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Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #50 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:42 »
I just couldn't hold it for another minute.  I am really sick of people feeling entitled to a job - any job.  For years, there has been this divide between those who have been educated in this field (mostly military folks) and those who have actual practical experience (mostly former deconners).  I have tried my best over the years to learn as much from the former deconners as I could.  On the other hand, only a few of those folks ever bothered to get any technical training.  Those who did, are the best techs ever, but the vast majority of RP techs who did not come out of the Navy or some other formal training program are the ones who CONSTANTLY complain about the requirements that they pass the NEU/NUF exam.
Not everyone who spent their workdays watching RP's work are automatically qualified to replace them.  Only the ones who ask a lot of questions and crack a book now and then become good techs.  The rest are no more than a rack to hang a meter on.  Usually, as soon as a deconner gets to be really good as a deconner, he becomes really useless as an RP instead.  One day, he's making a difference, the next day he can't do anything on his own.

I never said she was entitled to a job, only that she is qualified and has the ability to learn whatever is needed to do the job.  Just because she spent time as a deconner should only help her ability to be a Good RP.   Your prejudice against deconners does not account for people on a career path using Decon as a stepping stone to RP.  Deconners out there, are all of you unqualified to do anything but decon?
I have helped guide her career and only on the advice of recruiters she went to decon first.  Were they wrong?   And by the way, she took and passed he NUF the first time with no problems.


So now, finally after all these years, someone is merging the two flowpaths.  Education and practical experience will be combined to make techs who are fully trained by education and experience to do this work.  The prayer has been answered!  Are you going to hear any bitching from the techs out there who came from the Navy or college?  Nope.  You're going to hear a lot of it from those who just lost their shortcut to a higher-paying job.  Listen to yourself.  What you are saying is "it's not fair that we have to compete with people who are more qualified than we are."

I don't know who was doing the praying but it was probably to a false god.  I hardly call starting from the bottom and working your way up a shortcut.   I would say taking someone off the street who just graduated high school barely literate as so many are and jumping into a junior job never deconning a wrench is the short-cutter.  When I went to college the first 2 years you mainly had to show up to pass, hardly the cream of the crop an industry needs.  It was not until my senior year in college I had to earn every bit of my way.   Same for law school.  I say a person who works their way up is far more qualified then a newbie from college.

I'm going to say this for the hundredth time:  RP Tech is not and should not be the career progression from deconner.  If you are a good deconner, you ought to get paid well enough for it that you don't go looking to leave the job to become a Jr. RP.  Unfortunately, very few these days even get to the point of being a good deconner.  They're just putting in the time until they can get a Jr. Tech. spot somewhere.  Then, they put in the time to be a Sr. Tech.  Then, they stop trying altogether.
If you want to become an RP, it should take more than just having worked for Bartlett as a deconner until they get tired of hearing you ask for a JR. RP job.  Yes, loyalty is a great thing.  But is is not the same as being qualified.  About half of the current bunch of techs need to be plenty scared, because many of you got there the easy way and are not as good as you think you are.  If some kid out of technical school gets your job, you really have nobody to blame but yourself.

I do think you exaggerate about the 100th time, by saying something that is either wrong or a half-truth does not improve with reptition.  I would put my daughter again your newbie 2 year college grad if such a competion existed and she'd wipe the floor with him, knowledge for knowledge. . .You set it up, name the time and place, and see we will be ready.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #51 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:47 »
"It makes no sense for them to ignore my daughter, who is one outage away from being a 1.8 senior"



She has A LONG WAY to go to being a senior if she is only one outage away from being an 1.8   :)

Some plants accept senior at the 1.8 level, ans she is close to that level.  The plan is to work as a 1.8 until you reach 3.1.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #52 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:49 »
I'm still not quite following..in your above statement:

Who are "we"; who are "them" and how are the "we" "fighting back"?

Nukeworkers..more specifically, RP techs, are not going to stick together (remember the late 80's); even recently there has been some discussion on the operation of a "union-like" RP Staffing company; I'll look for the discussion and post a link as a late edit if I locate it.

Armed with the knowledge that Jr techs appear to be coming from community college programs, how will you advise your daughters to proceed?

"We" are those who are self-taught or working their way up to be a senior from a deconner background and those who support their efforts.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #53 on: Feb 04, 2010, 04:54 »
"When you throw a rock in the pig pen it's the one you hit that squeals"

Do us a favor, try reading for comprehension, use the spell check, and contribute in a positive manner if possible. As hard a pill as it is to swallow Beercourt is right. No matter were a tech comes from the ones who have a combination of experience and training (even if self taught) are the ones who will and should succeed.

Making your argument ad hominen attack does not detract from the point he was making.  Beercourt was acting like a king and he only pointed it out, gave an opinion.  People resort to fallacies of logic when the cannot fight by going through the from door of an argument.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #54 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:07 »
Well I guess nobody told millstone, and the duke plants and my recruiters like Joey, who calculated how close she is to that kind of senior.   I will check with them.  Based on what you are saying there are no exceptions to the 3.1 senior.  Yes, that is news to me.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #55 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:22 »
Making your argument ad hominen attack does not detract from the point he was making.  Beercourt was acting like a king and he only pointed it out, gave an opinion.  People resort to fallacies of logic when the cannot fight by going through the from front door of an argument.

   Beercourt was responding from the position of a very experienced professional in a responsible position. He was pointing out the realities of the business not the wishful thinking of how someone thinks it should be. That you think the "Business" owes anyone anything is wishful thinking. If you are a contractor going to any facility it is the expectation that you are providing a preexisting service and qualification. If you want training as part of your job hire into a house position.
  
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2010, 06:24 by Marlin »

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #56 on: Feb 04, 2010, 06:25 »

You're missing the emoticons again,....

There are no 1.8 seniors,....

There are 18.1 seniors under an older standard,....

I thought you had 20 years in this RP business?!?!?!?!,... ;)

Heard back from Joey, and I quote:

At 03:12 PM 2/4/2010, you wrote:
Not true - we have several sites that still accept 18.1 SHP's (24 Months
of HP Time)
"A staffing and solutions company"

Joey Melanson

Sr. Lead Recruiter

I hope this puts this matter to rest.

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #57 on: Feb 04, 2010, 07:44 »
Content 1
There is a job posting for junior's >9 mont's at ANO. Don't say there isn't work for your daughter or is it the fact that you didn't get a package deal where you are going? If it the latter is the case, you aren't going to find much sympathy for your position on this board or any other board. Let us know, is your animosity toward Bartlett and DZA because of a package deal gone bad?
With 7 or 8 less outages this fall, I wouldn't push too hard for package deals, or you may not get work yourself.

Keith

Asa1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #58 on: Feb 04, 2010, 07:49 »
that's funny keith. definitely not a closer.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #59 on: Feb 04, 2010, 08:09 »
If Joey gives you a confirmation letter for employment as an ANSI 1.8 Senior Technician on Bartlett letterhead,...I'll give you 50 bucks,....

It would be worth every penny to see Jerry Hiatt's face when he learns his company is confirming 1.8 Senior Technicians at plant XYZ,...

You will give up 50 bucks so easily.   Before I take your money, call Joey yourself.  My posting was from his actual email to me, that is why the time and date was showing.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #60 on: Feb 04, 2010, 08:23 »
Content 1
There is a job posting for junior's >9 mont's at ANO. Don't say there isn't work for your daughter or is it the fact that you didn't get a package deal where you are going? If it the latter is the case, you aren't going to find much sympathy for your position on this board or any other board. Let us know, is your animosity toward Bartlett and DZA because of a package deal gone bad?
With 7 or 8 less outages this fall, I wouldn't push too hard for package deals, or you may not get work yourself.

Keith

I am one step ahead of you, we are going to submit their resume's tonight.  It is possible to get that 2nd outage.  I did talk to DZ recruiter and she said though there is less demand this season, it is not ending as I get the impression from Beercourt.  I have no animosity toward any company, I just want my daughters treated fairly like I want for ALL juniors vs. the impression the decon path junior was being phased out.   I am not angry, just determined and an advocate.   I have been the thorn in many sides of things I feel passionate about and we do not give up easily.  I am suggesting all decon path juniors to never give up either. 

Cathy

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #61 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:16 »
I am glad to see a plant taking juniors! We are taking 8 this spring at Comanche Peak. No PCM watches here, I had 2 with me on the refuel floor last outage, they definitely got their "cavity time"  :)

Offline Incline

Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #62 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:25 »
Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response. For Content1 to compare a 2 year school to a high school is as ignorant as it is inflammatory. I took Reactor Physics in my 2 year program( not exactly high school stuff). And no i was not in the Navy. When i graduated in the early 90's i hit the road and it was hard to find a junior job because most of the junior jobs were filled with House Tech/Senior Tech wives or relatives. So i took a jr. decon spot and worked my up from there, by asking alot of questions a trying to learn as much as i could from both the Sr. deconners and RP's.
 I found that it was relatively easy to stay working when you get in a system( I was in Duke) and work your butt off to stay till your jr time is out of the way. I may not have made as much money as i could have but i got plenty of experience and that all important jr. time.
 And just so you know...when i worked for Bartlett a few years ago Mike Ballard came to our site and told us of scholarships that Bartlett was giving for people wanting to get their degree from a particular school in the mid-west. I am now a House Tech and our site is giving fullride scholarships to the local community colleges offering degrees in Nuclear Technology. The students have to maintain a certain GPA, but that still does not mean they will get a house job.  That will take initiative and alot of hard work during internships.

 Oh and also i know of at least two RPM's and quite a few Supervisors that have 2 year degrees and came up much the same way I did. Tell your kids to go to valve tech school with Atlantic if you want them to keep working. It has alot less regulatory compliance issues for the money and other types of plants have valves too.

 P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #63 on: Feb 04, 2010, 09:49 »
Do your kids a favor...teach them how to dial the phone themselves.  Do you plan on covering their first system breach for them too?

If the truth be know they were kind of raised in the business and on the job, they often remind me of the procedures and codes and they follow them because they believe in them, verses I do so to keep out of trouble.   I help them do things that I am good at, on the job, they are on their own and are better socially adjusted then myself.   They make friends wherever they go and often get recommendation from the RP manager to please come back.   That is why I was so surprised when  I found the trouble all juniors are having this season.

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #64 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:15 »
1) Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response.

 2)P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 
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Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #65 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:23 »
Well you finally did it. I registered just so i could post a response. For Content1 to compare a 2 year school to a high school is as ignorant as it is inflammatory. I took Reactor Physics in my 2 year program( not exactly high school stuff). And no i was not in the Navy. When i graduated in the early 90's i hit the road and it was hard to find a junior job because most of the junior jobs were filled with House Tech/Senior Tech wives or relatives. So i took a jr. decon spot and worked my up from there, by asking alot of questions a trying to learn as much as i could from both the Sr. deconners and RP's.
 I found that it was relatively easy to stay working when you get in a system( I was in Duke) and work your butt off to stay till your jr time is out of the way. I may not have made as much money as i could have but i got plenty of experience and that all important jr. time.
 And just so you know...when i worked for Bartlett a few years ago Mike Ballard came to our site and told us of scholarships that Bartlett was giving for people wanting to get their degree from a particular school in the mid-west. I am now a House Tech and our site is giving fullride scholarships to the local community colleges offering degrees in Nuclear Technology. The students have to maintain a certain GPA, but that still does not mean they will get a house job.  That will take initiative and alot of hard work during internships.

 Oh and also i know of at least two RPM's and quite a few Supervisors that have 2 year degrees and came up much the same way I did. Tell your kids to go to valve tech school with Atlantic if you want them to keep working. It has alot less regulatory compliance issues for the money and other types of plants have valves too.

 P.S. I are computer illiterate and don't know how to get the smiley's to work.
 
:) :o :P

Why don't you do more than register for free, become a Gold member to keep this site alive, Nukeworker is great to have around and we all should support it.

First, congratulations on doing well in school, working as a junior deconner and now a house tech.   I don't see why you are upset, you are an example of someone self-making their success, I bet you are glad when you were still a deconner someone didn't say to you that you will never make a good RP and that you should drop out of the business go to school first before you could become an RP.  If you got education on top of your hard work, more power to you.  I have great respect for the RPM's who made they way up the ranks though hard work, and I am glad nobody held them back when they did not have a 4 year degree.   This system works.   My complaint was if you read all the posts is someone was saying that if you come from a deconner job you would NEVER make a good RP unless they had a college background.   You have help prove my argument that only in the dictionary does success comes before work.  I hope you stay with nukeworker and give your opinions on how to make it a better industry.

Not to disparage most 2 year college programs, but the Navy does the same all in 6 months and I would trust their knowledge and training over many with a 4 year degree.   I looked at their programs and a college degree represents that you attended enough classes and subjects to get the piece of paper.  It is more of a demonstration of tenacity verses mastery of a subject.   That piece of paper set you above those who do not have it.  When you continue to a 4 year degree they are suppose to also teach you how to independently think too, no time for that in a 2 year degree.   Even when I got my 4 year degree to be a teacher, it was only a gateway to take another year of college to get a teaching credential.   Education never ends.   I am glad we had other methods in the past for self-study, like the way Lincoln studied law and later became our 16th President and probably save our country, was available.   The is room in our world for both, the self-made and the college made, and any kind of hybrid in between.

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #66 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:26 »
You will give up 50 bucks so easily.   Before I take your money, call Joey yourself.  My posting was from his actual email to me, that is why the time and date was showing.

Why are you having such a hard time with this....THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN 1.8 SENIOR HP !!!!!!!!!!    They are 18.1 seniors.  Reread all your replies Dude.......and pay Marssim his $50, because Joey knows there is no such thing.
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2010, 10:28 by Bonds 25 »
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #67 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:37 »
TYpo, and I am not as fast as the younger folks catching on and need to be spoon fed sometimes.  In any case, an 18.1 is a good place for a junior to go to on their to a 3.1 senior.  "Oops", as Brittney would say. :D :D :D

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #68 on: Feb 04, 2010, 10:45 »
Much better :)   I was an 18.1 for 2 years before I made 3.1, and that is considered extremely fast now days. Quite a few plants do indeed take 18.1's.  Tell your Daughter that if she cant find an 18.1 job, JR jobs also count as time towards 3.1 (not sure if you knew this already)  So as she climbs the 3.1 ladder, JR jobs (even if she has qualified as an 18.1) are better than NO JOB.
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Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #69 on: Feb 05, 2010, 03:47 »
I am glad to see a plant taking juniors! We are taking 8 this spring at Comanche Peak. No PCM watches here, I had 2 with me on the refuel floor last outage, they definitely got their "cavity time"  :)

friggin house slug..... ;)

Offline btkeele

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #70 on: Feb 05, 2010, 03:51 »
Much better :)   I was an 18.1 for 2 years before I made 3.1, and that is considered extremely fast now days. Quite a few plants do indeed take 18.1's.  Tell your Daughter that if she cant find an 18.1 job, JR jobs also count as time towards 3.1 (not sure if you knew this already)  So as she climbs the 3.1 ladder, JR jobs (even if she has qualified as an 18.1) are better than NO JOB.
YOU made 3.1?  Way to go!  LOL   you get that new B'mer you were lookin at?

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #71 on: Feb 05, 2010, 08:14 »
I'm going to say this for the hundredth time:

Troy, I've told you a million times -- stop exaggerating!
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cubby11

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #72 on: Feb 05, 2010, 09:00 »
I think there are many advantages and disadvantages to go to a tech school.  I may be a little biased because I just recently went through a tech school.  But I have been a JR now for 2 years and yes at first the deconners knew a little more than me in the field such as: where everything is and what to do, but after working a couple of outages there that really isn't the case anymore.  But on the other hand, I know a whole lot more theory than they do.  Don't get me wrong me though, because there are plenty of deconners that know there stuff, but the majority don't even compare.  As far as deconners knowing more theory than techs that have gone through a tech school, I find that hard to believe. 
As far as scholarships went, the NRC paid it.  We had to maintain a 3.0 GPA, and enroll into the nuclear work force within 6 months (I think) after graduation.  I'm not sure if the NRC still offers this, but they did when I attended school.  The classes were ran by a former navy nuke.  Classroom policies were very stringent, ex, tardy to class-3 pts off final grade, late-5 points off final grade, no questions asked.  With all this being said, I personally think going through a tech school is better than being a deconner first.  I also got paid for an internship too !  $10,00 is a lot of money when you're still in school.

Content1

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #73 on: Feb 05, 2010, 10:57 »
It has been fun but from my perspective I have found out what happened this season from the recruiters and I am satisfied that they are not restricting anyone, and if there are some who restrict non-college trained it is a utility decision that they simply do not post the job in the first place if they intend to use interns.  The recruiters are OK.   It now becomes a matter of extending the search to include anything/everything out there, a level enough playing field for me.   That is all I originally sought to find out.

klsas

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Re: Outages For 2010
« Reply #74 on: Feb 05, 2010, 11:07 »
Back to outages for 2010.

This past Sunday, Wyle labs in Huntsville, AL put their ad in the paper looking for mechanical types to work various spring outages. I see that they are not one of Mike's sponsors. Mike, seek them out and try to get them onboard. They advertise at the beginning of every season. HP isn't the only field that needs people.

Keith

 


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