right back to the original point of the thread...can someone with a felony conviction get on at a power plant.

DWIs get waivered onto nuclear sites, yet nationwide there are roughly a million DWI convictions and 20,000 deaths from drunk drivers ( numbers from http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/pub/Alcohol-ImpairedDriving.html ) . Where is the comparable outrage? Or is our community softer on DWI because some people hating on this guy drink and drive, or have friends that do? It gets back to that moral relativism argument.

In summary, I would also deny access.

Just curious though...how many posters here have served on jury duty? Voted to convict? Ever had to make that "shadow of a doubt" call with someone looking at hard time? Been a jury foreman?

[bheinz]

Hhmm.... let's see

      Fingering coins from coffee fund  ( shame on you )
      Cheating on taxes  ( bravo ! )
      Taking tools home ( just plain stupid )
      Cheating on spouse ( it happens )

      GUILTY of a FELONY for FORCED SEXUAL ASSULT ? Wow....

                                        Enough said
       

I'm pretty sure you got an earfull from BC, but I had to respond. I stated that the girl didn't report rape until it got out that they had sex. I'm sure that if it was a true rape then she would have reported it shortly after, not a week or two later once word got out. The Navy had no proof of rape before, during, or after the trial. But the CO wanted to make sure that a lesson was taught and learned, at this one person's expense. A guy and girl, BOTH over 21, BOTH agree to have sex. Two weeks later she claims rape when she knows she is going to go to Captain's Mass. The the best way to protect her own butt? Claim rape. Nothing was done to her to discipline her for her actions. But now, for life, he is going to be labeled a sexual predator. That's something that he has to report in every state and every job application. And in some states this MONSTER can't even live with his two boys that he was awarded custody of. So no, I don't believe enough was said.

[illegalsmile]

Without any opinion regarding your friend's guilt or the moral implications thereof....
a guilty plea is the same as a conviction from an FFD perspective. What he pled guilty to is a felony. I'd really be surprised if he could get unescorted access with that on his record, right, wrong or indifferent, that's the way it is.
The above is my opinion and only my opinion. I could be wrong. I am not a lawyer, legal aid or legal secretary; nor am I an all-knowing member any legislative committee and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[Already Gone]

Yes, an objective analysis of the situation would indicate that it is going to be difficult, if not impossible, for your friend to get in.  However, NOBODY who has posted here has access to the mind of the persons who will ultimately decide on granting or denying a clearance at their respective NPP's.  The only way to know for sure is to go through the process and get an answer.

Yes, I deleted NJ's reply.  Her post violated several forum rules.  Keep the personal information out of your posts, or they will evaporate.