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Offline KUrunner

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Re: got caught
« Reply #75 on: Jul 02, 2010, 07:10 »
Nuke officer spots are few and far in between.  If two people are up for the same job, both equally qualified, who are they going to pick?  The guy on the straight and narrow or the one with less than reputable friends and court fines?  Your philosophy on whether or not pot is okay doesnt' really pertain to the Navy.

As far as who you hang out with goes... it matters.  If you go nuke, you'll be learning classified material.  If the government thinks that you or any of your friends aren't exactly trustworthy, you're not going to get the clearance.  It's a long shot, but theoretically, you're "druggie" friends could try to get you to spill the beans and sell our secrets to the Russians, you know?

And they do check out your friends and your family.  My ex-husband went to hell and back to get his clearance because one of his former roommates had a drug paraphernalia charge on his record. 
The first rule of thermodynamics is you don't talk about thermodynamics.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #76 on: Jul 02, 2010, 08:16 »
And they do check out your friends and your family.  My ex-husband went to hell and back to get his clearance because one of his former roommates had a drug paraphernalia charge on his record. 
They weren't investigating his friends, they were investigating your ex-husband's assertion that he had nothing to do with drugs, yet had friends that did.   

So, the fun part about this thread is that it doesn't matter what we tell these young kids while we hear their ill-fated philosophies (e.g., drug use) on how we should run a nuclear industry.   The investigators are going to interview friends and family looking for "dirt" against his self-proclaimed clean record (e.g., "Although my close friends use drugs, I don't").   All they need is one friend to "sing".  All they need is one "friend" with a cell phone camera...as Michael Phelps found out:


Darwin always wins.   Just sit back and watch.

Oh, and they think that once they're in the Navy they've beaten the system.  (Laughing).  These are the best stories!  That "ghost in your closet" could come out 5-10 years later to haunt you.  There was a cocky, young MM3 in my NPS class that thought he had beaten the system.  They took him out of our NPS class...1 hour after he took the Final Comprehensive Exam.   That person got to go home and tell his proud Navy parents how he finished NPS...right up to the point of never learning his final exam score.  He too had "friends that did drugs", he too had lied on his security application, he too learned he's not smarter than the military security community.  Yes, the security community is overworked, but they don't give up.

So, our young philosopher may be telling the truth on his drug use...maybe not.  It's not my job nor desire to intervene.  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".

These drug use threads are like an episode of the "Biggest Loser".  "Ok, Contestant, this next challenge is for you to present your own sea-lawyered case defending your drug charge for continued service in the nuclear community".   We can just sit back and watch to see who gets sent home this time.  Do not pass go, do not collect a nuclear bonus, back to WalMart.





   

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #77 on: Jul 02, 2010, 10:44 »
  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".

Frickin'-A dittybag !!!

+K to ya for a week!  ;)

Offline thenukeman

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Re: got caught
« Reply #78 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:20 »
Co60Slr, I like Darwin ALWAYS WINS, so smoke your dope, get drunk while driving, hang out with losers, smoke the crack and say I will never be addicted, Say I can stop before I take my Whiz Quiz and pass all the time!!

 I am saying this for the NUBS not the stupid that have already proven DARWIN right. 

Just dont do it and give Darwin a chance.

Had E4 I took up for, I was a weak LT, I now see my Colonel was right, Make examples of all the Darwin Mouth breathers. Others may not tempted to try and acheive their Darwin faith.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #79 on: Jul 02, 2010, 05:50 »
Had E4 I stook up for....
Here's a story:
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2004/11/23/news/story12.html
This E-6 was (if I recall the unwritten story) the PSD "Sailor of the Year" (i.e., model sailor).   Darwin still wins.

I stuck up for a young E-4 (drinking, UA...no DUI/DWI yet).   I won.  He won.  Navy won.   One of the best, most memorable leadership moments I had as a Chief.

I had another one: young E-4, cocaine.   I never would have guessed.   However, he also thought he was too good to be enlisted and dreamed of commissioning programs all the time.  I'm glad he popped positive before the Navy wasted any college money on him.   Darwin almost failed...he was just teasing me though.

Co60

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #80 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:11 »
When I was an LPO on the boat, I had a young sailor who got through his initial investigation, but on his reinvestigation a few years later, those "things" he thought he got away with came back and escorted him off the boat.

Anyway, jabone may be misguided in thinking people can beat drug tests, or that who he associates with doesn't matter, but honestly, he will get his clearance if what he says about himself is true, I would bet a pay check or two on it. We (you) can pontificate all you want about why he may be a douche bag (I am not saying he is), but it is all a little over dramatic I think. My dad smoked the weed most of his life, as well as my brother and sister and many friends, but I never touched it. I never had an issue. Just sayin.

PS

I also had a license suspension, among other things, due to youthful indiscretions when I was a minor. Still got my clearance.
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2010, 11:18 by JustinHEMI »

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: got caught
« Reply #81 on: Jul 02, 2010, 11:25 »
How dare you bring reality back into the discussion Justin?   ;)  Excellent post sir!
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #82 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:00 »
When I was an LPO on the boat, I had a young sailor who got through his initial investigation, but on his reinvestigation a few years later, those "things" he thought he got away with came back and escorted him off the boat.

Anyway, jabone may be misguided in thinking people can beat drug tests, or that who he associates with doesn't matter, but honestly, he will get his clearance if what he says about himself is true, I would bet a pay check or two on it. We (you) can pontificate all you want about why he may be a douche bag (I am not saying he is), but it is all a little over dramatic I think. My dad smoked the weed most of his life, as well as my brother and sister and many friends, but I never touched it. I never had an issue. Just sayin.

PS
I also had a license suspension, among other things, due to youthful indiscretions when I was a minor. Still got my clearance.


Ya'll can bet your paychecks all you want about whether I do drugs or not. I have admitted that I have friends who smoke pot but that does not mean that I do however. I really don't care at all whether you believe me, I know what is true and that's all that matters. I don't know what the big deal about marijuana is really is all I'm saying. People act like it is the worse thing someone could be doing when alcohol is 10 times worse. How many people do you hear about smoking weed and then getting in a car and killing someone or a family. You never hear anything like that in the news at least not a regular basis. The same however cannot be said for alcohol. So many people get drunk and then drive and end up killing someone yet we act like smoking pot is much much worse. Give me a break.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #83 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:21 »

Ya'll can bet your paychecks all you want about whether I do drugs or not. I have admitted that I have friends who smoke pot but that does not mean that I do however. I really don't care at all whether you believe me, I know what is true and that's all that matters. I don't know what the big deal about marijuana is really is all I'm saying. People act like it is the worse thing someone could be doing when alcohol is 10 times worse. How many people do you hear about smoking weed and then getting in a car and killing someone or a family. You never hear anything like that in the news at least not a regular basis. The same however cannot be said for alcohol. So many people get drunk and then drive and end up killing someone yet we act like smoking pot is much much worse. Give me a break.

Hey, dumbass, re read my post and you will see that I am, in fact, giving you a break.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #84 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:28 »
While at the same time still calling me a liar by assuming that you'd bet your paycheck on whether I'm telling the truth. I understand you were trying to give me a break, most of that was meant for the other guys who think that pot is such a terrible thing. I only quoted you for the first sentence that I wrote. The rest was meant for everyone else.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #85 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:31 »
While at the same time still calling me a liar by assuming that you'd bet your paycheck on whether I'm telling the truth. I understand you were trying to give me a break, most of that was meant for the other guys who think that pot is such a terrible thing. I only quoted you for the first sentence that I wrote. The rest was meant for everyone else.

No that is not what I was betting my paycheck on. I was betting my paycheck that you WOULD get a clearance, regardless of your friends, as long as what you say about YOURSELF is true. I am in no way inferring or assuming that you are lying. In fact, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, because I don't know you and have no reason to think you are lying.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 01:32 by JustinHEMI »

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #86 on: Jul 03, 2010, 01:38 »
Ok well then I apologize my bad dude. Just the way yout put it made it seem like I wasn't telling the truth about myself. It's just a misunderstanding of what you meant on my part so I apologize. I just don't get why people think pot is so bad. As I said I do not smoke pot myself, however I have friends who do and I am all for legalizing it. It never harmed no one as far as I know at least. Not as much as alcohol that is. But that is a different debate.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: got caught
« Reply #87 on: Jul 03, 2010, 02:27 »
No worries. I apologize for calling you a bumbass too.

As far as the effects of pot vs alcohol, I think will find that many of us, including me, actually agree with you. But that isn't the point. It doesn't matter what you and I think, what matters is what is the law. And the Navy has a zero tolerance stance. Even if they legalized the stuff tomorrow, the Navy would still have a zero tolerance stance. Also, so would the NRC. So it is a moot argument to debate the merits of pot vs alcohol here.

For the record, I would rather we made billions off of pot instead of spending billions fighting it.

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #88 on: Jul 03, 2010, 02:40 »
Hahaha true that. I guess I just think it should be legal. I mean if I wasn't planning on joining the Navy or any of that and pot was legal, I won't lie. I probably would smoke recreationally. However it is not so no worries, just means I can't get in trouble for something I don't do.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 02:46 by jabONE »

Offline deltarho

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Re: got caught
« Reply #89 on: Jul 03, 2010, 09:52 »
It never harmed no one as far as I know at least. Not as much as alcohol that is. But that is a different debate.

I don't think you would be picked for the debate team--you're not sure what you think.

It never...  because you don't know about it.  Then you acknowledge it may have hurt people, but not as much as alcohol. 

By your logic: Ted Bundy wasn't a bad person; well, not as bad as Adolph Hitler.

What you do admit in your posts is that you have no problem choosing to associate with known law breakers, which speaks volumes about your character.

Before you break out your rationale about the difference in degrees of harm comparing murder to pot, remember that breaking the law, however slight in your mind, is still breaking the law. 

If you cannot have integrity on what some may perceive as little, small, or minor things, how can you be trusted to have integrity on larger, greater, or major issues?  In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.
The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #90 on: Jul 03, 2010, 11:00 »
  Yes, the security community is overworked, but they don't give up.

So, our young philosopher may be telling the truth on his drug use...maybe not.  It's not my job nor desire to intervene.  I just know with no doubt that rest assured, some lurker out there reading this has the job of finding out for sure in some cases and is reinvigorated to do his/her job just as thoroughly as ever in the year 2010. To that person I say:  "Thank you for YOUR service to our Country".   


Amen!!
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #91 on: Jul 03, 2010, 07:25 »
I don't think you would be picked for the debate team--you're not sure what you think.

It never...  because you don't know about it.  Then you acknowledge it may have hurt people, but not as much as alcohol.  

By your logic: Ted Bundy wasn't a bad person; well, not as bad as Adolph Hitler.

What you do admit in your posts is that you have no problem choosing to associate with known law breakers, which speaks volumes about your character.

Before you break out your rationale about the difference in degrees of harm comparing murder to pot, remember that breaking the law, however slight in your mind, is still breaking the law.  

If you cannot have integrity on what some may perceive as little, small, or minor things, how can you be trusted to have integrity on larger, greater, or major issues?  In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.


And everyone breaks the law everyday by speeding but hey no one gives a crap. Yeah sure it's breaking the law but there are worse things to break than others and I think smoking pot isn't that bad even though I personally choose not to do so. Do I think it should be legal, yes I do but it's not so it doesn't matter. That's just my personal belief.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2010, 07:33 by jabONE »

Offline KUrunner

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Re: got caught
« Reply #92 on: Jul 03, 2010, 07:44 »

And everyone breaks the law everyday by speeding but hey no one gives a crap. Yeah sure it's breaking the law but there are worse things to break than others and I think smoking pot isn't that bad even though I personally choose not to do so. Do I think it should be legal, yes I do but it's not so it doesn't matter. That's just my personal belief.

You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 
The first rule of thermodynamics is you don't talk about thermodynamics.

Offline retired nuke

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Re: got caught
« Reply #93 on: Jul 03, 2010, 08:41 »
In the long run, you don't get to decide which laws apply to you and which don't.

Yeah, you pretty much do get to choose. Those which you are willing to pay the price for, you can break. But... if you break it, and get caught, no bitchin.  ;)

I choose to be a pretty much law abiding citizen. Legal guns, I don't drive after drinking, etc. But, as with many on this board, it wasn't always this way.  :o

You know the old adage - judge not, lest ye be judged...

Peace   8)
Remember who you love. Remember what is sacred. Remember what is true.
Remember that you will die, and that this day is a gift. Remember how you wish to live, may the blessing of the Lord be with you

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: got caught
« Reply #94 on: Jul 03, 2010, 08:49 »
You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 

KU, +K to ya for trying. If the opinions of several chiefs and officers (including those involved in the nuclear pipeline) and you ex-husband's experience regarding clearances are unable to sway the attitude, then we've reached the asymptote here. That's why I stopped replying (except for this one ;)

jabONE

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Re: got caught
« Reply #95 on: Jul 03, 2010, 11:54 »
You might want to reconsider your use of "everyone" and "no one." 


How many people honestly care about speeding when driving? And honestly you could not name me one person who has never sped in their life or broken some kind of law in their life. EVERYONE has broken at least one law at some point in their lives whether intentional or unintentional.

co60slr

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Re: got caught
« Reply #96 on: Jul 04, 2010, 08:09 »
How many people honestly care about speeding when driving? And honestly you could not name me one person who has never sped in their life or broken some kind of law in their life. EVERYONE has broken at least one law at some point in their lives whether intentional or unintentional.
State Troopers, Sheriffs, Highway Patrols, etc.  They all care.   In fact, they're employed because of our faulty human condition you describe.  Have you ever been going down the highway at 5+ MPH over the limit and pass a trooper, who then pulls out behind you?  That sinking feeling you get as you know for sure he's after you?  (Yep, raising my hand too).   Well, as a Nuclear Professional, if you get that feeling at work than you have crossed the line and your job is in jeopardy.   And since the supervisor:worker ratio is not 1:1, the nuclear industry expects a tremendous amount of professional maturity, self-control, and self-discipline. If you make a mistake (e.g., bump a circuit breaker open) you are expected to immediately "confess".  Given that tidbit of information, can you understand why people here get excited when you get on your soap box and talk about "breaking rules in society?"   We're not in the mainstream society in this business, we're operating a very unforgiving technology.  Go Google TMI and Chernobyl.

Here's another important perspective:  What happens if I get pulled over after leaving my utility driving 15+ MPH over the speed limit while recklessly passing other drivers?  What is the Trooper going to think about me as he walks up and sees me wearing my utility's name on my jacket, a security badge, a TLD with those big cooling towers looming in the distance behind me?   Why should that person of the general public have any confidence in my ability to follow rules...not just traffic rules, but the really important ones that the people in a 10 mile radius around a nuclear plant worry about?

The issue with this thread (et al), in THIS nuclear community is risk management and especially managing human errors.  It's hard to enough to ensure someone follows procedures correctly, fixes nuclear safety system pumps correctly, etc, so there is zero tolerance for substance abuse.   At my utility, if you get caught with alcohol, drugs, etc you are escorted off site. There is no "oh...wait, wait, I'll confess, I'll go to rehab now that I'm caught".  That's the interesting part of MANY of these threads here as people try to "sea-lawyer" the rules:  it's the job of a senior manager to control the margin to various risk-taking endeavors...including hiring, granting waivers for security clearances, and terminating problem employees.  Also, assume a manager DOES decide to fight for a drunk operator to the NRC.   What confidence would the NRC have in that organization's judgement?   Don't ever put your boss in that position to have to put his/her professional credibility on the line to fight for your stupid mistakes!

So, if we were in a college ethics class, or college philosophy class, then perhaps the "pros and cons of legalizing drugs" would be an interesting debate.  I don't think it's appropriate here...and it's disconcerning to many veterans to hear someone say "I'd like some advice to get into this industry" in one thread, but then debate the merits of marijuana in another.   It doesn't sound like you're very serious. 

I just hope you that you and the hundreds of other lurkers in your shoes have a better understanding of what you're up against in this very unforgiving industry as the OP to this thread came here whining about. Please understand, you don't account to us in this forum for anything.  However, someday you will account to people like us in your nuclear job.

Meanwhile, your forum karma will likely affect the quality of advice you receive here.  Again, you don't account to me or anyone else here.  However, if we were on a reality TV show, I think you'd be voted off and going home to WalMart this week.   

Offline Gamecock

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Re: got caught
« Reply #97 on: Jul 04, 2010, 08:14 »
Very good advice from many of our esteemed members, especially Co60Slr.

This thread has reached the point where no more value can be added.

All the good points have been made.

I'm locking the thread.

Cheers,
GC
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2010, 08:20 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

 


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