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Offline koop225

Outages For 2010
« on: Jan 22, 2010, 02:09 »
Hi. I'm fairly new to the nuclear world. I worked for 10 months doing firewatch and then went to a steam generator outage this past fall as a Jr. Deconner. I am finding that trying to get into a couple outages for the spring is damm near impossible. I've been calling recruiters since the end of october for the spring. I have been calling everyday since then. I still have not gotten into any outages for the spring. I am totally lost on what to do. I've said that I will go anywhere and do anything I can get but still nothing. Does anyone have any advice for me on what I'm doing wrong, If I'm doing anything wrong? What can I do to make sure I get a spot for work?  
« Last Edit: Jan 22, 2010, 09:35 by koop225 »

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #1 on: Jan 22, 2010, 03:05 »
Begging Eric Bartlett is a good place to start......it worked for me, 12 years ago.
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Offline koop225

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #2 on: Jan 22, 2010, 03:51 »
I call joey everyday.....i mean everyday.....is that not good enough?.....i tell him i will go anywhere and do anything.

Offline Old HP

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #3 on: Jan 22, 2010, 08:56 »
Were you a deconner or a good deconner there is a difference.  ( Same goes for HPs.)
What kind of evaluation did you have?  It sometimes makes a difference.

If you have tried that hard and don't have a job offer, perhaps it is time to try a different company.

Offline koop225

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #4 on: Jan 22, 2010, 09:45 »
I was a good deconner. I was always early to work and never missed a day at the last outage. I do believe I got an overall B on my review. I always did what I was told and asked questions when there was an issue. I always volunteered for work. I think overall I was a good worker.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2010, 10:42 »
I call joey everyday.....i mean everyday.....is that not good enough?.....i tell him i will go anywhere and do anything.

That is good, UNLESS its Monday, and he tells you to call him Friday.  ASK him when you should call back.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to check with at least one other recruiter.

Have you called any other companies?

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #6 on: Jan 23, 2010, 11:07 »
Don't fall in the trap and feel like Job.   Why are good deconners not offered jobs, and feel it must be you as some suggest.   That what Job "friends" tried to tell him it was something he did or he would not be cursed.   If you were a good deonner it is no guarantee of future jobs. You may be a victim of good old boy" network where preferred people are given the jobs even if they are inferior, but know the right people.   I've seen it many times.   Take the Spring outage.   For some reason Millstone is not taking juniors we are told.   So even if, like my daughters who have been there many times and got good evaluations, are not even offered a position.   What do you do?   First, realized you have no real friends in the business, no recruiter who will always come through, and you have to just keep getting as many contacts as possible and take a job whoever offers first, and if you regular recruiter calls you at the last minute after you have taken something else, that is the way it goes.   I applied for Hanford prior to the job I am at now.   My job called first, I took it and am still there, and the recruiter seemed miffed at me for not dropping the first job when an offer from Hanford finally came.   Don't expect too much from people and you will never be disappointed, and you'll keep working.

Offline koop225

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #7 on: Jan 24, 2010, 12:35 »
He does tell me when to call back which is usually the next day. I have also contacted Atlantic, but the same thing there. As far as recruiters, I have contacted a few at bartlett and a few at atlantic, and I still get nothing. I know I'm fairly new but it seems I cant get a job anywhere.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #8 on: Jan 24, 2010, 01:58 »
call whitney and ask about limerick.

Offline koop225

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #9 on: Jan 24, 2010, 06:22 »
I talked to scott about limerick, he said to call back monday.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #10 on: Jan 25, 2010, 02:08 »
You might also consider work that does not include outages, try calling, or emailing some of these other companies:

http://www.nukeworker.com/job/list_companies.php

Offline sparky601

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #11 on: Jan 26, 2010, 06:47 »
hey im new to this sit and im a cwce ibew local 601. ive never worked a nke before and am tking a referral to lasalle next week. any advice from any jdubz?
...all for the ones at home

Offline sparky601

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #12 on: Jan 26, 2010, 08:09 »
I am a construction wireman construction electrician (IBEW local 601) . I am wanting any input from fellow journeyman wireman (electricians) on any aspect of working a nuke outage. I apologize for the abbreviations and posting this here when it clearly should be posted under a different topic.
...all for the ones at home

Offline Rad Bimmer

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #13 on: Jan 28, 2010, 02:07 »
I am one of the hardest workers in the industry. I give a million percent of myself at work, I am on time, never take a day off, and I only got confirmed for one job in the spring. Hopefully I can sneak in one more job during the spring. In some plants if you aint friends or family of the site manager, good luck getting in LOL. Just my 2 cents. Good luck in your job search
« Last Edit: Jan 28, 2010, 02:10 by Rad Bimmer »

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #14 on: Jan 28, 2010, 04:32 »
I am one of the hardest workers in the industry. I give a million percent of myself at work, I am on time, never take a day off, and I only got confirmed for one job in the spring. Hopefully I can sneak in one more job during the spring. In some plants if you aint friends or family of the site manager, good luck getting in LOL. Just my 2 cents. Good luck in your job search

They are using the "economy" as the excuse to cut back and double up on your work.  You can't live on one outage a season, eventually you leave it if continues.   It seems they use less and less juniors, yet they expect seniors to be available and there has been no let up on their demand.   Can't get a senior unless you are first a junior for many years.   The current older seniors are falling all the time out of the pool.   It will catch up with them, their short sightedness, someday.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #15 on: Jan 28, 2010, 08:47 »
They are using the "economy" as the excuse to cut back and double up on your work. 

Ahh...the conspiracy of "they"

Maybe this is the outage of 2010?  :P


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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #16 on: Jan 29, 2010, 02:23 »
Very GOOD ANALOGY.   The plant manager is the one calling "Ramming Speed."   The guy with the whip is your site coordinator, the rowers are a collection of deconners and and only a few juniors, and the seniors were absent out taking surveys on the oars.   Can reach a senior unless your a junior first.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #17 on: Jan 29, 2010, 08:06 »
What I want to know is why they weren't all knocked out cold when the guy said "Rest" and everybody just let go of their oars? Those things would have come straight back and clocked them all right in the face if that was really a boat and they had been moving as fast as they should have been.
« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2010, 08:07 by RDTroja »
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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #18 on: Jan 30, 2010, 07:11 »
Now I am starting to get ticked off and wish to know the proper way to vent my anger: revenge by shifting recruiters or simply not be loyal to any and split my services as a matter of course.   My daughters, who are not new to the business, have done well and one is close to being a senior find themselves only getting one outage in the Spring.   I feel the recruiters are not doing enough.  I, as their father, have sat on the sidelines hoping Bartlett would do the right thing by them.   During my days of traveling before I became a house tech always found work and contacted anyone/everyone when I found myself getting short-changed.   Up until now Bartlett has always found them at least 2 outages a season as juniors.  When I traveled with them as a senior we came as a package, that is, I would go when then had work for them too.  Using myself as a wedge, it is amazing how they alway found work for them.   I am thinking of helping them get some places anywhere which, unfortunately, may lead them away from Bartlett if Bartlett can't come through with the jobs.   They should know their longer term loyal people cannot live on one outage a season.  That is a formula for a large business to become a small one.  Anyone else who have been in the business many years getting the run around from Bartlett this season?  Is it just us and do what we have to do to get enough work to survive?  Is Bartlett losing their edge?

Offline Old HP

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #19 on: Jan 30, 2010, 11:41 »
It can be frustrating. I would point out to you that it is the scheduling of the outages that is creating most of the problem.Bartlett and Atlantic would love to have a longer outage season, they realize more people are walking away from the business because it is getting harder for the Techs to get more than 15 to 20 weeks work each year.  There are not a lot of jobs that line up to be able to get back to back outages. Then you should also recognize that there are a lot more interns and new graduates in the loop now so the few plants that do take juniors have a better selection for those limited positions.

Good luck and I hope things work out.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #20 on: Jan 31, 2010, 06:14 »
So we are to the point the firms such as Atlantic and Bartlett are unable to provide work for the experienced traveling techs at outages, and getting 2 outages devolves into a game of "musical chairs" and sometimes when the music stops you find yourself on the sidelines even though by work performance you should still be working?   When an industry cannot provide work for its people it slowly dies, like the auto industry and manufacturing did in previous decades.  It also sounds like the power plants themselves are not aligning themselves to allow back to back outages, indicating they do not care or business models are not considering their workers interests.   

I have been watching nukeworker postings for the last year and noticed there have been almost non-stop posting for seniors every week.   In spite of this being a severe recession, the need has increased.   You cannot make up for the loss of seniors from the system due to age and health if you do not train replacements.   There are many internships at plants but a lot of those interns will never finish nor stay in the industry during non-recessionary times.

I predict a time will come in the not to distant future where the plants will not be able to fill their requirement for 3.1 seniors and they will have nobody but themselves to blame.   You can see it coming like a waterfall ahead on a river.   In slow motion you watch as the large boat suddenly realizes, when it is too late, they are headed for a waterfall.   Maybe industry will respond by trying to make some 3.1 jobs filled by the unqualified.   It does not take more then one more 3 mile island to sink this industry, then the demand for 3.1 will be higher to due all the plant decommissioning.

I guess my advice is to keep options open in other lines of work.  One outage a season is not enough to keep a trained steady workforce in any field.   People will adapt to the industry and current market conditions.   I only am looking at the big picture from an old-timer's perspective and wish something more could be done to save the industry.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #21 on: Jan 31, 2010, 11:56 »
Past, present, and future tech shortages has been bantered about in many threads.  It still boils down to simple economics; supply and demand.  When or if the demand for RP services rises sufficiently, the compensation package will rise to the point where ANSI 3.1 techs who have not covered a job for eight years will be enticed to come out of hiding.  That is just one solution...there are many others.

If you are referring to 03/79 - you are making an inaccurate and irresponsible analogy.

You must realize that your daughters, or any other Jr techs are not as valuable or in demand when they fly solo.  Placing blame on Bartlett is misguided.

I did not blame just Bartlett.  I included Atlantic and the others, and the plants themselves.   I say they are short sighted when you do not first take care of your long term faithful workers.   You tend to lose them.   They tend to take there skills elsewhere if underemployed long enough.   In referring to 3-79, I am saying you have a better chance of avoiding incidents that can shutdown a plant, a company, or even an industry if you have long term well trained qualified people running it.   If you are a patchwork of people who come in and out, only working an outage or two a year, and a constant turnover with apprentices that do not finish you will never get more 3.1's.   It takes 8 years or so now with 4 outages a year.  3.1's are not just dropping out, they are deceased in greater numbers all the time from age and not being replaced.  Eventually you will reach that tipping point where industry will try to do some of the same work with less qualified or non-qualified people.   When one of these non-qualified causes enough incidents not due to incompetence, but lack of training, you can shut a place down.   I have heard the arguments that road techs do not do sensitive enough work to be in a position to cause an incident.   If that is truly the case, why hire them to sit at a bench.   They are there to supplement the outage work and there are high risk jobs that the house tech can't cover it all.   Look at Davis -Bessie, nearly having a failure of the reactor head.   You do not think had it failed that plant would be history?   How much maintenance is being ignored now in these fast outages?   Look at Limerick, it was so dirty in some area I had to take a smear on a cement floor with 1/2 of dirt on it.  It was in its condensate bay and was contaminated.   They ignore things to save money.   This will catch up with the industry someday, the cheapest shortest outage is not always the best.   What stake do I have in this?   We all will pay higher bills for power if Nuclear is impacted.  I am saying a lot of short changing of the workers now reflects an attitude that, in essence, we are not needed.  I am saying our demand is down as plants and not doing the necessary work to keep them viable in the long run.

You may then say, if you don't like it, leave.  I did, I am just trying to save my daughters positions as I try to help the industry at the same time.  When they leave, they take with them thousands of dollars of training they will have to redo with someone else, and others and the turnover increases due to people leaving.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #22 on: Jan 31, 2010, 06:38 »
"and there are high risk jobs that the house tech can't cover it all."



please, spare me.


asw

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #23 on: Jan 31, 2010, 07:59 »
"and there are high risk jobs that the house tech can't cover it all."



please, spare me.


asw

I meet a detractor with a lower karma.  Consider yourself spared.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #24 on: Jan 31, 2010, 08:47 »
Koop225,

How is the job search going?

Tim

He emailed me and is having a hard time. 

 So I put out the offer to help, if anyone who has worked outages is having trouble finding one this spring and are assured they have not pissed someone off or other malfeasance, email me and I will form a list of resources of what I have done in the past, and maybe pass on ideas and as a group let the right people know you are out there classified by your name, job title sought, years in business or number of outages, and see I can be of any assistance.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #25 on: Feb 01, 2010, 09:49 »
What I want to know is why they weren't all knocked out cold when the guy said "Rest" and everybody just let go of their oars? Those things would have come straight back and clocked them all right in the face if that was really a boat and they had been moving as fast as they should have been.
oh four criing aught lowd!  enny buddy watt nos any ting bout or usage wood reelize dat dese guyz wuzzant on know stinking boat!  itz plane as dey dat day where onna vessel witch hadda deck to ship there oars.  ;)
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #26 on: Feb 01, 2010, 10:03 »
What I want to know is why they weren't all knocked out cold when the guy said "Rest" and everybody just let go of their oars? Those things would have come straight back and clocked them all right in the face if that was really a boat and they had been moving as fast as they should have been.

I guess it just goes to show, when you have a large gaggle of hot,sweaty techs in one place working tired, they don't all have their oars in the water!!  :P

Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #27 on: Feb 02, 2010, 03:12 »
"and there are high risk jobs that the house tech can't cover it all."



please, spare me.


asw
LOL..,. but you learned it on the road buddy....from  MARY...oh ASA, when are we doing the TIP Run?
BK
« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2010, 06:51 by btkeele »

Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #28 on: Feb 02, 2010, 03:19 »
Back on topic...for some reason a lot of people think the contract company determines
the number of tech's (Jr's in this case) and when outages fall.... It has been my experience
that even if a plant cannot fill with Sr's, they are hesitant to bring in Jr's to fill those slots..
a lot of it has to do with money involved for 100% staffing... blame the utilities bean counters for this,
the utility HP staff usually think like us, i.e.  it is better to have a jr than nothing, as they can do
a lot of the work.... but, as we know,  $$$ talks...
My advice to any new Jr is to take any and all work associated with HP, not just commercial...
look at DOE, do decon or anything dealing with rad material... a lot of this time will add up...
also look at going to school for a year, it will help with getting time to be 3.1... don't limit yourself
to just outages.
« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2010, 03:21 by btkeele »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #29 on: Feb 02, 2010, 04:36 »
...getting time to be 3.1...
usta take a whole lot longer to git a 3.1 rating when da criteria was 36 months of operating commercial nuclear power plant time.  18.1 tex where everywere, 3.1 had da big money.
quando omni flunkus moritati

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Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #30 on: Feb 02, 2010, 06:57 »
Slogo..very true...each plant's procedures vary (and their interpretation as well),
but, some plants will give credit (with limits) for decon time, Frisker monitor, decomissioning,
DOE, etc...it never hurts to diversify....

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #31 on: Feb 02, 2010, 11:18 »
It seems a lot of the companies have partnered with some community colleges and are obligated to bring in interns for their outages. So, if a plant normally requests 10 junior's, 6 to 8 of those slots are being filled with the interns. This doesn't bode well for the junior trying to break in via the decon to junior route. The interns are also the ones that will start filling house tech slots as they come open. The past few years have seen long term house people retiring and being replaced by the same age road tech. As the interns flood the market, they will become the new house tech. The utilities have been looking at the issue of the traveling tech for quite some time. It appears that they have found a way to replace their aging staffs.
When the DOE money stops flowing, there will be a glut of techs on the market for the relatively few slots open come outage time. I believe that will force techs into a core group somewhere in order to get work. I think the only thing that will change this scenario is to start building new plants, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. We are probably 10-15 years away from having new plants go online. As long as the anti-nukes are louder than the pro-nukes, this industry doesn't look good for the future. Just my 50 cents.

Keith

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #32 on: Feb 02, 2010, 12:59 »
It seems a lot of the companies have partnered with some community colleges and are obligated to bring in interns for their outages. So, if a plant normally requests 10 junior's, 6 to 8 of those slots are being filled with the interns. This doesn't bode well for the junior trying to break in via the decon to junior route. The interns are also the ones that will start filling house tech slots as they come open. The past few years have seen long term house people retiring and being replaced by the same age road tech. As the interns flood the market, they will become the new house tech. The utilities have been looking at the issue of the traveling tech for quite some time. It appears that they have found a way to replace their aging staffs.

Keith

One problem with this theory is people are not lackeys who are obliged to stay in the field once they are trained, or even finish.   The relative low pay of starting house techs with a long training path can have career causalties and better opportunities grab these people.  I have heard there are very few techs who make it from ground zero to senior HP or as a core person.  Educated SHP's have many other higher paying options not necessarily in the nuke field.   IF this is the companies big plan, and no new plants are on the horizon, it will spin alot of wheels but not accomplish their goal of a reliable source of techs.   Compared with the traveling tech who have the wherewithal to get trained, travel many miles, show up for work, are motivated to self-educated, and have a broad experience of many plants that essentially cost the company little as compared with dedicated programs, some bean counter will discover this if the Obama recession continues and it will be the first thing cut.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #33 on: Feb 02, 2010, 08:38 »
Slogo..very true...each plant's procedures vary (and their interpretation as well),

knot to argue (two much) but its not a plant thing, it's da a.n.s.i. definition.  that iz watt got changed from 36 months operating commercial power plant to commercial power plant.  notice the "operating" deletion.  outtages didn't count bee four.  only on-line time.
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #34 on: Feb 03, 2010, 05:47 »
Been a while since I posted, this could be one of Marlins wrestling scenerio.... :D

klsas gave you some very accurate and very usefull information, but it obviously doesn't meet your current mission!

There are currently hundreds of new juniors in what I'll call the Power Pool!  Their advantage is enrollment in one of the formalized training programs offered throught out the country.  Most are supported by some type of sponsorship program.  Some are actually being paid to attend these programs.  If you want to give your off spring an advantage and future in the industry, realize the competition and adapt as necessary.  From a business perspective, which individual do you want to hire?  The one who just completed 40 weeks of observed, verifiable, testable training in theory, physics, instrumentation, systems, chemistry and regulatory indoctrination, or the one who has 2000 hours at outages doing whatever?

This information wont help the current situation, but hopefully it will prevent a repeat in the future!

Before you piss all over Bartlett, Jerry Hyatt would be a good choice for information on these programs.

Respectfully, RG..... ;)

Did I just put a plug in for Bartlett..... :o



« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2010, 05:48 by RAD-GHOST »

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #35 on: Feb 03, 2010, 07:26 »
Been a while since I posted, this could be one of Marlins wrestling scenerio.... :D

klsas gave you some very accurate and very usefull information, but it obviously doesn't meet your current mission!

There are currently hundreds of new juniors in what I'll call the Power Pool!  Their advantage is enrollment in one of the formalized training programs offered throught out the country.  Most are supported by some type of sponsorship program.  Some are actually being paid to attend these programs.  If you want to give your off spring an advantage and future in the industry, realize the competition and adapt as necessary.  From a business perspective, which individual do you want to hire?  The one who just completed 40 weeks of observed, verifiable, testable training in theory, physics, instrumentation, systems, chemistry and regulatory indoctrination, or the one who has 2000 hours at outages doing whatever?

This information wont help the current situation, but hopefully it will prevent a repeat in the future!

Before you piss all over Bartlett, Jerry Hyatt would be a good choice for information on these programs.

Respectfully, RG..... ;)

Did I just put a plug in for Bartlett..... :o



If what your are saying could be true the we would have more reasons to be upset because Bartlett has made no effort to inform their loyal workers of such programs.  It makes no sense for them to ignore my daughter, who is one outage away from being a 1.8 senior to these "programs" of people who are college students who have no reason to stay in the field once the economy improves.   Show me the stats on how many of these people have made it through and are serving as 3.1's.  Who is paying for this 40 weeks of training?   Are they using stimulus money?   How motivated are they to stay in the program if you must pay their way, verses someone who has taken the initiative to train, pass the NUF and the Core on their own dime?  I cannot imagine this program would be so vast  as to be filling the jobs and Bartlett has not informed it loyal workers.   Eric, say it ain't so that you would hold out on your people?

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #36 on: Feb 03, 2010, 10:15 »
I'll try one last effort here to explain. These college kids are not just any college kids. They are specifically training in the Nuclear Power Field. Some pay their own way and some get grants from the utilities and even Pell grants to go to school. When the economy improves, these people will not be jumping to other things as they are training specificallly for nuclear. The community college programs are very similar to the Navy training program without all the military bs. Get your book knowledge, learn how outages work with hands on and then graduate to a house position. Not all of them will become house right away, but the training will stay with them and as with all fields, some will work at Mickey D's.
Bartlett has not hidden this fact from any one. They have advertised for some programs that they have offered. Bartlett has pushed education for a long time for newer juniors. They are not recruiter's for the schools, so I don't see where it would benefit them to advertise for the schools. Bartlett's only function is to get the order from the utilities and fill it the best they can. If Batlett has 100 juniors in their pool and the utilities only request 50 juniors, someone isn't going to be happy. I'm not saying Bartlett is perfect, but they are a business just like DZA. By the way, it works the same for seniors. Bartlett will only hire as many as they have request's for. Wait until we have a short season and you will see that. (fall 2010).
I don't know if this helps, but it is all I'll say.

Keith

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #37 on: Feb 03, 2010, 01:40 »
I'll try one last effort here to explain. These college kids are not just any college kids. They are specifically training in the Nuclear Power Field. Some pay their own way and some get grants from the utilities and even Pell grants to go to school. When the economy improves, these people will not be jumping to other things as they are training specifically for nuclear. The community college programs are very similar to the Navy training program without all the military BS. Get your book knowledge, learn how outages work with hands on and then graduate to a house position. Not all of them will become house right away, but the training will stay with them and as with all fields, some will work at Mickey D's.

I have a degree in computer science, and do not work in computers.   I have a 4 year degree as an elementary education, and I do not teach.  Worked for a time, then left.   I have had 2 years of law school, I became a paralegal for a time, then left the field.  I spent 6 years in the Navy as a Nuclear Machinst Mate.   I will admit my most valuable training was in the Navy, compared with all the "Book" learning I subsequently got.   The military may have BS in it, but those volunteers keep our country safe and the best get in the Navy and I would trust them with my fate over someone with just a 2 year college degree.  There is nothing that will keep someone in the Nuclear Field just because they got a technical degree, and it is usually 2 years.   If they obtain a 4 year degree in a science field, they waste there time as just an RP.  What I am saying is it is a mistake to discard the travelers so easily when their experience enriches our industry.

Bartlett has not hidden this fact from any one. They have advertised for some programs that they have offered. Bartlett has pushed education for a long time for newer juniors. They are not recruiter's for the schools, so I don't see where it would benefit them to advertise for the schools. Bartlett's only function is to get the order from the utilities and fill it the best they can. If Bartlett has 100 juniors in their pool and the utilities only request 50 juniors, someone isn't going to be happy. I'm not saying Bartlett is perfect, but they are a business just like DZA. By the way, it works the same for seniors. Bartlett will only hire as many as they have requests for. Wait until we have a short season and you will see that. (fall 2010).
I don't know if this helps, but it is all I'll say.

Keith

No, Bartlett or Atlantic or whomever do not have a duty to inform juniors they are about to be screwed out of jobs to be replaced by the interns.  They just have common sense that when you burn the bridges to these multi-talented travelers who are obviously self motivated the will go elsewhere maybe never to return.   They have a duty to their own survival to treat those who have been faithful to them or at tell them why the jobs are drying up.   Informing them through a "musical chairs" method and say, "Sorry no jobs this Spring, try again next Fall," is shortsighted and will only discourage the worker into other fields.   You won't get seniors from the air.   If they have such a nice supply, why do they still advertise for them nearly every day on Nukeworker?

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #38 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:54 »
Those Bastards!

I'm finding it hard to believe that they didn't shut down all business until they personally contact you about the various technical schools available to the Health Physics trade!  Your reply to my posting, particuliarly the part that stated, "If what I'm saying is true", seems to be an obvious ploy to continue your Biotching!  Not that I would be the one to disect and individuals replies, but you are the only member who stated the actual length of these technical training programs, 2 years!  Obviously prior knowledge of these programs wouldn't fit your current Biotching venue.     

Seems that you are under the opinion that if someone wishes to pursues a career in Health Physics, in any way other then your experienced based model, isn't going to stay, isn't worth a damn because their book smart and should play second fiddel to your agenda!  Obviously being bias towards your children can be commended, but don't start bashing other individual and their path to opportunities because your trying to amplify your opinion!

By the way, pissing all over the various companies, recruiters and individual who offer replies and advice to your posting is guarenteed to provide one sure thing......

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #39 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:42 »
So what we're really talking about here is that you have a commitment problem,...... :P : :P :P ;)

I have continuously worked since age 14, including 6 years running a small business and paying taxes, raising a family and caring for a disabled child for over 25 years.   To advance in life, sometimes you take a leap of faith and try to do something new, and yes, fail at times for the higher goal.   Abraham Lincoln failed 6 times in his life, failing in professions and losing campaigns until he became our 16 president.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

Teddy Roosevelt

I stand in good company with my "commitment" problems.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #40 on: Feb 04, 2010, 07:12 »
Those Bastards!

I'm finding it hard to believe that they didn't shut down all business until they personally contact you about the various technical schools available to the Health Physics trade!  Your reply to my posting, particularly the part that stated, "If what I'm saying is true", seems to be an obvious ploy to continue your Biotching!  Not that I would be the one to dissect and individuals replies, but you are the only member who stated the actual length of these technical training programs, 2 years!  Obviously prior knowledge of these programs wouldn't fit your current Biotching venue.     

Seems that you are under the opinion that if someone wishes to pursues a career in Health Physics, in any way other then your experienced based model, isn't going to stay, isn't worth a damn because their book smart and should play second fiddle to your agenda!  Obviously being bias towards your children can be commended, but don't start bashing other individual and their path to opportunities because your trying to amplify your opinion!

By the way, pissing all over the various companies, recruiters and individual who offer replies and advice to your posting is guaranteed to provide one sure thing......


Please refer to my above quote from Teddy Roosevelt.
... so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

Teddy Roosevelt

What you refer to as "bitching" I refer to a problem facing many in our industry and if you had read any of my posts to know I personally am doing fine.   I see a problem and rather then cower under a rock from fear that, "By the way, pissing all over the various companies, recruiters and individual who offer replies and advice to your posting is guaranteed to provide one sure thing......" I am letting people know we are on to them and fighting back.   

Nukeworkers need to stick together and when we are not getting work as a group, when we have done a good job, we must speak up and ask, 'WHY?"  If loyal travelers are being displaced without an opportunity to compete . . . that is wrong.   My original post was in response to a good worker finding himself sitting out this spring.  My 2 daughters, ditto.   I don't see how your personal attacks have helped the poor unemployed faithful workers.  I have since talked with others at Bartlett and found much of what I have said to be true.   There are less jobs this Spring for juniors and for no good reason short of the companies making fewer requests.   Why are the requests fewer must be asked and good workers deserve an answer.  (By the way, spelling checker on nukeworker is a good thing.  When I quoted you I fixed all of your spelling errors so you may not look so bad to the "recruiters, companies and individuals"  you are the spokesman for.)

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #41 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:50 »
Like Forrest Gump would say, "That is all I have to say about that." :  :-X

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #42 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:54 »
The way they are proceeding is to confront the recruiters to do their job and say where the positions going.  Are we in a "let's not use juniors" phase, or is it truly from junior colleges.  If it is the former, then to get the word out to seniors to use their influence to double up with juniors as a package to get more junior brought it.   It has worked before.   I talk with the recruiters and convey our dismay which I hope they convey to the employers that many seniors travel with juniors and that is where they get their replacements for little cost.  Junior college programs, if subsidized by the industry cost tons of money and like all bean counters, the companies expect results.  Juniors who train and pass the NUF on their own cost them nothing once they are trained on the sites.   Juniors who travel with seniors have people they can get advice from.   It is a system that has worked for thousands of years, the senior experienced person training the junior.

If it is truly someone has a hairbrained scheme to favor college locals and subsidize them and ignore the junior pool, there are not enough house positions to handle the flood of people applying for utilities and when they do not either get the job or are cut the free market will fix that problem.   In spite of how great you may feel the junior college programs are, from a senior perspective, the subject matter is so slim most of the ex-navy could challege every test in a college program and pass, not saying much for the college.   If you have been to college, you know in the junior levels it is little more intense then high school.   Hardly something you wish to depend on if you are trying to rebuild and industry.

What is my strategy for them?   First, they have been very loyal to Bartlett and taken the trash positions where nobody else wanted on short notice.   They have a track record of dependability.   We will naturally use that to get at least some guilt going to insure they are doing their best.   Next, as a senior of many years, I have been helping them understand their job and all the small parts of it.   If Bartlett will not get them jobs, we expand to other recruiters to get their name out.   My oldest daughter is nearly a senior, maybe she will go for a long term position.   

If there are no opportunities, we go into something else but not without a fight.   We have time on our side and very patient.   If the college thing is unproductive, I will personally get involved if I have the evidence to let the companies know, I know how to research.   They are not monolithic beings stuck on their own destruction.  If other word, what will we do?   We will do what is necessary to help them, and if we help a whole lot of other juniors along the way, all the better.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #43 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:58 »
I just couldn't hold it for another minute.  I am really sick of people feeling entitled to a job - any job.  For years, there has been this divide between those who have been educated in this field (mostly military folks) and those who have actual practical experience (mostly former deconners).  I have tried my best over the years to learn as much from the former deconners as I could.  On the other hand, only a few of those folks ever bothered to get any technical training.  Those who did, are the best techs ever, but the vast majority of RP techs who did not come out of the Navy or some other formal training program are the ones who CONSTANTLY complain about the requirements that they pass the NEU/NUF exam.
Not everyone who spent their workdays watching RP's work are automatically qualified to replace them.  Only the ones who ask a lot of questions and crack a book now and then become good techs.  The rest are no more than a rack to hang a meter on.  Usually, as soon as a deconner gets to be really good as a deconner, he becomes really useless as an RP instead.  One day, he's making a difference, the next day he can't do anything on his own.

So now, finally after all these years, someone is merging the two flowpaths.  Education and practical experience will be combined to make techs who are fully trained by education and experience to do this work.  The prayer has been answered!  Are you going to hear any bitching from the techs out there who came from the Navy or college?  Nope.  You're going to hear a lot of it from those who just lost their shortcut to a higher-paying job.  Listen to yourself.  What you are saying is "it's not fair that we have to compete with people who are more qualified than we are."

I'm going to say this for the hundredth time:  RP Tech is not and should not be the career progression from deconner.  If you are a good deconner, you ought to get paid well enough for it that you don't go looking to leave the job to become a Jr. RP.  Unfortunately, very few these days even get to the point of being a good deconner.  They're just putting in the time until they can get a Jr. Tech. spot somewhere.  Then, they put in the time to be a Sr. Tech.  Then, they stop trying altogether.
If you want to become an RP, it should take more than just having worked for Bartlett as a deconner until they get tired of hearing you ask for a JR. RP job.  Yes, loyalty is a great thing.  But is is not the same as being qualified.  About half of the current bunch of techs need to be plenty scared, because many of you got there the easy way and are not as good as you think you are.  If some kid out of technical school gets your job, you really have nobody to blame but yourself.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline stormgoalie

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #44 on: Feb 04, 2010, 11:09 »
THAT's gonna leave a mark,...... :P :P

You are correct there, but I do believe that the response will be the equivalent of "It's just a flesh wound." as the message hits the shielding of a highly collimated opinion :D
WARNING: Translation of author's random thoughts may have resulted in the unintended introduction of grammatical errors, typos, technical inaccuracies, lies, propaganda, rhetoric, or blasphemy.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #45 on: Feb 04, 2010, 11:16 »
Sorry man.  I hate doing this, because I know a lot of really great techs who came from the decon side.  I have to say what I think.  The current crop is NO WAY of the same caliber tech as those who went before them.  This sense of entitlement is crap.  The idea that Junior techs are getting trained on the job is crap.  If you can FIND one, he's probably mopping a floor, pulling laundry and trash, or stuck washing power visors somewhere.
We've been crying that nobody is doing anything to bring along the next generation of techs.  Now, somebody is doing it right, and the cry goes up "UNFAIR!"

I'd love to see the Sr. Techs try that BS about "pairing" with a Junior this fall.  I can hear it now.  " I don't go without my Jr. tech. (insert relationship here; son, girlfriend, ... etc.)"  Reply: "Then I guess you don't go.  I have sixty other seniors competing for 30 slots without trying to smuggle in a Junior."
That would certainly not be the first time it happens.  I'd doubt that any senior tech will sit out a whole season just because there are no junior spots for his nephew.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #46 on: Feb 04, 2010, 11:21 »
"It makes no sense for them to ignore my daughter, who is one outage away from being a 1.8 senior"



She has A LONG WAY to go to being a senior if she is only one outage away from being an 1.8   :)
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Offline spongerob27

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #47 on: Feb 04, 2010, 01:44 »
If anyone seems to feel like they should be canonized its BeerCourt. All day long we read your posts of your supremicy. Yuck!! You flip-flop and try to say some feel good things but the point is you feel superior to the people who work there way up. I am one of them. You bash Content1 for his feelings of his way is right. But you feel the same way but a different path. The path does not matter. The end result is the quality of the Tech. thats what matters. I have worked with many who have been in the industry since "the good old days", and I would not let them cover trash and laundry. And they have the same opinion as you. "The holy than thou attitude."

My advice Content1 tell those kids to keep there nose to grindstone. Take whatever they can get and be thankful. The last thing they want is to be ungrateful for the opportunities they are given when they are given. We all can complain about jobs at one time or another. But none of these outages last forever but your reputation will.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #48 on: Feb 04, 2010, 02:10 »
If anyone seems to feel like they should be canonized its BeerCourt. All day long we read your posts of your supremicy. Yuck!! You flip-flop and try to say some feel good things but the point is you feel superior to the people who work there way up. I am one of them. You bash Content1 for his feelings of his way is right. But you feel the same way but a different path. The path does not matter. The end result is the quality of the Tech. thats what matters. I have worked with many who have been in the industry since "the good old days", and I would not let them cover trash and laundry. And they have the same opinion as you. "The holy than thou attitude."

My advice Content1 tell those kids to keep there nose to grindstone. Take whatever they can get and be thankful. The last thing they want is to be ungrateful for the opportunities they are given when they are given. We all can complain about jobs at one time or another. But none of these outages last forever but your reputation will.

"When you throw a rock in the pig pen it's the one you hit that squeals"

Do us a favor, try reading for comprehension, use the spell check, and contribute in a positive manner if possible. As hard a pill as it is to swallow Beercourt is right. No matter were a tech comes from the ones who have a combination of experience and training (even if self taught) are the ones who will and should succeed.
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2010, 02:12 by Marlin »

Offline spongerob27

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #49 on: Feb 04, 2010, 02:19 »
"When you throw a rock in the pig pen it's the one you hit that squeals"

Do us a favor, try reading for comprehension, use the spell check, and contribute in a positive manner if possible. As hard a pill as it is to swallow Beercourt is right. No matter were a tech comes from the ones who have a combination of experience and training (even if self taught) are the ones who will and should succeed.

Sounds like squealing!

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #50 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:42 »
I just couldn't hold it for another minute.  I am really sick of people feeling entitled to a job - any job.  For years, there has been this divide between those who have been educated in this field (mostly military folks) and those who have actual practical experience (mostly former deconners).  I have tried my best over the years to learn as much from the former deconners as I could.  On the other hand, only a few of those folks ever bothered to get any technical training.  Those who did, are the best techs ever, but the vast majority of RP techs who did not come out of the Navy or some other formal training program are the ones who CONSTANTLY complain about the requirements that they pass the NEU/NUF exam.
Not everyone who spent their workdays watching RP's work are automatically qualified to replace them.  Only the ones who ask a lot of questions and crack a book now and then become good techs.  The rest are no more than a rack to hang a meter on.  Usually, as soon as a deconner gets to be really good as a deconner, he becomes really useless as an RP instead.  One day, he's making a difference, the next day he can't do anything on his own.

I never said she was entitled to a job, only that she is qualified and has the ability to learn whatever is needed to do the job.  Just because she spent time as a deconner should only help her ability to be a Good RP.   Your prejudice against deconners does not account for people on a career path using Decon as a stepping stone to RP.  Deconners out there, are all of you unqualified to do anything but decon?
I have helped guide her career and only on the advice of recruiters she went to decon first.  Were they wrong?   And by the way, she took and passed he NUF the first time with no problems.


So now, finally after all these years, someone is merging the two flowpaths.  Education and practical experience will be combined to make techs who are fully trained by education and experience to do this work.  The prayer has been answered!  Are you going to hear any bitching from the techs out there who came from the Navy or college?  Nope.  You're going to hear a lot of it from those who just lost their shortcut to a higher-paying job.  Listen to yourself.  What you are saying is "it's not fair that we have to compete with people who are more qualified than we are."

I don't know who was doing the praying but it was probably to a false god.  I hardly call starting from the bottom and working your way up a shortcut.   I would say taking someone off the street who just graduated high school barely literate as so many are and jumping into a junior job never deconning a wrench is the short-cutter.  When I went to college the first 2 years you mainly had to show up to pass, hardly the cream of the crop an industry needs.  It was not until my senior year in college I had to earn every bit of my way.   Same for law school.  I say a person who works their way up is far more qualified then a newbie from college.

I'm going to say this for the hundredth time:  RP Tech is not and should not be the career progression from deconner.  If you are a good deconner, you ought to get paid well enough for it that you don't go looking to leave the job to become a Jr. RP.  Unfortunately, very few these days even get to the point of being a good deconner.  They're just putting in the time until they can get a Jr. Tech. spot somewhere.  Then, they put in the time to be a Sr. Tech.  Then, they stop trying altogether.
If you want to become an RP, it should take more than just having worked for Bartlett as a deconner until they get tired of hearing you ask for a JR. RP job.  Yes, loyalty is a great thing.  But is is not the same as being qualified.  About half of the current bunch of techs need to be plenty scared, because many of you got there the easy way and are not as good as you think you are.  If some kid out of technical school gets your job, you really have nobody to blame but yourself.

I do think you exaggerate about the 100th time, by saying something that is either wrong or a half-truth does not improve with reptition.  I would put my daughter again your newbie 2 year college grad if such a competion existed and she'd wipe the floor with him, knowledge for knowledge. . .You set it up, name the time and place, and see we will be ready.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #51 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:47 »
"It makes no sense for them to ignore my daughter, who is one outage away from being a 1.8 senior"



She has A LONG WAY to go to being a senior if she is only one outage away from being an 1.8   :)

Some plants accept senior at the 1.8 level, ans she is close to that level.  The plan is to work as a 1.8 until you reach 3.1.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #52 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:49 »
I'm still not quite following..in your above statement:

Who are "we"; who are "them" and how are the "we" "fighting back"?

Nukeworkers..more specifically, RP techs, are not going to stick together (remember the late 80's); even recently there has been some discussion on the operation of a "union-like" RP Staffing company; I'll look for the discussion and post a link as a late edit if I locate it.

Armed with the knowledge that Jr techs appear to be coming from community college programs, how will you advise your daughters to proceed?

"We" are those who are self-taught or working their way up to be a senior from a deconner background and those who support their efforts.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #53 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:54 »
"When you throw a rock in the pig pen it's the one you hit that squeals"

Do us a favor, try reading for comprehension, use the spell check, and contribute in a positive manner if possible. As hard a pill as it is to swallow Beercourt is right. No matter were a tech comes from the ones who have a combination of experience and training (even if self taught) are the ones who will and should succeed.

Making your argument ad hominen attack does not detract from the point he was making.  Beercourt was acting like a king and he only pointed it out, gave an opinion.  People resort to fallacies of logic when the cannot fight by going through the from door of an argument.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #54 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:07 »
Well I guess nobody told millstone, and the duke plants and my recruiters like Joey, who calculated how close she is to that kind of senior.   I will check with them.  Based on what you are saying there are no exceptions to the 3.1 senior.  Yes, that is news to me.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #55 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:22 »
Making your argument ad hominen attack does not detract from the point he was making.  Beercourt was acting like a king and he only pointed it out, gave an opinion.  People resort to fallacies of logic when the cannot fight by going through the from front door of an argument.

   Beercourt was responding from the position of a very experienced professional in a responsible position. He was pointing out the realities of the business not the wishful thinking of how someone thinks it should be. That you think the "Business" owes anyone anything is wishful thinking. If you are a contractor going to any facility it is the expectation that you are providing a preexisting service and qualification. If you want training as part of your job hire into a house position.
  
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2010, 06:24 by Marlin »

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #56 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:25 »

You're missing the emoticons again,....

There are no 1.8 seniors,....

There are 18.1 seniors under an older standard,....

I thought you had 20 years in this RP business?!?!?!?!,... ;)

Heard back from Joey, and I quote:

At 03:12 PM 2/4/2010, you wrote:
Not true - we have several sites that still accept 18.1 SHP's (24 Months
of HP Time)
"A staffing and solutions company"

Joey Melanson

Sr. Lead Recruiter

I hope this puts this matter to rest.

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #57 on: Feb 04, 2010, 07:44 »
Content 1
There is a job posting for junior's >9 mont's at ANO. Don't say there isn't work for your daughter or is it the fact that you didn't get a package deal where you are going? If it the latter is the case, you aren't going to find much sympathy for your position on this board or any other board. Let us know, is your animosity toward Bartlett and DZA because of a package deal gone bad?
With 7 or 8 less outages this fall, I wouldn't push too hard for package deals, or you may not get work yourself.

Keith

Asa1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #58 on: Feb 04, 2010, 07:49 »
that's funny keith. definitely not a closer.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #59 on: Feb 04, 2010, 08:09 »
If Joey gives you a confirmation letter for employment as an ANSI 1.8 Senior Technician on Bartlett letterhead,...I'll give you 50 bucks,....

It would be worth every penny to see Jerry Hiatt's face when he learns his company is confirming 1.8 Senior Technicians at plant XYZ,...

You will give up 50 bucks so easily.   Before I take your money, call Joey yourself.  My posting was from his actual email to me, that is why the time and date was showing.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #60 on: Feb 04, 2010, 08:23 »
Content 1
There is a job posting for junior's >9 mont's at ANO. Don't say there isn't work for your daughter or is it the fact that you didn't get a package deal where you are going? If it the latter is the case, you aren't going to find much sympathy for your position on this board or any other board. Let us know, is your animosity toward Bartlett and DZA because of a package deal gone bad?
With 7 or 8 less outages this fall, I wouldn't push too hard for package deals, or you may not get work yourself.

Keith

I am one step ahead of you, we are going to submit their resume's tonight.  It is possible to get that 2nd outage.  I did talk to DZ recruiter and she said though there is less demand this season, it is not ending as I get the impression from Beercourt.  I have no animosity toward any company, I just want my daughters treated fairly like I want for ALL juniors vs. the impression the decon path junior was being phased out.   I am not angry, just determined and an advocate.   I have been the thorn in many sides of things I feel passionate about and we do not give up easily.  I am suggesting all decon path juniors to never give up either. 

Cathy

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #61 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:16 »
I am glad to see a plant taking juniors! We are taking 8 this spring at Comanche Peak. No PCM watches here, I had 2 with me on the refuel floor last outage, they definitely got their "cavity time"  :)

Offline Incline

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #62 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:25 »
Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response. For Content1 to compare a 2 year school to a high school is as ignorant as it is inflammatory. I took Reactor Physics in my 2 year program( not exactly high school stuff). And no i was not in the Navy. When i graduated in the early 90's i hit the road and it was hard to find a junior job because most of the junior jobs were filled with House Tech/Senior Tech wives or relatives. So i took a jr. decon spot and worked my up from there, by asking alot of questions a trying to learn as much as i could from both the Sr. deconners and RP's.
 I found that it was relatively easy to stay working when you get in a system( I was in Duke) and work your butt off to stay till your jr time is out of the way. I may not have made as much money as i could have but i got plenty of experience and that all important jr. time.
 And just so you know...when i worked for Bartlett a few years ago Mike Ballard came to our site and told us of scholarships that Bartlett was giving for people wanting to get their degree from a particular school in the mid-west. I am now a House Tech and our site is giving fullride scholarships to the local community colleges offering degrees in Nuclear Technology. The students have to maintain a certain GPA, but that still does not mean they will get a house job.  That will take initiative and alot of hard work during internships.

 Oh and also i know of at least two RPM's and quite a few Supervisors that have 2 year degrees and came up much the same way I did. Tell your kids to go to valve tech school with Atlantic if you want them to keep working. It has alot less regulatory compliance issues for the money and other types of plants have valves too.

 P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #63 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:49 »
Do your kids a favor...teach them how to dial the phone themselves.  Do you plan on covering their first system breach for them too?

If the truth be know they were kind of raised in the business and on the job, they often remind me of the procedures and codes and they follow them because they believe in them, verses I do so to keep out of trouble.   I help them do things that I am good at, on the job, they are on their own and are better socially adjusted then myself.   They make friends wherever they go and often get recommendation from the RP manager to please come back.   That is why I was so surprised when  I found the trouble all juniors are having this season.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #64 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:15 »
1) Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response.

 2)P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 
1)  well come to the zoo.

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Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #65 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:23 »
Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response. For Content1 to compare a 2 year school to a high school is as ignorant as it is inflammatory. I took Reactor Physics in my 2 year program( not exactly high school stuff). And no i was not in the Navy. When i graduated in the early 90's i hit the road and it was hard to find a junior job because most of the junior jobs were filled with House Tech/Senior Tech wives or relatives. So i took a jr. decon spot and worked my up from there, by asking alot of questions a trying to learn as much as i could from both the Sr. deconners and RP's.
 I found that it was relatively easy to stay working when you get in a system( I was in Duke) and work your butt off to stay till your jr time is out of the way. I may not have made as much money as i could have but i got plenty of experience and that all important jr. time.
 And just so you know...when i worked for Bartlett a few years ago Mike Ballard came to our site and told us of scholarships that Bartlett was giving for people wanting to get their degree from a particular school in the mid-west. I am now a House Tech and our site is giving fullride scholarships to the local community colleges offering degrees in Nuclear Technology. The students have to maintain a certain GPA, but that still does not mean they will get a house job.  That will take initiative and alot of hard work during internships.

 Oh and also i know of at least two RPM's and quite a few Supervisors that have 2 year degrees and came up much the same way I did. Tell your kids to go to valve tech school with Atlantic if you want them to keep working. It has alot less regulatory compliance issues for the money and other types of plants have valves too.

 P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 
:) :o :P

Why don't you do more than register for free, become a Gold member to keep this site alive, Nukeworker is great to have around and we all should support it.

First, congratulations on doing well in school, working as a junior deconner and now a house tech.   I don't see why you are upset, you are an example of someone self-making their success, I bet you are glad when you were still a deconner someone didn't say to you that you will never make a good RP and that you should drop out of the business go to school first before you could become an RP.  If you got education on top of your hard work, more power to you.  I have great respect for the RPM's who made they way up the ranks though hard work, and I am glad nobody held them back when they did not have a 4 year degree.   This system works.   My complaint was if you read all the posts is someone was saying that if you come from a deconner job you would NEVER make a good RP unless they had a college background.   You have help prove my argument that only in the dictionary does success comes before work.  I hope you stay with nukeworker and give your opinions on how to make it a better industry.

Not to disparage most 2 year college programs, but the Navy does the same all in 6 months and I would trust their knowledge and training over many with a 4 year degree.   I looked at their programs and a college degree represents that you attended enough classes and subjects to get the piece of paper.  It is more of a demonstration of tenacity verses mastery of a subject.   That piece of paper set you above those who do not have it.  When you continue to a 4 year degree they are suppose to also teach you how to independently think too, no time for that in a 2 year degree.   Even when I got my 4 year degree to be a teacher, it was only a gateway to take another year of college to get a teaching credential.   Education never ends.   I am glad we had other methods in the past for self-study, like the way Lincoln studied law and later became our 16th President and probably save our country, was available.   The is room in our world for both, the self-made and the college made, and any kind of hybrid in between.

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #66 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:26 »
You will give up 50 bucks so easily.   Before I take your money, call Joey yourself.  My posting was from his actual email to me, that is why the time and date was showing.

Why are you having such a hard time with this....THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN 1.8 SENIOR HP !!!!!!!!!!    They are 18.1 seniors.  Reread all your replies Dude.......and pay Marssim his $50, because Joey knows there is no such thing.
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2010, 10:28 by Bonds 25 »
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Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #67 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:37 »
TYpo, and I am not as fast as the younger folks catching on and need to be spoon fed sometimes.  In any case, an 18.1 is a good place for a junior to go to on their to a 3.1 senior.  "Oops", as Brittney would say. :D :D :D

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #68 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:45 »
Much better :)   I was an 18.1 for 2 years before I made 3.1, and that is considered extremely fast now days. Quite a few plants do indeed take 18.1's.  Tell your Daughter that if she cant find an 18.1 job, JR jobs also count as time towards 3.1 (not sure if you knew this already)  So as she climbs the 3.1 ladder, JR jobs (even if she has qualified as an 18.1) are better than NO JOB.
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Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #69 on: Feb 05, 2010, 03:47 »
I am glad to see a plant taking juniors! We are taking 8 this spring at Comanche Peak. No PCM watches here, I had 2 with me on the refuel floor last outage, they definitely got their "cavity time"  :)

friggin house slug..... ;)

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #70 on: Feb 05, 2010, 03:51 »
Much better :)   I was an 18.1 for 2 years before I made 3.1, and that is considered extremely fast now days. Quite a few plants do indeed take 18.1's.  Tell your Daughter that if she cant find an 18.1 job, JR jobs also count as time towards 3.1 (not sure if you knew this already)  So as she climbs the 3.1 ladder, JR jobs (even if she has qualified as an 18.1) are better than NO JOB.
YOU made 3.1?  Way to go!  LOL   you get that new B'mer you were lookin at?

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #71 on: Feb 05, 2010, 08:14 »
I'm going to say this for the hundredth time:

Troy, I've told you a million times -- stop exaggerating!
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cubby11

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #72 on: Feb 05, 2010, 09:00 »
I think there are many advantages and disadvantages to go to a tech school.  I may be a little biased because I just recently went through a tech school.  But I have been a JR now for 2 years and yes at first the deconners knew a little more than me in the field such as: where everything is and what to do, but after working a couple of outages there that really isn't the case anymore.  But on the other hand, I know a whole lot more theory than they do.  Don't get me wrong me though, because there are plenty of deconners that know there stuff, but the majority don't even compare.  As far as deconners knowing more theory than techs that have gone through a tech school, I find that hard to believe. 
As far as scholarships went, the NRC paid it.  We had to maintain a 3.0 GPA, and enroll into the nuclear work force within 6 months (I think) after graduation.  I'm not sure if the NRC still offers this, but they did when I attended school.  The classes were ran by a former navy nuke.  Classroom policies were very stringent, ex, tardy to class-3 pts off final grade, late-5 points off final grade, no questions asked.  With all this being said, I personally think going through a tech school is better than being a deconner first.  I also got paid for an internship too !  $10,00 is a lot of money when you're still in school.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #73 on: Feb 05, 2010, 10:57 »
It has been fun but from my perspective I have found out what happened this season from the recruiters and I am satisfied that they are not restricting anyone, and if there are some who restrict non-college trained it is a utility decision that they simply do not post the job in the first place if they intend to use interns.  The recruiters are OK.   It now becomes a matter of extending the search to include anything/everything out there, a level enough playing field for me.   That is all I originally sought to find out.

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #74 on: Feb 05, 2010, 11:07 »
Back to outages for 2010.

This past Sunday, Wyle labs in Huntsville, AL put their ad in the paper looking for mechanical types to work various spring outages. I see that they are not one of Mike's sponsors. Mike, seek them out and try to get them onboard. They advertise at the beginning of every season. HP isn't the only field that needs people.

Keith

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #75 on: Feb 05, 2010, 11:46 »

Not to disparage most 2 year college programs, but the Navy does the same all in 6 months and I would trust their knowledge and training over many with a 4 year degree. 

a peace of paper is good four moor than cuvering wholes in the wall.  it helps open doors.  tru, their are peepul who got up in the whirled with out degrees.  duzzant mean that school ain't kneaded.  it means those peeps where extremely driven, probly "type a" personalitees.  having tracable paper is a good thing.  eye had a similar type of experience.  after eye put in my time atta operating power plant to git my 3.1, only two have a.n.s.i. change da wording on that definition, i needed a weigh to seperate frum the herd of instant 3.1.  aye wuz too old to join da navy, 'n life had me in a position witch wood have made that matrimonial suicide.  sew, eye hadda git some tech training that would be recognizabull two doze peepill who hire.  i found a job witch qualled me at navsea rct article 108.  vary good technical training and it has been recognized everywhere.  butt, it's training that can be traced to a known source.  in da field training, otj, what ever, cannont and isn't taken seriously.  dat iz da reason people doing da hiring look at how long you've bin in da field, where yu've been, 'n yer references so closely.  witch iss all sew why sum sites dew knot automatically consider yew a 18.1 as soon as ya gots yer 24 months in or recognize ya as a 3.1 soon's ya turn 36 months.  training certs 'n degrees git ya there faster 'n better.
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Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #76 on: Feb 05, 2010, 03:58 »
YOU made 3.1?  Way to go!  LOL   you get that new B'mer you were lookin at?
I was able to keep myself from buying the BMW.......till October.  The thing is a massive beast, and can actually scare the hell out of me.  If your return for our "88" day outage, I will make sure to scare the hell out of you too.  BTW.....we still have (2) HP Supervisor positions open....I can put in a good word for you lol.  And you know Im only a 3.1 in time accumulated.....really Im still a deconner at heart.
« Last Edit: Feb 05, 2010, 04:00 by Bonds 25 »
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #77 on: Feb 06, 2010, 07:44 »
Marssim,

The 18.1 senior positions are similar to the assigned Warrant Officer titles of the military.  From our industries perspective, the time stipulation assigns the title.  Although several sites accept individuals at that status, they are usually restricted from what would be considered high risk activities, unless accompanied by a more experienced technician, (3.1).  The industries manpower demands may expand the duties of these individuals, which would probably yield some new regulatory oversight.  I have been to a couple of sites that used 18.1 seniors and had problems.  The field supervisors only hear the word “SENIOR” and dish out duties beyond the individual’s level of experience and expertise.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, depends on the technicians ability to know when their in over their head, combined with the willingness to admit it.
   
cubby11,

You haven't realized it, but you have a huge advantage!  As Slo mentioned, you have a traceable line on your career pedigree!  You where probably exposed to information that many members of our community don’t even know exist!  I'll bet Marssim's 50 bucks that you don't even know why some of the information was taught, or why you had to know and test on it, but that will be clarified as you gain experience in the industry!  As far as the classroom policies for attendance, my hat’s off to that instructor!

From the political aspect.....You attended and passed a program apparently sponsored by the NRC!  The program probably had a couple of other players associated with it, a contract company and/or maybe a utility or two!  Anybody in Nuke-Land want to overlook a kid’s resume that reads "Completed XXXX program, sponsorship by the US NRC"!
 
There are a couple of programs I know of, that sponsors actually subsidize and pay wages to the attendees.  Not a bad gig when you think of it, their giving these individuals a technical degree, a roof over their head and food on the table. 

Then again, I could just be making that up…… ;)!

Outages 2010…Happy Hunting…RG! 

stewdill

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #78 on: Feb 06, 2010, 06:18 »
Oh boy putting myself out there on this one. But the topic was the reason why road workers are finding it hard to find work. As far as Jr.s I know a little about this and have seen it first hand. I am myself a new 18.1 Sr. Recently graduating from the clutches of Jr. Time. I feel where some of the anger about these grads are justified to some point. I am speaking now from hearsay and from personal experience. When it comes to Bartlett and people rising up from being a deconner to a Jr. Education in nuclear field doesn't matter much. Or at all. I have known people who on their own have sought out getting education in the nuclear field and still not being able to rise to a Jr. position.

Then we have the Interns. OK so we got replaced with interns in our Jr. Jobs because the plant wanted to give them job experience.And later see if they wanted to hire them. We hated it, but we understood it. But Low and behold they didn't get their house job. O soooo sorry. But who returns the very next outage season as a fresh faced new Jr Rp for Bartlett. The same kids. And I have worked with MANY MANY MANY of them. Some are smart and try very hard. Most......................... .... well......................... ... Maybe they should of paid attention in meter reading class.... I don't really see why these kids are able to score the Jr jobs that are available over deconners who hope to move up. Some of those deconners may have the same training but remain decon. It is all very confusing to me. And not really much of a worry for me anymore until those non-meter reading kids become Srs. Lord help us all.

I guess this reply is in reply to whoever it was that said for road workers to go to school to compete with the Interns. When many have went to school and it counted towards diddly crap. And the interns have a road paved in gold.......... why I don't know.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #79 on: Feb 06, 2010, 10:08 »
I guess this reply is in reply to whoever it was that said for road workers to go to school to compete with the Interns. When many have went to school and it counted towards diddly crap. And the interns have a road paved in gold.......... why I don't know.

I thought I was talked out of this thread but the above post brought me back to a sore spot I have with Bartlett.   When I was at Rocky Flats Bartlett had a program to train you to be an RCT and I paid $2,200 to get my daughter trained in said program.   She took the  8 week course, which was more then just how to pass the core exam, that is meters, surveys etc.  She passed with flying colors.   Did it get her an outage?  No.   She started as a deconner and worked her way to a junior jobs just like a lot of other deconners.  She then passed the NUF.   I guess it made her a more knowledgeable junior, but it did not get her a position that she could have got as a deconner anyway and $2,200 down the drain.   You why I am somewhat skeptical about the value of the training programs verses on the job experience.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #80 on: Feb 06, 2010, 10:50 »
Everyone should just become registered with the NRRPT. I hear it is just like having a Bachelor's Degree; problem solved.

How's the search for outage work in 2010?

And pass the NRRPT I assume you also mean.  If everyone did that what a world it would be, at least for seniors with more than 5 years experience.  People who have passed that test are a cut above the rest.

How the search is going, all the positions are nearly filled.  Time to think about the fall.

stewdill

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #81 on: Feb 07, 2010, 04:24 »
LOL my short six years in nuclear industry.............. yes I have met Sr.s who have a hard time reading meters. But these kids took a two year class and come into the field supposivley trained. And have no idea how to read a meter. Not all of them but yea  some.

Jr8black3

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #82 on: Feb 07, 2010, 09:13 »
I applaud Content for getting his daughter in, I was up at Fermi last outage I was the night shift supervisor, there were not many folks there younger then me, and Im getting old atleast to me I'am..We almost had to put a wheel chair ramp in,,,Sr RP's are a dying breed.

College & Navy vrs. a deconner as a SR RP

I've seen techs with degrees yes they are smart, but they are lazy..I have seen it first hand..The Navy techs most of them go to ops or Engineering..

Folks don't get me wrong we had some good techs at Fermi..

But what these plants need to understand, they need to get some kids with a work ethic and let these SR's train them..One thing I did see at Fermi, I seen alot of people with no work ethic and that concerns me too..

Anyway goodluck to all in 2010, we may cross paths.

Just me

Cathy

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #83 on: Feb 07, 2010, 06:31 »
Quote from: Cathy on Feb 04, 2010, 20:16
I am glad to see a plant taking juniors! We are taking 8 this spring at Comanche Peak. No PCM watches here, I had 2 with me on the refuel floor last outage, they definitely got their "cavity time" 

friggin house slug..... ;)

Well, the carnie spoke up  ;D (No offense intended to actual hard working contractors) Kind of like calling the kettle black!!
I worked with you many times when I was a junior. I learned from the best how to abuse, I mean train juniors!
Over the years I have seen plants move juniors from being on the coat tails of seniors to PCM watch. I did my share of PCM watch one time as a junior at Clinton during their extended shutdown on nightshift. What a miserable job! If I had not been so close to being a senior that 3 months of sheer boredom would have done me in.
I believe if plants gave a little more training to juniors they would find them to be a valuable asset and bring more in for outages.
I do not know how the staffing for the outages this spring is going, I do know our junior slots filled up fast.

Jr8black3

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #84 on: Feb 07, 2010, 07:35 »
Cathy, one thing I hate, 2 weeks before she was going to be Sr.they threw her back into decon...I bet many can guess where this happened...

Going back to whatch the bowl game

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #85 on: Feb 09, 2010, 05:19 »
[Well, the carnie spoke up  ;D (No offense intended to actual hard working contractors) Kind of like calling the kettle black!!
I worked with you many times when I was a junior. I learned from the best how to abuse, I mean train juniors!
Over the years I have seen plants move juniors from being on the coat tails of seniors to PCM watch. I did my share of PCM watch one time as a junior at Clinton during their extended shutdown on nightshift. What a miserable job! If I had not been so close to being a senior that 3 months of sheer boredom would have done me in.

[/quote]
Thanks for not lumping me in with the "hard workers"  I've made a career out of avoiding physical labor :o

Even with those 3 months of PCM watch, you were still better prepared than a certain RPM....you know, the
one who asked a contractor if the Rx Cavity was inside Ctmt.....LOL

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #86 on: Mar 18, 2010, 07:49 »
It has been fun but from my perspective I have found out what happened this season from the recruiters and I am satisfied that they are not restricting anyone, and if there are some who restrict non-college trained it is a utility decision that they simply do not post the job in the first place if they intend to use interns.  The recruiters are OK.   It now becomes a matter of extending the search to include anything/everything out there, a level enough playing field for me.   That is all I originally sought to find out.

Sorry, but I think I'm going to lose some karma points on this one.  Content 1 seems to be blaming the staffing co.'s (Bartlett, Atlantic, etc.) instead of the plant bean counters.  I'm the last one to defend Bartlett et all, but they can't offer jobs that aren't awarded in the bid.  The staffing companies make money in keeping employees working.  They aren't going to turn down juniors if there are positions open!
For an educated man, it sure took long enough to figure out people were emphasizing A.N.S.I. 1.8 vs 18.1!!  :P :P :P :P

I was lucky, Virginia Power paid for my edumaction!  Once I had my three years in, employment was easy to find.  I never had to fight the Jr. drought so many others have.  I feel for them, please keep plugging.  We're getting kind of old and the industry needs to replace us as we die.  :( :( :( :(
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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #87 on: Mar 19, 2010, 01:26 »
Well this Jr discussion is getting off topic but..
Getting in JR time hasnt been easy since the early 90's but it can be done...and yes it will TAKE A WHILE!
It took me 4 years in the early-mid 90's & didnt try that hard....$7/hr & $40/day almost every place i went!
The point that is being missed is this;
Just because you have the time, doesnt mean an new Sr has the EXPERIENCE.
Jrs do soo little these days & not a complete fault of their own but to an extent, it is.
Enjoy the ride up & LEARN...The plant iam at brought in a couple of B- Jrs & a hand full of college kids.
As for the content 1, if your offspring has such a difficult time, why are you on here defending/ bemoaning the recruiters/ business???
Shouldnt they be & not you??

Content1

  • Guest
Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #88 on: Mar 19, 2010, 02:01 »

As for the content 1, if your offspring has such a difficult time, why are you on here defending/ bemoaning the recruiters/ business???
Shouldn't they be & not you??

Because I do not speak just for them, all juniors are finding similar problems and in the forum, like a crucible for ideas, look for answers that benefit all rather then suffer individually in silence.  I have heard mostly those who either blame themselves,  or say, "It's the systems and accept it," and I am encouraged by the few brave souls who share how they have succeeded in spite of the obstacles in the system.   What else is a forum for?   My offspring don't have the investment in the industry I do.   If it gets too bad they can do something else.   We old fogies can't run , we must hold our ground and fight for what we feel is right.   Forums like this spread the word what is happening in the industry and it is up to the individual to decide what are they going to do about it.   Many fear saying anything for fear of being "Blacklisted."   I have never found that to be the case.   Always find jobs in many fields in spite of my holding of an opinion.   If a person's complaint is reasonable you have to believe reason will eventually prevail.

jheard

  • Guest
Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #89 on: Aug 02, 2011, 01:48 »
 I know this reply is a bit late since it has been months since the last post. I would just like to add a little more information on the topic of internships (school vs. traveling hard workers blahblah).  I was introduced into this field my junior year in collage (i am studying Health physics ,minor in homeland security).  An internship spot had opened at the local power plant (which is located about 20 miles from my school) and was offering a 6 month internship, student pay, mentoring experience etc. The qualifications were : at least a 2.5, someone enrolled as a full time student, preferably an upper classman (sophomore or above), and you had to be majoring in either radiation technology/ health physics or some form of advanced technology or science. After the qualifications were met we had to go through an interviewing process with a few staff members (RPs) at the plant.  This program began my freshman year in collage, I am a senior now. 

Now that I am finally a recipeant of the internship/scholarship all I can say is wow.  I had never seen the inside of a nuclear power plant.  I began my internship 2 weeks ago.  For the months spanning between the call I received and my start date I was to spend my time studying all the information I was going to need at the site.  Some I had already studied for 3 years at school and some was new to me.  Over the past 2 weeks all of the House Tecs and contractor RPs have been like a huge family to me and my fellow co-op student.  We are to grab as much information available to us, study, and after we pass the NEU/NUF we begin our QUALS.  The purpose of this co-op/internship (in our area at least) is to introduce, educate, and train young individuals and mold them into RPs.

Now in no way am i knocking hard working people who go the other route (traveling and gaining experience) but one thing the contractor RPs are constantly telling me is that I am very lucky to begin this journey fresh from collage with the guidance of all of my mentors.  They stress to me the importance of gaining a house position for security (benefits, retirement, etc) but on the other hand they are not knocking outage work either.  Their best advice to me is to persue what makes me happy.   

Now for a show of how this program has turned out in the past, all of the co-op students from my school (over the past 3 years) have taken up a job in this field. And the most recent graduates are able to apply for a house job here.  This is nothing new because actually before the co-op was geared towards radiation it was a program strictly for the chemistry department. So this is just a different view showing that this program does work but it is up to the plants to continue to hire hard working people.  And not to accuse you of anything, but content 1 your opinions kinda made it look like you were bashing the importance of a good education and college degree. I do agree with you that some people do graduate receive a degree (piece of paper) and dont know crap but thats their problem and in that case that piece of paper won't get them anywhere but on the couch at their parent's house.
 :o sorry so long but thats my story

 


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