Navy Nuke opportunities, On carrier Degree?

[RadiationSponge]

Alright, I have a Bachelor's of Science in Biochemistry, I scored a 95 AFQT on the ASVAB. Just waiting for a Medical Waiver on my face (Titanium screws, Reconstructive surgery).

I want to be a Nuke, My plan is to goto power school and possibly get picked as an ELT.


What sorts of classes on-board are you able to take? Can I work on a masters in anything while on board or is it all online Bachelor's degrees?

What certifications are there? Ive heard EWS and EOOW but what do they stand for and how do you get them?



I plan to go enlisted for a year or so to learn the job and the drop my OCS packet so I am not a retarded Officer barking orders I know nothing about (My buddies from the army call them Overpai privates).


Whats the salaries of nukes while at sea and what not? both officer and enlisted






Here is a link for how everything is looking in the field of nuclear, for ex-nukes and future nukes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/30/tech/main6447427.shtml

Basically, 100k+ jobs will probably be supremely realistic in 5-7 years.





Thanks for any answers, if these questions have been answered already just say so and Ill hunt them down cause I do not have time right now to go on a forum expedition.

[KUrunner]

What sort of degree are you looking at getting?  If you want to get your Masters in Biochemistry, you won't get it while in the Navy since it's very research/teaching heavy.

I'm going to ignore the retarded officer comment as you don't have to be enlisted to do the job.  However, the chances of OCS are very slim.  Lots of people putting in packets, not many spots.  If you enlist, you better make sure you're willing to be enlisted for 6 years.

Do a google search for military pay charts.  DFAS has a nice little pdf file with base and sea pay.

[sovbob]

I want to be a Nuke, My plan is to goto power school and possibly get picked as an ELT.

I hope you're OK with the distinct possibility of getting something else.  Approximately 50% of all nukes are MM (conventional and ELT).  Would you be upset if they made you an electrician?  Would you be upset if you were a conventional MM?

What sorts of classes on-board are you able to take? Can I work on a masters in anything while on board or is it all online Bachelor's degrees?

I'm not sure.  I was on a fast-attack submarine, so I can't give a good answer.  There are plenty of carrier guys on this forum, maybe they can give you a better answer.

What certifications are there? Ive heard EWS and EOOW but what do they stand for and how do you get them?

Here's a couple links.  These don't explain all the watchstations, but at least it's a start.
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23541.msg121894.html#msg121894
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,18542.msg118567.html#msg118567

I plan to go enlisted for a year or so to learn the job and the drop my OCS packet so I am not a retarded Officer barking orders I know nothing about (My buddies from the army call them Overpai privates).

While I admire your desire to not be retarded, I am going to STRONGLY advise you not to go enlisted for this reason.  New officers (even prior enlisted) aren't really given any responsibility until they're O-3.  Besides, if you drop your OCS chit after one year of enlisted, you won't have gotten any sea time (which is where you lose your retardedness).  And as an added bonus, you'll get to do nuclear power school AGAIN!

In order to get the extra pay (as an O-1E, O-2E, O-3E) you need to have done at least 4 years enlisted.

So yeah.  I'd say just go directly to officer.  Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Whats the salaries of nukes while at sea and what not? both officer and enlisted

2010 Military Pay Tables, compliments of the Defense Finance and Accounting Service
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010WebPayTable34.pdf

Thanks for any answers, if these questions have been answered already just say so and Ill hunt them down cause I do not have time right now to go on a forum expedition.

I would go on a rant about you kids these days...but I don't have time right now to open up that can of worms.

[JsonD13]

To really answer your questions now,

1)  On a sub you probably won't find any classes being offered, on a carrier you might find some PACE courses (I'll let you look up the acronym), but nothing that is a full degree program on board.  You will find all classes offered on board are at the undergraduate or high school level.  A master's degree is usually obtained through distance learning on an online platform (I recieved one while I was active and was actively working on another when I got out).  Anything that is research heavy will be a no, due to the fact that you will not be conducting any experiements on the ship.

2) EWS = Engineering Watch Supervisor.  This is an enlisted qualification that basically runs the plant outside of the control room (maneuvering or EOS).  Usually you need to be qualified everything for your rate in the Navy, and be pretty senior or one hell of a hot runner in order to be selected to qualify.  First classes normally are required to qualify this on a carrier.  EOOW = Engineering Officer of the Watch (PPWO or Propulsion Plant Watch Officer on carriers).  This is an officer qualification that as a junior officer you would be required to qualify.  This position runs the plant from inside the control room.  Very senior enlisted (E-8 usually, sometimes a really good E-7) might be selected to qualify this on a carrier.

3)  Unlike the previous poster, I agree that some enlisted experience will help you out tremendously, but only if you do at least 3 years enlisted first.  Of course though, once you are in as an enlisted, your chances are lower for OCS than if you go straight for that.

4)  Pay tables can be confusing, but as an enlisted, take that base pay, add special duty assignment pay (150/mo.), sea pay (for the number of years at sea), BAH (you'll get this if you are married) and take out your taxes.  Just remember, nukes in the Navy are underpaid.

5)  100K jobs are a reality now if you are a civilian at a nuke plant and do not mind overtime.

Jason

[spekkio]

I plan to go enlisted for a year or so to learn the job and the drop my OCS packet so I am not a retarded Officer barking orders I know nothing about (My buddies from the army call them Overpai privates).

After 1 year of being enlisted, you will still be in the training pipeline for nuke.

If you think that the 2nd year of being enlisted, which will be spent as an FSA (submarines) and doing low-level tasks and cleaning for your division while trying to get qualified (either platform), is going to help you learn the job of an officer, you are sorely mistaken. And if you think that an officer's job is merely to "bark orders" at enlisted, you are also sorely mistaken. I also disagree with the assertion of getting no real responsibility until LT. Every command is different, though, so YMMV.

The military is no different than any other working environment; there are people who are good at their jobs, people who suck at their jobs, and everything inbetween. Your friends apparently had bad experiences with the officer corps in the Army, or you didn't get the joke. Either way, you're using someone else's opinion on a subject you clearly have no knowledge about to be prejudiced against an entire group.

There are many reasons to enlist vs. officer if you want to go that route; using it as a platform to be a better officer isn't one of them.

[DDMurray]

I want to be a Nuke, My plan is to goto power school and possibly get picked as an ELT.

What sorts of classes on-board are you able to take? Can I work on a masters in anything while on board or is it all online Bachelor's degrees?

Previously answered in the forum.

What certifications are there?  Ive heard EWS and EOOW but what do they stand for and how do you get them?

Previously answered in the forum.

I plan to go enlisted for a year or so to learn the job and the drop my OCS packet so I am not a retarded Officer barking orders I know nothing about (My buddies from the army call them Overpai privates).

I don't who you offended more- Officers or retarded people.

Whats the salaries of nukes while at sea and what not? both officer and enlisted

Previously answered in the forum.

Thanks for any answers, if these questions have been answered already just say so and Ill hunt them down cause I do not have time right now to go on a forum expedition.

But you want us to take the time to answer your questions?  Sounds like something a retarded officer would do.

[RadiationSponge]

Thanks for the informative responses, they are greatly appreciated.

One question, I would really have to go through power school again if I went Officer? Are you joking? That seems severely counter productive since my recruiter said they normally have the same amount of training.

[SA82]

One question, I would really have to go through power school again if I went Officer? Are you joking? That seems severely counter productive since my recruiter said they normally have the same amount of training.

Officer power school is different. The training is more in-depth with a lot of theory. This is why nuke officers are required to have taken calculus and calculus based physics.  In enlisted power school, students receive only enough math training in order to understand the basics.

[RadiationSponge]

Ohhhhh disappointing!

Thanks man!

[spekkio]

Thanks for the informative responses, they are greatly appreciated.

One question, I would really have to go through power school again if I went Officer? Are you joking? That seems severely counter productive since my recruiter said they normally have the same amount of training.

No, not joking. In theory, the training pipeline requires officers to have "in-rate knowledge" of all areas, whereas enlisted are only expected to have extensive knowledge in their rating and then a general knowledge of other areas. I say in theory because officers don't do maintenance, so we are never going to be the technical experts that the enlisted guys are. But the training is not the same...ask an electrician a yesterday-today chemistry problem or a mechanic to calculate max power if the RO decides to just start shimming out at X power and you'll see what I mean.

So yea, you do need to go through the training pipeline all over again if you enlist and go officer.

And that's why I said enlisting isn't going to help you in the long run. If you did a full enlisted tour and became very familiar with how your division operates, that's great. But depending on your captain as an officer, he may purposefully assign you a division out of your prior enlisted rating as your first assignment, since it's not doing you any favors to lead a division which you are already familiar with. Even if he doesn't, you will eventually be moved around. The purpose of a JO tour is to get qualified and to learn how all the aspects of the ship operate. If you are given, say, MPA for your entire tour after being a prior mechanic, you're going to be fairly clueless how to function as a Navigator for your DH tour, nor will you be familiar with admin requirements of other divisions if you are an Engineer. Additionally, as an enlisted nuke you will have 0 exposure to ship driving and warfare tactics, which is a very important aspect of an officer's job and really the reason why officers exist.

Another thing to consider is that you have extremely strong grades and a desirable technical degree for the nuclear officer program. Enlisting can only hurt you, not help you, when it comes to officer selection. Once you enlist, the primary factor affecting your selection is going to be your enlisted evaluations, and it's very difficult for a junior guy to get recommendations for an officer program without being qualified. If you aren't picked up out of the training pipeline (which, presumably, you don't want since you are enlisting for the purpose of gaining fleet experience), you had better not even think the words "I want to apply for an officer program" until you have dolphins. When you are enlisted, you are on the Seaman to Master Chief program.

[DDMurray]

....I say in theory because officers don't do maintenance, so we are never going to be the technical experts that the enlisted guys are. But the training is not the same...ask an electrician a yesterday-today chemistry problem or a mechanic to calculate max power if the RO decides to just start shimming out at X power and you'll see what I mean.....

Not sure if this is a good example.  I've known plenty of JOs who couldn't do either of these.

[co60slr]

But the training is not the same...ask an electrician a yesterday-today chemistry problem or a mechanic to calculate max power if the RO decides to just start shimming out at X power and you'll see what I mean.

Along with echoing Derek's words, I'll add that by the time an enlisted nuke becomes a supervisor (EWS/EDPO), both of those questions are fair game.   You're also leaving out EOOW qualifications at prototype where officers find themselves being trained (after their Officer NPS) how to be an EOOW by an enlisted EOOW.  On a Submarine, an enlisted EWS will "sit in the box" while the EOOW tours the plant.   Is there a huge knowledge difference at that point?   How many JO's and DH's do you know that can still work Calc I/II/DiffEQ problems after being away from college/NPS for five years?

When you are enlisted, you are on the Seaman to Master Chief program.

I'm not sure what this means.  Sea Story: I had a young MM3(SU) arrive at my boat.  After a few people actally did their job (e.g., meet/greet, interview, review service record), we found his SAT scores were better than most officers' scores.   He was off to the Naval Academy that next year.   So, yes...if a command doesn't do their job and is only concerned about getting the young MM3 (SU) into coveralls to paint the bilge, then they'll miss an opportunity to retain someone that would otherwise "6 and out" because he/she is bored.

Since I promoted to E-8 and then beyond O-3E, I've done a fairly significant amount of time on "both sides of the fence".  For the people that are 18 and find themselves lacking in the maturity and academic prowess of their MIT college bound friends, I'll say "go Enlisted...do SOMETHING and figure out what you want in life!"   For the people that are 18 and have SAT/ACT scores in the top quartile I'll ask: "why do you need us crusty guys/gals on Nukeworker to help you launch your career?"  For the ET2(SS) that thinks he's smarter than every other person in the world (e.g., "I don't need a college degree...that's all crap") I don't say anything, I just watch Darwin sort him out.

I do not like these "enlisted" versus "officer" threads.   How do you obtain a commission?  How do you obtain an "enlistment contract?".  (Newbies should go Google and read the history of and differences of those paths).  Then, Google the different type of officer specialties:  URL, EDO, LDO, Staff, etc, etc.  I've seen ENG DH's swap over to ED because they hated the "ship driving" part of their job, but loved the nuclear engineering.  I've seen Nuclear enlisted people get a commission and spend 20 years in the Naval Aviation community.   There are NO absolutes with an enlisted versus officer career...other than this:  find something YOU like to do and give it 110%.  If you're not sure, MY best advice (another $0.25 for the pot here) is this:  get out of your rural, hometown deadend and let the Navy help you finish growing up. If you haven't been preparing for an officer program for 12-24 months (or you don't have the high school GPA) than it probably won't happen...right away.  Do what works for you...and then do it better than anyone else.  If you find yourself stagnating, then you're in the wrong place...regardless of your rank and seniority!!!  I'll save the "being promoted to incompetence" rant for another day.  

[DDMurray]

Yeah,
what Co60Slr said!

[spekkio]

Along with echoing Derek's words, I'll add that by the time an enlisted nuke becomes a supervisor (EWS/EDPO), both of those questions are fair game.   You're also leaving out EOOW qualifications at prototype where officers find themselves being trained (after their Officer NPS) how to be an EOOW by an enlisted EOOW.  On a Submarine, an enlisted EWS will "sit in the box" while the EOOW tours the plant.   Is there a huge knowledge difference at that point?   How many JO's and DH's do you know that can still work Calc I/II/DiffEQ problems after being away from college/NPS for five years?

I agree with you, with the exception that your bringing up calc and diffeq problems are irrelevant to understanding how the plant operates while the stuff I mentioned is not. However, senior enlisted watchstations were not in the OP's plan. He specifically said that he planned to enlist for a year or so to become a better officer, and that's what I was rebutting. What you are discussing typically requires at least a second tour of service. And there is a huge knowledge difference -- enlisted EWS typically know more than the JO EOOW's, just by the experience they've had operating the plant out in the spaces. Regardless, none of that changes the fact that the training pipeline is different for officers and enlisted.

Also, doing prototype as a shore duty is typically not the first choice among enlisted nukes, although it tends to be one of very few choices for any that hope to be promoted. So while EOOW quals are a bonus, you're still at prototype, and you can't stand the watch on a submarine at sea, anyway.

The enlisted EOOW qualified chiefs at prototype, when I went, were fairly useless. They stood watch the minimum to maintain proficiency and hid in the chief's office...they even rigged up a screen so no one could see them lounging out.

I'm not sure what this means.

It means that the expectation of an enlisted sailor is to do his job to the best of his ability, and that his training will lead him to a path to get anchors. Guys who show up saying how much they want to be officers when they haven't even proven themselves tend not to be received well. It wasn't meant to be derogatory, it's just the way it is.

I do not like these "enlisted" versus "officer" threads.   How do you obtain a commission?  How do you obtain an "enlistment contract?".  (Newbies should go Google and read the history of and differences of those paths).  Then, Google the different type of officer specialties:  URL, EDO, LDO, Staff, etc, etc.  I've seen ENG DH's swap over to ED because they hated the "ship driving" part of their job, but loved the nuclear engineering.  I've seen Nuclear enlisted people get a commission and spend 20 years in the Naval Aviation community.   There are NO absolutes with an enlisted versus officer career...other than this:  find something YOU like to do and give it 110%.  If you're not sure, MY best advice (another $0.25 for the pot here) is this:  get out of your rural, hometown deadend and let the Navy help you finish growing up. If you haven't been preparing for an officer program for 12-24 months (or you don't have the high school GPA) than it probably won't happen...right away.  Do what works for you...and then do it better than anyone else.  If you find yourself stagnating, then you're in the wrong place...regardless of your rank and seniority!!!  I'll save the "being promoted to incompetence" rant for another day.

Well said.