How to prepare for Navy NPS

[Adidas2806]

I have been spending alot of time on this website reading all the info everyone has to share, but this is my first post.
     I just enlisted in the navy nuclear power program 2 weeks ago. I honestly had no idea and never planned going into this field, but I got a 99 on the ASVAB and this is what they threw at me. I suppose I want to challenge myself, but this is still very scary for me. I know that this is going to be an extremely hard and vigourous program, but is there anything I can do while I am in the Delayed Entry Program to help prepare me for this? I figure the more I know before I go into this the better. I am taking high school Physics right now as well as Calculus, but how much of High School Physics will I really be using?
     I suppose I dont want to fall into this and not know what to do, and any info you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated!!!
Sean

[20 Years Gone]

    Well, where you go from here depends a bit on where you are... taking physics and calculus is good, but the vast, VAST majority of math you'll use is trig and below.  And, it's really not so much the math, but how you do the math.  For example, I have a friend who just came to teach math at Nuclear Field A school, and although he got all the correct answers on his first math practice exam, he still failed the exam.  How, I hear you ask?  Isn't math about getting the right answers?  Well, no, not while taking NPS math.... Math is about following directions, procedures, and doing it OUR way. 
   That's what bootcamp is also about... I'll bet you thought you knew how to fold your underwear, huh?  You probably even thought you knew how to make your bed... Again, it's attention to detail, and doing it the NAVY way.  So, knowing lots of math and physics will help you, but only to a point.
   Now, if I was just getting started...
   Do you know what rate you're going to be? You have a choice of three... Machinist Mate, Electricians mate, and Electronics Technician.  I'm an ET, and it's been my deal for 20 years, but at NPS, it won't make much difference what rate you are, as the core curriculum is pretty much the same.  There are a couple books you can get online... Ebay, etc..
   1st is the Blue Jackets manual.  This will be your boot camp bible, and the more you learn about it ahead of time, the better prepared you'll be, and you'll get more from the bootcamp lectures. 
   2nd... Get a basic heat transfer and fluid flow book, wither on line or at a library, just so you can learn some terms, etc...
   Also, Nuclear Physics by Enrico Fermi... a good text.  Keep in mind that the entire curriculum at NPS is classified, so you won't be able to bring notes home to your barracks to study...
   There are auctions on Ebay which proclaim to have the entire NPS curriculum, including reactor principles, heat Transfer & fluid Flow, chemistry, materials, etc etc, in an unclassified form.  I've never seen the actual text of these CD books, but if you want, you can get one...
   Hope this helps...  It's a hard school, and requires MUCH hard work, but I think it's worth it... You wont find too many guys who paid the price to graduate from the school saying it wasn't worth it.

   Best of luck
 

[Austria]

Sean:
First of all, good luck and congratulations! As an ex-Navy Nuke, I may be biased, but you've chosen a terrific program that will open up many opportunities for you.

I never thought I would end up in the Navy Nuke program either when I enlisted years ago...but hey, anything can happen.

What ever math and physics you are studying will help. You'll use everything you've learned and then some. And what you don't know, they'll teach you. Just be prepared to work, work, and work some more.

Starting with boot camp, pay ATTENTION TO DETAIL. Most of what they do, and tell you to do is for a reason even though it will probably seem like brainwashing BS at the time. But honest, everything you do right down to folding your clothes teaches you something you'll need later on.

Once you get to Nuke School be prepared to give much of your free time up to studying. It is a tough program that demands the best from everyone and the better you are the more they expect.

Do save some free time to relax and clear your head. Keep your own perspective and when you need help, ask for it. And when your buddies need help, help them out.

And always, always think ahead. Whether you stay in or get out after six, you will find opportunities you don't even know exist yet.

Best of luck to you,

Steve McDermott
Class 8103
NPTU S8G
USS Enterprise (CVN 65) '82 - '86

[moke]

Mahalo to Austria and 20 years for providing some awesome advice.

When I left Hawaii as a 20 year old rental technician all I was told by Charlie Cachugian was: Do you know how to operate a frisker? Yes. Do you know who to write up a survey? Yes. Well, get your butt out there and kick some ass!

Really encouraging?

Thank you guys. It is this kind of input that we need because, in many cases, its not about us but rather our Youth!

To Adidas2806,

You got some fine advice and hope that you conitnue to probe and unlock those mysteries within the mind.

Your test score tell me that you are a great thinker. Many, yet not all of my Navy Nuke friends are talented and the one thing that they all have in common is their ability to solve problems!

I my field, we are expected to solve problems and much of what the Navy expects from you. Many attend college yet they gotta be told what to do! Our Navy needs those who can solve problems and implement what you learned in the classroom.

Admiral Rickover knew that he could not pass nuke school on his own and got other classmates to do his homework. He did what he had to do to get by! A strong mind is a great thing yet one must be self motivated to make use of it.

I hope that you do the best job you can do and maintain focus. Our country needs your service and especially in our Nuclear Programs that remain as the best in the world! Run silent-Run Deep!

Goodluck!

Moke

[moodusjack]

Moke, some comments about your statement "Admiral Rickover knew that he could not pass nuke school on his own and got other classmates to do his homework. "

According to one biography, Hymie's main holdback was English.  His main struggle was at the Naval academy.  He was a brilliant engineer and was described as a "humorless grind" upon graduation from the academy.  Rickover sponsered and held virtual control over the naval nuke program, including training.  There is no record of him attending.  He was a fanatic about a systematic approach to training that taught people how to thing.

Enough about Hymie...twas a formality.  Your helpful suggestions and support to help this kid prepare for the program make the real point and do you justice. 

[Roll Tide]

Adidas,
Congratulations on making an excellent career choice. I graduated from high school, and reported to Boot Camp 3 weeks later. I thank God that I learned enough to make a living after getting out!

Your "A" school, where you learn your rating (ET, MM, or EM) shouldn't be overlooked. The info of "A" school is the heart of advancement examinations, which determines how soon you get a pay raise. It sounds like you have the needed academic classes, and continue to do well in those (chemistry would be nice also.) "A" school is more challenging for those who went through the program after me, and they expect you to excel (not just pass!)

My additional recommendation for study before going active duty is Principles of Naval Engineering. Tell your Recruiter, and he will be in awe of your desire to prepare. A Recruiter will be happy to pick up titles such as this, as would your local Naval Reserve unit.

Naval Engineering will discuss considerations regarding steam propulsion and vital auxiliaries, which will be very valuable as EM or MM (ET isn't a true engineering rating, so they get advancement based on knowledge of radar, navigation, and other trivial pursuit categories - all bets are off for an ET career.)

One more thing, thanks for making the decision to serve our country. Please get as much education and training as possible while you are in so you can decide at the end of your enlistment if you should stay in or go to the civilian workforce. You have my respect either way.

Finally, don't try to keep a girlfriend back home. If you decide to date the same girl again after you are assigned to your ship / sub, that's a great idea. I don't know how a long distance relationship would work for you at boot camp, "A" school, NPS, and NPTU (prototype) but I expect it would be additional stress you could do without. Let's just say my experience was not a good one, and I would like you to do better.

MM1(SS)
NPS 8502

[20 Years Gone]

Your "A" school, where you learn your rating (ET, MM, or EM) shouldn't be overlooked. The info of "A" school is the heart of advancement examinations, which determines how soon you get a pay raise. It sounds like you have the needed academic classes, and continue to do well in those (chemistry would be nice also.) "A" school is more challenging for those who went through the program after me, and they expect you to excel (not just pass!)

Roll Tide,
   For about the last 3 or 4 years, the old rating exams which are the same as the conventionals took are gone.  The exams for advancement are now nuclear based.  However, you're right that a major education is to be had at NFAS!!  Unfortunately, there are many ETs/EMs who dump all knowledge gained there, and have zero troubleshooting ability when they get to the fleet.     
   Adidas, when they give you the opportunity to retain your notes (they'll send them to your follow-on command) jump on it, as they'[ll be very valuble later on.

[Roll Tide]

Roll Tide,
   For about the last 3 or 4 years, the old rating exams which are the same as the conventionals took are gone.  The exams for advancement are now nuclear based. 

If you've been gone 20 years, how do you know all of this? 
I got out in 1995, and my info is a little more current than many of our posters, but I welcome your input from today. They separated the advancement slots eons ago, but the whole time I was in it was still the same rating exams. The best EWS qualified ET2 I ever knew had to be command advanced to ET1! Glad they finally fixed that.

Adidas, in response to the original post, let me assure you the principles of physics will be at the heart of your training. Do some surfing on the net (probably how you found us) and check out some descriptions of commercial nuclear plants for info on how nuclear power works. Tom Clancy wrote "Red October", which has excellent descriptions of nuclear plant response to change in demanded speed.

[Adidas2806]

wow. Thanks to all of you for your advice and input. it is greatly appreciated.
     I have been doing as much research about all of this that i can, and im afraid that it is only scaring me even more!lol, i knwo that ill be able to handle it, i know that, but man it is still intimidating.just a few other concerns that i have if you all dont mind helping me out some more!!!!!
     I took chemistry my sophmore year of highschool, and the first semester i got a C average, but it was mostly because of my teacher, who did not try to help out any of the students and i didnt understand it. mysecond semester i got a diffrent teacher that was awesome and helped me undertsand so much. got an A in her class.
     my recuiter has told me that the teachers at nuke school will do everything to help us understand the physics and everything behind this, but do they really? i just hope that they dont get annoyed or anything when we ask for extra help.
     also, which one is typically the best rate to go for? does one of them primarily get the scud work that no one wants?
and Roll Tide:: i have never read "Red October" but i will probably be checking it out tomrrow! i think im about to have an annurism from looking all this stuff up and if i can relax while learning it im all for it!
Sean
     

[Nuclear NASCAR]

If you've been gone 20 years, how do you know all of this? 
I

I'm taking a shot in the dark but from his previous posts I believe 20 years gone refers to the last 20 years he's spent in the Navy as he's getting out soon. 

[Flooznie]

Grats on making a good decision.  I, just like 20 years gone, am an ET, and I qualified RO and SRO on the USS Santa Fe.  Looking back, would I have done it all over again?  Hell yes. 

Few tips, if any to get ready.  Having a good physics and math base is fine and dandy, but as posted earlier there is NAVY math, and NAVY physics, and NAVY reactor principles.  While the Navy's way may be similiar to other ways you have heard in the past, you will fail every single test you take unless you do it THEIR way every time.  Your final answer on the exams is only 1 pt of the final score.  Every single exam you will take throughout the Nuclear Pipeline is going to be essay.  True or False, fill in the blank, multiple guess (choice) DO NOT EXIST in the nuclear Navy.  So get good at memorizing, because you have to have "key words and tricky phrases" on paper.  and you will hear this over and over and over and over.  When you take tests in this school, don't take them front to back.  Answer the questions you know the answers to first, and for the problems, fill in the equations/tables theorms/etc that you know you will have to use in each problem then get back to them later.  The reason for this is, if you run out of time (which is very likely), you will still get most of the credit for each of the test questions.  In NFAS, showing the math equation is 4 out of the 5 points needed to pass the question on the exam.   Knowing this will save your ass.    Some other tips.  When you go through the school, there are objectives that are given in the material that you need to know by the end of the lesson.  There is a big ass book on all these topical learning objectives.  Write the Letter off the side of the objectives while you are notetaking, and highlight the material.  ONLY this is what you can be tested on.  Know what to filter out and what to focus on.  Also, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER cookbook your homework.  You will have lots of homework to do every night.  Don't just look up the answer in your notes, and write it down.  Take your homework like a quiz and write down as much as you retained before you have to refer to your notes.  As an ET, I always believed there is a RAM chip in your hand, and when you write stuff down, you remember it.  This is saying something, since you will write like you have never written before.  Also, remember, that the challenge doesn't stop once you complete training.  You will still have to study your but off on the boat to qualify your watchstations, and it looks bad on your part doing your Dept Head interview with no knowledge.  Study just as hard on the boat as you do in school, and you will never go wrong.  You need to be HEAVY on the plant.  There is nothing worse than someone whos been on board 2 years and doesn't know jack or isn't qualified.   Give 200% at all times, be your best, for yourself firstmost. 

ET1 (SS)
NPS class 9802

[Roll Tide]

     I took chemistry my sophmore year of highschool, and the first semester i got a C average, but it was mostly because of my teacher, who did not try to help out any of the students and i didnt understand it. mysecond semester i got a diffrent teacher that was awesome and helped me undertsand so much. got an A in her class.
     my recuiter has told me that the teachers at nuke school will do everything to help us understand the physics and everything behind this, but do they really? i just hope that they dont get annoyed or anything when we ask for extra help.
.....
     also, which one is typically the best rate to go for? does one of them primarily get the scud work that no one wants?
Sean   

4 years after NPS, I ran into my old MTMO (mechanical theory for mechanical operators or MM's) instructor on the pier as we were going to our respective submarines. We talked about the class, and I appreciated his insight. I never spent a day in his class that felt wasted, it was like every day was an essential learning assignment.

How is this different from school? How many of your teachers will you be working with side-by-side in the future? The enlisted NPS instructors have a vested interest in your ability to perform well. The officers are like your high school teachers: some are excellent, others pull a paycheck.

An additional resource is your section advisor. He will be able to help you out in any area during the additional hours you study after classes. During normal study hours, there are advisors available. Since everyone studies in the building (not in the barracks), it is easy to get good study groups going.

Best rate? We could start another thread just for that topic. I was a MM, which I personally believe is the best choice. Not only does it prepare you for a commercial nuclear power career well, it also lets you compete for a supplementary specialty, with the training immediately after NPTU: nuke welder or Engineering Laboratory Technician (ELT). Many on this site are Radiological Controls Technicians (RCT), and got their start after ELT in the Navy.

I can tell you other good things about the other ratings, but I would choose nuke welder as a MM to have the most career opportunities when I got out.

[20 Years Gone]

   Yes indeed, 20 years gone refers to the fact that the last 20 years have slipped away, and it seems like yesterday that I was reporting into Great Lakes, scared and excited, wondering what would happen next.  But, I have learned that time and mass are related, because not only have the last 20 years seemed to coalesced into 60 lbs on me, but whenever I try to exercise to lose it, time seems to slow down. Hmmmmm.
   I'm currently at NPS, and let me tell you, the focus has changed somewhat over the last 20 years.  Let me tell you, adidas... When I first came in, we went to ET 'A', EM 'A', or MM 'A' school, and we were in class with non-nukes.  The questions on exams were all multiple choice, and school was a breeze.  However, if you didn't graduate in the top two thirds of your class, you didn't go on to NPS, but instead, they just made you a conventional (non-nuclear) ET, EM, or MM.  Sometimes, you would have over two thirds of the class loaded with nukes, and so SOMEONE would be bound to lose their future.  NPS was known to be a huge filter, and attrition from beginning to end of the nuclear training pipeline was around 50%, and this was a source of pride for those who made it through.  They started teaching NFAS (Nuclear Field A School) instead of sending us to be mixed with conventionals for A school, and all that multiple choice stuff was gone gone gone.  Everything is essay.  Then, one day in 1997, about a year before NPS graduated its last class from Orlando (we're in Charleston, now) the new headman in Naval Reactors, Admiral 'Skip' Bowman, came to call on us, and we had a meeting out in the quad in the afternoon, with all staff attending.  It was known as the meeting on the grassy knoll.  Skip laid down the law... Nuclear Power as he saw it was heading into a death spiral... The Navy couldn't recruit enough sailors for the program, and we were dropping large amounts in the training pipeline, so the ships at sea were undermanned.  This cause life at sea to be worse then it had to be, causing first and second term sailors to get out, and get the lucrative jobs available in civilian industry.  Therefore, we had to do a better job in graduation of the sailors that the recruiters provided to us.  So, we had lots of boards and committees to try and figure out what was to be done... And let me tell you, it's hard to pass this school, but it's also hard to fail, as well.  The instructers always tried hard, but now, you have to justify to everyone up the chain of command why a student is failing... Failing two subjects?  Well, that's ok, retain the student and let him/her recover.  Failed the comprehensive exam?  Take another in a week.  Fail that one?  Well, have an academic board, and if you can pass that, on you go to prototype.  So, adidas, the moral to all this is... Be prepared, get the most you can out of your education, but be confident!! You are working with a safety net... We all realize you are the future of our program, and we'll do our utmost to ensure you get the knowledge and whatever help you need to succeed.
   Now so far as being a nuclear welder... One of my last sea spots was AQAO onboard Enterprise.  Unfortunately, for Adidas, and the nuclear navy, we don't send nukes to be welders anymore.  We had one nuclear certified welder onboard (he belonged to R-div) and no more coming.  If you need a job done at that level, then civilians will do it.  It bothers me... The trend I see is ETs not being able to troubleshoot to the component level, and mechanics continually sending out valve maintenance/repairs and any nuclear work to the shipyard to perform.
   It depends on what you like, Adidas... Do you like circuitry (ET)?  Do you like getting under the hood of a car? (MM)  Do you like just getting paid? (EM) Just kidding!!!   Theres an old saying that ETs get paid for what they know, MMs get paid for what they do, and EMs just get paid!!   But what matters in follow on industry, it seems to me, is getting qualified at least PPWS, get you college done if possible, and learn to lead people in difficult situations.
   OK, enough rambling.. Be confident.  You sound like your miles ahead of the completion already.  You wouldn't believe how many people come into the program and dont do any research at all.  Kudos to you!!

[JEBako]

Adidas,

From your high school curriculum, I'm going to guess that you are in New York State.

Don't worry so much. I remember taking similar classes in high school. I did badly in chemistry and hated it. Believe it or not, I became an ELT. NPS taught many subjects that you would see in the first two years of college engineering. The difference is that you learn using simpler mathematics (no Calculus) and plenty of practical examples (which is why the course and your homework, notes are all classified... the examples are very practical). As stated before, your enlisted instructors are excellent and highly motivated, some of the officers are worthless (my radchem instructor was)

Some of the other posts give excellent input on your available ratings choices.  I think the best was given by 20 years gone. It is your future, you have to like what you do or you will have a hard time going to work every day and spend your time trying to get out of the business.

As far as "scut" work goes, everyone on board works a long and hard day. Nuclear powered naval vessels are usually at sea longer and more often than their conventionally powered cousins. The better you are at doing the job, the faster you get it done and the less likely to have to repeat it prematurely.

The nuclear field is one of the few that allow you to earn a living without a degree, but get one anyway.

MM1(SS)
Class 7703
USS Hunley
USS Silversides

[et3soandso]

I figured I had to post a reply.  After all, I'm a nuke currently enrolled in the pipeline.  I'm at the Charleston Prototype site.
For the new recruit, I can't think of any real preparation.  In "A" school, they use a "play" version of classification, called NOFORN.  It's not a big deal.
Most people arrive at NNPTC with a clearance pending, but get their approval mid-school.  Your main concern should be clearing up any issues that could slow down your security clearance..  Some people are stuck between "A" school and NPS for months at a time.  I know a handful of guys that had to wait longer than a year.
YOU DO NOT WANT TO WASTE TIME AT NNPTC.  While there, you have to live in some decent barracks, but put up with some very big restrictions.  No civilians on base.  No girls in your rooms. 
So clear up ANY possible issues.  Credit, speeding tickets, you name it.  Dual Citizenship?  Give it up!
The biggest thing I can tell you about NNPTC is that you learn to cram, big time.
If you like getting your hands dirty, go MM.  If you like a more academic job with less work and more AC... go ET.  I did. 
Don't go EM.  I don't know why any one does.  Heh!  Seems all I hear about is them cleaning up DC Machinery.
NPS will be a challenge, but if you're dedicated, you'll pull through.  It's all worth it when you get to Prototype.  The biggest problem I had with NNPTC was the lack of "Hands On" instruction. 
When I went down the ladderwell of my Moored Training Ship, I was amazed.  It's all uphill from here, but I'm looking forward to it.  Congrats on going nuke!  You made a great choice.  Good luck and I'll see you in Charleston.

[RAMinator]

I've found that NPS and the pipeline are designed to scare you. They're not scary at all. One little tip that helped me from going insane is that I just stopped caring after A school.. the caring was making me go nuts. The less you actually "care" about it, the better you generally will do. Don't get worked up, and don't over-work yourself. Take it easy and enjoy charleston, but remember there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

MM2
ELT
NPS 0202

[Adidas2806]

Thank you all again for your help! this was my first time posting here, and i am truly grateful for all your insight and understanding!From what i have gathered, i think i am going to go ET. It sounds like the more challenging of the three, so i figure that if i am going to push myself through this challenging of a program, i might as well take the hardest course! itll help keep me on my toes anyway.
     You have to study at the school? that is gonna suck not being able to stuidy in my dorm room(which by the way i have heard are better than other accomodations at other A schools - did i hear that correcctly?) i mean, i knew the stuff that i study will be important, but i didnt think it was that top-secret. i mean, am i going to be studying info that the average civilian nuke worker doesnt know?
     Also, i have yet to decide whether or not i want to go sub or aircraft carrier. as of right now it is definetly carrier, ive heard too many horror stories of being on subs. has anyone here worked on a sub? the only way that i will do it is if i become an officer, for i know that they have better living conditions.
     that also brings up another subject, is it hard to get into OTS through the nuke program? will i have to take extra classes and get my degree first before i become an officer or do they readily take nuke students to OTS w/o completring their degree?
     Thanks again for all your help and info.
Sean

[JCwhitney]

I'm a former Navy Nuc- class 9101.  Regardless of your ASVAB score, be prepared to study hard and you won't have ANY problems at all.  By the way, I don't think you get to chose your rating (ET, EM, MM).  Most people get their first choice but many do not.

[RAMinator]

Sub or Carrier usually depends on whether you like a big city or a small town. On a Sub, you know everybody, and it's a pretty close knit group, on a carrier, there's just so many people that you usually will venture outside of your set group. Big city or small town, up to you.

Oh yeah, and all studying must be done in the school, although after hours, you can study in Civvies and not just the normal utilities. But, that also changes when you hit prototype.

[Roll Tide]

From what i have gathered, i think i am going to go ET. It sounds like the more challenging of the three, so i figure that if i am going to push myself through this challenging of a program, i might as well take the hardest course! itll help keep me on my toes anyway.
.....     i mean, i knew the stuff that i study will be important, but i didnt think it was that top-secret. i mean, am i going to be studying info that the average civilian nuke worker doesnt know?
     Also, i have yet to decide whether or not i want to go sub or aircraft carrier. as of right now it is definetly carrier, ive heard too many horror stories of being on subs. has anyone here worked on a sub? the only way that i will do it is if i become an officer, for i know that they have better living conditions.
     that also brings up another subject, is it hard to get into OTS through the nuke program? will i have to take extra classes and get my degree first before i become an officer or do they readily take nuke students to OTS w/o completring their degree?
     Thanks again for all your help and info.
Sean

ET!!! I am appalled and will never post a reply to you again!

Actually, I enjoy having a willing audience, so I guess I must forgive and move forward. Let me just say there are no "easy" paths available. You have to have an expert level of knowledge of your job and a good understanding of every other rates' jobs at the completion of training!

Later on, you will get the opportunity to qualify senior enlisted watch: EWS on sub and PPWS (I think) on carrier. You won't be qualified to perform maintenance on other ratings equipment, but you will be able to operate it and understand the theory at an in-rate level of knowledge. An EWS qualified EM should be able to start up the Engine Room or draw a primary coolant sample or start up the Reactor!

Not "top-secret", but definitely "Confidential" material for NPS and NPTU. It is a good way to prevent the habit of bringing work home with you, and to keep you focused when it is study time.

Subs are my preference, because I liked the atmosphere of the small town. Under 150 on every sub I was on, and if you are on a boomer (Trident / Ohio today), you can make plans years in advance based on the 102 days on and 98 days off schedule (two crews on one sub with turnover in between!)

Never assigned to a carrier, but worked on carriers and cruisers while I was on a destroyer tender. I believe all the nuke cruisers are gone, even though they were great for sustained ops (like blockades of Iraq or other hostiles!) My opinion is there are tight, enclosed places on any navy ship just like on a sub, so claustrophobia should disqualify from the navy, not just subs. Well, maybe the subs expected people to go places that would have been deemed inaccessible on cruisers  and carriers!

OTS (It was OCS, or Officer Candidate School, when I was in, but I won't swear to anything about today's terms) or some type of commissioning is possible. There are many opportunities, including ECP (Enlisted Commissioning Program) which allows young sailors with significant college time to go finish there degree while drawing active duty salary and then be commissioned! Your Command Career Counselor will have much more info, and I know there are some other great programs for guys willing to spend some time in the navy after schooling.

Make sure you are ready to commit to the time required before you sign up for any additional time. A "STAR" re-enlistment seems too good to pass up, but many have passed it up and done better in the civilian world. Some passed it up and just lost the benefits and stayed in the navy over 8 years anyway. Be honest first with yourself and then with others, or you may be one of those idiots I worked with who couldn't explain why they went "STAR" to the "Retention Prevention Team"!

[Adidas2806]

ET!!! I am appalled and will never post a reply to you again!

, is there a competition between all you guys? MM's dont associate with ET's or something?

Actually the only reason why i chose that one for now is someone told me that 50% are MM's, 30% are EM's, and the last 20% are ET's. is that an accurate depiction?
just trying to go for the most challenging of the three

Also another thing i was wondering, are there extra classes i can choose to take(that is, ones that the navy doesnt already have us take) that will help me get a civilian job somewhere if i choose to go that route? i.e. extra english classes or history at a local college to get a degree, or licensed and/or certified in a particular area?

they do pay for laser eye surgery now too, dont they?

thanks again everyone!
Sean

[Roll Tide]

Competitive? US?
You get the best brains in the nuclear navy together, and you get as much competition as the movie TOP GUN had between fighter jockeys. I considered all the ratings, and talked it over with my Dad (ENCM USNR-retired) before making my choice. Of course, Dad thought my first choice should be ET, followed by IC (not a valid selection, but my info was old), BT (ditto), EM, or MM.

I decided I HAD to get through Nuke school before I could support a wife, and my girlfriend was determined to get married as soon as possible. I decided to go MM because the class was the shortest. (My ex-wife probably thinks that was quite funny!)

Though my decision was made for a REALLY dumb reason, it worked out well. Many civillian positions which would interest me are better suited to MM, though I was never a "motor-head" in school.

I hope you are right about LASIK, because the Navy prohibited me from getting it done in 1989 at my own expense! Some concern based on a pilot's study, which the idiots decided applied to subs!

Navy Campus has counselors who keep up to date on all the afloat programs as well as other degree / credit programs. They are a great asset, use them wisely!

[Slowpoke]

As a current instructor at the Naval Nuclear Power Training Command I commend you on your decision to go into the Naval Nuclear Power Program.  By the time you get here I will be gone, however, since I retire in 58 days.  The program has changed significantly from the 80's and 90's.    We are now using computer assisted instruction, which allows for significantly better instruction.  We have computer projection using Power Point lessons and animated graphics, which aids students in understanding the complex principles we are teaching.  There are Learning Resource Centers which allow students to review topics on PCs and a dedicated staff whose entire purpose is to assist students.  Over the past 50 years the program has devoloped into a phenominal learning institute.  There are detailed discussions and training regarding Principles Of Learning, Academic Advisors for Excellence and tons of additional staff assistance.  Our current attrition rates are way below the 35-40% that occured when I went through the program.  Even now though,  with attrition of 6-8%, the single most important factor in determining your success is your personal drive and the amount of effort you are willing to put in.  I have had students who put in as few as 10 extra hours a week studying and as many as 35.  The hours you may need to put in are not important.  Successfully completing the course is, at whatever level you decide to play.  I've known people who stayed for 30, got out at 6, re-enlisted one or two times.  No matter what they did after they left the canoe club they have all seemed to excell at whatever they chose to do.  I know an anethesiologist, 4 pilots, chiropractors, radcon techs, power plant operators (conventional and nuclear) and many, many, many ex-Nucs who have all had huge success once they leave the Navy.  The common thread for all of them is that they did whatever it took to pass the program.  Good luck on your career, be it short or long.

[Marlin]

   Well written Slowpoke, were you a recruiter at one time? The diversity of occupations for ex-Navy nukes is very true. Occupations for some of my former shipmates are Chimney Sweep, Hog Farmer, and Gospel singer. I have met many former shipmates as I traveled in Ops, RadCon , Maintenance, and One of my old Skippers is a VP Nuclear. I myself have worked as a Rad Tech, Outage Management Project Engineer, Instructor, Safety Analyst, Nuclear Criticality Specialist, Waste Coordinator, and Procedure writer. I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up (Nuke class 71-2).
   Adidas it won't be easy, but as for your future "You gotta have shades".

[moke]

To All,

Great input! Keep it going!

Have an Awesome Week!

Moke

[Austria]

I hope you are right about LASIK, because the Navy prohibited me from getting it done in 1989 at my own expense! Some concern based on a pilot's study, which the idiots decided applied to subs!

Well, I'm just guessing here (being an ex-carrier kinda guy) that the relation between pilots, subs, and laser eye surgery has to do with pressure changes. Much like glaucoma was a disqualifier for sub duty, I think it relates to submarines operating submerged at a slightly lower than atmospheric pressure. Pilots undergo similar reductions in ambient pressure at altitude and surgery to soft tissue such as the eyes may be adversley affected by pressure changes. Having said all that, I am sure that there have been a lot of follow up studies since 1989 documenting the effects. Things may well have changed since then.

Slowpoke: excellent comments. Reading your post makes me wish I could see for myself how things have changed since my days at NPS Orlando.

And Sean.....whatever rating you go for, if you apply yourself you will find the possibilities you open up for yourself will be nearly unlimited. Whether you stay in or get out after six. Stay nuke, or find another career path.

While I truly feel that the Navy Nuke program was the best education I cold have gotten ANYWHERE, the most important thing it taught me was that I can do pretty much anything if I put my mind to it.

Since my Navy days I have worked nuke plants, built and worked with 9,000 Curie Cobalt sources, and lived and taught scuba diving in the Caribbean. Now I live in Vienna, Austria where I teach English for business to companies like Diners Club, and am working on starting up my own language institute.
Still, I like to get back to a nuke plant a couple tmes a year. Both for the money and the people.....it's just an experience you won't find in many other places.

Best of luck which ever direction you head.

[moodusjack]

Better get used to corney jokes like this at nuke school, "now appearing at the Beta bar, the Group 2 rods with their hit song,'equilibrium xenon, you're driving my T-ave down'!".

[Already Gone]

The pressure inside the sub wasn't always below atmospheric.  Actually it was right at 1 atm. almost always.  Then, they would do a diesel drop test that would suck the corks right out of the reagent bottles.  Or, a deep dive that would compress the hull and make it pop.  My eardrums are still f^&ked up after seventeen years on dry land.

[moodusjack]

And when you get to prototype get ready for corney stuff like this:

You just lost vacuum in the Condenser, and all you can think of is,"yah picked a fine time to leave me, loopseal".

[moodusjack]

And when you get to the fleet never, never, never fall for the "funnel" or "vice" tricks.  Not unless you like MILSTANDARD 203DF445S lapping compound.

[Adidas2806]

just outta curiosity, last night on the news there was a report about the nuke problem some thirty yrs ago at three mile island or something like that(i think thats the name of it) and there is some huge controversy about nuclear power and how long it will last. there hasnt been a nuclear license issued since that incident. i have heard that several power plants licences expire in the next 20  yrs or so. am i getting myself into a dying field? i really wouldnt want to focus my career on something that was dying. i certainly hope not and am inclined to say that itll all be ok b/c they also said that like 25% of power used in the country is nuclear. pretty large chuink there.
     thank yuo guys again so much for all your info and help!
Sean

[Marlin]

   You can find pro and con for the nuclear industry's prognosis. Below is a DOE evaluation from last October. While reading through it you will find that goverment support is tied to the incumbent party. Conservative promoting nuclear and liberal not.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/nuclear.html

   You may find that nuclear power school may still be benificial. Only about half of my shipmates continued in the nuclear field and are doing well. I recently ran into an old shipmate who is a manager for a boiler inspection company (non-nuke).
   Good luck what ever your choice.

[Roll Tide]

just outta curiosity, last night on the news there was a report about the nuke problem some thirty yrs ago at three mile island or something like that(i think thats the name of it) and there is some huge controversy about nuclear power and how long it will last. there hasnt been a nuclear license issued since that incident.

They have to be careful how they word their statement to be factual. Since the 1979 Three Mile Island oops, there has not been a new construction plant licensed in the United States. Of course, about half of the operating licenses were granted since 1979, construction was already in progress in 1979.
Additionally, South Korea and Japan are building new nukes like nobody's business.

The question you seem to be asking is how long will this industry be viable without new construction in the US. With many plants licenses being extended, the majority of plants will still be operating in 30 years. Reclaiming the site takes years, and D&D assignments pay as well as operating sites. That means an additional 5-10 years of full employment in the industry after many plants start shutting down.

I don't think any other industry in the US could project a 40 year employment potential. Look at the number of people employed in farming or the telephone industry if you really want to see staffing reductions due to technology!

Marlin is right in his post that there are opportunities for new construction (or even completing some of the unfinished TVA plants!)  Even without additional construction, license extensions have made this an attractive field for this years high school graduates.

When people talk of the demise of Nukes, they are referring to the fact that in 1978 it looked like half of the country's electricity would be nuke generated by today. 20% is a fairly accurate amount of total electricity production.

Make sure you vote conservative if you want to see new nukes built.

[slarmox2]

Adidas,

First let me say again congrats for going nuke and going Navy. I myself am a Navy Nuke. I have been active duty for 9 months now and I am excited for the future. I personally voluteered for subs. You get paid about and extra $1200 per year starting out and that increases significatly with more sub time. My first preference will also be Boomer subs (Fleet Ballistic Missle submarines.) I like the other shipmate who was a fellow Boomer like the schedule. I hate the idea of being on a carrier or a submarine for that matter for a full six months not being able to see my family (I'm married). I would rather go out in 2-3 month increments. Since you are not married, maybe you wouldn't mind being out for 6 months at a time. That way you could visit ports and "see the world" as they say. You also have more choices of where you are stationed if you Choose to be on Fast Attack subs or Carriers. Going boomer subs you have two options, Kings Bay, GA (right on the Florida state line and East coast), or Bangor, WA almost as northwest as one can get in the US with out living in Hawaii.

With that said, I would like to respond to some of the most recent posts.

I did my english papers on the Nuclear industry and feel I, too, have a pretty good outlook on the future of Nuke power in america. Like one poster stated at least 40 yrs before any of the current power plants would stop supplying jobs. I do not forsee this happening though. Bush is pushing for an increase in Nuke power plants in the new energy bill. There has been a significant decrease in Nuclear engineers in the past few years and most of the original nuke engineers are scheduled for retirement. This is a career that is highly demanded. There is a lot of money to be earned even in the navy with this field, more than eny other enlisted career, I believe.

With that said, I encourage you to apply for the CASH program for 1 full year. If you are awarded the CASH program, go to a community college and take Calculus I and II and Calculus based Physics I and II. This and a good ACT or SAT score will almost guarantee you a chance at an officer acension program called STA-21 (seaman to admiral). As a previous poster mentioned the navy will pay you a salary for 3 full years while you earn your bachelors degree and then commission you as an office in the USN. Then you will owe the USN 5 years after you are commisisioned. I have more details because I have taken the time to research everything about my opportunities and if I can help in any way feel free to email me.

Go Nuke
Go Navy
Go Now

[Roll Tide]

Great info with good specifics someone out for 9 years can't provide! +Karma slarmox2

[Adidas2806]

ya know, now the more i think about it i am being more pursuaded to go submarine. i do adnmit that the thought of it all is appealing. I definetly have intrest in seeing the world(already having been in 7 countries and on over 60 planes by the time i was 17)
    slarmox-how do yuo exactly go for the cash program?do i apply for it now, during, or after bootcamp?and then would i do it before during or after nuke school? i havent headr of this program yet and i have been trying to look into every possibility.
     it is also a relief tyo know that this uindustry will be viable for at least the next forty years and most probably longer than that.
     but i can say that if i do decide to go sub, i will definetly be going for officer, as i have heard theyre living conditions on subs are a little bit more accomodationg, especiall if im fgonna be in one for 6 months. which is the best way to become an officer??
thanks again everyone-off to the gym now
sean

[Roll Tide]

itrimble's post was split to a new thread.

[slarmox2]

Adidas,

The best way I could inform you of everything I know would be to tell you in person or over the phone, but that would not benefit many of the others who are seeking similar advice about this subject. I will get on later tonight after I finish playing basketball and my English homework. I will then let you know more of what I know.

Question.. When is your RTC Shipdate? What is your HS GPA? Do you have any college done? If so GPA? Are you in scouting? Do you know anyone else who is interested in signing up in the program? Have you taken the ACT or SAT? What was your score?

Later,

Slarmo
x2

[Adidas2806]

the earliest they can get me to boot as of now is nov 8th. i really didnt want to wait that long, and my recruiter is going to try and get me outta here around august so i dont have to be in bc while theres snow, cant imagine that being much fun.
no college done, but hs gpa is 3.2 and i only took the sat's once and got a 1070. i know i can do better than tghat though, i took them without studying one bit, just went in and took em. im planning on taking them once more and cramming really hard for them, aiming for at leats a 1300.

[dezelman]

Great info, I'm in the same boat as adidas and this has helped me out quite a bit.

[Flooznie]

LOL....I have to laugh when I compare peoples attitudes on this forum from those who are still in prototype to those who just left the boat and got out of the Navy.  It is night and day.  Look through the posts and see the ones that haven't got to the boat and stuff are like "go navy! hoo-rah!", and then look at posts from people who did the 6 and got out! LOL

ET1 (SS)

[Adidas2806]

just how are the living conditions on base at nuke school? are they set up like college dorms? roommates? can you live off base? recreational or fun stuff to do?thoguh i know we wont have much time for it!

[Jorderon]

The living conditions in Charleston are great.  In Power School you get your own room unless they're overcrowded, in which case you might have one (My class, 0305 had a few people with roomates).  In A-School you WILL have a roommate unless you luck out and theres some oversight.  Rooms are about the size of a normal bedroom, slighly larger for the double rooms in the A-School Barracks (You will move between A-School and Powerschool)

The barracks have enough room for a  TV with  game systems or whatever, and possibly a computer if you really want one, you will probably have time to use it reguardless of what everyone says about how hard NPS is, I had one, I made it through ok, but I have no freaking idea what do with it when I get to the fleet in a few months.

The Barracks are new, the AC works, a big plus in the summer months of South Carolina (1000% humidity and 100 Degrees) , and its all on Uncle Sams dime.  The food is "free" by that I mean, you pay for it reguardless so you may as well eat it.  The galley food isnt half bad actually when compared to real food, however the Breakfast is definetly worth waking up for in my opinion.  Its gourmet compared to the "Food" they serve you at boot camp.

As for recreation or fun.  In A-School your SLPO might think that "Mandatory Class Fun" is a good idea.  In which you will probably muster in some predetermined location and do some activity that dosent involve anything relating to what you would rather be doing at the time, in the middle of your weekend or perhaps during happy hour, so you might have to deal with that.  Otherwise go to the beach during the summer (Myrtle Beach is close enough to go to without a chit or anything,)  Charleston has stuff do to, dispite popular belief,  probably not as fun as when NPS was in  Orlando, Florida, but I havent been around long enough to comment on that.

All in all, NPS wasnt that bad.  In fact in hindsight it was easy.  Enjoy, I know I did.

[Mah1985]

I just wanted to say thanks to everybody. This has been a great source of information. I'm shipping to RTC on aug 5 and am counting the days. see ya in charleston.

Mark

[Roll Tide]

Mah,
Congratulations on the beginning of your journey. I believe all young men should serve in the military in some form. Of ocurse, I think Nuke Navy is the best way. I appreciate your hard work and the service you will provide on behalf of us civillians.

Keep us posted when you get out of Boot Camp. Tolerate Great Lakes and love Charleston.
 

[Mah1985]

What are the classes at a-school and power school like? how long are the classes? how many people on average are in a class?

[Envy Digital]

Hello all.

First of all, I love this site! I have learned so much and almost every question I had before reaching this site has been answered.  I haven't taken the ASVAB or any other Military aptitude test, but I've scored 99's on every practice exam, I had a 3.8 HS GPA, and a 1380 SAT score, and A's in AP Physics and Calculus AB and BC.  So, I expect to do well, and I would love to join the Navy Nuke program. It seems very intellectually vigorous and I would love the challenge, not to mention it's very beneficient. So let's say I take the ASVAB this week, what is the shortest alotted time between then and arriving to Boot Camp? I am looking forward to enlist. Thanks in advance for any reply.

[Adidas2806]

that all depends i suppose, they wont give you an exact date untill you sign the papers and that wont be untill you take the ASVAB. in all honestly, im pretty much in the same boat as you with school.(though  i didnt take any AP courses, was kind of a slacker, regret it now,cant change it) but i got good grages in all my classes. i enlisted this past february, and the earliest they could get me out is november. if you were enlisting in as anything else, there is much more flexibility, so they could get you out there next week. Some people may of dropped out and there are more openings, but i wouldnt know that.
     Great thing about going in november is a 10,000 enlistment bonus, plus that all navy nukes start at E-3, 2 paygrades abpve everyone else. i havent gone to bootcamp or the nuke school yet, but take it from all of these guys-its an awesome oppurtunity. take the ASVAB no matter what you decide and see what doors open up.
Sean

[Envy Digital]

Thanks man. I asked because, from reading everyone's experiences, it's seems like the Nuke program is one of the best routes to go into in any military branch and I am just getting a little anxious.  I have some traffic fines to take care of before I go to the MEP, but I am excited about my chances of getting in, although still a little apprehensive about Boot Camp. I'm a Southern boy so I would like to avoid going in in the winter, but I am also ready to get out this crummy town. . 
I was pretty academically aggressive in HS only so I could get into a good college. Well, I did, I got accepted into Washington University in St. Louis, which is a Top 10 university, nationally. I left there because first, it costs nearly 40k a year to attend, and secondly, I had a slow start and couldn't recover during my freshman year. So now I am trying get back on my feet and at the same time service my country.
How was the interview process? Can you get the Seaman-to-Admiral program included in your contract? 
Congrats on getting in, hopefully we'll cross paths in Charleston.

[Adidas2806]

, have fun when you get everything straightned out and are ready for MEPS, its a 2 day process. for me, i went on a monday night, took the ASVAB, and then they bussed us to a hotel, where they then wake you up at 4:00am. buss you back to meps where it takes the entire day to take your physical and sign all the paperwork. all in all you will have about 5 hours of just waiting with nothing to do. take a book if you can. seaman to admiral program im not sure of, maybe someone else on this site can give you that answer. im not sure how you go about getting into that program.
since its a 2 yr thing, im certain well run into each other at charleston. itd be good going into there knowing someone versus noone

[mcd_808]

aloha

first of all, i just wanted to say that this site is very helpful. i have been visiting this site for about a month now, but i finally got my lazy butt to actually post something. (). i too am in the navy nuclear program, i went to meps at the end of march. i took the asvab the first day. and i had to spend 10 hours, the next day getting my physical. anyways...i wanted to leave asap, so i was able to get a ship date at the end of june  i look forward to corresponding with some of the ppl on here.

thats all for now.
bye
   

[navykid55]

i too am a Depper in the Nuke program.  Scored a 94 on the ASVAB and 59 of 80 on Nuke test. I am shipping off May 24th.  I have learned so much by reading everyone's post and i'm glad to know that i'm not the only one that is nervous. one of thing things not addressed tho is what i will need to take to Great Lakes as in supplies or clothes.  i would greatly appreciate the info. also, i want to travel a lot, so should i go for a carrier or a sub?

[Marlin]

Navykid the proper way to phrase your question is....should I go for a target or a sub..

[Roll Tide]

i too am a Depper in the Nuke program.  Scored a 94 on the ASVAB and 59 of 80 on Nuke test. I am shipping off May 24th.  I have learned so much by reading everyone's post and i'm glad to know that i'm not the only one that is nervous. one of thing things not addressed tho is what i will need to take to Great Lakes as in supplies or clothes.  i would greatly appreciate the info. also, i want to travel a lot, so should i go for a carrier or a sub?

Congratulations on your upcoming adventure!
What you need to bring: if you need it, the Navy will issue it. Bring an address book and the minimum you need for the first night (a disposable travel kit or equivalent!)

The old saying is: "If the Navy wants you to have it, they will issue it!" Never more true than Boot Camp!

[Adidas2806]

i do know that once you get to bootcamp, you have two choices. evrrything you brought with yuo(including clothes on your back) you must either donate to charity or mail back home. you cannot even keep it with you! best not to bring anything at all.
c ya in charleston!
Sean

[Mah1985]

Hey I just thought i'd say that i talked to my recruitor today and managed to get my ship date pushed up to may 25..only 27 more days, thank god no more waiting!! see ya in charleston...(if not rtc)

Mark

[Roll Tide]

Hey I just thought i'd say that i talked to my recruitor today and managed to get my ship date pushed up to may 25..only 27 more days, thank god no more waiting!! see ya in charleston...(if not rtc)

Mark

Should I point out it means you can get out of the Navy sooner? Thanks for deciding to serve our country!

[Mah1985]

speaking of getting out earlier. what does everybody think about either doing 6 or doing 20 years? does it look any better if you are a chief compared to a petty officer? or does actual experience in the civ world look better? also it seems like the pay is really nice for civ nukes but is there any kind of retirement benefits or pension and if so how many years would you have to work before you could get them? thanks again to nukeworker.com.. it has to be the best resource out there for this kind of info

Mark

[Roll Tide]

speaking of getting out earlier. what does everybody think about either doing 6 or doing 20 years? does it look any better if you are a chief compared to a petty officer? or does actual experience in the civ world look better? also it seems like the pay is really nice for civ nukes but is there any kind of retirement benefits or pension and if so how many years would you have to work before you could get them? thanks again to nukeworker.com.. it has to be the best resource out there for this kind of info

Mark

I don't think there's a significant difference between E-5 with 5 years and an E-6 with 6 years; also E-6 with 10 years is about the same as E-7 with 10 years.

After 11 1/2 years in the Navy, I got out as an E-6. Once I had 1 year of commercial experience, I was preferred to E-7/8/9 with 20 years fresh out of the Navy. The money isn't why you go in the Navy, don't let it be the reason to stay in!

One advantage of the Navy is if you work for a government agency afterwards, you can get some credit from your Navy service.

Most commercial utilities have 401K and pension programs which are portable (you take it with you when you leave, if you meet the restrictions.) If a utility matches half of your 401K contributions, you may have to spend 5-6 years with the company before you are "fully vested." You could leave earlier than that and have all the money you put in the program.

With $10,000 a year (average in 2004 dollars) of your contributions for 30 years and company matching funds, you might have $500,000 before figuring in the fact that it's in a mutual fund and should be growing! That means you could retire with $1 million, and draw interest only from your account at 54 (18 + 6 + 30)! I guess you could cut these figures in half for 20 years commercial.

I doubt you will have a Navy program which provides as much benefit in 30 years, and the 15 year retirement is really sad: It works out to about 1/3 of BASE pay from your final pay month.

On the other hand, if you are doing a vital service for your country, that's worth more than a 401K!

[Roll Tide]

Some additional reading on the subject:

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?topic=400/0

[dav8]

To the ones wondering what to bring, when I went through 5 years ago you kept the clothes you wore there in a bag that stayed in your barracks.  I would bring a good set of razors, the ones they supply you with are single blade disposables.  And I wouldn't worry about doing 20 years until you have done 2 years.  And I don't believe you can get Seaman to admiral in a contract.  For a good idea on what to expect of your time in the Navy, check out:
www.funtimenavy.com

[l2aider1]

Hey Maher I also ship out the 25th of may also, I might just see you in a-school, or nuc school.

[Mah1985]

where are you from?

[l2aider1]

I'm from Ft. Meade, Maryland.  We've got 15 more days left, and I'm pretty excited about it.  I think boot camp will be fun.  Feel free to pm me so we don't spam on this thread.  Thanks again to everyone at nukeworker.com for all the tips and advice. 

[moodusjack]

Be prepared for the Command Career Councilor hard sell campaign to tach on just two more years for retention bonus (i.e., total of eight vis-a-vis six years).

If you get selected for ELT training, I'd recommend that you do the six and become an HP.  Compare the bonus money with the salary ranges posted here and at those other sites.  The extra two years experience will probably not add a lot to your resume from the Commerical (or DOE) world perspective, either.  You'll be considered a "junior senior".

I reuped in the mid 70's.   Not much jobs during the Nixon wage freeze days.  Then, May 79.  Soon many HP jobs cropped up.  Radiation was front page and Anchor Man news.  Chuckie P and Bobbie L were advertising in Navy Times for HPs.  It was chump change now, but it was exponetial with respect to my monthly draw from the military. 

Think "ching ching", and you'll do alright.

[azkidd]

For all it is worth, My brother will be Retiring from the Navy in 2007, after 20 years, at the age of 41, as of now is a Senior Chief, has shore duty in San Diego ( except for his last 6 months), and still will be young enough to join the civilian world as an Electrical Engineer, Mechanical Engineer, HP, Control Room Supervisor, Shift Manager, any Engineering field, any degreed field, or.....accept a job at what he does now....FTCPAC.  He is a Technical expert for the Pacific Fleet, on Nuclear boats.  Just think...an Income from the Navy...for life, benefits, as well as Income, 401K AND another RETIREMENT FROM CIVI LIFE IF HE CHOOSES TO DO SO.  And as far as Carrier versus Sub....for the money a Carrier is where it is at.  Room, size, and the fact that in order to be a target, they have to go through many Vessels to get to an Aircraft Carrier (Including Subs).
For all it is worth, I wish I had taken the opportunity to enlist in the Nuclear Navy, and go as far as my Brother has, rather than start out as a Deconner, and work my way up to an HP.  I was Ignorant not to.  On top of that, travelling the world.  I hope that you FULLY investigate your career, rather than listen to this website and all who have never gone the 20 year distance.  Know your goals before you jump.
I am currently urging my son to prepare himself for College, or the Nuclear Navy.  My two cents worth.

[Adidas2806]

l2aider1- in case you didnt get my message, i live in odenton, right down the street from you. kind of an odd thign to run into someone so close. do you go to the recruiting station opn mountain road? we might have the same recruiter even!

[Adidas2806]

Alrighty, one major line of discussion on one of the other threads was about the security clearance to getinto nps, and that financial matters are the main reason your clearance gets put on hold before you can go to nuke school.
    Make a long story short, my taxes havent been filed for 2003 yet. my mother claimed me on her taxes, therefore  taking away my 900 dollar refund and making me owe like 200 bucks. didnt have the money at the time, so i was planning on filing an extension. mother told me she would take care of it, and she said she did the next afternoon. well i just found out last week she lied and never got around to it.
   the question: i brought this to my recruiters attention, as i plan on driving down to the irs building in annapolis next week to iron all this crap out, but he told me it wouldnt affect my navy clearance because i already had it. apparently he talked to someone lastweek and they mentioned that i was already approved.....
     is this correct? or is this just some recruiter talking to get me in faster-as i do not wish to be on hold between rtc and nps. any comments or advice greatly appreciated!

[Roll Tide]

Unless the Navy has made some major changes since 9/11, you don't have a clearance yet. Make sure when you get to MEPS that everything is documented, so if there are any problems it isn't because you hid something.

If they don't want to document this (at MEPS), don't sign anything until they do. NOTHING! When you explain you aren't going to do that, they will document it just to make you sign and move on down the assembly line. Trust me, you don't want stuff like this to haunt you down the road. Stick to your guns while you hold all the chips.

[Trinian23]

Risking continuing a dead thread, I am going to reiterate what I said in a different thread, STUDY.

Congratulations on all of you joining the nuclear pipeline, it is an extremely tough but rewarding school, and you will be forever changed because of it. In between A school and Power school I was on T-track due to only having an interim security clearance. These are granted on the CO level (I believe) In order to go into NPS, you actually had to have the clearance. But don't fret, it is not a bad thing to be on T-track, it is a chance to take a break from school and enjoy things for a little bit, you can explore the area, go to the beach and go find those College of Charleston girls! After NPS, there is prototype. One thing I have not noticed in earlier posts is that nobody has mentioned the oppurtunities for students to be a Staff Pick Up (SPU). This is very good oppurtunity, especially for those of you who are looking to get into an officer program and who may have not made it the first time around. As a SPU, you are an instructor at the Prototype, and you are the low man on the totem pole, but you also very quickly become the technical expert in a lot of areas of plant operations since you end up doing everything. Being a SPU myself until a year ago, I have some advice for those of you going into prototype. First off DO NOT data dump everything you learned in NPS and more importantly "A" school, and while I am at it, try to not just memorize everything in those previous schools. If you have a good working understanding of the rate specific information, you will be able to understand the integrated plant a lot easier...therefore get better grades. Second off, use every oppurtunity you have to learn where valves, switchboards, etc... are. There is always a half hour "end of shift" cleanup, while cleaning, figure out what it is you are cleaning. Physically touch (if you can safely do it) every component that you are studying to get it into your head. DO NOT be intimidated by the instructors at prototype, they are there to help you even though they may be a little gruff at times (hey we're in the Navy). And if you want to be a SPU, it's simple, show some initiative, spend QUALITY time studying, don't be cocky, and review, review, review. If you don't, you will forget stuff that you didn't realize you forgot. And I will dispell this myth also, where I was (s8G), the speed of qualification of a student had absolutely no bearing on whether or not he/she was picked up as a SPU, it was knowledge, test scores, leadership ability, and personality. The most important part of the whole pipeline though, maximize liberty! This is extremely important! I am not saying go get s$&t kickin drunk all of the time (although it may happen every once in a while, oh the stories I could tell) I am saying go out and have a good time, go to the beach, go hiking, waterskiing, whatever floats your boat.
    Fair winds and Following seas.

[Roll Tide]

There is a reason I didn't suggest Staff Puke Up. I think it is a waste of time for a Sailor who wants operating experience in a shipboard envoronment.

I can see where the experience could be useful for someone with the ultimate goal of getting a commission. If your goal is to get some time in the Navy, then get out & go commercial I would suggest going straight to sea. If your goal is enlisted advancement, I would suggest go to sea and then prototype or NPS as instructor.

Just my opinion, but it's based on the success (and failure) of hundreds of Sailors and ex-Sailors I have worked alongside over the past 20 years.

[ISOCS]

 The best way to prepare for nuke school is via math, physics, and chemistry. Always pay attention in class, do homework, ask questions, and most importantly write everything down. The attrition rate is 50%. If you don't make it, you only have to do 4 yrs. and at least you'll have a rate.

[buzz]

Whats up man,

As opposed to most of these other guys I'm still in.  First off don't screw up in boot.  Alot of nukes lose nuke status by failing PRT 2.  Even though your smart you still have to do the physical stuff.  At the end of boot your given your rate.  Of course they ask you what you want to be but don't expect to get it.  When you get to A School don't screw around.  I thought it was a breeze and you scored better on the ASVAB then I did.  Still study.  You want to be top dog in your class.  It's not just an ego thing.  Don't worry about boning up before you go.  All you need to know they teach you.  Just study the hell out of it.  Also don't fall into a bad cycle.  Go have fun on your off time but don't get stupid.  Half my class in power school were kicked out due to failing scores.  These guys were smart too, they just liked to drink and have fun not a good idea when you need to study harder then you ever have.  After power school you've got it licked.  Just remeber every thing you do is cared with you until you leave the millitary.  If you want any special schools or programs, you better have a good record to prove why you deserve it. 

Good Luck
MM1 (SW/AW)

[Fermi2]

I was in Class 8502  in section MM "F". What section were you in?

A word of advice, I'm a commercial nuke. I left the Navy in 1990 as an MM1 SS ELT.

I've moved up about as fast as you can in this industry and have been a Shift Manager at Fermi2 (A BWR the best type of reactor in the world). I'm soon to be an Operations Manager at another utility, I've had a Reactor Operators License since 1994 and a Senior Reactor Operators License since 1998. A few words of advice if you want to become a Commercial Nuke

1: Most nukes are getting 20 year life extensions which wil take many to the late 2040s.

2: STUDY and if you want to be a commercial nuke you'd best learn cross rate stuff, it's a lot tougher in the commercial world. The level of knowledge is more in depth and in breadth. What you learned in the Navy will be extremely basic.

3: Most Commercial Nukes are ex Staff instructors with over 75% being ex Staff Pick Ups.

4: Being an ELT will not get you any preference in getting a job in either HP or Chemistry in the commercial world.

5: If you want a job in Commercial Operations the rate to go is MM. I have 4 reactor Operators and 2 Senior Reactor Operators on my shift. I also have 8 non licensed operators (Operate power plant equipment but not the reactor itself). My ROs are all ex MMs. My SROs are an EM and a Conventional ET (with an Engineering degree). Out of 9 Shift Managers at my plant 7 are Ex MMs, 1 is an Ex EM the other was a civilian with a degree. MMs tend to move up extremely quickly in this industry because they have a very good broad view in Power plant operations. Of my Non Licensed Operators 4 are ex MMs, and 4 were civilians we hired in because they'd worked at the plant in other capacities and had one key ingredient we couldn't get from Navy guys, They knew how commercial plants did business. My shift is unique in that regard in that most shifts are entirely ex Navy. There are only 2 ex ETs in our Operations Department, none are supervisors.

6: Have fun, the Navy nuclear program is outstanding, and a great time. Although I said it's very basic compared to commercial programs it is the building block on which we built our training programs.

7: In 1990 I hired in here at 40 K a year. Bu 1994 I was making about 60K (All without overtime) Now I make roughly 140 K without OT.

8: NPS will be the most rewarding experience of your life but I'll warn you right now. Your 99 ASVAB and your GPA don't mean jack shit in the Navy Program. You can Ace Nuke School and drop in Prototype, you'll find a lot of guys who do well in NPS have a tougher time in Prototype because it's a totally different learning experience. That's not true in all cases. I finished 2nd in 8502 and finished Prototype in 14 weeks. The guy who finished 3rd needed an extension and took almost 32 weeks. The guy who finished 4th ended up being dropped. We all went to A1W in 1985.


Mike Brubaker


 

[RCLCPO]

True.

While NPS is the "book learning" school, prototype is the "hands-on" school.  High scores at one school do not always mean high scores at the other.  In fact, the "anchorman" at my NPS class (8507), graduating with something like a 2.51 gpa, was #1 in his class at prototype because, while not a written test-taker, he kicked aft while on watch.  I saw others with 3.8-3.9 gpa's from NPS never understand that it's lefty-Loosey, righty-tighty.  We've all known nerds that were great guys, but didn't have a lick of common sense.

Work ethic also is a factor.  As a supervisor out in the fleet, I'd much rather have someone who had a 2.8-3.3 gpa and wasn't adverse to a little effort, than someone with a 3.8 gpa who never had to work for it.

[Fermi2]

The Chief hit it right on the head. Work ethic is everything in the Nuke Program. A lot of very intelligent guys are challenged for the first time in their academic careers, and cannot meet the challenge simply because they never thought anything could be that tough. In addition to your academic requirements you still need to do all the stuff the military demands. Mommy and Daddy or even your Boot Company Commander are no longer around to hold your hand.

At Prototype it's a bit worse, although I do understand Charleston doesn't have the distractions from the old Prototype system, those being also having to run your own household.

The key is Prototype is a LOT of integrated knowledge, in fact those who thrive in this industry are the ones who integrate things well and are not necessarily the best test takers. You might as well throw out any academic aheivement you've had to date because it doesn't matter anymore. We had two guys with Mechanical Engineering degrees not make it through NUke School and another who didn't make it through Prototype. On the other hand our anchorman who made it through with a 2.5, a 18 year old kid with a C Average in HS got to Prototype, kicked arse and was well regarded in the fleet. (We also admired him a lot, he put in 60 to 70 hours study a week, when we were out on OBT he was studying, we did help him out quite a bit though).

One of my favorite memories of Nuke School was going to McDonalds and picking up food for those who were staying in to study. Also Chi Chis had an excellent Happy Hour on Friday afternoons. And WHO could forget the Cover Girl!!

Two months ago my family and I went to Orlando, my little girl wanted to see where Daddy lived and went to school. The Orlando maps still showed Rickover Circle and all. I followed me old route I used to walk to Fashion Square Mall and ended up getting somewhat lost because there's about a dozen new streets and a housing developement where Nuke School once stood.

Talk about feeling old

Mike

[Roll Tide]

I was in Class 8502  in section MM "F". What section were you in?

I was 8502 section MM "B". You might remember me as the "troublemaker" that gave EM1 Frangionne (MM "B" section advisor) the handle EMI Frangionne!

MMCS (later MMCM) Ralph Carter was MTMO instructor for our class, and I have run into him here in the BFN Training Department.

It looks like you are proof that if you work hard after your 6 years in the Canoe club, the sky is the limit. Glad to see a former classmate moving up in the world. Get transferred to the South so you can offer me a job!!

[Fermi2]

Heck Man,

I was just ecstatic to find this website!!!.

EM1 Frangione was the MM F section advisor. If I recall correctly MM B was our sister section. Were you perhaps in class with a guy named Roger Smith who looked about 16 years old? The last time I saw EM1 Frangione he was EMC Frangione and he'd rode the Shark into Mare for final decom. My MTMO Instructor was ETC Pritchard. Man it's odd, NPS is so imbedded in my mind I can name every instructor we had!

Actually I'm really sick of Michigan and have been hoping to move to either Surry or North Anna. I turned down a job at St Lucie.

Mike

[Roll Tide]

Heck Man,

I was just ecstatic to find this website!!!.

EM1 Frangione was the MM F section advisor. If I recall correctly MM B was our sister section. Were you perhaps in class with a guy named Roger Smith who looked about 16 years old? The last time I saw EM1 Frangione he was EMC Frangione and he'd rode the Shark into Mare for final decom. My MTMO Instructor was ETC Pritchard. Man it's odd, NPS is so imbedded in my mind I can name every instructor we had!

Actually I'm really sick of Michigan and have been hoping to move to either Surry or North Anna. I turned down a job at St Lucie.

Mike

I thought Chief Pritchard was the ETMO instructor. I believe you are right about Roger Smith looking 16. We used to ask him if he got all his study time in before his curfew!

I don't have too many hard feelings against people I actually worked and trained with, though the guy that was probably your last detailer (I won't name him) is way overdue a blanket party!

I have been on this site for a while, and there is nothing else to compare on the NET. I would like to see a little more OPS perspective / participation. I have seen improvement in that area in the past year, so my hopes are high for the future of the site.

[Ikesss]

You shouldn't have too much of a problem if you did that well on the ASVAB. For me, I only had 2 years of High School Math and Science. I had a hell of a time at NPS(class 7805). I was in the 2nd section, so I imagine they spoon fed us more. $ hrs volunteer study time every night. Key word "volunteer". Don't let them require it. i would bug the hell out of the instructors every night. I found that the "smart" guys did real well in the first 3 month, developed zero study habits then had it pretty tough during the next 3 months. That's where you get classes like thermodynamics, Rx Theory Electrical theory(I was an MM) metalurgy......

It was the toughest time of my life, but it was also the happiest day when I saw my score on the final(just a 3.05, but good enough for me).


The key is to apply yourself. When I got to Prototype(whatever it is now) I spent extra time getting signoff. So they thought I was smart and picked me for ELT. No matter what Mr. Brubaker says, Utilities do look for ELT's first. I've spoken to a Supervisor at Diablo Canyon(a good plant) and they were looking for ELTs. Their Hps and Rad and Chem, not many plants like that these days. I've been an HP Supervisor for 15 years and have found that for the most part, the ex navy guys were the sharpest.

Of course it only took me 5 yrs, 11 months and 29 days to figuire out that while the Navy was a good place to get educated it wasn't for me.


Good luck, and listen to everyones recommendations.

[Fermi2]

Oops,

What I should have said is Fermi doesn't give any preference to ELTs. The last few techs we've hired have been road techs only one of which had Navy experience. Same with our Chem Techs. In my opinion I'd rather have a guy with one year of commercial experience than a Navy Nuke with 10 years because the learning curve is so sharp.

By the way, you're at Diablo Canyon,, Do you know Dennis Peterson and Bruce Davis?

Mike

[dep759]

Recently I deped into the navy and was an aecf, however the classifier at meps suggetsed that I take another test for the nuke field. Well I passed it and switched to nuke, however I was wondering if anyone would mind giving a  little advice. First off, my recruiters are really pushing for me to go on a sub. However, I just wanted  to get the scoop on how life is on a sub. The idea of closed spaces isnt whats killing me its just that on an air craft carrier theres so much more stuff to do You know what i mean? Secondly my recruiter advised me to get someone to enlist as well so that we could go in the buddy system. (hopefully to make things easier) However the closest Ive come is getting a friend in whos become an mt. Any advice? thanks in advance

[Beta_effect]

You might find this site of interest: http://www.submarinestore.com

Of particular interest:

http://www.submarinestore.com/books.htm

The Compete Idiot's Guide to Submarines
by Michael DiMercurio, Michael Benson
Paperback: 358 pages (February 4, 2003)
Each copy includes bookplate signed by author, Michael DiMercurio.
Domestic shipping included.
$23.95

Don't sink to reading technical manuals to learn about submarines! The Complete Idiot's Guide to Submarines will show you exactly how these boats operate - and do it a manner that's easy to understand for the lay person! Between these covers you'll:

learn the ins and outs of a submarine - from the outer hull and ballast tanks to the sensor and weapons systems;

delve into details of underwater living conditions including how oxygen is generated, how food is kept fresh, and how to combat claustrophobia;

take part in a daily drill as performed by a submarine crew;

and much more.

This is, without a doubt, the most technology comprehensive and easy to understand book on the subject of submarines and submarine-ing.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Submarines is the perfect tool to:

bring the new submarine wife or girlfriend up to speed quickly;

assist submarine sailors and veterans in explaining to family members what life in the boats is like;

help adults and children alike understand the purpose and function of our submarine fleet, and comprehend the rigors of daily life of our gallant undersea warriors

Bodega says: "I wish I had something like this when I was qualifying!"

[RCLCPO]

A couple of other sources of information:

Book: SUBMARINE, A Guided Tour Inside a Nuclear Warship
Written by Tom Clancy, it's a reasonable guide for the layman.

Game: 688i Hunter-Killer
An older game, but a great simulation of the performance of a 688i.  There is enough material in the "school of the boat" sections that, on one of my boats, junior members of the crew used it to study for their submarine qualifications!

[exnuke19]

Your recruiter is pushing for you to go Nuke and to get a buddy to join so he can meet his quota.

The other posts here are pretty good ideas for info on the subs.

[scruffy]

Well Adidas I went to nuke school under the old Rickover era. A little background I got a 58 on my NFQT and had already failed out of college and was mediocre in high school. I acually took a rather unconvential path to prepare. In a bar one night before I went off to boot I got in a hypnotis show and as a result he asked if anyone would like to have a post hypnotic suggestion some asked for stop smoking some lose weight I asked to help me study better and retain and comprehend what i took in. As a result I finished MM A school with 98% completion and top 10% in all the nuke training with a 3.78 on the final from NPS I aced 2 reactor principles tests and missed only 1 or 2 questions on many others (class 8007) . When I left I was a Chief selectee ( aced my chiefs exam in 30 min.) but wanted to go into the civilian nuke program and since then I have aced many of my tests and scored a 96 out of a 100 consistantly on my Northeast utilities exam (which is the typical theory exam to work in the commercial plants) since so I would say that the approach I took worked but mind you is unconvential. Also mind you that in nuke school I only went on +4's only 1 week and had lots of spare time to enjoy the attractions that were in Olando FL. Good luck and enjoy.
NPTU Idaho S1W
USS Tunny
Subase Pearl R-5 Shift Sup.
USS Swordfish and out

[Danielson13fx]

My name is Daniel Scutt. I enlisted March of this year (26th, I think), and am set to leave for boot camp January 12th. My story... I got a 97 on my ASVAB, if I remember correctly, and was offered the Nuke Program. At first I was like.. Eh.. Nuclear material.. cancer.. But, once my recruiter, Doug Baker, told me about the experience I could have, I opted. Between MM, EM, and ET, I decided to go for Electrictronics Technician. So... A few questions.

1. First and foremost. Advice?
2. What's the difference between an ET and an EM?
3. Further advice for a kid who's now not so sure he wants to go. I figure, I want to get out of this town and make something of myself, you know? But, if I don't like it, it's 6-8 years that I'm trapped in yet another bad experience. Egh..
4. Stories! I love listening to people's experience in the Navy. Particularly those that pertain to my job, but I'll take any!

[Roll Tide]

wELCOME DANIELSON!

Jump into it with your eyes and ears open, because you will have incredible learning opportunities! EM works with larger wires, ET works with smaller wires and electronics. Both control major equipment required to support the nuclear reactor on a naval vessel. ET is considered slightly more prestigious initially, but by the time you are EWS it won't matter to future employers.

[Palo verde AO]

Daniel, I was a Nuke ET in the Navy. I got out in 1989. I presently Work at the biggest Nuclear facility in the country in Arizona, for the last 15 years. The Nuc training that you get will be the best. We like to hire ex-Navy Nukes here, see other post as to we are hiring. I too was tring to get out of a small town in "way" upstate NY. I turned 18 in bootcamp! The one thing that the Nuc Navy trains you on, is that you can do anything as long as there is a procedure. I was single and make the best of it when I was in. I did alot of traveling. I have no regrets about going into the Navy Nuke program. The Aux Operator job that I have is great and pays very well.  Good luck!!! 

[gato-rojo]

Does the Navy Nuke program now admit women? I know for a short time it did and then did not allow women in the program?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Nobody has an answer for me?

I believe they do.  Search for posts by Jeepgirl1.  She's going into the Navy nuke program and has posted quite a few times. 

[s_Phoenix]

yes the navy lets women be nukes now.  Worst thing that they ever did was to let women on ships. 

[Already Gone]

There were women in my class, but none in the ones after.  Back then, they could only serve in non-combatant billets.  So they filled up all the shore duty and tender jobs to the point that all the nukes coming off their sea duty rotation had to go to non-nuke jobs when they finally did get cut loose from sea duty.  This was not only a waste of their training, but it meant that the Navy had to train still more nukes to replace them at sea because the women on shore couldn't do it.  The end result was that nobody got shore duty during his first enlistment, and an overwhelming percentage of first-termers did not re-enlist because of it. 
Since almost all the jobs being done by nuke women could be done by non-nukes, and because of the unhealthy effect they had on retention and morale, they just stopped signing them up.

At some point, they started enlisting female nukes again.  Because they can go to sea on carriers, they don't have such a negative effect on sea-shore rotation.

[s_Phoenix]

Sorry  beer court but there still missing up that to.  If a female gets pregant she gets shipped of the ship first chance they have.  We wont go to sea with a pregant  female because they cant provide medical for them in the worst case.  Therefor they go to shore billets asap (all the easy one that eveyone wants).  The guys have to wait to be allowed to proto or A / power school. 

That and it leaves us short handed since they have started combining watches on cvn they think we nead fewer personel and it only gets worse. 

And yes i'm in a bad mood about a female on my ship that does $hit and is getting a good deal.  She got herself sent to etms (very good maintains school) and  dint know $hit before and knows even less after.  And now she is has gotten herself put in charge of our maintains room and said that she's not going to allow us to play video game in there anymore. 

[taterhead]

Is your recruiter MM1 (SW) Doug Baker?

We served together on the Reagan.

I was wondering where he went afterwards...

[jayratch]

gato-rajo: Enough has been said about females, as far as I know the big problem is finding females who are interested, and it's hard to design accomodations for just a few.  You may meet some negative attitudes down here just because the military is still so predominantly male that we're not 100% used to you.  There are 3 females in my class, two of whom had major harassment problems in A-school, but the command has taken care of them and many policies are in place to help them; there are a lot of people who feel it's almost unfair what a "good deal" females get in this program.  Personally, I can't see why you'd want to join the Navy if you don't get the chance to go on a sub, but that's just me

Danielson: You have no guaranty of being an ET, so do yourself a favor and don't lock yourself in mentally.  All of the jobs have their perks: MMs get E4 quicker, and spend less time here; ETs get higher reenlistment bonuses, and do less physical work in the fleet.  Don't think if you're an ET you'll never turn a wrench, though. 

The Navy has likely already decided what you are, but there's no way you'd have been told by now.  When you find out in week 5 of boot camp, be grateful for whichever it is.  During the ET-only portion of A-school there was a lot of "Why didn't I take the blue pill" mentality, so don't think it's all roses and violets.  But it's worth it. 

So.. have fun.  And take what they give you and be happy with it, because you will only be happy here if you choose to.

[taterhead]

ETs get higher reenlistment bonuses, and do less physical work in the fleet. 

Yes and no.  I maxed out as an MM on my Zone B reenlistment (60k)and am looking forward to doing it on Zone C(100k).  The cap on the bonus really nullifies any big discrepancy.  Maybe there is a difference at Zone A.

As far as less physical work, you got that right

[s_Phoenix]

Hey tater didnt doug go to big E.

The simplest diff is em work on motors and cleans salinity cells (thing that check how clean water is).

Et's work on curcuit cards and pressure dectors.

Both stand watch in places that are ac.

MM work on machines/valves  and stand watch  in 100+ degree plant

[taterhead]

Hey tater didnt doug go to big E.

The simplest diff is em work on motors and cleans salinity cells (thing that check how clean water is).

Et's work on curcuit cards and pressure dectors.

Both stand watch in paces that are ac.

MM work on machines/valves  and stand watch  in 100+ degree plant

I know that he went to the big E, then came over to precom the Reagan.

From there, not sure.

[s_Phoenix]

Ya, and doug went back to Big E, to be a plant chief.  I'll ask monday at work to make sure.

[HarleyNukeWife]

To answer the girls as nukes thing - yes they can.  my hub has been working with girls since he arrived on the Ike in 1994.  His first deployment was the first with females on board.  there are problems, yes.  if the girls do their jobs and well most people are fine with it.  if a girl gets pregnant while on sea-duty she'll take some serious heat, from serious about the navy girls as well as the guys.  as in a lot of fields that are male dominated you will get looked at a bit more intensely.  if one chick in the dept has screwed up (no matter if 25 guys have), the next girl will have a tougher row. 

hub is an EM.  He has stood many watches not in the AC.  Good luck in your choice.

[_ELT_]

In the event that you are not past bootcamp already...

1 - you don't have to decide if you're going surface or sub until you get through A school, at least - maybe even prototype.  They will ask for "sub vols"

2 - I've known three guys who each came in under the "buddy system" Not one of the three made it past bootcamp (if that far) in the same division/school/etc. as their "buddy".  It doesn't work like they tell you - needs of the navy...not needs of your lonliness...

[taterhead]

Fast attack (SSN) subs are pretty tight spaces.  I have had the opportunity to crawl around on them here at PEarl Harbor.

I can't get over :

How you have to turn sideways to get 2 people down the p-way. 

3 sailors, 2 beds.  I am not a math major, but I count one bed short.  Not on carriers.  We even have extra racks.

Breathing recycled fart air.

You guys can wear sneakers and grow beards all you want, I'll take the wide open spaces of the carrier life.

Hats off to the sub guys.  I am not cut out for it!

[jarad2002]

Why get talked into Nuke at all?  Research all the fields and take the one that is right for you.  There is a saying that I really like "choose your rate, choose your fate".   Rates determine a lot of factors for a quality of life.  Decide if you want to go subs, don't let someone else pressure you into it, even if they mean well.  Carriers look pretty decent to me, but that also means that they look decent to a lot of people and when that happens it usually means less advancement opportunity, less incentive to retain you, and less opportunity to excel. Nuclear power on a sub is different in one major fact:  there is less of you assigned to it than on a carrier.  Think about what implications this has as far as leave, scheduling maintenance, etc.  Nuclear power needs to be a career choice that you want, not something someone else wants.   I have never regretted my decisions for going into nuclear power and being on subs, I have a lot of medals and good memories to go with it, however to make any decision of this magnitude requires that you first understand the magnitude of this decision and are comfortable with it.  In order to make sure we are staying in topic here, think of it as a K sub shell electron as opposed to an L shell electron where the K sub shell electron works 2N*2 and the L shell electron works 2N*2/(80 people on the carrier)..
MMC/SS USN (ret)

[TheEngineer]

  In order to make sure we are staying in topic here, think of it as a K sub shell electron as opposed to an L shell electron where the K sub shell electron works 2N*2 and the L shell electron works 2N*2/(80 people on the carrier)..
MMC/SS USN (ret)

Touche.

[mdgreen1]

  From my Power School class I noticed that a number of my surface fleet budies reupped while the sub
  guys seem to tend to do 6 and leave. This isnt a scientific study only an observation. There are a lot of
  pressures dealing with submarine life or military life in general surface fleets specifically carriers have more
  means or distractions from these pressures. The entire engineering department on a sub is smaller than one
  nuke division on a carrier. Which boils down to responsibility.

  But you can go to sub prototype S5G near IF, if you dont like the physical sub atmosphere go surface.

  Big thing is I am 6'1 and I bumped my head quite a bit in engine rooom, and hatchways.

[Marlin]

    Big thing is I am 6'1 and I bumped my head quite a bit in engine rooom, and hatchways.

   That was the height of the most lumps on my boats. Anything shorter missed most protrusions and anything taller was bent over already in over half of the boat. We had someone laid out on the deck every few months or so usually from drills and running down the passages. Emergency breathing manifolds were the primary culprits.
   I don't mean to be cruel but if you have a problem with picking up the load, subs are not for you, everyone wears a number of hats not only in the engineering department but for the boat as a whole. As for me I would not have wanted to tolerate the discipline on a larger ship. Discipline in any smaller command is much lower key, especially on subs. You are probably right about the retention of sub to surface. I'm glad I have my Navy/sub experience behind me and I am proud of it, however it is not a good life for a family. If you are in, the Navy is your primary focus and few spouses like the idea of being second place in your life.

[chuckhallett]

I'm going to tell you my story of how I got screwed out of ET school by this same recruiter ploy!  I went to the recruiter and asked if I could be a radioman.  He said do you want to operate the radios or fix them?  I said that I already operated them (been a Ham since 12) and would like to work on them.  He said you don't want to be a raidioman then, because that is just a yeoman that knows morse code.  He said "Son, you want to be an ET" and went on to explain how I'd go to ET "A" school for over a year before the fleet; only catch was it was a 6 year enlistment vice 4 years; you gotta pay back the navy's investment in your education.  I'm young (17) and I really want an education so I say sure, why not!  Then he says, I got a better deal, another year of schooling for the same six year obligation, it's called Nuclear Power Program...  Well, since I'm going to give em two years, I'd like to get two years back, so I sign up.

Bootcamp; Aced the ET selection test, did OK on mechanical apptitude.  Orders come to Machinist Mate A school, ?  I'm supposed to be an ET and besides MM school is only 5 months long, and I never even picked up a wrench in my entire life.  Tough Titties, my recruiter, and yours, forgot to tell me that if I had gone AECF, they had to give me ET school, or drop the extra two years.  At the time, they were recruiting nukes from every ET class, and I could have gotten NPS just by volunteering, with NO additional commitment.  BUT once I designated Nuke, they could, and did, make me any rate they needed.  Every nuke in my boot camp battalion went to MM school!

SOOOOOOO! Caveat Emptor.

Speaking of Caveats, I must disclose this happened to me in 1970.  Your results may vary.

I will also say, that I got over it, and once I got out (I never did enjoy being a Mechanic) and in the real nuke world, my MM experience was what the commercial nukes preferred.  ET's became Instrument & Control technicians; the former MMs ran the plants.  I'm in engineering now, but have been "nuking" it for over thirty five years now.  Haven't made under six figures in nearly twenty years.

I was surface (Enterprise, Virginia and South Carolina).  Visited my sons boat once U.S.S. Houston, and was glad I'd gone surface.

[ageoldtech]

Be wary of your recruiter. Get everything in writing and make copies. My 18 year old son just went through a bad experience with a marine recruiter. He didn’t take his fatherly advice of getting everything in writing and make copies. Let’s just say he be peeling taters.

[Marlin]

Be wary of your recruiter. Get everything in writing and make copies. My 18 year old son just went through a bad experience with a marine recruiter. He didn’t take his fatherly advice of getting everything in writing and make copies. Let’s just say he be peeling taters.

Very good advice but even this may not hold up to the ever present "needs of the service".

[gopmattb]

Hey everyone.  Inm a couple of months I leave for basic, after which I ship out for Nuke school in Charleston.  Just seeing if any current or former nukes have any advice?  Thanks a lot.

[Already Gone]

Study.
Ask for help when you need it.  You will get one of two things: a) help, or b) a lot more slack than the guy who is failing and never asked for help.
Do NOT get discouraged.  If I can graduate, you can too.
From the very minute you get off the bus at boot camp, try to see the fun in everything you do.
Good Luck

[graydragon67]

IF you are UNDER 21, DO NOT EVER EVER DRINK!!

That was/is the one thing that will get you kicked out of the program.  Along with Drugs and getting caught cheating on an exam. 

When I went thru Power School we lost 2/3s of the class and most of them was from underage drinking.

If you are OVER 21, DO NOT EVER EVER GIVE BOOZE TO SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT!!  Those underage guys told the command who got them the booze and those fellas went down too.  It is all an integrity thing. 

Other than that, study hard, try your best and hit that 'I BELIEVE BUTTON' on your forehead.

[Hoss]

While in the pipeline, keep your head down and powder dry.  Do your home work and put in the required hours (I was on voluntary 10's for all of A school and 90% of power school (boned the second RP test, got like a 3.0 on it 'cause a very good friend of mine had just offed himself and the 3.0 was so unusual for me that my section advisor put me on suggested 10's for two weeks)).  Regardless of what you may have learned in school, the terms 'voluntary' and 'suggested' are subjective the way the Nav uses them.  Essentially, they mean the same as 'mandatory' hours (ie. you have to put them in whether you want to or not, voluntary, huh!), except that you are higher in the food chain in class rankings (voluntary being the highest, then suggested, then mandatory, and finally ordered hours).  But regardless of your class standing, unless you want some plum assignment or school that you may or may not get due to the "needs of the Navy," if you pass all the way through to the fleet you will find that the 'Mando Commandos' get paid the same as the guys like me that were on voluntary 10's for the majority of the time.  Of course, while going to school, getting good grades does open up some nice perks.  Because I did so well in A school, I got picked up to teach in the lube oil lab for five months (of course your A school is totally different than mine was (Alas poor NFAS, I knew you well...)).  Also, because I did study hard when I did study, my good grades got me out of school an hour early on those days that the last hour was study hall (most days).  This allowed me to get back to the barracks and catch a nap before my classmates got out of school.  Of course, this may no longer be feasible with power school up in Charleston now (you'll have to ask someone that went there).  Either way, my good grades and early qualification at NPTU ensured that I had a choice when it came to becoming a staff pick up, becoming a subdude, or picking a school such as ELT school or welding school.  In reality, I turned down the SPU position and sub duty, but elected to go to ELT school.  But for me, because they needed people for both sub and spu billets, the staff put alot of pressure on me to volunteer.  For one of the few times in the Nav, I had the actual power to say no to something.  But this lesson will apply to all of your adult life whether in or out of the Nav.  The cliche is true, "Knowledge is Power."  After I got out and went to work for GE as a field engineer, by studying hard in GE's schools, busting my butt on the jobsite, and writing excellent reports, I got to the point that not only did I have my choice of assignments but I actually got to pick who management would hire as my boss once (we had a horrible boss at the time that needed to be replaced, I would have been first choice, but I did not want to move to Tampa, so our boss's boss called me to ask which of two of my peers that I would recommend for the job (pretty nice, I think)).

Ditto on graydragon: DO NOT DRINK!

Also, DO NOT LET GIRLS get in the way of school (met my first wife at prototype and she had a substantial affect on my ELT school grades (definitely not 2.5 and survive, but significantly lower that the >3.6 I had in power school (then again after bootcamp, A school, power school and prototype maybe I was just getting burned out (liar! she had you thinking with the wrong head (oh yeah, that's right)))).  Either way, girls will always be there and, although it seems forever, school will soon be over.

Finally, when the school day or workday is over and all of your study and work is done, get as far away from other squids and the Nav as you can.  Meet normal people, do normal things.  I know this is hard while in the pipeline, but when you get to the fleet don't forget there is life beyond the Nav.

[jdf2k5]

hey man, im 6 weeks away from finishing power school. im pretty sure i have some decent advice, for ET's at least.

under 21, dont drink. ever.ever.ever. easiest way to lose money, seen it 1000 times in the past year here.

work.grind.play.
put you job first, especially during the week. bust your ass and study. dont be afraid to ask instructors for help and dont just push what you will come to know as the "i believe" button. if you arent pressed, take saturdays for your own. 1 day without seeing rickover center is a blessing.

as far as preparation, calc is good to know, and be solid in alg for sure. if you know any electrical theory, forget it. the navy teaches you what they want you to know and how they want you to know it.

learn to roll with whatever they throw at you. makes your time go by faster. dont fight the little points of the program, because god knows that one word can make all the difference between full and no credit...argh.

good luck man. contact me at jdf2k5@hotmail.com for any in depth Q's about the program.

[adidas_2806]

..Wow......

So here I am, at 0430 surfing the web, and I come across a website that I have not visited in quite some time.......

And here I find the post I created >3years ago.  Hahaha , first of all let me thank all of you guys that responded to that post oh so long ago and tried to portray to me what it was going to be like.

Went to boot camp, went through the pipeline and graduated in class 0505. I was lucky enough to get my rating of choice, ET. Went to prototype, MTS 635 in S.C. I had decided at bootcamp that I wanted to be a submariner, mainly for the small community, and signed the vol. sheet as required, filled out the dream sheet in prototype for subs east coast, and what do I get? Yupp, carrier west coast. That would def. be my first run in with "Needs of the Navy" and its signifigance. I reported out here last Aug to CVN-72 (USS Abraham Lincoln).

And I have fully come to know and understand the terms stated throughout this website...Nubs....dink.....ge t hot...lookups...etc......

Though I am still currently happy with my decision. I came to this ship at probably the worst time....right as they come back from a westpac and go in for a DPIA. A billion NPMTT monitors later, 3.5 straight months of fast cruising, a few incident reports, a fired R.O., and were are now preparing for our second PORSE(extrapolate data from that tid bit what you will.....hence the new R.O.) We were supposed to be out of PSNS in early march, now were hgoping to be done in mid june..........

So yeah, pretty crappy time but still all in all glad I joined. It will get better...it always gets better...right!(lawl) Figured I'd drop a line and a thank you for the help and info I got back when.

If anyone new to the pipeline or might be coming in would like a fresh perspective on the job, feel free to contact me at broanuk@yahoo.com.

Respectfully,

ET2 Sean Broadwick

[slarmox2]

Adidas (ET2),

I too was just looking through posts I had made and found this. Here I am, MM2, with 3 years left in the Navy. It's been good, but I can't wait to get out.

Slarmox2

[jt52510]

i got a 2.65 in A-school. is it true that people who struggled in A-school tend to do better in power school?

[Roll Tide]

i got a 2.65 in A-school. is it true that people who struggled in A-school tend to do better in power school?

It is true that people that struggled in A-school will have to put in a lot of effort in NNPS to be successful. Since some have to get their wake-up call, it is an advantage.

[deltarho]

I'll tell you how it used to be back in 1991...

If an ET graduated NFAS with about a 2.72...100% passed NPS (no failures due to academics)
If an MM graduated NFAS with about a 3.3...100% passed NPS (no failures due to academics)
If an EM graduated NFAS with about a 3.13...100% passed NPS (no failures due to academics)

These scores are best to my recolection.  The differences were attributed to the length of NFAS and the correlating opportunity to nail down a good study routine.

At the time they were trying to figure out how to level the playing field.  Also, that was why the minimum score to pass was a 2.75 for Academic Boards.

[Imaginos]

Going boomer subs you have two options, Kings Bay, GA (right on the Florida state line and East coast), or Bangor, WA almost as northwest as one can get in the US with out living in Hawaii.

You did mean "without living in Alaska," right..? 

[deltarho]

You did mean "without living in Alaska," right..? 

Yeah, Hawaii is the southern most state in the United States of America!

[slarmox2]

You did mean "without living in Alaska," right..? 

Wow! If you would look at the time of night I made that post, you might cut me some slack. Yes, I meant Alaska.

[PWHoppe]

ahem!, could we please try and stay on topic and not drift off into a discussion of geography...as interesting as it is

your friendly neighborhood moderator