Concerning marketability when getting out...

[flatlander86]

Hey, everyone,

I just recently got to my first ship, and am finally seeing the real nuclear navy. All through training (including getting stuck in the infamous 6-month long training hold in Ballston Spa), I've loved the idea of what job I was getting into. I've busted my butt the entire time and have been fairly successful this far. But after getting to the ship, and seeing how things are done (lack of positive reinforcement, no concern for people's well-being, increasing working hours to fix low production caused by low morale - because raising taxes helps a struggling economy, right?), I'm pretty sure this is something I don't want to be a part of for 20 years. I want to get a degree while I'm in, but it seems like a daunting task considering the ridiculous hours we're working. Is an online degree a viable option? Or is that just viewed as a joke on the outside? Should I re-up and finish up a degree at shore duty? Or is a degree even necessary? Should I just go for PPWS instead? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to continue with nuclear power on the outside. I love working with nuclear power, I would just rather work for someone who has a clue about being a leader. And that's something that doesn't seem to exist in the Navy. Not on my ship, anyway.

[Neutron_Herder]

First off, congrats for making it through the pipeline.  It's not an easy task, and I'm sure you had to say goodbye to some friends that didn't cut it along the way...

The six month delay in the pipeline was necessary...  There were some deficiencies in the program and they needed to be corrected.  I won't say anything more than that.  Sucks to be the one sitting around waiting to proceed in school, and trust me;  the fleet is feeling the pause in training much more than anyone stuck on shore duty!

Sounds to me like you're stuck in a shipyard period that's not going well (Enterprise?), and you're feeling the pain associated with it.  It happens, and all I can say is deal with it.  It's part of the job, and if you pay attention you can learn a lot!

Low morale does impact production, it's a fact of life.  If production goes down, hours go up.  I'm not saying it's the right answer, but neither is letting everyone go home at 8 or 9 in the morning.

No concern for people's well being?  Please elaborate!!  It's not often the a Nuke will be in danger of physical harm, I'd be interested to hear what that danger is...

If you don't want to do it for 20 years, don't.  Finish the contract you signed and go home.  It will be challenging to finish your degree while on a ship, especially on you first tour.  That time is intended to teach you how everything works, and there's really not much time for anything else.  PPWS is possible on your first tour, but it won't be given to you.  You have to be better than the rest, and then MAYBE...

If you want a degree and PPWS, do your time on the boat and go to prototype.  You'll be able to do both. 

Other than that, keep your head up and qualify every single thing that they allow you to!  It's easy to get bitter when in a bad situation, it's harder to see what needs to be done and do it.  Look at the bigger picture and do everything you can to make yourself better...  It does pay off, just  not tomorrow.

[HydroDave63]

Hey, everyone,

I just recently got to my first ship, and am finally seeing the real nuclear navy. All through training (including getting stuck in the infamous 6-month long training hold in Ballston Spa), I've loved the idea of what job I was getting into. I've busted my butt the entire time and have been fairly successful this far. But after getting to the ship, and seeing how things are done (lack of positive reinforcement, no concern for people's well-being, increasing working hours to fix low production caused by low morale - because raising taxes helps a struggling economy, right?), I'm pretty sure this is something I don't want to be a part of for 20 years. I want to get a degree while I'm in, but it seems like a daunting task considering the ridiculous hours we're working. Is an online degree a viable option? Or is that just viewed as a joke on the outside? Should I re-up and finish up a degree at shore duty? Or is a degree even necessary? Should I just go for PPWS instead? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to continue with nuclear power on the outside. I love working with nuclear power, I would just rather work for someone who has a clue about being a leader. And that's something that doesn't seem to exist in the Navy. Not on my ship, anyway.

I really like the Navy so far, especially since I was blessed with the opportunity to make it into the NNPP, and I don't intend on getting out until after I've qualified PPWS and made Chief. And making a career out of it and retiring is still a definite possibility. I just hope that by choosing my rate, I haven't screwed myself out of the opportunities that my ET/MM/ELT counterparts are getting whenever the time comes to move on.

Interesting how things change in a month...you enjoyed the gravy benefits of schools and bonuses paid from our taxes, now it's 4 years of eating your vegetables!

As far as post-Navy opportunities...6 and outs are a dime a dozen. The more you can add to your resume, the better...

[co60slr]

Is an online degree a viable option? Or is that just viewed as a joke on the outside?

Should I re-up and finish up a degree at shore duty? Or is a degree even necessary? Should I just go for PPWS instead? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to continue with nuclear power on the outside.

I love working with nuclear power, I would just rather work for someone who has a clue about being a leader. And that's something that doesn't seem to exist in the Navy. Not on my ship, anyway.

Yes, an online degree is probably your best option.  No, it's not viewed as a joke, but you have to pick the degree program that matches your future goals.  For example, you're not going to design new reactors with an Excelsior or TESC degree.

Degree and PPWS?  Absolutely.  As posted, the more you tackle for your resume, the more competitive you'll be.  You weren't expecting any other answer...were you?

Finally, welcome to the advanced side of the nuclear industry.  It's difficult.   The prospective nukes posting their "wide-eyed" excitement in the "Navy: Getting In" section is usually a stark contrast to the posts in the "Navy: Getting Out" section.  However, I'll shatter your bubble by saying that there are good and bad leaders everywhere...military or civilian.  If you're looking to work in the perfect "Garden of Eden", then you're forever going to be disappointed.   Learn how to make your existing circumstance a positive one, but then don't ever be afraid to quit a job and "move on" when the time is right.  The Navy does a great job of making you feel guilty about separating; however, life moves on for everyone.

Meanwhile, here's some highly recommended reading for you and anyone else that thinks you're working for a twit.   Learn from their mistakes and continue to shape your own leadership style.  I learned more from my first (horrible) CPO than all the rest combined.  Meanwhile, this book helped give me hope during some of my "darkest days":  https://www.johnmaxwell.com/store/products.php?product=The-360-Degree-Leader/

Regardless of your opinion of your leaders, or your CO's opinion of the same people, the one fact that holds true: The Chain of Command has to work.  My boot camp CC taught me that in the first month of boot camp, and the philosophy seems to hold true for any organization.  You don't like your leaders?  Than become part of the solution.  Be the person that your CPO or D.O. can turn to even in the darkest conditions under the worst morale.  Than, see what happens to your career.  Read the book.

Good Luck.

[g8r2th]

I completely agree with Co60Slr. What you have to realize (and most people tend to forget) is that your "twit who doesn't have a clue about leadership" is not far removed from the exact same position you are in right now; bitching about his leadership and everything. Guess what, the cycle is going to continue until someone, thats you, does their part to make a change for the better.

[flatlander86]

Just wanna say I appreciate your responses. I'll take any advice I can get from people currently in the field.

NH - I agree that the training hold was necessary. I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't think that it was. It just wasn't very pleasant (although looking back, it was 6 extra months of going home every night - and 6 extra months to learn the plant. I knew that thing like the back of my hand by the time I graduated). As for people's well-being, I realize that we're not being told to march on while bullets are whistling past our heads. However, people's emotional and psychological well-beings are not cared about.

HD - Haha, yeah. But the vegetables don't go down as smoothly as they used to.

Co60 - I'm definitely going to check out that book. It's on my wishlist.

g8r - I do realize that that's the case, which is what makes it so much harder to accept why things are the way they are. Knowing that these people are not far removed from where I am, why have they seemed to have already forgotten where they came from? Is it because by the time you make E-7+, you're set for retirement, you know you'll never get fired, so you just stop really caring? And I'm not suggesting that's always the case. I've met many chiefs who were awesome and cared about their guys. I actually just recently listened to one stand up to a commander and fight for his guys, because the situation is so bad here.

But I digress. I can go on and on with this subject to no avail. I guess the moral is to suck it up and get through it, with the long-term in mind. After just a few months I can already feel myself growing numb to it all. Thank you all for your time.

[Fermi2]

Quit your damn whining and get qualified NUB.

[Pirate Bob]

Quit your damn whining and get qualified NUB.

Somehow, I was expecting that.

Try and stay sane, flatlander.  I feel your pain (which will look like a minor bruising when I look back in my coming years, I'm sure).  It is very difficult to be a part of the solution, but I'm still trying.  First, however, I must finish my boards so that I am finally senior-in-rate (hey, at least I got ESWS already).

Peace and rad-release.