NPUA

[RAD-GHOST]

+Karma to HeatherB.......

That was rather Inspirational........

Actually I believe you've missed the educational value of this threat........"How to tell the Players from the Sayers"!

It's actually quite easy........

Have a great one, RG!

[mostlyharmless]

+Karma to HeatherB.......



Actually I believe you've missed the educational value of this threat........"

Freudian slip?

My only experience with the unions was at Shoreham years ago. We were forced to join. We did not have to, we just would not have a job there if we didnt. I believe we got a dollar an hr raise. We were a union in name only. We payed dues but could not strike or benefit the same as other union brothers.
It would be great to have an organization with bargaining power to represent my interests. I remember the jr, tech perdiem being less than sr. techs. I could not find the jr tech hotel rates or the jr tech food rates. Now I still am at the mercy of the company.Either take it or leave.
But organizing techs is like herding cats. There is allways someone willing to work for what ever is offered. And you cant blame someone for wanting to support their family. It will only happen when the plants cannot run because of a tech shortage.
And then there is the are they going to rip me off idea. Were do the dues go? Will we price ourselves out of work?. Perhaps this is an overly simplistic view. I would like to see it work,but will keep a close eye on it.  I have a basic mistrust of unions, but you can not count on the company to look out for you're best interest.
I like my unions like I like my government,small but powerfull and less intrusive. I dont want to feel like I work for the union,the union should work for me.
.I wish you folks would post in the safety section as much as you post here.MH

[nuke_girl]

       

I give up... I've been attempting to follow this thread (pathetic, really). And all I've really come to realize is that I am a mere peon. A plebe... a worker bee... a nothing. I've learned the basic regard of Safety guys & "old school" RP's towards the masses of hard working RP's is that of contempt. And to top it off, I'm only a mere Jr. HP ~~~ *GASP* ~~~ so I can only imagine the snarky comments that will illicit. I have such nerve... I know!

I've learned that the squeakiest wheel gets the grease (or the effort of many a reply, anyways). No real solutions offered by ANYONE... just a lot of defensive posturing & excuses. Bullying & intimidation isn't left in the schoolyard... it's alive & well on this board.

I don't care who's been doing this longest, who has the most experience, who works harder, who's married to whom & who's being paid by what advertiser. I come on this board looking for answers, guidance, suggestions & support. I found NONE of those here... great job everyone. This REDONKULOUS thread is (in a nutshell) what's going so terminally wrong with this industry. We all deserve respect, courtesy, integrity, high regard, civility, and compassion etc.etc. ESPECIALLY FROM EACH OTHER!!!

I have been debating on paying my $$$ and becoming a gold member for a few months, but looking on this board has become a futile effort.

WHAT WAS THE FREAKIN' POST ABOUT AGAIN??? Talk about an epic fail...

This was the best part of this thread...oh and when Brett said his Dad could beat up your dad

[Smart People]

       

I give up... I've been attempting to follow this thread (pathetic, really). And all I've really come to realize is that I am a mere peon. A plebe... a worker bee... a nothing. I've learned the basic regard of Safety guys & "old school" RP's towards the masses of hard working RP's is that of contempt. And to top it off, I'm only a mere Jr. HP ~~~ *GASP* ~~~ so I can only imagine the snarky comments that will illicit. I have such nerve... I know!

I've learned that the squeakiest wheel gets the grease (or the effort of many a reply, anyways). No real solutions offered by ANYONE... just a lot of defensive posturing & excuses. Bullying & intimidation isn't left in the schoolyard... it's alive & well on this board.

I don't care who's been doing this longest, who has the most experience, who works harder, who's married to whom & who's being paid by what advertiser. I come on this board looking for answers, guidance, suggestions & support. I found NONE of those here... great job everyone. This REDONKULOUS thread is (in a nutshell) what's going so terminally wrong with this industry. We all deserve respect, courtesy, integrity, high regard, civility, and compassion etc.etc. ESPECIALLY FROM EACH OTHER!!!

I have been debating on paying my $$$ and becoming a gold member for a few months, but looking on this board has become a futile effort.

WHAT WAS THE FREAKIN' POST ABOUT AGAIN??? Talk about an epic fail...

HeatherB, Don' let the cynicism of us old timers turn off your enthusiasm for the work.

This thread has become one of the most heated discussions i have ever seen on the forum, Poly-Sci included. Even some heavy hitters on the site seem to have found themselves crawling in the gutter. That should give you some indication of how touchy this subject is.

Being new probably means you have yet to see this conversation in the break room where chairs are nearly thrown. the union argument has been going on for decades.

Ask some real questions on this thread, hopefully you will get real answers, on both sides of the fence.

As far as gold member, I say do it. We love to have another voice in the discussion. just wear your flack jacket at all times and keep your hands inside the vehicle.

+karma by the way

[Rennhack]

I am most familiar with the safety aspect so I’ll throw in my 2-cents on that.  This is just my opinion.

Unlike Senior RP Technicians, there is no ANSI standard for a safety rep.  Unlike Senior RP Technicians, the minimum number of safety reps on site is not dictated by the operating license.  Unlike a Senior RP Technician, the safety rep is not required to pass an entrance exam (excluding the MMPI and GET).

At a typical refueling outage, the primary outage contractor like DZ, Shaw/S&W, or Fluor will hire 2 or maybe 3 safety reps.  At the same outage there may be 75 Senior RP Technicians hired, in addition to the 20 or 30 house techs.   No wonder we don’t see safety in the plant as much as we would expect!  Now let’s say those 2 or 3 safety reps tell Mr. Site Manager “no way José, we want more!”    More money!  More per diem!  More travel pay!  More Security!  What would happen?  They would get the boot and the niece of Mr. Site Manager would step up and fill the void.  No questions asked.  You can’t pull that crap with an ANSI qualified Senior RP Technician or the myriad of other true professionals that cannot be so easily replaced as the friendly safety dude or dudette.

Good observation. K+

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Ok, hopefully I've made this back into a thread about the NPUA.  I'll delete this post once y'all get rolling again.  Sorry for the delay in the discussion.  (It was fun censoring the webmaster too!) 

[Camella Black]

Okay, I have a question or two...

A. If the union is not open to anyone other than current/active RP's/HP's then how come one of the officers is no longer in the business?

B. If you can be retired and still join the union, then could lets say a housewife who "used" to work in the business as a Junior join? Or someone who spent 10, 15 years working but went on the something else join?

C. And why isn't this union open to other workers that support nuclear workers or work in a nuclear environment? (There was a list somewhere but it went to lala land).

D. Can someone in the know answer these questions?

[Rennhack]

Ok, hopefully I've made this back into a thread about the NPUA.  I'll delete this post once y'all get rolling again.  Sorry for the delay in the discussion.  (It was fun censoring the webmaster too!) 

Hey, where did all of our comments go?  Why didn't you split them off to another post?  What I had to say was important.  Stop censoring me.

[RAD-GHOST]

Okay, I have a question or two...

A. If the union is not open to anyone other than current/active RP's/HP's then how come one of the officers is no longer in the business?

B. If you can be retired and still join the union, then could lets say a housewife who "used" to work in the business as a Junior join? Or someone who spent 10, 15 years working but went on the something else join?

C. And why isn't this union open to other workers that support nuclear workers or work in a nuclear environment? (There was a list somewhere but it went to lala land).

D. Can someone in the know answer these questions?

You answered this question yourself, an “OFFICER”!  Officers represent the agenda of the group from a business perspective, not an in the field perspective.  Strange as it may seem, an officer may actually have to hang up their field career for a while to pursue the agenda of their elected position.  I’ve been a member of a couple of unions and the executive board members did not and we’re not allowed to actively engage in field duties during their terms.  That’s why officers are paid for their elected positions.  I don’t know the NPUA rules of election, but you may be eligible to run for office. You would probably have to be voted in by the ACTIVE membership.  You would be surprised at how many officers, of many unions, who are basically clueless as to what their members do!  Then again, you would also be surprised on how strong they are at the business aspects!  

Most unions maintain a standard for membership forever!  There is a difference between ACTIVE and INACTIVE membership.  Both will be on the books, but only active members will have voting rights.  I currently hold white cards in two unions, which means I am still on the books as a member, but have no rights to vote on any union issue.  Both of those unions have criteria to be considered active; pay the required dues and a working member of a shop under their union’s contract.  Both are Required!

That’s called AGENDA!  Have you asked that same question to the other unions who represent other crafts at nuclear facilities…Carpenters, Boiler Makers, Operators and the list goes on!  Why do each of those trade have a separate and unique union, instead of just one?

Now I have to spin the lazy susan 180 and pose a question.  If I walk up to you and informed you that I have not actively participated in your venue because I pursed another.  Then requested you to devulge everything you knew about that venue, what would your second question be?

I already know the first.....WHY?

Just an opinion and NOT that of the NPUA...

RG!

[Camella Black]

You answered this question yourself, an “OFFICER”!  Officers represent the agenda of the group from a business perspective, not an in the field perspective.  Strange as it may seem, an officer may actually have to hang up their field career for a while to pursue the agenda of their elected position.  I’ve been a member of a couple of unions and the executive board members did not and we’re not allowed to actively engage in field duties during their terms.  That’s why officers are paid for their elected positions.  I don’t know the NPUA rules of election, but you may be eligible to run for office. You would probably have to be voted in by the ACTIVE membership.  You would be surprised at how many officers, of many unions, who are basically clueless as to what their members do!  Then again, you would also be surprised on how strong they are at the business aspects!  

Most unions maintain a standard for membership forever!  There is a difference between ACTIVE and INACTIVE membership.  Both will be on the books, but only active members will have voting rights.  I currently hold white cards in two unions, which means I am still on the books as a member, but have no rights to vote on any union issue.  Both of those unions have criteria to be considered active; pay the required dues and a working member of a shop under their union’s contract.  Both are Required!

That’s called AGENDA!  Have you asked that same question to the other unions who represent other crafts at nuclear facilities…Carpenters, Boiler Makers, Operators and the list goes on!  Why do each of those trade have a separate and unique union, instead of just one?

Now I have to spin the lazy susan 180 and pose a question.  If I walk up to you and informed you that I have not actively participated in your venue because I pursed another.  Then requested you to devulge everything you knew about that venue, what would your second question be?

I already know the first.....WHY?
Just an opinion and NOT that of the NPUA...

RG!

Thank you for your answer, it was clear and informative until the last part of your reply; please tell me can you and others not answer a question without being sarcastic and demeaning? I don't know what your problem is with me, but I have every right to ask questions, as I've stated before I have an interest.

Tell me this, why in the world can you state this "You would be surprised at how many officers, of many unions, who are basically clueless as to what their members do!" and then question my attempt to understand the structure of the NPUA?

Anyone else care to answer my question minus the personal attack?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Hey, where did all of our comments go? 

They flew through cyberspace.

Why didn't you split them off to another post?  What I had to say was important.  Stop censoring me.

You mean like this place? 
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,24610.0.html   

[HenryBlack]

Okay, I have a question or two...


C. And why isn't this union open to other workers that support nuclear workers or work in a nuclear environment? (There was a list somewhere but it went to lala land).

I have read the Constitution of the NPUA and nowhere does it mention RP/HP. It actually states:


Section 1. This organization shall be composed of men and women employed in and around the nuclear energy sector and related industries and organizations, including entities that are the successors, subsidiaries, affiliates, mergers and acquisitions of employers whose employees are represented by the union, and any other place now under the jurisdiction of the National Union as well as officers, staff representatives or employees of the National Union. The union shall admit to membership all who apply and conform to the Constitution and Bylaws. Persons having supervisory power, excluding the right to hire and fire, shall be eligible for membership subject to the approval of the National Union.


So I am wondering why doesn't the NPUA try to organize other groups of Nuclear workers that don't have Collective Bargaining Agreements. I was really interested in joining this union but I haven't seen any reason to so far. The posts that I have seen here on Nukeworker alone would keep from joining. I understand from reading your website that I3 is bidding on all of the Fall outages. I would believe that most if not all Fall Outages already have contracts in place. Its getting a little bit close to outage season to be placing bids now( even though the news section was updated June 13).

Do you think it is possible to reach an agreement with Bartlett now for outages that they have already bid on and have contracts for a set amount of money. I don't think trying to Bankrupt a company is the right way to go about it. And I believe people trying to force Bartlett to the bargaining table when they are working on an existing contract is not the right thing to do. Maybe you should look at trying to get a CBA with Bartlett or whoever for upcoming contracts that haven't been bid on yet. This isn't something that is  going to happen overnight.

All of this is my opinion and mine alone. I remember the last time when the IBEW tried to organize RP's and they went about it the wrong way too. They failed and that is what will happen to the NPUA, if you aren't very careful. I myself would like to see the NPUA succeed in this endeavor,  but only if you go about it in the proper manner.

[Rennhack]

Do you think it is possible to reach an agreement with Bartlett now for outages that they have already bid on and have contracts for a set amount of money.

It is not possible.

Contracts area bid as such:

Billing Rate = Worker Pay Rate + Costs (Tax's & Insurance) + Overhead + Profit

These costs are fixed percentages.  The amount of money the employer has to pay in Federal & State taxes, FICA, unemployment insurance, and workers comp, are all fixed percentages (Different companies can negotiate different workers comp rates based on their safety record).  The only way to adjust overhead is to fire office employees, and I don’t think we want them to let the payroll lady or the recruiter go.  The only adjustable number is the desired profit, which typically is fixed at ~3% for successful companies.  You could add more profit to your proposal, but then you’ll lose the bid on the contract.  Below are some examples.

Billing Rate = Worker Pay Rate + Costs (Tax's & Insurance) + Overhead + Profit
Billing Rate = $22.50/hr Pay Rate + 22-36% Direct Costs + 6-12% Overhead + 3-6% Profit

Billing Rate = $22.5/hr Pay Rate + $8.10/hr Direct Costs + $1.35/hr Overhead + $0.68/hr Profit

Billing Rate = $32.63/hr

These are realistic numbers, I can't say that these are Bartlett's exact numbers, (probably a few % high, the actual billing rate is probably lower than that above) but they are realistic.

Conclusion:  I don't see how Bartlett could pay a Union $8-$10/hr more than they can bill on their current contract.

Bartlett doesn’t mind paying people more, if they can win the contract.  Because everything else (profit including) are percent multipliers.  When you get paid more, THEY get paid more.

If you get paid $10/hr, your employer has to pay taxes and insurance at ~36% = $3.60/hr, their overhead is ~6% $0.60/hr (again, just an example I don't know their specific numbers, but they are in the ball park) and their profit would be 3% or $0.30/hr, with a billing rate of $14.5/hr.

If you got paid $100 an hour, then Bartlett would make a profit of $3/hr on you instead of 30 cents.  The more you make, the more they make.  They LOVE paying you more.  That means THEY make more.

If they had to pay a Union $5/hr, and you $35 ($40/hr total), Bartlett wouldn't mind, because then their billing rate would be $58/hr, and $1.20/hr of that would be profit, which is better than the $0.68/per hour they are making on you now. (As long as they got the contract awarded... it's more likely that Atlantic would get the contract because they could bill at $33/hr instead of $58/hr.

I’ve posted these numbers before, and how these contracts really work.  People don’t want to believe the facts.  They want to think Bartlett makes $100/hr on them.  It just isn’t true.  If it was, I’d be in the tech rental business.  But at 67.5 cents an hour profit ($27/week on 40 hrs), it’s not worth the hassle.  I’d rather pick up cans along the road.

[HenryBlack]

I know how this all works and I also know that Bartlett can't pay more than the contract is bid for, without  driving themselves to Bankruptcy. I don't believe it is right for anyone that said they would work for a set amount to try to force any company into paying more by using a Union to bargain for them. If you said you would work for an amount then "Work for that amount until the contract ends or quit and go somewhere else". That is one thing you will never hear me complain about because if I said I would work for a set amount then I will until that contract or the job ends.
Thanks for reposting the info again Mike, but I was really just trying to get some of the posters here to think about what they were saying.

[RAD-GHOST]

Camella, 

I'll issue an apology, but that was not a personal attack.  All unions I've been affiliated with guards their business plans. 

Just like the contract companies.......

RG

[Rennhack]

Thanks for reposting the info again Mike, but I was really just trying to get some of the posters here to think about what they were saying.

Henry,

I wasn't really directing it at you, even thought I quoted you.  It was meant more as in informational post, as people in general thing that the companies make tons of money on us. 

[Chimera]

       

I give up... I've been attempting to follow this thread (pathetic, really). And all I've really come to realize is that I am a mere peon. A plebe... a worker bee... a nothing. I've learned the basic regard of Safety guys & "old school" RP's towards the masses of hard working RP's is that of contempt. And to top it off, I'm only a mere Jr. HP ~~~ *GASP* ~~~ so I can only imagine the snarky comments that will illicit. I have such nerve... I know!

I've learned that the squeakiest wheel gets the grease (or the effort of many a reply, anyways). No real solutions offered by ANYONE... just a lot of defensive posturing & excuses. Bullying & intimidation isn't left in the schoolyard... it's alive & well on this board.

I don't care who's been doing this longest, who has the most experience, who works harder, who's married to whom & who's being paid by what advertiser. I come on this board looking for answers, guidance, suggestions & support. I found NONE of those here... great job everyone. This REDONKULOUS thread is (in a nutshell) what's going so terminally wrong with this industry. We all deserve respect, courtesy, integrity, high regard, civility, and compassion etc.etc. ESPECIALLY FROM EACH OTHER!!!

I have been debating on paying my $$$ and becoming a gold member for a few months, but looking on this board has become a futile effort.

WHAT WAS THE FREAKIN' POST ABOUT AGAIN??? Talk about an epic fail...

Okay, I'm going to throw my two-cents worth in on this one, too.

The squeakiest wheel gets the grease?  In my world, the squeakiest wheel oft times gets replaced.

I've been in this industry for over forty years.  You're a peon?  We all started there.  We were all peons at one time or another.  Union or non-union, you represent the future of our craft.  Without Juniors, there will be no Seniors in the future.  However, some of the "newer" seniors have forgotten from whence they came.  As a Tech, I always took a Junior with me whenever possible to help them learn our craft.  Now, as a Supervisor, I pair my Juniors with different Seniors so they can gain the experience they will need when they become Seniors themselves.

Frankly, some of my Juniors are more capable and knowledgeable than some of my Seniors.  Don't let the discussions in here or at work jaundice your opinions of all of us or of our craft.

This union versus non-union discussion has been going on for over thirty years amongst the roadies.  Some want a louder voice in their own futures and some just want more money.  Most have never had to bid on a contract and don't really know what all is entailed in that process.  Some have been in unions in the past and want that protection while others want nothing to do with the politics and in-fighting they saw.

I don't know the answers.  I only know what feels right to me based on over forty years of experience in this industry on all sides of the fence.  I have seen the positives and negatives of both sides of the discussion.

But one thing I do know for sure.  You Juniors are the upcoming heart-beat of our craft.  Don't let us old fogies turn you off to this profession.  Listen, learn, and come to your own conclusions.

Michael

[MR BIG]

Conclusion:  I don't see how Bartlett could pay a Union $8-$10/hr more than they can bill on their current contract.

Bartlett doesn’t mind paying people more, if they can win the contract.  Because everything else (profit including) are percent multipliers.  When you get paid more, THEY get paid more.



I don't know why this is so difficult to understand? It's NOT trying to cut into the Bartlett's or Atlantic's profit margin. It's getting the UTILITIES attention to bring the contract back onto the negotiating table. The higher wages and benefits will pass on to the utility. The tech companies will STILL make their 3-6% profit. It's the utilities that need to get off their billfolds.....not the billing company. I thought everyone understood this! The utilities have increased the wages in practically every other craft associated with their outages. Why not RPs & Deconners?

[Camella Black]

I'd just like to comment that I took "Frank's" advice and I emailed him; I recieved a quick, informative and might I had friendly reply within hours of emailing him... this was after he took the time to say he was at work and would get back to me afterwards.

He answered my questions without being demeaning or sarcastic. I have to say thankyou, thankyou, thankyou!

[Rennhack]

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand? It's NOT trying to cut into the Bartlett's or Atlantic's profit margin. It's getting the UTILITIES attention to bring the contract back onto the negotiating table. The higher wages and benefits will pass on to the utility. The tech companies will STILL make their 3-6% profit. It's the utilities that need to get off their billfolds.....not the billing company. I thought everyone understood this! The utilities have increased the wages in practically every other craft associated with their outages. Why not RPs & Deconners?

Amen

[Old Dude]

A union is only as strong as its members.
That said, the NPUA need people to join our ranks.
You do not have to be a paying member, but it would help.
Call us (832) 628-6782  or write  
NPUA
17424 W. Grand Parkway S. #176
Sugarland, Tx 77479-2564
We will be glad to answer your questions.
The best thing you can do now is go to NPUA.org and sign the authorization cards.
Most of our members are HP techs, but we are not exclusive,
We accept everyone who would like to join as long as you are in the nuclear field.
The process to be a union is this:
1.    30% of a company workforce signs an authorization card. (All names are kept secret)
2.    The information is sent to the National Labor Relations Board.
3.     The NLRB sends out ballots for the workers to vote for a union.
4.    If 50% plus 1 workers vote for the union than the company is notified.
5.    NPUA will begin contract negotiations.
6.   The union rank and file votes on ratification of the contract.
7.   You are now a union with collective bargaining.
Strength in numbers, go to NPUA.org and sign the authorization cards.
Let’s get started!

[mostlyharmless]

How bout folks that work at doe sites?

[RAD-GHOST]

Camella, That's Great News....

MR BIG......

VOGEL......

I hate to toss that one on this thread, but last seasons outage at VOGEL goes to point!

I've heard a lot of reasons for Vogels RP staffing problems last outage.  Primarily the way they treated their supplimental RP staff in prior years.  Although most people would displace that fact by assigning it as a rumors, I couldn't find any rumors to the contrary.  Over and above their 20th century wage package, they managed to toss out a $10.00/hr bonus, ($15.00 for overtime hours).  Imagine that, Southern Company increasing the overall compensation on the plantation by 43%.....

WOW, they found the addition funds for a fluke!  BUT, was it...........

That situation didn't hurt the contract company, or cut into their profit margine.

Best rumor wins....RG!

[Jr8black3]

No dog in this fight, I back away cause I can choose to do what I want to to do.

I will tell you this I've known Mike Renneck and his family for many years, he went from nothing to somthing..

He has a great site here that alot of folks enjoy, I don't think NPUA has a clue. Every person out there has a choice, NPUA will take that choice away, I like the ability to decide what I want to do, hey I might make the wrong decsion so be it it's me that pays for it.

Is a Union wrong prolly not. But I'm not ready for it..I'm sure they know more then me,, I've only managed to get by for 25 years..

Kevin

PS I do not like it Mike is taking crap for any of this,,Mike did a great thing with this site,, and NO i'm not kissing your ass..

[Sun Dog]

We should not accept lower wages or assignments away from home without per diem just because it is a long-term job.

How could anyone expect to receive a per diem stipend during a job that is expected to last a decade?  Let me clue you in.  If you accept a job that is expected to last a decade you have become a local, and per diem is out of the equation.

JMNSHO