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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Flu Season & PCMs
« on: Oct 29, 2009, 01:15 »
We have the type of beta monitors that require the person to put face directly into the detector...major germ transfer potential.  

Has anyone found a way to effectively disinfect the monitors?  

Or how could we convince the RPM to let us turn our face to the side?  I argued that the worries about spreading the flu outweigh the risk of a few counts being missed by the PCM, but...


Thanks for any ideas.  :)

« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2009, 03:43 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #1 on: Oct 30, 2009, 10:29 »
it's a interesting question..and obviously difficult to answer, since there has been "no takers" since it was posted yesterday..

without lab analysis, there is no way to say any effort to disinfect is effective..

I'm just going to throw an idea out for you..I have no idea if it will be acceptable by your site, or work for your PCMs, or even really be effective..but it is at least a starting point for ideas..

Many places use "saran wrap" to protect the foot monitors in the PCM from dirt, water, etc..

You could look at doing the same thing to your face monitors..puff a little lysol spray in there on some frequency..also identify a frequency to change out the saran wrap, based on you PCM traffic..



I like the Saran wrap idea...we had discarded the idea of sprays because of the electrical hazard, residue on detectors, etc...but with plastic wrap, we might pull it off...

...and, if they still didn't like sprays, maybe we could put the Saran wrap on the outside of the protective screen/grill & use wipes...

THANKS!
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2009, 10:32 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #2 on: Oct 30, 2009, 10:43 »
Many places use "saran wrap" to protect the foot monitors in the PCM from dirt, water, etc..

You could look at doing the same thing to your face monitors..puff a little lysol spray in there on some frequency..also identify a frequency to change out the saran wrap, based on you PCM traffic..

Bummer...they shot that one down in record time.  Said they use Saran wrap on the foot monitors, but then that limits the sensitivity...the face monitor wouldn't pass source check with plastic wrap over it...  :(
We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.      - B. Baggins

Offline stormgoalie

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #3 on: Oct 30, 2009, 11:34 »
This may sound a bit odd, but what about having folks wear the face masks like they are having folks wear in hospitals when they suspect a person may be contagious?  They are reasonably thin and will prevent the monitor from being "contaminated" by the user's breath. Am posing the question you have asked to the facility HP here just to bounce ideas off of him.  Will get back to you with anything we come up with.
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #4 on: Oct 30, 2009, 11:46 »
This may sound a bit odd, but what about having folks wear the face masks like they are having folks wear in hospitals when they suspect a person may be contagious?  They are reasonably thin and will prevent the monitor from being "contaminated" by the user's breath. Am posing the question you have asked to the facility HP here just to bounce ideas off of him.  Will get back to you with anything we come up with.

We tried that idea out on them and they shot it down...same logic they used on the Saran wrap...shielding the contamination from the detector...  :(

We will definitely update you if we get a real solution...
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Offline stormgoalie

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #5 on: Oct 30, 2009, 11:55 »
Know that they have shot down the saran wrap idea, but their rationale can be shot down as well.  All you would need to do is wrap the detector and recalibrate to account for the minimal shielding that the saran wrap would have on beta's.   Sure you may have slightly longer count times, but that is really a minimal inconvenience at worst. You still can maintain your release set points and prove due diligence with the monitoring.....
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atomicarcheologist

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #6 on: Oct 30, 2009, 12:25 »
We have the type of beta monitors that require the person to put face directly into the detector...major germ transfer potential.  

Has anyone found a way to effectively disinfect the monitors?  

Thanks for any ideas.  :)



Since you are dealing with an instrument with the capability to measure low energy emissions, any interference will have negative effect.  Disinfection has the potential to to shield the detector via residual film and/or degrade the detector via thinning of the detector surface.
Has there been any study done which will show that there is a problem in the first place, of non-contact transference of the influenza?  I don't know of any.  I know of active spread from person to person.

http://www.cdc.gov/germstopper/work.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/preventing.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/preventing.htm

I would think that to train the workers against licking the screens, one would do as well to minimize the spread of flu in your facility as any other methodology.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #7 on: Oct 30, 2009, 12:29 »
Since you are dealing with an instrument with the capability to measure low energy emissions, any interference will have negative effect.  Disinfection has the potential to to shield the detector via residual film and/or degrade the detector via thinning of the detector surface.
Has there been any study done which will show that there is a problem in the first place, of non-contact transference of the influenza?  I don't know of any.  I know of active spread from person to person.

http://www.cdc.gov/germstopper/work.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/preventing.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/preventing.htm

I would think that to train the workers against licking the screens, one would do as well to minimize the spread of flu in your facility as any other methodology.


Yeah, I agree that contact with contaminated surfaces or proximity to infected individuals are transfer routes.  Our logic was that breathing at close range on a contaminated surface would stir the virus up enough to make it airborne...?
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2009, 04:20 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline stormgoalie

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #8 on: Oct 30, 2009, 12:39 »
You are well and truly caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. As I don't know what facility you currently work at, what are the primary isotopes of concern?  If you were primarily dealing with particulate C-14 I could see you having an issue with attenuation in almost any type of covering you might look at putting over the detectors, vs Sr/Y-90 which would ignore thin material.  This is making for an interesting day at work as now my facility HP is scratching his head about what we are going to do as our monitors are of a design that requires you to face the detectors AND we have C-14 that could be an issue.
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atomicarcheologist

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #9 on: Oct 30, 2009, 12:39 »
Yeah, I agree that contact with contaminated surfaces or proximity to infected individuals are the transfer routes.  Our logic was that breathing at close range on a contaminated surface would stir the virus up enough to make it airborne...?

Maybe your facility should have a cool down period after heavy exertion so that normal breathing patterns are exhibited?  I am just rolling the cranial discs back to RadCon training for airborne calculations and air movement that I would associate with normal breathing doesn't calculate much increase, if any.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #10 on: Oct 30, 2009, 03:13 »
You are well and truly caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. As I don't know what facility you currently work at, what are the primary isotopes of concern?  If you were primarily dealing with particulate C-14 I could see you having an issue with attenuation in almost any type of covering you might look at putting over the detectors, vs Sr/Y-90 which would ignore thin material.  This is making for an interesting day at work as now my facility HP is scratching his head about what we are going to do as our monitors are of a design that requires you to face the detectors AND we have C-14 that could be an issue.

I'm at a BWR...your typical mix...mostly activation isotopes w/ a few fission products thrown in for entertainment.  Nothing esoteric as a limiting isotope.
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Offline stormgoalie

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #11 on: Oct 30, 2009, 03:26 »
I'm at a BWR...your typical mix...mostly activation isotopes w/ a few fission products thrown in for entertainment.  Nothing esoteric as a limiting isotope.

Good stuff!!  Which BWR if I may ask. Worked an outage at Columbia GS in 1996 as a laborer and have an ex-wife that works there now LOL. 
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Offline Adam Grundleger

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #12 on: Oct 30, 2009, 05:37 »
You could provide facilities to wash up after using the PCM, i.e.: wet-naps.  I'd be more worried about contact transferrence than getting viral particles airborne via breathing on the detectors. 

A good disinfecting spray like Cavicide or Spray-nine could be a winner, if only for end of shift or periodic cleanings.

No real good choices on this one.  Paranoia over minor levels of contamination trumps legitimate concern over nasty biological threat. 

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #13 on: Oct 30, 2009, 05:52 »
put every buddy in respirators whose working inna area dat requires monitoring two exit.  then put a dust mask over dare face so day can't contaminate da probes with pignose flue.  den run da dust mask thru a tool monitor.  problem solved.  ;)
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Flu Season & PCMs
« Reply #14 on: Oct 31, 2009, 03:50 »
You could provide facilities to wash up after using the PCM, i.e.: wet-naps.  I'd be more worried about contact transferrence than getting viral particles airborne via breathing on the detectors. 

A good disinfecting spray like Cavicide or Spray-nine could be a winner, if only for end of shift or periodic cleanings.

No real good choices on this one.  Paranoia over minor levels of contamination trumps legitimate concern over nasty biological threat. 

We have pump bottles of waterless handcleaner just outside the PCMS, so are good on the hands...just trying to bump the flu fight up another notch...

I guess the RPM is paid to focus on the contamination...so we are considering going over his head and trying to see if the site manager will overrule him on letting us monitor with our heads to the side...
We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.      - B. Baggins

 


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