Training Investment

[NukeLDO]

Curious.  The Navy likes to throw around numbers on how much it costs to make your average enlisted sailor.  The last number I heard was around $275K.  What is the commercial industry figure for a licensed operator?  How long does it take the industry to recoup a return on that investment in general?  For those in the business, are you seeing older (mid to late 40s) operators being hired, or are they sticking with the younger crowd to get maximum return on that investment?

[JustinHEMI05]

Hmm well considering it is just about 2 years (actually a little more) before I get on shift showing some benefit to the company, I can say that just based on my personal salary alone over that 2 years, my company has spent just under what you quoted as the cost to make a Navy operator. Add in all the other costs, such as instructors, simulator and any fees I don't know about, it seems they spend quite a bit more. Like I said, its about 2 years before I am really useful to the company.

Justin

[Fermi2]

The Navy is Full Of Crap when they throw that number around.

[co60slr]

Curious.  The Navy likes to throw around numbers on how much it costs to make your average enlisted sailor.  The last number I heard was around $275K.  What is the commercial industry figure for a licensed operator?  How long does it take the industry to recoup a return on that investment in general?  For those in the business, are you seeing older (mid to late 40s) operators being hired, or are they sticking with the younger crowd to get maximum return on that investment?

I've heard $500K tossed around the commercial industry.  However, as Broadzilla articulates, I've never seen a Navy or Commercial number on a spreadsheet.   "Trust, but Verify"...?

As far as hiring practices, I would guess that utilities vary their strategy.  Some don't like to hire ex-Navy or otherwise limit the numbers.  Some don't hire SRO ILTs and prefer to "home grow" them.  Some love to hire ex-Navy retired, which by definition is the 38-48 year old crowd.  I really think it depends on your resume...and most importantly your attitude towards transitioning from Navy to Commercial and how the "Navy Nuke" sells his/her transition strategy to the Company. 

For those in my network, I haven't seen anyone in their 40s that wanted to be an SRO get turned down because of their age.  Although, they may not have gotten their first choice of Company.  However, that statistic is complicated by timing...your retirement/employment date has to line up with a Company's SRO Class-up Date.   In my experience, this was the most challenging job search dilemma.  You drop your papers...maybe without know when your "most desirable Nuke Plant" is starting their next SRO Class.   Then, you're off looking for someone that wants to hire you for their class, which matches when you need the new paycheck to start.   Not an easy process...in my opinion.

Co60

[Fermi2]

Commercial is easy. In most cases for an instant SRO it's at least 225 to 275 K in just salary and bonuses for the candidate.

Mike

[RDTroja]

Commercial is easy. In most cases for an instant SRO it's at least 225 to 275 K in just salary and bonuses for the candidate.

Mike

You also have to average in the cost of the Instructors (most of them also licensed) plus the training support organization including supervision, instructor trainers, facilities management and massive amounts of work that goes into accreditiation (and reaccreditiation) of the  training programs. I am sure the real cost number is much higher than you state.

[Fermi2]

Those are impossible to break down on an individual basis. Say you have an instructor at 80K a year. You place 20 students through. That's 4K a year per student and that is assuming that Instructor teaches 8 hours a day, which they don't.

Mike

[RDTroja]

Those are impossible to break down on an individual basis. Say you have an instructor at 80K a year. You place 20 students through. That's 4K a year per student and that is assuming that Instructor teaches 8 hours a day, which they don't.

Mike

I agree that it is a difficult number to pinpoint, but considering that we have about 30 Ops instructors alone, there is a lot of money being spent. Also consider that an Instructor does not have to be teaching all day to be active in the training program. There are many things that instructors do that don't necessarily place them in the classroom. Training budgets are HUGE, not counting the trainees' salaries.

I am not sure where you got your $80K figure from, but at that number our training department would be nothing but vacancies.

[Fermi2]

Rectal Pluck! JUst any easy number to divide by 20.

[thenuttyneutron]

Do we count the high fail rate of DSROs in the cost per license?  If you calculate just the cost of a single failure, it would be undefined.  Try dividing anything by zero and you will get similar results.

[co60slr]

Do we count the high fail rate of DSROs in the cost per license?  If you calculate just the cost of a single failure, it would be undefined.  Try dividing anything by zero and you will get similar results.

This actually brings us back to NukeLDO's original question.  Time to recoup the training investment?  If you spend X dollars on an instant SRO and he/she fails out after 18 months, then your training costs remains unchanged (the SROI and instructors still got paid).  However, you'll never recoup the "investment".   In other words, you went to Vegas and came home empty handed.  That is certainly not an "undefined" number to an accountant.

So, when does a utility consider the SRO's ILT program to be paid off?   Perhaps the first time he successfully navigates a problem and keeps the breaker shut.   Maybe after three years?  When does the SRO incur more liability for the company?  Inadvertent plant trip perhaps?  (How much does THAT cost a utility?!)

Some utilities provide a retention bonus for Licensed Operators.  For example, stay on board for five years and after 60 months you get $50K (in addition to licensing bonus, performance bonus, etc).  That implies, much like the NNPP bonus structure that it's easier to write a check for $50K and keep someone than it is to spend [insert the six figure number guess here] and start over.

In the end, Utilities are not losing any money...or they wouldn't do it. 

Co60

[NukeLDO]

Well....I didn't expect there would be an easy answer to the question...

[co60slr]

Well....I didn't expect there would be an easy answer to the question...

...especially with this group.  ;-)