Bartlett Techs @ Oyster Creek

[Melrose]

Had to come and make this post, probably should wait til I've cooled off a bit.  Here goes anyway.

Just left access, the MAC, tried helping a tech there, I didn't know him, he didn't know me.  He obviously was struggling with the release of a contaminated shoe, using the tape, the pancake probe, the whole bit.  He just wasn't cognizant enough to realize the pancake doesn't fit into the tread of the shoe.  I won't go into too much detail... save getting spun up all over again.
I really musta touched a nerve, cuz I got the whole laid back, cynical, fuqd up attitude that most of the "RPTs" (non-commercial nuke types) heroes have here at Oyster.  Rather than a simple thanks, and just go about doing what he thought was right and THE ONLY way to do it, I get the whole story about, "yeah I been dun doin' dis 'bout 23 year now, I guess I got a vague idee 'bout what I'm doin", ..... what a d%$head,
I asked him why he hadn't learned anything in 23 years, or if after 23 years he hadn't realized that he hadn't learned anything, that's why he's still stuck being a friskall cop.  (Did I mention... the shoe is still in the RCA?)

People like him and others here..... they're exactly why there are times that I don't miss the job.

Haven't missed an OCC meeting yet, to this date there hasn't been a day pass that a complaint hasnt' arose about the B staff.  Really hate hearing it, but truth be told, the ball has been dropped.  Slow movers, bad attitudes, and techs that lack experience ('experience', not 'time') make for a nasty black eye on the blue machine.

[roadhp]

Haven't missed an OCC meeting yet, to this date there hasn't been a day pass that a complaint hasnt' arose about the B staff.  Really hate hearing it, but truth be told, the ball has been dropped.  Slow movers, bad attitudes, and techs that lack experience ('experience', not 'time') make for a nasty black eye on the blue machine.

Note the OCC in this quote.  Obviously this is a tie that doesn't know what is going on here.  The techs are having to spend 10 to 12 hours in the RCA covering his work that he can't schedule right because otherwise there would be enough techs in the plant to at least get the Federally mandated amount of breaks, but have to spend most of that break travelling to a break trailer that is at the extreme end of the plant just to have a supervisor tell them that they are needed in the plant and their break or lunch will have to wait, and then have supervisors (one in particular) try to switch around techs without consulting the lead techs about what work is going on, but yelling at them for having techs standing around IN THEIR WORK AREA waiting on jobs that have been scheduled, briefed, and are just waiting for the craft to come back from their union mandated break, but can't go on break themselves because there are a dozen or more work groups that might need help in that space of time.
It is also obvious that this person has never been a tech covering real work, because he would have a little more understanding about what a tech with tape and a frisker can do to get a shoe out, and that the tech is taking his time that he could be on break to try and get a worker's shoe out so they don't have to go home in flipflops and can get back to work.  Yes, the shoe is still in the RCA not because the tech is inexperienced, but that the shoe just isn't coming out without major surgery to cut the tread off, in which case the shoe is trash anyway.  I challenge this tie to try and do the work of a tech under the conditions that we are facing.  I'll switch my jumps in the drywell any day for his coffee and doughnuts in the OCC.  I probably push more paper than he does anyway, so it will be a nice break, and I won't even have to deal with a tenth of the work crews that I have to deal with now.

[roadhp]

Oh, did I mention that the techs were asked to work their 7th day, and the vast majority of them turned it down...when have you heard of even 50% of techs turning down an extra day of work in a 19 day outage. 

[Melrose]

Roady.... thanks for substantiating everything that I've stated.....  whether the shoe is in or out is irrelevant.  You've missed the point, it's the crappy attitude of the techs on site, not just this one but several on the list that span across the site from the access point to the DW, to the TBOF.  I don't think I can be any clearer than that.  Gotta go put my feet up, sip my coffee, nibble my donuts and piss some other gullible sap off.
KUDOS for being as quick to fall apart as the MAC bozo.
 


Edited for language.

[retired nuke]

Had to come and make this post, probably should wait til I've cooled off a bit.  Here goes anyway.

Just left access, the MAC, tried helping a tech there, I didn't know him, he didn't know me.  He obviously was struggling with the release of a contaminated shoe, using the tape, the pancake probe, the whole bit.  He just wasn't cognizant enough to realize the pancake doesn't fit into the tread of the shoe.  I won't go into too much detail... save getting spun up all over again.
I really musta touched a nerve, cuz I got the whole laid back, cynical, fuqd up attitude that most of the "RPTs" (non-commercial nuke types) heroes have here at Oyster.  Rather than a simple thanks, and just go about doing what he thought was right and THE ONLY way to do it, I get the whole story about, "yeah I been dun doin' dis 'bout 23 year now, I guess I got a vague idee 'bout what I'm doin", ..... what a d%$head,
I asked him why he hadn't learned anything in 23 years, or if after 23 years he hadn't realized that he hadn't learned anything, that's why he's still stuck being a friskall cop.  (Did I mention... the shoe is still in the RCA?)

People like him and others here..... they're exactly why there are times that I don't miss the job.

Haven't missed an OCC meeting yet, to this date there hasn't been a day pass that a complaint hasnt' arose about the B staff.  Really hate hearing it, but truth be told, the ball has been dropped.  Slow movers, bad attitudes, and techs that lack experience ('experience', not 'time') make for a nasty black eye on the blue machine.

Where I work, the RP tech surveys the shoe, determines the level of contamination, and may make an attempt to decon it. Generally, we don't. Company has a replacement policy, get new shoes. I realize there are a dozen ways to survey / decon shoes, and other things, but most plants nowadays don't staff up to give techs the time to decon and release minor material like that. And if someone wanted to give me direction / attitude about how it was being done - they would get an opportunity to do it themselves. I work hard to get the people out, not worried about material...
Many of the techs here aren't working the 7th day either...had some laborers choose a layoff rather than stay to be LHRA guards. Too much to do, with fewer folks each time.
If you want to complain about techs work ethics, how about observing how they are treated - no breaks (tag teamed by work crews), short staffed, lack of competent and clear direction, and everyone is a higher priority than you. Go back to the OCC, and stay there.

[Melrose]

Where I work, the RP tech surveys the shoe, determines the level of contamination, and may make an attempt to decon it. Generally, we don't. Company has a replacement policy, get new shoes. I realize there are a dozen ways to survey / decon shoes, and other things, but most plants nowadays don't staff up to give techs the time to decon and release minor material like that. And if someone wanted to give me direction / attitude about how it was being done - they would get an opportunity to do it themselves. I work hard to get the people out, not worried about material...
Many of the techs here aren't working the 7th day either...had some laborers choose a layoff rather than stay to be LHRA guards. Too much to do, with fewer folks each time.
If you want to complain about techs work ethics, how about observing how they are treated - no breaks (tag teamed by work crews), short staffed, lack of competent and clear direction, and everyone is a higher priority than you. Go back to the OCC, and stay there.

Next.....
Been there done that, techin' is the only craft in the nuke world that is not considered a skill..... hmmmmmm,  wonder why.
You get beat up cuz you let yourself get beat up....
No breaks???  Against the law ain't it.  Probably not happening.
Don't like the way you're treated... go somewhere else, find another profession or get therapy... simple as that.  There's no arm twistin' goin' on.
If how you're treated matters that much when you're only working a few months a year... you got issues, stay home, let the family coddle you.
No matter how you're treated, how competent directors are or where you fall on the food chain.... your ethical habits should remain the same, ie-above standard.
Don't leave a bad mark for the big blue cuz you're pissed off, work like you know you should, go home with a little change in your pockets, then remember how you were treated next time you get the call to attend the next outage.

again..... screw the shoe, the shoe's not the point.  You guys are killin' me, 

[let-it-ride]

I don't know how you guys do it anymore.  I have been in the biz for 21 years. Most (15-16 yrs) in commercial.  I would not change 5 minutes of it. Good days, bad days, everything was exciting, fun, and I learned something from everywhere I was. If I could go back, I would do everything again.

Not today however.

I saw the light when I had to do 6 outages just to get 9-10 months of work. When we went from 100 techs to 30-40.

I went the way of doing the government jobs. Pay is ok, but most sites now are doing away with per diem.

Anyway, most of the people who post here, I know and have worked with many times and lots of places.   Guys (and Gals)  you are not tied in to a job. If you are mistreated, leave. Don't like the working conditions, area, leave. It isn't hard to do and there are always other jobs.

I can't do 72 hour weeks anymore. I liked the work but age catches up. Now 4/10s are a drag.  Guess it is time to drag up and go to a beach in Mexico for the next ten years.

[SloGlo]

dang!  it's good two sea dat da nu joisey attitude ain't dead.  had nuff of working in dat state after 2 weeks, thurty sum years ago.  ain't bin bak.  dew knot mist it.

[roadhp]

Next.....
Been there done that, techin' is the only craft in the nuke world that is not considered a skill..... hmmmmmm,  wonder why.
You get beat up cuz you let yourself get beat up....
No breaks???  Against the law ain't it.  Probably not happening.
Don't like the way you're treated... go somewhere else, find another profession or get therapy... simple as that.  There's no arm twistin' goin' on.
If how you're treated matters that much when you're only working a few months a year... you got issues, stay home, let the family coddle you.
No matter how you're treated, how competent directors are or where you fall on the food chain.... your ethical habits should remain the same, ie-above standard.
Don't leave a bad mark for the big blue cuz you're pissed off, work like you know you should, go home with a little change in your pockets, then remember how you were treated next time you get the call to attend the next outage.

again..... screw the shoe, the shoe's not the point.  You guys are killin' me, 

You're right, it isn't the shoe, it is the attitude of people like you for RP in general.  RP is the only difference between a chemical plant and nuclear.  But we don't just get hammered for RP related stuff, we have to be safety because you and your kind don't care, we have to be housekeeping because you can't pick up your mess, we have to be diplomats because you can't work well with other groups, and we have to be nursery workers because you can't even wipe your a$$ without blaming RP for the mess you have caused.  As far as the skill, you must not have swung a meter for very long or you would know what kind of skill it takes to be able to assess a situation from all points of view and try to make an area or job work without crapping up the world or overexposing workers, and still keep the OCC off your backs because you have a big target.  Your suggestion of finding another proffession has been taken by quite a few techs, which is why it is so hard to staff an outage these days even in a slow season.  And you can ask all of your GE buddies about what kind of a mark I leave on Big Blue, it is better than the mark you have just left on all of supervision.  By the way, I did my homework, and the tech you first mentioned wasn't even Bartlett, he was house!  That means you can't even read the Licensee on a badge, but just assumed it was Bartlett because you wanted someone to blow steam off on.  BTW SloGlo, I'm from the South, and we can get attitudes, too.

[Melrose]

Wait... let me clear the tears outa my eyes......
OK all better....

You haven't gotten it yet have you?
Everyone's enjoying this.  I talk about whining, you whine, I mention complaining.... you complain.  You just keep on falling in.
BTW.... I spoke with the bad attitude, he was wearing a 'contractor' badge... and later, a blue hard hat that had big white letters across the front... you know what they spelled.
This is too fun.... ,
You've been such an easy lure. 
There's always one, thanks for entertaining us, Patsy.

[roadhp]

Lies are always too easy to tell from the truth.  The techs at the MAC NEVER wear a hard hat as they are exempt.  Better get your story straight, and next time actually look at the tech instead of having your nose so far up in the air that you would drown in a rain storm.  Your attitude is the one in question.  I guess when you are whining for RP coverage because of the lack of techs, the only one to blame is yourself for getting us to realize what a mistake it was to try and help you out of the mess you and your craft have caused.  Your lack of planning no longer constitutes an emergency on my part, I need a break.  BTW, you are the one who needs to find another proffession, since RP is your issue and you can't go to a nuclear plant without RP.  I hear the refineries are looking for some good craft to abuse.

[Radwraith]

Wait... let me clear the tears outa my eyes......
OK all better....

You haven't gotten it yet have you?
Everyone's enjoying this.  I talk about whining, you whine, I mention complaining.... you complain.  You just keep on falling in.
BTW.... I spoke with the bad attitude, he was wearing a 'contractor' badge... and later, a blue hard hat that had big white letters across the front... you know what they spelled.
This is too fun.... ,
You've been such an easy lure. 
There's always one, thanks for entertaining us, Patsy.

Melrose, You are right about how easy it is to bait us RP's. You have also given me wisdom in one other matter... I will NEVER set foot in OYSTER CREEK as long as I know people like you are running it! I also encourage all of my fellow contractor slugs to the same. That way, You won't have to be burdened by our whiny, bad attitudes! Good luck with your future outages. BTW: I'm not at Oyster and it looks like I never will be...

[RRhoads]

Ok..iam sure this Topic is prob. in the wrong place....
To all.....Oyster Creek has been discussed at lenght here....Follow the link & you will find some pretty helpful advice about Oyster Creek.
Here is a sample of a posting from that Thread..

I could care less. The last I checked Oyster Creek doesn't affect my pay or bonus.

Mike

Ditto!
I wrote that place off in 1992!
It's on par with Perry!

Again, look at these Topics before you confirm to go to these plants, it could be very enlightening!
Doesn't sound like much has changed in 16 years tho! esp the attitude.

[Rennhack]

BTW, "RemBoy " and "Melrose" have the same IP address, and RemBoy's email address is "m_rose69@". 

Officially, this site does not condone more than one user name.

[RRhoads]

Hum..thats odd!

[HydroDave63]

BTW, "RemBoy " and "Melrose" have the same IP address, and RemBoy's email address is "m_rose69@".  So now he is taliking to himself, and congradulating himself.

Self-stimulating in public, isn't he?

[retired nuke]

BTW, "RemBoy " and "Melrose" have the same IP address, and RemBoy's email address is "m_rose69@". 

Officially, this site does not condone more than one user name.

Hmmm, and since neither is a GM, maybe a bit of time off the board may correct the situation / attitude??

[justatech]

BTW, "RemBoy " and "Melrose" have the same IP address, and RemBoy's email address is "m_rose69@". 

Now that's funny......I thought Melrose was a female...............you know like in that night soap "Melrose Place" maybe it's "Remboy's" wife? If so I fill sorry for the dude - Melrose is a real %&#@!       might be why he goes by "boy"............

[SloGlo]

BTW SloGlo, I'm from the South, and we can get attitudes, too.

did aye ebber say attitude wuz a bad ting?  butt, eye wuz tawking moor about da attytude of da natives.... 'n wuz tinking dat suits 'n ties usually feal like there local, even iffen der frum acrost da countree.

[NJ]

Melrose:  It's house techs like you that bring out the attitude you are talking about...that's crap!  People act as they are treated...get a life!

[Austria]

I only worked OC once (Nights, Turbine Deck) but still I have to say I never met a house tech with a bad attitude or one that discriminated against contractors.

Oh wait  I never actually met a house tech. They were always gone before I showed up (early) for turnover. Didn't matter what was going on...what kind of parts (rotors, inner or outer shells, etc...) were being flown...they were just nonexistent as far as us night-shifters were concerned. And in the morning it was always a contractor or a "shared resources" tech from another plant that showed up for turnover.

I have to be honest...I had a great outage there. We had our own world, a great supervisor and good work crews. And we never dealt with house techs.

[rabbit]

It seems too many people out there are waiting for a good battle.

Melrose, Why did you go from RP to your newest profession?  Money? Better job?  Not having to deal with other RP's who either knew more than you, less than you, or were the "favored one"?  Personally, I can't evaluate your RP skills as we were at different control points the last time we were RP's together.  But having friends in higher places has helped you get the job you currently have.  Also, cut the RP a break already!!  We are overworked and trying to get thru an outage that has been challenging on many levels.  RP management is not consistent in their knowledge of how things are done in other systems.  What we know to do our jobs is considered wrong at times at OC.  Very frustrating.

HouseDad, remember, boneheads and space cadets have to start somewhere.  They have even been in your Drywell.  Right Melrose?  In '99?  Although Melrose did not start there, he has been to your "house".

To all who care....which I'm sure is not too many....Some, if not the majority, of techs working this outage were told that if they wanted to work Peach then they had to come here.  It was a choice they made and if they are whining about the work conditions, then they need to talk to Denise Leasure.  I, myself, and me decided we were in great need of some well deserved rest and left work early.  I'm recharging my batteries so that I can perform my job as skillfully, respectfully, efficiently and most important, above all, CORRECTLY.

To all......have a great day!!!!!!

[Brett LaVigne]

A little late on this post and apologies if this has already been said but I just couldn't read any more than 3 or 4 replies...

On the shoe. It has become our DUTY to bend over backwards to decon items for people coming out of the RCA. Why? If it's contaminated and it is a personal item like a shoe, it is a courteous thing to do to make an attempt to get the item back to the person but it should not be our duty. It is our duty to ensure no licensed material leaves the RCA, period.

On the Bad attitudes. We all see it. On the one hand, there is an argument for spending 9 -10 hours/day in the RCA even when work doesn't dictate it. Some utilities seem to expect this and it is not right. The outage I am working currently seems to be one of those utilities. I can't say that I have had a bad time, and I can't say that I have not pissed and moaned from time to time but I sure try not to. The reason I try not to is this...I am here for a few weeks and then I get to go home or to another job and decide if I want to come back for the next one. Even though this plant has the tendency to treat us as if we are a production department, I believe that it comes from a level beyond the management I enterface with daily. I find most of the house people to be tremendous and the work enjoyable so I will be back. My point is that we have a choice so if you don't like something about the plant you are working, make your point and make it in a professional manner to someone that may have enough power to make a difference. If your point is deemed unimportant, do what they expect you to do, even if you don't like it and then decide not to come back. But more than anything, do your best to not spread the hate and discontent. I know it is hard to not get caught up in it and sometimes it helps to vent a little with a friend but venting with everyone that will listen is counterproductive and even if you are right, it gets translated that the whole Bartlett group is nothing but a bunch of lazy whiners.

This has been Brett's 2 cents

[roadhp]

Maybe you should read the whole stream.  I wasn't just venting, I was responding to attacks from an individual on this board from someone to whom the whole idea of RP is a speed bump that needs to be removed so he can do his work faster.  I'm glad he isn't an RP anymore, 'cause he is the kind of RP that gives us a bad name.  But I like your point of the licensed material.  I try to use that point every time someone says, "You have to get this out."  It isn't my job to get it out, it is my job to keep it in until it is ready to be released.

[retired nuke]

Maybe you should read the whole stream.  I wasn't just venting, I was responding to attacks from an individual on this board from someone to whom the whole idea of RP is a speed bump that needs to be removed so he can do his work faster.  I'm glad he isn't an RP anymore, 'cause he is the kind of RP that gives us a bad name.  But I like your point of the licensed material.  I try to use that point every time someone says, "You have to get this out."  It isn't my job to get it out, it is my job to keep it in until it is ready to be released.

During an outage a few years ago, I hung a sign at my checkpoint in the TB bldg (lots of folks wanted stuff out there) it said:

It is not my job to release material from the RCA
It is my job to ensure that NO radioactive material is released from the RCA.

I didn't have as much problem after that.   

[wlrun3@aol.com]

During an outage a few years ago, I hung a sign at my checkpoint in the TB bldg (lots of folks wanted stuff out there) it said:

It is not my job to release material from the RCA
It is my job to ensure that NO radioactive material is released from the RCA.

I didn't have as much problem after that.   

   ...what is the practice at VY for radon daughter products...

   

[retired nuke]

   ...what is the practice at VY for radon daughter products...

   

Has to be verified by isotopic analysis - we can use the HPGe or fast scan WBC for identification, but not quantification...If it doesn't fit in there, it's just RAM.
 

[Already Gone]

Holy Birdsh!t Batman!

Touch a nerve or two did ya, Melrose?

FWIW, I stopped trying to coach the RP techs on site a long time ago.  It doesn't do any good.  You will find that any other profession or trade on site - just about any site - will listen to you, thank you, and either try what you suggest or ignore you.  But, they will listen intently, and thank you politely either way.

HP's just don't do that in a lot of cases.  The house techs are usually pretty good, but not so much the contractors.  Doesn't matter if they are Bartlett or Atlantic.  They would rather argue with you that they know the job and you don't.

Seems that they fail to recognize the vast numbers of former RP's who are working in other capacities in many nuke plants.  I think they assume that everyone who is not working as one right now has never worked in RP in their lives and don't understand the extremely technical nature of their work (is there a tongue in cheek emoticon?)

I have seen an HP/RP type totally blow off an SRO (who was a former Sr. HP) who was trying to give a helpful heads-up to the guy.  All he got in return was rudeness.  I have had an RP tell me that I don't understand how a meter works, so I shouldn't touch it. ( I was just trying to keep it from being stepped on. GEEZ)

There just isn't any point in trying to talk to them any more unless you know them personally -- and most of the RP's I run into whom I know personally don't need any help from me anyway.  So, I don't bother anymore.  Tough as it is Melrose, you ought to give up too.

[Melrose]

 
I hear ya BC, actually been wondering if you've seen the thread.  You noticed though, the conversation stopped, for the reasons you stated, rather than listen or show signs of intelligent rhetoric, they mass together like Cuban buzzards knocking banana rats outa trees, insulting and skewing facts in hopes of inciting more posts. 
Kudos to a couple of the latest posts though.. very well thought out and smartly expressed.
Thank you for rekindling my hopes of intelligent life existing on this site.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

Has to be verified by isotopic analysis - we can use the HPGe or fast scan WBC for identification, but not quantification...If it doesn't fit in there, it's just RAM.
 

   ...isn't there a method covered in the prodedure that allows expedient evaluation at the RCA egress control point...

[RDTroja]

Note the OCC in this quote.  Obviously this is a tie that doesn't know what is going on here.  The techs are having to spend 10 to 12 hours in the RCA covering his work that he can't schedule right because otherwise there would be enough techs in the plant to at least get the Federally mandated amount of breaks, but have to spend most of that break travelling to a break trailer that is at the extreme end of the plant just to have a supervisor tell them that they are needed in the plant and their break or lunch will have to wait, and then have supervisors (one in particular) try to switch around techs without consulting the lead techs about what work is going on, but yelling at them for having techs standing around IN THEIR WORK AREA waiting on jobs that have been scheduled, briefed, and are just waiting for the craft to come back from their union mandated break, but can't go on break themselves because there are a dozen or more work groups that might need help in that space of time.
It is also obvious that this person has never been a tech covering real work, because he would have a little more understanding about what a tech with tape and a frisker can do to get a shoe out, and that the tech is taking his time that he could be on break to try and get a worker's shoe out so they don't have to go home in flipflops and can get back to work.  Yes, the shoe is still in the RCA not because the tech is inexperienced, but that the shoe just isn't coming out without major surgery to cut the tread off, in which case the shoe is trash anyway.  I challenge this tie to try and do the work of a tech under the conditions that we are facing.  I'll switch my jumps in the drywell any day for his coffee and doughnuts in the OCC.  I probably push more paper than he does anyway, so it will be a nice break, and I won't even have to deal with a tenth of the work crews that I have to deal with now.

I have started typing a reply to this thread a couple of times only to quit when I couldn't find a way to do it without sounding condescending enough to get dismissed as another 'tie' as roadhp so eloquently put it (I don't wear ties to work.) Unfortunately I also have to repeat myself once again to make a point. But here I go again...

If technicians are "having to spend 10 to 12 hours in the RCA" there is a problem. but the root cause is the technicians, not management. There is no way that I would work as a technician without getting breaks on 12 hour days and you shouldn't either. Management is going to ask (and when they ask it often sounds like 'require') you to do whatever they think they need done. They don't care if it is reasonable or not, they are going to ask for it. YOU get to decide if it is reasonable or not. As long as they find someone willing to kill themselves for the good of the company, they are going to continue to ask. Don't do it. For yourself and those that come behind you, don't do it. If you ever want to get treated as a professional and get paid what you are worth, you can't be a doormat. Unfortunately, if you let yourself get treated like a doormat that hurts the rest of us, too. It is OK to say "No, I can't do that right now, I need a break" particularly if the job is trying to decon somebody else's shoe. Naturally, if you abuse that statement you will have a problem.

I am not saying it is OK to be lazy or to refuse to do a legitimate amount of work. I am not saying to pick and choose which jobs are acceptable to you based on what you like or don't like to do (although there should be limits on what a professional HP does.) I am saying that if you let yourself get treated badly it will get worse. I walked away from a good job because I refused to be treated exactly the way you are describing. It was not easy, but it was the right thing to do and no one will ever convince me otherwise. I had to leave a place I liked working and pass on my first teaching opportunity to make my point, but I did it. I was working a week later.

I don't know who you are or what your background is, so I don't know how you have been treated in the past, but I can tell you this with no hesitation: If you are not getting breaks it is your own fault. If you work in a place that abuses you, that is your fault, too. You are in the process of making it worse for yourself and the rest of us. Management will usually treat you as badly as you let them... in a way it is their job. It is your job not to let them. Give them an honest day's work. Be a professional and demand to be treated as one. Be willing to walk away from situations you find intolerable. And keep your standards high enough to keep yourself satisfied and happy with your job. Everyone will benefit if we all do it.

I know who Melrose is and I know that he has plenty of experience as a technician. If he hasn't done the same work under the same conditions, perhaps that is because he would not allow himself to be caught working under those conditions. While I am sure your intentions are noble, you are not doing anyone any favors by working or acting like you are... well, you are certainly doing management a favor, but they really don't appreciate it.

[stownsend]

He obviously was struggling with the release of a contaminated shoe, using the tape, the pancake probe, the whole bit.  He just wasn't cognizant enough to realize the pancake doesn't fit into the tread of the shoe. 

Did he explain to you that the probe doesn't have to be in contact with the inside tread. If the probe is less than or equal to one half an inch and less than the station limit of corrected counts let it go.You wouldn't do a frisk where you would contaminate the probe would you?

[Already Gone]

You see? You are doing the exact same thing that I was talking about.  Did anyone tell you that Melrose is an ANSI 31. Senior Health Physics Technician?  Did anyone tell you that he doesn't need you or me to tell him how to use a pancake probe?

All he was trying to do was help out a tech who obviously didn't have a mastery of his job and equipment - and all he got in return was a smartass answer.  An answer that 1. assumed that Melrose didn't know as much about RP work as the DOE reject he was trying to help and 2. assumed that holding down a chair in an HP breakroom for a bunch of years was some sort of substitute for technical competency.  An answer that on both counts was totally wrong.

The "tech" wasn't using the probe to survey the shoe, he was obviously using the back of it to press the tape into the sole - and it won't fit into the tread to get the tape up into there.

Am I the ONLY person to have read that and understood that part?

The damned point he was making here in the first place is that some of these underqualified people who are passing themselves off as HP techs are too stubborn and full of themselves to accept a little help from someone who is just trying to make things a little easier for them.

If a tech wants to struggle for an hour trying to decon a boot with tape on the bottom of the tread - when the contamination is stuck up inside the tread - fine.  But he better not be bitching that he never gets a break.  If the @s$h01e would have listened to Melrose -instead of talking back to him - he would have had time for a game of cribbage and a doughnut.

[Laundry Man]

BC,
'he would have had time for a game of cribbage ", darn during my time as a house Rad Engineer at the Creek no one ever told me a game was going on.  Maybe I would have stayed .
LM

[Already Gone]

If you were a house rad engineer, there's your answer.

Cribbage requires the ability to do math and get a correct answer.  If you can't count, they won't let you play. 

[RDTroja]

If you were a house rad engineer, there's your answer.

Cribbage requires the ability to do math and get a correct answer.  If you can't count, they won't let you play. 

If you were a house rad engineer, there's your answer.

Cribbage requires the ability to do math and get a correct answer.  If you can't count, they won't let you play. 

Ahhh.. but its not just math and counting. You need the secret code, too: Fifteen-2, Fifteen 4, Double Run Royal... and the ultimate 19 point hand. Very technical stuff.

[Already Gone]

Actually, 29 is the ultimate hand.
19 is impossible in cribbage - and I am totally clueless as to why it is impossible.

Maybe I ought to be a Rad Engineer.  Come to think of it Melrose is a Rad Engineer.  Which is probably why he had the time to help this guy - he couldn't play cribbage.

[RDTroja]

Actually, 29 is the ultimate hand.
19 is impossible in cribbage - and I am totally clueless as to why it is impossible.

Maybe I ought to be a Rad Engineer.  Come to think of it Melrose is a Rad Engineer.  Which is probably why he had the time to help this guy - he couldn't play cribbage.

Ummm.... my point exactly. I couldn't find the sarcasm emoticon, either. Did that make a whooshing noise as it went by? 

[Already Gone]

You only count five cards and the scoring combinations, via those five cards, makes a 19 impossible.

29 = 4/5's and the right Jack!

RG

This is where my OCD is going to take over.  I am now going to be compelled to get a deck of cards and go through every possible combination of 5 cards - runs, double runs, doubles, triples, 15's, the whole bit - to prove that 19 is not possible.

Gee thanks guys.

[Rennhack]

This is where my OCD is going to take over.  I am now going to be compelled to get a deck of cards and go through every possible combination of 5 cards - runs, double runs, doubles, triples, 15's, the whole bit - to prove that 19 is not possible.

Been there, done that.

Now... about those Bartlett techs at Oyster Creek...

[stownsend]

This is where my OCD is going to take over.  I am now going to be compelled to get a deck of cards and go through every possible combination of 5 cards - runs, double runs, doubles, triples, 15's, the whole bit - to prove that 19 is not possible.

Gee thanks guys.

After 49 years of playing cribbage I swear on my dogs wife's life that 19 is not possible.It's the old saying when you have no points in your hand to say you have 19.Everyone knows what you mean.If they don't I try to get them to wager a small amount on the game.

[Laundry Man]

If you were a house rad engineer, there's your answer.

Cribbage requires the ability to do math and get a correct answer.  If you can't count, they won't let you play. 

I can count, divide, multiply, heck I even remember some calculus.  I just don't think we had had time to hide and play.
LM

[Already Gone]

Hide?
These guys don't hide.  They don't have to hide.
Did you hear the bitching about spending 10 hours in the RCA?
Considering that an RP's job is in the RCA, and they are on site for 12.5 hours (getting paid for 12).
Let's count these cards.
12.5 -0.5 for lunch = 12
12 - 0.5 for dinner = 11.5
11.5 - 0.5 for breaks (2 at 15 min each) = 11
Thus, one could reasonably determine that 11 hours inside the RCA is what is expected.  That is how much time the owner of the boot has to spend in the RCA every day.  And he is standing there waiting for this RP to quit eating up his very short break time trying to decon the damned thing and then bitching about how it cuts into his break time
But if RP's are in for a minute over 6 of those 12.5 hours, they are ready to drag up.
So, let's count the cards in that stack.
12.5 - 1 hour for meals = 11.5
11.5 - 6 hours in the RCA = 5.5 hours of cribbage time.

We have had it easy for so long that we really have no concept of what is difficult any more.

If you think that math is cockeyed, figure that ANSI 3.1 qualifications are routinely figured at 50 hours per week even though we never spent more than 36 hours in any week actually working.

Mike, how'd you like that segue back on topic?

[Rennhack]

Mike, how'd you like that segue back on topic?

Good enough.

[Laundry Man]

Actually back in the day we played a heck of a lot more Hearts than anything else.  Sorry Mike.
LM

[RDTroja]

Hide?
These guys don't hide.  They don't have to hide.
Did you hear the bitching about spending 10 hours in the RCA?
Considering that an RP's job is in the RCA, and they are on site for 12.5 hours (getting paid for 12).
Let's count these cards.
12.5 -0.5 for lunch = 12
12 - 0.5 for dinner = 11.5
11.5 - 0.5 for breaks (2 at 15 min each) = 11
Thus, one could reasonably determine that 11 hours inside the RCA is what is expected.  That is how much time the owner of the boot has to spend in the RCA every day.  And he is standing there waiting for this RP to quit eating up his very short break time trying to decon the damned thing and then bitching about how it cuts into his break time
But if RP's are in for a minute over 6 of those 12.5 hours, they are ready to drag up.
So, let's count the cards in that stack.
12.5 - 1 hour for meals = 11.5
11.5 - 6 hours in the RCA = 5.5 hours of cribbage time.

We have had it easy for so long that we really have no concept of what is difficult any more.

If you think that math is cockeyed, figure that ANSI 3.1 qualifications are routinely figured at 50 hours per week even though we never spent more than 36 hours in any week actually working.

Mike, how'd you like that segue back on topic?

Troy --

You are usually pretty good at math but I am going to dispute some of your premises.

For starters, the time counted toward break (at least for a union worker, and usually other craft workers, too) starts when they are back out of the RCA... travel and dress time doesn't count for the break. (Shoe decon probably does.) So you have to about double the lunch and dinner and about triple the breaks. Also the last half hour is 'clean-up' or turnover, or prep to leave or whatever you want to call it. That gives 12.5 - 1 - 1 -.75 -.75 - .5 = 8.5 hours actually in and working. And that is if the job is ready and there are no briefs and the other crews are there and and and. So maximum of 7.5 hours is more realistic. Probably less on average.

As for all the time an HP has doing 2 in and 2 out is actually on the job for 2 hours each time. So, working up this time, we get 6 hours in + turnover which ranges from 0 to 15 minutes depending on the work (times 3 jumps) is maybe 30 minutes. If you did any surveys or air samples or other documented work, there is 10 to 30 minutes each time (or more) for paperwork when you come out... another hour total. Then there are briefs, collect supplies, source check an instrument and other miscellaneous work that eat up probably 30 minutes minimum each day, sometimes much more. So there is 8 working. Plus you have to add to work time (or subtract from cribbage, but that is not on topic) how long it takes to get dressed and travel to the work site which easily takes 20 minutes each jump to get in and maybe only 15 to get out. So, lets say 30 each jump total (probably more) for another 1.5 hours which totals 9.5 hours spent on the actual work part. If you actually go get a meal or two (or heat yours up and eat it while not in the card room) take away another hour. Grand total of 12.5 - 10.5 or 2 hours out of your 12.5 left to relax and recuperate. Granted there is often more, but there is also often less.

Having said all of that there are still lots of techs (mostly on non-containment or 'project' type jobs) that get lots of time. But the concept that 2 in and 2 out means 6 hours of work and 6 hours of play is just plain bogus and always has been.

[stownsend]

You also have to remember Troy is brainwashed from that utility right above NYC that feel the HP schedule should be 4 in, 2 out and 4 in, then go home.While the two out is get your 30 minute unpaid lunch at 10 am and we'll give you a survey to do so your not sitting around. By the way go home after the last 4 hour jump because we don't want to pay you for the last two hours.But while your in go do surveys in a posted remediation asbestos job and if you complain two days off for you.Good ol "Shannon" days.

[Laundry Man]

Steve,
Remember hearts in the old respirator fit booth room.  Aah the day when he was a supervisor.  Did see him out at SONGS when he was/is? with the NRC.
LM

[Already Gone]

Shannon gave me a day off for sleeping in containment because I was too busy talking to a generator jumper to snap to attention when he showed up at my CP.  The egg on his face was priceless when I came back two days later and he had to pay me for the time off.  Turns out that the whole headset conversation was recorded, and he had to check it.

Saw him 20 years later at SONGS.  Five minutes into containment and he lost his PED - destroyed it actually.

But we did 3 in 3 out back at the IP2 days.  And there were a lot of guys well into their third beer at Johnny Ritz before they went off the clock for the night.

Roger, you are totally deluded if you think that even a noticeable percentage of techs work a schedule like that.  All that stuff that you say they are doing to prepare for or finish off from their time in the RCA is done the other way around.  They leave the CP early to write up surveys, and relieve late because dressing out took them too long or they had to pick up a meter on the way in (waking up 5 minutes before relief time had something to do with it too.)
The firm part of the schedule is the 2 or 3 out, and everything else works around that.

But, the problem as I have stated it is that you and all the good techs are working too hard to notice that a lot of techs are already back at the campground during that final 2 or 3 hours out at the end of shift.  You don't notice that they showed up late because you weren't going to split right away anyway.  You don't notice that they are cutting out early because you got too far into what you were doing to notice that they left you a mess to clean up.  You just clean it up.

Your statement that the 2 and 2 is not 2 work and 2 play is entirely true.  Now, just go convince the techs of that.

[Bonds 25]

And the proper way to handle deconning the boot.....throw it in the RAD trash...let the site buy him some new ones.

[Rennhack]

Actually back in the day we played a heck of a lot more Hearts than anything else.  Sorry Mike.

That totally depends on what part of the country you are in.  I assume you mean OC.  If not... here in the midwest its non-stop Euchre.

[Already Gone]

And the proper way to handle deconning the boot.....throw it in the RAD trash...let the site buy him some new ones.

Depends on the site.  But what is the guy supposed to do for boots until then?

[Bonds 25]

The same thing he does if his boots cant be deconned....goes without boots...Thanks to Davis Messy doing a great job of letting RAD material leave its beautiful site, most plants will not approve any release of material once it is deemed to be radioactive or has even been in RCA for that matter....for any reason.  Pretty soon, if INPO keeps doing what ever it wants, all material/ tools needing to be free released will have to be OK'd by the plant manager.  After just witnessing 2 weeks of INPO, I must say that one of these plants needs to get some balls and say....GET THE HELL OUT...but thats another story

[Already Gone]

Why not just spray some yellow paint on the toe and let the guy wear it in the RCA?
Saves rad waste cost - at least postpones it.  and the guy has a boot to wear to work for the rest of the day.
Still, not a bad idea to pay him for the boots too.  Only, you won't have to pay him for a second pair this way.
Lots of plants have shelves for RCA-only shoes.

Gotta say I totally agree about INPO.  But Barry Bonds?  Dude can't take a steroid pill because he'd choke on it.

[Bonds 25]

Although the yellow paint sounds like a good idea, I cant think of one place where they would let that fly.  These plants are so worried about contamination, that a lot of them are forgetting about whats truly important....DOSE...I blame IMPO for this....and please don't pick on the greatest baseball player ever...it hurts my feelings.  And while I'm here...let me give my opinion on Oyster Creek...Its a *&$%hole, most ugliest plant I have been to (seen 20 others) damn concrete block with a stack, no grass, no paint and no respect for contractors....so my suggestion is to stop going if you don't like it, I myself cannot believe people still attend their outages.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

Although the yellow paint sounds like a good idea, I cant think of one place where they would let that fly.  These plants are so worried about contamination, that a lot of them are forgetting about whats truly important....DOSE...I blame IMPO for this....and please don't pick on the greatest baseball player ever...it hurts my feelings.  And while I'm here...let me give my opinion on Oyster Creek...Its a *&$%hole, most ugliest plant I have been to (seen 20 others) damn concrete block with a stack, no grass, no paint and no respect for contractors....so my suggestion is to stop going if you don't like it, I myself cannot believe people still attend their outages.

   ...rp management was outstanding, utility rp technician staff was extraordinarily knowledgeable, contamination control was conspicuously effective, ops and i&c personnel were brilliant, the reactor was a pleasure to work on...
   ...thankyou oyster creek...

 

[Laundry Man]

That totally depends on what part of the country you are in.  I assume you mean OC.  If not... here in the midwest its non-stop Euchre.

Nope, IP2 back from 80 to 85 or so.  Spent much of my youth inside the crane wall on the 46'.  I seem to remember 4 in and 4 out, but the 4 out was making jump packs etc or going to pick up lunches at Feronis.
LM

[stownsend]

Why not just spray some yellow paint on the toe and let the guy wear it in the RCA?
Saves rad waste cost - at least postpones it.  and the guy has a boot to wear to work for the rest of the day.
Still, not a bad idea to pay him for the boots too.  Only, you won't have to pay him for a second pair this way.
Lots of plants have shelves for RCA-only shoes.

Gotta say I totally agree about INPO. 

I've seen RCA shoes work if they have facilities inside the RCA to store your personnel clothes and the facility buys off on the cleanliness of it.The first time someone is seen walking around without shoes to the locker room or God forbid he stubs his toe and you have a work related injury.Then you have to ask him to go through the pcm twice because he was walking around in the rca without shoes on.The paperwork for a DART case is endless.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

wlrun2,

What Year and Refueling were you there?

RG

   ...my name is Bill Runge...

[Already Gone]

Although the yellow paint sounds like a good idea, I cant think of one place where they would let that fly.  These plants are so worried about contamination, that a lot of them are forgetting about whats truly important....DOSE...I blame IMPO for this....and please don't pick on the greatest baseball player ever...it hurts my feelings.  And while I'm here...let me give my opinion on Oyster Creek...Its a *&$%hole, most ugliest plant I have been to (seen 20 others) damn concrete block with a stack, no grass, no paint and no respect for contractors....so my suggestion is to stop going if you don't like it, I myself cannot believe people still attend their outages.

It was an old $h!t hole the last time I worked there too .... 1989.  I don't imagine it got any newer or better in the last 20 years.

Several plants have a boot change area where you can swap shoes inside the RCA.  If you are an outage contractor, they appreciate it if you trash them at the end of the outage.  House guys sometimes even get a locker in there.

Best player who ever lived?  How about 0 for the playoffs for two years in a row?  Seriously.  You'll never convince a Pittsburgher that he is a great player.  He is a really good player, but great players are great when the pressure is on.

Laundry, if you were  at IP2 ICW on 46' you were sucking a lot of rubber, man.  I remember the first time I went in there.  Boric Acid stalagmites all over the floor.  Puddles, steam leaks, operators jumping down off the piping.  Pete's Pit!!!    UGH! It was the first time I ever was in a commercial reactor containment.  Every job has been easy since then.

[Laundry Man]

Beautiful place the 46'.  I was there when lower containment flooded after fan cooler loss, Westinghouses first shot at nozzle dams, generator man-way machining, TMI mods.  Saw many a fresh squid show up and get 300 mr their first dive.  A little shocked they were having never gotten that much the whole time in the Navy.  Some great people there though, Frank V. and Ropper come to mind.  Working with PGM was a treat.  True story, someone was giving me crap and I had enough and told him so, one of my PGM buddies from the Bronx asks me if I want the guy taken care of, as in permanently taken care of.  Had to decline that one.  Lot of fun one the Unit 1 roof.
LM

[SloGlo]

Several plants have a boot change area where you can swap shoes inside the RCA.  If you are an outage contractor, they appreciate it if you trash them at the end of the outage.  House guys sometimes even get a locker in there.

watts da max contamination level allowed on does  hot shoes for r.c.a. work?

[stownsend]

Several plants have a boot change area where you can swap shoes inside the RCA.  If you are an outage contractor, they appreciate it if you trash them at the end of the outage.  House guys sometimes even get a locker in there.

Do they require the workers to smear the RCA shoes before changing or are they storing potentially contaminated shoes in the change area? How often do the floors get surveyed? How do they get around allowing people to walk around on potentially contaminated floors then put clean shoes over their potentially contaminated socks and shield the contamination from the PCM? Seams they released people without a full external survey.Then again when you allow people to do a whole body frisk with a pancake probe ludlum 44-9 they only do about 25% anyway.

[Already Gone]

Frank V. was my tour guide.  I was a wide-eyed squid, but I just figured that the seal table was supposed to spray like a mall fountain when they flooded the cavity.

The max contam is usually around 500ccpm.  It must be fixed - anything duct tape won't remove is fixed.

They don't walk around in their socks.  They get the boots along with any PC's they need, change the boots and don the PC's, then put their outside boots in the locker.  When they come back out of the CA, they change the boots back and put the RCA boots on the shelf.  RP smears the floors and shelves periodically and spot checks boots.  Workers are always required to frisk shoes ASAP after crossing SOP's, so they are looking for any increase in count levels.  (A quick reality check here: NOBODY EVER does this frisk anyway - which is why people show up at access with crapped-up boots in the first place.) If the boots are gone from the shelf, it means RP tossed them out.

You ought to see Boot Decon at Nine Mile.  It has numbered cubbies, replacement sneakers for guys who just lost their boots, decon stuff, and a frisker (I'm not sure about the frisker).  But they don't decon boots at access.  They send you to boot decon, where you try to get your own boots clean.  If it is too fixed to come out, you leave the boots in a cubby, take some sneakers to wear outside, and return the sneakers the next day.  If the level was too high after you abandoned decon efforts, you just trash the old boots.

Not everybody changes into their RCA boots every time.  Some guys only do it if they are doing a wet job or are going into the drywell.

You think that's complicated?  You'd love Canada.  Every worker has to have a separate pair (the issued ones are yellow, but you can buy a pair and paint them yellow) for the RCA.  Of course there is the changing underwear and showering thing to deal with too.

[Bonds 25]

So kinda like our RCA glove use, but boots....sounds good I guess...along as there is some kinda daily surveys being performed on the boots before they put them away for the day...pirates fan huh...nice stadium PNC park...top 3 ive been to..while since Im a giants fan...look up Bonds 2002 plyoff stats....best ever

[biloxoi blues]

Then I guess Ted Williams wasnt a great player either, if you look at his playoff avg. and many consider him the "greastest" hitter of all time.  Of course if he had radioactive shoes he would of done a lot better.

[SloGlo]

They don't walk around in their socks.  They get the boots along with any PC's they need, change the boots and don the PC's, then put their outside boots in the locker.  When they come back out of the CA, they change the boots back and put the RCA boots on the shelf.  RP smears the floors and shelves periodically and spot checks boots.  Workers are always required to frisk shoes ASAP after crossing SOP's, so they are looking for any increase in count levels.  (A quick reality check here: NOBODY EVER does this frisk anyway - which is why people show up at access with crapped-up boots in the first place.) If the boots are gone from the shelf, it means RP tossed them out.

sew.... yinz got peepul going thru yer p.c.m. with clean shielding on there feat?  street shoes on bee four ya dew da p.c.m.?  betcha dat helps keep yer personnel contamination reports to a minimum.

[Already Gone]

That is the whole point, isn't it?  It's all a numbers game.

[Rennhack]

So kinda like our RCA glove use, but boots....sounds good I guess...along as there is some kinda daily surveys being performed on the boots before they put them away for the day...pirates fan huh...nice stadium PNC park...top 3 ive been to..while since Im a giants fan...look up Bonds 2002 plyoff stats....best ever

Sports talk goes in the Gold Member area.  Please keep it to a minimum in the open forum.

[nowhereman]

aahhhh.....nothing like the sight of OC  and the stack firmly planted in the rear view mirror.....like this matter needs another posting, but here goes anyway....

"it was the best of times, it was the worst of times" just another typical outage for OC.....many people lamented (more house than contractor) that they thought management would of thrown  money/people at this project to make it a better outage,  considering the license renewal process is still ongoing.....but that was not the case.....no time allotted for  preoutage preps, no time for prefabbing parts/equipment in the maintenance shop(makes for a chaotic first week).......an interesting sidebar is that people complained of rp management shaving days off of the outage report dates, but, then people could not get out of there fast enough.....just another typical outage for OC..

One interesting observation tho...is that I believe the "heat" is being applied to maintenance supv. arse's, because this is the first outage (out of too many) I have been at, where I have had full contact arguments with maint.  (over hp related matters) in front of NOS (while the NOS guy is scratching his arse)....  that and the fact that in the checkout process(leaving site) there is no mention of how to contact the ECP people.......   So, it is readily apparent that this site never really embraced a concept of SCWE.    (safety conscience work environment)     

and as far as  the whining OCC people, lets break out our form 4's and see who has a better leg to stand on....

it was a "typical" outage for OC, I have been to worse, but certainly have been to better...