Author Topic: NY Prototype Staff Pickup Instructor (Read 31088 times)

TopNuke · « **on:** Feb 06, 2009, 10:46 »

I understand the tour will be for 24 months. Can the tour be extended past this 24 months at NY NPTU? Also If I could extend past the 24 months would I have to extend past the 6 years required to get the Staff Pickup Instructor orders.

HydroDave63 · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 07, 2009, 12:17 »

Quote from: TopNuke on Feb 06, 2009, 10:46

I understand the tour will be for 18 months. Can it be extended past this 18 months? What can I expect once the tour is over when I'm up for orders?

The sweet smell of salty air, and the dulcet sounds of seagulls......

93-383 · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 07, 2009, 01:01 »

You will get a sea tour. Where and on what are up to you, and the needs of the navy

pimpizhere18 · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 07, 2009, 10:10 »

The answer to your question is Yes, it can be extended past 24 months. In fact, a large majority of Staff Pick-Ups are being offered the opportunity (if youd like to call it that) to extend at prototype upon agreeing to become a SPU.

I've had more than one SPU come up to me and mention that they are being offered 6-12 month extensions.

goobs22xx · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 08, 2009, 07:10 »

I got involuntarily extended for 4 months.

You won't have to extend your seat tour as long as you meet the requirements of the page 13 you signed, saying you would have 36 months of time at a sea going command.

M1Ark · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 09, 2009, 11:49 »

Quote from: goobs22xx on Feb 08, 2009, 07:10

I got involuntarily extended for 4 months.

You won't have to extend your seat tour as long as you meet the requirements of the page 13 you signed, saying you would have 36 months of time at a sea going command.

Wow! I had to sign saying I'd do 24 months on a sea going command. I would have probably turned down the SPU offer if they required 36 months.

goobs22xx · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 10, 2009, 09:06 »

If it wasn't for my wife being able to finish her degree as well as my opportunity to apply directly to the STA-21 Nuke option, I would probably have passed as well.

But yes, it is definitely 36 months now.

number41 · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 11, 2009, 08:57 »

Yes, they are extending SPU's for more than 24 months because they are having a hard time getting sea returnee's to come work shift work for 40 months. Not to mention that life in NY sucks right now......................Anyw ay, as long as you REALLY pay attention to what your extension/page 13 says, you'll actually know what you're in for. I can't count the number of SPU's that worked for me that thought they were going to pull a fast one on the Nav. Here's a clue: it ain't going to happen. They WILL get what they want out of you. On the plus side, though; I can only think of a few SPU's who didn't get decent orders after prototype, and nearly EVERY SPU that I knew made Chief by their 10 year point. Just my $.02.

135i · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 02:53 »

As already stated you are required to have 36 months of sea time after your SPU tour. Up to one year extensions can be granted by the site. You're not likely to get more than than. Extensions are entirely dependent on manning at the time. For instance, right now at S8G we are undermanned MM's, about right on ET's and overmanned EM's.

number41 · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 05:02 »

The other thing to consider is that (in most cases) the NUB is going to get pressured into reenlisting no matter how hard he tries to resist. And (again, in most cases) the longer you wait past your 2 year point, the more money it will cost you on your final SRB.

AFT21 · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 19, 2009, 05:40 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Feb 19, 2009, 05:02

The other thing to consider is that (in most cases) the NUB is going to get pressured into reenlisting no matter how hard he tries to resist. And (again, in most cases) the longer you wait past your 2 year point, the more money it will cost you on your final SRB.

I would disagree about NUB's being pressured to reenlist. We generally pressured them to wait. Especially those that just wanted to buy something. You won't lose any SRB money by waiting, unless you wait until after your extension kicks in (4yr point). After that, they won't let you count the extension years in your SRB calculation.

MM1/SS

number41 · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 21, 2009, 07:46 »

I guess your experience at NNPTU was different than mine, then. I just left MARF last March, and I can remember sitting in the PMC's office with more than one SPU who thought they were not going to reenlist after they had signed a pg 13 saying they would. I'm pretty sure what I saw was the definitioin of "pressure to reenlist."

JustinHEMI05 · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 22, 2009, 05:30 »

I think yinz are talking about two different things.

Justin

number41 · « **Reply #13 on:** Feb 25, 2009, 08:57 »

Yeah Justin, maybe so. Re-reading it now, I'm assuming that he's talking about boat NUB's being persuaded to wait until their 4 year point to make a decision. I'd agree with that totally, but you and I both know that NNPTU Ny lays the pressure on when they get a smart-ass SPU trying to play the system.

jim2752 · « **Reply #14 on:** Feb 27, 2009, 05:47 »

Not to mention that life in NY sucks right now......................

What is wrong with the NY prototype right now? Are they broken?

TJ Nuke · « **Reply #15 on:** Feb 27, 2009, 06:00 »

Busted might be a better word for what happened to some.

In the process of being repaired. It appears they now have a date when they expect

to graduate sailors from prototype. Those who only had about 2 weeks to finish when the system went down.

Smooth Operator · « **Reply #16 on:** Feb 27, 2009, 06:33 »

One of the new SRO candidates just came from 8G and gave me the scoop. I think I uttered "No F-in Way" about a dozen times throughout his debrief.

Let's see: KAPL + Ike (i think) + Hartford = something systemic.

War Eagle · « **Reply #17 on:** Feb 27, 2009, 07:20 »

KAPL isn't as broke as people like to think. Someone is just looking for scapegoats. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy after a while; if you're told you suck enough times, you will suck.

Smooth Operator · « **Reply #18 on:** Feb 27, 2009, 08:12 »

I am sure, most of my reactions were to what the staff guys have to deal with now.

number41 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 08:26 »

War Eagle, I just came from there, and I don't want to upset you, but you are dead wrong. There are some REALLY good people at NNPTU NY, but they do not define KAPL and that place is broken; just ask any number of people on this forum that have been stationed there. Some of it has to do with being beaten down, but alot of it has to do with how $hitty 90% of the civilians are and how hamstrung the Navy is with regards to running that site and maintaining standards. You want proof, Charleston doesn't have nearly the same problems NY has and it's all because they run those Prototypes as BOATS, not SHIPYARDS.......Anyway, I digress. NY is still a great place in my opinion, but it could be much better if they got rid of the Unions and the majority of the civilians and let the Navy run it properly.

Edited to remove specific plant information.

Gamecock · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 09:23 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Mar 02, 2009, 08:26

War Eagle, I just came from there, and I don't want to upset you, but you are dead wrong. There are some REALLY good people at NNPTU NY, but they do not define KAPL and that place is broken; just ask any number of people on this forum that have been stationed there. Some of it has to do with being beaten down, but alot of it has to do with how $hitty 90% of the civilians are and how hamstrung the Navy is with regards to running that site and maintaining standards. You want proof, Charleston doesn't have nearly the same problems NY has and it's all because they run those Prototypes as BOATS, not SHIPYARDS.......Anyway, I digress. NY is still a great place in my opinion, but it could be much better if they got rid of the Unions and the majority of the civilians and let the Navy run it properly.

Edited to remove specific plant information.

I know when I taught at NNPTC, I always thought the KAPL civilians going through were a cut above their Bettis counterparts.

goobs22xx · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 02, 2009, 10:32 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Feb 21, 2009, 07:46

I guess your experience at NNPTU was different than mine, then. I just left MARF last March, and I can remember sitting in the PMC's office with more than one SPU who thought they were not going to reenlist after they had signed a pg 13 saying they would. I'm pretty sure what I saw was the definitioin of "pressure to reenlist."

The page 13 doesn't say you will reenlist. It says you have to extend or reenlist to have at least 36 months of sea time. Since I made it through the pipeline with no major holds (ie: T-Track), I could've extended for 2-3 months vice reenlisting and meeting the requirement.

Between the money and the aspirations to qualify EWS on my boat, I reenlisted. Now I'll have right at 5 years on my boat....ick.

War Eagle · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 03, 2009, 08:11 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Mar 02, 2009, 08:26

War Eagle, I just came from there, and I don't want to upset you, but you are dead wrong. There are some REALLY good people at NNPTU NY, but they do not define KAPL and that place is broken; just ask any number of people on this forum that have been stationed there. Some of it has to do with being beaten down, but alot of it has to do with how $hitty 90% of the civilians are and how hamstrung the Navy is with regards to running that site and maintaining standards. You want proof, Charleston doesn't have nearly the same problems NY has and it's all because they run those Prototypes as BOATS, not SHIPYARDS.......Anyway, I digress. NY is still a great place in my opinion, but it could be much better if they got rid of the Unions and the majority of the civilians and let the Navy run it properly.

Edited to remove specific plant information.

I just left there in October and I worked with all levels of management. I'm not going to get into specifics, but the problem is a bit more complicated than "90% of the civilians being ****". The civilian leadership is not allowed to make their own decisions about anything without being second guessed. Over time, that leads to the negative atmosphere and perceived lack of civilian leadership that the Navy staff sees. Anyways, I disagree with you that I am dead wrong. I dealt directly with the management every day; you were in section.

number41 · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 03, 2009, 08:06 »

Quote

I just left there in October and I worked with all levels of management. I'm not going to get into specifics, but the problem is a bit more complicated than "90% of the civilians being ****". The civilian leadership is not allowed to make their own decisions about anything without being second guessed. Over time, that leads to the negative atmosphere and perceived lack of civilian leadership that the Navy staff sees. Anyways, I disagree with you that I am dead wrong. I dealt directly with the management every day; you were in section.

You think it's frustrating dealing with that as a civilian? You should try being a senior Navy Operator in that environment. Our job was to train students to be ready to go to sea, not how to interpret a PTM in order to fight with plant management about how the students should be trained. Granted, I know NAVSEA directed ALOT of the actions of the civilians, but most of the senior sea returnees there KNEW how to be successful at operating a boat and KNEW how to get the students to the right place. But when you have to convince the civilians on the proper way of training people to be sailors, well you get my point. Anyway, I digress. The scoop that I've gotten is that they have gone a long way towards getting rid of the people causing the problems, but I bet it takes them a LONG time to get anywhere near where it should be.

Actually, I just left there last year too, so it's possible that we know each other & alot of the same people. PM if you want to get specific.

War Eagle · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 04:56 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Mar 03, 2009, 08:06

You think it's frustrating dealing with that as a civilian? You should try being a senior Navy Operator in that environment. Our job was to train students to be ready to go to sea, not how to interpret a PTM in order to fight with plant management about how the students should be trained. Granted, I know NAVSEA directed ALOT of the actions of the civilians, but most of the senior sea returnees there KNEW how to be successful at operating a boat and KNEW how to get the students to the right place. But when you have to convince the civilians on the proper way of training people to be sailors, well you get my point. Anyway, I digress. The scoop that I've gotten is that they have gone a long way towards getting rid of the people causing the problems, but I bet it takes them a LONG time to get anywhere near where it should be.

Actually, I just left there last year too, so it's possible that we know each other & alot of the same people. PM if you want to get specific.

I wasn't a civilian there; I was the Senior Evaluation Officer with the PPEA and a served submarine Engineer. Believe me, for many of the civilians it wasn't a question of growing a set. Many, many times they did not have the latitude to make their own decisions or adopt recommendations from the deck plate. I'm not making excuses, there's a lot more many of them could have done to improve standards and culture. Adopting more Navy practices would have been a great start.

NukeLDO · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 04, 2009, 06:26 »

Quote from: War Eagle on Mar 04, 2009, 04:56

I wasn't a civilian there; I was the Senior Evaluation Officer with the PPEA and a served submarine Engineer. Believe me, for many of the civilians it wasn't a question of growing a set. Many, many times they did not have the latitude to make their own decisions or adopt recommendations from the deck plate. I'm not making excuses, there's a lot more many of them could have done to improve standards and culture. Adopting more Navy practices would have been a great start.

Agree. Look around and see who is standing SSW. Its not Navy. You can give a college graduate, qualified EOOW, 2 year NPE all the training in the world, and he still won't stand SSW like a fleet served LT.

JustinHEMI05 · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 08:46 »

Well that certainly explains a lot.

Justin

HydroDave63 · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 08:55 »

Quote from: NukeLDO on Mar 04, 2009, 06:26

Agree. Look around and see who is standing SSW. Its not Navy. You can give a college graduate, qualified EOOW, 2 year NPE all the training in the world, and he still won't stand SSW like a fleet served LT.

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

War Eagle · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 09:04 »

Quote from: HydroDave63 on Mar 05, 2009, 08:55

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

I recommended that a few times while I was there. Maybe not an entire sea tour, but long enough to qualify EOOW.

JustinHEMI05 · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 09:23 »

Quote from: War Eagle on Mar 05, 2009, 09:04

I recommended that a few times while I was there. Maybe not an entire sea tour, but long enough to qualify EOOW.

+1 but no one listened to me anyway, except for when they needed someone to stand that 100th EDO watch.

number41 · « **Reply #30 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 07:00 »

We'll see. It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts. He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now. Which would probably be better for everyone. The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

Preciousblue1965 · « **Reply #31 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 07:32 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Mar 05, 2009, 07:00

We'll see. It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts. He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now. Which would probably be better for everyone. The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

Well you can forget the whole union thing ever going away under the Obama watch. Unions esure that ~~imcompetents~~ hard workers get to keep their job even if they are a net drain on their employer. Not to mention that ~~bums~~ union workers are only allowed to do exactly their job title and nothing more.

I apologize to those union workers who are actually competent and hard working. I got a really bad taste for some unions during numerous shipyard availabilities and the utter cluster@#$@ that was associated with it. The fact that it takes 22 union workers to do what it would take 3 navy guys to do is completely stupid and wasts money.

NukeLDO · « **Reply #32 on:** Mar 05, 2009, 09:10 »

Quote from: McLovin #41 on Mar 05, 2009, 07:00

We'll see. It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts. He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now. Which would probably be better for everyone. The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

Things were changing prior to the election....Bettis is now the sole prime contractor, and KAPL employees are being absorbed into the new organization with a new name. Don't know if that's the way the Navy wanted it, or if Lockheed wanted out of the prime contractor business.
Let me guess PB, you spent some time at a private SY in VA?

Quote from: HydroDave63 on Mar 05, 2009, 08:55

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

While sea time is good, it'd also be very costly...wanna guess how much a SY rider on sea trials makes? And, just my opinion, the problem isn't academic rigor, its standards. The Navy has to instill those standards in the contractor personnel because they've never heard of the SORM or EDM, the IC Manual, etc. Once qualified and put in a position of authority within the crew structure, they need to fly under the wing of a Navy sea returnee for while. Stand SSW with the sea returnee LTs and STG-O. Learn the lingo and absorb the standards, learn what to look for, how to conduct a surveillance and grade an evolution, etc.

Preciousblue1965 · « **Reply #33 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 09:11 »

NukeLDO,
I didn't spend any time in a SY in VA but I did have numerous interactions with a SY from the left coast up in a certain wet corner of the US.

I think the epitome of inefficiency of that particular organization was that we had to rebuild a particularly large valve that took suction from the bilge. This valve was partially above and below the deckplate level. It took 3 yard guys to write the tagout, 2 guys to remove the deckplates that were in the way, 2 guys to take off the bolts, 4 guys to rig the valve out, 3 more guys to rebuild the valve, 4 guys to rig the valve back down, 3 guys to install the valve, 2 guys to reinstall the deckplates, 1 guy to paint the deckplate stantions, 1 guy to clear the tags, and 2 guys to test the valve, and 1 guy to finish off the paperwork.

However, somewhere after the SY guys put the valve in and the guys who were supposed to reinstall the deckplates, the guy who was supposed to paint the stantions gets there. Instead of saying "hey this isn't put back together yet, maybe I shouldn't paint it and let someone know that there is still something to be done" he instead puts on two thick coats of the two part bilge red paint, you know that really good hard stuff. It wasn't until we did a post work inspection that we found the problem. We asked the supervisor why his guys painted over something that clearly wasn't ready yet or why he didn't put the things back together(it was simply two bolts to put two pieces of metal together), he told us "He just does what he is told to do when he is told to do it. He isn't allowed to put bolts together, he is just a painter. The fastener guys are the ones who deal with bolts."

Same job, non-unionized work. 3-6 people total from start to finish, half the time. Most of the SY workers will tell you how they are scamming the system. They will slack off until their job becomes "critical path" which then makes their pay "time and a half". I have seen SY workers sleeping on the job. And none of these guys will ever get fired because they are unionized.

So that is why I have problems with unions.

Nuclear NASCAR · « **Reply #34 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 09:45 »

And the Union discussion is for the Gold Member section of the site. Please keep this in mind and Thanks in advance.

Preciousblue1965 · « **Reply #35 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 10:17 »

Quote from: Nuclear NASCAR on Mar 06, 2009, 09:45

And the Union discussion is for the Gold Member section of the site. Please keep this in mind and Thanks in advance.

Sorry I overshot the governor setting and fired off a salvo before I hit the overspeed trip.

Nuclear NASCAR · « **Reply #36 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 10:26 »

Normal for a Nuke. How else do we know the edge unless we take a step over it?

kp88 · « **Reply #37 on:** Mar 06, 2009, 02:37 »

Quote from: Preciousblue1965 on Mar 06, 2009, 09:11

So that is why I have problems with unions.

Understood, but…
Using the shipyard’s mandated place keeping instructions, the procedure was probably followed to the letter. If a Union suggested this sort of thing, the Company would laugh it out of town

number41 · « **Reply #38 on:** Mar 08, 2009, 06:39 »

Quote

because they've never heard of the SORM or EDM, the IC Manual, etc.

That hit the nail on the head as far as prototype is concerned. It always annoyed me that the Navy has processes in place to govern a lot of things that get totally f'd up at prototype. And guess where they're governed? In the SORM, EDM, EDOM, etc. But KAPL (and NAVSEA 08 especially) tended to use prototype as their own "prototype" for testing new ways of doing business. The end result always ended up being a bunch of staff guys being forced to do business under a set of rules that was unfamiliar and ineffective, when they knew a completely acceptable set of rules that worked just fine.

NukeLDO · « **Reply #39 on:** Mar 08, 2009, 10:32 »

^^^^Ding Ding Ding!

Wirebiter · « **Reply #40 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:38 »

Quote from: NukeLDO on Mar 08, 2009, 10:32

^^^^Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner!?!?

ohhh-ohhh, pick door number three!

deltarho · « **Reply #41 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 11:56 »

Quote from: Nuclear NASCAR on Mar 06, 2009, 10:26

Normal for a Nuke. How else do we know the edge unless we take a step over it?

My experience showed nukes always knew where "the line" was and normally raced to put all ten toes to the edges. This is what is commonly known as toeing the line. Then they kinda squatted as they brought both arms high into the air behind them. Suddenly, arms swung forward at the same time both legs were straightened==>just to see how far the broad jump would have them land. They usually stuck the landing and waited in place for the "applause." This was commonly known as "act and ask for forgiveness later."

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Author Topic: NY Prototype Staff Pickup Instructor (Read 31088 times)

TopNuke

pimpizhere18

M1Ark

number41

135i

number41

number41

JustinHEMI05

number41

number41

number41

JustinHEMI05

JustinHEMI05

number41

kp88

number41

Wirebiter