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jong1239

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got caught
« on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:14 »
ok so i got caught with pot on a piss test.... now what do i do? do i still have potential in the civilian nuke field? thanks guys.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: got caught
« Reply #1 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:32 »
ok so i got caught with pot on a piss test.... now what do i do? do i still have potential in the civilian nuke field? thanks guys.

If you look at your situation as getting "caught" and don't plan to change your lifestyle, then nuclear power isn't for you.

If you take a long, hard look at your life...and realize you have a drug problem...and go to rehab and come out clean...and THEN try to get unescorted access, you can probably still end up with a successful career...

Good luck.
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2009, 07:36 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline NukeLDO

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Re: got caught
« Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:35 »
Go home, tell Mom and Dad why you got kicked out.  Find someone who will hire someone with a dishonorable discharge...perhaps the local quickie-mart or gas station.  As was made clear many times, we have no tolerance for those that use.  :-[ :'(
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

Offline DDMurray

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Re: got caught
« Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:42 »
ok so i got caught with pot on a piss test.... now what do i do? do i still have potential in the civilian nuke field? thanks guys.

I think Judge Smails said it best, "The world needs ditch diggers too." 
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:43 »
Go home, tell Mom and Dad why you got kicked out.  Find someone who will hire someone with a dishonorable discharge...perhaps the local quickie-mart or gas station.  As was made clear many times, we have no tolerance for those that use.  :-[ :'(

Hopefully he will also do some brig time and lose lots of cash prior to being kicked out >:(
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

jong1239

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Re: got caught
« Reply #5 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:48 »
look i know i messed up. i just need serious job advice, not judgement.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: got caught
« Reply #6 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:01 »
look i know i messed up. i just need serious job advice, not judgement.

Like I said above...rehab is your quickest route to forgiveness.

Or you can do the ditch digging route that others recommend...and try nuclear power again in 6 or 8 years...
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2009, 08:02 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: got caught
« Reply #7 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:08 »
look i know i messed up. i just need serious job advice, not judgement.

Congratulations on taking the first step needed.  UncaBuffalo has some of the best advice posted.  Head to rehab, learn from your mistake, stay away from it in the future and you'll stand a much better chance of getting into civilian nuke. 
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

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Offline Neutron Whisperer

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Re: got caught
« Reply #8 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:26 »
Why does he need rehab?  Pot is not addictive.
Disclaimer: there is no "tone" to my post.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #9 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:38 »
Why does he need rehab?  Pot is not addictive.

Whether the THC or the joy of the habit is to blame is debatable, but either way he put purchasing,possession and using an illegal controlled substance ahead of local,state and Federal laws, including the UCMJ. Rehab might help the decision-making process... by the way, would you REALLY want him operating YOUR plant?

Offline Preciousblue1965

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Re: got caught
« Reply #10 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:40 »
Look, most people around here don't give pats on the head and we are all out of warm fuzzies to hand out.  

That being said, the first thing you have to figure out is why on earth you decided to light up in the first place, especially considering you know full well what the consequences would be and that you would eventually get tested.  When you figure out the answer to that question, then you can start figuring out what to do afterwards.  I don't know about the requirements at commercial plants as far as security clearances or if a drug discharge affects that or not, but I can guarantee that there are not a lot of nuclear related jobs that are going to look casually upon that sort of thing.  

Bottom line is, you knew the risk and you took it, and broke a major rule of engagement.  You engaged in an activity that is illegal(despite what the current administration thinks of it) and you are going live with that choice.  You came here for advice, you got some advice, and you got a lot of deserved flak for what you did.  Now you can either get over it and move on, get your feelings hurt and leave, or something in between.  
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jong1239

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Re: got caught
« Reply #11 on: Oct 19, 2009, 08:46 »
I'm listening to everyones replys.

Offline NukeLDO

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Re: got caught
« Reply #12 on: Oct 19, 2009, 09:26 »
Last I knew (GMT last year I believe), the Navy was required to offer substance abuse counselling prior to discharge for a related offense.  Take them up on it when offered, pay attention, and put it down...for good.  There's a saying, "The elevator goes all the way to the bottom, but you can get off before then."  One thing leads to another.....Continue to use, and you and those around you will suffer...even though you might think you're not hurting anybody....maybe not today, or tomorrow, but eventually it will catch up with you.  What you are experiencing now is only the tip of the iceberg...there's alot of "yets" to come for you if you continue down this path.  You probably don't have an arrest record for possession....yet.  You probably don't have a DUI...yet.  You probably haven't (fill in the blank)....yet.
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

Fermi2

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Re: got caught
« Reply #13 on: Oct 20, 2009, 01:38 »
It's not our job to make you feel better about your employment opportunities. I'll tell it straight, I doubt you get a job in the commercial nuke world. Why take a chance on you when there's 1000s of guys, equally or better qualified who didn't do pot?
I certainly wouldn't hire you.

Mike

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #14 on: Oct 20, 2009, 01:46 »
I have to agree with Mike on this one. To relate a personal anecdote, an acquaintance of mine was on his way out of the Navy. Had a job lined up at a south western plant and everything. Got a DUI during his last month in and went to mast. When he got to his nice new lucrative job in the nuke world, they told him to pack sand, as there were 100s of other guys who didn't drive while drunk. So, I am guessing that you won't have a chance for a long time.

I do have a question I always wanted to ask someone like you;

Was it worth it? Has to be the most expensive joint ever, I would imagine.

Justin
« Last Edit: Oct 20, 2009, 01:53 by JustinHEMI »

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: got caught
« Reply #15 on: Oct 20, 2009, 06:56 »
Why does he need rehab?  Pot is not addictive.

Here's my understanding of how getting unescorted access works:

If you had a drug problem, but have gotten help and no longer have it, you MAY get UA at a commercial site.  http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/ops-experience/access-authorization/faq.html  HOWEVER, you have to prove you no longer have the issue & are now trustworthy.  Completing rehab is the quickest route.  You can also just stay clean for a sufficient period of time on your own, but...

As far as whether pot is addictive, I think that goes into a whole psychological addiction vs. physiological addiction argument that is beyond the scope of this thread...
We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.      - B. Baggins

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: got caught
« Reply #16 on: Oct 20, 2009, 09:47 »
There are two parts to whether he can get a commercial job:

1.  Can he get unescorted access.
2.  Will anyone hire him.

I guess I was strictly focusing on the UA part... 

To address whether anyone will hire him...since Mike, Justin, & Marssim all agree that he's out-of-luck, it's going to be hard to feel good about his chances...maybe if he has a ton of experience in a high-demand specialization (RP during outage season?), he would be able to get on as a contractor, but...
We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.      - B. Baggins

Offline Mike_Koehler

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Re: got caught
« Reply #17 on: Oct 20, 2009, 10:07 »
He never did say what his NEC used to be........ DOE land is hurting for warm breathing bodies to spend all the stimulus $$$$. If he is honest with the hiring people and completes Rehab he mighthave a chance to get hired as a D&D worker or RCT.
That is the only place I know of where forgiveness is to be found .

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Offline DLGN25

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Re: got caught
« Reply #18 on: Oct 20, 2009, 11:08 »
jong, do what ever you have to do to stay in and finish your commitment.  While this may not be in the nuke program, you want that honorable.  If they kick you out, tough it up and get on with your life.  Hell, you can come here to Santa Cruz CA and a significant portion of the population will treat you as a hero, but a nuke you will not be. We all make mistakes, just be glad you don't have to wear a scarlet letter, that is unless your job requires a security clearance.

And yes, I smoked a bit of pot while in the service, but then they were not testing for drugs at the time, but if caught, it was big trouble even then.
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Content1

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Re: got caught
« Reply #19 on: Oct 20, 2009, 12:23 »
Your life is not over, just harder.   If you like pot and feel it restricts your life to not have it, move to San Francisco and get a job where they do not care, like in the art world.   If you truly wish to give it up, like giving up the other woman in an affair, you must give it up.  Once you have made that decision, go to school, have a clean record.   Many people like redemption, as in religion.  All make mistakes of some sort in life.   It could have been worse, say had an accident and found you under the influence and hurt somebody.   I don't see why a nuke is the only thing you could wish to do.   Yes, it would be tough getting a "Q" clearance for awhile, but plenty of jobs out there.   Get some college and if you truly wish to come into the field, come back as an engineer or something.   You have a chance to make your life better if this forces you into a direction you may have never considered.   Try to turn your lemons into lemonaid.

Samabby

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Re: got caught
« Reply #20 on: Oct 20, 2009, 04:02 »
You were smart enough to get into the Nuke program, so you have THAT going for yourself. Get back to a civilian school, study something else that you think that you might enjoy.

In addition, attend 100 AA or NA meetings for the next 100 days.

Good luck, son. ;)

Offline Neutron_Herder

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Re: got caught
« Reply #21 on: Oct 20, 2009, 04:46 »
There's a lot of good stuff written here...  Listen to it.

I honestly have my doubts about whether you will or not though.  You seem to be more upset about the fact that you "got caught" than anything else.  A little bit more remorse for the poor soul who has to cover your butt on the watchbill would probably help.  Hopefully your ship wasn't deploying soon!

Having had my guys do this in the past, I can tell you it's not the end.  You're probably not going to walk out of the Navy and into a nuke plant though.  Go back to school and get good grades.  You've already proven you can pass a relatively tough academic program, apply those study habits to college and you'll be fine. 

Get as far away from that crap as you can for a while, and prove you're worthwhile and people will be a little more forgiving.  Get "caught" again, and you're never going to get back into anything to do with nuclear power.

Good luck, and don't do anything else stupid!
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Offline thenukeman

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Re: got caught
« Reply #22 on: Oct 20, 2009, 06:00 »
What is the Navys deal on this?  Army was 45 days restriction 45 days  extra duty, 2/3 pay for 2 months and reduction in rank for E5 and below.  Above was automatic discharge. If they let you stay in shape up and do your time and do not be ignorant anymore.  Go to the rehab.  You can still get a honorable discharge if this is the case.  If you own up to it for DOE jobs and Nuke Plant you MAY get a pass if you show your rehab and admit your stupidity.  Both will ask if you have been punished by Captains Mast or Article 15,  You will have to own up to it.

Offline sovbob

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Re: got caught
« Reply #23 on: Oct 20, 2009, 06:46 »
What is the Navys deal on this?  Army was 45 days restriction 45 days  extra duty, 2/3 pay for 2 months and reduction in rank for E5 and below.  Above was automatic discharge.

The navy's "deal" for unauthorized use of a controlled substance is...automatic separation with an Other-Than-Honorable discharge.  It's not dishonorable (those are reserved for felony convictions etc), but it's definitely a Bad Thing(tm).  I've heard of people being able to upgrade their discharge status after the fact, but I'm not very familiar with that.

From day one, when Joe Kid walks through the door and talks to the recruiter, they are told about the Navy's "Zero Tolerance" policy on drugs.  They are required to watch a video on it.  They are tested at the recruiter's office before going to MEPS. They are tested at MEPS before shipping out to boot camp.  They are tested at boot camp.  They are tested at nuke school.  They are tested when they first report to a new command.  They are tested randomly and at least once a year there is a command sweep where everybody gets tested.

Every single test is handled carefully to prevent any possibility of tampering or compromised results.  At the lab, when a sample does come back positive, it is sent to ANOTHER laboratory for an independent check.

The reason for such rigorous methodology is that the consequences for failing a drug test are severe.  Before the navy accuses a person of using drugs, they want to make absolutely certain of that fact.  There are no second chances.  There is no forgiveness.  There is no We're-Going-To-Look-The-Other-Way-This-Time.  It's game over.

The commercial nuclear industry is not some garbage bin that accepts people who "weren't quite good enough for the navy".  It has the same high standards for its operators.  If jong1239 chose to smoke pot in the navy AFTER BEING TOLD AGAIN AND AGAIN THE CONSEQUENCES then I have little sympathy for him.

There's a lot of competition for jobs out there right now.  Getting kicked out for drug use doesn't make you very competitive.  I highly doubt that somebody could slide into an ops job at a commercial nuke plant immediately after something like this.  Maybe after 5 years and successful completion of rehab.
« Last Edit: Oct 20, 2009, 07:11 by sovbob »
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co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #24 on: Oct 20, 2009, 09:06 »
The commercial nuclear industry is not some garbage bin that accepts people who "weren't quite good enough for the navy".  It has the same high standards for its operators.  If jong1239 chose to smoke pot in the navy AFTER BEING TOLD AGAIN AND AGAIN THE CONSEQUENCES then I have little sympathy for him.

There's no "flying under the radar" on this one...and no sympathy from the Nuclear Community.  He'd do well to simply delete his Nukeworker profile, in my opinion.  We all know the consequences faced with our technology when we sign on.   

Proof again:  the system works.

Unfortunate that this likens to a horrible accident on the interstate that backs up traffic for miles.   Move along people....nothing to see here.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #25 on: Oct 20, 2009, 09:11 »
Very well said Sovbob.

Justin

Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #26 on: Oct 20, 2009, 09:16 »
What is the Navys deal on this?  Army was 45 days restriction 45 days  extra duty, 2/3 pay for 2 months and reduction in rank for E5 and below.  Above was automatic discharge. If they let you stay in shape up and do your time and do not be ignorant anymore.  Go to the rehab.  You can still get a honorable discharge if this is the case.  If you own up to it for DOE jobs and Nuke Plant you MAY get a pass if you show your rehab and admit your stupidity.  Both will ask if you have been punished by Captains Mast or Article 15,  You will have to own up to it.

Navy policy is ZERO TOLERANCE.  It is preached from day one of boot camp.  If you do the crime, you are looking at the Big Chicken Dinner.....Bad Conduct Discharge.

“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline desertdog

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Re: got caught
« Reply #27 on: Oct 21, 2009, 01:40 »
As for the OTH being changed to an Honorable, I have always heard that it will take a few attempts before they rule in favor. I guess they want to see if you are off the weed and are motivated enough to keep trying.

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Re: got caught
« Reply #28 on: Oct 21, 2009, 10:53 »
As for the OTH being changed to an Honorable, I have always heard that it will take a few attempts before they rule in favor. I guess they want to see if you are off the weed and are motivated enough to keep trying.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong but an OTH can only be upgraded to a General and not an Honorable discharge.  There is also the fact that if you do show your discharge, upgraded or not, to someone who knows what they are looking at the re-enlistment code will twig them to the fact that you didn't willingly walk out, you were shown to the door and asked not to come back.
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IPREGEN

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Re: got caught
« Reply #29 on: Oct 26, 2009, 12:21 »
You knew that pot was a no-no,
 You knew they did randoms,
 You smoked pot anyway.

 I would not hire you, your decision making skills are weak.

Offline Creeker

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Re: got caught
« Reply #30 on: Oct 27, 2009, 08:43 »
Quote
look i know i messed up. i just need serious job advice, not judgement.

Hey Jong...  Best case, you're still young, have all your limbs, and maybe got out with an OTH.  Life isn't over, just a major change in direction.  Lots of responsible living will eventually bury your mistake, but it's going to take some time.  IF you have a BCD, then it looks like you're going to have a very hard time getting back into the commercial industry.  IF you have a OTH, you can probably, over time, overcome it.

Soooo, you're out, probably intelligent, and you know you can get through NPS and NPTU, which are tough schools.  Pick yourself up and go to college.  My prototype roommate got out after 6, and put himself through 5 years at Mizzou while working nights at UPS.  He has a EE.  Go to college, and make yourself valuable!  You might be on the periphery of nuclear power when you try to get back in, and have to take jobs that are less than your qualified for.. But look at the long term.  My nephew picked up an underage DUI earlier this year.  He satisfied all the court requirements, and is working our outage here.  You might have to ease in, work outages as labor, then possibly work into something else, build a dependable reputation!!

People make mistakes... If you pick yourself up, work your ass off, get your degree, and what experience you can, I'd think that down the road you can work back into it. 

All of us on these boards have made mistakes, and your's will have sharper consequences.  OK, deal, and go on!

Best of luck,

Bill

McBride

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Re: Upgrading discharge
« Reply #31 on: Nov 02, 2009, 07:40 »
... but the head officer over the program overruled them...

~~SNICKER!~~

Hey, where were you applying, I know some folks looking.  HONEYCOMB!  Find out where this guy was going!

LaviniaSkies

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Re: got caught
« Reply #32 on: Nov 29, 2009, 09:48 »
You did drugs while serving in the military and you actually (I mean, actually...) thought you wouldn't get caught...?

Wow.
I must say...I'm a wee bit proud of the Navy for kicking your butt out because I definitely would not someone who thinks it's okay to get stoned while serving their country working with my husband.
It might just be a "wife thing", but I'd rather him not have to worry about whether or not the idiot in the next bunk is too wasted to do his job...
Ya know...
silly things like that...
« Last Edit: Nov 29, 2009, 09:57 by LaviniaSkies »

Offline Jechtm

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Re: got caught
« Reply #33 on: Nov 29, 2009, 10:03 »
*Speechless*

Really, I can't believe you'd give up everything you worked for to go get high.
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B.PRESGROVE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #34 on: Dec 02, 2009, 02:18 »
Im not justifiying what he did here, but Ive know alot of folks that have done drugs in the past, cleaned up and were hired.  If you clean up and are honest about the whole thing you shouldnt have to many problems.  It may take longer to get a security clearance, but honesty is always the way to go.  I truely hope you cleanup and fly straight if not for yourself but for those around you.

Offline Jechtm

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Re: got caught
« Reply #35 on: Dec 02, 2009, 02:34 »
I'm just glad I never got caught up in all that crap when I was younger. I just don't see the big deal of getting high. And if you can tell me why its so great, then we all know whose tried it. =/
"Truth is the Daughter of Inspiration;... It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

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Offline Jechtm

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Re: got caught
« Reply #36 on: Dec 02, 2009, 11:32 »
Human curiosity is within us all. Smoking may be something people would do, just not for me. Sorry if my thoughts bother anyone.

My stepfather had alcohol and smoking problems and died when I was 12, my mom wasn't an outstanding character either... She almost died in a car accident because of her drug abuse when I was 14... those things in my life changed my point of view on drugs and alcohol. So don't mind me if I seem so judgmental when I didn't mean to be.
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JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #37 on: Dec 03, 2009, 12:05 »
I am with you.

We all have our opinions. My father has a new liver that yet again, has stage 3 scarring due to his youthful indiscretions. That caused me never to be like that. My brother on the other hand, can't put down the bottle or the joint and wonders why he was laid off from a well paying, high power lineman job. Smoking a joint is dumb, IMO, because there is too much to risk because of it. However, getting into a philosophical debate about the merits/evils of weed are beyond this topic and this section of the forum, so I recommend we don't get into it.

Back on topic, the joint the OP smoked has to be the most expensive one ever. :P
« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2009, 12:06 by JustinHEMI »

JsonD13

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Re: got caught
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2010, 12:47 »
You guys have it all wrong looking at the type of discharge.  A BCD requires a court martial.  The MILPERSMAN 1910-146 (I think) characterizes the OTH as the least favorable discharge, of which the choices for a CO are honorable, general, and OTH (CO's cant mete out any other type without a court martial).

Of course, the type of discharge handed out depends on the CO, but I would venture to bet that a general would be the norm for this type of discharge.

Jason

Offline walstib

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Re: got caught
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2010, 01:24 »
I see a whole lot of people ready to throw stones.  I don't believe all of y'all were goddy two shoes when younger.  It was stupid but he'll have to pay for his mistake and go on.  Quite a few utilities will let you back into the nuke's after a period (usually 3 or 5 years) after the first offence.  after a second one it's final, you're out.  That being said, use the time as others have mentioned and get a degree.  I've met a whole lot of people with degree's that could never pass the navy nukes, but a navy nuke can pass a 4 year college course if he applies himself.

 Look down the road and plan for it.  With the 8 billion Obama has pledged to get nuclear back on line, and the backlash against oil from what is happening out in the gulf, I'd be surprised if after college (and keeping a clean record) you would have any trouble finding some utility that would hire you.  Don't remember the exact number but the average age of the nuke worker is around 53.  This industry is going to grow and it is going to be hurting for qualified people to run the plants in the very near future.
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Offline spekkio

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Re: got caught
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2010, 05:48 »
This thread is old, but it bears repeating for anyone interested in the program:

When you join the Navy, you take an oath not to use drugs. You sign paperwork to that effect. It doesn't matter if you were the world's biggest pothead beforehand; joining the Navy includes the commitment not to use drugs. If you violate this oath, no one is going to have mercy on you. You are XXXXXX. Proper XXXXXX. You want career advice? You likely have a bright future ahead of you working at a fast food restaurant or public groundskeeping.

It's not about demonizing people who use a relatively harmless substance, but rather laying the hammer down on people who violate a sworn statement.


Edited to remove profanity
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 07:52 by Gamecock »

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2010, 10:14 »
  This industry is going to grow and it is going to be hurting for qualified people to run the plants in the very near future.

And hopefully free of druggies and 420-symp enablers.

Offline AaronBuchanan

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Re: got caught
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 07:32 »
Would I encourage this guy to get cleaned up, get a Bachelor's and come back in about 5 years and try to get in, no. Sorry bro, but even my Dean said on the way to the classroom for civilian nuke, "If you fail a drug test, your career is over." I'm not gonna name names, but there were people in my class, and the one ahead of me, that had not so clean pasts. Everyone had already been cleaned up and were moving on when it came to nuke. I'm sorry man, but I would advise you going into Chemical engineering, something like that. Try to keep from getting a discharge, good luck.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: got caught
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 07:37 »
Would I encourage this guy to get cleaned up, get a Bachelor's and come back in about 5 years and try to get in, no. Sorry bro, but even my Dean said on the way to the classroom for civilian nuke, "If you fail a drug test, your career is over." I'm not gonna name names, but there were people in my class, and the one ahead of me, that had not so clean pasts. Everyone had already been cleaned up and were moving on when it came to nuke. I'm sorry man, but I would advise you going into Chemical engineering, something like that. Try to keep from getting a discharge, good luck.

Sounds like he has already tried a little personal Chemical Engineering and it didn't work out for him.  :D

In my personal opinion, smoking pot should not be a crime. That being said, one of the inviolable Rules of Nuclear (Naval or Commercial) is "Thou shalt not partake." The OP chose to play outside the rules and lost. End of game. Reminds me of one of life's basic tenets:

"If you're going to be dumb, you gotta be tough."
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:42 by RDTroja »
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Re: got caught
« Reply #44 on: Jun 29, 2010, 03:59 »
Look, most people around here don't give pats on the head and we are all out of warm fuzzies to hand out.  

That being said, the first thing you have to figure out is why on earth you decided to light up in the first place, especially considering you know full well what the consequences would be and that you would eventually get tested.  When you figure out the answer to that question, then you can start figuring out what to do afterwards.  I don't know about the requirements at commercial plants as far as security clearances or if a drug discharge affects that or not, but I can guarantee that there are not a lot of nuclear related jobs that are going to look casually upon that sort of thing.  

Bottom line is, you knew the risk and you took it, and broke a major rule of engagement.  You engaged in an activity that is illegal(despite what the current administration thinks of it) and you are going live with that choice.  You came here for advice, you got some advice, and you got a lot of deserved flak for what you did.  Now you can either get over it and move on, get your feelings hurt and leave, or something in between.  


First off, using marijuana is not illegal. Only the possession of marijuana is illegal. This does not mean there are not consequences for using marijuana, just no legal ones. But anyways as everyone has said you knew the consequences and still decided to use. While marijuana is not addictive itself, rehab might still be a good idea to show any future employers that you have at least taken the steps to quit. Whether you actually do or not they won't know unless they can randomly drug test you as well.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #45 on: Jun 29, 2010, 04:27 »

First off, using marijuana is not illegal. Only the possession of marijuana is illegal. This does not mean there are not consequences for using marijuana, just no legal ones. But anyways as everyone has said you knew the consequences and still decided to use. While marijuana is not addictive itself, rehab might still be a good idea to show any future employers that you have at least taken the steps to quit. Whether you actually do or not they won't know unless they can randomly drug test you as well.

And you finished your Juris Doctor where??

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #46 on: Jun 29, 2010, 06:02 »
How is having a J.D. necessary for this comment?  

Free bad legal advice about civilian nuclear employees using marijuana (since that was the origin of the thread), and poster's lack of knowledge of FFD.
« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2010, 06:07 by HydroDave63 »

Offline bradley535

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Re: got caught
« Reply #47 on: Jun 29, 2010, 01:01 »
Use of marijuana is a Federal crime. Though drug crimes are most often prosecuted at the state level the use of illegal drugs is still a Federal offense (even if it's legal in the state). That means that if you are Federally prosecuted in California, where is is no longer a state mandated criminal offense, it still sticks to you when looking to get something like, say, a security clearance.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/drug-crimes.html

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #48 on: Jun 29, 2010, 02:34 »
While marijuana is not addictive itself, rehab might still be a good idea to show any future employers that you have at least taken the steps to quit. Whether you actually do or not they won't know unless they can randomly drug test you as well.
Is this the reward we get for trying to help you into Nuclear Power?   You're going to give advice to your "peers" on how to circumvent the system and get into Nuclear as a drug user?

Given the number of managers, security officials, NRC reps, and other "lurkers" that read these threads, combined with the fact that your home IP address is attached to your thread (and anything you post on the Internet for that matter), I'll leave you with this and your "drug debate":  Darwin always wins.  (In 2008 I had to submit to 15 random drug tests.  Just another day in Nuclear Power).  Choose your path in life carefully...if you are able.


MacGyver

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Re: got caught
« Reply #49 on: Jun 29, 2010, 07:40 »

First off, using marijuana is not illegal. Only the possession of marijuana is illegal. This does not mean there are not consequences for using marijuana, just no legal ones. But anyways as everyone has said you knew the consequences and still decided to use. While marijuana is not addictive itself, rehab might still be a good idea to show any future employers that you have at least taken the steps to quit. Whether you actually do or not they won't know unless they can randomly drug test you as well.

Hmmmmmmmm, are you sure you RTFQ and ATFQ?

You see, the OP asked the following question (below).

ok so i got caught with pot on a piss test.... now what do i do? do i still have potential in the civilian nuke field? thanks guys.

First observation, he didn't care about the rules.  He was just "Piss"ed off that he got caught.  Second he thought that we had some magic potion.

We FFD at my Commercial Nuclear Plant.  And, We fire the "piss" out of failures that get caught before they get help.

Got Duck Tape?  This thread is in need of locking before this fool (aka jabONE) reply's again.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #50 on: Jun 29, 2010, 08:23 »
I was actually responding to someone else who implied that using marijuana is illegal which it is not. I personally do not care if someone uses pot, me myself I do not use it but who am I to say that someone else can't. All I'm saying is if you at least go to rehab you are showing potential employers that you are trying to quit something even if it's not addictive in nature and may help you more than if you didn't go to rehab. Whether someone actually quits is up to him and what he does in his own time but one should know that if you do not quit and you do get hired that you can always be tested again by some other employer. I was not trying to imply that yeah go to rehab so you can get hired and then not quit using. So if ya'll misunderstood me then I'm sorry.

MacGyver

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Re: got caught
« Reply #51 on: Jun 29, 2010, 08:29 »
I was actually responding to someone else who implied that using marijuana is illegal which it is not. I personally do not care if someone uses pot, me myself I do not use it but who am I to say that someone else can't. All I'm saying is if you at least go to rehab you are showing potential employers that you are trying to quit something even if it's not addictive in nature and may help you more than if you didn't go to rehab. Whether someone actually quits is up to him and what he does in his own time but one should know that if you do not quit and you do get hired that you can always be tested again by some other employer. I was not trying to imply that yeah go to rehab so you can get hired and then not quit using. So if ya'll misunderstood me then I'm sorry.

Riiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggghh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht.

You know if it makes you feel better I am in the Number 1 and Number 2 business daily.  And, though this started off as a Number 1 it has now ended with a distinct Number 2.

OBTW, You don't have to be sorry for MY mis-understandings.  They are mine and mine alone.  Ahhhhhhhh, memories of my own youth and ignorance (i.e. inexperience).

Peace.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #52 on: Jun 29, 2010, 09:10 »
I was actually responding to someone else who implied that using marijuana is illegal which it is not.

jabRONE , did you actually read bradley535's link, or just digging the hole deeper?

Offline DDMurray

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Re: got caught
« Reply #53 on: Jun 29, 2010, 09:23 »
Interesting that the OP is no longer on NW.
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jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #54 on: Jun 29, 2010, 09:56 »
I never said I was a NUKE. Just someone interested in going into the nuclear field.

MacGyver

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Re: got caught
« Reply #55 on: Jun 30, 2010, 06:38 »

I never said I was a NUKE. Just someone interested in going into the nuclear field.

Well get a DOSE of reality now before you speak again on this subject.  You don't have to be a NUKE (commercial or navy) to get a BCD.

EVEN legal (state sponsored medical pot) is ILLEGAL Federally.  Read this story:  Employee Fired for Medical Marijuana

Offline KUrunner

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Re: got caught
« Reply #56 on: Jun 30, 2010, 08:27 »
Even Wal-Mart drug tests.  Just saying...
The first rule of thermodynamics is you don't talk about thermodynamics.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #57 on: Jun 30, 2010, 09:14 »
Nobody owes anybody a fair warning in this economy.

You guys are too kind to the stupid.

Hey now! You were way too kind to the nubs first!  :P


Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: got caught
« Reply #58 on: Jun 30, 2010, 09:24 »
Where were you when my buddy got a DUI (or something similar) for merely having pot in his system?  Where were you for another friend whose license remains revoked after 5 years, his lawyer telling him that maybe going to rehab didn't look so good for his case?  You see, here in the real (nuclear) world, we don't speak on things we think we know about.  Ask a real nuke a question and he'll answer it directly and provide reference.  You just spew philosophical crap without basis.  

Interesting.

I had never heard of rehab counting against anyone...

I'll include that info in my answer if anyone ever asks me again.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2010, 09:27 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline spekkio

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Re: got caught
« Reply #59 on: Jun 30, 2010, 08:51 »
Quote
You guys are too kind to the stupid.
There are people that can make strong arguments that it is stupid to abstain from certain drugs, and it doesn't preclude people from employment everywhere. Philosophical discussion for another time, but just throwing that out there.

However, there are certain professions that will not tolerate drug use. Military is one of those professions.


co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #60 on: Jun 30, 2010, 09:40 »
There are people that can make strong arguments that it is stupid to abstain from certain drugs, and it doesn't preclude people from employment everywhere. Philosophical discussion for another time, but just throwing that out there.

However, there are certain professions that will not tolerate drug use. Military is one of those professions.
No one tolerates it....when they find them.  That seems to be the tricky part sometimes...for everyone.
« Last Edit: Jun 30, 2010, 09:50 by Co60Slr »

Offline spekkio

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Re: got caught
« Reply #61 on: Jul 01, 2010, 05:42 »
That's simply not true.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #62 on: Jul 01, 2010, 07:25 »
That's simply not true.
Which part?   The point of this thread has illustrated that when flushed out of the NNPP, Commercial Nuclear is not a consolation prize.  They can go research the "letter of the law" all they want, but the bottom line is that no one HAS to hire a drug user that was terminated for cause.




IPREGEN

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Re: got caught
« Reply #63 on: Jul 01, 2010, 09:12 »
Some places require successful documented completion of a rehab treatment program and then a time period after that, 6 months to a year is the normal range. But they are never obligated to hire anyone. This goes for alcohol and drug issues.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #64 on: Jul 01, 2010, 01:21 »
The policies are varied, but illicit drug dependent employees can save their jobs by use of such programs.
This is in the vast unknown category of case-by-case "maybes".   As a nuke, self-confession is always the right answer for a variety of scenarios.  However, I think the fundamental message for nukeworkers and all lurkers is that if you do drugs in the nuclear industry (military or commercial) then: 1) you're going to get caught, and 2) your nuclear career is done.  Hence, these threads are useless for the OP since we don't know the whole story and we're not in the review chain for his/her substance abuse issue.

Why is this a debate here today?  If you want a ex-Navy drug user in your facility then help him out.  Otherwise, I think it's overly easy to post the "feel sorry for the poor guy" opinion when you know he won't be hired at your plant.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #65 on: Jul 01, 2010, 02:53 »
Even Wal-Mart drug tests.  Just saying...


LOL I know cause I work there, FOR NOW. You get drug tested when you get hired on and if you fail you don't get hired. They also drug test you anytime there is an incident report filed and you actually go to a doctor. So for drug users at Wal-Mart you better hope you never get injured on the job. Other than that they don't drug test you, I mean they retain the right to randomly drug test but they never do. I've known people to come into the store that I work at completely high and no one ever knew it. As for drug testing, there are always ways around drug tests so you may not necessarily get caught as long as you know what you are doing. But still isn't worth the risk to me. All I was saying earlier was that rehab would look better to a potential employer than someone who got fired for a drug related problem and didn't go to rehab.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #66 on: Jul 01, 2010, 04:15 »
I'm illustrating there is not an absolute on this drug use by a nuclear employee debate.
I try to avoid the drug and security clearance related threads altogether.   There's no point in anyone posting/responding really since it's all case-by-case.   I've coached myself for violating my own rule this time...

 :-X


Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #67 on: Jul 01, 2010, 08:48 »
As for drug testing, there are always ways around drug tests so you may not necessarily get caught as long as you know what you are doing.

The 35 dollar field test kit, maybe. The gas chromatigraph tells no lies.

Instead of dwelling on how-to-maybe-beat-a-piss test , howzabout focusing on planning a future success in Nuclear? ;)

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #68 on: Jul 02, 2010, 12:21 »
The 35 dollar field test kit, maybe. The gas chromatigraph tells no lies.

Instead of dwelling on how-to-maybe-beat-a-piss test , howzabout focusing on planning a future success in Nuclear? ;)


I have no need to beat a test as I personally do not use any drugs as I have stated. But that doesn't mean that I don't have alot of friends who do use marijuana. I am trying to focus on a career in the Nuclear Field and hopefully I'll make it. I mean I know it's gonna be alot of hard work but I can do and I'm prepared to. It's taken 4 years of being out of school and working at a job I hate and won't get anywhere with to realise what I want to do and I'm not about to screw that up.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #69 on: Jul 02, 2010, 12:42 »

I have no need to beat a test as I personally do not use any drugs as I have stated. But that doesn't mean that I don't have alot of friends who do use marijuana.

Just as another heads-up.....the Navy does a background check for security clearance...having a bunch of '420 homies' may not have the happiest result. YMMV

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #70 on: Jul 02, 2010, 12:47 »
LOL Eh well if the Navy is gonna disqualify me because I have friends who smoke pot then so be it. It's kind of unfair and utterly ridiculous in my opinion but oh well. I've never had any trouble with the law other than traffic tickets like anyone else. Oh and I got a suspended license because I missed my court date by one day once but I paid the ticket as soon as I realised I had missed my court date and then got my license straightened out so I'm no longer on a suspended license. Will that possibly disqualify me?

Offline deltarho

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Re: got caught
« Reply #71 on: Jul 02, 2010, 02:21 »
LOL Eh well if the Navy is gonna disqualify me because I have friends who smoke pot then so be it. It's kind of unfair and utterly ridiculous in my opinion but oh well. I've never had any trouble with the law other than traffic tickets like anyone else. Oh and I got a suspended license because I missed my court date by one day once but I paid the ticket as soon as I realised I had missed my court date and then got my license straightened out so I'm no longer on a suspended license. Will that possibly disqualify me?

You may not be worrying about the drugs, but you will be disqualified for using alternate British spellings, such as for "realize," because it shows that you do not pay attention to detail.



































Just kidding!
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2010, 02:22 by deltarho »
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #72 on: Jul 02, 2010, 02:49 »
LOL Eh well if the Navy is gonna disqualify me because I have friends who smoke pot then so be it. It's kind of unfair and utterly ridiculous in my opinion but oh well. I've never had any trouble with the law other than traffic tickets like anyone else. Oh and I got a suspended license because I missed my court date by one day once but I paid the ticket as soon as I realised I had missed my court date and then got my license straightened out so I'm no longer on a suspended license. Will that possibly disqualify me?

My man jabRONE...just as I think you have your sights set on this Nuclear thing you go and disappoint me. Imagine yourself suddenly in the shoes of the bespectacled 52 year old bitter ex-Halliburton guy doing your DoD clearance review there at  Defense Investigative Service... "Applicant.....knowingly associates with drug users with prior convictions... DMV reports "failure to appear" and a license suspend..." sets your file down, reaches over to his shirt pocket for his crushproof Marlboro box, muttering to himself "my first denial of the week" as he wanders out of his cube towards the designated Smoking Area on the building porch.

you see, jabRONE, it's not just us nitwits here on nubworker.com that you have to impress, it's the people with decision-making authority over your career and life. Sometimes that person might be one and the same, especially if you apply for an officer program later on in your career. Instead of looking for exceptions, shortcuts and excuses, focus on meeting the challenge!

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #73 on: Jul 02, 2010, 04:38 »
I know what happened with the whole failure to appear thing is they changed my court date on me by a couple days without letting me know. I called a few days before my scheduled court date to make sure I had the time right and they were like your court date was yesterday. So I asked them what I needed to do and they said that I just needed to pay the fine and everything would be fine. So I went and paid the fine and then received a letter saying my license was going to get suspended and so it got suspended for a short period till I could straighten everything out. But I got it all straightened out and everything is fine now, all traffic  violations have been paid for and I got a valid license now. I haven't gotten a ticket in over a year so I'm hoping I don't get disqualified based on all that. Anyways yes I have friends who smoke pot, doesn't make mean I smoke pot or anything.  Doesn't make me or even them for that matter bad people. Who I hang out with outside of work should be no one's concern but mine and certainly should not disqualify me from a job if I had the credentials.

Offline deltarho

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Re: got caught
« Reply #74 on: Jul 02, 2010, 05:14 »
Who I hang out with outside of work should be no one's concern but mine and certainly should not disqualify me from a job if I had the credentials.

I'm afraid you may be right in the future, given the current president.  But you are not correct at the moment.  Why do you think there is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy?  This was the liberal's way of keeping in service of their country those 10% or so of society's square pegs that do not fit into round holes. (I came up with that germane pun all by my lonesome) If it didn't matter what they did behind closed doors, on their "own" time, there wouldn't be such a policy.

And while we are on the subject of "own time"... Once you sign a contract, you are government property, which means you are effectively owned by the government.  Any liberties that you enjoy while thusly owned or employed is purely at the pleasure of said owner--NOT YOU!

I realize the Pepsi commercials probably gave you the impression that your moral relativism is in alignment with society; but here lately, tea sales are going through the roof.

deltarho
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2010, 05:17 by deltarho »
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline KUrunner

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Re: got caught
« Reply #75 on: Jul 02, 2010, 07:10 »
Nuke officer spots are few and far in between.  If two people are up for the same job, both equally qualified, who are they going to pick?  The guy on the straight and narrow or the one with less than reputable friends and court fines?  Your philosophy on whether or not pot is okay doesnt' really pertain to the Navy.

As far as who you hang out with goes... it matters.  If you go nuke, you'll be learning classified material.  If the government thinks that you or any of your friends aren't exactly trustworthy, you're not going to get the clearance.  It's a long shot, but theoretically, you're "druggie" friends could try to get you to spill the beans and sell our secrets to the Russians, you know?

And they do check out your friends and your family.  My ex-husband went to hell and back to get his clearance because one of his former roommates had a drug paraphernalia charge on his record. 
The first rule of thermodynamics is you don't talk about thermodynamics.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #76 on: Jul 02, 2010, 08:16 »
And they do check out your friends and your family.  My ex-husband went to hell and back to get his clearance because one of his former roommates had a drug paraphernalia charge on his record. 
They weren't investigating his friends, they were investigating your ex-husband's assertion that he had nothing to do with drugs, yet had friends that did.   

So, the fun part about this thread is that it doesn't matter what we tell these young kids while we hear their ill-fated philosophies (e.g., drug use) on how we should run a nuclear industry.   The investigators are going to interview friends and family looking for "dirt" against his self-proclaimed clean record (e.g., "Although my close friends use drugs, I don't").   All they need is one friend to "sing".  All they need is one "friend" with a cell phone camera...as Michael Phelps found out:


Darwin always wins.   Just sit back and watch.

Oh, and they think that once they're in the Navy they've beaten the system.  (Laughing).  These are the best stories!  That "ghost in your closet" could come out 5-10 years later to haunt you.  There was a cocky, young MM3 in my NPS class that thought he had beaten the system.  They took him out of our NPS class...1 hour after he took the Final Comprehensive Exam.   That person got to go home and tell his proud Navy parents how he finished NPS...right up to the point of never learning his final exam score.  He too had "friends that did drugs", he too had lied on his security application, he too learned he's not smarter than the military security community.  Yes, the security community is overworked, but they don't give up.

So, our young philosopher may be telling the truth on his drug use...maybe not.  It's not my job nor desire to intervene.  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".

These drug use threads are like an episode of the "Biggest Loser".  "Ok, Contestant, this next challenge is for you to present your own sea-lawyered case defending your drug charge for continued service in the nuclear community".   We can just sit back and watch to see who gets sent home this time.  Do not pass go, do not collect a nuclear bonus, back to WalMart.





   

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #77 on: Jul 02, 2010, 10:44 »
  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".

Frickin'-A dittybag !!!

+K to ya for a week!  ;)

Offline thenukeman

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Re: got caught
« Reply #78 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:20 »
Co60Slr, I like Darwin ALWAYS WINS, so smoke your dope, get drunk while driving, hang out with losers, smoke the crack and say I will never be addicted, Say I can stop before I take my Whiz Quiz and pass all the time!!

 I am saying this for the NUBS not the stupid that have already proven DARWIN right. 

Just dont do it and give Darwin a chance.

Had E4 I took up for, I was a weak LT, I now see my Colonel was right, Make examples of all the Darwin Mouth breathers. Others may not tempted to try and acheive their Darwin faith.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #79 on: Jul 02, 2010, 05:50 »
Had E4 I stook up for....
Here's a story:
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2004/11/23/news/story12.html
This E-6 was (if I recall the unwritten story) the PSD "Sailor of the Year" (i.e., model sailor).   Darwin still wins.

I stuck up for a young E-4 (drinking, UA...no DUI/DWI yet).   I won.  He won.  Navy won.   One of the best, most memorable leadership moments I had as a Chief.

I had another one: young E-4, cocaine.   I never would have guessed.   However, he also thought he was too good to be enlisted and dreamed of commissioning programs all the time.  I'm glad he popped positive before the Navy wasted any college money on him.   Darwin almost failed...he was just teasing me though.

Co60

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #80 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:11 »
When I was an LPO on the boat, I had a young sailor who got through his initial investigation, but on his reinvestigation a few years later, those "things" he thought he got away with came back and escorted him off the boat.

Anyway, jabone may be misguided in thinking people can beat drug tests, or that who he associates with doesn't matter, but honestly, he will get his clearance if what he says about himself is true, I would bet a pay check or two on it. We (you) can pontificate all you want about why he may be a douche bag (I am not saying he is), but it is all a little over dramatic I think. My dad smoked the weed most of his life, as well as my brother and sister and many friends, but I never touched it. I never had an issue. Just sayin.

PS

I also had a license suspension, among other things, due to youthful indiscretions when I was a minor. Still got my clearance.
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2010, 11:18 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: got caught
« Reply #81 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:25 »
How dare you bring reality back into the discussion Justin?   ;)  Excellent post sir!
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #82 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:00 »
When I was an LPO on the boat, I had a young sailor who got through his initial investigation, but on his reinvestigation a few years later, those "things" he thought he got away with came back and escorted him off the boat.

Anyway, jabone may be misguided in thinking people can beat drug tests, or that who he associates with doesn't matter, but honestly, he will get his clearance if what he says about himself is true, I would bet a pay check or two on it. We (you) can pontificate all you want about why he may be a douche bag (I am not saying he is), but it is all a little over dramatic I think. My dad smoked the weed most of his life, as well as my brother and sister and many friends, but I never touched it. I never had an issue. Just sayin.

PS
I also had a license suspension, among other things, due to youthful indiscretions when I was a minor. Still got my clearance.


Ya'll can bet your paychecks all you want about whether I do drugs or not. I have admitted that I have friends who smoke pot but that does not mean that I do however. I really don't care at all whether you believe me, I know what is true and that's all that matters. I don't know what the big deal about marijuana is really is all I'm saying. People act like it is the worse thing someone could be doing when alcohol is 10 times worse. How many people do you hear about smoking weed and then getting in a car and killing someone or a family. You never hear anything like that in the news at least not a regular basis. The same however cannot be said for alcohol. So many people get drunk and then drive and end up killing someone yet we act like smoking pot is much much worse. Give me a break.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #83 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:21 »

Ya'll can bet your paychecks all you want about whether I do drugs or not. I have admitted that I have friends who smoke pot but that does not mean that I do however. I really don't care at all whether you believe me, I know what is true and that's all that matters. I don't know what the big deal about marijuana is really is all I'm saying. People act like it is the worse thing someone could be doing when alcohol is 10 times worse. How many people do you hear about smoking weed and then getting in a car and killing someone or a family. You never hear anything like that in the news at least not a regular basis. The same however cannot be said for alcohol. So many people get drunk and then drive and end up killing someone yet we act like smoking pot is much much worse. Give me a break.

Hey, dumbass, re read my post and you will see that I am, in fact, giving you a break.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #84 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:28 »
While at the same time still calling me a liar by assuming that you'd bet your paycheck on whether I'm telling the truth. I understand you were trying to give me a break, most of that was meant for the other guys who think that pot is such a terrible thing. I only quoted you for the first sentence that I wrote. The rest was meant for everyone else.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #85 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:31 »
While at the same time still calling me a liar by assuming that you'd bet your paycheck on whether I'm telling the truth. I understand you were trying to give me a break, most of that was meant for the other guys who think that pot is such a terrible thing. I only quoted you for the first sentence that I wrote. The rest was meant for everyone else.

No that is not what I was betting my paycheck on. I was betting my paycheck that you WOULD get a clearance, regardless of your friends, as long as what you say about YOURSELF is true. I am in no way inferring or assuming that you are lying. In fact, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, because I don't know you and have no reason to think you are lying.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 01:32 by JustinHEMI »

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #86 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:38 »
Ok well then I apologize my bad dude. Just the way yout put it made it seem like I wasn't telling the truth about myself. It's just a misunderstanding of what you meant on my part so I apologize. I just don't get why people think pot is so bad. As I said I do not smoke pot myself, however I have friends who do and I am all for legalizing it. It never harmed no one as far as I know at least. Not as much as alcohol that is. But that is a different debate.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #87 on: Jul 03, 2010, 02:27 »
No worries. I apologize for calling you a bumbass too.

As far as the effects of pot vs alcohol, I think will find that many of us, including me, actually agree with you. But that isn't the point. It doesn't matter what you and I think, what matters is what is the law. And the Navy has a zero tolerance stance. Even if they legalized the stuff tomorrow, the Navy would still have a zero tolerance stance. Also, so would the NRC. So it is a moot argument to debate the merits of pot vs alcohol here.

For the record, I would rather we made billions off of pot instead of spending billions fighting it.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #88 on: Jul 03, 2010, 02:40 »
Hahaha true that. I guess I just think it should be legal. I mean if I wasn't planning on joining the Navy or any of that and pot was legal, I won't lie. I probably would smoke recreationally. However it is not so no worries, just means I can't get in trouble for something I don't do.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 02:46 by jabONE »

Offline deltarho

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Re: got caught
« Reply #89 on: Jul 03, 2010, 09:52 »
It never harmed no one as far as I know at least. Not as much as alcohol that is. But that is a different debate.

I don't think you would be picked for the debate team--you're not sure what you think.

It never...  because you don't know about it.  Then you acknowledge it may have hurt people, but not as much as alcohol. 

By your logic: Ted Bundy wasn't a bad person; well, not as bad as Adolph Hitler.

What you do admit in your posts is that you have no problem choosing to associate with known law breakers, which speaks volumes about your character.

Before you break out your rationale about the difference in degrees of harm comparing murder to pot, remember that breaking the law, however slight in your mind, is still breaking the law. 

If you cannot have integrity on what some may perceive as little, small, or minor things, how can you be trusted to have integrity on larger, greater, or major issues?  In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #90 on: Jul 03, 2010, 11:00 »
  Yes, the security community is overworked, but they don't give up.

So, our young philosopher may be telling the truth on his drug use...maybe not.  It's not my job nor desire to intervene.  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".   


Amen!!
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #91 on: Jul 03, 2010, 07:25 »
I don't think you would be picked for the debate team--you're not sure what you think.

It never...  because you don't know about it.  Then you acknowledge it may have hurt people, but not as much as alcohol.  

By your logic: Ted Bundy wasn't a bad person; well, not as bad as Adolph Hitler.

What you do admit in your posts is that you have no problem choosing to associate with known law breakers, which speaks volumes about your character.

Before you break out your rationale about the difference in degrees of harm comparing murder to pot, remember that breaking the law, however slight in your mind, is still breaking the law.  

If you cannot have integrity on what some may perceive as little, small, or minor things, how can you be trusted to have integrity on larger, greater, or major issues?  In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.


And everyone breaks the law everyday by speeding but hey no one gives a crap. Yeah sure it's breaking the law but there are worse things to break than others and I think smoking pot isn't that bad even though I personally choose not to do so. Do I think it should be legal, yes I do but it's not so it doesn't matter. That's just my personal belief.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 07:33 by jabONE »

Offline KUrunner

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Re: got caught
« Reply #92 on: Jul 03, 2010, 07:44 »

And everyone breaks the law everyday by speeding but hey no one gives a crap. Yeah sure it's breaking the law but there are worse things to break than others and I think smoking pot isn't that bad even though I personally choose not to do so. Do I think it should be legal, yes I do but it's not so it doesn't matter. That's just my personal belief.

You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 
The first rule of thermodynamics is you don't talk about thermodynamics.

Offline retired nuke

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Re: got caught
« Reply #93 on: Jul 03, 2010, 08:41 »
In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.

Yeah, you pretty much do get to choose. Those which you are willing to pay the price for, you can break. But... if you break it, and get caught, no bitchin.  ;)

I choose to be a pretty much law abiding citizen. Legal guns, I don't drive after drinking, etc. But, as with many on this board, it wasn't always this way.  :o

You know the old adage - judge not, lest ye be judged...

Peace   8)
Remember who you love. Remember what is sacred. Remember what is true.
Remember that you will die, and that this day is a gift. Remember how you wish to live, may the blessing of the Lord be with you

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #94 on: Jul 03, 2010, 08:49 »
You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 

KU, +K to ya for trying. If the opinions of several chiefs and officers (including those involved in the nuclear pipeline) and you ex-husband's experience regarding clearances are unable to sway the attitude, then we've reached the asymptote here. That's why I stopped replying (except for this one ;)

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #95 on: Jul 03, 2010, 11:54 »
You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 


How many people honestly care about speeding when driving? And honestly you could not name me one person who has never sped in their life or broken some kind of law in their life. EVERYONE has broken at least one law at some point in their lives whether intentional or unintentional.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #96 on: Jul 04, 2010, 08:09 »
How many people honestly care about speeding when driving? And honestly you could not name me one person who has never sped in their life or broken some kind of law in their life. EVERYONE has broken at least one law at some point in their lives whether intentional or unintentional.
State Troopers, Sheriffs, Highway Patrols, etc.  They all care.   In fact, they're employed because of our faulty human condition you describe.  Have you ever been going down the highway at 5+ MPH over the limit and pass a trooper, who then pulls out behind you?  That sinking feeling you get as you know for sure he's after you?  (Yep, raising my hand too).   Well, as a Nuclear Professional, if you get that feeling at work than you have crossed the line and your job is in jeopardy.   And since the supervisor:worker ratio is not 1:1, the nuclear industry expects a tremendous amount of professional maturity, self-control, and self-discipline. If you make a mistake (e.g., bump a circuit breaker open) you are expected to immediately "confess".  Given that tidbit of information, can you understand why people here get excited when you get on your soap box and talk about "breaking rules in society?"   We're not in the mainstream society in this business, we're operating a very unforgiving technology.  Go Google TMI and Chernobyl.

Here's another important perspective:  What happens if I get pulled over after leaving my utility driving 15+ MPH over the speed limit while recklessly passing other drivers?  What is the Trooper going to think about me as he walks up and sees me wearing my utility's name on my jacket, a security badge, a TLD with those big cooling towers looming in the distance behind me?   Why should that person of the general public have any confidence in my ability to follow rules...not just traffic rules, but the really important ones that the people in a 10 mile radius around a nuclear plant worry about?

The issue with this thread (et al), in THIS nuclear community is risk management and especially managing human errors.  It's hard to enough to ensure someone follows procedures correctly, fixes nuclear safety system pumps correctly, etc, so there is zero tolerance for substance abuse.   At my utility, if you get caught with alcohol, drugs, etc you are escorted off site. There is no "oh...wait, wait, I'll confess, I'll go to rehab now that I'm caught".  That's the interesting part of MANY of these threads here as people try to "sea-lawyer" the rules:  it's the job of a senior manager to control the margin to various risk-taking endeavors...including hiring, granting waivers for security clearances, and terminating problem employees.  Also, assume a manager DOES decide to fight for a drunk operator to the NRC.   What confidence would the NRC have in that organization's judgement?   Don't ever put your boss in that position to have to put his/her professional credibility on the line to fight for your stupid mistakes!

So, if we were in a college ethics class, or college philosophy class, then perhaps the "pros and cons of legalizing drugs" would be an interesting debate.  I don't think it's appropriate here...and it's disconcerning to many veterans to hear someone say "I'd like some advice to get into this industry" in one thread, but then debate the merits of marijuana in another.   It doesn't sound like you're very serious. 

I just hope you that you and the hundreds of other lurkers in your shoes have a better understanding of what you're up against in this very unforgiving industry as the OP to this thread came here whining about. Please understand, you don't account to us in this forum for anything.  However, someday you will account to people like us in your nuclear job.

Meanwhile, your forum karma will likely affect the quality of advice you receive here.  Again, you don't account to me or anyone else here.  However, if we were on a reality TV show, I think you'd be voted off and going home to WalMart this week.   

Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #97 on: Jul 04, 2010, 08:14 »
Very good advice from many of our esteemed members, especially Co60Slr.

This thread has reached the point where no more value can be added.

All the good points have been made.

I'm locking the thread.

Cheers,
GC
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2010, 08:20 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

 


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