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Trackman

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Maintenance vs. Operations
« on: Nov 15, 2008, 12:33 »
So I am a Nuke ET1 getting out after 6 years in January.  I'm interviewing for a Sr I&C Tech position next week.

My question is what are the pros and cons of the Maintenance and Operations sides of the house.  Obviously, Ops pays more, but what else should I look at to decide between the two paths?  Also, is it possible to switch from one to the other once you have established yourself in the civilian industry?  Are there any limits to promotions and future opportunities in either path?  Thanks for the help.

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #1 on: Nov 15, 2008, 09:16 »
So I am a Nuke ET1 getting out after 6 years in January.  I'm interviewing for a Sr I&C Tech position next week.

My question is what are the pros and cons of the Maintenance and Operations sides of the house.  Obviously, Ops pays more, but what else should I look at to decide between the two paths?  Also, is it possible to switch from one to the other once you have established yourself in the civilian industry?  Are there any limits to promotions and future opportunities in either path?  Thanks for the help.

I&C gets more OT, and usually less shift work. I&C usually makes more because of the OT here.
Many plants are having a harder time staffing I&C than Ops. You'll be able to put in for Ops later, but if I&C is short of staff, they may not let you go Ops.
If you are happy doing work, and then going home....I&C may be better.
If you have a need to run things....Ops may be a better path.
If you are coming to my plant, we need good I&C.....we're fat on Operators. Harder to train good I&C than Operators.
I&C can also go to training or management, but Ops leads to top management (competition is fierce though...)
Good luck, can't lose either way... ;)
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Fermi2

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #2 on: Nov 16, 2008, 10:30 »
Actually not true. In most plants in the country Ops is getting a lot more OT than anyone else. In the two plants I have worked at I+C does not work a large amount of OT.

Ops positions are far harder to staff and so far most of the plants in the country are getting very short on Operators.

Mike

Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #3 on: Nov 16, 2008, 04:31 »
I concur with Broad. I was hired in with a class of 20 NLOs. 1 was let go and 1 quit. Since we came to shift, 4 senior Operators have left, a few are probably leaving, and 6 got selected for ILT.

Basically the Dept is breaking even in manning. Before we came on shift the Operators were grumbling about future OT going down, but now, its like they really never hired 20 new operators, more like 6-8, and that barely allows shifts to be self relieving.

Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #4 on: Nov 17, 2008, 09:59 »
Thanks everyone for the help.

I think I'm going to see how my interview goes on Wednesday.  I think I am leaning to the I&C side of things because it seems more interesting to me.  In the navy, I enjoyed standing at sea watches in the box, but I couldn't stand SRO in port.  Somehow it seems that a commercial plant operating at power would be about as exciting as SRO in the Navy.  Maintenance is a little more interesting and engaging.

Now, how are the Navy vs commercial power comparisons?  Obviously there is no more field day, but is there still tons of continued training and other BS?

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #5 on: Nov 17, 2008, 11:05 »
Thanks everyone for the help.

I think I'm going to see how my interview goes on Wednesday.  I think I am leaning to the I&C side of things because it seems more interesting to me.  In the navy, I enjoyed standing at sea watches in the box, but I couldn't stand SRO in port.  Somehow it seems that a commercial plant operating at power would be about as exciting as SRO in the Navy.  Maintenance is a little more interesting and engaging.

Now, how are the Navy vs commercial power comparisons?  Obviously there is no more field day, but is there still tons of continued training and other BS?

Plenty of continuing training. About 2-3 wks / yr.
I&C spends a lot of time on surveillance (making sure stuff still works right) and troubleshooting (fixing what they identified as not working right)
Many plants have a "plant cleanup day" a couple of times a year...but it's pretty benign.
A commercial plant at power is pretty much steady state. Change is bad.... ;)

Good luck on your interview. Ops will still be an option in the future if you want it.   :)
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Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #6 on: Nov 17, 2008, 03:38 »
Thanks everyone for the help.

I think I'm going to see how my interview goes on Wednesday.  I think I am leaning to the I&C side of things because it seems more interesting to me.  In the navy, I enjoyed standing at sea watches in the box, but I couldn't stand SRO in port.  Somehow it seems that a commercial plant operating at power would be about as exciting as SRO in the Navy.  Maintenance is a little more interesting and engaging.

Now, how are the Navy vs commercial power comparisons?  Obviously there is no more field day, but is there still tons of continued training and other BS?

Navy OPs and Commericial OPs are Apples and Oranges. I wouldn't make any assumptions just yet about comparing Maneuvering  to the Control Room. But I will leave the rest for Broadzilla to school you on what you have no clue on.... ;)

Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #7 on: Nov 18, 2008, 10:13 »
Navy OPs and Commericial OPs are Apples and Oranges. I wouldn't make any assumptions just yet about comparing Maneuvering  to the Control Room. But I will leave the rest for Broadzilla to school you on what you have no clue on.... ;)
Haha, thanks.  I'll be the first to admit that I don't know squat about commercial nuclear power.  That is part of the reason I'm a little apprehensive.  I'm getting out because I don't like the navy, and $75k to $90k isn't worth staying in for me.  I enjoy the nuke power side of things, and I hope that commercial power has more of what I like, and less of the stuff that drives me nuts about the navy.

Ok, one more question, and I think I'll be good for a while.  Is a suit appropriate to wear to an interview at the Sr I&C Tech level, or is that considered over-dressing?

Again, thanks everyone for the help.  This has been very informative, and a little entertaining too.  8)
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2008, 10:13 by Trackman »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #8 on: Nov 18, 2008, 10:29 »
Haha, thanks.  I'll be the first to admit that I don't know squat about commercial nuclear power.  That is part of the reason I'm a little apprehensive.  I'm getting out because I don't like the navy, and $75k to $90k isn't worth staying in for me.  I enjoy the nuke power side of things, and I hope that commercial power has more of what I like, and less of the stuff that drives me nuts about the navy.

Ok, one more question, and I think I'll be good for a while.  Is a suit appropriate to wear to an interview at the Sr I&C Tech level, or is that considered overdressing?

Again, thanks everyone for the help.  This has been very informative, and a little entertaining too.  8)

Like someone mentioned, standing watch in the control room of a commercial nuke is in no way similar to standing SRO on a boat. Although you don't want excitement as far as the plant goes, there is always something going on and plenty to do. Often, your 12 hour shift won't be enough time to get it done. As far as nuclear is concerned, there is always the same BS. There is always a ton of paperwork, there is always someone looking over your shoulder, there is always training and there are always exams. So in that respect, it is the same except you are held to a much higher standard than in the Navy and you cannot skate your way through on minimum knowledge. It is hard work, but the pay, benefits and lack of silliness is all worth it. And by lack of silliness I mean people making a big deal out of saying "10K" instead of "evaporator," someone telling you not to put your hands in your pockets even if it is 20 degrees out, etc etc etc ad infinitum. I think these are the types of things you mean that you don't like about the Navy. Yes, that military type silliness is gone. But, you get a whole new set of silliness to replace it. Things like having to wear a 2 minute drill card, having to carry around a pocket safety manual, leadership alignment meetings and a million other silly management catch phrases that you have to do. Oh, and everyone is smart and everyone knows it. I have never encountered a higher concentration of gigantic egos in my life. What is cool about it though, is that everyone is constantly challenging each other which tends to make one better at what they do. You will not be immune to any of this in I&C.

As for a suit, I don't think you can really overdress, but then again, I don't do interviews. I can tell you that I wore a nice shirt, tie and khaki pants to my SRO interview. I think you would be fine with something similar, or a suit. Good luck and keep us posted!

Justin

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #9 on: Nov 19, 2008, 07:27 »
I have my own question to add about ops vs. maintenance.

Which has more job security?

I tend to think the power industry will not be affected as much by the recession than other industrys will be but is there a difference between the two.

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #10 on: Nov 19, 2008, 07:47 »
It's a lot harder to hire Bechtel or Shaw to do Ops than it is to hire them to do Maintenance.  However, job security in both is still way better than in most other industries. 

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #11 on: Nov 19, 2008, 09:07 »
I have my own question to add about ops vs. maintenance.

Which has more job security?

I tend to think the power industry will not be affected as much by the recession than other industrys will be but is there a difference between the two.

I have to agree with the above poster. There never seems to be enough maintenance techs at my plant, and they are always needed for something. There is so much testing and surveillance's and plain old upkeep to be done that I can comfortably say that if you are house employee at a nuke, your job security is almost guaranteed. Of course, nothing is certain, but I have asked this very question at my plant and none of the old timers can remember at time when anyone was laid off because of hard times. Like you said, this industry is more immune to blips in the economy than others simply because people always have to turn on the lights and heat the house.

Justin
« Last Edit: Nov 19, 2008, 09:08 by JustinHEMI »

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #12 on: Nov 21, 2008, 07:47 »
Well, when the end comes (containment removed and fuel in dry fuel casks) there will be an operator, an RP and a security officer.  But an operator can move from plant to plant much more easily.

Do you really think an operator can move that easily? Regardless of experience or "rank", they have to completely requalify which can be up to 18 months or so.

I figure a maintenance tech only has to be able to work a piece of equipment vs. have an understanding of a system. This is by no means a slight against maint., but once a system is tagged and de-energized, a pump is a pump and a valve is a valve regardless of the system or plant it is in.

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #13 on: Nov 21, 2008, 10:43 »
Do you really think an operator can move that easily? Regardless of experience or "rank", they have to completely requalify which can be up to 18 months or so.

I figure a maintenance tech only has to be able to work a piece of equipment vs. have an understanding of a system. This is by no means a slight against maint., but once a system is tagged and de-energized, a pump is a pump and a valve is a valve regardless of the system or plant it is in.

But unless that maintenance tech is moving to another plant in the same system (Entergy, Exelon, etc..) and their quals are transferable also they still have to go through the same training, OJT, TPE process at their new plant just as an operator would.  True enough that a valve is a valve, and so on but if the quals don't transfer their process starts over just as a operators would. 

By the same token, if either an operator or maintenance tech has already qualified at one plant that same process is not going to be as difficult the second time.  There will be some adapting to the new plant but if someone has already been through the process they have a head start on anyone who is going through it the first time.
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Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #14 on: Nov 22, 2008, 01:48 »
Well, I took the MASS test on Wednesday, and immediately had my interview.  Since it was the first interview I've ever done, I was visibly nervous.  It was a scenario based interview, where they asked me for specific situations where I solved certain problems.  I was a little worried that my nervousness was going to hurt me, but I got a call from my interviewer yesterday saying that I passed the MASS, and expect an official offer soon.  8)

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #15 on: Nov 22, 2008, 06:28 »
Congrats! Keep us posted.

Justin

Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #16 on: Dec 19, 2008, 09:22 »
Well, it took a little longer than I expected, but I got the job offer yesterday.  I'm pretty excited, because in all honesty, I was putting all my eggs in this one basket, and I'm down to just over a month until I get out.  Again, thanks everyone for the help, and I look forward to posting here again in the future.

PapaBear765

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #17 on: Dec 19, 2008, 04:43 »
Navy OPs and Commericial OPs are Apples and Oranges. I wouldn't make any assumptions just yet about comparing Maneuvering  to the Control Room. But I will leave the rest for Broadzilla to school you on what you have no clue on.... ;)

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,5434.0.html

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #18 on: Dec 20, 2008, 12:24 »
Well, when the end comes (containment removed and fuel in dry fuel casks) there will be an operator, an RP and a security officer.  But an operator can move from plant to plant much more easily.

Actually, at Trojan, they trained security on all job functions...so no operator or RP...   :/
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2008, 07:57 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline gsmagnum

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #19 on: Jan 03, 2009, 12:28 »
Congratulations on the new job.
I think you will like I&C.
The best thing is that if you get sick of the Nuke world, you should be able to move to either a coal or gas plant with a whole bunch less hassle. I&C is a pretty universal trade.

Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #20 on: Jan 29, 2009, 05:34 »
Well, I finally started my job yesterday.  So far, aside from the death by computer based indoc training, everything is going well.  I am getting lucky because I am moving right into a training class on Monday.  From what I'm hearing, lots of the other new I&C techs have been waiting up to a year to get this class.  Hopefully everything goes well.  Again, thanks to everyone for all the help along the way.

Scott

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #21 on: Jan 29, 2009, 10:23 »
Very nice! Congratulations!

If you hate death by computer training, wait till you get to death by power point (you probably been through that) but it gets worse...

death by word document!

Right now in my license class, we are between phases (systems and simulator/ojt) and are doing admin training. So for 8 hour/day right now, we have someone read procedures to us.  >:( :'( :D

NukeNub

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #22 on: Jan 29, 2009, 10:35 »
In todays lecture I am going to read to you from OP-AA-WAKA-WAKA-123...

Trackman

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #23 on: Jan 30, 2009, 12:07 »
In todays lecture I am going to read to you from OP-AA-WAKA-WAKA-123...
I understand you are going to read to me from OP-AA-WAKA-WAKA-123...

(I learned about "human performance tools" today, can you tell?)  :P

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Maintenance vs. Operations
« Reply #24 on: Jan 30, 2009, 09:32 »
Oh the fun!

Justin

 


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