A few questions

[JonK]

So, I'm leaving for boot soon (less than a month), and I'm wondering about a few things. I know the Navy pays for eye surgery, but I think I might pay for it myself. Would I be able to get it while I'm still in Nuke school? I'd sort of like to get it done as soon as I can. I hate wearing glasses. The other question I have is in regards to money. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I should do my banking? Basically, should I keep it at a local bank that I'll probably be near one week a year, or should I go with NFCU or the Armed Forces bank? I did some searches, but I haven't turned up much. This site has been very informative so I thought it'd be the best place to ask.

[Gamecock]

Go get an account with NFCU whenever you can.

-and-

You won't have time to get eye surgery while you are in training.  I had several of my guys get it done on the CVN, so it can be done once you get to the fleet and get qualified.

Cheers,
GC

[NukeLDO]

USAA is another good bank that caters to the military.  No ATM fees, cash back on purchases, all on-line and mobile phone banking.

As for the surgery, I'd be careful going outside the Navy to do it.  Best to consult with the Navy docs before...all kinds of complications can arise, and you'll want to know if the Navy will take care of you if those happen.  Once you've signed those enlistment papers, you, and your eyes belong to the Navy...and Navy medicine.  Going outside Navy channels on your own can get you in trouble.  Best to have a referral/permission in hand before using a civilian physician, regardless of whether you pay for it or not.  But recognize you won't get a referral for something the Navy can do.  Ditto to what GC said about the timing.

[JonK]

Thanks. I was planning on getting the ok before I did it even if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket. I just thought of another question. I hear we don't get to use the M-16 in boot anymore. Is there anyway to still learn to shoot it properly maybe even test for marksmanship? It seems weird to me not to be qualified even if it the likely hood of me needing to ever use such a weapon given my rate is almost zero.

[crusemm]

Banks: NFCU while in school and on your ship.  They have branches or representatives at almost every base and port you go to.  USAA once you are married and your spouse can take care of the finances

Eyes: DO NOT get the surgery on your own unless you are prepared to deal with any complications out of your own pocket and risk the potential loss of your school.  A few things to think about-the Navy performs PRK, not LASIK because with LASIK, the flap that they peel back can come undone and expose the cornea if you take a hard enough blow to the head.  PRK recovery takes at least two weeks, the first five days of which you are knocked out with Oxy-Codone.  No surgery until you get to the fleet.  I don't know about the rules for carriers, but on subs you are not allowed to get the surgery unless the ship is in an extended availability (at least a year) and your 6-8 month recovery will be completed prior to deploying.

M-16: Don't know about shooting in boot camp, but the only time we ever shot the M-16 was for required gun quals.  And then it was a major pain in the backside, trying to fit that in with all of the other required stuff.  You can ask, but unless you are fully qualified you will probably be told no, you have more important things to do.  The exception is if you go IA (i.e. go to Afghanistan or Iraq) then you will probably have a chance to shoot, a lot.

Good luck,
-Matt

[01changeup]

Wait to get to the fleet to get your eyes done.  Sometimes there is a waiting list, but other times there isn't much of one; it all depends on your luck.  I know quite a few guys who have had PRK done, and not one of them has had a problem or a bad experience.  As for the rifle, there is a place (or there was 7 years ago when I went through the pipeline) out in town where you can go shoot it and qualify for your pistol and rifle ribbons or medals.  It is done on a Saturday and Sunday morning, early.  It shouldn't interfere with your schooling too much unless you are WAY behind and need that time to get caught up.  As for the banking question.  I have a hometown bank, and it has never been an issue for me.  However, they are a large bank.  If you have Bank of Podunk, that may be an issue.  NFCU is always there, like others have said.  They do have some customer service issues at times, but all in all are not a bad choice.  You will have to make this choice on day one or two of boot camp, so decide before you go what you want to do.  If you choose NFCU, they will be able to set that up for you there.  DON'T EVER choose Armed Forces Bank.  I know a couple of people who did, and they both wished they hadn't, and changed the first chance that they could.  Good luck, and don't do anything stupid!
V/R
01changeup

[NukeLDO]

A few things to think about-the Navy performs PRK, not LASIK because with LASIK, the flap that they peel back can come undone and expose the cornea if you take a hard enough blow to the head.  PRK recovery takes at least two weeks, the first five days of which you are knocked out with Oxy-Codone.  No surgery until you get to the fleet. 

Not true anymore.  The Navy now performs LASIK.  Details available from the BUMED/NAVMED website.  Here's a C&P from that site:

REFRACTIVE SURGERY INFORMATION :
Laser eye surgery i.e. PRK, LASIK is currently being offered only for active duty, at Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX: Portsmouth, VA;
Bethesda, MD; San Diego, CA; Camp LeJeune, NC; Jacksonville, FL; and Bremerton, WA.
In order to be considered for surgery, a full eye exam with the/an Optometry Clinic is required.  No contact lens wear for 30 days prior.
You must also be over 21, have a stable prescription, and have a prescription within the defined limits.

[JustinHEMI05]

I recommend anyone considering lasik, for reasons other than absolute military need, visit http://www.lasik-flap.com/forum/ and consider my advice that seeing an alarm clock without your glasses isn't worth permanently damaging your eyes.

If you would like to know my story, PM me as this is off topic.

[JonK]

Yeah, I didn't want to have lasik done anyway. PRK was what I was looking at. I've heard far too many horror stories associated with lasik. Thanks for all of the advice.

[DDMurray]

I have accounts at USAA and NFCU.  While I was in NFCU was good because they were on every base.  Since I got out (I don't live near a NFCU) I prefer USAA because they refund your ATM fees that other banks charge and I can deposit checks using my scanner.  If the Volcker rule stays in the Bank reform deal, it could impact USAA greatly so I would recommend NFCU while you are in.

[cheme09]

NFCU doesn't charge ATM fees at 7-11.  I'm pretty sure it applies to all 7-11 locations, but it may be just a regional thing around here (Virginia).  Anyone care to confirm this?

[co60slr]

NFCU doesn't charge ATM fees at 7-11.  I'm pretty sure it applies to all 7-11 locations, but it may be just a regional thing around here (Virginia).  Anyone care to confirm this?

I believe that NFCU has co-ops with a few institutions that offer "no fee" transactions (e.g., 7-11, certain credit unions, etc).

Personally, I've had NFCU for 20 years, but lately they've let me down.  They couldn't compete with new mortgage interest rates or new car interest rates.   When challenged they said "Sorry".   Bank of America came through with flying colors.

USAA has an amazing new car buying program though.   "No hassle" fixed price program that gets you into a car for usually less than dealer invoice.  Print out the program info, take it to a dealer, walk away with your new car.

As with all things, shop around.  The market is always in flux and this informations will probably be outdated in 12 months.

[superbee]

Yeah, I didn't want to have lasik done anyway. PRK was what I was looking at. I've heard far too many horror stories associated with lasik. Thanks for all of the advice.

I was on a waiting list for about a year and a half, but ultimately got my PRK done by the Navy.  The doc in charge kept talking about their new LASIK equipment, though.  I was the only person out of my group to not get LASIK, due to my eyes already being somewhat naturally dry.

[skin]

Thanks. I was planning on getting the ok before I did it even if I had to pay for it out of my own pocket. I just thought of another question. I hear we don't get to use the M-16 in boot anymore. Is there anyway to still learn to shoot it properly maybe even test for marksmanship? It seems weird to me not to be qualified even if it the likely hood of me needing to ever use such a weapon given my rate is almost zero.

When you get to NNPTC, MWR offers monthly trips to get rifle and pistol quals.  However, it is $75 and that does not include any instruction or practice time.  You show up and just do the qualification course, so a lot of people leave without a ribbon.

[Harley Rider]

Yeah, I didn't want to have lasik done anyway. PRK was what I was looking at. I've heard far too many horror stories associated with lasik. Thanks for all of the advice.

The Navy PRK, while good once completed lasted only ten years for me. Understand I had it done at 35 so older eyes should be figured into that equation. On a side note the Portsmouth Naval Hospital Optometry clinic is probably one of the best care clinics I have ever stepped foot in. They do an outstanding job in every aspect,,,,well at least 10 years ago they did,,,

[Yaeger]

I had LASIK, it only lasted about 4 years. I got it somewhat early (22 years old), my eyes might not have stopped growing, and now my vision is at exactly what it was prior to LASIK.

On the down side, you have all that extra medical paperwork which adds months to any military paperwork you need processed through medical. Also, my eyes have never been the same. They're more sensitive to wind, dry out faster, and seem to have an uneven distribution of tears when my eyes dry out. Bright lights at night are a little more blurry also.

All-in-all, I'd think twice about getting eye surgery.

[crewjobs]

Hi, from the date of your original post  it looks like you are already in basic training now, good luck to you.

My son enlisted on 4/1 for the Nuclear Field and entered the delayed entry program.  I called up NFCU and explained his situation, and they said sure no problem, he is already eligible to open an account now (before he takes the second enlistment oath for regular Navy and ships to boot camp):  there is no need for someone in DEP to wait until boot camp to open a NFCU account, or wait until they go on active duty.     

Once he opens his own account I can then open a NFCU account of my own too (parents of NFCU members can open accounts too).  We can then set up a joint savings account that I can deposit money so he will have access to it during his school in Charleston.   Apparently a member can have more than one savings account, so we can use a joint account so I can set up a little nest egg for him, that is separate from his checking account and other savings account.   I realize by then he will be on the Navy payroll but it is for my peace of mind to start his naval career with some money in the bank.

Just thought I would share this bit of info with the other forum members, or any other parents reading this, and  hope it is useful.

[proud dad]

 Crewjobs,
 First I would like to thank your son for his future service.
 Just an Idea,not meaning to give unasked for advice.
 Set up an account with automatic deposits from his Navy paycheck and matched by you. Gives a good incentive for the new sailor away from home to save for the future. After six years that will be good nest egg.
 Alan

[co60slr]

Just an Idea,not meaning to give unasked for advice.  Set up an account with automatic deposits from his Navy paycheck and matched by you. Gives a good incentive for the new sailor away from home to save for the future. After six years that will be good nest egg.

Nuke Dads,

I'll throw in $0.25 on this one.

Personally, I took a LOT of pride in "cutting the apron strings" and standing on my own two feet 20+ years ago as a young 18 y/o ready to take on the world.  As a young E-3/E-4 I struggled to pay a few bills but I always managed to balance the budget and live within my means.  Best thing that ever happened to me!  Then, when the nuke bonuses started rolling in after training, I went on to saving/investing.   I didn't need any help from my parents...and didn't want any help.   Looking back, I have a LOT of pride in standing on my own two feet, especially given the thousands of dollars the NNPP throws at Nuclear sailors.  So, I'm not certain that adding to his/her paychecks is really necessary to ensure they have "spending money".

However, what happens after the HUGE bonuses given to 21 y/o's is this:  sports cars, high-end computers, etc.  Good financial advice would be to challenge them to avoid the $50K sports cars (and $20K credit card debt) and start saving for their future.   Since the Navy Thrift Savings Plan is a non-matching $401K, perhaps you guys could "price match" their savings/investments into financial instruments that cannot be used for new cars.   What seems to be lost in this new generation is the dedication and drive to save for their future, much unlike what our parents/grandparents did.

Separately, just because NFCU has the word "Navy" in it, that does not make it an "official helping hand for the US Navy".  In 2010, these smaller credit unions are under a conservative crunch...much so that their commercial counterparts.  I recently purchased a new vehicle and NFCU could not touch the interest rate that a conventional bank provided me.  Likewise with my mortgage.   Get the free NFCU account, but continue shopping around when financial instruments are needed and challenge NFCU when they don't offer the best deals that an active duty sailor deserves.   

It's easy for businesses to say "thank you for your military service", which seems to be a buzz phrase now.  Make them "show you the money" for your sons, who will be learning about the advanced financial aspects of life.

The pride you guys show in your "kids" is inspirational.  I can't wait to hear about the CPO Pinning ceremony or commissioning ceremony.  You think you're proud now?  Just wait! 

[spekkio]

What seems to be lost in this new generation is the dedication and drive to save for their future, much unlike what our parents/grandparents did.

Currently, inflation > interest on savings accounts. Investing is only really paying off if you get into more risky endeavors and know what you're doing.

[HydroDave63]

Currently, inflation > interest on savings accounts. Investing is only really paying off if you get into more risky endeavors and know what you're doing.

Things that have preserved wealth since the Book of Genesis....

[co60slr]

Currently, inflation > interest on savings accounts. Investing is only really paying off if you get into more risky endeavors and know what you're doing.

Thrift Savings Plan return:  +17% gain over the last 12 months.
Reference:  http://www.tsp.gov/rates/monthly-current.html

Here's the easy trick:  when you think the market is tanking, switch your TSP into a conservative Bond fund.   When the economy is about to rebound, shift back into small capital, etc (i.e., riskier funds).   

After the recession last year (negative growth for the country), the savings rates haven't caught up yet...for a variety of reasons that can be found in the financial circles of the Internet (i.e., off topic in Nukeworker).

If you're going to disagree with every post I make this week, you can save us and the readers time by providing a few references for your "facts", or contribute to the discussion by adding your perspective other than "I disagree" and walking away.

Co60

[DDMurray]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

As one who has spent a lifetime making poor financial decisions, I recommend you put your kids on the road to financial freedom starting by making them financially independent.  My recommendation is to buy them the book Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey.  I wish I had read it 15 years ago.

[crewjobs]

Thanks guys that is some really good advice about matching his Navy retirement account contributions instead of Dad just handing out money.   That makes a lot of sense.   We each  opened the NFCU accounts by phone last night, it was easy first they did his, then he sponsored me.    Thanks again.

[MMM]

Keep two things in mind about TSP.

The bad: First, past results don't guarantee future performance (or something like that). Second, the main reason for the 17% gain was due to the severe drop in the 12 months prior to that.

The good: I think the interest usually hangs out at about 10% though, so it is pretty solid. Since it is an automatic deduction, it's really easy to get in the habit of saving money right off the bat. It's also set up as a percent of base pay, so it increases with each pay raise, and can be set up to withdraw from bonuses and special pay as well.

Final note, remind your son that the sooner he starts saving for retirement, the more he'll have waiting. I think if you invest $3000 per year starting at 18 for 6 years ($18000 saved total) at 8% interest you will retire with about $1 million waiting. It might have been for up to 10 years, but you get the idea. God bless compound interest.

[MMM]

Here's a link to the spreadsheet for the last five years. http://www.tsp.gov/rates/monthly-tsp-factsheet.pdf

[spekkio]

Thrift Savings Plan return:  +17% gain over the last 12 months.
Reference:  http://www.tsp.gov/rates/monthly-current.html

Here's the easy trick:  when you think the market is tanking, switch your TSP into a conservative Bond fund.   When the economy is about to rebound, shift back into small capital, etc (i.e., riskier funds).  

After the recession last year (negative growth for the country), the savings rates haven't caught up yet...for a variety of reasons that can be found in the financial circles of the Internet (i.e., off topic in Nukeworker).

If you're going to disagree with every post I make this week, you can save us and the readers time by providing a few references for your "facts", or contribute to the discussion by adding your perspective other than "I disagree" and walking away.

Co60

Your post does not refute anything I said.

In order to get the 17% gains, you would have to be putting your money into one of the 3 riskier categories in TSP from March 2009 to present; these same riskier categories are the ones that lost 50% of their value in mid '08-early '09. So I stand by what I said: if you're going to dump money into a risky account and forget it, you are at a high risk of posting a loss. And if you put it in the safe accounts and/or savings accounts, you would have gained approximately 1-3% on your money, which is less than inflation. While I agree that it doesn't take an economic guru to shift money around depending on what you think the economy will do this month, TSP isn't the huge money-maker you make it out to be, and if you were to put $10,000 in a savings account to use it 5 years from now, it would be worth much less even after interest if current economic trends continue.

On another note, you shouldn't take disagreement so personally. I do not know you as a person, nor am I insulting your character.

[co60slr]

You make money by getting out before your fund tanks, and then getting back in when it recovers.    If you shifted your money out of riskier funds in 2008 and then put them right back in 2009, you would be in great shape.   Otherwise, you broke even.

Where did I say TSP was the greatest 401K fund out there?

I'm not taking anything personally.  I'm happy to help you out.  :-)

[HydroDave63]

Although I do agree with ya 95% of the time....

You make money by getting out before your fund tanks, and then getting back in when it recovers.    If you shifted your money out of riskier funds in 2008 and then put them right back in 2009, you would be in great shape.   Otherwise, you broke even.

That's not good advice...how is someone going to get the premonition, Magic 8 Ball or remote viewing to know when their fund will tank??!? Even Bob Brinker's Markettimer wouldn't claim to tell exactly when to dump. Heck, I have even done as you said twice before, during the NASDAQ dump in 2000, and the March 2008 slide, but I'd never claim that I know for certain when someone else should make a huge portfolio move.

Using MMM's link above, one can find the 10 year compounded return on the TSP's rock solid G Fund was 4.62% . Not losing money is another form of making money. At least that's what Warren Buffett had to say about it.

[co60slr]

Although I do agree with ya 95% of the time....

That's not good advice...how is someone going to get the premonition, Magic 8 Ball or remote viewing to know when their fund will tank??!? Even Bob Brinker's Markettimer wouldn't claim to tell exactly when to dump. Heck, I have even done as you said twice before, during the NASDAQ dump in 2000, and the March 2008 slide, but I'd never claim that I know for certain when someone else should make a huge portfolio move.

Using MMM's link above, one can find the 10 year compounded return on the TSP's rock solid G Fund was 4.62% . Not losing money is another form of making money. At least that's what Warren Buffett had to say about it.

As Marissm said, there is no risk-free investment.   As Spekkio illustrated, if you're making 4.0% interest during 4.0% inflation, then you're breaking even.  My ONLY point is do NOT fall in love with your investments.   When I shift, when you shift, when Marissm shifts investments is the interesting part.

Using the DJIA as an example, take a look at 2000-2004.
http://www.google.com/finance/historical?cid=983582&startdate=Jan+1%2C+2000&enddate=Jul+6%2C+2004
When did I shift money, when did you shift money, when did Marissm shift money?   If we all had shifted from the riskier small capital funds in 2000-2001 era...maybe at a predetermined "drop" in the DJIA after one quarter of data, and then shift back when we thought we hit "rock bottom" (circa 2003), then 2004 was a pretty good year.

What happened here?  Everyone fell in love with their high tech/Internet investments. 

Same with the next dip.  If you called it around July 4th, 2008, and then shifted back at the "valley", then you would have minimized your loss and maximized (17%) your gains in 2009-2010.
http://www.google.com/finance/historical?cid=983582&startdate=Jan+1%2C+2008&enddate=Jul+6%2C+2010

What happened here?  Well, a mess that continues to be debated daily in the GM: PolySci section.  I'm not going there.  :-)

"Buy Low, Sell High" isn't bad advice...it's how the game is played!   However, I think we can all agree that in the end it feels like you're in Las Vegas as you try to predict the peaks and valleys.   I know some people that waited until the DJIA was headlines news (i.e., record lows) to shift their money.  Then, they checked their 401K every day and wrung their hands.  Finally, when the market recovered, they put their money back.  That is backwards...Sell Low, Buy High? 

That's also what happened to real estate in 2005 to date.  How many Navy sailors bought in 2005 and took a huge loss when the detailer said they HAD to transfer in 3 years?   I think the bubble was obvious (and I rented at the time).  Prices are likely to return to what they have for 100 years, an overall modest increase:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeqrguz/housingbubble/

So, I don't think there's a right and wrong here...although I'm disappointed I'm 5% over towards your bad side. <grin>  These paragraphs are very easy to write...in hindsight.  But what about 2010 to 2015?  Great question.  There are different investment strategies though as you illustrate a very conservative one, which is not bad advice at all.

In any event, I wish the Navy did a better job of educating young sailors before putting $50K in their hands.  I think we can all agree that a 2010 sports car is NOT an investment!  :-)  In fact, a graph showing the loss you take during an average deployment (not using the car, making high payments) would be educational.

[HydroDave63]

So, I don't think there's a right and wrong here...although I'm disappointed I'm 5% over towards your bad side. <grin>  These paragraphs are very easy to write...in hindsight.  But what about 2010 to 2015?  Great question.  There are different investment strategies though as you illustrate a very conservative one, which is not bad advice at all.

That will be a great idea for a GM:General thread on investment strategies/picks for 2010-2015! As long as it doesn't get TOO silly we should be fine...see ya there!

[LaFeet]

NFCU doesn't charge ATM fees at 7-11.  I'm pretty sure it applies to all 7-11 locations, but it may be just a regional thing around here (Virginia).  Anyone care to confirm this?

Additionally, if you go to almost any Credit Union the ATM fees are waived for NFCU accounts.  I still have my NFCU as my primary account even though I dont work near them or have one at home.

[spekkio]

Co,

I agree that knowing when to buy and when to sell is key to making money; where I disagree is that people who are Navy Nukes generally don't have business degrees, and even the ones who do generally do not have the time to spend on following and analyzing market trends accurately enough to make calculated risky investments rather than just plain risky investments. Then there are underway periods where you are almost completely isolated from the market. I bet there's a Sailor underwater somewhere who has bought stock in BP and has no idea they are hemorrhaging oil into the Gulf. Hell, even people who are paid to follow market trends get it wrong at times.

You point at many situations where people could have mitigated loss if they knew that the market area was going to crash; the problem is that no one knows exactly when this is going to happen. Once it starts happening, then people have to fight the psychology that "I had X, now I have Y, I'll leave it in in case I come back to X and then cash out." It's the same reason why people can go to a casino, win a couple grand, and still walk out broke.

A $50k sports car is not an investment by any means, but if one were to take advantage of the 0% interest deals offered in '08 and bought one instead of buying stock that lost 1/3-1/2 its value or placing it in a savings account so that it can lose value due to inflation, the sports car was the smarter choice.

[DDMurray]

A $50,000 sports bought bin 2008 car will be worth about 15,000 in five years.   If you took the payments on the 0% loan of $50,000 ($833.33) and put them in an average mutual fund (8% gain)for 5 years and then stopped, after 25 years you'd have $342,424. 

[DDMurray]

A $50,000 sports bought bin 2008 car will be worth about 15,000 in five years.   If you took the payments on the 0% loan of $50,000 ($833.33) and put them in an average mutual fund (8% gain)for 5 years and then stopped, after 25 years you'd have $342,424. 

Oops, the actual number is based on a lump sum of 50,000 invested.  If he invested 10,000 a year for five years and stopped, then waited 20 more years, he'd have around $295,313.

In any case, the important things are:
1.  Start early
2.  Pick a low risk fund with proven performance (5-10 years minimum)
3.  Pay yourself instead of the banks or department stores
4.  Learn from others' mistakes (like me)

[co60slr]

A $50k sports car is not an investment by any means, but if one were to take advantage of the 0% interest deals offered in '08 and bought one instead of buying stock that lost 1/3-1/2 its value or placing it in a savings account so that it can lose value due to inflation, the sports car was the smarter choice.

As suggested/authored by HydroDave, I replied in the GM:General section under the newly established thread discussing "Investments: 2010-2015."

The bad news Spekkio is that our advice is no longer free.  It'll cost you $36.50/year to see the reply in the Gold Member Section.   However, you'll still have $49,963.50 for your sports car.     

For our OP's here Getting In, a thought:  listen to Derek (et al).   Start early, do your own research, figure out what works best for you.   Most of you will likely end up with a sports car and then regret it in 20 years.   This seems to be the "way of the Nuke".   

Co58