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Offline ETCS-RO

Offer package questions
« on: Jan 19, 2010, 03:58 »
I have a couple of questions regarding my first offer.  Navy E-8, retiring after 20 years.  I just got a pay and benefits offer from my last interview for a Shift Support Supervisor.  Part of the package includes the medical and insurance coverage.  I have looked through some of the threads and understand that typically salary is non-negotiable but what about the medical/insurance portion.  Can I negotiate that since I have already got that covered somewhere else as a retiree?  Also wondering about relocation provided by the company.  Is that negotiable?  The navy is already going to pay for that since I would be moving within my home of record distance.  It just seems to me that the offer summary they offer is over inflated for something I have already earned through the military and the offer seems larger on paper than it really is, where could I negotiate the money to?  Could I ask that the relocation be offered as a sign on bonus instead?  Can the medical/insurance package be relocated into salary?  Sorry for the questions but its the first offer and I still have 4 months until terminal.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #1 on: Jan 19, 2010, 04:19 »
And the answer is... it depends. Isn't it always?

Most likely the parts you don't want can be traded out, rarely at full face value (but sometimes.) Asking for the moving costs as a bonus is not a bad idea, but you may get a portion instead of the full amount. Insurance should not be difficult if you can prove you have other insurance that is comparable. In that case you are sometimes given the amount they would have spent on it as an addition to your income. But, it depends on the type of insurance program you are looking at.

For example, one major utility I worked for gave $X a month for insurance and a 'cafeteria' style package where you got to pick and choose your coverage (within limits.) If your spouse had coverage that included you, you could opt out all together, and take a slightly reduced amount as a monthly addition to your paycheck (I was paid monthly there.) The allowance varied on your marital status and number of children, so a single guy with no kids (me) got less than others... but since my insurance was less and I didn't need life insurance I made out. If you spent more than your allotment, you paid the difference each month through payroll deduction. Spend less, and you got the difference. If they let you out of the insurance and the do 'cafeteria style' that is probably how it will work.

One negotiable that recruiters are often willing to play with is vacation time because it does not affect their bottom line... the only person that feels the pinch is your boss when you are gone for longer than you should have been otherwise.

I am sure that utilities are very accustomed to dealing with Navy retirees and will have more specific answers to your questions. The worst thing you can do is not ask. If you do ask, the answer may be no, but if you don't ask I can guarantee what the answer will be.
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #2 on: Jan 19, 2010, 08:18 »
The last time I had a cafeteria plan, about 12 years ago, the company gave every employee a bi-weekly allowance of $110. You could use that to purchase health insurance and other similar benefits.  If you opted out, you got the $110 included in your taxable income every other week.  Everybody got the same allowance, but single folks paid nothing for medical and dental coverage, so they either used it for the other items or took the cash.  For full family coverage, I paid the $110 plus about $45 every two weeks out of my pay.
Like I said, it was 12 years ago.  So, the numbers are probably a lot different now.
If the company does not offer a cafeteria plan, you're going to have to ask for the money in lieu of insurance.  You won't get it if you don't ask.

As far as the relocation goes, don't throw that away just yet.  The Navy pays to pack, move, and unpack your household goods to the point where you first entered active duty.  (If you aren't going that far, you are still entitled to the money) 
There are limits on the amount of goods they will pay to move.  Find out exactly what the new employer will cover before you give it away.  I was once offered a package that would pay for moving, re-cutting, and installing the carpets and drapes from my old house to the new one.  It covered the shipment of vehicles (including boats, motorcycles, and RV's) which could easily exceed your allowance from the Navy.  It may include temporary lodging while you wait for your new house to be ready and for your furniture to arrive.  This could come in handy since the Navy won't pay DLA for separation or retirement moves.  But if they offer cash, that might be a good deal too.
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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #3 on: Jan 19, 2010, 11:40 »
And the answer is... it depends. Isn't it always?

Most likely the parts you don't want can be traded out, rarely at full face value (but sometimes.) Asking for the moving costs as a bonus is not a bad idea, but you may get a portion instead of the full amount. Insurance should not be difficult if you can prove you have other insurance that is comparable. In that case you are sometimes given the amount they would have spent on it as an addition to your income. But, it depends on the type of insurance program you are looking at.

For example, one major utility I worked for gave $X a month for insurance and a 'cafeteria' style package where you got to pick and choose your coverage (within limits.) If your spouse had coverage that included you, you could opt out all together, and take a slightly reduced amount as a monthly addition to your paycheck (I was paid monthly there.) The allowance varied on your marital status and number of children, so a single guy with no kids (me) got less than others... but since my insurance was less and I didn't need life insurance I made out. If you spent more than your allotment, you paid the difference each month through payroll deduction. Spend less, and you got the difference. If they let you out of the insurance and the do 'cafeteria style' that is probably how it will work.

One negotiable that recruiters are often willing to play with is vacation time because it does not affect their bottom line... the only person that feels the pinch is your boss when you are gone for longer than you should have been otherwise.

I am sure that utilities are very accustomed to deaaling with Navy retirees and will have more specific aunswers to your questions. The worst thing you can do is not ask. If you do ask, the answer may be no, but if you don't ask I can guarantee what the answer will be.
Now is the time to negotiate that you are saving them bookuu dollars on medical insurance....usually a company pays 80-85% of the total cost of a family medical insurance package....so at $10000/mo ...you are saving the company 10k/yr.....let them know that you realize how much that you waiving their insurance saves them....in 5 yrs that turns into 50k saved for them...I would certainly negotiate a higher salary in return

Offline Neutron_Herder

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #4 on: Jan 20, 2010, 02:55 »
Definitely don't give up the company relocation until you've gone through the whole package.  I'm in the middle of a Navy retirement / relocation move now, and I'll tell you that the company will probably take better care of you than the Navy will.

Yes, the Navy will pack your goods and move them anywhere in the continental US, but that's about it.  You'll get the mileage and lodging for the trip back after you file your travel claim, but we all know where retirees fall in the stack...  We're on the bottom.  If they're offering you a "full" relocation plan it could include all of your travel expenses up front, some of which are taxable and some not.  I won't get into that part here, but it's a good chuck of change.  You might be able to do a pick and choose thing with your relocation plan, like use your move from the Navy but still get the other bennies they offer.  Can't hurt to ask.

If you're a homeowner, it could get even sweeter.  Several of the relocation plans offer home selling and buying assistance, including covering title fees, attorney fees, and some other stuff.  If you're a renter it might not be as sweet, but still a good deal.  Plus, with a company sponsored relocation the moving company is going to have the company leaning on them to get you moved in a rapid manner.  A retiree relocation...  think "space a" on a MAC flight. 

Here's what I did, don't know how it'll all work out yet but I'll let you know when it's all done:

I was a renter when I retired and took the company relocation plan.  On very short notice (about 1 week) they moved me from VA to MS.  I don't have my household goods yet, but that's only because the furniture left my house in VA on Friday and was ready to deliver in MS on Monday.  I was still trying to get me, my wife, and two stupid cats down here.  If I had made the trip as fast as the movers I would have had my furniture back in my new house in about 72 hours.  Unfortunately I have to wait until Friday (7 days).  Plus with a good relo package you get money upfront, which is a good thing.  Becoming a resident of a new state when you're not active duty is pretty expensive...  It cost me $650 today just to get plates for my 2 cars, and neither of them is really nice (Ford Escape and Focus).  I had money saved for this kind of stuff, but it's nice to be reimbursed beforehand.

My devious plan is to rent until I qualify SRO then buy.  My pay will be higher, plus I'll know the area.  Then I'll use my Navy move to go from my apartment here to my new house.  Plus I won't have to worry about maintaining a home while qualifying.  At TAP they say you have 12 months to use it, but they also said you can extend that to 36 months.  If they were lying...  oh well, too late now.

As far as the health insurance goes I really don't know.  I plan on sticking with the Tricare Prime stuff since that's what my kids in TN use and it's working well for them.  I don't want to do anything to upset that, since it is working.  I've heard about companies offering financial incentives for not using their insurance, but I've also recently (in the last 2 years) heard about some possible legislation to prevent companies from offering financial incentives to vets who use their veteran's medical benefits instead of paying for them again.  I'm really not sure what happened with that, but it could be something that comes with all of this new healthcare legislation that's forthcoming.

Keep in mind that if you use the company health plan in any way whatsoever that Tricare automatically becomes the secondary to that.  I tried to use set it up as a supplemental thing, but it's forbidden by law.

Also remember that sign on bonuses (and bonuses in general) are taxed at a higher rate than you salary would be.  You'd make out much better with just a small salary increase than you would with a bonus.  It's taxed lower, and it counts as income so you can put more into your company's 401k.

In short, don't reject the relocation out of hand...  it's worth more than it might seem!  Plus having your relocation people paid by the company you're going to work for could make things go a little more smoothly.  My move was relatively effortless, other than the 16 hour drive with a wife and pets!

Guess I've rambled enough, plus I'm sure my neighbor is getting tired of me using his unsecured wi-fi.  Good luck with your negotiations, let me know if you have any questions.

Jay
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Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #5 on: Jan 20, 2010, 07:28 »
Thanks for all the info so far.  I'm just going to get with the HR rep and get some answers to these questions.  As far as moving, the plant is only 120 miles from where I live and in the same state, my home of record is 650 miles different state.  Still trying to decide whether to take it or not, I still have 4 months until I go on terminal leave but the HR rep told me these offers typically have a life of 2 weeks.  Thanks for the help so far.

Rich

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #6 on: Jan 20, 2010, 08:46 »
From my experience, unless your are going to be a union employee, you can negotiate the pay.  You live and learn.
LM

Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #7 on: Jan 20, 2010, 11:20 »
Gave some of my questions to the HR rep, sounded like it kind of baffled him but he understood what I was asking in regards to the total package value.  Said he would find out and get back.

Offline NukeLDO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #8 on: Jan 20, 2010, 02:12 »
Thanks for all the info so far.  I'm just going to get with the HR rep and get some answers to these questions.  As far as moving, the plant is only 120 miles from where I live and in the same state, my home of record is 650 miles different state.  Still trying to decide whether to take it or not, I still have 4 months until I go on terminal leave but the HR rep told me these offers typically have a life of 2 weeks.  Thanks for the help so far.
Rich

You keep using the home of record distance in your conversation, but it isn't germane to your situation.  As a retiree, the government will move you anywhere within the continental US, not just within the 650 mile distance to your home of record.  (Unless something has drastically changed that I'm not aware of)
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #9 on: Jan 20, 2010, 02:40 »
Guess I'll have to check.  I could swear that during tap the psd rep said HOR distance.

Offline NukeLDO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #10 on: Jan 20, 2010, 04:08 »
Guess I'll have to check.  I could swear that during tap the psd rep said HOR distance.

The way I understand the rule is that the HOR restriction is for folks separating from service, not retiring.
Once in while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #11 on: Jan 20, 2010, 04:16 »
1: Last I checked it was HOR.

2: As for insurance plans, the utility has an Opt Out. You'll get anywhere between 500 to about 900 each year for not joining their plan. There is no raise in salary. It's standard throughout the industry.

3: No if you don't accept the utilities offer to move you won't get reimbursed by them.

4: You're a cog in a wheel. Most likely they made a standard offer that they made to every other T Baller who accepted a position. Your background isn't exceptional and since you've done nothing you can be replaced.


Offline Already Gone

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #12 on: Jan 20, 2010, 08:17 »
Go figure!  This is the US Government, so it has to be complicated.

(1) Under uniform regulations prescribed by the Secretaries concerned and as provided in paragraph (2), a member who - (A) is retired, or is placed on the temporary disability retired list, under chapter 61 of title 10; (B) is retired with pay under any other law, or, immediately following at least eight years of continuous active duty with no single break therein or more than 90 days, is discharged with separation pay or severance pay or is involuntarily released from active duty with separation pay or readjustment pay; or (C) is involuntarily separated from active duty during the period beginning on October 1, 1990, and ending on December 31, 2001, may, not later than one year from the date he is so retired, placed on that list, involuntarily separated, discharged, or released, except as prescribed in regulations by the Secretaries concerned, select his home for the purposes of the travel and transportation allowances authorized by subsection (a). (2) A member authorized under paragraph (1) to select a home for the purposes of such allowances may select as his home - (A) any place within the United States; (B) the place outside the United States from which the member was called or ordered to active duty to his first duty station; or (C) any other place.

However, if the member selects as his home a place other than a place described in clause (A) or (B) of the preceding sentence, the travel and transportation allowances authorized by subsection (a) may not exceed the allowances which would be payable if the place selected as his home were in the United States (other than Hawaii or Alaska).

Read more: http://vlex.com/vid/travel-transportation-allowances-general-19231082#ixzz0dCn2QMYR

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Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #13 on: Jan 20, 2010, 08:36 »
Go figure!  This is the US Government, so it has to be complicated.

(1) Under uniform regulations prescribed by the Secretaries concerned and as provided in paragraph (2), a member who - (A) is retired, or is placed on the temporary disability retired list, under chapter 61 of title 10; (B) is retired with pay under any other law, or, immediately following at least eight years of continuous active duty with no single break therein or more than 90 days, is discharged with separation pay or severance pay or is involuntarily released from active duty with separation pay or readjustment pay; or (C) is involuntarily separated from active duty during the period beginning on October 1, 1990, and ending on December 31, 2001, may, not later than one year from the date he is so retired, placed on that list, involuntarily separated, discharged, or released, except as prescribed in regulations by the Secretaries concerned, select his home for the purposes of the travel and transportation allowances authorized by subsection (a). (2) A member authorized under paragraph (1) to select a home for the purposes of such allowances may select as his home - (A) any place within the United States; (B) the place outside the United States from which the member was called or ordered to active duty to his first duty station; or (C) any other place.

However, if the member selects as his home a place other than a place described in clause (A) or (B) of the preceding sentence, the travel and transportation allowances authorized by subsection (a) may not exceed the allowances which would be payable if the place selected as his home were in the United States (other than Hawaii or Alaska).

Read more: http://vlex.com/vid/travel-transportation-allowances-general-19231082#ixzz0dCn2QMYR




Not sure if the question got answered or I just leased a car....:)


Offline cincinnatinuke

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #14 on: Jan 20, 2010, 08:46 »
1: Last I checked it was HOR.

2: As for insurance plans, the utility has an Opt Out. You'll get anywhere between 500 to about 900 each year for not joining their plan. There is no raise in salary. It's standard throughout the industry.

3: No if you don't accept the utilities offer to move you won't get reimbursed by them.

4: You're a cog in a wheel. Most likely they made a standard offer that they made to every other T Baller who accepted a position. Your background isn't exceptional and since you've done nothing you can be replaced.



1.)  I got out on a disability (intially temporary then later rated as permanent).  I was allowed to move myself, family, and household goods to somewhere other than my HOR.

2.)  About $600 a year is what I collect in my opt out using Tricare.  We have the "cafeteria" style plan described earlier.  Unfortunately I dont get the full amount offered to those purchasing company insurance.  I get a reduced amount, hence $600 annually.  Would have been nice but that's life in the "big leagues".

3.)  I did see a guy have the company move him and then request the weight tickets.  He then submitted a DITY.  Seemed fishy, but he got the weight tickets and the money from the Navy.  Go figure?

4.)  Let me thank the OP for his 20 years.  I know he didnt ask for my or anyone else's opinion on his resume but since BZ is dishing out his usual diatribe I figure I'm good.  I'd also like to add that although BZ may have done "something" in this biz and his background "exceptional" he too can be replaced.  I am sure any plant he left from didnt insert rods, yank the fuel out, lock the doors, and turn their license in.  But you never know.

Offline LT Dan

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #15 on: Jan 20, 2010, 08:54 »
1: Last I checked it was HOR.

4: You're a cog in a wheel. Most likely they made a standard offer that they made to every other T Baller who accepted a position. Your background isn't exceptional and since you've done nothing you can be replaced.




Looks like you are wrong, again.

For someone who claims to be so smart, you are pretty dumb.

And, telling a senior chief that he hasn't done anything spectacular

 makes you sound like a really big a$$.

Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #16 on: Jan 20, 2010, 09:56 »
Don't worry, i have enough salt on my shoulders to let idiot comments bother me.  Some people just feel they are greater than all and prove themselves wrong everytime they speak.  Thanks for the comments, even though some people think my or someone elses 20 years are a waste because we were not in their shoes.

Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #17 on: Jan 20, 2010, 10:00 »
HR rep said they do not offer an opt out program, too complicated.  Did offer a sign on bonus instead but seemed very weak and as some of you have pointed out, probably very highly taxed.  Seems like the offer as a whole went down considerably today.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #18 on: Jan 20, 2010, 10:17 »
They might be reading this very thread....  :P

Offline retired nuke

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #19 on: Jan 21, 2010, 06:59 »
2: As for insurance plans, the utility has an Opt Out. You'll get anywhere between 500 to about 900 each year for not joining their plan. There is no raise in salary. It's standard throughout the industry.


My utility does not compensate for an opt out. Maybe we are not in your industry??   :o


Oh, and Chief - thanks for your service. I have several friends that retired from the service - regardless of rate or rank, they (and you) sacrificed a lot to keep those of us at home safe. 
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2010, 07:02 by HouseDad »
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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #20 on: Jan 21, 2010, 08:58 »

Looks like you are wrong, again.

For someone who claims to be so smart, you are pretty dumb.

And, telling a senior chief that he hasn't done anything spectacular

 makes you sound like a really big a$$.
I've been reading these posts a long time and although I don't personally know Broadzilla I respect him. He does offer help in many ways,privately and publicly from what I see. I think he says things like that because we have all met many people coming from the service who think that is how the commercial world should operate. It is their only experience in the nuclear field. Sometimes they come out with their heads still up their a** and I think Broadzilla is trying to help them extract it. I have been wrong before though.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #21 on: Jan 21, 2010, 10:51 »
Hehehe.

I don't know WTF that regulation actually says, but it appears to me that it means they will pay for your trip anywhere in the world that you decide within a year as long as it doesn't cost more than a move inside CONUS.

Yeah, BZ can lay a smackdown on you.  The truth is that nobody (including BZ) really considers your Navy experience to be nothing.  It's just that it bears so little resemblance to the job out here.  What you do takes talent.  But the talent is the only part you get to bring with you when you leave.  The experience that has served to hone your talent hasn't done anything other than that to prepare you for a career out here.  You will get jobs to do that are of a similar nature - and you'll handle them well, but they won't be the same jobs you are doing now.  You won't be able to say "I've done this before."  Instead, you'll say. "I've done something like this before."

Not that everyone gets out of the Navy with an attitude that they are nuclear gods, but there is a little something there that needs to get smacked out of them.  Don't worry though.  You might just be a cog on a wheel, but we are no more than fellow cogs.  "Welcome to the machine."


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Offline ETCS-RO

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #22 on: Jan 21, 2010, 11:17 »
I'm sure BZ does offer a great amount of help to everyone both on and off this site.  But I'm not sure how his comment 4 offered anything to my question except for BZ to make himself feel above all.  You would think I asked "Good Lord, after 20 years of glowing service, I can't believe they think this thing they handed me is anything more than a Wal-Mart offer."  But to put a comment up that equates me to a high school grad and call that helpful, well, I'll just leave it at that.

Offline xforcehunter

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #23 on: Jan 21, 2010, 10:02 »
I have looked through some of the threads and understand that typically salary is non-negotiable...
I just got out a few months ago.  My utility negotiated with me in regards to my salary and sign on bonus (and I'm just a T-baller with a less than exceptional background).  Don't just assume that they won't give any ground.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Offer package questions
« Reply #24 on: Jan 21, 2010, 10:53 »
Still trying to decide whether to take it or not, I still have 4 months until I go on terminal leave but the HR rep told me these offers typically have a life of 2 weeks.  

That's the part I'd worry about, have they brought that up  in conversation again?
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2010, 11:27 by HydroDave63 »

 


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