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ramdog_1

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why do the call a sub a boat?
« on: Aug 14, 2008, 07:36 »
 why do the call a sub a boat?
this guy I was working with was calling one ship a gator frieghter what is the meaning of that is that some sort of slang?
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008, 06:16 by Rennhack »

ramdog_1

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I give
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15, 2008, 01:05 »
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rlbinc

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Re: what is the diff?
« Reply #2 on: Aug 15, 2008, 05:06 »
gator freighter what is the meaning of that?

Amphibious landing ships. LSTs, Landing Ship Tanks are typically a shallow draft ship with a Tail Gate opening up to form a ramp for vehicle and troop deployment. The Tail Gate became Gator and the exiting vehicles made it a Freighter. So that's a Gator Freighter.

Yes - its slang. And 85 year old WW2 vets know exactly what your talking about when you use the term. When this usage has enough tradition behind it, they'll put it in the Bluejacket Manual and it will eventually become a definitive term.


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Re: what is the diff?
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15, 2008, 05:44 »
why do the call a sub a boat?


Ship refers to a vessel that can curise in open ocean "blue water" a boat typicaly is restricted to shore river and lake operation "brown water"

This is a guess but the early submarines could not navigate blue water so they where probably called boats and the name just stuck.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: what is the diff?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 15, 2008, 07:15 »
Amphibious landing ships. LSTs, Landing Ship Tanks are typically a shallow draft ship with a Tail Gate opening up to form a ramp for vehicle and troop deployment. The Tail Gate became Gator and the exiting vehicles made it a Freighter. So that's a Gator Freighter.

Yes - its slang. And 85 year old WW2 vets know exactly what your talking about when you use the term. When this usage has enough tradition behind it, they'll put it in the Bluejacket Manual and it will eventually become a definitive term.



You are close.  Gator refers to the amphibious tanks themselves.  Thus a ship which carries "gators" is a gator freighter.
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: what is the diff?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 15, 2008, 07:22 »
Ship refers to a vessel that can curise in open ocean "blue water" a boat typicaly is restricted to shore river and lake operation "brown water"

This is a guess but the early submarines could not navigate blue water so they where probably called boats and the name just stuck.

You are not close.  A ship and a boat are both propelled watercraft as opposed to a barge, which must be towed.  The difference is that ship is 300 feet or longer at the waterline.

Modern submarines are long enough to be ships, but tradition trumps everything and they are still called boats.  Except for the very earliest subs, which were designed to attack anchored ships in a harbor, the submarine has always been an open-ocean craft.  WWII was of course the heyday of the submarine where most of the traditions were formed.  The boats of that era were essentially submersible versions of the Patrol Torpedo (PT) boats, which were also blue-water craft.

Of course, subs are really called boats because that is what submariners call them - and submariners do things our own way.  For example, the word "submariner" itself is pronounced just like submarine with an r at the end - not sub-mariner.  A sub-mariner is some kind of sandwich that you get at a baseball game in Seattle.  A man who braves the deep is a submariner - and we damned well call the boat a boat if we want to.
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008, 07:26 by BeerCourt »
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PapaBear765

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Re: what is the diff?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 31, 2008, 06:33 »
You are not close.  A ship and a boat are both propelled watercraft as opposed to a barge, which must be towed.  The difference is that ship is 300 feet or longer at the waterline.

Modern submarines are long enough to be ships, but tradition trumps everything and they are still called boats.  Except for the very earliest subs, which were designed to attack anchored ships in a harbor, the submarine has always been an open-ocean craft.  WWII was of course the heyday of the submarine where most of the traditions were formed.  The boats of that era were essentially submersible versions of the Patrol Torpedo (PT) boats, which were also blue-water craft.

Of course, subs are really called boats because that is what submariners call them - and submariners do things our own way.  For example, the word "submariner" itself is pronounced just like submarine with an r at the end - not sub-mariner.  A sub-mariner is some kind of sandwich that you get at a baseball game in Seattle.  A man who braves the deep is a submariner - and we damned well call the boat a boat if we want to.

In boot camp they told us that a vessel greater than length X was a ship and less than X was a boat.  A submarine being greater than should be called a ship, but (I figured over the years) submariners call 'em boats because they don't follow convention.  Like referring to spaces as TGLO Bay rather than something like compartment 2-24-134.  Also, not following convention since (I've heard) sub officers back in the beginning were looked down upon by other officers because on a sub they would invariably get dirty, thereby making them less officer like.  Since sub enlisted and officers were black sheep, they all just do their own thing and are a closer crew because of it.
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2008, 06:34 by PapaBear765 »

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 01, 2008, 08:03 »
   The term "Boat" for a submarine is a traditional affectionate term used by submariners, first used when subs were much smaller than they are today. Simply put a vessel small enough to be carried by a ship was called a boat and many ships small enough to be carried by a ship such as the PT boats also came by this moniker due to thier small size.
« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2008, 08:35 by Marlin »

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 02, 2008, 08:01 »
Thought I'd add some history to the lesson...

Winston Churchill: "Enemy submarines are to be called U-boats. The term 'submarine' is to be reserved for Allied underwater vessels. U-boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs."


The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 02, 2008, 11:59 »
I thought that subs were boats and everything else was a target?
Keep honking.  I'm reloading.

kp88

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 02, 2008, 11:10 »
that would be correct,....

karma for stating the overlooked obvious,.... :)

Normal people, being more attuned to their surroundings, tend to get off of their boat/ship when it is going underwater.

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 04, 2008, 10:47 »
Intelligent people don't ever get on a ship that can't come back up after it submerges.
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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #12 on: Nov 05, 2008, 03:40 »
Yet more proof that Nukes are not normal but highly intelligent.  Well at least most of us!

I choose intelligence over normal anyway.

Intelligence is not normal... we were treated to ample evidence of that last night.  :(
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Valkrider

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #13 on: Nov 07, 2008, 06:33 »
They're called boats so Marines don't confuse them with sub sandwiches.

kp88

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #14 on: Nov 08, 2008, 08:27 »
Intelligent people don't ever get on a ship that can't come back up after it submerges.
Then, by your definition, submarines are ships?  (Boats submerge, ships do not.)  Personally, as long as the surface/dive ratio is one or greater, I don't care.  (The needs/quirks of the Navy clause sent me to a surface ship.)   :)

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #15 on: Nov 08, 2008, 09:18 »
All ships are capable of submerging.

Subs are capable of coming back up.

We call 'em "boats" because that's what we call them.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #16 on: Nov 10, 2008, 09:45 »
They're called boats so Marines don't confuse them with sub sandwiches.
Actually, a sub to us is a Marine Reservist.
We commonly call them Sub-Marines.

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Re: why do the call a sub a boat?
« Reply #17 on: Nov 12, 2008, 06:45 »
The best Marine is a SUBMARINE!!!

 


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