Really thinking of taking NLO over SRO

[deadspace1399]

Hello all on nukeworker!
I am a nuke MM1/SS EWS/EOOW/EDPO/EDO with 9.6 years and the Bachelors of Nuclear Engineering Tech. from Excelsior College approaching my EAOS at the end of May.
I am an instructor here at Ballston Spa, NY and am ready to move on to the big leagues of civilian power.

I have researched this great site for awhile looking at the various posts from many, many, many guys/gals just like me who are getting out and ask the typical questions of pay and for the most part everyone is interested in instant SRO.

For myself, however, I have looked through the posts and heeded the warnings of all posters on the site, especially Broadzilla for the instant SRO topic.

I am slated next week for Shearan Harris Nuclear 1 in North Carolina for the POSS exam/interview for a NLO position.
Exelon would like me at the same time for an interview for instant SRO for Oyster Creek NJ.  
Also TVA would like to interview me for instant SRO for Sequoyah 1/2 at the end of April.

NLO job starts at 55,000$ initially which is a bit of a pay cut from the navy as I understand overtime begins about a year after qualifications and eventually I would start making more money with overtime, not exactly sure how much as I have read some posts that state typically 80K+

TVA has stated I would start at 80K and then that would jump to 120K if successful through the program.

Exelon flashed the most money at 105K starting out until success(A big IF I know).  The HR lady for Exelon stated they have an 80% success rate but I don't trust any of that....I wonder about the quality of the TVA and Exelon SRO training programs....

I have read many people state that if offered SRO just take it.  But my mindset is that this is my professional career outside of the Navy and I want to make it the best I can.  
My concerns with Exelon if I were to take that path are the cost of living in NJ, the fact that Oyster Creek is a BWR vice PWR, and the age of the facility and the quality of the training program.  
My concerns with TVA are the quality of the training program and well I work with plenty of civilians/officers here on the Kesselring site who qualify EOOW are placed in an elevated position above me and yet have no clue of how to run equipment outside of using the announcing circuit to order people to start equipment.  I get a bit resentful to that fact(I also despise Navy "leadership" but that is a separate issue) So I thought that the quality of product for a NLO to SRO would be much better and I would perhaps have more people appreciate the fact that I started from the entry level position and worked my way up.

I am not afraid to put the time in at work and work hard for SRO, but I feel that hands down the NLO guy in SRO quals clearly has the advantage no matter what.  But I am also concerned about how long it would take to get into SRO quals as an NLO, if it took me 5 years to get into RO because of Union/Seniority and then maybe another 5 years to get into SRO after that it makes me wonder what the instant SRO time line would be like in comparison.  

So I like warm weather, I am not a big fan of snow, I've been stationed up here in the North east virtually all of my career and the cost of living in North Carolina and Tennessee is better than the north east.  

So of the three choices what would any of you choose?  I am leaning toward the NLO route for fear of not passing the license tests for SRO and being a better SRO overall.

I have to let Exelon and Progress energy know what I intend by friday.  Thanks for any help!

Eirik

[JustinHEMI05]

I say go for SRO if offered.

The old adage of an "SRO born from NLOs" is better, is false. Its a stigma that only SOME old timers hold, but that attitude is changing in the industry as they put out to pasture. Sometimes its true, sometimes its not. It all depends on the person, and that is the bottom line. There are instant SROs that are great, there are NLO born SROs that are bad, vice versa. And if you think an instant SRO is the same as what you described as someone just shouting orders over the 2mc, you are WAY off course. With today's SRO training programs, the NLO to SRO path is unnecessary. In days gone by when license class was only 9 months, relying heavily on your experience as an NLO, it was probably true. But not anymore.

No matter what you do, much of the training you do will be self taught. So, only you can answer for yourself whether or not you can make it through an instant SRO program. Its a lot of long study hours, often at the sacrifice of family time. That will still hold true even if you go up for a license from NLO. Then after training, you have to actually learn the job of sitting in a room pushing paper. It doesn't take being an NLO-RO-SRO to do that.

And the HR at Exelon didn't lie. They have a pretty good track record, compared to the rest of the industry. Probably because Exelon seems to hire the most instant SROs. At my plant, Peach Bottom, we put up 12/13 people and all 12 got licenses.

I qualify my remarks by having been through an instant SRO program at Exelon and having recently received my license. I used to buy into the fact that I am not born from NLOs, that I am somehow an inferior SRO, but that is patently false. Add to that the fact that the NLOs getting their licenses in my class said that their NLO experience in no way helped them in class. It does help them with interfacing with other organizations faster, but you get that in like 2 weeks sitting in the room after you get your license.

Good luck to you. Keep us posted.

[Fermi2]

"TVA has stated I would start at 80K and then that would jump to 120K if successful through the program."

Not true, more like 85 to 95K.

[Fermi2]

 SROs who have been NLOs first are as a rule better at being an SRO than an instant, after NLO-RO Upgrades I prefer individuals who have been Licensed Elsewhere then those who have been engineers at the plant. That is not an old timer adage.
 Put it this way, I've been a Shift Manager for 12 years now. I've had both types work for me and I know exactly which type I prefer working on my group. I know exactly which groups I end up having to babysit and which I'm comfortable leaving in charge when I'm out in the plant, also which groups have caused more major and minor plant events and more headaches for me. It's NOT the SROs that qualified as NLOs.

[JustinHEMI05]

SROs who have been NLOs first are as a rule better at being an SRO than an instant, after NLO-RO Upgrades I prefer individuals who have been Licensed Elsewhere then those who have been engineers at the plant. That is not an old timer adage.
 Put it this way, I've been a Shift Manager for 12 years now. I've had both types work for me and I know exactly which type I prefer working on my group. I know exactly which groups I end up having to babysit and which I'm comfortable leaving in charge when I'm out in the plant, also which groups have caused more major and minor plant events and more headaches for me. It's NOT the SROs that qualified as NLOs.

Like I said, its going to come down to the individual. In your experience, that is what you saw, so be it. I don't disagree that you have to keep an eye on engineers with licenses.  I am just saying that so far, in my experience, an NLO born SRO doesn't necessarily make a good SRO, and being and instant doesn't necessarily make a bad SRO. I have just decided to stop discouraging people from instant SRO based on what I have seen thus far.

And by old timers, I am talking about the old timers at my plant. I should have clarified that. There were a few that didn't like instants, no matter what. That attitude is changing.

[Fermi2]

Ok, I agree with you on the later. I believe everyone should try for the best paying position possible.

It's not the engineers that frighten me to death though. It's the instants out of the Navy. As a rule they aren't smart enough to understand when they are in trouble, and usually are too stubborn to admit it, they also tend to try to delegate supervision upwards. They're flat out scary.

One thing the old timers tend to be less proficient at is the modern view of enforcing, coaching, and documenting behaviours. They are a far better at operating the plant and for the most part are at least willing to learn the softer skills. I prefer them over an Instant who has no idea the plant is on the verge of going to hell so he retreats to the soft stuff.

If another really bad thing happens in this industry it will be due to the actions of a fresh out of the Navy instant. The warning signs, ie increased NRC Events and the like are already there.

[JustinHEMI05]

Ok, I agree with you on the later. I believe everyone should try for the best paying position possible.

It's not the engineers that frighten me to death though. It's the instants out of the Navy. As a rule they aren't smart enough to understand when they are in trouble, and usually are too stubborn to admit it, they also tend to try to delegate supervision upwards. They're flat out scary.

One thing the old timers tend to be less proficient at is the modern view of enforcing, coaching, and documenting behaviours. They are a far better at operating the plant and for the most part are at least willing to learn the softer skills. I prefer them over an Instant who has no idea the plant is on the verge of going to hell so he retreats to the soft stuff.

If another really bad thing happens in this industry it will be due to the actions of a fresh out of the Navy instant. The warning signs, ie increased NRC Events and the like are already there.

Hmmm I guess we just have different types of navy instants. At my plant, a large population of the SROs are Navy instants, and some of them are the best SROs at the plant. There are 1 or 2 that aren't doing so hot, but they also came from one box to another, if you catch my drift. The guys that turned some valves for a living, are doing quite well.

[deadspace1399]

Well thanks for the input...I DO NOT WANT TO BE the Navy instant who is so stubborn and retarded that he ruins nuclear power again for America...that would be the worse case scenario. 
I didn't mean any disrespect by saying that some people I work with at site do nothing but bark orders over the 2MC, as a comparison to everyone....BUT I do have to say quite a few really aren't aware of the timing and pain to get certain things done. 
I would go into any SRO position as humble and know I know nothing.....I know enough to get a foot in the door and nothing more....
I would think that the oyster creek position would be a more difficult path because of the BWR to PWR transition....
TVA is a PWR and so is Shearan Harris....
I am trying to arrange for Exelon to interview me the 22nd and 23rd even though Harris and Oyster Creek both want the 15th and 16th to keep my options open....

Justin your words on the transition if I choose that path are encouraging...but yes Broadzilla I heed your experience and I want to be a solid leader if I become a supervisor

Its funny at work....there are two LT's and a civilian who keep telling me they all have 'friends' who have done or doing SRO and that its 'just like EOOW'...makes me laugh with all the posts on here I have read.....

[JustinHEMI05]

That is the attitude I had when I got into the industry... that of being humble and not under any illusions that I knew what I was doing. Like you said, foot in the door. That attitude has served me well thus far.

As far as BWR to PWR, I can comment on that as well, since I did sit in class for 6 months at a PWR.

Trust me, even though navy nukes are PWRs, they are vastly different than commercial PWRs. Sure, reactor power still follows steam demand, but that is where the similarities end. In the most basic of terms, the low enrichment of a commercial nuke's fuel changes how the plant operates on a grand scale.

As far as BWR, man, they are just fun! I was nervous about coming to a BWR too, but they are a bit easier, IMO, than a PWR. Looking back now, I don't think I want to ever go back to a PWR. In the simulator, things just seem to be much more dynamic and require much more operator interaction than the PWR I was at. I thrive on that though, and may not necessarily be something someone else is looking for.

So that said, I wouldn't sweat that transition too much. Many of us have made it, so can you.

As far as your LT's thinking EOOW is the same, that just shows how uninformed the Navy is about what its really like. My buddy and I from prototype laugh because when we were getting out, we used to think; "How hard can it be? Its just flow charts and multiple choice questions."   Needless to say, we were WAY off. Tell your LTs we passed EOOW level literally week 1 in the simulator.

By the way, I have a sneaking suspicion that the navy nukes Broadzilla refers to are of the type your are talking about with your LTs. In that case, I would agree with him. I could be wrong though.

[Neutron_Herder]

I would think that the oyster creek position would be a more difficult path because of the BWR to PWR transition....

Like Justin said, even a PWR on the outside isn't the same as in the Navy.  BWR's are different, but not so different that you can't learn it.

There are some things to look at besides pay for these positions...  Look at the benefits each company offers (401(k), etc.).  Also look closely at the cost of living in the area you're going to.  Most of all, don't forget that every penny of what you make in your new job is taxable!!  That makes a huge difference in what you take home.  If you haven't done it yet there's a pay calculator on the NPC web site that will correlate your Navy pay to what you'd have to make on the outside.  It assumes you use the exchange and commissary exclusively, (and a couple of other bad assumptions) but it can give you a really good idea of how much you need to make to break even.

Good luck!

[xro]

pm me for another take on Oyster Creek and NLO vs RO.

[deadspace1399]

Well the 105,000$ would certainly be more than I make in the navy hands down...The cost of living is pricey in the north east as compared to the south, but I've lived in NY for the last 4 years so I think anything else will be a step up in that area....

xro: Thanks for your adivce!

[ranger2]

Hmmm I guess we just have different types of navy instants. At my plant, a large population of the SROs are Navy instants, and some of them are the best SROs at the plant. There are 1 or 2 that aren't doing so hot, but they also came from one box to another, if you catch my drift. The guys that turned some valves for a living, are doing quite well.

Similar experience here. I can count the number of non-instant SROs here on one hand. Nevertheless, the plant has managed to stay INPO 1 for the past 10 years. I work with good AND less good SROs of both flavors.

I used to hear similar arguments in the navy regarding prior-enlisted JOs vs non-priors. Truly, some of the best JOs I've encountered were prior-enlisted; however, so was the single worst JO.

[deadspace1399]

That is an excellent point...I know two awesome prior enlisted JO's and I know two terrible ones.....something to think about

[ranger2]

Another way of looking at it:

It is less important to know everything than it is to recognize what you don't know (and to work to find the answer or ask the right questions).

[co60slr]

As far as your LT's thinking EOOW is the same, that just shows how uninformed the Navy is about what its really like. My buddy and I from prototype laugh because when we were getting out, we used to think; "How hard can it be? Its just flow charts and multiple choice questions."   Needless to say, we were WAY off. Tell your LTs we passed EOOW level literally week 1 in the simulator.

By the way, I have a sneaking suspicion that the navy nukes Broadzilla refers to are of the type your are talking about with your LTs. In that case, I would agree with him. I could be wrong though.

Let's not forget about 10CFR50.54(x) and (y).   No "LARs" in Commercial.  Also, EOOW/EDO are not qualified to handle fuel.   However, "they" have us on being able to take their submarine reactor to the North Pole and back.

More importantly though, my biggest education is the difference in "command and control", accountability, authority, and responsibility of the Commercial SRO as compared to an EOOW.  

We were once naive too.   That's how and why we can make a difference in this Forum.   ;-)

Co60

[ranger2]

IMHO, time at the plant, as opposed to your path of progression, is what makes you a wiser SRO. An instant who earned his license 20 years ago has more plant OPEX to draw upon than an NLO jumping to management after 3 years.

[deadspace1399]

I notified Exelon I will do the interview and I am set to be there(NJ) April 15/16.  I am to take the BMST and then interview...
I figure its worth a shot and I know that if accepted I would put the time in to make sure I learn things the best I can....
I guess my question to BZ is are you referring to the newly Licensed Navy Instant SRO's or just the guys in training?
I know as an instructor it can get annoying and seem that a person is doomed to failure as they stumble through training, but given time I have seen even people I didn't think could do well actual perform very good.
I already know that I would be the new guy and even though I would try and minimize error it will still come and I just have to learn from it...
I have already bought the two prints books that you BZ recommended for SRO's in training to utilize for prints from Amazon.com and even though I have had exposure to electrical prints for tagouts and digital IC circuits for college I can certainly improve.
So now to review for the BMST exam and practice answers to questions that I might be asked in an interview...I have heeded your warnings about references BZ, I will walk into the interview prepared to give many a reference with email and phone numbers.
Any more advice is helpful!
Thanks!

[thenuttyneutron]

I am mostly a lurker on this website.  I have to say, I really hate that bug running around on my screen.

Good luck on your interview.

[deadspace1399]

Thanks!  I figured the bug might annoy someone

Still a bit nervous and I am wondering after the interview of the 15/16th how long for a turnaround on letting me know if I am hired or not...the class up period is June 1st, So I was hoping it would only take one week for a thumbs up or down.  BUT I know HR people can sometimes have you slip through the cracks so I figured I would be calling frequently for follow up.

I know the area isn't the most preferred by most people, I know that the plant is older and so I am hoping that if these things detour people from really wanting that area that plays out in my favor....

[tr]

As far as Exelon HR, they seem to be quick (at least in engineering).  A friend saw a position on Monster, and was literally interviewed, hired, moved, and connected to their computer system within about 3 weeks.

[Laundry Man]

Make sure you check out the area around Oyster.  Nice to be near the water but it is very expensive to live there.  How do I know?  Was house there, (not in Ops) loved the area but to pricey to make it worth it.
LM

[deadspace1399]

Well I just finished the leadership assessment, the interview and the BMST.  I think all went well but you never know....during my interview they asked if I had any other offers or interviews and I explained what I have available and they re-assured me that I would have an answer within a week (by next friday) at the latest and that if I don't I should be calling.  So that made me feel encouraged a bit, BUT I shall wait and see. 

I thought the leadership assessment was fun, I did barely get everything done and I felt great at the end of the day because I really took charge during one of the meetings we held with the other candidates and I drove the meeting to were it was intended to go.

The interview seemed fine and I think the answers I provided were in a good 'STAR' format and the panel and myself were comfortable enough to joke around a little bit.

The BMST was fine, accept the proctor lady wouldn't let me go to the bathroom....for the last hour I had to pee really bad and it made concentration a little bit more difficult.  I finished my test and handed it to her and she still said I couldn't go pee until the three hours was up.  So I think it went well enough with the test, the math without a calculator is time consuming so I went through the test and answered the easier questions then went back and began all the long division and multiplication questions.

I am a bit nervous because I really decided I want to do this and do my best at it.......but we shall see....

[JustinHEMI05]

Good luck and keep us posted!!!

[deadspace1399]

The anticipation is killing me...........if only friday would come sooner!
I really want to show em what I got for SRO........

[JustinHEMI05]

I hear ya man, hang in there!

[rlbinc]

I'd go with Exelon / Oyster Creek.
I have the dubious privilege of being both an Exelon and a Progress Energy former employee.
Exelon makes no bones about it - perform or die. They also pay you 50% more and work you twice as hard.
Progress Energy is a bit different. They hug the bottom 10% of the industry pay scale and expect top results.

So I'd follow the money. The EXC SRO position is going to pay at least twice what a PGN NLO makes.

All of them ride you like a wet horse, so have a fatter wallet when heading back to the barn.

[rlbinc]

The old adage of an "SRO born from NLOs" is better, is false.

Beg to differ. I started out as an NLO, 5 years later I got a shot at license class.
I was assigned on shift with a myriad of Instant SROs.
Can't tell you how many times an Instant SRO handed the phone across the desk when an NLO called in with a plant problem.
Why? The SRO never had the NLOs job, felt the "ROs born from NLOs" were better qualified to handle it.
Steam Jet Air Ejectors troubles, a smoking CCW Pump bearing, and HV Switching Orders were examples of hand offs I received.

Instants have had trouble on walkthroughs, because they lack in plant experience. NLOs lived in the outside the MCR environs for a sustained period. I never saw a former NLO pooch an NRC Exam Walkthrough.
Wish I could say that about Instants.

I recognize I'm Of Topic, but plant experience at the NLO level was a definite building block in my career. If you don't have it - you may not even know what you missed.

[deadspace1399]

Well thanks for the advice, I don't mind being worked hard(and being payed for it).....That seems to be the consistent report I get about Exelon, they pay well, but you must work for it which is reasonable of course...
Hopefully tomorrow I find out if I have the Instant SRO position with Oyster Creek since the class up begins June 1st.  
I interview with Progress Energy on the 29th of April for NLO and TVA has said the first week of May I can expect to interview for Instant SRO.....
I'm hoping that HR at Exelon does inform me tomorrow I intend on calling them....

As far as the NLO experience, yes I understand it will be an advantage that a few of the other people in the licensing class will have, one guy I met during the leadership assessment has been at Oyster Creek for 12 years, he is an RO born from NLO and I know I will have to work extremely hard to show my competency with people like that in the class.  

I guess the class up for Oyster Creek is intended to be split up into three groups, two students who are RO upgrades, two students who are engineers crossing over, and lastly two outsiders.  
During the leadership assessment I noticed there were only 5 of us as outsiders.  Each one from the navy.  There were two guys who were currently on a shore duty as recruiters and of those, one of them has the thomas edison degree.  There was a 6 and out navy RO who is working on his degree.  There was a 6 and out navy RO who is currently a STA in Crystal River Florida, and lastly there was myself.  
Looking at my qualifications and the fact that even my shore duty has been operating in a plant I think that gave me an advantage over the other guys EXCEPT the guy who is currently a STA and I do have the Excelsior degree.  So I am not sure what they look at as far as all that is concerned.  I felt I did well in the leadership assessment and the BMST.  The interview with the plant OM, TM and HR manager seemed to be a smooth experience.  So I guess I shall see.............

[JustinHEMI05]

Beg to differ. I started out as an NLO, 5 years later I got a shot at license class.
I was assigned on shift with a myriad of Instant SROs.
Can't tell you how many times an Instant SRO handed the phone across the desk when an NLO called in with a plant problem.
Why? The SRO never had the NLOs job, felt the "ROs born from NLOs" were better qualified to handle it.
Steam Jet Air Ejectors troubles, a smoking CCW Pump bearing, and HV Switching Orders were examples of hand offs I received.

Instants have had trouble on walkthroughs, because they lack in plant experience. NLOs lived in the outside the MCR environs for a sustained period. I never saw a former NLO pooch an NRC Exam Walkthrough.
Wish I could say that about Instants.

I recognize I'm Of Topic, but plant experience at the NLO level was a definite building block in my career. If you don't have it - you may not even know what you missed.

Good for you. Its still not necessary to the right instant. 6 months of in field experience is plenty.

[JustinHEMI05]

Yeah that is disappointing. Sorry to hear that, keep us posted.

Exelon ...

[co60slr]

So apparently I have to await until perhaps sometime in May to find out if I am accepted for the job...and yet the class up begins June 1st.  This is pretty low ass S*** because I have to move at some point and giving people two weeks to move is pretty crappy.....So I pretty much am going to take these people as a NO and move on to the other interviews

My advice is to have 4-6 job offers on the table, sit down with your family (if applicable), and make a decision on which to accept.   Give yourself some choices....think outside the box...and most of all, have fun.   It's a great time to be transitioning from military to commercial power, but some HR Reps don't see it that way.  I'll resist the temptation to go off topic there.

Getting into a licensing class is all about timing for both you and the company.  The trainee has to be on site 6 months before starting GFES.   It's even less restrictive and a faster timeline for NLO trainees.  The company doesn't want to pay you to be on site for more than 6 months...that's just additional money wasted on someone that isn't qualified.   In your case, it sounds like HR is behind the curve, (oh wait...big surprise) they're waiting for other applicants, finalizing their offers and will then send out offers to their "top 10" (or whatever).   If people tell them no, then they'll go down their list...only to find in some/most (?) cases that the applicant has accepted a job elsewhere.

If you're very aggressive in this process, then you'll be getting calls for 6-12 months after you're in your new job.  In many cases, I told the HR Rep..."I would have loved to interview with you, but you took too long to respond to my application".

Separately, other threads have chosen to bash on Instant SROs.  In fact, we should simply start an Instant/Direct SRO child board on the forum and get everyone's facts, rants, opinions in one focus area.   My challenge to those ranters will remain consistent:  (1)  If your company doesn't "like" Instant SROs or otherwise views military nukes negatively, please post the name of your company here and save everyone the heartache of trying to apply at your company, (2) If your company has a training program that doesn't get an AUO, RO, SRO ready to execute that position skillfully and professionally (recognizing the different backgrounds) than your training program needs an INPO AFI...(oh wait...that is happening already across the country), and (3) saying that all Instant SROs are "broken" based on one watchstander at one plant on one shift is not very statistically significant.  I've seen the INPO daily downloads, I've seen Navy Incident Reports...I conclude that human beings sometime make mistakes from Sub COs to AUOs.  Managing human error is a very difficult and important aspect to our industry.   So, once you hire a Navy Nuke, he/she is YOURS, not the Navy's.  If you can't grasp that concept, then you're headed down the road of TMI where a Navy Nuke was licensed into the chair after what seems to be a "familiarization course" compared to today's standards.  In short, if YOU think a licensed SRO is unqualified to stand watch than YOU have an unresolved, significant nuclear safety concern at your utility.

So bringing my lengthy post together for the original posters and others job searching:  it's a great time to transition from the NNPP especially if you have gathered the senior qualifications, experience, and maturity to be competitive in the commercial world.  If you get a chance to be an AUO (think ERS, AEA, and RT rolled into one watchstander), we all agree that "growing up" slowly is much better than the nearly impossible 18 month Direct SRO training program.  However, I'm seeing peers (20+ years Navy experience) get jobs in Operations Training, Quality Assurance, Maintenance Management, SRO Licensing, Direct Corporate Management jobs, etc. You most likely will NOT land in a geographical area of first choice, but everyone has been happy with the most important variables: job, local economy, post-Navy taxes, etc.

You need to NETWORK and most of all...have fun.  There is life after the Nuclear Navy and it's better than I expected!

Co60     

[deadspace1399]

I'm sure IF Exelon offers I will take it, but I guess my biggest frustration with the whole job process has been my interactions(Or lack there of) with HR(with most of the company's I've applied/interviewed with).....

As far as "networking" I've called a few guys I know who got out and have jobs in a few plants....one has a class up for SRO in November so I suppose if Exelon, TVA, and Crystal River(just applied) fall through I have yet another chance.

I also am interviewing in May for an engineering position that is for receipt inspection and supply.  Starts out at 76K plus overtime and the typical work schedule is Monday -Friday then the next week is Monday-Thursday.  The job is in MA...most of my co-workers say this is the job they would take, but I still feel I LOVE ops and I really want to take on the challenge of SRO now to prove to myself that I can do it.

So I am looking and trying to minimize my frustrations and keep it fun....I am not tied to locations so it certainly helps!
Thank you all for your Posts and I will keep updating....this is kinda a cool way to see the time line for a Navy Nuke getting out.

[deadspace1399]

Hmmmmmmm,.....

You know how every time you turn around the Navy is completely mucked up?!?!?!?!?

So is the rest of the world,....

LOL yea well I know the rest of the world isn't perfect but hey.....at least I don't have to go back out to sea ever again unless I want to take a cruise 

[Preciousblue1965]

Why operate a plant when you can be the one who signs off for building one?  I am finally certified to do things that even Broadzilla can't do.  It is a lot of paperwork and training, but how many people in the world get to be the final signature on a nuclear power plant?

[Gamecock]

Why operate a plant when you can be the one who signs off for building one?  I am finally certified to do things that even Broadzilla can't do.  It is a lot of paperwork and training, but how many people in the world get to be the final signature on a nuclear power plant?

Doesn't seem like you have much work right now.

[fiveeleven]

  I am finally certified to do things that even Broadzilla cant do.

After perusing this site for these many years, this my friends, is a feat equal in magnitude only to the greatest achievements, here to date, known by mankind. Understanding fission, chipping out of a trap filled with lunar sand, pulling rods on the sun, and the list goes on, bounded only by infinity. Can I get the study material you used to get this sig.? Being dink on this qual. is no longer an option.
MM2/ELT 1980-1984 USS NIMITZ CVN-68.  BOHICA

[co60slr]

Why operate a plant when you can be the one who signs off for building one?  I am finally certified to do things that even Broadzilla can't do.  It is a lot of paperwork and training, but how many people in the world get to be the final signature on a nuclear power plant?

I have no idea what this post means.   What are you certified to do?  My understanding is that the "final signature" is the one from the NRC Region on the bottom of the facility's license application.   Are you talking about a QA inspector position?  Licensing position?

It did get me contemplating/comparing to the Navy NEWCON process.   Even there, while there's an exponential number of "final signatures" on everything from welds to initial crit, I've never heard of the "ultimate final signature".  Perhaps the SECNAV's authority to Commission the vessel?

Interesting...sorry, off topic though.


Co60

[HydroDave63]

but how many people in the world get to be the final signature on a nuclear power plant?

Wouldn't that be the mail room clerk who signs for the Registered Mail from NRC with the final approval paperwork inside? 

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok for clarification purposes, when the plant is finally completed and tested, the Owner has a sheet of paper that has to be filled out called an N-3.  It basically says that all the paperwork is in order and that every component has been tested and has all the required documentation associated with it.  After the Owner signs this sheet, an certified Authorized Nuclear Inspector must countersign saying that everything is up to snuff with ASME Code.  That is the Final Signature for construction of the plant with regards to documentation.  The plant isn't considered to be certified to ASME Section III until the ANI signs off the N-3.  After that, it is all operations paperwork.

[co60slr]

Ok for clarification purposes, when the plant is finally completed and tested, the Owner has a sheet of paper that has to be filled out called an N-3.  It basically says that all the paperwork is in order and that every component has been tested and has all the required documentation associated with it.  After the Owner signs this sheet, an certified Authorized Nuclear Inspector must countersign saying that everything is up to snuff with ASME Code.  That is the Final Signature for construction of the plant with regards to documentation.  The plant isn't considered to be certified to ASME Section III until the ANI signs off the N-3.  After that, it is all operations paperwork.

Congrats on the new certification then.  I'm not familiar with the cert/training process, but many Navy QAI's have posted asking how their quals translate.  Perhaps a thread for our "Getting Out" folks on how to pursue that qual one day if desired and/or if any Navy QA experience translates to commercial?

Also, do I read in your post that Operations signs....AFTER you?   You mean....at a certain nuclear plant, a certain Shift Manager might have to sign after your "Final Signature"?   <grin>

Co60

[Preciousblue1965]

Congrats on the new certification then.  I'm not familiar with the cert/training process, but many Navy QAI's have posted asking how their quals translate.  Perhaps a thread for our "Getting Out" folks on how to pursue that qual one day if desired and/or if any Navy QA experience translates to commercial?

Also, do I read in your post that Operations signs....AFTER you?   You mean....at a certain nuclear plant, a certain Shift Manager might have to sign after your "Final Signature"?   <grin>

Co60

No, the ANI is the final signature for the N-3.  Once it is signed by the ANI then the plant is considered OK for ops as long as they have their operating license or COL.  After the plant is considered built, it falls under Section XI and the ANI has to have the I endorsement(thus ANII for inservice).  Really neat field to get into.  Learn more about welding and design of nuclear power plants every day. 

[deadspace1399]

Well I fly out to NC on Wednesday night....Thursday morning is the POSS and interview for the NLO job for Shearan Harris with Progress Energy...should be interesting....still no word yet from Exelon

[Creeker]

Good luck in New Hill...   Shearon Harris was the first place I worked when coming out of HS back in 82.  Worked for Davis Electrical, then Daniels.  I still have a belt buckle someplace that shows 2 units on it.

Now, if I were in your shoes....  As young as you are, and with the career you have ahead of you, I'd do a couple years as an NLO, then go to class.  I know, it's a short term financial sacrifice, but if you are looking to start at a plant and make a career there... Not hop about the industry, and you're looking for a warmer climate (Great lakes and beaches and mountains in NC), then take the time to build a solid foundation as an NLO.  You have a great pedigree, and the degree.  If you build your reputation as a solid NLO, you'll have no problem getting into class.  They want several things in licensed operators...  Leadership capability; calm, conservative decision making ability... and someone that they have a good degree of confidence that they will make it through class.  Being an NLO for awhile will increase your chance of success in class, teach you a lot about the plant and it's procedures which will be very useful when you're in the control room, and will build strong contacts with the operators which will be useful when you're behind the desk.

That's my 2 cents... Best of luck in your new career, wherever it takes you!

Bill

[deadspace1399]

Good luck in New Hill...   Shearon Harris was the first place I worked when coming out of HS back in 82.  Worked for Davis Electrical, then Daniels.  I still have a belt buckle someplace that shows 2 units on it.

Now, if I were in your shoes....  As young as you are, and with the career you have ahead of you, I'd do a couple years as an NLO, then go to class.  I know, it's a short term financial sacrifice, but if you are looking to start at a plant and make a career there... Not hop about the industry, and you're looking for a warmer climate (Great lakes and beaches and mountains in NC), then take the time to build a solid foundation as an NLO.  You have a great pedigree, and the degree.  If you build your reputation as a solid NLO, you'll have no problem getting into class.  They want several things in licensed operators...  Leadership capability; calm, conservative decision making ability... and someone that they have a good degree of confidence that they will make it through class.  Being an NLO for awhile will increase your chance of success in class, teach you a lot about the plant and it's procedures which will be very useful when you're in the control room, and will build strong contacts with the operators which will be useful when you're behind the desk.

That's my 2 cents... Best of luck in your new career, wherever it takes you!

Bill

I thank you for your input ....its certainly one way to look at it as a career path choice for a more solid base....We shall see what is offered and what I accept I suppose......

[deadspace1399]

Well I finished the POSS and interview today AND got the JOB offer!  Right now Progress Energy and the people at Shearan Harris have pretty much been the most straight forward...no waiting game like Exelon, and well TVA isn't returning calls on the SRO interviews....so I pretty much think this is going to be the route I take and I think when I go for RO and SRO it will make me all the better for it.

[deadspace1399]

Well I start June 1st, so I have the whole month of May to get it together....today I checked out on terminal leave and found a secret bonus...navy didn't pay me sea pay for 2 years and 2 months so I get a small kicker in pay for that!  This combined with getting the NLO job I feel great and can't wait to hit the the plant running and start preparing for RO/SRO with my NLO skills I will learn

[JustinHEMI05]

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!

[deadspace1399]

Yea life can be such a precious gift......makes ya want to call up mom and dad and thank em....
Anyways here is how I envision myself trying to be successful in civilian power...

[cbguy]

deadspace just a word advice.  You need to consider the tax rate for the state that the job is in.

MA, NJ, NY, CA & OH are among he worst in the country.

Why would you even consider been a SRO?

Many techs make more money than you have mentioned that you were offered.  I just had an interview for a planning job and was told that with OT the low person in the department made $125 K and the top person made $200 K.

Not trying to rain on your parade but who wants all that responsibility? Besides you get to go home at night and leave the job at work.

[deadspace1399]

deadspace just a word advice.  You need to consider the tax rate for the state that the job is in.

MA, NJ, NY, CA & OH are among he worst in the country.

Why would you even consider been a SRO?

Many techs make more money than you have mentioned that you were offered.  I just had an interview for a planning job and was told that with OT the low person in the department made $125 K and the top person made $200 K.

Not trying to rain on your parade but who wants all that responsibility? Besides you get to go home at night and leave the job at work.

Well that is one factor as to why I accepted NC....much easier on the taxes than the states that were listed....
I agree with Marssim the NLO/RO/SRO provides something a bit more stable to always have.
Plus I have heard that while your a tech and your at home at night you can get called in because something breaks....so I've heard that at times in a crunch your life can actually be worse.

I like ops and if I choose to I think I could probably make a successful cross over to maintenance but first I want to work on the quals and hopefully license. 

[JustinHEMI05]

I like ops 

I am going to be interested in keeping up to date on this over the next couple of years. 

Naw, you made the right choice for what you need/desire IMO. I am sorry Exelon.....


Well anyway, welcome to the club.

[deadspace1399]

I am going to be interested in keeping up to date on this over the next couple of years. 

Naw, you made the right choice for what you need/desire IMO. I am sorry Exelon.....


Well anyway, welcome to the club.

Thanks and yes I will keep a time line that I can feed people for process of NLO to RO to SRO.  Feels great to belong to commercial nuclear!
I think this will make me a stronger SRO and supervisor once I finally make it

[rlbinc]

While working at Progress Energy remember these critical translations -

"86 Lockout" = nuisance relay which may be reset to re-energize a faulted bus
"Secondary Fire" = something that happens after an 86 Lockout is reset on a faulted bus
"Thanks for the feedback" = your comment is not appreciated nor valued
"ZTEF" = Zero Tolerance for Expenditure of Funds (not Equipment Failure)

Your favorite will be
"Employee Bonus" = fund source for emergent and unpredictable hurricane repairs (NC, FL - who knew...)

You're going to love this job.

[deadspace1399]

While working at Progress Energy remember these critical translations -

"86 Lockout" = nuisance relay which may be reset to re-energize a faulted bus
"Secondary Fire" = something that happens after an 86 Lockout is reset on a faulted bus
"Thanks for the feedback" = your comment is not appreciated nor valued
"ZTEF" = Zero Tolerance for Expenditure of Funds (not Equipment Failure)

Your favorite will be
"Employee Bonus" = fund source for emergent and unpredictable hurricane repairs (NC, FL - who knew...)

You're going to love this job.

Wow such angst....all I can say it will be 36516519849616516149498169191 8times better than what the Navy had in store for me......

[Ops Nub]

Ops is great, Did NLO for 18 months, now in an ILO class. Glad I didn't choose to do anything direct. Its not the same.

[JustinHEMI05]

With the training programs today, there is no need to go an NLO route (unless you don't think you can hack it instantly). In fact, the RO upgrades in my class said their NLO training did nothing for them.  And given how people move to others plants so much these days, it doesn't matter yet again. Of course, some people just can't cut it in license class no matter what. Those that can do it instantly....

[Contract SRO]

Things are changing but having been in the business for over 30 years, NOTHING replaces hands on experience in the plant your operating.  I do not mean you can not be good at what you do without it but with in the plant experience you can only be better.

[JustinHEMI05]

False. I can name several "hands on" SRO's that are probably the worst SROs at my plant.

Point is, for the right people, if you spend the 6 months on site in the field, that is plenty of "hands on" experience.

[Contract SRO]

Sounds good for your plant but having started as a non licensed operator during construction then licensing and becoming part of the original crew to start up the plant, then upgrading to SRO and later training RO's and SRO's for 15 years.........there is a difference.  You are right in that there are duds in all of the paths to the control room but my comment was that the plant experience only makes you better.

[JustinHEMI05]

No one is digging the hole to build their plant.

[Duchess]

No one is digging the hole to build their plant.

What about this?

http://www.southerncompany.com/nuclearenergy/vogtle_units.aspx

That looks like a pretty big hole.

[HydroDave63]

You dare question JustinZilla ?!?   

[JustinHEMI05]

What about this?

http://www.southerncompany.com/nuclearenergy/vogtle_units.aspx

That looks like a pretty big hole.

You missed my point in my sarcastic response.

[JustinHEMI05]

You dare question JustinZilla ?!?  

Haha I am not even sure why I bother anymore.

[Contract SRO]

I am not trying to be difficult but I have learned that my OPINION is just that and even with a few years of experience behind me I still learn once in a while that my OPINION is not Perfect.  WOW hard to imagine.

With a little poking fun.........I am looking out the window at a hole that is about 90 feet deep being backfilled with "Q" dirt to the elevation that the Base Slab will be poured for the first new reactors in the United States.

I am pretty sure you are a talented, intelligent guy who has accomplished much with your Navy background and now your SRO.  Thanks for your service and and now with your license (and a little experience) you will probably be one of the best the industry has seen.

[JustinHEMI05]

I am not trying to be difficult but I have learned that my OPINION is just that and even with a few years of experience behind me I still learn once in a while that my OPINION is not Perfect.  WOW hard to imagine.

With a little poking fun.........I am looking out the window at a hole that is about 90 feet deep being backfilled with "Q" dirt to the elevation that the Base Slab will be poured for the first new reactors in the United States.

I am pretty sure you are a talented, intelligent guy who has accomplished much with your Navy background and now your SRO.  Thanks for your service and and now with your license (and a little experience) you will probably be one of the best the industry has seen.

Yes no worries. I was just poking fun saying that no one is bringing the kind of experience you had to the table anymore.