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Offline nowhereman

Employee Free Choice Act
« on: May 19, 2009, 11:37 »
From what I have read (and watched a few IBEW videos) that the Employee Free Choice Act will allow a majority card sign up approach to establishing a union,  doing away with the 45 day period (that period of time thats has HR doing overtime, planning BBQ's for all..or have us watching videos of why unions are bad.)  prior to an election.  and it will also allow a choice for a secret ballot instead.

My son is in retail management  for a large corporation(not wally world or 7-11) and the HR department is in a tizzie  about the move through New York City with unionizing the individual $tarbuck$ stores....do you think that could be the playbook for getting the IBEW or NPUA   a union foot in the door at an outage?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:12 by BeerCourt »

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 12:36 »
Even if ya DO want a union...imagine what happens when this non-secret ballot is taken, and the vote fails to meet the criteria for certifying the union (yes, that does occasionally happen).

A crossfire of mgmt. retaliating against those voting for, and peer to peer retaliation for voting against.... no way that could happen, right?  :-\
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:12 by BeerCourt »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 04:38 »
....do you think that could be the playbook for getting the IBEW or NPUA   a union foot in the door at an outage?

yessir!  'n itsa weigh to counteract old court rulings establishing secret ballot vote asa way to thwart union thuggery 'n peer pressure dat usta bee used two frustrate 'n exacerbate individual writes during union votes.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:12 by BeerCourt »
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act ?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 09:10 »
Alright.  That's it.  I'm pulling the plug. If you want to debate union or no union, do it in the topic already established for that.

This topic is limited strictly to the subject of the EFCA.

I suggest that some of you actually READ the legislation before offering your uninformed opinions.

There is absolutely NO provision to take away the secret ballot.

Since most of you won't bother to educate yourselves prior to offering an opinion (NO!  Listening to Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh to find out what they think you should think is NOT an education) I'll sum it up.

Currently, if an employee of a company gets 30% or more of his fellow employees to sign cards for a particular union, he can present the cards to the employer who can chose to accept the union as the bargaining agent for his employees OR the employer can demand an election by secret ballot.  If the majority vote is in favor of the union, the NLRB will certify the union as the representative of the employees.

Under the proposed law, the employees have the choice as to whether they accept the signed cards or whether they will require a vote.  Even if there is a majority in favor of the union as indicated by the majority having signed cards, a vote (by secret ballot) will still be required as long as 30% or more of the employees petition for one.  If the majority have signed cards and do not sucessfully petition for a vote, the NLRB will certify the union as the bargaining agent for the employees.

The only difference between the current law and the EFCA is that the choice of whether or not to have a secret ballot shifts from the employer to the employees.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 10:54 by BeerCourt »
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rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 09:17 »
So, the union folks walk around the plant, offering cards for signature - which they collect.
They KNOW who wants unionized and who does not want unionized by observing (and listing?) those who did not sign.
Trust me, they won't stop at 30%, they'll confront every employee at the site and play the "sign it or make the list" game.
Their logic would be based on avoiding the private vote by having a large number of signed cards.

That, Mr BC, is a public poll. It subjects people to identification, harassment and intimidation. If unions had been careful to never harass
nor intimidate people, nobody would draw these conclusions. Fact is - history speaks for itself.

Not only should we READ the legislation entitled with words like "Free Choice", we should THINK about how it plays out, which looks alot more like something out of 1930s Chicago. Free choice should come along with avoiding even the appearance of the possibility of coercion or intimidation.

RLBINC - IBEW Local 51 Withdrawal Card Number BA4411872
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:40 by rlbinc »

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 09:35 »
Yes, but thinking about it is only productive if we open our minds to the realities involved.

There is NOTHING in your description of the process which does not or cannot occur under the current law.  The EFCA is not going to create the circumstances which you describe - because they already exist.

Do you really think that only the unions harass, intimidate, coerce or threaten employees?  Maybe you haven't gone to work lately, but there is an implied threat of termination, disciplinary action, reassignment, loss of pay and benefits, and a holy host of other un-pleasantries in every hour that you work for an employer.  If they think you are pro-union, or for any other reason - including no reason at all - they can destroy you without the need to "wink-wink" at you first.

Now, go back and READ what I wrote.  A union cannot avoid the vote - no matter how big the majority have signed cards - if the employees opt for a vote.  If the employees feel that they were intimidated into signing the cards, they can always withdraw them, or petition for a secret ballot.  Under current law, they do not have the right to petition for a secret ballot under any circumstances.  That option is currently only available to the employer.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 10:51 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 09:45 »
I understand and respect your position.
I remain a firm believer in strictly private ballots for the reasons described.
Enough said.
Best Wishes to you.


Offline Already Gone

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 09:48 »
Yeah, the secret ballot does have a place in my patriotic heart as well.  Given the hypothetical situation that I were an employee who had signed a card, I would still also sign the petition for a secret ballot.  But, I would want it to be my choice and that of my coworkers, and NOT a stall tactic that our employer could use to bring in the "Pinkertons".
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 12:31 »
What happened to Honey Comb's entry?
Hope he wasn't a beneficiary of the Employee Free Speech Act.  :)

rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 01:37 »
You never know who is reading, huh?
You don't feel comfortable letting them know what you THINK, how can you let them know how you voted?
It's minority rule, the way they prefer it.

rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 01:48 »
Q.E.D.

(won't my High School Latin teacher be impressed...)

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 03:05 »
What happened to Honey Comb's entry?
Hope he wasn't a beneficiary of the Employee Free Speech Act.  :)

Well, ya see...HoneyComb is an accomplished pilot, but he started messing with his computer and electrical stuff, while flying and texting at the same time.....and you can see where it went:


Offline nowhereman

Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 03:18 »
I am not quite sure what  h.i.r.d. issues would come of this voting or card signing,  just looking at the "wish list" for spring and fall for the last two years, I'm not sure how it could get worse than that.. unless you have some secret agreement that you only stand PCM;s and after you vote/sign, they throw you in the drywell...... (could you tell me how to get to the drywell? )  lol...

Actually I'm more concerned about a cornerstone for Jr. hp contractor training.....You finally find a plant that brings in a viable Jr HP crew.....and then you find out that you don't have time to give the Jr's  on the job training, because all your doing is running from one valve  breach to the next...and then the only contractor  HP development program  I see is finding which country that they can go to next.....I'm thinking maybe Ukraine next, who knows, this fall I will see what happens..

actually back to point....if a union could push for a legitimate bona fide jr contractor training program, then, maybe we could justify stabilizing our wages/per diem.....

 and until then.... you are going to throw some dedicated deconners in a corner, with some Hp procedure books,  make sure the HP's (sr and jr) pass the meter reading test.....thats the status quo of the contract HP industry at this point....with no incentive to change.
and then you want to ask for higher wages?  That is putting the cart before the horse....

Be nice to your JR's, one day you will be working for them...



rlbinc

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Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 04:03 »
Favorite Quotes:

"I didn't say we wouldn't get our hair mussed, 10 to 20 million killed, tops."

"Well boys, this is it, toe to toe nucular combat with the rooskies."

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Employee Free Choice Act
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 04:11 »
Favorite Quotes:

"I didn't say we wouldn't get our hair mussed, 10 to 20 million killed, tops."

"Well boys, this is it, toe to toe nucular combat with the rooskies."

Depending where they landed, could cause California and New York and Illinois to become Red states, where they would then go right-to-work vs. closed shop....and then a secret ballot! (how's that for getting back on-topic, kinda?  ;D

 


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