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womprat99

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Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« on: Apr 06, 2009, 08:55 »
Hello.  I'm a nuclear-trained Navy LT (~6.5 years) who dropped his letter and is getting out in December.  I do have some questions about civilian nuke plants and am looking for some general guidance.  I've looked around this site for a while, reading up on all the advice you have to offer.

Some background about me:  I was commissioned in 2003, went through the pipeline in Charleston, and served on the USS Philadelphia for three years.  I qualified EOOW and ENG there, and went to Navy Personnel Command in Millington, TN, which is where I am now.  I have a BS in Physics (University of Utah) and will complete a MS in Operations Management (University of Arkansas) in July.

The biggest question I have is where I would fit in with civilian power.  I've read up here, but I won't trouble you now with any questions about the jobs until I understand where in the civilian hierarchy I should be looking.

I am definitely interested in either the operations or HP fields, but am open to anything at this point.

Thanks for any help you can give.  I really appreciate it.

-Mike


JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #1 on: Apr 06, 2009, 11:42 »
Instant SRO.

Justin

Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #2 on: Apr 07, 2009, 12:11 »
Instant SRO.

Jason

Khak-Hater

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #3 on: Apr 07, 2009, 09:50 »
Just to present some other choices, DOE, as well as some DOE contractors [particularly at the Nuclear Weapons facilities (e.g., Y-12 in Oak Ridge)], loves to hire ex-Navy Nuke zeros.  Pay is comparable to [or better than] commercial power, not to mention that stress and working hours are less demanding.  Also, if you don't mind living in northern VA or southern MD, the Defense Nuclear Facility Safety Board [DNFSB], the group that provides independent oversight of the DOE, has a strong preference for ex-Navy Nuke zeros.

Good luck [you frigging khak],

mgm
« Last Edit: Apr 07, 2009, 02:11 by Khak-Hater »

Fermi2

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #4 on: Apr 07, 2009, 04:52 »
A Janitor.

Mike

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #5 on: Apr 07, 2009, 11:58 »
 ;D

mikewoodorion

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #6 on: Apr 14, 2009, 05:57 »
I am a recruiter that supports the nuke and conventional power industry. I would say you are qualfied for the SRO training pipeline and possible for a maintenance role, depending on your experience on the boat. Good luck in your search.

Mike

Fermi2

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #7 on: Apr 14, 2009, 07:23 »
And I'm a real life qualified Shift Manager on both BWR and PWRs. A janitor.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #8 on: Apr 14, 2009, 08:28 »
 ;D

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #9 on: Apr 15, 2009, 07:50 »
I'm no expert on this of course....but that has never stopped me from opening my mouth before....but this is what I have seen here......

1.  We have a former sub ELT that  is an NLO at Limerick--Jason K
2.  We have a former T-EOOW qualified enlisted guy at NPTU that was hired as an instant SRO--JustinHEMI
3.  We have a nuke JO who just recently got hired in Engineering--NukeNTO

Those are just the guys who frequently post here.

So, while I would agree that you that are qualified to be a janitor, I would surmise based only on my observations from this site that you are likely qualified to do other things in the nuclear industry as well.

Cheers,
GC
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #10 on: Apr 15, 2009, 11:39 »
Hey, I agree with you that is why I said instant SRO! But you can't help but to laugh at Mike sometimes hence my grinny faces!  ;D

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #11 on: Apr 15, 2009, 12:20 »
A Janitor.

Mike

It's nothing personal..... it's just that, well, BZ has forgot more than us humanoids will ever learn, and we won't be as good as he once was!!   :P

Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #12 on: Apr 15, 2009, 05:48 »
What quite possibly BZ was implying was that no litany of Navy qualifications, regardless of prestige, qualifies you to be anything in Commericial nuclear power other than a candidate.

You don't know until your final cert and then what the final cert really means is that you are qualified to learn your job.




JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #13 on: Apr 15, 2009, 07:18 »
Well said Jason. I think that is what Mike was saying in his one word answer too.  8)

Fermi2

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #14 on: Apr 15, 2009, 09:13 »
Exactly,

The same as my beating my 5 feet 1 wife in one on one basketball in no way qualifies me to play in the NBA.
So I say, a Janitor.

Mike

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #15 on: Apr 16, 2009, 12:27 »
While I agree that the LT has the qualifications to be a janitor, his question was:

Quote
The biggest question I have is where I would fit in with civilian power.

And the answer should be that someone with a degree and successful completion of the naval nuclear pipeline, along with experience as an operator in the fleet should make him a very eligible candidate for an instant SRO class.

No company should look to hire him as a Janitor...  his experience and education certainly make him a more promising instant SRO candidate, with a higher chance of completing the program, than an engineer fresh out of school. 

Bill

M1Ark

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #16 on: Aug 01, 2009, 05:58 »
No company should look to hire him as a Janitor...  his experience and education certainly make him a more promising instant SRO candidate, with a higher chance of completing the program, than an engineer fresh out of school.  

Bill

Let me turn on my Broadzilla decoder ring.  I myself have worked for a better part of a decade with Broadzilla and have obtained 3 SRO's from three different utilities from 3 different NRC regions and I think what he is saying is that your navy experience does not mean a hill of beans in the commercial world.  I have sat through an license class with Broadzilla as well as JO's (ROTC, Navy & Merchant Marine Academy), prototype NPE's, fresh out of college folks, 20 year nuke command master chiefs, navy mustangs, Thomas Edison mail order degree folks, 6 year and out MM/EM/ET, JustinHemi, women, men , etc.  Success or failure is unpredictable and usually quite surprising.  Qualifying as an instant SRO vs. passing the course vs. being capable of being an SRO let alone a good one is not pre-destined as some noobs might think based on degree/experience/rank in the navy.  There have been Navy Senior officers, PhD's, ME's and a litany of engineers that have worked for Broadzilla.  You must earn your keep in Broadzilla's world.

« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2009, 02:58 by M1Ark »

Offline SWO

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #17 on: Feb 24, 2010, 09:26 »
your navy experience does not mean a hill of beans in the commercial world.

Busch league statement  8)

So let me get this straight ... experience in naval nuclear power in no way helps you qualify to work in civilian nuclear power as opposed to say, someone with a mail-order degree and no experience?

Yeah, and my grandma is the friggin' Queen of England. You've got to be kidding me, guy! While the LT's qualifications in the Navy aren't some sort of entitlement that automatically qualify him for anything in the commercial world, you've got to be at least a little bit off-center if you honestly think that success with the nuclear Navy isn't a strong indicator of the ability to replicate that success in the commercial world.
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2010, 09:39 by SWO »
"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." - Mark Twain

Fermi2

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #18 on: Feb 24, 2010, 11:43 »
Busch league statement  8)

So let me get this straight ... experience in naval nuclear power in no way helps you qualify to work in civilian nuclear power as opposed to say, someone with a mail-order degree and no experience?

Yeah, and my grandma is the friggin' Queen of England. You've got to be kidding me, guy! While the LT's qualifications in the Navy aren't some sort of entitlement that automatically qualify him for anything in the commercial world, you've got to be at least a little bit off-center if you honestly think that success with the nuclear Navy isn't a strong indicator of the ability to replicate that success in the commercial world.

He's right. You're bush league. A T Baller. Our training and standards are so far above what you've been exposed to you have less than a 50% chance of making it in the Major leagues.

I worked with M1Ark for over 10 years, he's one of the best the nuclear world has to offer.

You are qualified to be a janitor, that's about it.

Mike

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #19 on: Feb 24, 2010, 11:43 »
Busch league statement  8)

So let me get this straight ... experience in naval nuclear power in no way helps you qualify to work in civilian nuclear power as opposed to say, someone with a mail-order degree and no experience?

Yeah, and my grandma is the friggin' Queen of England. You've got to be kidding me, guy! While the LT's qualifications in the Navy aren't some sort of entitlement that automatically qualify him for anything in the commercial world, you've got to be at least a little bit off-center if you honestly think that success with the nuclear Navy isn't a strong indicator of the ability to replicate that success in the commercial world.

Statistically, Navy experience/success does no equate to commercial success. Your soapbox rant, while admirable due to its enthusiasm, has no basis in fact. m1ark's statement has statistics to back it.

*edited to add the quoted statement from SWO since Mike and I posted at the same time.
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2010, 11:45 by JustinHEMI »

number41

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #20 on: Feb 25, 2010, 12:49 »
Quote
He's right. You're bush league. A T Baller. Our training and standards are so far above what you've been exposed to you have less than a 50% chance of making it in the Major leagues.

I worked with M1Ark for over 10 years, he's one of the best the nuclear world has to offer.

You are qualified to be a janitor, that's about it.

Mike

I still call B.S. on this one.  I don't have my license yet, but I will soon.  Maybe being a qualified EOOW, EWS, etc doesn't "qualify" you for SRO or any other job in a civilian plant, but it gets you as close as you're going to get.  Never mind the fact that Mike, regardless of all his experience and training, doesn't know what the !@#k he's talking about.  Sure, every plant is different, but the civilian training programs that I have seen haven't been that much harder than college or the Navy nuke pipeline.  So, LT you can believe that you're qualified to be a janitor, or you can believe the guys that are actually recently out of the Nav and in an initial license program to become an SRO.......it isn't THAT hard.  If you want the straight dope, PM me.

Fermi2

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #21 on: Feb 25, 2010, 02:26 »
The fact is you don't have a license yet and the FACT is Naval Officers fail out at about a 50% rate. Ask the NRC, ask INPO.

He's qualified to be a janitor and YES our training programs are 578767898 harder than anything in the Navy.

Furthermore, Naval officers tend to have a hard time on shift and make more errors than other SROs.

Mike

number41

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #22 on: Feb 25, 2010, 05:29 »
Quote
The fact is you don't have a license yet and the FACT is Naval Officers fail out at about a 50% rate. Ask the NRC, ask INPO.
I am not/was not an officer, and regardless of what statistics you can throw out there, I contend that the 50% that fail out do so because they are lazy/unwilling to put in the required time, not because the Navy pipeline failed to prepare them for civilian power.  In our most recent SRO class which was comprised solely of previous licenses and upgrades from our plant, we have had one academic drop (and possibly another) who were both licensed at another plant for over 10 years.  However, the class with 15 DSRO's and NO previous licenses and NO previous commercial experience (12 are ex navy EOOW/EWS, 3 are NLO upgrades) just finished systems & GFES with an average of over 93%. 

Quote
YES our training programs are 578767898 harder than anything in the Navy
No it's not.  It's quite a bit DIFFERENT, but not that much harder.

Quote
Furthermore, Naval officers tend to have a hard time on shift and make more errors than other SROs.
That's a weak generalization.  Again, I defer to the fact that the ones who "have a hard time....and make more errors" probably sucked in the Navy also.
Regardless of how impossible you seem to think it is for ex-Navy guys to roll into a DSRO program and be successful, it is happening quite a bit these days.  What I don't understand is why you continue to make it your mission to discourage any new guys from trying the DSRO route.  I suppose you don't ever want to be able to retire or go on vacation because your plant is hopelessly strapped for licenses?  Regardless, I say that most GOOD, capable Navy operators with more than 6 years experience are good candidates for license class and probably are OVER qualified to be a non-licensed operator.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #23 on: Feb 25, 2010, 05:54 »
The fact is you don't have a license yet and the FACT is Naval Officers fail out at about a 50% rate. Ask the NRC, ask INPO.

He's qualified to be a janitor and YES our training programs are 578767898 harder than anything in the Navy.

Furthermore, Naval officers tend to have a hard time on shift and make more errors than other SROs.

Mike

That's not disrespect. It's the truth. Never once did I knock his service, his qualifications are just what I stated. He needs to hear it straight up, statistics show 77% of the Naval Officers who try commercial power as an Operator fail out of the training program because it's too fast paced.

Mike

So what is it..

50% or 77%

Someone might want to re-check their statistics...they are losing credibility.
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

number41

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #24 on: Feb 25, 2010, 06:31 »
Quote
That's not disrespect. It's the truth. Never once did I knock his service, his qualifications are just what I stated. He needs to hear it straight up, statistics show 77% of the Naval Officers who try commercial power as an Operator fail out of the training program because it's too fast paced.

Mike


So what is it..

50% or 77%

HA!  Maybe the percentage that drops out went from 77% to 50% in the last six months.  Sounds like Ex Navy LT's are getting 54% better at making it thru this impossibly difficult licensing program every year!

Offline War Eagle

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #25 on: Feb 25, 2010, 09:17 »
The throughput issue may also be a product of substandard training programs. Just putting that out there.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #26 on: Feb 25, 2010, 08:02 »
The whole point that Mike is trying to make, and he is correct, that your quals and experience in the Navy DO NOT in any way indicate your success potential as an instant SRO as compared to someone pulled up out of engineering, for example. The issue he has (correct me if I am wrong Mike) is when someone with certain quals coming out of the Navy has an expectation or entitlement feeling towards being an instant SRO, and look down on NLO as a possible path. The statistics are that 50%ish of ex Navy nukes do not make it through the program, either by their own drive/motivation or poor training at the station. Peach Bottom defies the statistics and we have a 100% pass rate due to an excellent training program. However, there is an individual component that plays heavily because a large part of ILT is self taught. So there is shared blame as to the 50% over all industry fail rate. There are some stations who's training philosophy is to put up 20 and hope to get 10 licenses. That is an old school way of thinking, but the fact of the matter is that it takes place out there. And what Mike is saying, is left to their own devices (ie self taught ILT), a Navy nuke has no better chance of passing than anyone else.

And I do disagree with Seth, this training is much harder than the Navy pipeline overall. Sure, GF and systems is standard power school stuff, but he also hasn't done his simulator training yet. Again I say, this is where the men are separated from the boys. This is where an instant like me, who has no clue how to even handle a vanilla scram in the plant, has to learn how to handle a full power ATWS with no level indication while there is a leak into the drywell with a bypassed containment in 6 months. Trust me, its hard. (But extremely fun and exciting).

What it all comes down to is a combination of the training program, which unfortunately is lacking at some stations, and the drive and ability of the individual. And frankly, many ex Navy people aren't up to the task of being a CRS in a nuclear power plant. And even if they do squeek by, their first mistake in requal and they will be sent to a desk.

Justin

adrianI

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #27 on: Feb 25, 2010, 08:33 »
These posts are so harsh(and hilarious) towards people getting out of the Navy. Part of the problem is that for the most part the Navy people don't know any different. When I got out of the Navy from prototype I also(incorrectly) had the attitude that becoming an NLO after being qualified EOOW as an enlisted guy was a step down. Not sure how to do it but the Navy guys need some more education on civilian nuclear power. We also that thought that SRO was going to be easy because of multiple choice exams,lol, boy were we wrong!

Offline SWO

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #28 on: Feb 25, 2010, 09:03 »
You'll be hard-pressed to convince any self-respecting adult (and most reasonable employers) that they might somehow succeed in a civilian job in spite of their military service, which is what seems to be the general tone of this conversation.

No one is arguing that passing through the NNPP pipeline makes you (1) qualified to start tomorrow as an SRO or (2) better than the next man if you become one. No one. What is being said is that prior strong job performance would seem to indicate some promise of future achievement. Of course, that's information that the recruiter and the employer are paid to uncover in order to eventually funnel that man or woman into the place where they have the greatest chance for success.

The LT simply asked what he'd be qualified to do in the civilian world, as in, "What opportunities might be on par with my prior experience?" It's likely he doesn't know much about the industry and would love just a little info about the varying job opportunities that may be available to him at some point.

Maybe we can try and make this informative instead of just generating numerous parallel rants about the inherent ineptitude & laziness that ravages the likes of myself and my peers? Perhaps we all can just /rant and get back on track...
"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." - Mark Twain

cruzcampo

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #29 on: Feb 25, 2010, 09:43 »
Wouldn't the more sugar coated way to say this all be something like:

"If you have the humility to admit you know nothing and the drive and determination to buckle down and learn something, then NLO at the least and SRO at the most.  If you don't then janitor."

JsonD13

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #30 on: Feb 25, 2010, 10:20 »
My word of advice is do not take a job as a supervisor that you were a Div-o or PA for in the Navy (i.e. get into radiation protection supervision because you were a CRA).  I am a RCT and the way we do things is in no similar fashion to the way things were done in the Navy.  Without any related (i.e. Health Physics for radiation protection) degree or training, the lack of technical training you will recieve where you work will put you on a lower knowledge level than those who work for you.  You need to make desicions that are based off of knowledge and sound judgement, and if you dont have the background you are not qualified.

Operations is a different beast since they give force feed you TONS of technical training (IMHO those who pass learn not to puke).  Other trades not so much.


Jason

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #31 on: Feb 25, 2010, 11:55 »
You'll be hard-pressed to convince any self-respecting adult (and most reasonable employers) that they might somehow succeed in a civilian job in spite of their military service, which is what seems to be the general tone of this conversation.

No one is arguing that passing through the NNPP pipeline makes you (1) qualified to start tomorrow as an SRO or (2) better than the next man if you become one. No one. What is being said is that prior strong job performance would seem to indicate some promise of future achievement. Of course, that's information that the recruiter and the employer are paid to uncover in order to eventually funnel that man or woman into the place where they have the greatest chance for success.

The LT simply asked what he'd be qualified to do in the civilian world, as in, "What opportunities might be on par with my prior experience?" It's likely he doesn't know much about the industry and would love just a little info about the varying job opportunities that may be available to him at some point.

Maybe we can try and make this informative instead of just generating numerous parallel rants about the inherent ineptitude & laziness that ravages the likes of myself and my peers? Perhaps we all can just /rant and get back on track...

Most of us told him directly (in less than 3 words) what his qualifications would allow him to be a candidate for. You chose to revive a dead topic to attack one sentence that was already explained.

In the spirit of getting back on topic;

His navy experience and quals will allow him to be an instant SRO candidate.
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2010, 02:43 by JustinHEMI »

co60slr

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #32 on: Feb 26, 2010, 05:32 »
...prior strong job performance would seem to indicate some promise of future achievement. Of course, that's information that the recruiter and the employer are paid to uncover in order to eventually funnel that man or woman into the place where they have the greatest chance for success.
The point here SWO is that one's shoulder boards are not always as predictive in the commercial nuclear world as your posting "seems" to suggest.  (The evils of Internet forums/Email).  In fact, one might read some of the recent Navy Times articles and wonder what the heck senior enlisted and LTs are doing to earn their paychecks these days.  We'll save that parallel for a rainy day...

Also implied but not yet stated is that the actual Hiring Nuclear Manager that makes the decision on a candidate...in the nuclear world...is likely a MM2, ET2, etc that left the Navy in 1990 and knows EXACTLY the calibre of "LT" that HE experienced and could care less about your shoulder boards.  In fact, depending on HIS background with the military, a transitioning officer's arrogant tone/cockiness could have one looking for work elsewhere.  I've seen it happen.  Again...that can happen anywhere though.

So, when one is told to check their shoulder boards and "small reactor" at the door leaving the Navy, they're saying that humility goes a long way in the Commercial World...especially since everyone pretty much starts over as a NUB.  High paying NUB in some cases...but a NUB none the less.  It's my opinion, even in this forum, if you have to use your college degree, title, applaud points, gold stars, etc to validate your opinion or point, then it starts off invalid.   That's the way nuclear power truly works...the technology we serve doesn't care about our titles.

And yes, the SRO ILT pass rates are horrible...at some plants.   I've heard of 100% pass rates to 0% pass rates.   However, any Training Manager reading this that has a 0% pass rate...sorry, but that grade is YOURS, not the candidate's, and certainly not the Navy's!   TMI thought their operators could take the panel after a quick 3-month fam course....we all know that didn't work out to well for the world.   Since then, the NRC continues to "continually improve" the training requirements.   It doesn't matter if we like it or not...or like the exam questions or not...that's the way it is, for now.  And...don't tell me the NNPP Training Program is flawless.  I know better.

It's a great time for Nukes (of all ranks) to transition to Commercial....the LT doesn't need to lurk here to figure that out.  If the LT is worth his pay, he'll have contacted the bosses of the posters here to get more precise information and stats.  He will likely understand today that the disdain for "Instant SROs" is not shared by all managers. True, some companies do NOT hire Direct SROs...instead, they seem to have a healthy mentoring/training program that gets their AUOs ready for the Control Room. Perhaps we all agree that is the IDEAL route. Otherwise, I continue to see a steady stream job announcements weekly from Nuclear HR Reps that I networked with on LinkedIn that are looking for ex-Navy people for Direct SRO.

So, I wonder why we don't see more HR Reps here jumping into the middle of these "my reactor is bigger than your reactor" conversations?  <grin>   It's like a nuclear version of "Survivor" here...e.g., who is Broadzilla going to vote off Nukeworker.com this week?   (Meanwhile, HIS company is one that is undermanned...even more so now that he retired, I assume).  It's not too different than a heated debate during a mid-watch in EOS...is it SWO?

Life goes on...

Co60

number41

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #33 on: Feb 26, 2010, 07:53 »
MY final post and then I'm done with this one ;D  I'll conceed that nothing you have done in the Nav makes you qualified for anything in the civilian world.  But it does give you the best intro course that you are likely to get.  My real issue here is one that SWO has introduced.  Why in the world does it seem like every new guy that comes here looking for info/assistance gets blasted (by a select few) simply because he mentions that he's qualified EOOW/EWS, etc?  Are those not relevent facts?  Is someone here implying that a Navy Lt has the same knowledge level or ability as some kid directly out of college or even high school?  I don't believe that.  Regardless, there are quite a few people that come here simply trying to learn about civilian power so that they can try to plan for their future.  They need the truth about how civilian power works and how their current situation applies.  Maybe it's your opinion that navy quals have no bearing on their ability to qualify in a civilian plant, but they certainly do not need to be told that they are qualified to be a janitor.  Maybe it's that nuke mentality to eat your own children or pick-on the weak new "nub", but that's a load of Horse$hit and everybody knows it.  Bottom line is civilian power needs all of the good new people that it can find and immediately trying to discourage people on here doesn't help anybody.  I know that when I first started coming here I got the same attitute.  I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.  I don't expect anybody here to sugar coat it and tell me that I should apply for a Plant Manager position as a 6 year MM2, but I also don't expect to be told that I'm not qualified for anything in a civilian plant, because that simply isn't true, and Shift Manager or not, treating somebody like that just because they don't know any better is just plain wrong.

co60slr

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #34 on: Feb 26, 2010, 09:49 »
MY final post and then I'm done with this one ;D  I'll conceed that nothing you have done in the Nav makes you qualified for anything in the civilian world.  But it does give you the best intro course that you are likely to get.  My real issue here is one that SWO has introduced.  Why in the world does it seem like every new guy that comes here looking for info/assistance gets blasted (by a select few) simply because he mentions that he's qualified EOOW/EWS, etc?  Are those not relevent facts?  Is someone here implying that a Navy Lt has the same knowledge level or ability as some kid directly out of college or even high school?  I don't believe that.  Regardless, there are quite a few people that come here simply trying to learn about civilian power so that they can try to plan for their future.  They need the truth about how civilian power works and how their current situation applies.  Maybe it's your opinion that navy quals have no bearing on their ability to qualify in a civilian plant, but they certainly do not need to be told that they are qualified to be a janitor.  Maybe it's that nuke mentality to eat your own children or pick-on the weak new "nub", but that's a load of Horse$hit and everybody knows it.  Bottom line is civilian power needs all of the good new people that it can find and immediately trying to discourage people on here doesn't help anybody.  I know that when I first started coming here I got the same attitute.  I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.  I don't expect anybody here to sugar coat it and tell me that I should apply for a Plant Manager position as a 6 year MM2, but I also don't expect to be told that I'm not qualified for anything in a civilian plant, because that simply isn't true, and Shift Manager or not, treating somebody like that just because they don't know any better is just plain wrong.
I don't make the rules or define the culture.  The only real point here is that you prepare a resume based on what you've done.  You get a job offer based on your experience/quals...and of course on their prediction of your capabilities.  Then, you show up to the front door in civilian clothes and yes..."nub" is exactly the word to use.   There are MANY differences and I'm enjoying every minute learning all of them.   

When a new person shows up on your boat/ship and says "well, on [used ta fish], we did it THIS way", how do you feel?   Again, while not well articulated here (since people are posting anonymously), it's the same reaction.   LTs need not show up to ANY new job and think "hey, I'm here to save you".   Well...maybe "we" don't need saving.

The help is greatly needed in the Navy...AND Commercial World.  There's a much bigger picture that people are missing.   So, the forum members here can pretend they are filters...they're not.   However....it can be entertaining.   For comparison I was reviewing the NNPP Group on Facebook last night.  Real names, no anonymous...they seem to be much more polite (and informative).   Such is life...

Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #35 on: Feb 26, 2010, 10:16 »
I hear internet trolls have erectile dysfunction and that is why they do what they do, just to finally get a rise out of something.


Offline crusemm

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #36 on: Feb 26, 2010, 12:12 »
Thanks Smooth Operator, now I have to clean coffee off my monitor, (after it went through my nose too)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
+K
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Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #37 on: Feb 26, 2010, 04:21 »
MY final post and then I'm done with this one ;D  I'll conceed that nothing you have done in the Nav makes you qualified for anything in the civilian world.  But it does give you the best intro course that you are likely to get.  My real issue here is one that SWO has introduced.  Why in the world does it seem like every new guy that comes here looking for info/assistance gets blasted (by a select few) simply because he mentions that he's qualified EOOW/EWS, etc?  Are those not relevent facts?  Is someone here implying that a Navy Lt has the same knowledge level or ability as some kid directly out of college or even high school?  I don't believe that.  Regardless, there are quite a few people that come here simply trying to learn about civilian power so that they can try to plan for their future.  They need the truth about how civilian power works and how their current situation applies.  Maybe it's your opinion that navy quals have no bearing on their ability to qualify in a civilian plant, but they certainly do not need to be told that they are qualified to be a janitor.  Maybe it's that nuke mentality to eat your own children or pick-on the weak new "nub", but that's a load of Horse$hit and everybody knows it.  Bottom line is civilian power needs all of the good new people that it can find and immediately trying to discourage people on here doesn't help anybody.  I know that when I first started coming here I got the same attitute.  I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.  I don't expect anybody here to sugar coat it and tell me that I should apply for a Plant Manager position as a 6 year MM2, but I also don't expect to be told that I'm not qualified for anything in a civilian plant, because that simply isn't true, and Shift Manager or not, treating somebody like that just because they don't know any better is just plain wrong.

I couldn't have said it better myself.  It also goes against what this site was created for.  +K to you and the increasing number who are bucking the trend. 
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

number41

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #38 on: Feb 26, 2010, 04:30 »
Thanks NASCAR!!!! I'll continue, on a sort-of unrelated issue, then.  Ever notice that most guys hate "usta fish" stories?  I can usually count myself into that group.  However, it occurs to me that while many of us hate other people's stories about how other people do things at some other place in some other circumstance, MY plant spends a lot of money on benchmarking trips.  And, if I'm not mistaken, we are REQUIRED to review/consider this little thing called OE prior to starting a job. ;D  Just a thought...............

Offline Smooth Operator

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #39 on: Feb 26, 2010, 04:55 »
Thanks Smooth Operator, now I have to clean coffee off my monitor, (after it went through my nose too)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
+K

Thanks, I just made that up too!!

But that is because I am a crafy ex-Enlisted nuke, not some LT.

 ;)




adrianI

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #40 on: Feb 27, 2010, 10:20 »
The whole point that Mike is trying to make, and he is correct, that your quals and experience in the Navy DO NOT in any way indicate your success potential as an instant SRO as compared to someone pulled up out of engineering, for example. The issue he has (correct me if I am wrong Mike) is when someone with certain quals coming out of the Navy has an expectation or entitlement feeling towards being an instant SRO, and look down on NLO as a possible path. The statistics are that 50%ish of ex Navy nukes do not make it through the program, either by their own drive/motivation or poor training at the station. Peach Bottom defies the statistics and we have a 100% pass rate due to an excellent training program. However, there is an individual component that plays heavily because a large part of ILT is self taught. So there is shared blame as to the 50% over all industry fail rate. There are some stations who's training philosophy is to put up 20 and hope to get 10 licenses. That is an old school way of thinking, but the fact of the matter is that it takes place out there. And what Mike is saying, is left to their own devices (ie self taught ILT), a Navy nuke has no better chance of passing than anyone else.

And I do disagree with Seth, this training is much harder than the Navy pipeline overall. Sure, GF and systems is standard power school stuff, but he also hasn't done his simulator training yet. Again I say, this is where the men are separated from the boys. This is where an instant like me, who has no clue how to even handle a vanilla scram in the plant, has to learn how to handle a full power ATWS with no level indication while there is a leak into the drywell with a bypassed containment in 6 months. Trust me, its hard. (But extremely fun and exciting).

What it all comes down to is a combination of the training program, which unfortunately is lacking at some stations, and the drive and ability of the individual. And frankly, many ex Navy people aren't up to the task of being a CRS in a nuclear power plant. And even if they do squeek by, their first mistake in requal and they will be sent to a desk.

Justin
I bet it helps if your STA notices that containment is broken??? :D

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #41 on: Feb 27, 2010, 01:44 »
LMAO yes, and now that I am qualified STA, you better hope I catch it for ya. :P

red1323

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2010, 10:17 »
Somewhat related:

 If I had poor power school grades and slightly above average grades at prototype would doing a tour as a Shift Engineer at prototype (assuming I get accepted) be helpful in succeeding in a civilian career or are the two so different that it wouldn't be worth the 2 year investment?

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2010, 10:21 »
Are you asking if you should get out now or do a tour as shift eng? Get out now. From what I saw of a shift engineer, the experience would be of no use to us. Its primarily an administrative position.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2010, 09:22 »
Are you asking if you should get out now or do a tour as shift eng? Get out now. From what I saw of a shift engineer, the experience would be of no use to us. Its primarily an administrative position.
You are wrong.....and right.

There are vast differences between what is required of a shift eng between SC and NY.

Shift eng at NPTU Charleston is a tough job.  It is a real "Engineer" job because  Charleston is run by the navy.  

KSO is more administrative because the site is run by civilians.

Cheers,
GC
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 09:26 by Gamecock »
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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2010, 09:48 »
Ah yes, I was only relating it to NPTU NY. :)

red1323

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Re: Navy Nuke LT Getting Out
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2010, 12:29 »
Thank you, that does answer some questions; I still have a lot to consider but this info has helped.

 


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