can't decide if i want to STAR

[psionic]

Thanks in advance for any insight!

I am an EM3, I have been in for a little over 2.5 years, and with the large drop in the EM multiple, I'm not sure if I should STAR.

I'm not a huge fan of my job, but It's not something that I can't bare for 2 more.  However, I walked into the recruiters office asking for nuke, with every intention of joining so that I could get my NEC and get out with an honorable discharge so I could go to a civilian plant.

Now as it stands, I have a rent and car payment, and with the loss of BAH upon getting to my ship, the reenlistment is looking pretty sweet.

I'm not sure which path I should take, the bonus doesn't seem very fair, as my MM and ET brothers are getting 3+ times as much money as I am, AND i feel like the civi side can definitely pay me more than the 35k a year plus benies that I get right now.  Is it worth digging in my shoulder and living like a half hobo for another year and a half til get my 4 year mark (and thus BAH) and get out as an E-4 at 6 years? or should I star and get it over with picking up BAH and E-5, but be 2 years away from what I really want and getting the booby prize of Nuke bonuses?

Please help!

[deltarho]

Don't do it for the money...

Do it because you can get a "C" school that will help you attain what you want when you get out.

Do it because you can go to college while on shore duty; thereby, have a job while attaining at least an associates at the Navy's expense (is it still 75%?).

Do it because it will give you more time to hone your craft, develop leadership skills, mature, see more of the world that you really wanted to see.

In all you do, have a purpose that will still pay dividends long after the money runs out.

I was always prepared to get out, but reenlisted only because I hadn't achieved my goals. I reenlisted so that I could do what I wanted at the Navy's expense.  Along the way to getting what I wanted out of Uncle Sam, I made E-8 at my 11-year point, which changed my goals.  I still got out at my 18 year and 3 month point...new goals.

[Khak-Hater]

A well-dressed man walks up to an attractive young woman and asks "Will you have sex with me for ten thousand dollars?"  She looks at him and thinks "I've had sex with worse looking men for free,"  so she agrees.  He then comes back with "Would you do it for $50.00?"  A little shocked, she replies with "What do you think I am?"  He answers "We've already established that.  Now we're talking price."

It's a very old joke, but eternally true.  You're an E-4 in the navy.  You should aspire to work your way up to "half hobo."  Seriously, an apartment and a car aren't responsabilities.  They're luxuries. 

Serve a couple of years at sea before you decide whether you want to do two more years of it.  If you like it, reenlist all that you want.  If you don't, then get out and get on with your life.  By the time that they reached their original EAOS, about 90% of the dudes that I new who reenlisted STAR would've gladly taken out a loan to pay back their SRB just to get out when they should've.  You owe it to your future self to wait and see how good the deal looks after you've done the job for a few years.

Choose wisely,

mgm

[JustinHEMI05]

PAPER CLIP 

Justin

[NukeLDO]

Do it because you can get a "C" school that will help you attain what you want when you get out.

"C" school for electricians?  Good luck with that.  You have a better chance of going to dive school than any Navy "C" school.

[Joshboy]

Put simply: Don't.

There is a reason that the STAR program targets people who haven't had significant time on the pond.  If you think the job is a bit unsavory now, just wait till you have been doing ORSE workup for 3 consecutive years non-stop. It. gets. bad.  This is assuming you are on a fast boat, and not a carrier / boomer.  If you are a boomer or surface guy, it might be a good deal.   Life is quite a bit easier for those fellows.

Additionally, what makes you think you are going to end your career as an E-4?  They do still have rating exams don't they?  E-5 and BAH are right around the corner for a nuke.  They pretty much hand out E-5 and E-6 to nukes unless you are a complete dirtbag.  The only nuke I ever saw leave as an E-4 had been masted 3 times, and even he would have made it out the door as an E-5 if they didn't get him 2 months before he discharged.

[Gamecock]

"C" school for electricians?  Good luck with that.  You have a better chance of going to dive school than any Navy "C" school.

I was RE DIVO back on IKE during her refueling complex overhaul.  I sent many an EM to "C" school.  If I remember right, motor rewind school was one of the best and most sought after.

[NukeLDO]

I was RE DIVO back on IKE during her refueling complex overhaul.  I sent many an EM to "C" school.  If I remember right, motor rewind school was one of the best and most sought after.

Ooops....forgot about the surface navy.     Electrician's Mate  "C" school for the submarine fleet was pretty much non-existent back in the 90's...maybe its different now, but I don't see any evidence of it on any of the boats here.

[Harley Rider]

A well-dressed man walks up to an attractive young woman and asks "Will you have sex with me for ten thousand dollars?"  She looks at him and thinks "I've had sex with worse looking men for free,"  so she agrees.  He then comes back with "Would you do it for $50.00?"  A little shocked, she replies with "What do you think I am?"  He answers "We've already established that.  Now we're talking price."

It's a very old joke, but eternally true.  You're an E-4 in the navy.  You should aspire to work your way up to "half hobo."  Seriously, an apartment and a car aren't responsabilities.  They're luxuries. 

Serve a couple of years at sea before you decide whether you want to do two more years of it.  If you like it, reenlist all that you want.  If you don't, then get out and get on with your life.  By the time that they reached their original EAOS, about 90% of the dudes that I new who reenlisted STAR would've gladly taken out a loan to pay back their SRB just to get out when they should've.  You owe it to your future self to wait and see how good the deal looks after you've done the job for a few years.

Choose wisely,

mgm

This is rock solid advice which you would do well to heed

[93-383]

Wether or not to STAR is a question only you can answer. If you can, wait until you are deployed in a tax free zone.

[Samabby]

Your indecision IS your decision. There can be no half steps in this career choice. Time to get out. Thanks for your service.

[psionic]

Additionally, what makes you think you are going to end your career as an E-4?  They do still have rating exams don't they?  E-5 and BAH are right around the corner for a nuke.  They pretty much hand out E-5 and E-6 to nukes unless you are a complete dirtbag.  The only nuke I ever saw leave as an E-4 had been masted 3 times, and even he would have made it out the door as an E-5 if they didn't get him 2 months before he discharged.

Well, I have plenty of guys in front of me that are senior in rate qualified, with less than a year left in service, that did not STAR, and are still 3rd's.  Electrician advancement is next to nil to get to E-5 off of the test, and the only answer that I can find is cause so many of us keep STARing.  There is a reason our multiple is so low compared to everyone else.

[Jimmykroffa]

It doesn't really matter what rank you are when you get out.....

[Joshboy]

Well, I have plenty of guys in front of me that are senior in rate qualified, with less than a year left in service, that did not STAR, and are still 3rd's.  Electrician advancement is next to nil to get to E-5 off of the test, and the only answer that I can find is cause so many of us keep STARing.  There is a reason our multiple is so low compared to everyone else.

Honestly, I am surprised about this.  Are you on a surface ship or some such?  Its terribly peculiar, and a complete polar opposite to the state of things when I got out in 2004.

Regardless, my advice is still the same - take a bite of your first s**t sandwich before you order another.

[formerET1Han]

Here's how I see it...the only reason anyone, Navy or otherwise, gives you big money to do something is
1) there aren't many people who want to do your job
or
2) there aren't many people who can

That being said, which do you think it is? Do you really think it's that hard to do your job? Is it really that hard to push a kid through the nuke pipeline? Since both of those answers are probably no, the job in itself isn't that hard, and the school was do-able, then why isn't your multiple 0?

Because even though there are plenty of qualified individuals who CAN do the job, not many people want to. I hate 3 section duty. I hate port and starboard more. Duty alone is a good enough reason to leave in my opinion. Go to any civilian occupation and ask them how often they sleep at work. Imagine how much you'd be paid if you were hourly and were at work on 2 separate 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Now, that covers sea duty.

On to shore duty - 8 section duty sounds pretty sweet...compared to the pain of sea duty. Only the senior most individuals have 24 hour call back in the civilian world, and they are paid a pretty penny for that. They don't have to sign away years of their lives to do it. If one day, they come in to work and say, "can't do it," no one gives them a world of s**t. I agree that one should finish their BS (not an AA) before getting out if they can. But I recommend not STAR-ing to do it. Wait until your EAOS is coming up. See if the Navy really needs you. If they give you A school or Power school, TRF or the pure water truck, sure...

[Already Gone]

I'll tell you what.

Get a BS if you want one, or don't.

Stay in if you like it (you don't know yet if you like it or not)  You need to spend two full years at sea before you know if you like it.  If you get married at any point, the two-year clock resets to zero beginning on the first day you are underway following the wedding.

Lose the apartment.  You don't need it.  Or, get some room-mates.

When you re-enlist you ALWAYS do it for the money.  But the money in question represents years of your life - thus, it must be seen as an investment.  You invest SRB money (by buying a house or sticking it into an IRA or buying bonds, etc.)  You don't SPEND SRB money.  That is not wise.  So, if you are looking at SRB as a way to pay for an apartment you don't need or a nice car that may be more than you need or can afford, you are looking for love in all the wrong places, my friend.

But, the fact that you ship-over for the money does not mean that the money is worth it.  If you hate your job (like I said, you don't know yet) the money will not be worth the extra time you will have to do it.  If you love your job, well, that's why they call it a bonus.  Because the truth is that you can get money in a lot of places.  "Do it for the money" really means "do it because you love it but take the money anyway".

By the way, good luck and thank you for serving our country.

[deltarho]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo (it was that way when I was in too ... circa 80's) Mr. Bill!

My first Work Center Supervisor was an E-4.  He was qualified up to RT (on a surface ship that means he walks on water and is the Reactor Controls tech. rep. on the watch--so to speak).  He had E-6s working for him.  Back then, it wasn't about rank--it was about ability, experience, knowledge, and not messing with the LPO's locked toolbox that had his "cigarettes" in it.  The rating exam wanted to know about Radar Gear and Communications Gear and other Topsider-Coner equipment.  Who has time to maintain level of knowledge about such esoteric things when there are Fast Recovery Start-Ups to supervise, Rod Maintenance to perform, Calorimetrics and Estimated Critical Positions to calculate...

[playswithairplanes]

Lots of good advice for young nubs.  Another thing is to look at just how much SRB you are getting for how many years, then compare that to average starting salary on the outside, either inside the Nuke Industry or out. If you are going to whore yourself, you might as well know just how much you're whoring yourself for. 

[TJ Nuke]

Several questions (after reading most everything posted on the subject - although not sure I still remember it all):

Is an E-5 from star less valuable for the future than regular advancement?

If you are reasonably certain to advance from testing on the September test, would it be better to wait the 6 months for the results (I understand the financial difference)?

As I do the calculation, it looks like the extra 2 years will mostly be spent ashore.  SPU seems to be an option.  I think it would be more interesting to do that job after being on a boat.  But it appears that the remaining time (of the total of 6 or 8 years w/star) looks something like this: (a) finish ELT (after almost 26 months in the Navy), go to the fleet, then come back for prototype or other nuke school staff with very little time left on the 8 years (after the extension) to go back to the fleet OR (b) SPU, then go to the fleet with limited time thereafter.  As a result, it doesn't look like very much of the extra 2 years will be additional time spent in the fleet.  Am I missing something?

[NukeLDO]

SPU is duty immediately following qualification at prototype.  If you are a stellar student, you may be offered a SPU position.  Once you go to the fleet and come back, you are a sea returnee, not a SPU.

[TJ Nuke]

Just qualified prototype.   Orders for ELT.  Had option to stay for SPU or ELT, chose ELT. 

Assume SPU would still be an option after qualify ELT - maybe wrong assumption . 

One of the issues I am trying to understand is:  Does the extra 2 years (STAR) really mean 2 more years in the fleet or is a substantial part of it really going to be some land job?  Is that amount of time significantly changed by whether I accept SPU or end up on staff later?
Am I correct in assuming that my most likely shore duty will be nuke pipeline staff (this is probably the preferred job from the options I understand are currently available)?

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

Before someone explains it to me, I understand assuming and the Navy are not necessarily compatible and I do understand about "needs of the Navy."

[Fermi2]

Isn't there a Command Master Chief or Career Adviser whose job it is to explain this stuff to you?

[TJ Nuke]

I thought before you went to see the recruiter you were supposed to already know that you could only count on what the Navy communicated to you in writing which was signed.  And then, only if it was still in the best interests of the Navy.

I was looking for unbiased, experienced second opinions.

[Fermi2]

Then why not just see what the recruiter says or at least try the search function?
Then ask.

[deltarho]

Your desired accomplishments will be the spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down...

Nothing is ever as it seems--sometimes.  You may lay out the best intended plans, find out later the rules changed.

For example, while at NFAS, normally a 39 month billet back in my day, several tubers around me had their tours shrunk to 17 or 18 months and sent back out to the fleet. This in the name of staggering openings caused by the startup of the school. The detailers didn't appreciate having mass transfers and fills happening at the same time because the initial manning was done in mass.

Every fork-in-the-road decision should be about meeting your goals. If you expect to not have a life during your service, then you will never be disappointed. Pursue the opportunities and goals you set out for yourself.

The two posts above me are absolutely what I wish I said in addition to what I said...or was trying to "said".  I would give them some of my Karma...

[mlslstephens]

Just qualified prototype.   Orders for ELT.  Had option to stay for SPU or ELT, chose ELT. 

Assume SPU would still be an option after qualify ELT - maybe wrong assumption . 

One of the issues I am trying to understand is:  Does the extra 2 years (STAR) really mean 2 more years in the fleet or is a substantial part of it really going to be some land job?  Is that amount of time significantly changed by whether I accept SPU or end up on staff later?
Am I correct in assuming that my most likely shore duty will be nuke pipeline staff (this is probably the preferred job from the options I understand are currently available)?

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

TJ, first of all congratulations on getting through the pipeline.  No small deed and even though many people on this forum have already accomplished said goal...you deserve your congratulations as well. 
Second, congratulations on making a decision.  You chose ELT.  Great job.  Now you have another school to complete.  Check back with us when you qualify ELT and I will again tell you congratulations.

Now, for all the other questions you have.  Go with your gut and go with what you "want".  Do you want to STAR?  Do you want to be a JSI? (for you old timers, we don't call them SPUs anymore...still waiting on the PTM to catch up to this change)  Make a decision and go with it.
Life is a journey...not a destination.  When you go whitewater rafting, you go where the river takes you and yes, you have some control; but not much.  This is how the Navy works.  Yes, you have some control on what you do; but mostly the Navy owns you for a few years.  That is okay, just go with the flow and enjoy every single day.  Make the most of every situation no matter how much the situation stinks. (This is the only thing that kept me sane during my last tour at NPTU) 
Looking back on my career, it didn't go anything like I thought it would when I graduated from prototype.  The river took many unexpected turns; but looking back it was a fun and exciting journey.
I've said it before and I will say it again, I was planning on doing 6 and out but ended up staying 22.  I don't regret a single step I took. Nor do I regret getting out.  That was the best decision for me and my family because I'm doing what I want to be doing and we are all having a blast!

Final thought...trust yourself and enjoy.  I wish you all the best.

[DDMurray]

I re-enlisted after I had made E-5 and did one patrol.  I did it for the money and because I wanted to eventually be an NPS instructor and get my degree while on shore duty.  I waived my C school (this was in 1986 when you could still go to EM C-7 school) to transfer off the boat a year early.  This put me four years on the boat, rolling to NPS at my six year point in the navy.  While at NPS I earned my BS (in business) by going to school at night.  While on shore duty I made CPO and ended up staying in 24 years. 

So you can reenlist and not spend any more time at sea, but there's a risk you could do more time at sea.  If you delay re-enlisting there's a risk you could obligate yourself past your shore duty tour.  If you decide to re-enlist, do so prior to your four year point, otherwise you risk losing two years of SRB.  If you re-enlist early and hate your job in the navy, you may regret your decision.  In any case, make a decision and don't look back. 

Whether you stay in or get out, the same things that will set you up for success when you get out, will help you be successful in the navy.  Never, ever forget that.

Derek

 

[xforcehunter]

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

I went to the boat as an E-5 NUB.  I still hot racked (sometimes in the torpedo room)and cranked.  Nobody cared about my rank...a NUB is a NUB!  You gotta get your fish and start standing some watch before anybody will care what rank you are.

[TJ Nuke]

Thank you for the perspective.

[Tylus]

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.  This applies for everyone.  Love or Hate the Navy.  Trust me, 6 yrs or 8yrs...it flies by.  2 measly years will mean nothing.


You have to factor in several things.
1.  E-4 vs. E-5 base pay
2.  E-4 vs. E-5 "supplemental" pays
3.  Bonus
4.  Shore Duty


1. Base Pay
        Based on the 2009 pay schedules:

        E-4 @ 2yrs gets $1828.00 monthly
        E-4 over 2yrs gets $1921.00 monthly

        E-5 @ 2yrs gets $1994.00 monthly
        E-5 over 2yrs gets $2127.00 montly

        almost $2,500 more per year in base pay alone



2.  Additional Pays (assume over 2yrs)

        E-4
                Sub Pay - $95
                Sea Pay - $70 (1yr or less of Sea Time)
                Pro Pay - $150

        E-5
                Sub Pay - $155
                Sea Pay - $70 (1yr or less of Sea Time)
                Pro Pay - $150
                BAH      - $588 (then adjusted for Region)
                Comrats - $324

                E-4 = $315 monthly, $3780 yearly
                E-5 = $1287 monthly, $15,444 yearly



3.  Bonus
                Used to be typical of "Baby Nukes" to get anywhere from $30,000 to $75,000...for only 2 yrs.  EM's are getting bent over a bit, but I believe the $45,000-$60,000 bonus structure is still available

                Re-enlist in a tax free zone, and you are looking at anywhere from $15,000 to $33,000 in one lump sum up front.  Then the remainder split out for the next 4-5 yrs.


4.  Shore Duty
                Why would you voluntarily give the Navy 4-5 yrs on a boat and then get nothing from it.  Submarines suck...alot.  Get some sort of reward.  Scary thing is, they are still better than Carriers.

                Get the Shore Duty you have earned.  Get your Degree.  A B.S. is easily achieved while on Shore Duty.  There is no reason to get out of the Navy without a degree...especially directly from a ship.






IMO, you have have your cake, and eat it too.  If you are smart about it, you stand to pocket a Significant amount of money, and then basically have 2-3yrs of paid Vacation (Shore Duty).

Not even counting the Bonus...just the advancement to E-5, Star Re-Enlistment nets you an additional $105,000 over a 6 year period

    
          and that is without calculating the increase in pays you would recieve for each career milestone...like >4 yrs, >6 yrs...the Sea Pay Kicker...Senior Sup Pro-Pay.


Also, by Star Re-Enlistment, you are shortcutting the path to Advance.  It puts you that much closer to E-6...I make alot more money than a E-4...alot


You'll still be a lowly Nub...but as a Qualified 2nd...life is pretty good.  They are the backbone of the Navy.



for the Naysayers:  I understand if you hate the Navy...but don't let your bad attitude influence others.  Present both sides of the coin, and allow them to figure an answer themselves.

[JustinHEMI05]

Actually, STARing is for chumps, IMO.  But I see you drank the kool aid. 

Your idea of a paid vacation is laughable, at best. .

When in doubt, six and out.

But again, its all just my opinion based on the fact that I was a STAR chump. 

Justin

[HydroDave63]

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.  This applies for everyone. 

Perhaps they want to see what life at sea is like first.

[HydroDave63]

        E-5 over 2yrs gets $2127.00 montly

        almost $2,500 more per year in base pay alone

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

[JustinHEMI05]

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

Indeed. And that's worst case. NLOs at my plant start at 27/hr and far exceed any bonus the navy pays for STAR in short time.

Justin

[Tylus]

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

nice way to selectively cut and present an argument

that is an E-5 getting paid $2127 per month on base pay alone.  His actual paycheck monthly before taxes is $3,418 with 2 yrs of service


When I was an E-5 under 6yrs of service on my Boat...I was contemplating getting out.  After doing the math, I had to get a minimum of $23.00 per hour.  Just to break even.  That wasn't even factoring in the costs for Dental/Medical

[Tylus]

Look, I didn't mean to start an argument.  But I have issues with the huge numbers of people claiming to be Nukes...and then subsequently bashing the Nuke Program.

It has alot of huge issues.  I agree.  But it isn't the horrible monstrosity that people claim it is.  There are Problems, and then there are People Problems...IMO alot of people are "made" Nukes who should have been weeded out of the program.  They simply aren't capable of the job...or were never of a "Military" mind and would be miserable people in any job, in any Branch of service.


And then there are people with legitimate gripes...I've got a few myself.  That is why I am 50/50 for finishing the final 8 yrs I'd need after my contract expires at my 12yr points.


But crying about working long hours, or being deployed...that is part and parcel of the Military.






Back on topic:

Perhaps they want to see what life at sea is like first.

agreed

But you are pretty much going to get the taste of Sea life within the first 6 months...waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

To maximize the amount of money you will recieve, the optimal time schedule is on the 2yr, 6yr and 10yr anniversaries.  Waiting is only lowering the bonus amount you will recieve.  I myself waited till my 3yr point to Star.

I wish someone had sat me down and explained the benefits like I did in my prior post.  It cost me a year of advancements and much money because I was determined to make E-5 off the test.  I know better now.

Actually, STARing is for chumps, IMO.  But I see you drank the kool aid. 

Your idea of a paid vacation is laughable, at best. .

When in doubt, six and out.

But again, its all just my opinion based on the fact that I was a STAR chump. 

Justin

I'm on my paid vacation (Shore Duty)in Pearl Harbor right now.  My latest day is 1:00 p.m.  I get to see my wife/kids, I work 5 days a week.  I actually get time for PT, and Medical, and College

vs the 9-10 pm every night when I was on the boat.  Did that for almost 6 yrs...there is a Green Pasture after the boat.  If you went to NPTU...ouch.


if you have issues with the Navy I understand.  But at least approach things objectively.  Calling me a Chump is nice and all, but it gets you nowhere.  I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

Now if you took the cookie, and then subsequently blew the entire Bonus on stupid stuff...it ain't the Navy's fault.  No reason to be pissed at anybody but yourself.



being a pissed off little baby about the Navy gets you nothing.  Just crappy evals, and your attitude drags down others.



thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...sorry that I can't join the "Hate the Navy" bandwagon and display my Paperclip.

[HydroDave63]

+karma for having the balls to stand your ground in this crowd,.....

thanks for standing the watch,....

There goes Marssim being the Good Cop again.....

[Wydryd99]

It looks like you'll have some time to think it over.  SRBs have been suspended until the next FY.  Just read a message on that yesterday.  Unless you want to re-up for the free pen only.

[G-reg]

waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

You really aren't even aware of how much you presume in this one single statement, are you?  Are you the same guy that you called objective and open-minded?  Wow.
Maybe - just maybe - there's a different side to the "waiting" issue than the one you're talking about.  Can you think of a different side to this issue on your own, Enlightened One?

I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

P.S.  I have served with several people who deliberately waited to reenlist - and yes, they accomplished a purpose by waiting.

[G-reg]

thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.

If you're going to play a bashing game, why would you be surprised to find yourself getting bashed back?  Or perhaps they just presented their side of the coin?  (And if you may be wondering, no it wasn't me.  Not yet, anyway.)

[JustinHEMI05]

Look, I didn't mean to start an argument.  But I have issues with the huge numbers of people claiming to be Nukes...and then subsequently bashing the Nuke Program.

It has alot of huge issues.  I agree.  But it isn't the horrible monstrosity that people claim it is.  There are Problems, and then there are People Problems...IMO alot of people are "made" Nukes who should have been weeded out of the program.  They simply aren't capable of the job...or were never of a "Military" mind and would be miserable people in any job, in any Branch of service.


And then there are people with legitimate gripes...I've got a few myself.  That is why I am 50/50 for finishing the final 8 yrs I'd need after my contract expires at my 12yr points.


But crying about working long hours, or being deployed...that is part and parcel of the Military.






Back on topic:agreed

But you are pretty much going to get the taste of Sea life within the first 6 months...waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

To maximize the amount of money you will recieve, the optimal time schedule is on the 2yr, 6yr and 10yr anniversaries.  Waiting is only lowering the bonus amount you will recieve.  I myself waited till my 3yr point to Star.

I wish someone had sat me down and explained the benefits like I did in my prior post.  It cost me a year of advancements and much money because I was determined to make E-5 off the test.  I know better now.

I'm on my paid vacation (Shore Duty)in Pearl Harbor right now.  My latest day is 1:00 p.m.  I get to see my wife/kids, I work 5 days a week.  I actually get time for PT, and Medical, and College

vs the 9-10 pm every night when I was on the boat.  Did that for almost 6 yrs...there is a Green Pasture after the boat.  If you went to NPTU...ouch.


if you have issues with the Navy I understand.  But at least approach things objectively.  Calling me a Chump is nice and all, but it gets you nowhere.  I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

Now if you took the cookie, and then subsequently blew the entire Bonus on stupid stuff...it ain't the Navy's fault.  No reason to be pissed at anybody but yourself.



being a pissed off little baby about the Navy gets you nothing.  Just crappy evals, and your attitude drags down others.



thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...sorry that I can't join the "Hate the Navy" bandwagon and display my Paperclip.

No one is pissed off, no one had bad evals or a bad attitude and no one blew their SRB. I also didn't call you a chump. I said STARing is for chumps, and it is. 

Oh I didn't give you negative karma either. I don't have a problem with people stating their case and standing up for it, I respect it.

Relax.

Justin

[DDMurray]

No one is pissed off, no one had bad evals or a bad attitude and no one blew their SRB. I also didn't call you a chump. I said STARing is for chumps, and it is. 

The navy is not for everyone.  The nuclear navy is for even less people.  The nuclear submarine navy is for even less.  If everybody who stayed in is a chump, who would you have on watch, doing the mission, a mission more important than most people know or admit to?

Don't get pissed, re-enlist!

Derek

[Tylus]

For anybody considering Star.  Please get as far away from the Negative Whiners as you can.  Don't listen to them.

      Instead, look at both sides of the coin.  Get a Pro and a Con list going.  Talk to the guys who have been in for longer than their first term.  Ask them about Shore Duty, the benefits...and of course the Money.

      Conversely, ask them about the Bad aspects.  Get an informed decision.



It isn't a easy decision.  I said it above, and I'll re-iterate.  Don't get out of the Navy with nothing to show for it.  If you do 6 yrs (especially on a Sub), you are very unlikely to have your degree...and you just spent about 4 1/2 yrs on your boat.
       So why not get a big chunk of $$$, and then get 2-3 yrs of time for that degree?



Whatever you do, Don't let some little pissant run your life.  Make the decision yourself.  The Naysayers aren't happy...good for them.  The job does suck.
      But I personally have been to lots of cool places, done incredible things, and I get paid very well for a relatively easy job.  I met lots of great people I hope to be friends with for a lifetime.  I'm proud of what I've done, and hope to continue doing so.


Off-Topic

You really aren't even aware of how much you presume in this one single statement, are you?  Are you the same guy that you called objective and open-minded?  Wow.
Maybe - just maybe - there's a different side to the "waiting" issue than the one you're talking about.  Can you think of a different side to this issue on your own, Enlightened One?

P.S.  I have served with several people who deliberately waited to reenlist - and yes, they accomplished a purpose by waiting.

If you are a 6 and Out person...more power to ya.  It ain't for everybody.  I was almost one of ya.


But if you even sligthly think you are going to want Shore Duty, or stay 20yrs...waiting only hurts you.  Do the math.  It gains you nothing but lost time on promotions, a huge loss of money...and if your NCC screws you over, a Sea Tour after your Shore Duty.
      I've actually got 2 of my sailers dealing with that right now.  They've got 1yr of Sea Duty left after their Shore Duty...and it is all their faults.  But you'd never know it according to them and how the big mean old Navy f'd 'em over.


There is more to life than being a PaperClip person with a negative attitude.  All you do is ruin other people days and underways.  Nobody wants to live with it.

      I screwed up about 2yrs of my career with that B.S.  At some point I pulled my head out of my a$$ and just shut up....surprisingly, things got better.  The Khaki watches you.  Don't be a pain in there butts, and you'd be amazed at the outcome.




I appologize for the direction I steered this.  But at least it got more out there than "screw the navy" and such

[Fermi2]

If you're a decent nuke steer clear of STAR and get out. STAR will cost you a LOT of money.

[Neutron Whisperer]

Just happened this week: the navy has met its numbers for the fiscal year.  There's a freeze on SRB until October.  Looks like they got the numbers they were shooting for a couple months ago when they had the temporarily elevated multiples.

[HydroDave63]

      But I personally have been to lots of cool places, done incredible things, and I get paid very well for a relatively easy job. 

[G-reg]

All right, Enlightened One, here come the training wheels for you...

If you are a 6 and Out person...more power to ya.  It ain't for everybody.  I was almost one of ya.

If I am a six-and-out person?  Where would you get that information from?  Perhaps from all of the voluminous reading you've done on this website?  I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that a considerable percentage of the material you've read on this site consists of your own writing.  There are almost 100,000 posts in this forum; as for myself, I read thousands and thousands of them before I ever made my first post here.  Had you done something similar to that yourself, it would have been very obvious (because that ridiculous statement above would have never been posted).  But instead, it has become apparent on this forum that your main interest is simply the sound of your own voice.

But if you even slightly think you are going to want Shore Duty, or stay 20yrs...waiting only hurts you.  Do the math.  It gains you nothing but lost time on promotions, a huge loss of money...and if your NCC screws you over, a Sea Tour after your Shore Duty.

I'm going to list for you some examples of benefits which can be had from waiting to reenlist.  And depending on the individual involved in the decision-making at the time, some of the things below can actually be more important than the extra money the Navy gives you.  You should open your mind at this point to the fact that not everyone on the planet worships at the altar of Direct Deposit (nor should they have to).

Case #1:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to use it as a bargaining chip to help in negotiating a set of follow-on orders that the individual would like.
Case #2:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to preserve his/her option to get out of the Navy if the only follow-on orders to be offered aren't worth staying in for (in that person's eyes), even with the extra money.
Case #3:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, because they have a situation going on with their family; depending on the outcome of the family situation, reenlisting may or may not be a very, very bad (or good) thing.  However, the decision cannot be made promptly at the two-year point because the situation has not worked itself out at home yet; there just isn't sufficient information at the present time to make an all-around, well-informed decision.


Go on ahead and ask me if I made any of those cases up...  Certainly, the individuals in each case above made fewer than the absolute maximum number of dollar bills that they possibly could have made; but for every individual I've known that fell into one of the cases above, they got something even more important than the money by waiting - they got the freedom to do whatever they damn well wanted to do (or not do) with their reenlistment.  Some things are more important to some people than money.  Does that fact bother you?  Does it strike you as a crying shame that these people get to make decisions like that for themselves, instead of you making their decisions for them - what with your "both sides" enlightenment and all?  And shouldn't it seem obvious to everyone that you ought to have the authority to reenlist any sailor in the nuclear Navy at their 2-year point, because you and only you have all of the right answers; you and only you possess sufficient wisdom to see that it's utterly stupid for anybody to not reenlist at their two year point?

Whatever you do, Don't let some little pissant run your life.

Is that a universal statement, or are the pissants in your camp specifically excluded?  Is this how you convince people of the merits of your conclusions?  I certainly applaud your convictions, but get a grip on the fact that somebody can disagree with you and not be completely out of their senses.

I'm coming down hard on you mainly because you are self-aggrandizing and are making broad, general put-downs.  If you clean up your act, you'll see a completely different side of me.  I can (and have) encouraged several people to reenlist in the nuclear Navy - and I did it without slinging the putrid crap you're slinging.

 - Greg

[Fermi2]

Doesn't the Navy still do at least 4 24 hour duty days a month?
Lets see 3400 dollars/96 Hours. Do the math.

I more than made up any Star Reenlistment within 7 months of getting out and today is even more lucrative. If you're gonna stay in because of your commitment to your country then all power to you, but if you STAR because of the money you're a first rate Tool.

[MeterSwangin]

Dude, an average House Tech at Palo Verde, Diablo Canyon or San Onofre makes $40/hr (base plus onus pay, more if earning shift differential.)  They all work at least 1 outage per year, and get some OT during online periods.

A basic RP Tech at these plants brings down more than a nuke LCDR.  That is right...an O-5.  I guarantee it.  First line supes who like OT hit the sweet spot.  I know one in RP who made $205K in 2008.  And it was easy.

I made more my first year out of the navy than my Master Chief made that year.  Reenlistment bonuses are for chumps.  The civilian nuclear industry is in a HISTORIC HUMAN CAPITAL CRISIS.  One would be a fool to miss out now.  People hiring onto the industry now can shoot straight into management at established plants, and will write their own ticket in 10 years when New Nukes hit while everybody retires.

[JustinHEMI05]

If you're a decent nuke steer clear of STAR and get out. STAR will cost you a LOT of money.

UMM I was going to say +1. But its more like;

+150,000 which would conservatively correlate to the amount of money I would have lost the last 2 (TWO) years if I stayed navy, if you looked at only salary. 

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Doesn't the Navy still do at least 4 24 hour duty days a month?
Lets see 3400 dollars/96 Hours. Do the math.

I more than made up any Star Reenlistment within 7 months of getting out and today is even more lucrative. If you're gonna stay in because of your commitment to your country then all power to you, but if you STAR because of the money you're a first rate Tool.

I was gonna say, depending on where you go/do, its pretty quick. Due to the moving allowance I was allotted alone, I surpassed any reenlistment bonus offered. 

Justin

[Tylus]

All right, Enlightened One, here come the training wheels for you...

If I am a six-and-out person?  Where would you get that information from?  Perhaps from all of the voluminous reading you've done on this website?  I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that a considerable percentage of the material you've read on this site consists of your own writing.  There are almost 100,000 posts in this forum; as for myself, I read thousands and thousands of them before I ever made my first post here.  Had you done something similar to that yourself, it would have been very obvious (because that ridiculous statement above would have never been posted).  But instead, it has become apparent on this forum that your main interest is simply the sound of your own voice.

did I specifically point you out?

no.  I merely stated that the Navy isn't for everybody.  At no point did I knock upon the "6 & Out" person.  It is a general statement based on the enormous amounts of people posting that are quite obviously 1st timers.  Again, nothing wrong with that.  Do your time and happy sailing to ya in the rest of your endeavours.


I don't understand you point in the above quote.  What is it exactly?
     Seems like you are more interesting in discreditting me, and my opposite views.  Sorry I cannot conform to your Negative (popular) viewing of the Star Program.

     I appologize for the apparent offense I have somehow given you.  You are right though, that does sound pretty good in the apparent vastness of my cranial cavity.

Are you a 6 & Out'er?

I'm going to list for you some examples of benefits which can be had from waiting to reenlist.  And depending on the individual involved in the decision-making at the time, some of the things below can actually be more important than the extra money the Navy gives you.  You should open your mind at this point to the fact that not everyone on the planet worships at the altar of Direct Deposit (nor should they have to).

please re-read my last post.

I like that..."Alter of Direct Deposit".  You are right, there is more to re-enlistment than the Almighty Dollar.  I am pretty sure I pointed out a few other reasons to Star other than $$$.

Perhaps you glossed over them?

Case #1:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to use it as a bargaining chip to help in negotiating a set of follow-on orders that the individual would like.
true.  no argument there.  How do you think I got my current Shore Duty?...but I did it as a Zone B, not Zone A...long story, but basically I was on a boat for too long

Case #2:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to preserve his/her option to get out of the Navy if the only follow-on orders to be offered aren't worth staying in for (in that person's eyes), even with the extra money.
again, read my prior post(s).  Lose/Lose in my eyes, but I've seen it happen.

Case #3:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, because they have a situation going on with their family; depending on the outcome of the family situation, reenlisting may or may not be a very, very bad (or good) thing.  However, the decision cannot be made promptly at the two-year point because the situation has not worked itself out at home yet; there just isn't sufficient information at the present time to make an all-around, well-informed decision.
nice generalization.  this is a very specific and rare case.  It does happen.  Anybody with Sea time has seen similar issues.  But for the everyday sailor, it isn't an issue

I bolded my words

Go on ahead and ask me if I made any of those cases up...  Certainly, the individuals in each case above made fewer than the absolute maximum number of dollar bills that they possibly could have made; but for every individual I've known that fell into one of the cases above, they got something even more important than the money by waiting - they got the freedom to do whatever they damn well wanted to do (or not do) with their reenlistment.  Some things are more important to some people than money.  Does that fact bother you?  Does it strike you as a crying shame that these people get to make decisions like that for themselves, instead of you making their decisions for them - what with your "both sides" enlightenment and all?  And shouldn't it seem obvious to everyone that you ought to have the authority to reenlist any sailor in the nuclear Navy at their 2-year point, because you and only you have all of the right answers; you and only you possess sufficient wisdom to see that it's utterly stupid for anybody to not reenlist at their two year point?

you are so self-righteous that you are perverting my words.  You obviously never read my prior posts.  You see certain key words that clicked in your head and trigger an immediate attack reflex.  And now you are convinced that I am the Super-diggit who is out to subvert every Baby Nuke out there.

Get over yourself.  Read my posts.  Feel free to comprehend what they say...don't generalize and gloss over my words to help you achieve your predetermined conclusion about what I am saying.

I presented the other side of the coin.  I have previously and still continue to say the Navy isn't for everybody.  But...it does have some very very big benefits for those who work 'em to their advantage.

My opening sentence could use some work...sorry about that one.  But the rest of my posts were spot on.

Is that a universal statement, or are the pissants in your camp specifically excluded?  Is this how you convince people of the merits of your conclusions?  I certainly applaud your convictions, but get a grip on the fact that somebody can disagree with you and not be completely out of their senses.

I'm coming down hard on you mainly because you are self-aggrandizing and are making broad, general put-downs.  If you clean up your act, you'll see a completely different side of me.  I can (and have) encouraged several people to reenlist in the nuclear Navy - and I did it without slinging the putrid crap you're slinging.

 - Greg

Shall I dig out the dictionary as well.  The "pissants" I spoke of are...well essentially what you are presenting.

You are so set in your self-righteous ways, that you see what I am saying as a personal attack upon everything you hold near and dear.

Not so.


I've said it several times now...but I'll say it again.  Feel free to reread, and actually comprehend what I've said.  I have not attacked anybody.  Perhaps my frustration with the stupidity of some comments came accross.

Basically, what you are posting on, and subsequently attacking me about is exactly the sort of stuff I deal with everyday.

I understand if it ain't for you.  But please don't ruin the guy coming along behind or with you.  Allow that person to reach their decision by themselves.

Give 'em your perspective.  They need to see both sides...but quite a few of the posts here are exactly what I am talking above.  I raised the dissenting point, and suddenly I am the devil.  Sorry...not. 

We've all seen the SNOB (Shortest Nuke on Board) and his little crowd of underlings eagerly awaiting the turnover.  They make life miserable for the Baby Nukes, and ridicule all who choose the Star Path.  People who Star, or stay Navy are labeled as "Chumps", "Tools", "Fools".  It quite frankly gets old see that kind of peer pressure ruin people who could have had a good career.

Baby Nukes need to hear it all.  Bashing upon them, and people like myself is crap.

Razzing somebody who disagree's with you is pure bull.  I'm not sure what your Leadership experience is, but I deal with this Situation fairly often.  I often see young sailors who are confused about their career paths.

Every time I get a new sailor I sit them down and go over their career and their intentions.  For those who are getting out, I go through the usual spiel and make 'em listen to it 1 time.  I present all of their options.  They may not want to hear it, but it has to be done.  Not everybody has a game plan for getting out.

If they are still adamant, so be it.  I will bring the subject up at Eval time, and during Career review boards.  But I respect their decision, and pretty much let it go at that.


But they at least get a fair shake.

If you are going to defend your position from my post, please leave the emotions at the door.  I didn't come across very well, but hopefully I have rectified that.

[JustinHEMI05]

I think we have all been very clear that the only reason labels like "chumps" are applied, is if you are doing it for the money, which is all STAR is. That is the point. If you are doing it for the love of the Navy and to Serve, there is no one here that would look down on that point of view. Instead, we would applaud you.

But in all of your bloviating, all you said is this;

Not STARing for the money is stupid.

You are wrong about that.

Justin

[G-reg]

You are such a fool.  Anyone who has taken the time to read though this forum knows where I stand.

[Tylus]

But in all of your bloviating, all you said is this;

Not STARing for the money is stupid.

You are wrong about that.

Justin

and again.  read my posts.  I read all of your posts & others.  I actually read them several times to ensure I got 'em right.


I have put more reasons out there than simply doing it for the money.  I mentioned Career Advancement, Shore Duty, College, Benefits (Med/Dental)


My 1st post was a bit overkill, and sorry for it.  I guess during all of my bloviating you don't even bother to read posts.  Skimming misses the good stuff

There is more to life than blaming the Navy for everything wrong in your life, and subsequently trying to force the Hands of people coming behind you



I came to this site for a simple question about ESRP.  I got my answer...I think.  Thanks for that.

Otherwise, this site is exactly like being in the Engineroom.  A bunch of sad jaded little people who insist that getting out is the only viable alternative...and feel that belittling the "lifer" is appropriate.


I was hoping to be a postive contributer for the Original Poster and at least help them make an informed decision.  Rather than bandwagon against it.  My initial choice of words wasn't the best.   But everything I put afterwards is correct.


I'm glad some people apparently are able to get these wonderful jobs at powerplants.  It's nice to know the Nuke Pipeline has given some of us a better Job market on the outside.  Lets be realistic though.  They cannot hire every ex-nuke who so desires.  So there isn't a huge pool of highpaying jobs awaiting every Nuke who gets out.

I personally have yet to know a single guy I've served with yet who has gotten one of these Holy Grail jobs.  Always hear stories about guys who have friends that got hired...or people here on this site.  The jobs exist, but nowhere in enough #'s for people to place their entire Post-Navy career's hopes onto.

anyways, I'm out.  No reason to hang out on a Board where bucking the convention will get me attacked.  I can't sit idly by and see the very obvious Anti-Navy bias without chiming in.  So rather than waste more of my life and yours, I'll bow out.

[Gamecock]

I came to this site for a simple question about ESRP.  I got my answer...I think.  Thanks for that.

Otherwise, this site is exactly like being in the Engineroom.  A bunch of sad jaded little people who insist that getting out is the only viable alternative...and feel that belittling the "lifer" is appropriate.

You couldn't be more wrong about most folks here.

[HydroDave63]

I personally have yet to know a single guy I've served with yet who has gotten one of these Holy Grail jobs.  Always hear stories about guys who have friends that got hired...or people here on this site.  The jobs exist, but nowhere in enough #'s for people to place their entire Post-Navy career's hopes onto

 

Just within the confines of this thread alone , the replies came from officers, plant operators, project managers and a Shift Manager. Finding a post-Nav job isn't rocket science, it's about networking. Heck, even a lowly fatbody like me managed to get a  guy into Grid Ops within 3 months of asking. I'd recommend working on your people "soft skill set".

anyways, I'm out.  No reason to hang out on a Board where bucking the convention will get me attacked.  I can't sit idly by and see the very obvious Anti-Navy bias without chiming in.  So rather than waste more of my life and yours, I'll bow out.

Man, I haven't cried like that since I watched Old Yeller...

[Marlin]

and again.  read my posts.  I read all of your posts & others.  I actually read them several times to ensure I got 'em right.

My 1st post was a bit overkill, and sorry for it.  I guess during all of my bloviating you don't even bother to read posts.  Skimming misses the good stuff


anyways, I'm out.  No reason to hang out on a Board where bucking the convention will get me attacked.  I can't sit idly by and see the very obvious Anti-Navy bias without chiming in.  So rather than waste more of my life and yours, I'll bow out.

   A little advice from another MM1/SS, we are a dime a dozen out here after more than 50 years of nuclear operations by the Navy. If you find yourself being treated like the "Nub" here there is a good reason for that. Try to remember back to when you had newbies come on board with what you considered naive questions. Please consider that everyone will have a different experience and perspective in and out of the Navy. We have a large number of curmugeons on here but they are for the most part very experienced, knowledgable, and in positions of responsibility in and out of the Navy.

   You are the first person I have "smited" in a year.

[Preciousblue1965]

Having read through all the posts on this one, it seems to me that this particular individual is going to fall under the category of "institutionalized" and is afraid to get out of the Navy for fear of having to deal with the "real" world.  Seen a few in my short career.  Usually they are the type that are rediculously out of touch, willing to throw people under the bus in a heart beat, and so incompetent that it scares their fellow workers.  Of course, I could be wrong.....

[Already Gone]

Did I miss a good donnybrook or what!?!?!

In another post, I repeated the axiom: "those who look for advice are really seeking an accomplice."

I've decided that the converse position is true as well.  It seems that a lot of people rationalize their own behavior and validate it by counting the number of people they can convince to emulate it.  Those who offer unsolicited advice are about as guilty as those who take it.

"Look how smart I am.  I did this, and you should do it too."

Well, I took the bait.  But I was already an E-5 when I did the STAR thing, so it didn't really get me anything but the SRB and PRO pay (which nukes didn't get back then unless they were hooked for an 8 year run or more).  Still, I doubled my income when I got out.  Kinda wish I had that extra two years.

Tylus really overlooked the big picture.  All the "extra" stuff like money, tuition reimbursement, and (hold me back) SHORE DUTY is  available in abundance when you get out of the Navy.  Not to mention the time that you get to live your life.  He is sitting on shore duty right now, and so am I.  But I can't get transferred to a fast attack out of Guam next week with no notice.

Gotta figure that a guy who got to be an MM2 at the three year point, why is he still an MM1/SS?  With all this new Early Promotion crap, a genius like that ought to be at least a Chief by now.  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he sees his current job as a "paid vacation."

He wasn't hard to figure out -- even with his somewhat stylistic

formatting

and

line breaks.

He's the guy who's always trying to squeeze the juice from the rind while the rest of us are cutting into a fresh new piece of fruit.  For all his talk about us being Navy-haters, he had precious little to say that was positive about the Navy except for the few bucks he thinks he got over on them for.

All you newbies out there reading this should learn a little something.  Don't be full of yourself.  Don't validate your mistakes by convincing others to follow you.  And, if you love what you are doing, the money will follow, but if you hate it the money won't make it better.

[bradley535]

Holy Cow! I think I'm walking into a hornets' nest on this one, but here is my two cents on this topic... I don't need to add two cents.

Why should I bother? There is a vast amount of posts/advice/knowledge all over this site. Please look it up before you make your decision. Spend four hours here looking through here before you commit. We are talking about a minimum of 2-years of your life; take the time to get the answers.

This site is a well-fount of knowledge and experience, and it's all at your fingertips. Please read the posts in Money Matters, Getting In, and (where this is posted) Navy:Staying In. That's a lot of reading, but I'm sure that anyone reading this is internet savvy and can filter for content.

Tylus is correct, there are benefits to reenlisting: Money, Shore-duty, Rank, etc... It is sometimes hard to put in perspective that in 4-years getting out has it's rewards that overcompensate for that; so, these immediate benefits sometimes look more tantalizing. I have to say, they are an illusion. Delayed gratification will net a greater monetary gain overall. Keep in mind that every year staying in is a year that you are missing out on advancing in the commercial sector. If you already know that's where you are wanting to be, then why not be there sooner?

To put it simply, there is only one reason to reenlist, and if you are really looking for advice, then that reason doesn't apply to you. Reenlist only if you like what you are doing and want to keep doing it. I am a rare breed in this. I desperately wanted to reenlist. I loved my job in the Navy. I hated leaving it. But even with all of that, I was a six and out. Why? Because I love my wife and son even more, and I never saw them. The Navy owns you for as long as you are in, and they will use what they own. Six months at a time... Gone. Dry dock refit/overhaul... Good as gone. Duty 1 out of every 3/4 days... Gone. Even when we were not deployed, out to sea for over 1/3 the days... Gone. I had to pick one or the other; Navy or family, and the Navy didn't stand a chance.

Now I'm out in the commercial world, and it's pretty darn nice out here. I still miss my Navy days, but everybody I know that stayed in when they didn't have my love for the job is sorry they did. Every. Single. One. I'm sure there are a few cases of those who arm-twist reenlist and end up loving the choice, but they are rare cases.

My point is, don't stay in unless you at least like what you are doing. Even if I (and everyone else) am completely wrong about the monetary compensation (which we aren't), money is not everything.

Everything you need to make your decision is posted here, just do a little digging... Okay, do a lot of digging. Don't stop until you know what you are going to do and why. You can go back to your boat and have more information about the whys and why-nots than anyone else there. Keep us posted.


I think I failed to not add my two cents.

[Preciousblue1965]

Regardless of the rantings of Tylus, I have to admit there are some benefits, albeit very short term in nature, to the zone A STAR re-enlistment. 

Re-upping would be beneficial for an E4 who was attached to a carrier in the following ways:

-E5 promotion makes you eligible for BAH right off the bat, thus making it easier to move off of the ship and out into town. 
-If you are a hard charger, you can get E6 in around 4 years, thus allowing you to get head of the line privleages during chow.
-You get a nice big bonus, which you can use to pay off bills or establish some personal long term goods such as furniture, savings, or purchase a decent car. 
-you get paid more for doing the same job as the E4s that haven't re-upped.  Thus make slightly more money during your time on board.
-Moves you up in the "Liberty Call" hierachy, thus increases liberty time by a few hours(a real problem on a carrier).

Like I said these benefits are good in the short term, but they can make life a little less miserable during the time on board.  However, these are only good for zone A.  Anything past that, you are just simply selling your soul for XXXX amount of dollars over the next XXXX number of years. 

[TJ Nuke]

Barack ran out of money .  As my father would say, the issue is now moot until next fiscal year, by then the decision should be easier.

[jsilvavalentin]

Well, from my experience, there are many factors that go into someone's decision to reenlist or not. Regardless, I like many others here believe that waiting until being on your ship long enough to decide whether you like this or not is the way to do it. Plus, you do not always lose money when waiting to STAR. My case, I was on hold in the pipeline for about a year and a half total, and ended up on a precomm for my first ship. Most of my buddies STAR-ed for between $35k and 45k. I made E-5, then reenlisted for less time and got $60k. So, I get out before them by several months and got on average $20k more in reenlistment bonus. Why did I reenlist? I weighed my goals to my situation. I went to a Precomm almost at my 3yr point. I realized the instant I got there that while it would have been a great deal to get out with only maybe 30 days of total sea time, that I wanted more experience out of the navy before getting out. I wanted to qualify more than CRW, I wanted to do more. So I reenlisted. If I decide to stay on the ship and just get out, I'll get out with just over 8 yrs in the Navy. I'll have over 2 yrs of PPWS experience, and I will have truly enjoyed doing my job. If I decide to go to NPTU for a shore tour before getting out, I'll do it because of my desire to achieve the goals I set forth back when I was a nub doing VML while on hold in MARF, get out with my degree and EOOW qualified. And even now that I have learned more over the years, regardless of how "worthless" it might be when I get out that I qualified EOOW as an enlisted person, I will have achieved all of my goals in my time in. Someone's time in the Navy, whether it is 6, 8, or 20 years should be a compilation of goals and what you want to achieve in life balanced out with the other factors in your life. I am glad I got to be on hold and that I worked for the people I worked for. I think I got way more out of it and learned way more than if I had gone to some ship and worked for some first or chief walking around with a shovel. These people pretty much made me become what I am now, and taught me that you can be one of the best without being a diggit. They taught me to have pride in my job and for that I will be thankful the rest of my life. Now, if you love the Navy and want to stay in, make Master Chief or Capt, more power to you. Some good people have to stay and keep our nuclear fleet the best there is. Now if someone wants to get out, they did their time and served honorably doing the exact same job you do, and are entitled to move on to something better without having to be called any names

[Already Gone]

Now, there's a well-thought-out course of action.  Those are very valid - though still very personal - reasons to STAR.

Setting goals - regardless of whether you finally achieve them - is the adult way of planning for your future.

The CCC's who dwell on the money do it because it is what works when trying to sell immature, uncertain, and disaffected young sailors.

"Sure it will suck a lot less if you get more $$$.  You'll get to move off the ship or out of the barracks.  Yadda, yadda, yadda."

If you are 20 - 23 years old, and want an apartment and a cool car, you can get that crap by shipping over.  If you are thinking of your career development, you can get that also by shipping over.  Either way, you have to give at least two more years of your young productive life to get what you want.  Now, ask yourself which of the above is worth it.  When you are trading your future for the immediate gratification of an extra stripe and some money that won't last very long, it isn't a fair trade.  When you are trading your future for a better one, that is a good deal.

Either way, without a calibrated crystal ball, you are betting on the unknown.  So don't bet more than you are willing to lose.  And have a plan that will work.

[DDMurray]

Now, there's a well-thought-out course of action.  Those are very valid - though still very personal - reasons to STAR.

Setting goals - regardless of whether you finally achieve them - is the adult way of planning for your future.

The CCC's who dwell on the money do it because it is what works when trying to sell immature, uncertain, and disaffected young sailors.

"Sure it will suck a lot less if you get more $$$.  You'll get to move off the ship or out of the barracks.  Yadda, yadda, yadda."

If you are 20 - 23 years old, and want an apartment and a cool car, you can get that crap by shipping over.  If you are thinking of your career development, you can get that also by shipping over.  Either way, you have to give at least two more years of your young productive life to get what you want.  Now, ask yourself which of the above is worth it.  When you are trading your future for the immediate gratification of an extra stripe and some money that won't last very long, it isn't a fair trade.  When you are trading your future for a better one, that is a good deal.

Either way, without a calibrated crystal ball, you are betting on the unknown.  So don't bet more than you are willing to lose.  And have a plan that will work.

Getting out of the Navy is also betting on the unknown.  I know many who post here were 6 and outs (or < 20 and outs) and have done well for themselves.   Many people get out because they want to spend more time with their families.  Some get out because they absolutely hate it.  As I previously posted, the things you do to be successful in the navy will also help you when you get out.  People who stay in sometimes have a hard time not coming across as a “digit” so that they are automatically discounted by those who couldn’t handle it or decided to take their skills elsewhere.

There is an intangible benefit of being a successful navy nuke.  You are good at something that most people don’t understand or, if they do understand, they lack the skills or desire to be successful.  However, if you dislike being a nuke so much that your behavior affects your and/or others’ performance, you should get out.  Make a decision and don’t look back!

Don’t get pissed, re-enlist!
-Derek

[Neutron Whisperer]

Tylus has cognitive dissonance.

And, it seems (s)he...

Can't be a "she" and an "MM1/SS".